Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:55 AM - Re: totally non-Pietenpol related (Robert Ray)
2. 03:07 AM - Re: Decathlon flight review (Don Emch)
3. 04:24 AM - Re: M.E.R.F.I. this saturday (Skip Gadd)
4. 04:48 AM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Jack)
5. 04:50 AM - Re: Sport Aviation (Gene & Tammy)
6. 04:53 AM - Flight review (Lawrence Williams)
7. 05:12 AM - excellent Bill Rewey tv story/interview (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
8. 05:42 AM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (Bill Church)
9. 07:54 AM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (helspersew@aol.com)
10. 07:54 AM - Re: Sport Aviation (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
11. 08:17 AM - Re: A better Bill Rewey story (Jim)
12. 08:17 AM - Builders in New Jersey (hwaller)
13. 08:18 AM - Re: Sport Aviation (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
14. 08:18 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (shad bell)
15. 08:44 AM - Off topic, but interesting (shad bell)
16. 08:44 AM - Re: Sport Aviation (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
17. 08:45 AM - Re: Builders in New Jersey (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
18. 09:21 AM - Re: Sport Aviation (K5YAC)
19. 09:48 AM - Re: totally non-Pietenpol related (Bill Church)
20. 09:49 AM - Re: Sport Aviation (Bill Church)
21. 10:33 AM - Re: Sport Aviation (Jack)
22. 10:42 AM - Joe Norris response from EAA (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
23. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
24. 11:30 AM - Re: A better Bill Rewey story (dwilson)
25. 02:21 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (Mike Tunnicliffe)
26. 02:39 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (TOM STINEMETZE)
27. 03:09 PM - Re: Builders in New Jersey (gliderx5@comcast.net)
28. 03:11 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (Mike Tunnicliffe)
29. 03:43 PM - Pat Benatar didn't need no stinkin GPS..... (Oscar Zuniga)
30. 03:43 PM - Fw: EAA SportAir Workshop Alert: RV Assembly Course at Frederick, Maryland (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
31. 03:44 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (Matt Redmond)
32. 04:12 PM - Re: Pat Benatar didn't need no stinkin GPS..... (Dog67@aol.com)
33. 11:24 PM - Re: Sport Aviation (Darrel Jones)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: totally non-Pietenpol related |
I use Sprints evdo I use it mostly faster than dsl land line.
take it any where. 3G is like time sharing with the voice customers
and they come first. If you have 30 people talking on a typical cell
site and it's has only one t1's then you share with them and thats
whats killing you.
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>w
rote:
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Mike,
>
> Thanks for providing CLOSURE for me for my 3G issues, and helping me deal
> with my libidinal inadaquecies, with "Vitamin V," etc. ;)
>
> Re cialis, I have never understood the appeal of a guy and gal getting in
> two separate but adjacent antique clawfoot bathtubs, apparently unplumbed
,
> out on a beach or clifftop. It's not romantic- it's stupid. My
> problem-solving minds screams, "Who heats the water, who keeps it hot, an
d
> what happens next?" Hey, those tubs look narrow, mind you, and very
> uncomfortable for two!!! No wonder they are just holding hands across th
e
> tubs.
>
> On a more serious note, AT&T's network is apparently performing porly, as
> stated. AT&T is spending something like $18B this year to expand its
> wireless networks' capacities. AT&T is an exclusive on the very hot Ipod
,
> as if its wireless network did not have enough traffic already. Ipod use
rs
> multiply like rabbits 9is Viagra involved)?
>
> Moreover, the Ipod users' big files, videos, etc., and extensive holding
> times, as the users do data-- PC type stuff-- on their phones, is simply
> killing those networks. There is not enough bandwidth. So AT&T has to
> create more cells, smaller cells, and create off-net proprietary landline
> networks to carry some of the load, from tower to tower off-net, etc. I
> predict that whatever they do will not be enough, as the 80:20 rule or wo
rse
> applies-- likely 10-15 % of the users account for 80% or more of the usag
e.
