Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Mon 09/14/09


Total Messages Posted: 63



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:19 AM - Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES (jimd)
     2. 04:32 AM - Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES (jimd)
     3. 05:22 AM - Re: yep--it's a little bit dated--Mike Cuy's DVD is 	still available (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
     4. 06:14 AM - Re: Seat back ply...structural? (Michael Perez)
     5. 06:25 AM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (TOM STINEMETZE)
     6. 07:18 AM - Re: 0235 engine report (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
     7. 07:21 AM - Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES (Bill Church)
     8. 07:21 AM - Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Michael Perez)
     9. 07:37 AM - Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics (Jerry Dotson)
    10. 07:45 AM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
    11. 07:46 AM - Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at 	Oshkosh? YES (Craig Steffen)
    12. 08:04 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Bill Church)
    13. 08:09 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Jack Phillips)
    14. 08:10 AM - Re: Seat back ply...structural? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    15. 08:18 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Ken Howe)
    16. 08:18 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Michael Perez)
    17. 08:27 AM - Re: Seat back ply...structural? (Michael Perez)
    18. 08:41 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Bill Church)
    19. 09:03 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Craig Steffen)
    20. 09:04 AM - Definitly not a home-built (TOM STINEMETZE)
    21. 09:10 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Bill Church)
    22. 09:52 AM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Owen Davies)
    23. 09:52 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Michael Perez)
    24. 09:56 AM - Re: Definitly not a home-built (Michael Perez)
    25. 09:58 AM - why even build ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    26. 10:12 AM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Michael Perez)
    27. 10:21 AM - spelling (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    28. 10:21 AM - Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    29. 10:22 AM - Re: Definitely not a home-built (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    30. 10:40 AM - Re: Definitely not a home-built (Michael Perez)
    31. 10:46 AM - fly-ins (skellytown flyer)
    32. 10:52 AM - Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee (Craig Steffen)
    33. 11:11 AM - humped center section (Oscar Zuniga)
    34. 11:22 AM - Re: humped center section (Bill Church)
    35. 11:41 AM - Re: humped center section (Ryan Mueller)
    36. 11:53 AM - Re: humped center section (Bill Church)
    37. 12:12 PM - Lee Bottom Flying Field, Hanover, Indiana (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    38. 12:19 PM - Re: [piet] Re: Off topic, but interesting (Graham Hansen)
    39. 12:23 PM - Re: humped center section (Gary Boothe)
    40. 12:44 PM - Re: Definitely not a home-built (Dan Yocum)
    41. 01:13 PM - Re: humped center section (Gary Boothe)
    42. 02:52 PM - Re: humped center section (gcardinal@comcast.net)
    43. 03:26 PM - New Shirts and Stuff Available (John Hofmann)
    44. 03:42 PM - Mike Cuy's DVD is 	still available (Jim Markle)
    45. 03:53 PM - Re: [piet] Re: Off topic, but interesting (Gene & Tammy)
    46. 04:17 PM - Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    47. 05:40 PM - Jim M. welding aluminum (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    48. 05:42 PM - Re: New Shirts and Stuff Available (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    49. 05:49 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Dick N.)
    50. 05:49 PM - Vertical offset (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
    51. 06:03 PM - Re: Jim M. welding aluminum (Jim Markle)
    52. 06:13 PM - Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available (Jim Markle)
    53. 06:18 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop Sun-N-Fun (Ben Charvet)
    54. 06:40 PM - Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    55. 06:42 PM - Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee (Robert Ray)
    56. 07:11 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 09/12/09 (Matt Keyes)
    57. 07:35 PM - Re: Jim M. welding aluminum (K5YAC)
    58. 07:40 PM - Ryan and Jess Mueller, famous radio subjects and Piet builders (helspersew@aol.com)
    59. 07:42 PM - Jim Markle alum welding (helspersew@aol.com)
    60. 08:24 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Mike Whaley)
    61. 08:43 PM - Re: Vertical offset ()
    62. 09:14 PM - Aero-TV: Profiles in Aviation - Rob Bach and His Pietenpol  (Mike Whaley)
    63. 11:53 PM - Re: humped center section (Clif Dawson)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:19:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
    YES
    From: "jimd" <jlducey@hotmail.com>
    They had some EAA classes in the KC area few weeks back, but the one I really wanted, the discover homebuilding(?) one where they do wood, fabric, composite, and aluminum... wasn't offfered, in fact it seems to be offered once a year only in some remote place. Wood working class would be nice. I ended up taking the avionics/soldering class, which was pretty pointless with my aerial project, since it has no avionics or electric.. but it was a fun class. Jim D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262900#262900


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:32:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
    YES
    From: "jimd" <jlducey@hotmail.com>
    Also, saw a posting on the biplane forum about an A/C wood working workshop.. which already happened, however they may do them more than just once ever; I realize this is kind of short notice but Blue Swallow Aircraft,LLC is holding a two day "Historical Aircraft Wood Working Workshop" this coming Sat. and Sun. Sept. 12-13 near Charlottesville, VA (CHO) Wehad a cancelation so there is still room for someone who would be interested in learning about selecting and working with Spruce and other aircraft grade woods. There are more details of the class on our web site BlueSwallowAircraft.com and you can email me for help. Jim D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262902#262902


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:22:15 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: yep--it's a little bit dated--Mike Cuy's DVD is
    still available Ryan writes: Why haven't you sent him a check yet? You are too kind Ryan but I thank you and YES...why haven't some of your in fidels written a check yet ? :) 100% joking. I never intended to sell a video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a "walk a round" of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me and sent me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped film. I threw in a vid eo walk around as well and added bunches of old video and he called me and said "man, you should sell those tapes". The rest is history. And yes-Jim Markle sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glas s mug or whatever turnpike money you might have in your pocket:) Also kid ding. You actually have to buy him dinner too. You know I love you Jim. ...keep the faith. And where IS my 10% cut on those second gen DVD's ??? ? Mike C.


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:14:14 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Seat back ply...structural?
    So, Mike C., if I hear you right, you say it would not be a good idea? Is t hat what you are saying?-- 8^[-) - It was actually YOUR pictures that started the whole idea! I thought about building a frame, (as I said in the original post), then lay in some type o f webbing, fabric, elastic....something, (think lawn chair) for comfort. - It would have been a challenge to figure out how to reshape the turtle deck /storage area above the seat back to conform with the curved webbing, etc. Then there's the front seat... - Anyhoo, I get the feeling you are against it and seeing how building as dra wn is simpler, I will continue as drawn.- - Thanks.


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:25:29 AM PST US
    From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
    Subject: Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine
    Mike: That's dramatic enough for me - thank you very much! I'm glad to hear that it worked out so well for you. I guess that's a good reason for doing the 40-hour flyoff in close proximity to the airfield. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. >>> Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz> 9/11/2009 5:11 PM >>> Hi Tom, the incident was not as dramatic as it could have been. The muffler was made from thin stainless which cracked on takeoff and the exhaust proceeded to burn the ply of the cockpit foor, adjacent to the fuel drain. The fire burnt through a layer of paint and lightweight fibreglass cloth then through one ply of 3mm plywood in a matter of seconds. When throttled back the burning appeared to stop, I completed a circut and landed. Our intended route was along a rather inhospitable stretch of coastline and had the fire occured later the outcome would have been very different. The epoxy in the fibreglass burnt but the epoxy bonding the ply was still in good condition, I guess the ply limited the heat transfered through. Changes made after this incident: muffler made of heavier and less brittle grade of stainless, supported further away from fuse and flexibly mounted, metal sheilds on floor. The story does not stop there as the new muffler had a tail pipe that was horizontal with the bottom of the fuse, and on the next flight I felt a little off colour, I then saw the CO indicator was black. Time to get back on the deck and modify the exhaust yet again. I now do thorough checks after making any changes as the unexpected can and does happen. The aircraft in question was an enclosed cockpit Jodel not a Pietenpol. regards


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:18:42 AM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: 0235 engine report
    The saga continues. the guy that's working the heads just received them so not much to report there unless he calls me and for some reason with news that they are beyond repair. I got a call form the lady in Dallas who lode me my tappets were shot but was able to get me a full set of serviceable tappet cores then has had them machined so the cam and lifters are about ready to ship. So that's the deal on the valve train. Now to pay for it all. John


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:21:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
    YES
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Craig, You say that you'd be willing to travel halfway across the country, and pay $250 for a weekend course that will teach you how to build a wing rib, but are hesitant to spend $100 or $180 for a set of Pietenpol plans. Is that because you don't know if you are capable of building a wooden airplane, or because you don't know if the Piet is the plane for you? If you want to try both, for a very small cash outlay, buy a copy of the old Flying and Glider reprints from EAA - that will get you a very small set of 1929 plans, but will still provide enough information to allow you to build a wing rib. Then, go to the EAA website, and check out the homebuilders videos on working with wood. They cover pretty much all you need to know to build a rib. If you have a tablesaw, you can buy a couple of 2x4's from Home Depot, and rip them into capstrip sizes, and for $5 have enough wood to make a few practice ribs. The technique is the same when it comes to the real thing - the only difference is the quality of the wood. The woodworking skills required to build a Pietenpol are not really that great. The most challenging woodworking would probably be the landing gear (for the old Jenny-style gear). Bill C.


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:21:34 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
    I have seen both aluminum and plywood used for covering of the cowlings/ins trument bays on the top of the Pietenpol. Advantages using either one?- I t looks like I have enough plywood on hand to use, but wonder if aluminum i s better.


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:37:32 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net>
    I dug up another old picture. It is one I made in the darkroom about 1970. This is the SR-9C. I flew it a bunch to fly-ins for him. I remember 15 gallons/hr and 125 MPH. Kinda like a Piet on roids! -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs all done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262929#262929 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/stinson_sr_9c_549.jpg


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:45:00 AM PST US
    From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
    Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
    Yes, this Wiki article says that the second prototype spin in inverted. Pilot got out. It also had some other problems IE Engine Vibration and performance not up to expectations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_XP-77 With lowered performance expectations and using a lower HP engine It would be doable. Blue Skies, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting > > Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: > > the Bell XP-77 is one of my favorites that might make a great WW II homebuilt replica. Small, Wood, It only had a 500 HP motor and looks cool. > I thought about that project once, too, and it still appeals to me. (Not > that I'll get to fly one as an LSA!) But I understand that the prototype > went in owing to aerodynamic problems. Do you have any details? > > Owen > > > >


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:46:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
    YES
    From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen@gmail.com>
    Hi Bill, On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote: > You say that you'd be willing to travel halfway across the country, and pay > $250 for a weekend course that will teach you how to build a wing rib, but > are hesitant to spend $100 or $180 for a set of Pietenpol plans. Sorry; I re-read my message; I did say that, but that's because I was being sloppy with my wording. I'm not concerned about the cash outlay for the plans. I'm concerned about the time involved. I don't want to get a year or two into building something (not to mention thousands of dollars or more in materials) and then realize that the reason I'm not working very fast is that I don't like working on that kind of material. > Is that because you don't know if you are capable of building a wooden > airplane, or because you don't know if the Piet is the plane for you? The second. I'm going to go to the fly-in at Lee Bottom and try to sit in one, to at least try out the cockpit fit. > If you want to try both, for a very small cash outlay, buy a copy of the old > Flying and Glider reprints from EAA - that will get you a very small set of > 1929 plans, but will still provide enough information to allow you to build > a wing rib. I got those plans at Oshkosh in August. Building a rib or two, or something bigger, like a tailfin is a good idea. I would really like to hook up with somebody locally who has built with wood to get an idea if I'm doing it right. > Then, go to the EAA website, and check out the homebuilders > videos on working with wood. They cover pretty much all you need to know to > build a rib. I didn't know about those. Ok, I'll check that out, thanks! > If you have a tablesaw, you can buy a couple of 2x4's from Home > Depot, and rip them into capstrip sizes, and for $5 have enough wood to make > a few practice ribs. The technique is the same when it comes to the real > thing - the only difference is the quality of the wood. Ok, that makes sense. > The woodworking skills required to build a Pietenpol are not really that > great. The most challenging woodworking would probably be the landing gear > (for the old Jenny-style gear). Although the spoked-wheel-style certainly looks cool, for a first airplane I'm going to build whatever minimizes my time (and money) invested to make something that flies and lands safely. Thank for the information! I will definitely follow up on that. Sincerely, Craig Steffen


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:04:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    As I see it, Aluminum is probably a better material if you want to be able ro remove the decking. If you will not want to be able to remove it, there is some weight savings to be achieved by using plywood. 1/16" Aircraft Birch Ply has a density of about 0.2 pounds per square foot, whereas .025" Aluminum weighs about 0.35 pounds per square foot. There's about 10 square feet of decking between the pilot's seat and the firewall, so that translates to about a pound and a half of savings. But the aluminum will need to be fastened with a bunch of screws, which also have weight - whereas the plywood could be glued in place (also some weight for the glue, but less than the weight of the screws). So, by using plywood you might be able to shave a couple of pounds off the weight of your plane, but you will not have the ability to remove the decking. Your call. Either one works. Bill C.


