Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:23 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges (steven sadler)
2. 08:42 AM - Piet builders' workshop (Oscar Zuniga)
3. 09:31 AM - Windshields (skellytown flyer)
4. 09:36 AM - Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES (Craig Steffen)
5. 09:43 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Gary Boothe)
6. 10:16 AM - Re: Windshields (Jim Markle)
7. 11:16 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (amsafetyc@aol.com)
8. 12:19 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
9. 12:24 PM - Re: Windshields (Gary Boothe)
10. 12:54 PM - Re: Sport Aviation (Robert Ray)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (airlion)
12. 01:35 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (H RULE)
13. 01:54 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (amsafetyc@aol.com)
14. 03:34 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Michael McGowan)
15. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation (Jack Phillips)
16. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation (amsafetyc@aol.com)
17. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation (Lagowski Morrow)
18. 06:42 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Dick N.)
19. 06:48 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (regchief)
20. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Piet builders' workshop (Jack Phillips)
21. 07:12 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Jim)
22. 08:41 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Mike Whaley)
23. 09:42 PM - Re: Sport Aviation (Mike Whaley)
24. 09:42 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Robert Ray)
25. 11:13 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation (Robert Ray)
26. 11:13 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Mike Tunnicliffe)
27. 11:13 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (Robert Ray)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Hinges |
Shad,
Thanks for the info. It sure is nice to get feedback from the community of
builders.
I have my 2" hinges on order now.
Again, Thanks
Steve
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:55 AM, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I believe Dad's aileron hinges are 2" as well, however I believe his are
> the rolled type, not extruded. I know the extruded are the recomended type,
> but the only time I saw them unroll was when I was in a full power dive at
> 400mph in a flour bombing contest...ha ha ha. Either one will work on a
> piet, just keep them streight when you drill the screw holes or they will
> bind up when moved.
>
> Sometimes even with speed, Less is more. Less speed, less money, more
> longevity,
>
> Shad
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Piet builders' workshop |
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 3
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Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a couple
weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the windshields
done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved
shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I have
seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones to
even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in flying
behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turbulence
yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appreciate
some advice. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
Message 4
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| Subject: | Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES |
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
> Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
> couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
> for things like the Zenith and RV.
The SportAir workshops cover some other of the basic building
techniques. They have one for composite, and another for fabric
covering, in addition to sheet metal.
>Let's suppose
> someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
> and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
> behind it. Would people come to such an event?
If it was in the middle third of the country, I would.
>I doubt that the Air
> Camper interest would be high enough for more than
> one such event in any given year, and it would
> probably be held in Florida or California.
Well, Florida's doable for me. California means flying, so I'd have
to decide if it's worth the extra hundreds of dollars to go to one
there.
> I'm not offering to arrange such an event;
Ah...there's the issue. To make something like this fly, someone has
to put shoulder to the wheel and make it happen. Beyond that, someone
else has to make the commitment to deliver building materials.
Someone else again has to agree to teach it and come up with enough
exercises.
> I'm just
> wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
> as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
I for one would like to do a weekend's worth of building a wing rib or
two before putting money down on plans for Pietenpol or some such. If
one were offered, say, in the next year and a half, I'd definitely be
interested.
My take:
I think that a Pietenpol-specific workship is a mistake. What people
really want to do is spend a weekend learning the techniques to build
a wood airplane, and to see if they like it. So cutting wood into
capstrips and the like, building a rib, varnishing, sanding, and
whatever else it is that you do. Any wood airplanes are going to have
all those same steps, so there's no reason to specialize the workshop.
I think the best chance to make something like this happen is as
follows. Sportair is headquartered in Oshkosh, Wisonsin. At the
Oshkosh location and no other, they have the "Discover Aircraft
Building" course.
http://www.sportair.com/workshops/Discover Aircraft Building.html
That course is four-courses in one over a weekend. They do half a day
each on wood construction, fabric covering, sheet metal and composite.