> And the apps continually get more visual and data-centric.
>
> Re "3G," generally each generation uses better digital compression to
> squeeze more digital data on the same analog RF bandwidth, but it takes a
> while to move from 2G to 3G to 4G. In part this is because STANDARDS are
> involved, so that all the vendors, components, systems and networks, and
> their network operating systems and operating support systems can
> interoperate. New standards are not straightforward. Vendors who are ah
ead
> try to game the standards in their favor, and those behind try to stall
> developments while they catch up, or just trip up their competitors. The
> network providers try to make sure it all really works, smoking out the
> vaporware, and make sure they can afford and manage the changes. All the
> players in the standards game lie worse than politicians, too.
>
> I did not mean for this to get too serious. I am afraid that my post has
> used so much bandwidth that I may have DISENFRANCHISED someone who wished
to
> talk about gussets or latex. Was that latex paint... or did it relate to
> safe use of cialis?
>
> Tim in central TX
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
> Sent: Sep 10, 2009 2:32 PM
> To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: totally non-Pietenpol related
>
>
> Could any of you bright gentlemen tell me what the heck a 3G network is a
nd
> what=92s so
> special about it.
>
> I=92m about as sick of hearing 3G all the time as I am of seeing Viagra a
nd
> Cialis commercials
> and then second only to the overuse of the word disenfranchised when vote
rs
> couldn=92t figure
> out what box to punch on ballots in Florida.
>
> Oh there is one more word that I despise. Closure.
>
> Okay=97thank you, I feel much better now.
>
> Mike C.
>
> do not archive
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Decathlon flight review |
Hey Mike,
No I had Forrest Barber with a borrowed plane.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262554#262554
Message 3
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| Subject: | M.E.R.F.I. this saturday |
Shad, Can't make it to MERFI this year, maybe next year. Got my reservation for
Lee Bottom, so if I can't fly because of weather I can drive.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: 9/10/2009 11:23:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: M.E.R.F.I. this saturday
Mike C., Don E. Skipp G. Frank P. and all other Ohio area piets, are any of you
planning on going to the merfi fly-in at Grimes Field this weekend? I plan on
flying over at 9-10am sat morning. It would be fun to fly 2-3 piets in formation
over to Grimes. If anyone is interested let me know by friday.
Shad
Message 4
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| Subject: | Paint in place of varnish |
I was amazed at the effects of moisture content recently. For my wings the
wood had been cut, planed, and then allowed to dry for about a year. Wings
were built, then had 3 coats of varnish applied. Fitting were attached and
torqued to the proper specs. The fist wing was hung in the "rafters" for
storage. This spring I was surprised to find most fittings were very loose
from continued shrinking. I will check them once again this fall before
covering.
Jack
www.textors.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Tunnicliffe
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
Hi, one of the reasons for sealing the timber is to stabilize it from rapid
moisture changes, another is to reduce the risk from insect attack. Regards
MikeT.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael <mailto:speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> Perez
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
My thoughts were these:
Many wood things are painted and left outside directly exposed to sun, wind,
rain, snow, bird crap, you name it. The wood holds up for years.
Our wood structures are mostly covered with fabric and hangared and seldom
see constant sun, rain, snow, etc.
With today's latest paints, I would imagine there is a good exterior
sprayable/brush on paint that would seal and protect wood as though it was
going to be used on an outside structure. (my next step in investigation.)
Most of the varnish I have seen APPLIED to aircraft has been put on so thick
that I would think thinner paint would not weigh more at all.
I like to pay attention to details...having a painted structure ...even if
you only see it through inspection holes...was a cool thought to me.
It is easier to tell with paint where you missed while applying it.
HOWEVER, I am still on the fence on this and more then likely will go back
to varnish...stay tuned.