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:09:23 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
    Don't forget to add the weight of the varnish for the plywood, which the aluminum won't need (although it will need primer under the paint). I personally have not seen a Pietenpol with anything but aluminum for the cockpit cowling. It is very nice to be able to remove it for plumbing all the instruments. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings As I see it, Aluminum is probably a better material if you want to be able ro remove the decking. If you will not want to be able to remove it, there is some weight savings to be achieved by using plywood. 1/16" Aircraft Birch Ply has a density of about 0.2 pounds per square foot, whereas .025" Aluminum weighs about 0.35 pounds per square foot. There's about 10 square feet of decking between the pilot's seat and the firewall, so that translates to about a pound and a half of savings. But the aluminum will need to be fastened with a bunch of screws, which also have weight - whereas the plywood could be glued in place (also some weight for the glue, but less than the weight of the screws). So, by using plywood you might be able to shave a couple of pounds off the weight of your plane, but you will not have the ability to remove the decking. Your call. Either one works. Bill C.


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:10:58 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Seat back ply...structural?
    Whoops-- misread your question Mike P. You were talking about a framed in seat bulkhead but with something else/ webbing/ etc. in the 'meat' portion, center of it. RTFQ is in order for me ! Mike C.


    Message 15


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:18:50 AM PST US
    From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
    Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
    I've been following this discussion, and would like to add my 2 cents. I'd be unlikely to travel more than a half day drive for the sole purpose of attending a building workshop. That's not to say that I wouldn't want to, but I just don't think I could justify the travel expense at this time. There really is loads I could learn, and living here in the center of the RV world ( Dick Van G. is a member of our chapter) there's not a lot of wood builders to learn from. IF I do make the pilgrimage to Brodhead and Oshkosh in the future, then I'd jump on the chance to attend a workshop. --Ken Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft > Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a > couple of times a year at different venues, mostly > for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose > someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop > and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce > behind it. Would people come to such an event? > > The big builders' workshops have both east and west > coast venues due to the high interest in some of > the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air > Camper interest would be high enough for more than > one such event in any given year, and it would > probably be held in Florida or California. > > I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just > wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset > as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. > My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and > personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely > since I am not particularly crafty), and that a > group setting would not really interest too many of > the type of people who want to build Piets. > > Comments? > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > >


    Message 16


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:18:55 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
    Thank you Bill. Your post had use full numbers I was hoping someone would p ost. I am not at the cowling point just yet, but close. I was thinking abou t a curved plywood cowl with maybe a former under it to hold the shape, the n have it removable by screws or hinge it. I have not looked at them very c lose yet, so I may be off here in my thinking. - -


    Message 17


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:27:13 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Seat back ply...structural?
    No problem Mr. Cuy. I am looking for comfort outside of adding a seat cushi on. (That's just too easy!)- So I started thinking of a lawn chair type s etup, in general, with multiple mesh/webbing straps or a larger one piece o f material.- (Like a directors chair) The various marine and outdoor livi ng type places have UV and water proof material that would work. We'll see. I don't think it would be a good idea to have a "soft" back seat with the plywood turtle deck riser/storage bin above that. I would think that riser would need to be moved so my back/shoulders/neck don't rest against it and not the soft back seat.


    Message 18


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:41:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Like I said, if you want the decking to be removable, Aluminum is probably the better way to go. By the time you add formers and screws and hinges and, and, and... there won't likely be any weight savings to be seen. BC


    Message 19


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:03:51 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
    From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen@gmail.com>
    On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Dick N. <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote: > I would like to weigh in on this. There has been an informal Piet builders > workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now. We can't actually call it that, > but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet > people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone. Hey, that's great information. I've been looking for an excuse to go to Sun-n-Fun anyway. Thanks! >That > has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved > with it. Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd. A couple of years ago it > was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial > Piet. We are open to projects and participation. If anyone has a project > to make some fast progress on let me know. I won't at that time, but if I haven't managed to get some up-close looks at wood-working, I'd definitely like to attend and offer my time in exchange for being able to work on something. So at Sun-and-Fun in Florida. Does it go all week, or are the specific times that it's scheduled to go on? I will keep that in mind for the spring, thanks a lot. Craig Steffen


    Message 20


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:04:33 AM PST US
    From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
    Subject: Definitly not a home-built
    On a strictly non-Pietenpol subject. My son Matt sent me this photo this morning of the Space Shuttle landing at Edwards Air Force Base - about 15-miles away from where he works in Mojave, CA. He and his wife were fortunate enough to be in Florida and watch the launch about a week ago so this was pretty exciting for him. NASA can't be all bad if they hire people like Mike C. do not archive Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS


    Message 21


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:10:36 AM PST US
    Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    You're right, Jack. I forgot to include the weight of the varnish. Varnish is required for the plywood (inside and out), whereas the aluminum doesn't need it (unless you're going for the Spirit of St. Louis look). So the potential weight savings would be a bit less than advertised. The plans call for aluminum. I've personally seen one Pietenpol (that I know of) with plywood cockpit cowling. C-FAUK has plywood rather than aluminum. It's been flying for more than 20 years. Just saw it again yesterday, as a matter of fact. I also have attached a photo of a British Piet (G-ECVB) under construction, which shows the plywood before covering. Note that the plywood stops just ahead of the front cockpit, as this plane has fuel in the nose, and used a removable aluminum cover over the fuel tank. A doubler of plywood is used around the perimeter of the cockpit openings. And here's a link to a photo of the finished plane: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0678122/L/ Bill C.


    Message 22


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:52:07 AM PST US
    From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
    Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_XP-77 Interesting! I'd missed that. Thanks. Well, on due reflection, the Hawker Hurricane had some wood. And for the rest of it, I enjoy welding. Or...Mosquito, anybody? Owen


    Message 23


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:52:15 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
    I like the look of the smooth plywood as opposed to the aluminum with all t he screws. Another alternative could be a perminate plywood cowling with a removeable instument panel. Still planning, but thanks for the tips. --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote: From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings _filtered #yiv1742377826 { font-family:Tahoma;} _filtered #yiv1742377826 {margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} #yiv1742377826 P.MsoNormal { MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman";FONT-SIZE:12pt;} #yiv1742377826 LI.MsoNormal { MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman";FONT-SIZE:12pt;} #yiv1742377826 DIV.MsoNormal { MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman";FONT-SIZE:12pt;} #yiv1742377826 A:link { COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv1742377826 SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv1742377826 A:visited { COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv1742377826 SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} #yiv1742377826 PRE { MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Courier New";FONT-SIZE:10pt;} #yiv1742377826 SPAN.EmailStyle18 { FONT-FAMILY:Arial;COLOR:navy;} #yiv1742377826 DIV.Section1 { } You're right, Jack. I forgot to-include the weight of the varnish. Varnis h is required for the plywood (inside and out), whereas the aluminum doesn' t need it (unless you're going for the Spirit of St. Louis look). So the po tential weight savings-would be-a bit less than advertised. - The plans call for aluminum. - I've personally seen one Pietenpol (that I know of) with plywood cockpit co wling. C-FAUK has plywood rather than aluminum. It's been flying for more t han 20 years. Just saw it again yesterday, as a matter of fact. I also have attached a photo of a British Piet (G-ECVB) under construction, which shows the plywood before covering. Note that the plywood stops just ahead of the front cockpit, as this plane has fuel in the nose, and used a removable aluminum cover over the fuel tank. A doubler of plywood is used a round the perimeter of the cockpit openings. And here's a link to a photo of the finished plane: - http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0678122/L/ - Bill C.-


    Message 24


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:56:03 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Definitly not a home-built
    The only thing Mike is good for here at NASA is Pietenpol advise! Most days I avoid him...his-work ethics are hard to-deal with day in and day out . That is obvious by the multiple postings he submits here on the list inst ead of working. ( Not like myself...) 8^[ ) --- On Mon, 9/14/09, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@MCPCITY.COM> wrote: From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@MCPCITY.COM> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Definitly not a home-built On a strictly non-Pietenpol subject.--- My son Matt sent me this phot o this morning of the Space Shuttle landing at Edwards Air Force Base - abo ut 15-miles away from where he works in Mojave, CA.- He and his wife were fortunate enough to be in Florida and watch the launch about a week ago so this was pretty exciting for him.- - NASA can't be all bad if they hire people like Mike C. do not archive - Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS --


    Message 25


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:58:54 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: why even build ?
    Just by one and start fun-start flying ! Here's a few that are on Bar nstormers right now. Boy these things aren't worth much are they ? PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER<http://barnstormers.com/classified_365089_pietenpol+air camper.html> * $12,000 * AVAILABLE FOR SALE OR TRADE * approx 4 yrs old, tt 50 hrs 65 cont perfect cond. exceptional workmanship. always hangered, s g a. * Contact Harold J. Hendricks<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php ?to=52489&id=365089&title=pietenpol+aircamper&return=%2Flisting.php %3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbC I7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiU GFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwi O3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJ GaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6Ii I7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7c zo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdv cnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjt zOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Naples, FL USA * Telephone: 239 293 5169 . * Posted September 1, 2009 * Show all Ads poste d by this Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch& user=52489> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/recom mend.php?id=365089&title=pietenpol+aircamper> * Email Advertiser<http:/ /barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=52489&id=365089&title=pietenp ol+aircamper&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7cz o3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzO jg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVm YWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjt zOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cn kiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO 3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBh bnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czo wOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%25 3D> * Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?AD D=365089> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=365 089&title=pietenpol+aircamper> PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER <http://barnstormers.com/classified_362890_PIETENPOL+AI RCAMPER+.html> * $10,000 * FLY CHEAP * See my other ads for pictures. Power ed with a fresh A-65 continental this plane is a HOOT to fly! * Contact Nik ita C. Clark<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=65515&id=362 890&title=PIETENPOL+AIRCAMPER+&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26 filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3Jpc HRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czow OiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkN vbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MD oiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzO jA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czow OiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo 4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3 M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Seattle, WA USA * Telephone: 206 3 885370 * Posted August 24, 2009 * Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser<ht tp://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=65515> * Recomme nd This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/recommend.php?id=362890&ti tle=PIETENPOL+AIRCAMPER+> * Email Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/cont act_seller.php?to=65515&id=362890&title=PIETENPOL+AIRCAMPER+&return =%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzO jk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtz OjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiI iO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIj tzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6I lN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBo b25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiI iO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2 VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save to Watch list<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=362890> * Repor t This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=362890&title=PIETENP OL+AIRCAMPER+> PIETENPOL READY FOR COVERING <http://barnstormers.com/classified_360780_Pie tenpol+Ready+for+Covering+.html> * ACCEPTING OFFERS * PIETENPOL excellent w orkmanship, onepiece wing, ModelA, aviation grade spruce by professional sh op * Contact Shaun D. Slade<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to =58935&id=360780&title=Pietenpol+Ready+for+Covering+&return=%2Flist ing.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXR lbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7cz oxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiT W9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7 czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjt zOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOj A6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ 2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6 MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Lakeland , FL USA * Telephone: 863-660-5297 * Posted August 16, 2009 * Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=userse arch&user=58935> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/ recommend.php?id=360780&title=Pietenpol+Ready+for+Covering+> * Email Ad vertiser<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=58935&id=360780& title=Pietenpol+Ready+for+Covering+&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsear ch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVz Y3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI 7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOj c6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO 3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5 IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI 7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiIC I7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY 2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad _manager/watchlist.php?ADD=360780> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.c om/report_ad.php?id=360780&title=Pietenpol+Ready+for+Covering+> PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER<http://barnstormers.com/classified_340152_Pietenpol+Air camper.html> * $16,500 * FOR SALE TO GOOD HOME * Built to 1933 plans by IA. Short fuselage. Stits process covered. 65 hp Cont. Certified w/logs. Steer able tail wheel, Matco. 850X6 tires, Cleveland wheels and brakes. 15 gal. w elded aluminum tank. Univair "wood prop" Flotorp 72X46. New Slick Magnetos. J3 lift struts, 3 pc. wing. Flown 11.2 hrs, C of A 2004. Engine & airframe logs. Fresh condition insp. with sale. Always hangared, Tele 406 827-3402 * Contact Ken Montoure<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=8545 8&id=340152&title=Pietenpol+Aircamper&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3D search%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToi RGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJ lciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIj tzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hb WUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJD aXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWF pbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MT oiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vU HJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Thompson Falls, MT USA * Telephone: 406 827 3402 . * Posted July 29, 2009 * Show all Ads posted by t his Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user =85458> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/recommend .php?id=340152&title=Pietenpol+Aircamper> * Email Advertiser<http://bar nstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=85458&id=340152&title=Pietenpol+A ircamper&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3Oi JLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6I khlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0 dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg 6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3 M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6M DoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlF bWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiI iO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD= 340152> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=340152& title=Pietenpol+Aircamper> * View Larger Pictures<http://barnstormers.com /ad_detail.php?ID=340152&go_to_images=1>


    Message 26


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:12:46 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
    I got quite a bit of stick time in both the OV-10A and D. Granted I flew from the back, but I got to do areobatics as part of our test matrix. I was also ejection seat qualified, (to do maintanance) as well as taxi qualified on both models. I would like to see the -X!