I actually called SportAir this last week asking about a wood
construction course, and they told me that they didn't do it any more
for lack of interest. It might be worth asking them how many people
would need to sign up for them to offer the course again. They might
be willing to do a one-off run of the course.
SportAir does their workshops at Oshkosh in January; in 2010 it's
going to be January 30 and 31. The question then, is, how many folks
on this list would sign up to take that course if they offered it. If
Sportair offered the wood construction course this coming January 30
and 31, at the same time as the other SportAir workshops, for, say,
$250, would anyone on this list take it?
I'm sort of interested in Pietenpols, and wood building in general. I
would definitely take it.
Craig Steffen
southeast Kentucky
Message 5
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| Subject: | Piet builders' workshop |
Oscar,
Not that it's not a good idea, but I probably would not attend. We (N.
California Pietenpol builders) are attacking from a different battle plan:
We have so far gathered a loose list of about 12-14 builders, owners and
interested individuals, who are all gathering for the first time next week
on September 19. The meeting will be at a centrally located builder's house,
Mike Weaver, where we will spend an inordinate amount of time
"strategorizing" about how we will complete a large squadron of Pietenpols
so that we can attack and over-run Brodhead. It's a complex battle plan,
requiring individual effort, group co-ordination, and determination to make
that long flight.
I know you have a number of builders and owners in Texas, and could
undoubtedly do something similar. We might consider joining forces, but we
don't have a cool battle cry like, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!", but we might come
up with something next weekend, like.... "SURF'S UP, DUDE!"
Anyhow, like MC says, "I digress." The main thing is that it has been an
enormous boost to me to have local builders who are friends and are good
sources of info and assistance. This List is obviously that way, too, but
there is nothing like face-to-face camaraderie. And, as you say, we are
certainly individualists.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
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One of the best ideas I've seen is what Larry Prange up in NW Washington State
did....
He cut several different size windshield patterns out of some kind of fairly stiff
posterboard. He then started his Model A engine and sat inside the plane.
While he was sitting there he held up the windshield patterns, tilted them,
moved them around, etc, until he found a size and angle that gave him what he
wanted for wind deflection.
That does mean waiting until the engine is running but...why not? The windshield
doesn't have to be done until the very end unless you want it sooner.
That just seemed like a pretty neat idea to me....
Jim in NE Oklahoma
-----Original Message-----
>From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
>
>
>Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a couple
weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the windshields
done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved
shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I have
seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones
to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in flying
behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turbulence
yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appreciate
some advice. Raymond
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
Oscar
There are 3 groups of people in this
People that have piets
People building piets
People interested in building
Why go east and west
Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can attend and no one
is required cross country
Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin by or through chicago by car or air
There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no stinkin Box O
Airplane factory guy more like component guys are better wicks, ac spruce craftsman,
roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henrob. Guys that stand to make
a buck from piet builders and see if they will lend or send demo guys, instructors
and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys.
I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee. Naturally part
of the program will have to point towards intellectual issues like understanding
the prints, making inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a national
network of in process builders in the area to help out
Just some thoughts
Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and hombuilders
sites will provide access to the larger market that do no know about this
board. I believe the market is much larger than we really know.
How's that for ideas and comment?
John
------Original Message------
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
Oscar, How about holding one in the Grand Republic of Texas? Centralized and good
weather. Heck their is an airport near SA that would be great.
OR an alternative to a national meeting is what the Bonanza people do (I know A
spam can but a nice spam can) and that is to plan events in different regions.
OR tie in with an EAA group and host an event that is focused on Pietenpol building
skills that different homebuilders can attend.
Blue Skies,
Steve "The Good Idea Faery" D.
Yes, I own a 1948 Beech Bonanza, It came as a kit, (that you disassembled, fixed
and made parts and then reassembled.)
8T8 and working in Austin.
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
>
> Oscar
>
> There are 3 groups of people in this
>
> People that have piets
> People building piets
> People interested in building
>
> Why go east and west
>
> Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can
> attend and no one is required cross country
>
> Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin by or through chicago
> by car or air
>
> There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no
> stinkin Box O Airplane factory guy more like component guys are
> better wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller
> electric, henrob. Guys that stand to make a buck from piet
> builders and see if they will lend or send demo guys, instructors
> and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys.