Thanks crew.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
05:50:00
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Russell,
I think what your missing in Dick's comment is that the Pietenpol held
the place of honor durning the 2009 OSH and Sport Aviation did not print
one word about it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Ray
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation
If you go to EAA web site and search on Pietenpols you'll find a bunch
and I do mean a bunch of sport aviators and experimenters with great
articles on Pietenpols, you can order these if they have them in
stock.
I think the first one was in the fifty's. Also Time magazine did an
article
in 1995 on the Pietenpol or was 1996 oh well.
Russell
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Dick N. <horzpool@goldengate.net>
wrote:
I received my copy of Sport Aviation today. I scanned it closely,
but didn't read every article. There wasn't one mention or pic of the
Piet although there was a recap of OSH. I was disappointed after the
build up from EAA and I'll chose to say no more on that.
Dick N.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/10/09 18:12:00
Message 6
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For my last BFR, I shopped around until I found a CFI that could be convinc
ed that his weight in my Piet would put it over gross. The solution was as
hoped; he would observe from the ground. We pre-briefed a routine (nordo) a
nd off I went Of course I kept the Piet between his position on the ground
and the sun so-I basically flew back and forth for about 20 minutes and c
alled it complete. After landing he signed me off and took my money. Sure h
ope that guy lives a long time!!=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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| Subject: | excellent Bill Rewey tv story/interview |
Thank you for finding and posting that Ryan. Bill is a real gentleman and
obviously kept his
cool during one of the most dreaded times to have an engine failure. We'
re fortunate to have
Bill as one of our Pietenpol veterans.
Mike C.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans.
On another point...
I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that
catches fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my
epoxy stands up to this heat".
BC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Paint in place of varnish |
Wow Jack, I better check all of mine. My wing has been done since '04 and
I have not checked any of them. Thanks!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 6:13 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
I was amazed at the effects of moisture content recently.=C2- For my win
gs the wood had been cut, planed, and then allowed to dry for about a year
.=C2- Wings were built, then had 3 coats of varnish applied.=C2- Fitti
ng were attached and torqued to the proper specs.=C2- The fist wing was
hung in the =9Crafters=9D for storage.=C2- This spring I wa
s surprised to find most fittings were very loose from continued shrinking
.=C2- I will check them once again this fall before covering.
Jack
www.textors.com
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Tunnicliffe
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
=C2-
Hi, one of the reasons for sealing the timber is to stabilize it from rapi
d moisture changes, another is to reduce the risk from insect attack. Rega
rds MikeT.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish
0
My thoughts were these:
=C2-
Many wood things are painted and left outside directly exposed to sun, win
d, rain, snow, bird crap, you name it. The wood holds up for years.
=C2-
Our wood structures are mostly covered with fabric and hangared and seldom
see constant sun, rain, snow, etc.
=C2-
With today's latest paints, I would imagine there is a good exterior spray
able/brush on paint that would seal and protect wood as though it was goin
g to be used on an outside structure. (my next step in investigation.)
=C2-
Most of the varnish I have seen APPLIED to aircraft has been put on so thi
ck that I would think thinner paint would not weigh more at all.
=C2-
I like to pay attention to details...having a painted structure ...even if
you only see it through inspection holes...was a cool thought to me.
=C2-
It is easier to tell with paint where you missed while applying it.
=C2-
HOWEVER, I am still on the fence on this and more then likely will go back
to varnish...stay tuned.
=C2-
Thanks crew.
=C2-
=C2-
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=C2-
=C2-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2-
13.87/2356 - Release Date: 09/11/09 05:50:00
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
I really looked hard in anticipation that the Pietenpol would be celebrated
as a premier guest to the EAA event. I was really disappointed in the no
mention, honorable and not. I think the EAA could have and should have
included the Piets in a feature. RVs are nice and with the exception of the
paint schemes one is like another. Really not a lot of builder creativity
there.
I am not doubting the amount of reading and working or discounting the RV
group, however I did run across another builder some time ago as he was
looking at my project. I asked what he was building, he replied " an RV,
isn't everybody"?