    Message 27


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:21:24 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: spelling
    Make that BUY one not by one. Duh. do not archive


    Message 28


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:21:59 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee
    Hi Craig, You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully there will be a few of them there, weather permitting. You mention "trying to get out". May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently drawn to building a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking. There are bigger engines, longer wings, and wider fuselages for us "full figured girls" if you really think the Pietenpol is for you. (notice I'm not excluding myself.) Mike C.


    Message 29


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:22:48 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Definitely not a home-built
    Mike's right-I do lots of Piet posting here at work but my rigs are on auto pilot:) (well actually they are) Usually Mike asks me about doing something on a Pietenpol that I've never h eard of or considered so I usually am of no help to him whatsoever except to say "that's outside of my realm of knowledge Mi ke-yer on your own there." I'm a plain vanilla kind of Piet builder but Mike has a very creative mind and comes up with some very unique approaches to almost each part of the airplane. Bernard must be spinning rapidly in his grave: :) That's what homebuilding is all about tho-we always learn something neat from other builders when they come up with new ideas or looks. An now I MUST get back to work as my boss will be checking in around 4 pm ! Mike C.


    Message 30


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:40:04 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Definitely not a home-built
    Work is always getting in the way of something... =C2- --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy @nasa.gov> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Definitely not a home-built Mike=99s right=94I do lots of Piet posting here at work but my rigs are on auto pilotJ=C2-=C2-=C2- (well actually they are)=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2- Usually Mike asks me about doing something on a Pietenpol that I=99ve never heard of or =C2-considered so I usually am of no help to him whatsoever except to say =9Cthat=99s outside of my realm of knowledge Mike=94yer on your own there.=9D=C2-=C2- =C2 -=C2-I=99m a plain vanilla kind of Piet builder but Mike has a very creative mind and comes up with some very unique approaches to almost each part of the airplane.=C2-=C2- Bernard must be spinning rapidly in his grave:J=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- That=99s what homebuilding is all about tho=94we always learn something neat from other builders when they come up with new ideas or looks. =C2- An now I MUST get back to work as my boss will be checking in around 4 pm ! =C2- Mike C. =C2- =C2-


    Message 31


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:46:55 AM PST US
    Subject: fly-ins
    From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano@att.net>
    I tried to view the link to the Lee-bottom fly-in but it locks my computer up every time I try. sure sounds like a great one to attend.but a long way for me right now.I have till the 5th of October off and then have to go back to Working in Kansas.does anyone know about a good grass roots fly-in say 500 miles from Amarillo and happening in the next couple weeks? I'm sure ready for a fun trip but guess I'll get back out in the garage and work on the Piet. I just finished rigging a bellcrank linkage for my carb to the Corvair that should work a lot better than what I had. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262976#262976


    Message 32


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:52:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee
    From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen@gmail.com>
    Michael, On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: > You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully there will > be a few of them there, weather permitting. I'm definitely open to other designs, but given the theme I was definitely hoping to see one there. > May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently drawn to building > a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking. Fair question. No, I'm about 6 feet tall. This spring I cracked 230 pounds, but I hope to never be that heavy again; I'm hoping I'll be able to stay 215 and below. I was fairly interested in HummelBirds for a while, although I am very wary of the low gross weight capabilities. I attending their flyin-in at Bryan Ohio at sat in Mory's original Hummel Bird prototype. Morry Hummel, like many people (particularly pilots) born in the first half of the 20th century, was a short thin man with very skinny legs. I couldn't give enough clearance to move the stick and still be able to get to the throttle. I also sat in an HB built to the "new", slighly enlarged plans, and that was reasonable for me to sit in. I imagine I'll be able to fit in the back cockpit. It's just a matter that until I sit in a real one, I don't know much shoulder/elbow/rear-end room I'll have. I'd like to have that level of experience before I get mentally attached to the design. Thanks, Craig Steffen


    Message 33


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:11:53 AM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: humped center section
    Sorry for this repeat but I can't seem to find an earlier post that include d links to pictures of Piets with the raised or humped center section (tall er than the outboard wings). If anyone has those handy=2C I'd appreciate i t. Thanks. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not archive


    Message 34


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:22:10 AM PST US
    Subject: humped center section
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Oscar, You mean like these? http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 060617_03 1 .JPG&PhotoID=3474 http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Brussels%20 2 008_208.JPG&PhotoID=3955 <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 060617_0 3 1.JPG&PhotoID=3474> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 090621_21 3 .JPG&PhotoID=4092 http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 090621_20 9 .JPG&PhotoID=4093


    Message 35


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:41:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: humped center section
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Maybe this is it? (Courtesy of Bill C) http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=342 About halfway down the page.... HTH, Ryan do not archive On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote: > Sorry for this repeat but I can't seem to find an earlier post that > included links to pictures of Piets with the raised or humped center section > (taller than the outboard wings). If anyone has those handy, I'd appreciate > it. Thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > do not archive >


    Message 36


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:53:11 AM PST US
    Subject: humped center section
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's: http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html


    Message 37


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:12:19 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Lee Bottom Flying Field, Hanover, Indiana
    I just tried Raymond and the site came up fine. Give it another go. This is well worth going to. http://www.leebottom.com/


    Message 38


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:19:22 PM PST US
    From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
    Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
    Group, DO NOT ARCHIVE I've been lurking for some months now and have noted the increased activity on the list. One item regarding the DH Mosquito prompted me to re-read a portion of Geoffrey DeHavilland's autobiography, entitled SKY FEVER (ISBN 0 9063930 2 7). On page 158, he states: "The most significant feature of the Mosquito, of course, was its all-wood construction." "There is little difference in the weight of wood or metal aircraft when dealing with structures of the size of the Mosquito." On page 164: "Four to five Mosquitoes could be built for one of the heavy bombers, thus saving enormous effort, expense and man-hours. It caried a crew of only two, thus saving greater sums in training, and also saving lives. It was faster than any fighter, in fact it was the fastest warplane in the world for two and a half years. It could fill the role of any of the many military 'planes then existing. All these claims were fully borne out when the Mosquito went into actual Royal Air Force service in September 1941." "Span 54 feet, length 44.5 feet, total weight 22,587 lb., speed 425 miles per hour at 30,000 feet." On page 165: "The basic design of the 'plane remained more or less constant, as did the basic design of the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine, but the engine was called upon to give more and more power until by the end of the war it was developing more than twice the power of the original engine." SKY FEVER is an interesting read and I recommend it to those interested in aviation history in general and DH aircraft in particular. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Still flying my wooden Pietenpol CF-AUN in sunny Alberta, Canada--for nearly 39 years!) DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 39


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:23:58 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: humped center section
    Greg Cardinal also has a slight rise to his tank, but I don't have a picture. As I recall, he and Dale actually stretched fabric over that tank. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:52 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: humped center section Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's: http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html


    Message 40


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:44:59 PM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: Definitely not a home-built
    Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > Mikes rightI do lots of Piet posting here at work but my rigs are on > auto pilotJ (well actually they are) For us computer-types we always saying that our code is compiling: http://xkcd.com/303/ > > An now I MUST get back to work as my boss will be checking in around 4 pm ! w00t! I gave up on my so-called "friend" who's a tailwheel endorsed CFI and found another gentleman to help me get the 10 hours the friendly insurance company is requiring of me before I can take N8031 solo *grumble, grumble, grumble*. I, too, will be heading out at 4PM, but I'm off to the airport for a turn or 8 around the patch. Again, I say w00t! Dan PS back when I worked at Kitt Peak National Observatory in Tucson, I witnessed the shuttle coming home for a night landing in Florida. It was amazing. It started as the tiniest of pinpricks of light on the western horizon, like the glowing head of a match, that streaked across the night sky over the period of several minutes leaving a luminous green trail of triply-ionized oxygen that lingered for hours. Definitely one experience I'll never forget. -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. do not archive


    Message 41


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:13:46 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: humped center section
    Oscar, Here is a picture of Greg & Dale's Piet from WestCoastPiets.com. If you go the site and choose this picture you can enlarge the area in question. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: humped center section Sorry for this repeat but I can't seem to find an earlier post that included links to pictures of Piets with the raised or humped center section (taller than the outboard wings). If anyone has those handy, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not archive


    Message 42


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:52:56 PM PST US
    From: gcardinal@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: humped center section


    Message 43


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:26:13 PM PST US
    From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
    Subject: New Shirts and Stuff Available
    By popular demand (okay, just Jim Markle) I have added to the Half Fast Aviation design gallery. Now you too can be like an official "Bratman of Brodhead" and are welcome to Smell my Diary Air above the Glorious Cheddar Curtain. A variety of products are available including shirts, mugs and Sigg Water Bottles. Visit often and keep those suggestions coming in! http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com


    Message 44


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:42:27 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
    You just HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need t o talk to Mark C!! Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I worked on my ta nk this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a Pietenpol bui lding subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's really neat to finis h up some things that seem to take forever to figure out but finally all th e pieces come together. I've been working this tank thing over in my mind for months (years actually). My initial goal was to lighten up the tank an d found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far off from what an alum inum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum welding in the process and finally settled the issue. Pics of the filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached..... >From rainy Ottawa... jm You are too kind Ryan but I thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels written a check yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell a video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a =9Cwalk around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me an d sent me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped film. I threw in a video walk around as well and added bunches of old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should sel l those tapes=9D. The rest is history. And yes=94Jim Markle sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass mug or whatever turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too. You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS my 10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ???? Mike C.


    Message 45


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:53:24 PM PST US
    From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
    Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
    Graham, Thanks for the heads up. I ordered Sky Fever about an hour ago. Gene DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting > <ghans@cable-lynx.net> > > Group, DO NOT ARCHIVE > > I've been lurking for some months now and have noted the increased > activity > on the list. One item regarding the DH Mosquito prompted me to re-read a > portion of Geoffrey DeHavilland's autobiography, entitled SKY FEVER (ISBN > 0 > 9063930 2 7). > > On page 158, he states: > > "The most significant feature of the Mosquito, of course, was its all-wood > construction." > > "There is little difference in the weight of wood or metal aircraft when > dealing with structures of the size of the Mosquito." > > On page 164: > > "Four to five Mosquitoes could be built for one of the heavy bombers, thus > saving enormous effort, expense and man-hours. It caried a crew of only > two, > thus saving greater sums in training, and also saving lives. It was faster > than any fighter, in fact it was the fastest warplane in the world for two > and a half years. It could fill the role of any of the many military > 'planes > then existing. All these claims were fully borne out when the Mosquito > went > into actual Royal Air Force service in September 1941." > > "Span 54 feet, length 44.5 feet, total weight 22,587 lb., speed 425 miles > per hour at 30,000 feet." > > On page 165: > > "The basic design of the 'plane remained more or less constant, as did the > basic design of the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine, but the engine was called > upon to give more and more power until by the end of the war it was > developing more than twice the power of the original engine." > > SKY FEVER is an interesting read and I recommend it to those interested in > aviation history in general and DH aircraft in particular. > > Cheers, > > Graham Hansen > (Still flying my wooden Pietenpol CF-AUN in sunny Alberta, Canada--for > nearly 39 years!) > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05:51:00


    Message 46


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:17:33 PM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
    Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking order s on wing and head fuel tanks? Jim that's great! John In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: You just HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need to talk to Mark C!! Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I worked on my tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a Pietenpol building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's really neat to finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure out but finally all the pieces come together. I've been working this tank thing over in my mind for months (years actually). My initial goal was to lighten up the tank and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far off from what an aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum welding in the proces s and finally settled the issue. Pics of the filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached..... >From rainy Ottawa... jm You are too kind Ryan but I thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels writte n a check yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell a video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a =9Cwalk around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me and sent me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped film. I threw in a video walk around as well and added bunches of old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should sell those tapes=9D. The rest is history. And yes=94Jim Markle sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass mug or whatever turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too. You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS my 10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ???? Mike C.


    Message 47


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:40:31 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Jim M. welding aluminum
    You're my hero Jim-- welding aluminum is a difficult thing to do well. Looks like you've done well ! PS--did you install a threaded bushing from Wicks/ACS to accept the Tony Bingelis advised finger strainer at your point of drainage ? How many gallons will your tank hold ? Have you leak tested it ? I pressurized mine w/ the blower side of my shop vac and soaped it up--found a few leaks around the drain boss but the old hands at Valley City Airport had some stickem mixture that I slathered on it (some kind of two-part deal) and it hasn't leaked a drop of fuel yet. Don't forget to use the Bee's-Wax-like substance called Fuel Lube on all of your threads--no teflon tape in a/c fuel systems or paste. Again-- ala Tony B. You takes yer chances. Mike C.