>
> I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee.
> Naturally part of the program will have to point towards
> intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making
> inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a national network
> of in process builders in the area to help out
>
> Just some thoughts
>
> Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA,
> POA and hombuilders sites will provide access to the larger market
> that do no know about this board. I believe the market is much
> larger than we really know.
>
> How's that for ideas and comment?
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Oscar Zuniga
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol builders Board
> ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
> Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
>
>
>
> Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
> Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
> couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
> for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
> someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
> and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
> behind it. Would people come to such an event?
>
> The big builders' workshops have both east and west
> coast venues due to the high interest in some of
> the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
> Camper interest would be high enough for more than
> one such event in any given year, and it would
> probably be held in Florida or California.
>
> I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
> wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
> as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
> My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
> personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
> since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
> group setting would not really interest too many of
> the type of people who want to build Piets.
>
> Comments?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Raymond,
Sounds to me a lot like picking a woman...
But, Jim may have just posted the end-all, be-all post on the matter!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
One of the best ideas I've seen is what Larry Prange up in NW Washington
State did....
He cut several different size windshield patterns out of some kind of fairly
stiff posterboard. He then started his Model A engine and sat inside the
plane. While he was sitting there he held up the windshield patterns,
tilted them, moved them around, etc, until he found a size and angle that
gave him what he wanted for wind deflection.
That does mean waiting until the engine is running but...why not? The
windshield doesn't have to be done until the very end unless you want it
sooner.
That just seemed like a pretty neat idea to me....
Jim in NE Oklahoma
-----Original Message-----
>From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
>
>
>Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a
couple weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the
windshields done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a
single curved shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast
Piet site I have seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide
almost vertical ones to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that
have experience in flying behind them can give me your take on what works
best to give the least turbulence yet minimal drag. they probably don't go
well together but anyway-I'd appreciate some advice. Raymond
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Oh I see well they are going to hear from me if they want my 50 dollars
they'll have to do better than that!
Russell
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Darrel Jones <wd6bor@vom.com> wrote:
>
> AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>> Don't hold back tell us what you really think. Maybe you should go to the
>> assertiveness training class also. No sense letting the message get lost by
>> being timid. John
>> Do not archive
>> *
>> *
>>
> Aw, Mike, don't sugar coat it. Tell it like it really is.
>
> I was also very disappointed that the Pietenpols didn't get a feature
> article for the 80th anniversary. They can make it up in the next issue only
> if they have the feature article AND also put a Pietenpol on the front cover
> again.
>
> Darrel
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
Now if we can just get some of those northern piets to come south to georgia or
texas we could have some great fun. I have been to C37 3 times and it is great
and they do a wonderful job. I suggest Carrolton, Ga. because the have a great
facility. That is where the Big Piet buillders are . I am just south of there
in Lagrange, and besides me there are two others building. How about it pieters?
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. PS I am getting tired
of trying to read some of the listings. Is that what they call texting? Or
do some of the listers are just trying to be funny? I don't understand half of
it since I am kind of slow. Cheers, Gardiner Mason. "GEORGIA ON MY MIND"
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:33:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar,
Not that it's not a good idea, but I probably would not attend. We (N.
California Pietenpol builders) are attacking from a different battle plan:
We have so far gathered a loose list of about 12-14 builders, owners and
interested individuals, who are all gathering for the first time next week
on September 19. The meeting will be at a centrally located builder's house,
Mike Weaver, where we will spend an inordinate amount of time
"strategorizing" about how we will complete a large squadron of Pietenpols
so that we can attack and over-run Brodhead. It's a complex battle plan,
requiring individual effort, group co-ordination, and determination to make
that long flight.
I know you have a number of builders and owners in Texas, and could
undoubtedly do something similar. We might consider joining forces, but we
don't have a cool battle cry like, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!", but we might come
up with something next weekend, like.... "SURF'S UP, DUDE!"