Short of really interesting paint jobs there is little room for the
builders personality and craft to come out. The only difference between the RV
and a 172 is the size of the box it comes in
I like both airplanes, and celebrated in their own right however you'll
never get a Box O Pietenpol nor will you find an 80 year old 172 or an RV.
I received the solicitation survey from the EAA and in the section that
asked for comments I kinda let my thoughts be known about getting too far
from the roots of the organization and becoming too much like an AOPA clone.
Just my thoughts and honest opinion.
Giving fairness to the commentary I do have to say I was really pleased
when Dicks Piet made the front cover.
John
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: A better Bill Rewey story |
Thanks for sending this article Ryan.
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
On Sep 10, 2009, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
All,
I ran across a news story from Channel 3000, which is apparently a southern WI
news website. Anywho, they had a pretty decent story about Bill's incident. Bill's
interviewd too.:
http://www.channel3000.com/news/20561747/detail.html
Message 12
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| Subject: | Builders in New Jersey |
Are there any Air Camper builders in NJ or surrounding states?
I'd like to come and see your project.
Please contact Hugh, hwaller@optonline.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262576#262576
Message 13
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Dick was right-they did not mention squat about the 80th Anniversary Gather
ing of Pietenpols that Bill Rewey, Greg Cardinal,
and Doc Mosher worked so diligently to make happen.
All this hype I got from Joe Norris at EAA about "we want as many Pietenpol
s in the Showcase Homebuilt Review as possible"
was also a bunch of crap. They cut Jack Phillips out and a bunch of other
homebuilts because one hand at EAA doesn't know what
the other hand is doing-that became extremely evident when I tried to coord
inate the Piet pilots with Joe Norris at EAA who
handed me off to this poor volunteer who is in charge of listing the guys/g
als to fly in that little 12 minute window and walked
away saying "okay-this guy will take care of you". Thanks a lot. The
y have their heads up their butt holes at EAA when the
new Piper Jet and Auger-In Cessna SpinMaster Skycatcher and other factory b
uilt airplanes get TOP BILLING and homebuilts
get a measly 12 minute window to do a little fly-by twice during a SEVEN DA
Y EVENT. Oh no-let's show you the latest Light
Sport Airplanes that cost upwards of $200,000 !!!!!!!!! Oh yeah-that's af
fordable. (for Bill Gates or Harrison Ford)
Am I mistaken or wasn't EAA founded and flourished by HOMEBUILT AIRPLANES,
no ? We've taken a huge backseat to the glitz
and glamour of glass panels and factory built airplanes. Mooneys to Osh
kosh and Bonanza's to Oshkosh MASS FLY in's got WAYYYY
more attention than Pietenpols got---look at the daily photos and videos po
sted at EAA.org and you'll see all the Paris Air Show
type hype that has taken over the mindset of EAA.
With all that venting out of my system I want to emphasize that I LOVE OSHK
OSH--- it is the best air show in the country and perhaps
the world but I have a beef with homebuilts being relegated to lowest class
status.
Lastly I do want to thank EAA for giving us PRIMO PARKING spots---- a fanta
stic parking area right by the main brown gate with the
gorgeous display of flowers and new park benches to sit on--- and I want to
thank EAA for helping us celebrate our event by giving
every showplane participant the 2009 EAA patch which featured an embroidere
d Pietenpol Air Camper (a Continental powered one
by the way:) ) with the words Pietenpol Air Camper 80th Anniversary on it.
Maybe we'll get a token recognition in Sport Aviation one EAA kisses the a
sses of all the big corporate sponsors that they cow tow to
anymore.
And to be really fair, all of the VAST improvements that EAA has done this
past year to the grounds, the increased shade, grassy areas
and reduced go-kart, golf-cart, and "important persons driving vehicles all
over the place" probably wouldn't have been possible without
the big buck sponsors like Ford, ACS, and such so in that regard I can't be
grudge them because we do benefit from some of those
sponsorships.