    Message 48


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:42:04 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: New Shirts and Stuff Available
    You should make up a Facebook page for Halfast Aviation John and I'd be a 'fan' immediately. Mike C. ________________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann [jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com] Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Shirts and Stuff Available By popular demand (okay, just Jim Markle) I have added to the Half Fast Aviation design gallery. Now you too can be like an official "Bratman of Brodhead" and are welcome to Smell my Diary Air above the Glorious Cheddar Curtain. A variety of products are available including shirts, mugs and Sigg Water Bottles. Visit often and keep those suggestions coming in! http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com<mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>


    Message 49


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:49:01 PM PST US
    From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
    Craig The workshop goes everyday from about 9 am and someone is there till about 4 pm or later. There are no formal classes. We work on building real, usable parts. I don't know what our major project will be for next year, yet. I know we will be building Piet wing ribs ( 2 per day). We will choose a project in the late winter. It may be a Sky Scout fuselage but that is only if nobody else comes forward with a different project. There are generally at least 5 or more Piet builders on hand at any time. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Steffen" <craigsteffen@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Dick N. <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote: > I would like to weigh in on this. There has been an informal Piet builders > workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now. We can't actually call it that, > but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet > people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone. Hey, that's great information. I've been looking for an excuse to go to Sun-n-Fun anyway. Thanks! > That > has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved > with it. Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd. A couple of years ago it > was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial > Piet. We are open to projects and participation. If anyone has a project > to make some fast progress on let me know. I won't at that time, but if I haven't managed to get some up-close looks at wood-working, I'd definitely like to attend and offer my time in exchange for being able to work on something. So at Sun-and-Fun in Florida. Does it go all week, or are the specific times that it's scheduled to go on? I will keep that in mind for the spring, thanks a lot. Craig Steffen


    Message 50


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:49:35 PM PST US
    From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Vertical offset
    Can any members of the list send me photos of the offset vertical fin? I am searching for a photos-in guidence to making my vertical fin offset and the brackets! - Please email me directly... - kmheide - =0A=0A=0A


    Message 51


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:03:05 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Jim M. welding aluminum
    > >You're my hero Jim-- welding aluminum is a difficult thing to do well. Looks like you've done well ! Thank you. > >PS--did you install a threaded bushing from Wicks/ACS to accept the Tony Bingelis advised finger strainer at your point of drainage ? Now THAT'S a timely question! I just went online and ordered the aluminum weld fittings this evening! I already have the finger strainer on hand and will use it after I get the fitting welded on. >How many gallons will your tank hold ? Have you leak tested it ? I pressurized mine w/ the blower side of my shop vac and soaped >it up--found a few leaks around the drain boss but the old hands at Valley City Airport had some stickem mixture that I slathered on it >(some kind of two-part deal) and it hasn't leaked a drop of fuel yet. It will hold 11 or 12 gallons. Yes, I've leak tested it. It leaked. It was amazing how small the hole could be for it to leak! I finally figured out that using enough filler in the weld is critical. Re-welded one "leak" 3 times without success. Then did it one more time but this time added some more filler rod. That did it. >Don't forget to use the Bee's-Wax-like substance called Fuel Lube on all of your threads--no teflon tape in a/c fuel systems or paste. Again-- ala Tony B. I definitely won't use teflon tape but was going to use some Permatex thread sealant stuff. Any idea of that's the same type of stuff as fuel lube?


    Message 52


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:13:43 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
    Thank you John. Hey, I want to see the final product too! Actually, one thing I've learned about welding aluminum is that it will take MANY hours (years maybe) of practice to make a pretty AND solid TIG weld. Right now I'm happy with solid. So we'll see. Taking orders? Well, you never know! :-) jm -----Original Message----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Sep 14, 2009 7:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking orders on wing and head fuel tanks? Jim that's great! John In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: You just HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need to talk to Mark C!! Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I worked on my tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a Pietenpol building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's really neat to finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure out but finally all the pieces come together. I've been working this tank thing over in my mind for months (years actually). My initial goal was to lighten up the tank and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far off from what an aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum welding in the process and finally settled the issue. Pics of the filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached..... >From rainy Ottawa... jm You are too kind Ryan but I thank you and YESwhy havent some of your infidels written a check yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell a video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a walk around of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me and sent me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped film. I threw in a video walk around as well and added bunches of old video and he called me and said man, you should sell those tapes. The rest is history. And yesJim Markle sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass mug or whatever turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too. You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS my 10% cut on those second gen DVDs ???? Mike C.


    Message 53


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:18:18 PM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop Sun-N-Fun
    I always stop in to the woodworking shed when I'm at Sun-N-Fun. Although I only live a few hours away, I generally have a hard time getting over more than one day. For 2010 I'm hoping to have my Piet ready to take to Lakeland, and plan to take the week off. Its a great place to hang out. Usually lots of other things to do at Sun-N-Fun too Ben Dick N. wrote: > > Craig > The workshop goes everyday from about 9 am and someone is there till > about 4 pm or later. There are no formal classes. We work on > building real, usable parts. I don't know what our major project will > be for next year, yet. I know we will be building Piet wing ribs ( 2 > per day). We will choose a project in the late winter. It may be a > Sky Scout fuselage but that is only if nobody else comes forward with > a different project. There are generally at least 5 or more Piet > builders on hand at any time. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Steffen" > <craigsteffen@gmail.com> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >


    Message 54


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:40:32 PM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
    put me in line for first! and keep up the great work John In a message dated 9/14/2009 9:14:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com> Thank you John. Hey, I want to see the final product too! Actually, one thing I've learned about welding aluminum is that it will take MANY hours (years may be) of practice to make a pretty AND solid TIG weld. Right now I'm happy with solid. So we'll see. Taking orders? Well, you never know! :-) jm -----Original Message----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Sep 14, 2009 7:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking orders on wing and head fuel tanks? Jim that's great! John In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: You just HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need to talk to Mark C!! Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I worked on my tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back int o a Pietenpol building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's really neat to finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure out but finally all the pieces come together. I've been working this tank thing over in my mind for months (years actually). My initial goal was to lighten up the tank and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't tha t far off from what an aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum welding in the process and finally settled the issue. Pics of the filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached..... >From rainy Ottawa... jm You are too kind Ryan but I thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels writte n a check yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell a video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a =9Cwalk around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me and sent me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped film. I threw in a video walk around as well and added bunches of old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should sell those tapes=9D. The rest is history. And yes=94Jim Markle sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass mug or whatever turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too. You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS my 10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ???? Mike C. ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========


    Message 55


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:42:58 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    Micheal Cuy, I plan on going to the Lee Bottom flyin weather permitting I don't know how much trouble it is but bring one of your CD's and I'll bring a 20 dollar bill. Is that correct? 20 dollars? I'll wear my Jim Beam hat. Russell On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Craig Steffen <craigsteffen@gmail.com>wrote: > craigsteffen@gmail.com> > > Michael, > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC > Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: > > > You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully > there will > > be a few of them there, weather permitting. > > I'm definitely open to other designs, but given the theme I was > definitely hoping to see one there. > > > May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently > drawn to building > > a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking. > > Fair question. No, I'm about 6 feet tall. This spring I cracked 230 > pounds, but I hope to never be that heavy again; I'm hoping I'll be > able to stay 215 and below. > > I was fairly interested in HummelBirds for a while, although I am very > wary of the low gross weight capabilities. I attending their flyin-in > at Bryan Ohio at sat in Mory's original Hummel Bird prototype. Morry > Hummel, like many people (particularly pilots) born in the first half > of the 20th century, was a short thin man with very skinny legs. I > couldn't give enough clearance to move the stick and still be able to > get to the throttle. I also sat in an HB built to the "new", slighly > enlarged plans, and that was reasonable for me to sit in. > > I imagine I'll be able to fit in the back cockpit. It's just a matter > that until I sit in a real one, I don't know much > shoulder/elbow/rear-end room I'll have. I'd like to have that level > of experience before I get mentally attached to the design. > > Thanks, > > Craig Steffen > >