Anyhow, like MC says, "I digress." The main thing is that it has been an
enormous boost to me to have local builders who are friends and are good
sources of info and assistance. This List is obviously that way, too, but
there is nothing like face-to-face camaraderie. And, as you say, we are
certainly individualists.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
Don't forget those that have GN-1 Aircampers and like to call them piets=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "amsafetyc@aol.com" <a
msafetyc@aol.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol builders Board <pietenpol-list@matronics.
com>=0ASent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:15:59 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenp
amsafetyc@aol.com=0A=0AOscar=0A=0AThere are 3 groups of people in this=0A
=0APeople that have piets=0APeople building piets=0APeople interested in bu
ilding=0A=0AWhy go east and west=0A=0AWhy not one event in the middle of th
e country so everyone can attend and no one is required cross country=0A=0A
Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin- by or through chicago by car
or air=0A=0AThere are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need
no stinkin Box O Airplane- factory guy more like component guys are bette
r wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henr
ob.- Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if they wi
ll lend or send- demo guys, instructors and class practice supplies and o
r displays with answer guys. =0A=0AI wonder how many would be interested in
that for a modest fee. Naturally part of the program will have to point to
wards intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making inferential
decisions, pre build decisions and a national network of in process builde
rs in the area to help out=0A=0AJust some thoughts=0A=0AAlso not all builde
rs know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and hombuilders sites wil
l provide access to the larger market that do no know about this board. I b
elieve the market is much larger than we really know. =0A=0AHow's that for
ideas and comment?=0A=0AJohn=0A------Original Message------=0AFrom: Oscar Z
uniga=0ASender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0ATo: Pietenpol b
uilders Board=0AReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board=0ASent: Sep 12, 2009 11:2
9 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-
List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>=0A=0A=0AWell,
let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft=0ASpruce, and others hold bui
lders' workshops a=0Acouple of times a year at different venues, mostly=0Af
or things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose=0Asomeone organized an A
ir Camper builders' workshop=0Aand got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft
Spruce=0Abehind it.- Would people come to such an event?=0A=0AThe big bu
ilders' workshops have both east and west=0Acoast venues due to the high in
terest in some of=0Athe plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air=0AC
amper interest would be high enough for more than=0Aone such event in any g
iven year, and it would=0Aprobably be held in Florida or California.=0A=0AI
'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just=0Awondering if scratch b
uilders are of the same mindset=0Aas kit builders in wanting to attend a gr
oup workshop.=0AMy opinion is that we are mostly individualists and=0Aperso
nal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely=0Asince I am not particula
rly crafty), and that a=0Agroup setting would not really interest too many
of=0Athe type of people who want to build Piets.=0A=0AComments?=0A=0AOscar
Zuniga=0AAir Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio, TX=0Amailto: taildrags@hotmail.co
m=0Awebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASent from my
==
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
Maybe Wicks would sponser a workshop at their place. They have the wood,
they have the equipment, they have the woodworking expertise, and we
could all pick up wood and supplies while we were there and they would
make money. We would also get to see some really neat pipe organs and
how they build them.
Mike just getting started
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
To: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Actually I figured the too were part of the group. I am not going to
exclude them I would rather they did participate and the 612 rib guys
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: H RULE
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Don't forget those that have GN-1 Aircampers and like to call them
piets
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "amsafetyc@aol.com" <amsafetyc@aol.com>
To: Pietenpol builders Board <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:15:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar
There are 3 groups of people in this
People that have piets
People building piets
People interested in building
Why go east and west
Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can attend
and no one is required cross country
Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin by or through chicago by
car or air
There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no
stinkin Box O Airplane factory guy more like component guys are better
wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric,
henrob. Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if
they will lend or send demo guys, instructors and class practice
supplies and or displays with answer guys.
I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee.
Naturally part of the program will have to point towards intellectual
issues like understanding the prints, making inferential decisions, pre
build decisions and a national network of in process builders in the
area to help out
Just some thoughts
Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA
and hombuilders sites will provide access to the larger market that do
no know about this board. I believe the market is much larger than we
really know.