Bottom line-I just wish EAA would focus a little more on what made them gre
at: affordable homebuilt airplanes that are economical
to build, maintain, and fly for the common working person.
Mike C.
Message 14
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I believe Dad's aileron hinges are 2" as well, however I believe his are th
e rolled type, not extruded.- I know the extruded are the recomended type
, but the only time I saw them unroll was when I was in a full power dive a
t 400mph in a flour bombing contest...ha ha ha.- Either one will work on
a piet, just keep them streight when you drill the screw holes or they will
bind up when moved.
-
Sometimes even with speed, Less is more. Less speed, less money, more longe
vity,
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Off topic, but interesting |
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang?- I
t was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970.- It
had a big turboprop longer wings etc etc.- Never was bought by the air fo
rce so it is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer.- 4 were built and one j
ust happens to be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton.- Google
it for some photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't
know" information.
-
Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at ou
r EAA meeting the other night.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Mike,
Don't hold back tell us what you really think. Maybe you should go to the
assertiveness training class also. No sense letting the message get lost by
being timid.
John
Do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Builders in New Jersey |
I am in Lancaster county PA which is 2 hours and 10 from the center of NJ 5
miles north of LNS if you're interested
John
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
I found the same thing... and I too looked closely. There might have been a wing
in the frame when thy shot a pic of the archway, but nothing more. Bummer.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | totally non-Pietenpol related |
Forget about 3G and 4G.
Maybe what you need is 1P.
check this out:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94606-Carrier-Pigeon-Beats-Int
ernet-in-South-Africa
Sometimes the old-fashioned things are better than the new stuff - which
actually makes this Pietenpol related, in a roundabout sort of way.
Bill C.
<http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94606-Carrier-Pigeon-Beats-In
ternet-in-South-Africa>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The "E"
in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stands for
EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified, factory-built
(although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is a factory-built
plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus definitely seems to be on
factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and that doesn't seem right, given
the name and mandate of the organization. I realize that the vast majority
of aviation enthusiasts out there likely have no interest in or desire to build
(or assemble) their own plane, and would much rather buy (or just look at)
something shiny and "off the shelf" - and as a business, the EAA needs to cater
to their customers, but honestly, the virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and
whatever else was parked up at the North end just puts me to sleep. Having said
that, this year was my first visit to Oshkosh, and I did enjoy myself. There
was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected to homebuilts that I DID find
interesting and entertaining, and I did not manage to see everything I wanted
to in the three days I was there, so it ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is
definitely the only place in the world where you would get to see all that they
have to offer - incredible daily airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds
of Vintage and Warbird aircraft, in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique
and rare planes that Oshkosh can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster
bomber... to name a few). Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do
a fantastic job of co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge
on one small place for only one week of the year.
It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in the shuffle.
It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to play the
role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an article about
the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because they're working on
a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed a bit more time to give
it the attention it deserves.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
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Hey Mike why don't you tell us how you really feel. :-) I agree in many
respects but also realize who's paying the ad rates for the mag. I would
guess future articles will reflect on the anniversary and I also remember
the great article and cover on Dick's bird. Also it's great to have a
fellow builder on the Board. Thank goodness I took my blood pressure pill
this AM. I need it with the falling of our Constitution and Nation. Hope
everyone kept those in mind this morning that perished in 911.
Take care!
Jack
www.textors.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation
Dick was right-they did not mention squat about the 80th Anniversary
Gathering of Pietenpols that Bill Rewey, Greg Cardinal,
and Doc Mosher worked so diligently to make happen.
All this hype I got from Joe Norris at EAA about "we want as many Pietenpols
in the Showcase Homebuilt Review as possible"
was also a bunch of crap. They cut Jack Phillips out and a bunch of other
homebuilts because one hand at EAA doesn't know what
the other hand is doing-that became extremely evident when I tried to
coordinate the Piet pilots with Joe Norris at EAA who
handed me off to this poor volunteer who is in charge of listing the
guys/gals to fly in that little 12 minute window and walked
away saying "okay-this guy will take care of you". Thanks a lot. They
have their heads up their butt holes at EAA when the
new Piper Jet and Auger-In Cessna SpinMaster Skycatcher and other factory
built airplanes get TOP BILLING and homebuilts
get a measly 12 minute window to do a little fly-by twice during a SEVEN DAY
EVENT. Oh no-let's show you the latest Light
Sport Airplanes that cost upwards of $200,000 !!!!!!!!! Oh yeah-that's
affordable. (for Bill Gates or Harrison Ford)
Am I mistaken or wasn't EAA founded and flourished by HOMEBUILT AIRPLANES,
no ? We've taken a huge backseat to the glitz
and glamour of glass panels and factory built airplanes. Mooneys to
Oshkosh and Bonanza's to Oshkosh MASS FLY in's got WAYYYY
more attention than Pietenpols got---look at the daily photos and videos
posted at EAA.org and you'll see all the Paris Air Show
type hype that has taken over the mindset of EAA.
With all that venting out of my system I want to emphasize that I LOVE
OSHKOSH--- it is the best air show in the country and perhaps
the world but I have a beef with homebuilts being relegated to lowest class
status.
Lastly I do want to thank EAA for giving us PRIMO PARKING spots---- a
fantastic parking area right by the main brown gate with the
gorgeous display of flowers and new park benches to sit on--- and I want to
thank EAA for helping us celebrate our event by giving
every showplane participant the 2009 EAA patch which featured an embroidered
Pietenpol Air Camper (a Continental powered one
by the way:-) ) with the words Pietenpol Air Camper 80th Anniversary on it.
Maybe we'll get a token recognition in Sport Aviation one EAA kisses the
asses of all the big corporate sponsors that they cow tow to
anymore.
And to be really fair, all of the VAST improvements that EAA has done this
past year to the grounds, the increased shade, grassy areas
and reduced go-kart, golf-cart, and "important persons driving vehicles all
over the place" probably wouldn't have been possible without
the big buck sponsors like Ford, ACS, and such so in that regard I can't
begrudge them because we do benefit from some of those
sponsorships.
Bottom line-I just wish EAA would focus a little more on what made them
great: affordable homebuilt airplanes that are economical
to build, maintain, and fly for the common working person.
Mike C.
05:50:00
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| Subject: | Joe Norris response from EAA |
I ended up forwarding my post about EAA to Joe Norris who did do much to he
lp with our gathering at EAA but in going back and forth will Joe off-list
we discussed what I thought was going to be a "Pietenpol Homebuilt Review"
only or perhaps that we would be highlighted in the event but that was not
the case and many other homebuilders ready to fly (with other planes besid
es Pietenpols) were scratched from the homebuilt review.
Joe's response below.
I appreciate his honesty in his responses and sounds like it was just a sna
fu-but one that he's going to make sure doesn't happen again.
Mike,
I appreciate your comments. Garry and Janet Kingma do a great job on the H
omebuilt Review. What happened with the Wednesday Homebuilt Review this ye
ar was not their fault. They were told different things by different peopl
e and they did the best they could. My job for the future is to make sure
such things don't happen again. I'm working on that already.
The fact that people were allowed to taxi into position and then were told
they would not be allowed to fly is TOTALLY unacceptable, and I already mad
e that point clear to the people responsible. Hopefully that point will be
remembered in the future. (I'll work to see that it is.) You are not bei
ng "nit-picky" at all in being upset about this. I was upset too, and I kn
ow this issue gave EAA a huge black eye. We deserved it in this case.
Again, I appreciate your comments and welcome your input at any time. It's
VERY important that we get this feedback from the membership. Keep it com
ing!
Thanks!
Joe
Joe Norris
EAA 113615 Lifetime
Homebuilders Community Manager
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Good post Bill and to add to that I'm always going to attend Oshkosh- it is the
BEST thing general aviation has going and you won't see what you see there anywhere
else so with the downside there is a HUGE UPSIDE to EAA and what they offer
both at the show and online-- a wealth of info and diversity which is fantastic
because as they say, there is something for everyone.
I will never be one of those negative curmudgeons who says "I'm never going to
renew my membership in EAA or go there again" Great ! We don't need people
like that anyway since they just suck the life out of those around them with
negativism. Stay home--we'll have fun going to Oshkosh again and again when
able !
I think guys like Joe Norris are on the right track being a cog in the gears at
EAA but he (I think) fights an uphill battle trying to balance the corporate
nature of the event and the little guy homebuilding interests.
Mike C.
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| Subject: | Re: A better Bill Rewey story |
This is a great story! Can't think of anyone else that I would ever want to give
my own kids a young eagles ride in any type of an airplane. When the unexpected
happens you rely on your experience, and Bill has plenty.
DW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262611#262611
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Having been in a wood and fabric aircraft that has caught fire in the
air, I have to say the epoxy did hold up well.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:40 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans.
On another point...
I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that
catches fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my
epoxy stands up to this heat".
BC
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Mike:
That sounds like a story we would all need to hear. It might save
somebody some heartache someday.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz> 9/11/2009 4:20 PM >>>
Having been in a wood and fabric aircraft that has caught fire in the air,
I have to say the epoxy did hold up well.
regards Mike T
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Builders in New Jersey |
I'm in State College, PA. http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "hwaller" <hwaller@optonline.net>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:16:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Builders in New Jersey
Are there any Air Camper builders in NJ or surrounding states?
I'd like to come and see your project.
Please contact Hugh, hwaller@optonline.net
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Hi Tom, the incident was not as dramatic as it could have been. The
muffler was made from thin stainless which cracked on takeoff and the
exhaust proceeded to burn the ply of the cockpit foor, adjacent to the
fuel drain. The fire burnt through a layer of paint and lightweight
fibreglass cloth then through one ply of 3mm plywood in a matter of
seconds. When throttled back the burning appeared to stop, I completed a
circut and landed. Our intended route was along a rather inhospitable
stretch of coastline and had the fire occured later the outcome would
have been very different. The epoxy in the fibreglass burnt but the
epoxy bonding the ply was still in good condition, I guess the ply
limited the heat transfered through. Changes made after this incident:
muffler made of heavier and less brittle grade of stainless, supported
further away from fuse and flexibly mounted, metal sheilds on floor. The
story does not stop there as the new muffler had a tail pipe that was
horizontal with the bottom of the fuse, and on the next flight I felt a
little off colour, I then saw the CO indicator was black. Time to get
back on the deck and modify the exhaust yet again. I now do thorough
checks after making any changes as the unexpected can and does happen.
The aircraft in question was an enclosed cockpit Jodel not a Pietenpol.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Mike:
That sounds like a story we would all need to hear. It might save
somebody some heartache someday.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz> 9/11/2009 4:20 PM >>>
Having been in a wood and fabric aircraft that has caught fire in the
air, I have to say the epoxy did hold up well.
regards Mike T
Message 29
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| Subject: | Pat Benatar didn't need no stinkin GPS..... |
Apparently she didn't need no stinkin' hands on the
stinkin' controls, either.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 30
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| Subject: | Fwd: EAA SportAir Workshop Alert: RV Assembly Course at |
Frederick, Maryland
Now hers a timely topic, looks like box O airplane sponsorship. I guess
there is not enough sponsorship dollars available for a build a Pietenpol
seminar series.
John
____________________________________
From: sportair@eaa.org
Sent: 9/11/2009 4:35:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: EAA SportAir Workshop Alert: RV Assembly Course at Frederick,
Maryland
Dear EAA Member:
EAA SportAir Workshops returns to Frederick, Maryland for a two-day Van's
Aircraft RV Assembly course the weekend of October 24-25, 2009. EAA Chapt
er
524 will host the seminar at its Aviation Education center located at the
Frederick Municipal Airport. There is still space available for aspiring
RV
homebuilders.