    Message 56


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:11:48 PM PST US
    From: Matt Keyes <keyesmp@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 09/12/09
    Since Brodhead is already a great annual gathering of Piet specific aircraf t complete with good food, forums and comroderie, why not look at organizin g a forum or-hands on workshop for new or wood be (spelling pun intention al) Piet builders.- Then they can walk around the field and gauwk like ev eryone else at the finished Piets that flew in.- I can think of no better motivator or setting. - Matt Keyes, Richland Center, WI --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics .com> wrote: From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 09/12/09 * ======================== ---Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =html&Chapter 09-09-12&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =txt&Chapter 09-09-12&Archive=Pietenpol ====================== ---EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- - - - - - - - - - - - - ---Pietenpol-List Dig est Archive - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - ---Total Messages Posted Sat 09/1 2/09: 27 - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- - ---1. 08:23 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges- (steven sadler) - ---2. 08:42 AM - Piet builders' workshop- (Oscar Zuniga) - ---3. 09:31 AM - Windshields- (skellytown flyer) - ---4. 09:36 AM - Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkos h? YES- (Craig Steffen) - ---5. 09:43 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Gary Boothe) - ---6. 10:16 AM - Re: Windshields- (Jim Markle) - ---7. 11:16 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (amsafetyc@aol.co m) - ---8. 12:19 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) - ---9. 12:24 PM - Re: Windshields- (Gary Boothe) - - 10. 12:54 PM - Re: Sport Aviation- (Robert Ray) - - 11. 01:29 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (airlion) - - 12. 01:35 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (H RULE) - - 13. 01:54 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (amsafetyc@aol.com) - - 14. 03:34 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Michael McGowan) - - 15. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation- (Jack Phillips) - - 16. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation- (amsafetyc@aol.com) - - 17. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation- (Lagowski Morrow) - - 18. 06:42 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Dick N.) - - 19. 06:48 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (regchief) - - 20. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Jack Phillips) - - 21. 07:12 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Jim) - - 22. 08:41 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting- (Mike Whaley) - - 23. 09:42 PM - Re: Sport Aviation- (Mike Whaley) - - 24. 09:42 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting- (Robert Ray) - - 25. 11:13 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation- (Robert Ray) - - 26. 11:13 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting- (Mike Tunnicliffe) - - 27. 11:13 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine- (Rob ert Ray) ________________________________- Message 1- __________________________ ___________ Time: 08:23:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges From: steven sadler <steven244sadler@gmail.com> Shad, Thanks for the info. It sure is nice to get feedback from the community of builders. I have my 2" hinges on order now. Again, Thanks Steve On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:55 AM, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I believe Dad's aileron hinges are 2" as well, however I believe his are > the rolled type, not extruded.- I know the extruded are the recomended type, > but the only time I saw them unroll was when I was in a full power dive a t > 400mph in a flour bombing contest...ha ha ha.- Either one will work on a > piet, just keep them streight when you drill the screw holes or they will > bind up when moved. > > Sometimes even with speed, Less is more. Less speed, less money, more > longevity, > > Shad > > * > > * > > ________________________________- Message 2- __________________________ ___________ Time: 08:42:39 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a couple of times a year at different venues, mostly for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce behind it.- Would people come to such an event? The big builders' workshops have both east and west coast venues due to the high interest in some of the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air Camper interest would be high enough for more than one such event in any given year, and it would probably be held in Florida or California. I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely since I am not particularly crafty), and that a group setting would not really interest too many of the type of people who want to build Piets. Comments? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________- Message 3- __________________________ ___________ Time: 09:31:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano@att.net> Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a cou ple weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the winds hields done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I ha ve seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in flyi ng behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turb ulence yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appre ciate some advice. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705 ________________________________- Message 4- __________________________ ___________ Time: 09:36:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen@gmail.com> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrot e: > Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft > Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a > couple of times a year at different venues, mostly > for things like the Zenith and RV. The SportAir workshops cover some other of the basic building techniques.- They have one for composite, and another for fabric covering, in addition to sheet metal. >Let's suppose > someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop > and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce > behind it. Would people come to such an event? If it was in the middle third of the country, I would. >I doubt that the Air > Camper interest would be high enough for more than > one such event in any given year, and it would > probably be held in Florida or California. Well, Florida's doable for me.- California means flying, so I'd have to decide if it's worth the extra hundreds of dollars to go to one there. > I'm not offering to arrange such an event; Ah...there's the issue.- To make something like this fly, someone has to put shoulder to the wheel and make it happen.- Beyond that, someone else has to make the commitment to deliver building materials. Someone else again has to agree to teach it and come up with enough exercises. > I'm just > wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset > as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. I for one would like to do a weekend's worth of building a wing rib or two before putting money down on plans for Pietenpol or some such.- If one were offered, say, in the next year and a half, I'd definitely be interested. My take: I think that a Pietenpol-specific workship is a mistake.- What people really want to do is spend a weekend learning the techniques to build a wood airplane, and to see if they like it.- So cutting wood into capstrips and the like, building a rib, varnishing, sanding, and whatever else it is that you do.- Any wood airplanes are going to have all those same steps, so there's no reason to specialize the workshop. I think the best chance to make something like this happen is as follows.- Sportair is headquartered in Oshkosh, Wisonsin.- At the Oshkosh location and no other, they have the "Discover Aircraft Building" course. http://www.sportair.com/workshops/Discover Aircraft Building.html That course is four-courses in one over a weekend.- They do half a day each on wood construction, fabric covering, sheet metal and composite. I actually called- SportAir this last week asking about a wood construction course, and they told me that they didn't do it any more for lack of interest.- It might be worth asking them how many people would need to sign up for them to offer the course again.- They might be willing to do a one-off run of the course. SportAir does their workshops at Oshkosh in January; in 2010 it's going to be January 30 and 31.- The question then, is, how many folks on this list would sign up to take that course if they offered it.- If Sportair offered the wood construction course this coming January 30 and 31, at the same time as the other SportAir workshops, for, say, $250, would anyone on this list take it? I'm sort of interested in Pietenpols, and wood building in general. I would definitely take it. Craig Steffen southeast Kentucky ________________________________- Message 5- __________________________ ___________ Time: 09:43:35 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Oscar, Not that it's not a good idea, but I probably would not attend. We (N. California Pietenpol builders) are attacking from a different battle plan: We have so far gathered a loose list of about 12-14 builders, owners and interested individuals, who are all gathering for the first time next week on September 19. The meeting will be at a centrally located builder's house , Mike Weaver, where we will spend an inordinate amount of time "strategorizing" about how we will complete a large squadron of Pietenpols so that we can attack and over-run Brodhead. It's a complex battle plan, requiring individual effort, group co-ordination, and determination to make that long flight. I know you have a number of builders and owners in Texas, and could undoubtedly do something similar. We might consider joining forces, but we don't have a cool battle cry like, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!", but we might come up with something next weekend, like.... "SURF'S UP, DUDE!" Anyhow, like MC says, "I digress." The main thing is that it has been an enormous boost to me to have local builders who are friends and are good sources of info and assistance. This List is obviously that way, too, but there is nothing like face-to-face camaraderie. And, as you say, we are certainly individualists. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zunig a Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a couple of times a year at different venues, mostly for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce behind it.- Would people come to such an event? The big builders' workshops have both east and west coast venues due to the high interest in some of the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air Camper interest would be high enough for more than one such event in any given year, and it would probably be held in Florida or California. I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely since I am not particularly crafty), and that a group setting would not really interest too many of the type of people who want to build Piets. Comments? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________- Message 6- __________________________ ___________ Time: 10:16:52 AM PST US From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshields One of the best ideas I've seen is what Larry Prange up in NW Washington St ate did.... He cut several different size windshield patterns out of some kind of fairl y stiff posterboard.- He then started his Model A engine and sat inside the plane . While he was sitting there he held up the windshield patterns, tilted them, moved them around, etc, until he found a size and angle that gave him what he wanted for wind deflection. That does mean waiting until the engine is running but...why not?- The wi ndshield doesn't have to be done until the very end unless you want it sooner. That just seemed like a pretty neat idea to me.... Jim in NE Oklahoma -----Original Message----- >From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net> >Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields > > >Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a co uple weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the winds hields done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I ha ve seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in f lying behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turb ulence yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appre ciate some advice. Raymond > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705 > > ________________________________- Message 7- __________________________ ___________ Time: 11:16:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop From: amsafetyc@aol.com Oscar There are 3 groups of people in this People that have piets People building piets People interested in building Why go east and west Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can attend and n o one is required cross country Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin- by or through chicago by car or air There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no stinkin Bo x O Airplane- factory guy more like component guys are better wicks, ac spruc e craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henrob.- Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if they will lend or send- demo guys, i nstructors and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys. I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee. Naturally p art of the program will have to point towards intellectual issues like understa nding the prints, making inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a nationa l network of in process builders in the area to help out Just some thoughts Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and ho mbuilders sites will provide access to the larger market that do no know about this board. I believe the market is much larger than we really know. How's that for ideas and comment? John ------Original Message------ From: Oscar Zuniga Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a couple of times a year at different venues, mostly for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce behind it.- Would people come to such an event? The big builders' workshops have both east and west coast venues due to the high interest in some of the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air Camper interest would be high enough for more than one such event in any given year, and it would probably be held in Florida or California. I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely since I am not particularly crafty), and that a group setting would not really interest too many of the type of people who want to build Piets. Comments? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________- Message 8- __________________________ ___________ Time: 12:19:20 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Oscar, How about holding one in the Grand Republic of Texas? Centralized an d good weather. Heck their is an airport near SA that would be great. OR an alternative to a national meeting is what the Bonanza people do (I kn ow A spam can but a nice spam can) and that is to plan events in different regio ns. OR tie in with an EAA group and host an event that is focused on Pietenpol building skills that different homebuilders can attend. Blue Skies, Steve "The Good Idea Faery" D. Yes, I own a 1948 Beech Bonanza, It came as a kit, (that you disassembled, fixed and made parts and then reassembled.) 8T8 and working in Austin. ----- Original Message ----- From: amsafetyc@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop > > Oscar > > There are 3 groups of people in this > > People that have piets > People building piets > People interested in building > > Why go east and west > > Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can > attend and no one is required cross country > > Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin by or through chicago > by car or air > > There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no > stinkin Box O Airplane factory guy more like component guys are > better wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller > electric, henrob. Guys that stand to make a buck from piet > builders and see if they will lend or send demo guys, instructors > and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys. > > I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee. > Naturally part of the program will have to point towards > intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making > inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a national network > of in process builders in the area to help out > > Just some thoughts > > Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, > POA and hombuilders sites will provide access to the larger market > that do no know about this board. I believe the market is much > larger than we really know. > > How's that for ideas and comment? > > John > ------Original Message------ > From: Oscar Zuniga > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > To: Pietenpol builders Board > ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board > Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop > > > > Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft > Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a > couple of times a year at different venues, mostly > for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose > someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop > and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce > behind it. Would people come to such an event? > > The big builders' workshops have both east and west > coast venues due to the high interest in some of > the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air > Camper interest would be high enough for more than > one such event in any given year, and it would > probably be held in Florida or California. > > I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just > wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset > as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. > My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and > personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely > since I am not particularly crafty), and that a > group setting would not really interest too many of > the type of people who want to build Piets. > > Comments? > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > ________________________________- Message 9- __________________________ ___________ Time: 12:24:06 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Windshields Raymond, Sounds to me a lot like picking a woman... But, Jim may have just posted the end-all, be-all post on the matter! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshields One of the best ideas I've seen is what Larry Prange up in NW Washington State did.... He cut several different size windshield patterns out of some kind of fairl y stiff posterboard.- He then started his Model A engine and sat inside the plane.- While he was sitting there he held up the windshield patterns, tilted them, moved them around, etc, until he found a size and angle that gave him what he wanted for wind deflection. That does mean waiting until the engine is running but...why not?- The windshield doesn't have to be done until the very end unless you want it sooner. That just seemed like a pretty neat idea to me.... Jim in NE Oklahoma -----Original Message----- >From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net> >Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields > > >Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a couple weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get th e windshields done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I have seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in flying behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turbulence yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appreciate some advice. Raymond > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705 > > ________________________________- Message 10- _________________________ ___________ Time: 12:54:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> Oh I see well they are going to hear from me if they want my 50 dollars they'll have to do better than that! Russell On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Darrel Jones <wd6bor@vom.com> wrote: > > AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote: > >> Mike, >>- Don't hold back tell us what you really think. Maybe you should go to the >> assertiveness training class also. No sense letting the message get lost by >> being timid.---John >>---Do not archive >> * >> * >> > Aw, Mike, don't sugar coat it. Tell it like it really is. > > I was also very disappointed that the Pietenpols didn't get a feature > article for the 80th anniversary. They can make it up in the next issue o nly > if they have the feature article AND also put a Pietenpol on the front co ver > again. > > Darrel > > ________________________________- Message 11- _________________________ ___________ Time: 01:29:44 PM PST US From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Now if we can just get some of those northern piets to come south to georgi a or texas we could have some great fun. I have been to C37 3 times and it is gr eat and they do a wonderful job.- I suggest Carrolton, Ga. because the have a great facility. That is where the Big Piet buillders are . I am just south of the re in Lagrange, and besides me there are two others building. How about it pie ters? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.- PS I am getting tire d of trying to read some of the listings. Is that what they call texting? Or do some of the listers are just trying to be funny? I don't understand half of it since I am kind of slow. Cheers, Gardiner Mason.---"GEORGIA ON MY MIND" ----- Original Message ---- From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:33:51 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Oscar, Not that it's not a good idea, but I probably would not attend. We (N. California Pietenpol builders) are attacking from a different battle plan: We have so far gathered a loose list of about 12-14 builders, owners and interested individuals, who are all gathering for the first time next week on September 19. The meeting will be at a centrally located builder's house , Mike Weaver, where we will spend an inordinate amount of time "strategorizing" about how we will complete a large squadron of Pietenpols so that we can attack and over-run Brodhead. It's a complex battle plan, requiring individual effort, group co-ordination, and determination to make that long flight. I know you have a number of builders and owners in Texas, and could undoubtedly do something similar. We might consider joining forces, but we don't have a cool battle cry like, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!", but we might come up with something next weekend, like.... "SURF'S UP, DUDE!" Anyhow, like MC says, "I digress." The main thing is that it has been an enormous boost to me to have local builders who are friends and are good sources of info and assistance. This List is obviously that way, too, but there is nothing like face-to-face camaraderie. And, as you say, we are certainly individualists. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zunig a Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a couple of times a year at different venues, mostly for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce behind it.- Would people come to such an event? The big builders' workshops have both east and west coast venues due to the high interest in some of the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air Camper interest would be high enough for more than one such event in any given year, and it would probably be held in Florida or California. I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely since I am not particularly crafty), and that a group setting would not really interest too many of the type of people who want to build Piets. Comments? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________- Message 12- _________________________ ___________ Time: 01:35:22 PM PST US From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Don't forget those that have GN-1 Aircampers and like to call them piets= 0A =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "amsafetyc@a ol.com" <a msafetyc@aol.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol builders Board <pietenpol-list@matronic s. com>=0ASent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:15:59 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pie tenp amsafetyc@aol.com=0A=0AOscar=0A=0AThere are 3 groups of people in t his=0A =0APeople that have piets=0APeople building piets=0APeople interested in bu ilding=0A=0AWhy go east and west=0A=0AWhy not one event in the midd le of th e country so everyone can attend and no one is required cross country=0A =0A Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin- by or through chicago by car or air=0A=0AThere are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't ne ed no stinkin Box O Airplane- factory guy more like component guys are bette r wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henr ob.- Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if they wi ll lend or send- demo guys, instructors and class practice supplies and o r displays with answer guys. =0A=0AI wonder how many would be intereste d in that for a modest fee. Naturally part of the program will have to point to wards intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a national network of in process builde rs in the area to help out=0A=0AJust some thoughts=0A=0AAlso not al l builde rs know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and hombuilders sites wil l provide access to the larger market that do no know about this board. I b elieve the market is much larger than we really know. =0A=0AHow's that for ideas and comment?=0A=0AJohn=0A------Original Message------=0AFrom: Oscar Z uniga=0ASender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0ATo: Pietenp ol b uilders Board=0AReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board=0ASent: Sep 12, 2009 11:2 9 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop=0A=0A--> Piet enpol- List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>=0A=0A=0A Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft=0ASpruce, and others hold bui lders' workshops a=0Acouple of times a year at different venues, mostly =0Af or things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose=0Asomeone organized an A ir Camper builders' workshop=0Aand got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircra ft Spruce=0Abehind it.- Would people come to such an event?=0A=0AThe big bu ilders' workshops have both east and west=0Acoast venues due to the high in terest in some of=0Athe plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air=0 AC amper interest would be high enough for more than=0Aone such event in any g iven year, and it would=0Aprobably be held in Florida or California.