How's that for ideas and comment?
John
------Original Message------
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
To: Pietenpol builders Board
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlList"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="
http://forums.matronics.com/" nbsp; -->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
=B7=9B~=89=ED=B2,=DE=03g('=8A=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
Tom Poberezny:
Tom Poberezny
President, Experimental Aircraft Association
P.O. Box 3086
Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
August 3rd,
2009
Dear Mr. Poberezny,
I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to
get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was that
I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour
pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the end
of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuilt
Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to celebrate
the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man out
(which was me) did not get to fly.
I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time to
be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so we
get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President
of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board.
I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft,
preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much
richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
Sincerely,
Jack Phillips
EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003)
Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
2005)
cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter,
without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
Jack,
Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future,
and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do
better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
Please know that your thoughts are important.
Regards,
Tom
Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
Chairman of the Board & President
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
Phone: 920.426.4810
Fax: 920.426.4878
www.eaa.org
See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The
"E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stands
for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is
a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and
that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization. I
realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely have
no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and
as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the
virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
visit to Oshkosh, an!
d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected
to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the world
where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft,
in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
place for only one week of the year.
It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed
a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Jack
Well done it appears to me that the EAA is now upside down in its approach to honoring
its roots which should always be first and the centerpiece.
Without wilbur and orvile there would be no piper jet or big honkin airbus 380.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
Tom Poberezny:
Tom Poberezny
President, Experimental Aircraft Association
P.O. Box 3086
Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
August 3rd,
2009
Dear Mr. Poberezny,
I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to
get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was that
I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour
pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the end
of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuilt
Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to celebrate
the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man out
(which was me) did not get to fly.
I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time to
be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so we
get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President
of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board.
I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft,
preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much
richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
Sincerely,
Jack Phillips
EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003)
Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
2005)
cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter,
without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
Jack,
Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future,
and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do
better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
Please know that your thoughts are important.
Regards,
Tom
Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
Chairman of the Board & President
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
Phone: 920.426.4810
Fax: 920.426.4878
www.eaa.org
See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The
"E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stands
for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is
a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and
that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization. I
realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely have
no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and
as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the
virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
visit to Oshkosh, an!
d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected
to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the world
where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft,
in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
place for only one week of the year.
It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed
a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Jack, Thank you for your thoughtful and to the point comments!--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
> Tom Poberezny:
>
> Tom Poberezny
> President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> P.O. Box 3086
> Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> August 3rd,
> 2009
> Dear Mr. Poberezny,
>
> I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
> to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
> heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
> understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try
> to
> get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
> I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
>
> I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
> its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
> homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
> seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
>
> Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
> Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
> mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was
> that
> I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
> On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
> 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
> hour
> pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the
> end
> of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
> Homebuilt
> Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to
> celebrate
> the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man
> out
> (which was me) did not get to fly.
>
> I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time
> to
> be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
> to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
> demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
> plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so
> we
> get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
>
> I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
> President
> of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
> Board.
> I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
> am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
> However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
> aircraft,
> preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
> building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
> much
> richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
> the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Jack Phillips
> EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
> 2003)
> Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
> 2005)
>
> cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
>
>
> To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
> letter,
> without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
>
> Jack,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
> future,
> and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
> comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
> the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to
> do
> better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
> Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
> Please know that your thoughts are important.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> Chairman of the Board & President
> EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> Phone: 920.426.4810
> Fax: 920.426.4878
>
> www.eaa.org
>
> See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
>
> Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
> on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
> is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Church
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
> The
> "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
> stands
> for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there
> is
> a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
> and
> that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.
> I
> realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
> have
> no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
> much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
> and
> as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
> the
> virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
> visit to Oshkosh, an!
> d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
> connected
> to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
> manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
> ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
> world
> where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
> airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
> aircraft,
> in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
> can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
> Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
> place for only one week of the year.
> It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
> the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
> play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
> article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
> needed
> a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
I would like to weigh in on this. There has been an informal Piet builders
workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now. We can't actually call it that,
but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet
people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone. That
has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved
with it. Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd. A couple of years ago it
was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial
Piet. We are open to projects and participation. If anyone has a project
to make some fast progress on let me know.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
how about someone just producing a good video series. I would love to see some
training vids on piet building.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262743#262743
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
Buy Mike Cuy's excellent video on building and flying his Piet. You can get
it at: http://www.flyingwood.com/NX48MC.htm
It is almost as useful as the set of 4 Tony Bingelis books.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of regchief
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet builders' workshop
how about someone just producing a good video series. I would love to see
some training vids on piet building.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262743#262743
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
Oscar;
Why not tie an event like a Piet "wood" builders event in with Copperstate at Casa
Grande, AZ in October? This Oct may be too soon (or not) but next year gives
13 months to plan and organize it.
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
On Sep 12, 2009, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-attack
aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco)
it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
there :)
Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven
technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a
big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it
is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens to
be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
information.
Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at our
EAA meeting the other night.
Shad
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Jack et al,
I certainly think that many folks agree, in all or part, with many of your
points and concerns. But to be fair, let's not forget that in the past year
or so, EAA has launched the new "Experimenter" newsletter, which is very
much oriented towards the scratch-builder/experimental aspects... and better
yet, has made it available to all who want it, not just EAA members. EAA, as
wonderful and skilled as they are in many areas, still suffers from the same
problem that most EAA chapters, churches, civic organizations, online
communities, and virtually every other group on earth faces... the same
small core group of folks does most of the work, and there's always much
more to do than there are folks willing and/or able to do it. EAA actually
gets things done better than most groups overall, I think. That's not to say
that they shouldn't have covered the Piets... or the T-28 anniversary... or
even the nearly NTSB-investigation-worthy arrival of the A380. But Sport
Aviation would have to be 400 pages long to cover everything properly, and
it would take 5 months to write, edit, and produce! They're human and have
deadlines and make mistakes (heck, last month's Sport Pilot had a very
noticeable typo... right on the cover!) Not the end of the world, but a
reminder that things do slip through the cracks, even in the big leagues.
I'm not saying it's acceptable that they didn't cover the Piets at all, BUT
I strongly suspect that it was little more than an embarassing oversight,
not a wilful desire to cut the Piets out, and they might even be very
embarassed over it, now that they've been made aware of the oversight.
As for the fly-bys, I remember the same kind of issues becoming apparent
when they had 7 different Trimotors doing fly-bys a few years ago... we all
could have watched it all day, but they only were able to do it for a very
few minutes, despite the truly historic nature of such a collection (only
about 4 were Fords... one was a Junkers, one was a seaplane, I think there
was something else too...) It does sound like it ended up being a mess but
given the insane air traffic situation there, it's possible there's more to
it than one or two guys dropping the ball. Heck, some of that could have
come down from the FAA or even their insurance carriers, who knows. Maybe
they're just trying to cram in too much for the time they alotted. The best
thing to do is to thoroughly document the problems and who said and did
what, and let them know (which you already did)... and give them a chance to
correct it.
EAA isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than any other group at
supporting the kind of aviation we all enjoy, and is vital in keeping things
going in the face of a government that gets more oppressive by the day
towards aviation. They need our support and turning these problems into a
lets-bash-EAA party WILL hurt us. So...
Let's adopt the homebuilder spirit here and offer positive solutions and
ideas, and move on from there. Sure there should have been at least a
paragraph of two and a photo in with the rest of all the OSH coverage, but
let's encourage them to consider publishing a full article in an upcoming
issue that will provide more room for real info. Maybe they're already
planning this, who knows. Those of you who directly took part might even
write something yourselves, I just bet they'd welcome it.
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
> Tom Poberezny:
>
> Tom Poberezny
> President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> P.O. Box 3086
> Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> August 3rd,
> 2009
> Dear Mr. Poberezny,
>
> I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
> to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
> heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
> understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try
to
> get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
> I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
>
> I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
> its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
> homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
> seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
>
> Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
> Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
> mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was
that
> I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
> On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
> 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
hour
> pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the
end
> of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
Homebuilt
> Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to
celebrate
> the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man
out
> (which was me) did not get to fly.
>
> I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time
to
> be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
> to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
> demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
> plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so
we
> get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
>
> I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
President
> of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
Board.
> I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
> am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
> However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
aircraft,
> preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
> building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
much
> richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
> the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Jack Phillips
> EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
2003)
> Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
> 2005)
>
> cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
>
>
> To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
letter,
> without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
>
> Jack,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
future,
> and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
> comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
> the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to
do
> better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
> Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
> Please know that your thoughts are important.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> Chairman of the Board & President
> EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> Phone: 920.426.4810
> Fax: 920.426.4878
>
> www.eaa.org
>
> See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
>
> Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
> on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
> is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
<billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
The
> "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
stands
> for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there
is
> a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
and
> that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.
I
> realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
have
> no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
> much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
and
> as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
the
> virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
> visit to Oshkosh, an!
> d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
connected
> to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
> manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
> ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
world
> where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
> airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
aircraft,
> in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
> can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
> Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
> place for only one week of the year.
> It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
> the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
> play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
> article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
needed
> a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden fighters
in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies
were cut off we could still get a plane in the air.
Russell
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-attack
> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco)
> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
> there :)
>
> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven
> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
>
> Mike Whaley
> MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
>
> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a
> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it
> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens
> to
> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
> information.
>
> Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at
> our
> EAA meeting the other night.
>
> Shad
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation |
Well said,
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:29 AM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Jack et al,
>
> I certainly think that many folks agree, in all or part, with many of your
> points and concerns. But to be fair, let's not forget that in the past year
> or so, EAA has launched the new "Experimenter" newsletter, which is very
> much oriented towards the scratch-builder/experimental aspects... and
> better
> yet, has made it available to all who want it, not just EAA members. EAA,
> as
> wonderful and skilled as they are in many areas, still suffers from the
> same
> problem that most EAA chapters, churches, civic organizations, online
> communities, and virtually every other group on earth faces... the same
> small core group of folks does most of the work, and there's always much
> more to do than there are folks willing and/or able to do it. EAA actually
> gets things done better than most groups overall, I think. That's not to
> say
> that they shouldn't have covered the Piets... or the T-28 anniversary... or
> even the nearly NTSB-investigation-worthy arrival of the A380. But Sport
> Aviation would have to be 400 pages long to cover everything properly, and
> it would take 5 months to write, edit, and produce! They're human and have
> deadlines and make mistakes (heck, last month's Sport Pilot had a very
> noticeable typo... right on the cover!) Not the end of the world, but a
> reminder that things do slip through the cracks, even in the big leagues.
> I'm not saying it's acceptable that they didn't cover the Piets at all, BUT
> I strongly suspect that it was little more than an embarassing oversight,
> not a wilful desire to cut the Piets out, and they might even be very
> embarassed over it, now that they've been made aware of the oversight.
>
> As for the fly-bys, I remember the same kind of issues becoming apparent
> when they had 7 different Trimotors doing fly-bys a few years ago... we all
> could have watched it all day, but they only were able to do it for a very
> few minutes, despite the truly historic nature of such a collection (only
> about 4 were Fords... one was a Junkers, one was a seaplane, I think there
> was something else too...) It does sound like it ended up being a mess but
> given the insane air traffic situation there, it's possible there's more to
> it than one or two guys dropping the ball. Heck, some of that could have
> come down from the FAA or even their insurance carriers, who knows. Maybe
> they're just trying to cram in too much for the time they alotted. The best
> thing to do is to thoroughly document the problems and who said and did
> what, and let them know (which you already did)... and give them a chance
> to
> correct it.
>
> EAA isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than any other group at
> supporting the kind of aviation we all enjoy, and is vital in keeping
> things
> going in the face of a government that gets more oppressive by the day
> towards aviation. They need our support and turning these problems into a
> lets-bash-EAA party WILL hurt us. So...
>
> Let's adopt the homebuilder spirit here and offer positive solutions and
> ideas, and move on from there. Sure there should have been at least a
> paragraph of two and a photo in with the rest of all the OSH coverage, but
> let's encourage them to consider publishing a full article in an upcoming
> issue that will provide more room for real info. Maybe they're already
> planning this, who knows. Those of you who directly took part might even
> write something yourselves, I just bet they'd welcome it.
>
> -Mike
>
> Mike Whaley
> MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
> Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
>
> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> >
> > After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
> > Tom Poberezny:
> >
> > Tom Poberezny
> > President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> > P.O. Box 3086
> > Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> > August 3rd,
> > 2009
> > Dear Mr. Poberezny,
> >
> > I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> > Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the
> membership
> > to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
> > heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> > resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
> > understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try
> to
> > get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news,
> as
> > I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
> >
> > I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
> > its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
> > homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
> > seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
> >
> > Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
> > Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
> > mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was
> that
> > I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
> > On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end
> of
> > 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
> hour
> > pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the
> end
> > of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
> Homebuilt
> > Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to
> celebrate
> > the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man
> out
> > (which was me) did not get to fly.
> >
> > I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> > flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time
> to
> > be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is
> unclear
> > to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA
> has
> > demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
> > plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so
> we
> > get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
> >
> > I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
> President
> > of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
> Board.
> > I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> > expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.
> I
> > am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
> > However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> > successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
> aircraft,
> > preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and
> currently
> > building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
> much
> > richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is
> still
> > the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
> 2003)
> > Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
> > 2005)
> >
> > cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
> >
> >
> >
> > To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
> letter,
> > without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
> >
> > Jack,
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
> future,
> > and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
> > comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> > organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and
> at
> > the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to
> do
> > better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
> > Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
> > Please know that your thoughts are important.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> > Chairman of the Board & President
> > EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> > Phone: 920.426.4810
> > Fax: 920.426.4878
> >
> > www.eaa.org
> >
> > See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
> >
> > Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry
> Davis
> > on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think
> it
> > is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> > Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> > Raleigh, NC
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Church
> > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
> >
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
> >
> > Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
> The
> > "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
> stands
> > for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> > factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there
> is
> > a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> > definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
> and
> > that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.
> I
> > realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
> have
> > no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and
> would
> > much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
> and
> > as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
> the
> > virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> > North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
> > visit to Oshkosh, an!
> > d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
> connected
> > to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
> > manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
> > ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
> world
> > where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
> > airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
> aircraft,
> > in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that
> Oshkosh
> > can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a
> few).
> > Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> > co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
> > place for only one week of the year.
> > It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
> > the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going
> to
> > play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
> > article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> > they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
> needed
> > a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
> >
> > Bill C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
Hi, the British actually did, and it was one of the most successfull
designs of the war, my daytime job is restoring one, the DH 98 Mosquito
fighter / bomber.
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Ray
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden
fighters
in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies
were cut off we could still get a plane in the air.
Russell
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
wrote:
<MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
light-attack
aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated
Bronco)
it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered
for
consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite
biased
there :)
Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's
gotta be
stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
"proven
technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51
mustang? It
was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970.
It had a
big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air
force so it
is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just
happens to
be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for
some
photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
information.
Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo
pepper at our
EAA meeting the other night.
st Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
No I'm very concerned about the heat resistance of my epoxy and the
temperature that it burns, it is a thermal plastic
and when it catches it burns like gasoline so as I said before I am very
critical of the epoxy in the areas of the firewall
and with good reason. I have tested it in the oven and there is a reason
also that most fiberglass airplanes are painted
white, there is a reason that epoxy must be reinforced with screws in
construction in areas such as attics where there
is high heat. T-88 probably has the best heat resistance but then again if
there is a high quality glue that has better
heat resistance in the area of the fire wall then I will use it on my plane.
Russell
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
> Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans.
>
> On another point...
> I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that catches
> fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my epoxy stands
> up to this heat".
>
> BC
>
> **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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