This pioneering RV course is an intensive weekend seminar. "Hands-on"
practice provides the skills, experience, and confidence required to asse
mble
your airplane. In addition, we'll discuss Federal Aviation Regulations
pertaining to amateur-built aircraft; required tools and workshop essenti
als;
engine and propeller selection; flight-testing; and more. This course wil
l
get you well on your way to successfully completing your RV project!
The course is limited to 16 students and there is currently space
available, so sign up today! EAA members receive a special discount price
of $319,
which includes all materials and equipment.
As a special incentive, and in support of the workshop program, Van's
Aircraft offers a special $50 discount on an aircraft kit to all workshop
attendees.
See the courses in action on the _EAA Video Player_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398715&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.eaa.org/video/
eaa.html?videoId=1539906075) ._
Find out the details_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398716&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.sportair.com/workshops/index.html) on all
the courses.
View the complete _SportAir Schedule_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398717&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.sportair.com/schedule.html)
.
If you are interested in registering for this class, or would like more
information, please call 800-967-5746 or visit _www.sportair.com_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398718&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.spor
tair.com) for additional details.
Best Regards,
EAA SportAir Workshops
Oshkosh, Wisconsin
_www.sportair.com_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398719&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.sportair.com)
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(mailto:sportair@eaa.org) .
All content, logos and pictures are the property of EAA, Inc. - Copyright
=A9 2009
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Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Good reason to use intumescent paint on the firewall or anywhere else fire
is a possibility.
http://www.contegointernational.com/
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz>wrote:
> Hi Tom, the incident was not as dramatic as it could have been. The
> muffler was made from thin stainless which cracked on takeoff and the
> exhaust proceeded to burn the ply of the cockpit foor, adjacent to the fuel
> drain. The fire burnt through a layer of paint and lightweight fibreglass
> cloth then through one ply of 3mm plywood in a matter of seconds. When
> throttled back the burning appeared to stop, I completed a circut and
> landed. Our intended route was along a rather inhospitable stretch of
> coastline and had the fire occured later the outcome would have been very
> different. The epoxy in the fibreglass burnt but the epoxy bonding the ply
> was still in good condition, I guess the ply limited the heat transfered
> through. Changes made after this incident: muffler made of heavier and less
> brittle grade of stainless, supported further away from fuse and flexibly
> mounted, metal sheilds on floor. The story does not stop there as the new
> muffler had a tail pipe that was horizontal with the bottom of the fuse, and
> on the next flight I felt a little off colour, I then saw the CO indicator
> was black. Time to get back on the deck and modify the exhaust yet again. I
> now do thorough checks after making any changes as the unexpected can and
> does happen. The aircraft in question was an enclosed cockpit Jodel not a
> Pietenpol.
> regards Mike T.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
>
> *Mike:*
> **
> *That sounds like a story we would all need to hear. It might save
> somebody some heartache someday.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *McPherson, KS.*
>
>
> >>> Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz> 9/11/2009 4:20 PM >>>
> Having been in a wood and fabric aircraft that has caught fire in the air,
> I have to say the epoxy did hold up well.
> regards Mike T
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Pat Benatar didn't need no stinkin GPS..... |
Ya.. but the T-6 was deadly in a dogfight.. right? <wink>
In a message dated 9/11/2009 4:43:52 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Apparently she didn't need no stinkin' hands on the
stinkin' controls, either.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Don't hold back tell us what you really think. Maybe you should go to
> the assertiveness training class also. No sense letting the message
> get lost by being timid.
>
> John
>
>
> Do not archive
> *
> *
Aw, Mike, don't sugar coat it. Tell it like it really is.
I was also very disappointed that the Pietenpols didn't get a feature
article for the 80th anniversary. They can make it up in the next issue
only if they have the feature article AND also put a Pietenpol on the
front cover again.
Darrel
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