=0A =0AI 'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just=0Awondering if scratch b uilders are of the same mindset=0Aas kit builders in wanting to attend a gr oup workshop.=0AMy opinion is that we are mostly individualists and=0Ap erso nal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely=0Asince I am not particu la rly crafty), and that a=0Agroup setting would not really interest too man y of=0Athe type of people who want to build Piets.=0A=0AComments?=0A =0AOscar Zuniga=0AAir Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio, TX=0Amailto: taildrags@hotm ail.co m=0Awebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0ASent from my = ________________________________- Message 13- _________________________ ___________ Time: 01:54:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop From: amsafetyc@aol.com QWN0dWFsbHkgSSBmaWd1cmVkIHRoZSB0b28gd2VyZSBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBncm91cC4gSSBhbSB u b3QgZ29pbmcgdG8gZXhjbHVkZSB0aGVtIEkgd291bGQgcmF0aGVyIHRoZXkgZGlkIHBhcnRpY2l w YXRlIGFuZCB0aGUgNjEyIHJpYiBndXlzDQoNCkpvaG4NClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFd p cmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEg g UlVMRSA8aGFydmV5LnJ1bGVAcm9nZXJzLmNvbT4NCg0KRGF0ZTogU2F0LCAxMiBTZXAgMjAwOSA x MzozNDozMCANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJ l OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogUGlldCBidWlsZGVycycgd29ya3Nob3ANCg0KDQpEb24ndCBmb3J n ZXQgdGhvc2UgdGhhdCBoYXZlIEdOLTEgQWlyY2FtcGVycyBhbmQgbGlrZSB0byBjYWxsIHRoZW0 g cGlldHMNCg0KDQoNCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCkZyb206ICJ h bXNhZmV0eWNAYW9sLmNvbSIgPGFtc2FmZXR5Y0Bhb2wuY29tPg0KVG86IFBpZXRlbnBvbCBidWl s ZGVycyBCb2FyZCA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClNlbnQ6IFNhdHVyZGF 5 LCBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMTIsIDIwMDkgMjoxNTo1OSBQTQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1 M aXN0OiBQaWV0IGJ1aWxkZXJzJyB3b3Jrc2hvcA0KDQotLT4gUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QgbWVzc2F n ZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IGFtc2FmZXR5Y0Bhb2wuY29tDQoNCk9zY2FyDQoNClRoZXJlIGFyZSAzIGd y b3VwcyBvZiBwZW9wbGUgaW4gdGhpcw0KDQpQZW9wbGUgdGhhdCBoYXZlIHBpZXRzDQpQZW9wbGU g YnVpbGRpbmcgcGlldHMNClBlb3BsZSBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIGJ1aWxkaW5nDQoNCldoeSBnbyB l YXN0IGFuZCB3ZXN0DQoNCldoeSBub3Qgb25lIGV2ZW50IGluIHRoZSBtaWRkbGUgb2YgdGhlIGN v dW50cnkgc28gZXZlcnlvbmUgY2FuIGF0dGVuZCBhbmQgbm8gb25lIGlzIHJlcXVpcmVkIGNyb3N z IGNvdW50cnkNCg0KTW9zdCBhbnlvbmUgY2FuIGdldCB0byBpbmRpYW5hIG9yIFdpc2NvbnNpbqA g Ynkgb3IgdGhyb3VnaCBjaGljYWdvIGJ5IGNhciBvciBhaXINCg0KVGhlcmUgYXJlIGVub3VnaCB i dWlsZGVycyB0byB0ZWFjaCB0aGUgc2Vzc2lvbnMgc28gZG9uJ3QgbmVlZCBubyBzdGlua2luIEJ v eCBPIEFpcnBsYW5loCBmYWN0b3J5IGd1eSBtb3JlIGxpa2UgY29tcG9uZW50IGd1eXMgYXJlIGJ l dHRlciB3aWNrcywgYWMgc3BydWNlIGNyYWZ0c21hbiwgcm95YmUsIHN0ZXdhcnQgc3lzdGVtcyw g bWlsbGVyIGVsZWN0cmljLCBoZW5yb2IuoCBHdXlzIHRoYXQgc3RhbmQgdG8gbWFrZSBhIGJ1Y2s g ZnJvbSBwaWV0IGJ1aWxkZXJzIGFuZCBzZWUgaWYgdGhleSB3aWxsIGxlbmQgb3Igc2VuZKAgZGV t byBndXlzLCBpbnN0cnVjdG9ycyBhbmQgY2xhc3MgcHJhY3RpY2Ugc3VwcGxpZXMgYW5kIG9yIGR p c3BsYXlzIHdpdGggYW5zd2VyIGd1eXMuIA0KDQpJIHdvbmRlciBob3cgbWFueSB3b3VsZCBiZSB p bnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIHRoYXQgZm9yIGEgbW9kZXN0IGZlZS4gTmF0dXJhbGx5IHBhcnQgb2YgdGh l IHByb2dyYW0gd2lsbCBoYXZlIHRvIHBvaW50IHRvd2FyZHMgaW50ZWxsZWN0dWFsIGlzc3VlcyB s aWtlIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgdGhlIHByaW50cywgbWFraW5nIGluZmVyZW50aWFsIGRlY2lzaW9 u cywgcHJlIGJ1aWxkIGRlY2lzaW9ucyBhbmQgYSBuYXRpb25hbCBuZXR3b3JrIG9mIGluIHByb2N l c3MgYnVpbGRlcnMgaW4gdGhlIGFyZWEgdG8gaGVscCBvdXQNCg0KSnVzdCBzb21lIHRob3VnaHR z DQoNCkFsc28gbm90IGFsbCBidWlsZGVycyBrbm93IHRoaXMgc2l0ZSBzbyBhZHZlcnRpc2luZyB v biB0aGUgQU9QQSwgUE9BIGFuZCBob21idWlsZGVycyBzaXRlcyB3aWxsIHByb3ZpZGUgYWNjZXN z IHRvIHRoZSBsYXJnZXIgbWFya2V0IHRoYXQgZG8gbm8ga25vdyBhYm91dCB0aGlzIGJvYXJkLiB J IGJlbGlldmUgdGhlIG1hcmtldCBpcyBtdWNoIGxhcmdlciB0aGFuIHdlIHJlYWxseSBrbm93LiA N Cg0KSG93J3MgdGhhdCBmb3IgaWRlYXMgYW5kIGNvbW1lbnQ/DQoNCkpvaG4NCi0tLS0tLU9yaWd p bmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IE9zY2FyIFp1bmlnYQ0KU2VuZGVyOiBvd25lci1waWV 0 ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KVG86IFBpZXRlbnBvbCBidWlsZGVycyB C b2FyZA0KUmVwbHlUbzogUGlldGVucG9sIGJ1aWxkZXJzIEJvYXJkDQpTZW50OiBTZXAgMTIsIDI w MDkgMTE6MjkgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBQaWV0IGJ1aWxkZXJzJyB3b3J r c2hvcA0KDQotLT4gUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IE9zY2FyIFp1bml n YSA8dGFpbGRyYWdzQGhvdG1haWwuY29tPg0KDQoNCldlbGwsIGxldCdzIGFpciBvdXQgYW4gaWR l YSwgdGhlbi6gIEVBQSwgQWlyY3JhZnQNClNwcnVjZSwgYW5kIG90aGVycyBob2xkIGJ1aWxkZXJ z JyB3b3Jrc2hvcHMgYQ0KY291cGxlIG9mIHRpbWVzIGEgeWVhciBhdCBkaWZmZXJlbnQgdmVudWV z LCBtb3N0bHkNCmZvciB0aGluZ3MgbGlrZSB0aGUgWmVuaXRoIGFuZCBSVi6gIExldCdzIHN1cHB v c2UNCnNvbWVvbmUgb3JnYW5pemVkIGFuIEFpciBDYW1wZXIgYnVpbGRlcnMnIHdvcmtzaG9wDQp h bmQgZ290IHNvbWVvbmUgbGlrZSBFQUEsIFdpY2tzLCBvciBBaXJjcmFmdCBTcHJ1Y2UNCmJlaGl u ZCBpdC6gIFdvdWxkIHBlb3BsZSBjb21lIHRvIHN1Y2ggYW4gZXZlbnQ/DQoNClRoZSBiaWcgYnV p bGRlcnMnIHdvcmtzaG9wcyBoYXZlIGJvdGggZWFzdCBhbmQgd2VzdA0KY29hc3QgdmVudWVzIGR 1 ZSB0byB0aGUgaGlnaCBpbnRlcmVzdCBpbiBzb21lIG9mDQp0aGUgcGxhbmUtaW4tYS1ib3ggZGV z aWducy6gIEkgZG91YnQgdGhhdCB0aGUgQWlyDQpDYW1wZXIgaW50ZXJlc3Qgd291bGQgYmUgaGl n aCBlbm91Z2ggZm9yIG1vcmUgdGhhbg0Kb25lIHN1Y2ggZXZlbnQgaW4gYW55IGdpdmVuIHllYXI s IGFuZCBpdCB3b3VsZA0KcHJvYmFibHkgYmUgaGVsZCBpbiBGbG9yaWRhIG9yIENhbGlmb3JuaWE u DQoNCkknbSBub3Qgb2ZmZXJpbmcgdG8gYXJyYW5nZSBzdWNoIGFuIGV2ZW50OyBJJ20ganVzdA0 K d29uZGVyaW5nIGlmIHNjcmF0Y2ggYnVpbGRlcnMgYXJlIG9mIHRoZSBzYW1lIG1pbmRzZXQNCmF z IGtpdCBidWlsZGVycyBpbiB3YW50aW5nIHRvIGF0dGVuZCBhIGdyb3VwIHdvcmtzaG9wLg0KTXk g b3BpbmlvbiBpcyB0aGF0IHdlIGFyZSBtb3N0bHkgaW5kaXZpZHVhbGlzdHMgYW5kDQpwZXJzb25 h bCBjcmFmdHNtZW4gKGFuZCBJIHVzZSB0aGF0IHRlcm0gYSBiaXQgbG9vc2VseQ0Kc2luY2UgSSB h bSBub3QgcGFydGljdWxhcmx5IGNyYWZ0eSksIGFuZCB0aGF0IGENCmdyb3VwIHNldHRpbmcgd29 1 bGQgbm90IHJlYWxseSBpbnRlcmVzdCB0b28gbWFueSBvZg0KdGhlIHR5cGUgb2YgcGVvcGxlIHd o byB3YW50IHRvIGJ1aWxkIFBpZXRzLg0KDQpDb21tZW50cz8NCg0KT3NjYXIgWnVuaWdhDQpBaXI g Q2FtcGVyIE5YNDFDQw0KU2FuIEFudG9uaW8sIFRYDQptYWlsdG86IHRhaWxkcmFnc0Bob3RtYWl s LmNvbQ0Kd2Vic2l0ZSBhdCBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmZseXNxdWlycmVsLm5ldA0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0 K U2VudCBmcm9tIG15ID09PQ0KDQo ________________________________- Message 14- _________________________ ___________ Time: 03:34:51 PM PST US From: "Michael McGowan" <shadetree@socket.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Maybe Wicks would sponser a workshop at their place. They have the wood, they have the equipment, they have the woodworking expertise,- and we could all pick up wood and supplies while we were there and they would make money. We would also get to see some really neat pipe organs and how they build them. Mike just getting started - ----- Original Message ----- - From: amsafetyc@aol.com - To: Pietenpol builders Board - Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:52 PM - Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop - Actually I figured the too were part of the group. I am not going to exclude them I would rather they did participate and the 612 rib guys - John - Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- - From: H RULE - Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:34:30 -0700 (PDT) - To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> - Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop - Don't forget those that have GN-1 Aircampers and like to call them piets ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- - From: "amsafetyc@aol.com" <amsafetyc@aol.com> - To: Pietenpol builders Board <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> - Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:15:59 PM - Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop - Oscar - There are 3 groups of people in this - People that have piets - People building piets - People interested in building - Why go east and west - Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can attend and no one is required cross country - Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin- by or through chicago by car or air - There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no stinkin Box O Airplane- factory guy more like component guys are better wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henrob.- Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if they will lend or send- demo guys, instructors and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys. - I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee. Naturally part of the program will have to point towards intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a national network of in process builders in the area to help out - Just some thoughts - Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and hombuilders sites will provide access to the larger market that do no know about this board. I believe the market is much larger than we really know. - How's that for ideas and comment? - John - ------Original Message------ - From: Oscar Zuniga - Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com - To: Pietenpol builders Board - ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board - Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM - Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop <taildrags@hotmail.com> - Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft - Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a - couple of times a year at different venues, mostly - for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose - someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop - and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce - behind it.- Would people come to such an event? - The big builders' workshops have both east and west - coast venues due to the high interest in some of - the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air - Camper interest would be high enough for more than - one such event in any given year, and it would - probably be held in Florida or California. - I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just - wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset - as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. - My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and - personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely - since I am not particularly crafty), and that a - group setting would not really interest too many of - the type of people who want to build Piets. - Comments? - Oscar Zuniga - Air Camper NX41CC - San Antonio, TX - mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com - website at http://www.flysquirrel.net - Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlList" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=" http://forums.matronics.com/" nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== =B7=9B~=89=ED=B2,=DE=03g('=8A=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE ________________________________- Message 15- _________________________ ___________ Time: 05:43:12 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to Tom Poberezny: Tom Poberezny President, Experimental Aircraft Association P.O. Box 3086 Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086 --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - -- August 3rd, 2009 Dear Mr. Poberezny, I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membershi p to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.- I understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this news, a s I'm sure did a majority of the membership. I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors. Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was t hat I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review. On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at the end of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuil t Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to celebr ate the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd man out (which was me) did not get to fly. I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time t o be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is unclea r to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EAA ha s demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particularly plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so w e get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention. I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board . I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure, expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.- I am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program. However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft , preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is stil l the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association. Sincerely, Jack Phillips EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003) Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture 2005) cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter , without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it): Jack, Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future, and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and a t the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings. Please know that your thoughts are important. Regards, Tom Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000 Chairman of the Board & President EAA-The Spirit of Aviation Phone: 920.426.4810 Fax: 920.426.4878 www.eaa.org See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010 Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do think i t is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV. Jack Phillips NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stand s for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified, factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.- I realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely hav e no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first visit to Oshkosh, an! d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the worl d where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft , in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few). Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small place for only one week of the year. It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592 ________________________________- Message 16- _________________________ ___________ Time: 05:58:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation From: amsafetyc@aol.com Jack Well done it appears to me that the EAA is now upside down in its approach to honoring its roots which should always be first and the centerpiece. Without wilbur and orvile there would be no piper jet or big honkin airbus 380. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to Tom Poberezny: Tom Poberezny President, Experimental Aircraft Association P.O. Box 3086 Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - August 3rd, 2009 Dear Mr. Poberezny, I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membershi p to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.- I understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this news, a s I'm sure did a majority of the membership. I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors. Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was t hat I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review. On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at the end of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuil t Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to celebr ate the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd man out (which was me) did not get to fly. I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time t o be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is unclea r to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EAA ha s demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particularly plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so w e get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention. I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board . I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure, expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.- I am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program. However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft , preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is stil l the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association. Sincerely, Jack Phillips EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003) Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture 2005) cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter , without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it): Jack, Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future, and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and a t the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings. Please know that your thoughts are important. Regards, Tom Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000 Chairman of the Board & President EAA-The Spirit of Aviation Phone: 920.426.4810 Fax: 920.426.4878 www.eaa.org See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010 Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do think i t is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV. Jack Phillips NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet" Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stand s for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified, factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.- I realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely hav e no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first visit to Oshkosh, an! d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the worl d where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft , in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few). Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small place for only one week of the year. It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592 ________________________________- Message 17- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:21:35 PM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb@charter.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation Jack, Thank you for your thoughtful and to the point comments!--Jim Lagowsk i ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation > <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to > Tom Poberezny: > > Tom Poberezny > President, Experimental Aircraft Association > P.O. Box 3086 > Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086 > August 3rd, > 2009 > Dear Mr. Poberezny, > > I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft > Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the members hip > to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is > heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that > resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.- I > understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try > to > get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this news, as > I'm sure did a majority of the membership. > > I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with > its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on > homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back > seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors. > > Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to > Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over th e > mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was > that > I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review. > On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end o f > 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two > hour > pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at th e > end > of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the > Homebuilt > Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to > celebrate > the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd ma n > out > (which was me) did not get to fly. > > I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was > flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time > to > be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is uncl ear > to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EAA has > demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particular ly > plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so > we > get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention. > > I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as > President > of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the > Board. > I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure, > expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. - I > am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program. > However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your > successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental > aircraft, > preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currentl y > building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is > much > richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is st ill > the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association. > > Sincerely, > > > Jack Phillips > EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award > 2003) > Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture > 2005) > > cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones > > > To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the > letter, > without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it): > > Jack, > > Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its > future, > and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid > comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the > organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at > the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to > do > better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, an d Joe > Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings. > Please know that your thoughts are important. > > Regards, > > Tom > > > Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000 > Chairman of the Board & President > EAA-The Spirit of Aviation > Phone: 920.426.4810 > Fax: 920.426.4878 > > www.eaa.org > > See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010 > > Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davi s > on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do think it > is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft > Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet" > Raleigh, NC > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill > Church > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation > > <billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. > The > "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it > stands > for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified, > factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there > is > a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus > definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, > and > that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization. > I > realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely > have > no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and woul d > much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - > and > as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, > the > virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the > North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first > visit to Oshkosh, an! > d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT > connected > to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not > manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it > ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the > world > where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily > airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird > aircraft, > in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkos h > can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few) . > Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of > co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small > place for only one week of the year. > It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in > the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going t o > play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an > article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because > they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they > needed > a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592 > > > ________________________________- Message 18- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:42:01 PM PST US From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop I would like to weigh in on this.- There has been an informal Piet builde rs workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now.- We can't actually call it that , but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone.- Tha t has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved with it.- Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd.- A couple of years ag o it was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial Piet.- We are open to projects and participation.- If anyone has a proj ect to make some fast progress on let me know. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a couple of times a year at different venues, mostly for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce behind it.- Would people come to such an event? The big builders' workshops have both east and west coast venues due to the high interest in some of the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air Camper interest would be high enough for more than one such event in any given year, and it would probably be held in Florida or California. I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely since I am not particularly crafty), and that a group setting would not really interest too many of the type of people who want to build Piets. Comments? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________- Message 19- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:48:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet builders' workshop From: "regchief" <kbosley@comcast.net> how about someone just producing a good video series. I would love to see s ome training vids on piet building. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262743#262743 ________________________________- Message 20- _________________________ ___________ Time: 06:54:33 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet builders' workshop Buy Mike Cuy's excellent video on building and flying his Piet.- You can get it at:- http://www.flyingwood.com/NX48MC.htm It is almost as useful as the set of 4 Tony Bingelis books. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of regchief Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet builders' workshop how about someone just producing a good video series. I would love to see some training vids on piet building. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262743#262743 ________________________________- Message 21- _________________________ ___________ Time: 07:12:19 PM PST US From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop Oscar; Why not tie an event like a Piet "wood" builders event in with Copperstate at Casa Grande, AZ in- October? This Oct may be too soon (or not) but next year g ives 13 months to plan and organize it. Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair On Sep 12, 2009, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote: Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a couple of times a year at different venues, mostly for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce behind it. Would people come to such an event? The big builders' workshops have both east and west coast venues due to the high interest in some of the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air Camper interest would be high enough for more than one such event in any given year, and it would probably be held in Florida or California. I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop. My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely since I am not particularly crafty), and that a group setting would not really interest too many of the type of people who want to build Piets. Comments? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________- Message 22- _________________________ ___________ Time: 08:41:43 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-attack aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco) it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased there :) Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though... Mike Whaley MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens t o be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know" information. Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at ou r EAA meeting the other night. Shad ________________________________- Message 23- _________________________ ___________ Time: 09:42:00 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation Jack et al, I certainly think that many folks agree, in all or part, with many of your points and concerns. But to be fair, let's not forget that in the past year or so, EAA has launched the new "Experimenter" newsletter, which is very much oriented towards the scratch-builder/experimental aspects... and bette r yet, has made it available to all who want it, not just EAA members. EAA, a s wonderful and skilled as they are in many areas, still suffers from the sam e problem that most EAA chapters, churches, civic organizations, online communities, and virtually every other group on earth faces... the same small core group of folks does most of the work, and there's always much more to do than there are folks willing and/or able to do it. EAA actually gets things done better than most groups overall, I think. That's not to sa y that they shouldn't have covered the Piets... or the T-28 anniversary... or even the nearly NTSB-investigation-worthy arrival of the A380. But Sport Aviation would have to be 400 pages long to cover everything properly, and it would take 5 months to write, edit, and produce! They're human and have deadlines and make mistakes (heck, last month's Sport Pilot had a very noticeable typo... right on the cover!) Not the end of the world, but a reminder that things do slip through the cracks, even in the big leagues. I'm not saying it's acceptable that they didn't cover the Piets at all, BUT I strongly suspect that it was little more than an embarassing oversight, not a wilful desire to cut the Piets out, and they might even be very embarassed over it, now that they've been made aware of the oversight. As for the fly-bys, I remember the same kind of issues becoming apparent when they had 7 different Trimotors doing fly-bys a few years ago... we all could have watched it all day, but they only were able to do it for a very few minutes, despite the truly historic nature of such a collection (only about 4 were Fords... one was a Junkers, one was a seaplane, I think there was something else too...) It does sound like it ended up being a mess but given the insane air traffic situation there, it's possible there's more to it than one or two guys dropping the ball. Heck, some of that could have come down from the FAA or even their insurance carriers, who knows. Maybe they're just trying to cram in too much for the time they alotted. The best thing to do is to thoroughly document the problems and who said and did what, and let them know (which you already did)... and give them a chance t o correct it. EAA isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than any other group at supporting the kind of aviation we all enjoy, and is vital in keeping thing s going in the face of a government that gets more oppressive by the day towards aviation. They need our support and turning these problems into a lets-bash-EAA party WILL hurt us. So... Let's adopt the homebuilder spirit here and offer positive solutions and ideas, and move on from there. Sure there should have been at least a paragraph of two and a photo in with the rest of all the OSH coverage, but let's encourage them to consider publishing a full article in an upcoming issue that will provide more room for real info. Maybe they're already planning this, who knows. Those of you who directly took part might even write something yourselves, I just bet they'd welcome it. -Mike Mike Whaley MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to > Tom Poberezny: > > Tom Poberezny > President, Experimental Aircraft Association > P.O. Box 3086 > Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086 > August 3rd, > 2009 > Dear Mr. Poberezny, > > I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft > Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the members hip > to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is > heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that > resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.- I > understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to > get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this news, as > I'm sure did a majority of the membership. > > I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with > its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on > homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back > seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors. > > Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to > Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over th e > mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was that > I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review. > On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end o f > 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour > pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at th e end > of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuilt > Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to celebrate > the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd ma n out > (which was me) did not get to fly. > > I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was > flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time to > be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is uncl ear > to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EAA has > demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particular ly > plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so we > get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention. > > I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President > of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board. > I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure, > expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. - I > am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program. > However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your > successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft, > preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currentl y > building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much > richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is st ill > the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association. > > Sincerely, > > > Jack Phillips > EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003) > Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture > 2005) > > cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones > > > To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter, > without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it): > > Jack, > >- Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future, > and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid > comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the > organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at > the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do > better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, an d Joe > Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings. > Please know that your thoughts are important. > > Regards, > > Tom > > > Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000 > Chairman of the Board & President > EAA-The Spirit of Aviation > Phone: 920.426.4810 > Fax: 920.426.4878 > > www.eaa.org > >- See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010 > > Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davi s > on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do think it > is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft > Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet" > Raleigh, NC > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation > <billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The > "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stands > for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified, > factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is > a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus > definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and > that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization. I > realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely have > no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and woul d > much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and > as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the > virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the > North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first > visit to Oshkosh, an! >- d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected > to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not > manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it > ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the world > where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily > airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft, > in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkos h > can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few) . > Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of > co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small > place for only one week of the year. > It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in > the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going t o > play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an > article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because > they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed > a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592 > > ________________________________- Message 24- _________________________ ___________ Time: 09:42:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden fighters in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies were cut off we could still get a plane in the air. Russell On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> wrote: > > In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-atta ck > aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco ) > it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for > consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter > design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased > there :) > > Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be > stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "prov en > technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though... > > Mike Whaley > MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM > Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting > > > Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It > was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a > big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it > is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens > to > be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some > photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know" > information. > > Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at > our > EAA meeting the other night. > > Shad > > ________________________________- Message 25- _________________________ ___________ Time: 11:13:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> Well said, On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:29 AM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> wrote: > > Jack et al, > > I certainly think that many folks agree, in all or part, with many of you r > points and concerns. But to be fair, let's not forget that in the past ye ar > or so, EAA has launched the new "Experimenter" newsletter, which is very > much oriented towards the scratch-builder/experimental aspects... and > better > yet, has made it available to all who want it, not just EAA members. EAA, > as > wonderful and skilled as they are in many areas, still suffers from the > same > problem that most EAA chapters, churches, civic organizations, online > communities, and virtually every other group on earth faces... the same > small core group of folks does most of the work, and there's always much > more to do than there are folks willing and/or able to do it. EAA actuall y > gets things done better than most groups overall, I think. That's not to > say > that they shouldn't have covered the Piets... or the T-28 anniversary... or > even the nearly NTSB-investigation-worthy arrival of the A380. But Sport > Aviation would have to be 400 pages long to cover everything properly, an d > it would take 5 months to write, edit, and produce! They're human and hav e > deadlines and make mistakes (heck, last month's Sport Pilot had a very > noticeable typo... right on the cover!) Not the end of the world, but a > reminder that things do slip through the cracks, even in the big leagues. > I'm not saying it's acceptable that they didn't cover the Piets at all, B UT > I strongly suspect that it was little more than an embarassing oversight, > not a wilful desire to cut the Piets out, and they might even be very > embarassed over it, now that they've been made aware of the oversight. > > As for the fly-bys, I remember the same kind of issues becoming apparent > when they had 7 different Trimotors doing fly-bys a few years ago... we a ll > could have watched it all day, but they only were able to do it for a ver y > few minutes, despite the truly historic nature of such a collection (only > about 4 were Fords... one was a Junkers, one was a seaplane, I think ther e > was something else too...) It does sound like it ended up being a mess bu t > given the insane air traffic situation there, it's possible there's more to > it than one or two guys dropping the ball. Heck, some of that could have > come down from the FAA or even their insurance carriers, who knows. Maybe > they're just trying to cram in too much for the time they alotted. The be st > thing to do is to thoroughly document the problems and who said and did > what, and let them know (which you already did)... and give them a chance > to > correct it. > > EAA isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than any other group at > supporting the kind of aviation we all enjoy, and is vital in keeping > things > going in the face of a government that gets more oppressive by the day > towards aviation. They need our support and turning these problems into a > lets-bash-EAA party WILL hurt us. So... > > Let's adopt the homebuilder spirit here and offer positive solutions and > ideas, and move on from there. Sure there should have been at least a > paragraph of two and a photo in with the rest of all the OSH coverage, bu t > let's encourage them to consider publishing a full article in an upcoming > issue that will provide more room for real info. Maybe they're already > planning this, who knows. Those of you who directly took part might even > write something yourselves, I just bet they'd welcome it. > > -Mike > > Mike Whaley > MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM > Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation > > > <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > > > After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to > > Tom Poberezny: > > > > Tom Poberezny > > President, Experimental Aircraft Association > > P.O. Box 3086 > > Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086 > > August 3rd, > > 2009 > > Dear Mr. Poberezny, > > > > I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft > > Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the > membership > > to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization i s > > heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that > > resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. - I > > understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should tr y > to > > get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this new s, > as > > I'm sure did a majority of the membership. > > > > I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through wi th > > its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasi s on > > homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a bac k > > seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors. > > > > Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to > > Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the > > mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up w as > that > > I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Revie w. > > On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end > of > > 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two > hour > > pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at the > end > > of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the > Homebuilt > > Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to > celebrate > > the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd man > out > > (which was me) did not get to fly. > > > > I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was > > flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight ti me > to > > be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is > unclear > > to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EA A > has > > demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particul arly > > plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so > we > > get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention. > > > > I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as > President > > of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the > Board. > > I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure, > > expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. >- I > > am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles progra m. > > However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your > > successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental > aircraft, > > preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and > currently > > building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is > much > > richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is > still > > the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Jack Phillips > > EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award > 2003) > > Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVentur e > > 2005) > > > > cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones > > > > > > > > To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the > letter, > > without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it): > > > > Jack, > > > >- Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its > future, > > and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid > > comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the > > organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, a nd > at > > the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue t o > do > > better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe > > Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meeting s. > > Please know that your thoughts are important. > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > > > Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000 > > Chairman of the Board & President > > EAA-The Spirit of Aviation > > Phone: 920.426.4810 > > Fax: 920.426.4878 > > > > www.eaa.org > > > >- See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010 > > > > Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry > Davis > > on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do thi nk > it > > is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft > > Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV. > > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet" > > Raleigh, NC > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill > Church > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation > > > <billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > > > Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. > The > > "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it > stands > > for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified, > > factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" ther e > is > > a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus > > definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, > and > > that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization . > I > > realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely > have > > no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and > would > > much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - > and > > as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, > the > > virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the > > North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my fir st > > visit to Oshkosh, an! > >- d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT > connected > > to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did n ot > > manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it > > ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the > world > > where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible dai ly > > airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird > aircraft, > > in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that > Oshkosh > > can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a > few). > > Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of > > co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one sma ll > > place for only one week of the year. > > It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in > > the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going > to > > play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't a n > > article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because > > they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they > needed > > a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves. > > > > Bill C. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________- Message 26- _________________________ ___________ Time: 11:13:18 PM PST US From: Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@CLEAR.NET.NZ> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting Hi, the British actually did, and it was one of the most successfull designs of the war, my daytime job is restoring one, the DH 98 Mosquito fighter / bomber. Regards Mike T. - ----- Original Message ----- - From: Robert Ray - To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com - Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:33 PM - Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting - Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden fighters - in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies - were cut off we could still get a plane in the air. - Russell - On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> wrote: <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> - - In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-attack - - aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco) - - it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for - - consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighte r - - design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased - - there :) - - Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be - - stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven - - technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though... - - Mike Whaley - - MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com - - ----- Original Message ----- - - From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> - - To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> - - Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM - - Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting - - Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It - - was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a - - big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it - - is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens to - - be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some - - photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know " - - information. - - Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at our - - EAA meeting the other night. - - st Un/Subscription, - - www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - - ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com - - Matt Dralle, List Admin. - - === ________________________________- Message 27- _________________________ ___________ Time: 11:13:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> No I'm very concerned about the heat resistance of my epoxy and the temperature that it burns, it is a thermal plastic and when it catches it burns like gasoline so as I said before I am very critical of the epoxy in the areas of the firewall and with good reason. I have tested it in the oven and there is a reason also that most fiberglass airplanes are painted white, there is a reason that epoxy must be reinforced with screws in construction in areas such as attics where there is high heat. T-88 probably has the best heat resistance but then again if there is a high quality glue that has better heat resistance in the area of the fire wall then I will use it on my plane . Russell On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote : >- Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans. > > On another point... > I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that catches > fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my epoxy stan ds > up to this heat". > > BC > > ** > > * > > * > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A


    Message 57


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:35:06 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Jim M. welding aluminum
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Cool stuff Jim! I need to make some progress like that. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263078#263078


    Message 58


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:40:23 PM PST US
    Subject: Ryan and Jess Mueller, famous radio subjects and Piet
    builders
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Hey Ryan, I called my parents tonight on my way to the EAA meeting, and my dad mentioned that he was listening to WGN radio (Chicago) the other night and they were talking about a husband and wife team that was building a Pietenpol in their one-room apartment in the city. I told my dad there could only be one of those in this world, and that I knew those people. I guess it was also mentioned that they (you) were at Brodhead over the weekend. What's the story on this??? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 59


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:42:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Jim Markle alum welding
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Jim, Beautiful welds!! Lets see some pics of the whole tank!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 60


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:24:50 PM PST US
    From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
    Here is the source for the Piper Enforcer and "photo" of the OV-10X: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/09/photo-boeing-pitches-o v-10x-br.html I've posted more info about the Boeing's OV-10X project over the past months here: http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ -M Mike Whaley MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 11:33 PM Subject: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting > Interesting story, either way. It was suggested that Piper is trying > something like that today, per the article Mike W mentioned where it said > exactly that. > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote: > > > It was in the 1970's that I was seeing the drawings with my friend. I > > don't believe that anyone has suggested that Piper is trying anything like > > this today. Maybe I am thinking about sa different aircraft, or maybe he > > was working on the aircraft as you describe. > > > > Gene > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:49 AM > > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting > > > > Your friend must be thinking of some other aircraft. That, or the folks at > > Dayton (and many other sources) are incorrect: > > > > http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614 > > > > Insofar as it being smaller, not so much. Here's a P-51Ds basic > > measurements: > > > > Length: 32.25' > > Wingspan: 37.04' > > Height: 13.67' > > > > And the P-48: > > > > Length: 34.17' > > Wingspan: 41.33' > > Height: 13.08' > > > > As you can see, the P-48 is not quite 2" longer and has a wingspan that's a > > hair over 4' longer (per the tip tanks, I would think). As far being 1/2" > > shorter, I can't account for that. Since it is based on a P-51 it's an old > > airframe...as we age we're supposed to become a little bit shorter; maybe > > that's it. :P > > > > The Enforcer itself was not a clean sheet design by Piper. It was a product > > of the people at Cavalier Aircraft, the Mustang conversion people. It was an > > evolution of their Mustang II, an extensively modified P-51 that was > > exported to various countries for use in counter-insurgency/CAS roles. They > > called it the Turbo Mustang III, with the major mod to it being the > > installation of a Rolls Royce Dart turboprop. They never got anywhere trying > > to sell it to the military, so they sold the design to Piper. Piper > > reengined the design with a Lycoming T-55 and named it the P-48 Enforcer. > > > > I would be very surprised if the P-48 were to receive even remote > > consideration in the USAF competition. Maybe they are only looking at > > drawings and specs at this point, and not actual aircraft; there are no > > flying P-48s. How Piper would produce one in this economy is a bit > > mind-boggling. They may have production equipment and drawings for all of > > the conversion parts that Cavalier designed, but they shouldn't have any > > tooling to produce a basic airframe with. Cavalier never produced airframes; > > they were scarfing up surplus Mustangs in the 60s, and building all of their > > various models of aircraft off of the basic Mustang airframe. It was > > obviously modified, extensively with some models, but it was the starting > > point. Don't get me wrong, if Piper wants to engineer tooling and equipment > > to start producing brand new P-51 Mustang airframes you won't find me > > complaining....just sounds a little ridiculous to me. :P > > > > Have a good morning everyone! > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote: > > > >> A friend of mine was one of, if not the chief designer of the Piper > >> Enforcer, and as I recall it was not based on a Mustang, although it looked > >> somewhat like one. I believe it was quite a bit smaller. He was showing me > >> design drawings almost from the start. > >> > >> Gene > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> *From:* Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> > >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >> *Sent:* Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:40 PM > >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting > >> > >> MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> > >> > >> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF > >> light-attack > >> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco) > >> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for > >> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter > >> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased > >> there :) > >> > >> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be > >> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely > >> "proven > >> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though... > >> > >> Mike Whaley > >> MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> > >> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM > >> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It > >> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had > >> a > >> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so > >> it > >> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens > >> to > >> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some > >> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know" > >> information. > >> > >> * > > > > title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > * > > > > * > > > > > > * > > > > >


    Message 61


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:43:43 PM PST US
    From: <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Vertical offset
    Nice and Simple http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Walt%20Bowe/IMG_1055.JPG http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Walt%20Bowe/IMG_1054.JPG http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Greg%20and%20Dale/DSCF0082.JPG Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical offset Can any members of the list send me photos of the offset vertical fin? I am searching for a photos in guidence to making my vertical fin offset and the brackets! Please email me directly... kmheide


    Message 62


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:14:01 PM PST US
    From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
    Subject: Aero-TV: Profiles in Aviation - Rob Bach and His Pietenpol
    I know I'm not the only Aero-News reader in this group... this was in today's edition. Maybe it'll take a little of the edge off the lack of coverage in Sport Aviation <G> -------------------- http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=233c2b29-1701-4753-992c-d0 b98e5b9af9& or http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?videoid=4aebea3e-23f6-4d84-9075-d9210c1ee3f e Aero-TV: Profiles in Aviation - Rob Bach and His Pietenpol Mon, 14 Sep '09 Vintage Aircraft Enthusiast Rob Bach Introduces the Pietenpol Air Camper Following World War I, civil aviation experienced an extraordinary surge in public curiosity that ignited pilots, mechanics and enthusiasts alike. Hundreds rushed to participate in this "Golden Age of Aviation," leading to a tremendous increase in technological advancements. One such participant was Bernard H. Pietenpol, a self-taught airplane designer from Spring Valley Cherry Grove, Minnesota. Considered the "Father of Homebuilt Aircraft," Pietenpol constructed his first homebuilt airplane in 1923, using a Ford Model T engine. He did not, however, gain world-wide recognition until April of 1930; Pietenpol set out for Minneapolis with two Ford Model A powered airplanes in order to prove to the editor of Modern Mechanics, now Popular Mechanics, that an auto engine powered aircraft could indeed fly. The editor was so impressed by the aircraft that the Pietenpol Air Camper was featured as the magazine's cover story. With the increased exposure, the airplane became the favorite homebuilt of its day. Pietenpol intentionally designed the aircraft with the "average 1930's American" in mind; all materials used were readily available in local stores and the aircraft could be easily built with a minimum amount of tools. The aircraft was constructed from spruce and plywood, powered by a converted Ford Model A 4 cylinder engine. Due to the downward thrust of the propeller, the aircraft had a short take off run, allowing the "Golden Age" pilots to fly it from most off-airport fields. FMI: http://www.pietenpols.org/, http://www.aero-tv.net, http://www.youtube.com/aerotvnetwork, http://twitter.com/AeroNews Mike Whaley MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com


    Message 63


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:53:33 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: humped center section
    I've now got four layers of fibreglass on the plug bottom half ( vinyl ester resin ) and am hoping to do the top this weekend if the weather holds. This tank should hold 22 gallons. All except a few ounces useable up to 15=B0 nose down and any angle nose up, except maybe in a hammerhead. :-) I've also attached a pic of my throttle linkage and left side exhaust manifold. Sometime I'll get around to making another couple of pages on my website. Right now too much to do working on plane and getting some flutes done. I don't make flutes then I don't get to sell them, do I? Clif "It is not death that a man should fear, but he should fear never beginning to live." ~ Marcus Aurelius ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:51 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: humped center section Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's: http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09/14/09 17:52:00




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   pietenpol-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Pietenpol-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --