Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:19 AM - Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES (jimd)
2. 04:32 AM - Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES (jimd)
3. 05:22 AM - Re: yep--it's a little bit dated--Mike Cuy's DVD is still available (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
4. 06:14 AM - Re: Seat back ply...structural? (Michael Perez)
5. 06:25 AM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (TOM STINEMETZE)
6. 07:18 AM - Re: 0235 engine report (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
7. 07:21 AM - Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES (Bill Church)
8. 07:21 AM - Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Michael Perez)
9. 07:37 AM - Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics (Jerry Dotson)
10. 07:45 AM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
11. 07:46 AM - Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES (Craig Steffen)
12. 08:04 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Bill Church)
13. 08:09 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Jack Phillips)
14. 08:10 AM - Re: Seat back ply...structural? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
15. 08:18 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Ken Howe)
16. 08:18 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Michael Perez)
17. 08:27 AM - Re: Seat back ply...structural? (Michael Perez)
18. 08:41 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Bill Church)
19. 09:03 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Craig Steffen)
20. 09:04 AM - Definitly not a home-built (TOM STINEMETZE)
21. 09:10 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Bill Church)
22. 09:52 AM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Owen Davies)
23. 09:52 AM - Re: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings (Michael Perez)
24. 09:56 AM - Re: Definitly not a home-built (Michael Perez)
25. 09:58 AM - why even build ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
26. 10:12 AM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Michael Perez)
27. 10:21 AM - spelling (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
28. 10:21 AM - Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
29. 10:22 AM - Re: Definitely not a home-built (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
30. 10:40 AM - Re: Definitely not a home-built (Michael Perez)
31. 10:46 AM - fly-ins (skellytown flyer)
32. 10:52 AM - Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee (Craig Steffen)
33. 11:11 AM - humped center section (Oscar Zuniga)
34. 11:22 AM - Re: humped center section (Bill Church)
35. 11:41 AM - Re: humped center section (Ryan Mueller)
36. 11:53 AM - Re: humped center section (Bill Church)
37. 12:12 PM - Lee Bottom Flying Field, Hanover, Indiana (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
38. 12:19 PM - Re: [piet] Re: Off topic, but interesting (Graham Hansen)
39. 12:23 PM - Re: humped center section (Gary Boothe)
40. 12:44 PM - Re: Definitely not a home-built (Dan Yocum)
41. 01:13 PM - Re: humped center section (Gary Boothe)
42. 02:52 PM - Re: humped center section (gcardinal@comcast.net)
43. 03:26 PM - New Shirts and Stuff Available (John Hofmann)
44. 03:42 PM - Mike Cuy's DVD is still available (Jim Markle)
45. 03:53 PM - Re: [piet] Re: Off topic, but interesting (Gene & Tammy)
46. 04:17 PM - Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
47. 05:40 PM - Jim M. welding aluminum (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
48. 05:42 PM - Re: New Shirts and Stuff Available (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
49. 05:49 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop (Dick N.)
50. 05:49 PM - Vertical offset (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP)
51. 06:03 PM - Re: Jim M. welding aluminum (Jim Markle)
52. 06:13 PM - Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available (Jim Markle)
53. 06:18 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop Sun-N-Fun (Ben Charvet)
54. 06:40 PM - Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
55. 06:42 PM - Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee (Robert Ray)
56. 07:11 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 09/12/09 (Matt Keyes)
57. 07:35 PM - Re: Jim M. welding aluminum (K5YAC)
58. 07:40 PM - Ryan and Jess Mueller, famous radio subjects and Piet builders (helspersew@aol.com)
59. 07:42 PM - Jim Markle alum welding (helspersew@aol.com)
60. 08:24 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting (Mike Whaley)
61. 08:43 PM - Re: Vertical offset ()
62. 09:14 PM - Aero-TV: Profiles in Aviation - Rob Bach and His Pietenpol (Mike Whaley)
63. 11:53 PM - Re: humped center section (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? |
YES
They had some EAA classes in the KC area few weeks back, but the one I really wanted,
the discover homebuilding(?) one where they do wood, fabric, composite,
and aluminum... wasn't offfered, in fact it seems to be offered once a year only
in some remote place.
Wood working class would be nice. I ended up taking the avionics/soldering class,
which was pretty pointless with my aerial project, since it has no avionics
or electric.. but it was a fun class.
Jim D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262900#262900
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? |
YES
Also, saw a posting on the biplane forum about an A/C wood working workshop.. which
already happened, however they may do them more than just once ever;
I realize this is kind of short notice but Blue Swallow Aircraft,LLC is holding
a two day "Historical Aircraft Wood Working Workshop" this coming Sat. and Sun.
Sept. 12-13 near Charlottesville, VA (CHO) Wehad a cancelation so there is
still room for someone who would be interested in learning about selecting and
working with Spruce and other aircraft grade woods. There are more details of
the class on our web site
BlueSwallowAircraft.com and you can email me for help.
Jim D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262902#262902
Message 3
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Subject: | yep--it's a little bit dated--Mike Cuy's DVD is |
still available
Ryan writes: Why haven't you sent him a check yet?
You are too kind Ryan but I thank you and YES...why haven't some of your in
fidels written a check yet ? :) 100% joking. I never intended to sell a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a "walk a
round" of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me and sent me
a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped film. I threw in a vid
eo walk around as well and added bunches of old video and he called me and
said "man, you should sell those tapes". The rest is history.
And yes-Jim Markle sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glas
s mug or whatever turnpike money you might have in your pocket:) Also kid
ding. You actually have to buy him dinner too. You know I love you Jim.
...keep the faith. And where IS my 10% cut on those second gen DVD's ???
?
Mike C.
Message 4
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Subject: | Seat back ply...structural? |
So, Mike C., if I hear you right, you say it would not be a good idea? Is t
hat what you are saying?-- 8^[-)
-
It was actually YOUR pictures that started the whole idea! I thought about
building a frame, (as I said in the original post), then lay in some type o
f webbing, fabric, elastic....something, (think lawn chair) for comfort.
-
It would have been a challenge to figure out how to reshape the turtle deck
/storage area above the seat back to conform with the curved webbing, etc.
Then there's the front seat...
-
Anyhoo, I get the feeling you are against it and seeing how building as dra
wn is simpler, I will continue as drawn.-
-
Thanks.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine |
Mike:
That's dramatic enough for me - thank you very much! I'm glad to hear
that it worked out so well for you. I guess that's a good reason for
doing the 40-hour flyoff in close proximity to the airfield.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz> 9/11/2009 5:11 PM >>>
Hi Tom, the incident was not as dramatic as it could have been. The
muffler was made from thin stainless which cracked on takeoff and the
exhaust proceeded to burn the ply of the cockpit foor, adjacent to the
fuel drain. The fire burnt through a layer of paint and lightweight
fibreglass cloth then through one ply of 3mm plywood in a matter of
seconds. When throttled back the burning appeared to stop, I completed a
circut and landed. Our intended route was along a rather inhospitable
stretch of coastline and had the fire occured later the outcome would have
been very different. The epoxy in the fibreglass burnt but the epoxy
bonding the ply was still in good condition, I guess the ply limited the
heat transfered through. Changes made after this incident: muffler made of
heavier and less brittle grade of stainless, supported further away from
fuse and flexibly mounted, metal sheilds on floor. The story does not stop
there as the new muffler had a tail pipe that was horizontal with the
bottom of the fuse, and on the next flight I felt a little off colour, I
then saw the CO indicator was black. Time to get back on the deck and
modify the exhaust yet again. I now do thorough checks after making any
changes as the unexpected can and does happen. The aircraft in question
was an enclosed cockpit Jodel not a Pietenpol.
regards
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: 0235 engine report |
The saga continues. the guy that's working the heads just received them so
not much to report there unless he calls me and for some reason with news
that they are beyond repair.
I got a call form the lady in Dallas who lode me my tappets were shot but
was able to get me a full set of serviceable tappet cores then has had them
machined so the cam and lifters are about ready to ship. So that's the deal
on the valve train. Now to pay for it all.
John
Message 7
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Subject: | Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? |
YES
Craig,
You say that you'd be willing to travel halfway across the country, and
pay $250 for a weekend course that will teach you how to build a wing
rib, but are hesitant to spend $100 or $180 for a set of Pietenpol
plans.
Is that because you don't know if you are capable of building a wooden
airplane, or because you don't know if the Piet is the plane for you?
If you want to try both, for a very small cash outlay, buy a copy of the
old Flying and Glider reprints from EAA - that will get you a very small
set of 1929 plans, but will still provide enough information to allow
you to build a wing rib. Then, go to the EAA website, and check out the
homebuilders videos on working with wood. They cover pretty much all you
need to know to build a rib. If you have a tablesaw, you can buy a
couple of 2x4's from Home Depot, and rip them into capstrip sizes, and
for $5 have enough wood to make a few practice ribs. The technique is
the same when it comes to the real thing - the only difference is the
quality of the wood.
The woodworking skills required to build a Pietenpol are not really that
great. The most challenging woodworking would probably be the landing
gear (for the old Jenny-style gear).
Bill C.
Message 8
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Subject: | Ply -V- aluminum cowlings |
I have seen both aluminum and plywood used for covering of the cowlings/ins
trument bays on the top of the Pietenpol. Advantages using either one?- I
t looks like I have enough plywood on hand to use, but wonder if aluminum i
s better.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics |
I dug up another old picture. It is one I made in the darkroom about 1970. This
is the SR-9C. I flew it a bunch to fly-ins for him. I remember 15 gallons/hr
and 125 MPH. Kinda like a Piet on roids!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262929#262929
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stinson_sr_9c_549.jpg
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
Yes, this Wiki article says that the second prototype spin in inverted. Pilot got
out. It also had some other problems IE Engine Vibration and performance not
up to expectations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_XP-77
With lowered performance expectations and using a lower HP engine It would be doable.
Blue Skies,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
> Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> > the Bell XP-77 is one of my favorites that might make a great WW II homebuilt
replica. Small, Wood, It only had a 500 HP motor and looks cool.
> I thought about that project once, too, and it still appeals to me. (Not
> that I'll get to fly one as an LSA!) But I understand that the prototype
> went in owing to aerodynamic problems. Do you have any details?
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? |
YES
Hi Bill,
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
> You say that you'd be willing to travel halfway across the country, and pay
> $250 for a weekend course that will teach you how to build a wing rib, but
> are hesitant to spend $100 or $180 for a set of Pietenpol plans.
Sorry; I re-read my message; I did say that, but that's because I was
being sloppy with my wording. I'm not concerned about the cash outlay
for the plans. I'm concerned about the time involved. I don't want
to get a year or two into building something (not to mention thousands
of dollars or more in materials) and then realize that the reason I'm
not working very fast is that I don't like working on that kind of
material.
> Is that because you don't know if you are capable of building a wooden
> airplane, or because you don't know if the Piet is the plane for you?
The second. I'm going to go to the fly-in at Lee Bottom and try to
sit in one, to at least try out the cockpit fit.
> If you want to try both, for a very small cash outlay, buy a copy of the old
> Flying and Glider reprints from EAA - that will get you a very small set of
> 1929 plans, but will still provide enough information to allow you to build
> a wing rib.
I got those plans at Oshkosh in August. Building a rib or two, or
something bigger, like a tailfin is a good idea. I would really like
to hook up with somebody locally who has built with wood to get an
idea if I'm doing it right.
> Then, go to the EAA website, and check out the homebuilders
> videos on working with wood. They cover pretty much all you need to know to
> build a rib.
I didn't know about those. Ok, I'll check that out, thanks!
> If you have a tablesaw, you can buy a couple of 2x4's from Home
> Depot, and rip them into capstrip sizes, and for $5 have enough wood to make
> a few practice ribs. The technique is the same when it comes to the real
> thing - the only difference is the quality of the wood.
Ok, that makes sense.
> The woodworking skills required to build a Pietenpol are not really that
> great. The most challenging woodworking would probably be the landing gear
> (for the old Jenny-style gear).
Although the spoked-wheel-style certainly looks cool, for a first
airplane I'm going to build whatever minimizes my time (and money)
invested to make something that flies and lands safely.
Thank for the information! I will definitely follow up on that.
Sincerely,
Craig Steffen
Message 12
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Subject: | Ply -V- aluminum cowlings |
As I see it, Aluminum is probably a better material if you want to be
able ro remove the decking.
If you will not want to be able to remove it, there is some weight
savings to be achieved by using plywood. 1/16" Aircraft Birch Ply has a
density of about 0.2 pounds per square foot, whereas .025" Aluminum
weighs about 0.35 pounds per square foot. There's about 10 square feet
of decking between the pilot's seat and the firewall, so that translates
to about a pound and a half of savings. But the aluminum will need to be
fastened with a bunch of screws, which also have weight - whereas the
plywood could be glued in place (also some weight for the glue, but less
than the weight of the screws).
So, by using plywood you might be able to shave a couple of pounds off
the weight of your plane, but you will not have the ability to remove
the decking.
Your call. Either one works.
Bill C.
Message 13
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Subject: | Ply -V- aluminum cowlings |
Don't forget to add the weight of the varnish for the plywood, which the
aluminum won't need (although it will need primer under the paint).
I personally have not seen a Pietenpol with anything but aluminum for the
cockpit cowling. It is very nice to be able to remove it for plumbing all
the instruments.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
As I see it, Aluminum is probably a better material if you want to be able
ro remove the decking.
If you will not want to be able to remove it, there is some weight savings
to be achieved by using plywood. 1/16" Aircraft Birch Ply has a density of
about 0.2 pounds per square foot, whereas .025" Aluminum weighs about 0.35
pounds per square foot. There's about 10 square feet of decking between the
pilot's seat and the firewall, so that translates to about a pound and a
half of savings. But the aluminum will need to be fastened with a bunch of
screws, which also have weight - whereas the plywood could be glued in place
(also some weight for the glue, but less than the weight of the screws).
So, by using plywood you might be able to shave a couple of pounds off the
weight of your plane, but you will not have the ability to remove the
decking.
Your call. Either one works.
Bill C.
Message 14
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Subject: | Seat back ply...structural? |
Whoops-- misread your question Mike P. You were talking about a framed in
seat bulkhead but with something else/ webbing/ etc. in the 'meat' portion, center
of it.
RTFQ is in order for me !
Mike C.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
I've been following this discussion, and would like to add my 2 cents.
I'd be unlikely to travel more than a half day drive for the sole
purpose of attending a building workshop. That's not to say that I
wouldn't want to, but I just don't think I could justify the travel
expense at this time. There really is loads I could learn, and living
here in the center of the RV world ( Dick Van G. is a member of our
chapter) there's not a lot of wood builders to learn from. IF I do make
the pilgrimage to Brodhead and Oshkosh in the future, then I'd jump on
the chance to attend a workshop.
--Ken
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
> Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
> couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
> for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
> someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
> and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
> behind it. Would people come to such an event?
>
> The big builders' workshops have both east and west
> coast venues due to the high interest in some of
> the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
> Camper interest would be high enough for more than
> one such event in any given year, and it would
> probably be held in Florida or California.
>
> I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
> wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
> as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
> My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
> personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
> since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
> group setting would not really interest too many of
> the type of people who want to build Piets.
>
> Comments?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Ply -V- aluminum cowlings |
Thank you Bill. Your post had use full numbers I was hoping someone would p
ost. I am not at the cowling point just yet, but close. I was thinking abou
t a curved plywood cowl with maybe a former under it to hold the shape, the
n have it removable by screws or hinge it. I have not looked at them very c
lose yet, so I may be off here in my thinking.
-
-
Message 17
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Subject: | Seat back ply...structural? |
No problem Mr. Cuy. I am looking for comfort outside of adding a seat cushi
on. (That's just too easy!)- So I started thinking of a lawn chair type s
etup, in general, with multiple mesh/webbing straps or a larger one piece o
f material.- (Like a directors chair) The various marine and outdoor livi
ng type places have UV and water proof material that would work. We'll see.
I don't think it would be a good idea to have a "soft" back seat with the
plywood turtle deck riser/storage bin above that. I would think that riser
would need to be moved so my back/shoulders/neck don't rest against it and
not the soft back seat.
Message 18
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Subject: | Ply -V- aluminum cowlings |
Like I said, if you want the decking to be removable, Aluminum is
probably the better way to go.
By the time you add formers and screws and hinges and, and, and... there
won't likely be any weight savings to be seen.
BC
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Dick N. <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
> I would like to weigh in on this. There has been an informal Piet builders
> workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now. We can't actually call it that,
> but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet
> people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone.
Hey, that's great information. I've been looking for an excuse to go
to Sun-n-Fun anyway. Thanks!
>That
> has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved
> with it. Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd. A couple of years ago it
> was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial
> Piet. We are open to projects and participation. If anyone has a project
> to make some fast progress on let me know.
I won't at that time, but if I haven't managed to get some up-close
looks at wood-working, I'd definitely like to attend and offer my time
in exchange for being able to work on something.
So at Sun-and-Fun in Florida. Does it go all week, or are the
specific times that it's scheduled to go on?
I will keep that in mind for the spring, thanks a lot.
Craig Steffen
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Definitly not a home-built |
On a strictly non-Pietenpol subject. My son Matt sent me this photo
this morning of the Space Shuttle landing at Edwards Air Force Base -
about 15-miles away from where he works in Mojave, CA. He and his wife
were fortunate enough to be in Florida and watch the launch about a week
ago so this was pretty exciting for him.
NASA can't be all bad if they hire people like Mike C.
do not archive
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
Message 21
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Subject: | Ply -V- aluminum cowlings |
You're right, Jack. I forgot to include the weight of the varnish.
Varnish is required for the plywood (inside and out), whereas the
aluminum doesn't need it (unless you're going for the Spirit of St.
Louis look). So the potential weight savings would be a bit less than
advertised.
The plans call for aluminum.
I've personally seen one Pietenpol (that I know of) with plywood cockpit
cowling. C-FAUK has plywood rather than aluminum. It's been flying for
more than 20 years. Just saw it again yesterday, as a matter of fact.
I also have attached a photo of a British Piet (G-ECVB) under
construction, which shows the plywood before covering. Note that the
plywood stops just ahead of the front cockpit, as this plane has fuel in
the nose, and used a removable aluminum cover over the fuel tank. A
doubler of plywood is used around the perimeter of the cockpit openings.
And here's a link to a photo of the finished plane:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0678122/L/
Bill C.
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_XP-77
Interesting! I'd missed that. Thanks.
Well, on due reflection, the Hawker Hurricane had some wood. And for the
rest of it, I enjoy welding.
Or...Mosquito, anybody?
Owen
Message 23
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Subject: | Ply -V- aluminum cowlings |
I like the look of the smooth plywood as opposed to the aluminum with all t
he screws. Another alternative could be a perminate plywood cowling with a
removeable instument panel. Still planning, but thanks for the tips.
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
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You're right, Jack. I forgot to-include the weight of the varnish. Varnis
h is required for the plywood (inside and out), whereas the aluminum doesn'
t need it (unless you're going for the Spirit of St. Louis look). So the po
tential weight savings-would be-a bit less than advertised.
-
The plans call for aluminum.
-
I've personally seen one Pietenpol (that I know of) with plywood cockpit co
wling. C-FAUK has plywood rather than aluminum. It's been flying for more t
han 20 years. Just saw it again yesterday, as a matter of fact.
I also have attached a photo of a British Piet (G-ECVB) under construction,
which shows the plywood before covering. Note that the plywood stops just
ahead of the front cockpit, as this plane has fuel in the nose, and used a
removable aluminum cover over the fuel tank. A doubler of plywood is used a
round the perimeter of the cockpit openings.
And here's a link to a photo of the finished plane:
-
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0678122/L/
-
Bill C.-
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Definitly not a home-built |
The only thing Mike is good for here at NASA is Pietenpol advise! Most days
I avoid him...his-work ethics are hard to-deal with day in and day out
. That is obvious by the multiple postings he submits here on the list inst
ead of working. ( Not like myself...) 8^[ )
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@MCPCITY.COM> wrote:
From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@MCPCITY.COM>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Definitly not a home-built
On a strictly non-Pietenpol subject.--- My son Matt sent me this phot
o this morning of the Space Shuttle landing at Edwards Air Force Base - abo
ut 15-miles away from where he works in Mojave, CA.- He and his wife were
fortunate enough to be in Florida and watch the launch about a week ago so
this was pretty exciting for him.-
-
NASA can't be all bad if they hire people like Mike C.
do not archive
-
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
--
Message 25
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Subject: | why even build ? |
Just by one and start fun-start flying ! Here's a few that are on Bar
nstormers right now.
Boy these things aren't worth much are they ?
PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER<http://barnstormers.com/classified_365089_pietenpol+air
camper.html> * $12,000 * AVAILABLE FOR SALE OR TRADE * approx 4 yrs old, tt
50 hrs 65 cont perfect cond. exceptional workmanship. always hangered, s g
a. * Contact Harold J. Hendricks<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php
?to=52489&id=365089&title=pietenpol+aircamper&return=%2Flisting.php
%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbC
I7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiU
GFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwi
O3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJ
GaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6Ii
I7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7c
zo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdv
cnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjt
zOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Naples, FL USA
* Telephone: 239 293 5169 . * Posted September 1, 2009 * Show all Ads poste
d by this Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&
user=52489> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/recom
mend.php?id=365089&title=pietenpol+aircamper> * Email Advertiser<http:/
/barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=52489&id=365089&title=pietenp
ol+aircamper&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7cz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%253D%25
3D> * Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?AD
D=365089> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=365
089&title=pietenpol+aircamper>
PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER <http://barnstormers.com/classified_362890_PIETENPOL+AI
RCAMPER+.html> * $10,000 * FLY CHEAP * See my other ads for pictures. Power
ed with a fresh A-65 continental this plane is a HOOT to fly! * Contact Nik
ita C. Clark<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=65515&id=362
890&title=PIETENPOL+AIRCAMPER+&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26
filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3Jpc
HRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czow
OiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkN
vbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MD
oiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzO
jA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czow
OiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo
4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3
M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Seattle, WA USA * Telephone: 206 3
885370 * Posted August 24, 2009 * Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser<ht
tp://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user=65515> * Recomme
nd This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/recommend.php?id=362890&ti
tle=PIETENPOL+AIRCAMPER+> * Email Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/cont
act_seller.php?to=65515&id=362890&title=PIETENPOL+AIRCAMPER+&return
=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzO
jk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtz
OjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiI
iO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIj
tzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6I
lN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBo
b25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiI
iO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2
VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save to Watch
list<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=362890> * Repor
t This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=362890&title=PIETENP
OL+AIRCAMPER+>
PIETENPOL READY FOR COVERING <http://barnstormers.com/classified_360780_Pie
tenpol+Ready+for+Covering+.html> * ACCEPTING OFFERS * PIETENPOL excellent w
orkmanship, onepiece wing, ModelA, aviation grade spruce by professional sh
op * Contact Shaun D. Slade<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to
=58935&id=360780&title=Pietenpol+Ready+for+Covering+&return=%2Flist
ing.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXR
lbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7cz
oxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiT
W9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7
czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjt
zOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOj
A6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ
2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6
MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Lakeland
, FL USA * Telephone: 863-660-5297 * Posted August 16, 2009 * Show all Ads
posted by this Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=userse
arch&user=58935> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/
recommend.php?id=360780&title=Pietenpol+Ready+for+Covering+> * Email Ad
vertiser<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=58935&id=360780&
title=Pietenpol+Ready+for+Covering+&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsear
ch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToiRGVz
Y3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJlciI
7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIjtzOj
c6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO
3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5
IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI
7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiIC
I7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY
2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D> * Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad
_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=360780> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.c
om/report_ad.php?id=360780&title=Pietenpol+Ready+for+Covering+>
PIETENPOL AIRCAMPER<http://barnstormers.com/classified_340152_Pietenpol+Air
camper.html> * $16,500 * FOR SALE TO GOOD HOME * Built to 1933 plans by IA.
Short fuselage. Stits process covered. 65 hp Cont. Certified w/logs. Steer
able tail wheel, Matco. 850X6 tires, Cleveland wheels and brakes. 15 gal. w
elded aluminum tank. Univair "wood prop" Flotorp 72X46. New Slick Magnetos.
J3 lift struts, 3 pc. wing. Flown 11.2 hrs, C of A 2004. Engine & airframe
logs. Fresh condition insp. with sale. Always hangared, Tele 406 827-3402
* Contact Ken Montoure<http://barnstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=8545
8&id=340152&title=Pietenpol+Aircamper&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3D
search%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3OiJLZXl3b3JkIjtzOjk6IlBpZXRlbnBvbCI7czoxMToi
RGVzY3JpcHRpb24iO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6IkhlYWRsaW5lIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxMDoiUGFydE51bWJ
lciI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6Ik1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciI7czowOiIiO3M6NToiTW9kZWwiO3M6MDoiIj
tzOjc6IkNvbXBhbnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjg6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hb
WUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJD
aXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWF
pbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MT
oiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vU
HJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>, Owner - located Thompson Falls, MT USA *
Telephone: 406 827 3402 . * Posted July 29, 2009 * Show all Ads posted by t
his Advertiser<http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?mode=usersearch&user
=85458> * Recommend This Ad to a Friend<http://barnstormers.com/recommend
.php?id=340152&title=Pietenpol+Aircamper> * Email Advertiser<http://bar
nstormers.com/contact_seller.php?to=85458&id=340152&title=Pietenpol+A
ircamper&return=%2Flisting.php%3Fmode%3Dsearch%26filters%3DYToyMDp7czo3Oi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%253D%253D>
* Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=
340152> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=340152&
title=Pietenpol+Aircamper> * View Larger Pictures<http://barnstormers.com
/ad_detail.php?ID=340152&go_to_images=1>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
I got quite a bit of stick time in both the OV-10A and D. Granted I flew from the
back, but I got to do areobatics as part of our test matrix. I was also ejection
seat qualified, (to do maintanance) as well as taxi qualified on both models.
I would like to see the -X!
Message 27
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Make that BUY one not by one.
Duh.
do not archive
Message 28
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Subject: | Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee |
Hi Craig,
You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully there will
be a few of them there, weather permitting.
You mention "trying to get out".
May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently drawn to
building
a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking. There are bigger engines,
longer
wings, and wider fuselages for us "full figured girls" if you really think the
Pietenpol
is for you. (notice I'm not excluding myself.)
Mike C.
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Subject: | Definitely not a home-built |
Mike's right-I do lots of Piet posting here at work but my rigs are on auto
pilot:) (well actually they are)
Usually Mike asks me about doing something on a Pietenpol that I've never h
eard of or considered so I usually am of no help
to him whatsoever except to say "that's outside of my realm of knowledge Mi
ke-yer on your own there." I'm a plain
vanilla kind of Piet builder but Mike has a very creative mind and comes up
with some very unique approaches to almost
each part of the airplane. Bernard must be spinning rapidly in his grave:
:) That's what homebuilding is all about tho-we
always learn something neat from other builders when they come up with new
ideas or looks.
An now I MUST get back to work as my boss will be checking in around 4 pm !
Mike C.
Message 30
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Subject: | Definitely not a home-built |
Work is always getting in the way of something...
=C2-
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy
@nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Definitely not a home-built
Mike=99s right=94I do lots of Piet posting here at work but my
rigs are on auto pilotJ=C2-=C2-=C2- (well actually they are)=C2-
=C2-=C2-
=C2-
Usually Mike asks me about doing something on a Pietenpol that I=99ve
never heard of or =C2-considered so I usually am of no help
to him whatsoever except to say =9Cthat=99s outside of my realm
of knowledge Mike=94yer on your own there.=9D=C2-=C2- =C2
-=C2-I=99m a plain
vanilla kind of Piet builder but Mike has a very creative mind and comes up
with some very unique approaches to almost
each part of the airplane.=C2-=C2- Bernard must be spinning rapidly in
his grave:J=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- That=99s
what homebuilding is all about tho=94we
always learn something neat from other builders when they come up with new
ideas or looks.
=C2-
An now I MUST get back to work as my boss will be checking in around 4 pm !
=C2-
Mike C.
=C2-
=C2-
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I tried to view the link to the Lee-bottom fly-in but it locks my computer up every
time I try. sure sounds like a great one to attend.but a long way for me
right now.I have till the 5th of October off and then have to go back to Working
in Kansas.does anyone know about a good grass roots fly-in say 500 miles from
Amarillo and happening in the next couple weeks? I'm sure ready for a fun trip
but guess I'll get back out in the garage and work on the Piet. I just finished
rigging a bellcrank linkage for my carb to the Corvair that should work
a lot better than what I had. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262976#262976
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Subject: | Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee |
Michael,
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully there will
> be a few of them there, weather permitting.
I'm definitely open to other designs, but given the theme I was
definitely hoping to see one there.
> May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently drawn to
building
> a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking.
Fair question. No, I'm about 6 feet tall. This spring I cracked 230
pounds, but I hope to never be that heavy again; I'm hoping I'll be
able to stay 215 and below.
I was fairly interested in HummelBirds for a while, although I am very
wary of the low gross weight capabilities. I attending their flyin-in
at Bryan Ohio at sat in Mory's original Hummel Bird prototype. Morry
Hummel, like many people (particularly pilots) born in the first half
of the 20th century, was a short thin man with very skinny legs. I
couldn't give enough clearance to move the stick and still be able to
get to the throttle. I also sat in an HB built to the "new", slighly
enlarged plans, and that was reasonable for me to sit in.
I imagine I'll be able to fit in the back cockpit. It's just a matter
that until I sit in a real one, I don't know much
shoulder/elbow/rear-end room I'll have. I'd like to have that level
of experience before I get mentally attached to the design.
Thanks,
Craig Steffen
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Subject: | humped center section |
Sorry for this repeat but I can't seem to find an earlier post that include
d links to pictures of Piets with the raised or humped center section (tall
er than the outboard wings). If anyone has those handy=2C I'd appreciate i
t. Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
do not archive
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Subject: | humped center section |
Oscar,
You mean like these?
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 060617_03
1
.JPG&PhotoID=3474
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Brussels%20
2
008_208.JPG&PhotoID=3955
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 060617_0
3
1.JPG&PhotoID=3474>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 090621_21
3
.JPG&PhotoID=4092
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 090621_20
9
.JPG&PhotoID=4093
Message 35
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Subject: | Re: humped center section |
Maybe this is it? (Courtesy of Bill C)
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=342
About halfway down the page....
HTH,
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry for this repeat but I can't seem to find an earlier post that
> included links to pictures of Piets with the raised or humped center section
> (taller than the outboard wings). If anyone has those handy, I'd appreciate
> it. Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> do not archive
>
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Subject: | humped center section |
Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's:
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html
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Subject: | Lee Bottom Flying Field, Hanover, Indiana |
I just tried Raymond and the site came up fine. Give it another go.
This is well worth going to. http://www.leebottom.com/
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Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
Group, DO NOT ARCHIVE
I've been lurking for some months now and have noted the increased activity
on the list. One item regarding the DH Mosquito prompted me to re-read a
portion of Geoffrey DeHavilland's autobiography, entitled SKY FEVER (ISBN 0
9063930 2 7).
On page 158, he states:
"The most significant feature of the Mosquito, of course, was its all-wood
construction."
"There is little difference in the weight of wood or metal aircraft when
dealing with structures of the size of the Mosquito."
On page 164:
"Four to five Mosquitoes could be built for one of the heavy bombers, thus
saving enormous effort, expense and man-hours. It caried a crew of only two,
thus saving greater sums in training, and also saving lives. It was faster
than any fighter, in fact it was the fastest warplane in the world for two
and a half years. It could fill the role of any of the many military 'planes
then existing. All these claims were fully borne out when the Mosquito went
into actual Royal Air Force service in September 1941."
"Span 54 feet, length 44.5 feet, total weight 22,587 lb., speed 425 miles
per hour at 30,000 feet."
On page 165:
"The basic design of the 'plane remained more or less constant, as did the
basic design of the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine, but the engine was called
upon to give more and more power until by the end of the war it was
developing more than twice the power of the original engine."
SKY FEVER is an interesting read and I recommend it to those interested in
aviation history in general and DH aircraft in particular.
Cheers,
Graham Hansen
(Still flying my wooden Pietenpol CF-AUN in sunny Alberta, Canada--for
nearly 39 years!)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Subject: | humped center section |
Greg Cardinal also has a slight rise to his tank, but I don't have a
picture. As I recall, he and Dale actually stretched fabric over that tank.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: humped center section
Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's:
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html
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Subject: | Re: Definitely not a home-built |
Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
> Mikes rightI do lots of Piet posting here at work but my rigs are on
> auto pilotJ (well actually they are)
For us computer-types we always saying that our code is compiling:
http://xkcd.com/303/
>
> An now I MUST get back to work as my boss will be checking in around 4 pm !
w00t!
I gave up on my so-called "friend" who's a tailwheel endorsed CFI and
found another gentleman to help me get the 10 hours the friendly
insurance company is requiring of me before I can take N8031 solo
*grumble, grumble, grumble*.
I, too, will be heading out at 4PM, but I'm off to the airport for a
turn or 8 around the patch.
Again, I say w00t!
Dan
PS back when I worked at Kitt Peak National Observatory in Tucson, I
witnessed the shuttle coming home for a night landing in Florida. It
was amazing. It started as the tiniest of pinpricks of light on the
western horizon, like the glowing head of a match, that streaked across
the night sky over the period of several minutes leaving a luminous
green trail of triply-ionized oxygen that lingered for hours.
Definitely one experience I'll never forget.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
do not archive
Message 41
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Subject: | humped center section |
Oscar,
Here is a picture of Greg & Dale's Piet from WestCoastPiets.com. If you go
the site and choose this picture you can enlarge the area in question.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: humped center section
Sorry for this repeat but I can't seem to find an earlier post that included
links to pictures of Piets with the raised or humped center section (taller
than the outboard wings). If anyone has those handy, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
do not archive
Message 42
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Subject: | Re: humped center section |
Message 43
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Subject: | New Shirts and Stuff Available |
By popular demand (okay, just Jim Markle) I have added to the Half
Fast Aviation design gallery. Now you too can be like an official
"Bratman of Brodhead" and are welcome to Smell my Diary Air above the
Glorious Cheddar Curtain. A variety of products are available
including shirts, mugs and Sigg Water Bottles. Visit often and keep
those suggestions coming in!
http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
Message 44
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|
Subject: | Mike Cuy's DVD is still available |
You just HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need t
o talk to Mark C!!
Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I worked on my ta
nk this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a Pietenpol bui
lding subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's really neat to finis
h up some things that seem to take forever to figure out but finally all th
e pieces come together. I've been working this tank thing over in my mind
for months (years actually). My initial goal was to lighten up the tank an
d found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far off from what an alum
inum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum welding in the process and
finally settled the issue.
Pics of the filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached.....
>From rainy Ottawa...
jm
You are too kind Ryan but I
thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels written
a check
yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a
=9Cwalk
around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me an
d sent
me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped
film. I threw in a video walk around as well and added
bunches of old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should sel
l
those tapes=9D. The rest is
history.
And yes=94Jim Markle
sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass mug or whatever
turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ
Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too.
You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS
my 10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ????
Mike C.
Message 45
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Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
Graham, Thanks for the heads up. I ordered Sky Fever about an hour ago.
Gene
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
>
> Group, DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> I've been lurking for some months now and have noted the increased
> activity
> on the list. One item regarding the DH Mosquito prompted me to re-read a
> portion of Geoffrey DeHavilland's autobiography, entitled SKY FEVER (ISBN
> 0
> 9063930 2 7).
>
> On page 158, he states:
>
> "The most significant feature of the Mosquito, of course, was its all-wood
> construction."
>
> "There is little difference in the weight of wood or metal aircraft when
> dealing with structures of the size of the Mosquito."
>
> On page 164:
>
> "Four to five Mosquitoes could be built for one of the heavy bombers, thus
> saving enormous effort, expense and man-hours. It caried a crew of only
> two,
> thus saving greater sums in training, and also saving lives. It was faster
> than any fighter, in fact it was the fastest warplane in the world for two
> and a half years. It could fill the role of any of the many military
> 'planes
> then existing. All these claims were fully borne out when the Mosquito
> went
> into actual Royal Air Force service in September 1941."
>
> "Span 54 feet, length 44.5 feet, total weight 22,587 lb., speed 425 miles
> per hour at 30,000 feet."
>
> On page 165:
>
> "The basic design of the 'plane remained more or less constant, as did the
> basic design of the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine, but the engine was called
> upon to give more and more power until by the end of the war it was
> developing more than twice the power of the original engine."
>
> SKY FEVER is an interesting read and I recommend it to those interested in
> aviation history in general and DH aircraft in particular.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham Hansen
> (Still flying my wooden Pietenpol CF-AUN in sunny Alberta, Canada--for
> nearly 39 years!)
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
05:51:00
Message 46
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Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available |
Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that
aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking order
s on
wing and head fuel tanks?
Jim that's great!
John
In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
You just HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need
to talk to Mark C!!
Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I worked on my
tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a Pietenpol
building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's really neat to
finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure out but finally
all
the pieces come together. I've been working this tank thing over in my
mind
for months (years actually). My initial goal was to lighten up the tank
and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far off from what an
aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum welding in the proces
s and
finally settled the issue.
Pics of the filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached.....
>From rainy Ottawa...
jm
You are too kind Ryan but I
thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels writte
n a check
yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a
=9Cwalk
around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me
and sent
me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped
film. I threw in a video walk around as well and added
bunches of old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should
sell
those tapes=9D. The rest is
history.
And yes=94Jim Markle
sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass mug or whatever
turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ
Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too.
You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS
my 10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ????
Mike C.
Message 47
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Subject: | Jim M. welding aluminum |
You're my hero Jim-- welding aluminum is a difficult thing to do well. Looks
like you've done well !
PS--did you install a threaded bushing from Wicks/ACS to accept the Tony Bingelis
advised finger strainer at your point of drainage ?
How many gallons will your tank hold ? Have you leak tested it ? I pressurized
mine w/ the blower side of my shop vac and soaped
it up--found a few leaks around the drain boss but the old hands at Valley City
Airport had some stickem mixture that I slathered on it
(some kind of two-part deal) and it hasn't leaked a drop of fuel yet.
Don't forget to use the Bee's-Wax-like substance called Fuel Lube on all of your
threads--no teflon tape in a/c fuel systems or paste. Again-- ala Tony B.
You takes yer chances.
Mike C.
Message 48
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Subject: | New Shirts and Stuff Available |
You should make up a Facebook page for Halfast Aviation John and I'd be a 'fan'
immediately.
Mike C.
________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of John Hofmann [jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Shirts and Stuff Available
By popular demand (okay, just Jim Markle) I have added to the Half Fast Aviation
design gallery. Now you too can be like an official "Bratman of Brodhead" and
are welcome to Smell my Diary Air above the Glorious Cheddar Curtain. A variety
of products are available including shirts, mugs and Sigg Water Bottles. Visit
often and keep those suggestions coming in!
http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com<mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
Message 49
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|
Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop |
Craig
The workshop goes everyday from about 9 am and someone is there till about 4
pm or later. There are no formal classes. We work on building real, usable
parts. I don't know what our major project will be for next year, yet. I
know we will be building Piet wing ribs ( 2 per day). We will choose a
project in the late winter. It may be a Sky Scout fuselage but that is only
if nobody else comes forward with a different project. There are generally
at least 5 or more Piet builders on hand at any time.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Steffen" <craigsteffen@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Dick N. <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
> I would like to weigh in on this. There has been an informal Piet builders
> workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now. We can't actually call it that,
> but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet
> people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone.
Hey, that's great information. I've been looking for an excuse to go
to Sun-n-Fun anyway. Thanks!
> That
> has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved
> with it. Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd. A couple of years ago it
> was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial
> Piet. We are open to projects and participation. If anyone has a project
> to make some fast progress on let me know.
I won't at that time, but if I haven't managed to get some up-close
looks at wood-working, I'd definitely like to attend and offer my time
in exchange for being able to work on something.
So at Sun-and-Fun in Florida. Does it go all week, or are the
specific times that it's scheduled to go on?
I will keep that in mind for the spring, thanks a lot.
Craig Steffen
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Can any members of the list send me photos of the offset vertical fin? I am
searching for a photos-in guidence to making my vertical fin offset and
the brackets!
-
Please email me directly...
-
kmheide
-
=0A=0A=0A
Message 51
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Subject: | Re: Jim M. welding aluminum |
>
>You're my hero Jim-- welding aluminum is a difficult thing to do well. Looks
like you've done well !
Thank you.
>
>PS--did you install a threaded bushing from Wicks/ACS to accept the Tony Bingelis
advised finger strainer at your point of drainage ?
Now THAT'S a timely question! I just went online and ordered the aluminum weld
fittings this evening! I already have the finger strainer on hand and will use
it after I get the fitting welded on.
>How many gallons will your tank hold ? Have you leak tested it ? I pressurized
mine w/ the blower side of my shop vac and soaped
>it up--found a few leaks around the drain boss but the old hands at Valley City
Airport had some stickem mixture that I slathered on it
>(some kind of two-part deal) and it hasn't leaked a drop of fuel yet.
It will hold 11 or 12 gallons. Yes, I've leak tested it. It leaked. It was amazing
how small the hole could be for it to leak! I finally figured out that
using enough filler in the weld is critical. Re-welded one "leak" 3 times without
success. Then did it one more time but this time added some more filler
rod. That did it.
>Don't forget to use the Bee's-Wax-like substance called Fuel Lube on all of your
threads--no teflon tape in a/c fuel systems or paste. Again-- ala Tony B.
I definitely won't use teflon tape but was going to use some Permatex thread sealant
stuff. Any idea of that's the same type of stuff as fuel lube?
Message 52
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Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available |
Thank you John.
Hey, I want to see the final product too! Actually, one thing I've learned about
welding aluminum is that it will take MANY hours (years maybe) of practice
to make a pretty AND solid TIG weld. Right now I'm happy with solid. So we'll
see.
Taking orders? Well, you never know! :-)
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Sep 14, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that
aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking orders on
wing and head fuel tanks?
Jim that's great!
John
In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
You just
HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need to talk
to Mark C!!
Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I
worked on my tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a
Pietenpol building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's
really neat to finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure out
but finally all the pieces come together. I've been working this tank
thing over in my mind for months (years actually). My initial goal was
to lighten up the tank and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far
off from what an aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum
welding in the process and finally settled the issue.
Pics of the
filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached.....
>From rainy
Ottawa...
jm
You are too kind Ryan but
I
thank you and YESwhy havent some of your infidels written a
check
yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell
a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a
walk
around of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me and
sent
me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped
film.
I threw in a video walk around as well and added
bunches of
old video and he called me and said man, you should sell
those
tapes. The rest is
history.
And
yesJim Markle
sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass
mug or whatever
turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ
Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too.
You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS
my
10% cut on those second gen DVDs ????
Mike C.
Message 53
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Subject: | Re: Piet builders' workshop Sun-N-Fun |
I always stop in to the woodworking shed when I'm at Sun-N-Fun.
Although I only live a few hours away, I generally have a hard time
getting over more than one day. For 2010 I'm hoping to have my Piet
ready to take to Lakeland, and plan to take the week off. Its a great
place to hang out. Usually lots of other things to do at Sun-N-Fun too
Ben
Dick N. wrote:
>
> Craig
> The workshop goes everyday from about 9 am and someone is there till
> about 4 pm or later. There are no formal classes. We work on
> building real, usable parts. I don't know what our major project will
> be for next year, yet. I know we will be building Piet wing ribs ( 2
> per day). We will choose a project in the late winter. It may be a
> Sky Scout fuselage but that is only if nobody else comes forward with
> a different project. There are generally at least 5 or more Piet
> builders on hand at any time.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Steffen"
> <craigsteffen@gmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
Message 54
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Subject: | Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available |
put me in line for first! and keep up the great work
John
In a message dated 9/14/2009 9:14:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Thank you John.
Hey, I want to see the final product too! Actually, one thing I've
learned about welding aluminum is that it will take MANY hours (years may
be) of
practice to make a pretty AND solid TIG weld. Right now I'm happy with
solid. So we'll see.
Taking orders? Well, you never know! :-)
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Sep 14, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that
aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking
orders on
wing and head fuel tanks?
Jim that's great!
John
In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
You just
HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need to talk
to Mark C!!
Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I
worked on my tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back int
o
a
Pietenpol building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's
really neat to finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure
out
but finally all the pieces come together. I've been working this tank
thing over in my mind for months (years actually). My initial goal was
to lighten up the tank and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't tha
t
far
off from what an aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum
welding in the process and finally settled the issue.
Pics of the
filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached.....
>From rainy
Ottawa...
jm
You are too kind Ryan but
I
thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels writte
n a
check
yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell
a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a
=9Cwalk
around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me
and
sent
me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped
film.
I threw in a video walk around as well and added
bunches of
old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should sell
those
tapes=9D. The rest is
history.
And
yes=94Jim Markle
sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass
mug or whatever
turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ
Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too.
You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS
my
10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ????
Mike C.
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Message 55
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Subject: | Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee |
Micheal Cuy,
I plan on going to the Lee Bottom flyin weather permitting I don't know
how much trouble it is but bring one of your CD's and I'll bring a 20 dollar
bill.
Is that correct? 20 dollars?
I'll wear my Jim Beam hat.
Russell
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Craig Steffen <craigsteffen@gmail.com>wrote:
> craigsteffen@gmail.com>
>
> Michael,
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
> Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
> > You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully
> there will
> > be a few of them there, weather permitting.
>
> I'm definitely open to other designs, but given the theme I was
> definitely hoping to see one there.
>
> > May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently
> drawn to building
> > a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking.
>
> Fair question. No, I'm about 6 feet tall. This spring I cracked 230
> pounds, but I hope to never be that heavy again; I'm hoping I'll be
> able to stay 215 and below.
>
> I was fairly interested in HummelBirds for a while, although I am very
> wary of the low gross weight capabilities. I attending their flyin-in
> at Bryan Ohio at sat in Mory's original Hummel Bird prototype. Morry
> Hummel, like many people (particularly pilots) born in the first half
> of the 20th century, was a short thin man with very skinny legs. I
> couldn't give enough clearance to move the stick and still be able to
> get to the throttle. I also sat in an HB built to the "new", slighly
> enlarged plans, and that was reasonable for me to sit in.
>
> I imagine I'll be able to fit in the back cockpit. It's just a matter
> that until I sit in a real one, I don't know much
> shoulder/elbow/rear-end room I'll have. I'd like to have that level
> of experience before I get mentally attached to the design.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Craig Steffen
>
>
Message 56
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 09/12/09 |
Since Brodhead is already a great annual gathering of Piet specific aircraf
t complete with good food, forums and comroderie, why not look at organizin
g a forum or-hands on workshop for new or wood be (spelling pun intention
al) Piet builders.- Then they can walk around the field and gauwk like ev
eryone else at the finished Piets that flew in.- I can think of no better
motivator or setting.
-
Matt Keyes, Richland Center, WI
--- On Sun, 9/13/09, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics
.com> wrote:
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 27 Msgs - 09/12/09
*
========================
---Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View
=html&Chapter 09-09-12&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View
=txt&Chapter 09-09-12&Archive=Pietenpol
======================
---EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
- - - - -----------------------------------------------------
--------
- - - - - - - - - - - - ---Pietenpol-List Dig
est Archive
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
---
- - - - - - - - - ---Total Messages Posted Sat 09/1
2/09: 27
- - - - -----------------------------------------------------
--------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
- ---1. 08:23 AM - Re: Aileron Hinges- (steven sadler)
- ---2. 08:42 AM - Piet builders' workshop- (Oscar Zuniga)
- ---3. 09:31 AM - Windshields- (skellytown flyer)
- ---4. 09:36 AM - Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkos
h? YES- (Craig Steffen)
- ---5. 09:43 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Gary Boothe)
- ---6. 10:16 AM - Re: Windshields- (Jim Markle)
- ---7. 11:16 AM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (amsafetyc@aol.co
m)
- ---8. 12:19 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Dortch, Steven D
MAJ NG NG NGB)
- ---9. 12:24 PM - Re: Windshields- (Gary Boothe)
- - 10. 12:54 PM - Re: Sport Aviation- (Robert Ray)
- - 11. 01:29 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (airlion)
- - 12. 01:35 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (H RULE)
- - 13. 01:54 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (amsafetyc@aol.com)
- - 14. 03:34 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Michael McGowan)
- - 15. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation- (Jack Phillips)
- - 16. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation- (amsafetyc@aol.com)
- - 17. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation- (Lagowski Morrow)
- - 18. 06:42 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Dick N.)
- - 19. 06:48 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (regchief)
- - 20. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Jack Phillips)
- - 21. 07:12 PM - Re: Piet builders' workshop- (Jim)
- - 22. 08:41 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting- (Mike Whaley)
- - 23. 09:42 PM - Re: Sport Aviation- (Mike Whaley)
- - 24. 09:42 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting- (Robert Ray)
- - 25. 11:13 PM - Re: Re: Sport Aviation- (Robert Ray)
- - 26. 11:13 PM - Re: Off topic, but interesting- (Mike Tunnicliffe)
- - 27. 11:13 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine- (Rob
ert Ray)
________________________________- Message 1- __________________________
___________
Time: 08:23:11 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinges
From: steven sadler <steven244sadler@gmail.com>
Shad,
Thanks for the info. It sure is nice to get feedback from the community of
builders.
I have my 2" hinges on order now.
Again, Thanks
Steve
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:55 AM, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I believe Dad's aileron hinges are 2" as well, however I believe his are
> the rolled type, not extruded.- I know the extruded are the recomended
type,
> but the only time I saw them unroll was when I was in a full power dive a
t
> 400mph in a flour bombing contest...ha ha ha.- Either one will work on
a
> piet, just keep them streight when you drill the screw holes or they will
> bind up when moved.
>
> Sometimes even with speed, Less is more. Less speed, less money, more
> longevity,
>
> Shad
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________- Message 2- __________________________
___________
Time: 08:42:39 AM PST US
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it.- Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________- Message 3- __________________________
___________
Time: 09:31:02 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano@att.net>
Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a cou
ple
weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the winds
hields
done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved
shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I ha
ve
seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones
to
even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in flyi
ng
behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turb
ulence
yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appre
ciate
some advice. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
________________________________- Message 4- __________________________
___________
Time: 09:36:31 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
YES
From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen@gmail.com>
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrot
e:
> Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
> Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
> couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
> for things like the Zenith and RV.
The SportAir workshops cover some other of the basic building
techniques.- They have one for composite, and another for fabric
covering, in addition to sheet metal.
>Let's suppose
> someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
> and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
> behind it. Would people come to such an event?
If it was in the middle third of the country, I would.
>I doubt that the Air
> Camper interest would be high enough for more than
> one such event in any given year, and it would
> probably be held in Florida or California.
Well, Florida's doable for me.- California means flying, so I'd have
to decide if it's worth the extra hundreds of dollars to go to one
there.
> I'm not offering to arrange such an event;
Ah...there's the issue.- To make something like this fly, someone has
to put shoulder to the wheel and make it happen.- Beyond that, someone
else has to make the commitment to deliver building materials.
Someone else again has to agree to teach it and come up with enough
exercises.
> I'm just
> wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
> as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
I for one would like to do a weekend's worth of building a wing rib or
two before putting money down on plans for Pietenpol or some such.- If
one were offered, say, in the next year and a half, I'd definitely be
interested.
My take:
I think that a Pietenpol-specific workship is a mistake.- What people
really want to do is spend a weekend learning the techniques to build
a wood airplane, and to see if they like it.- So cutting wood into
capstrips and the like, building a rib, varnishing, sanding, and
whatever else it is that you do.- Any wood airplanes are going to have
all those same steps, so there's no reason to specialize the workshop.
I think the best chance to make something like this happen is as
follows.- Sportair is headquartered in Oshkosh, Wisonsin.- At the
Oshkosh location and no other, they have the "Discover Aircraft
Building" course.
http://www.sportair.com/workshops/Discover Aircraft Building.html
That course is four-courses in one over a weekend.- They do half a day
each on wood construction, fabric covering, sheet metal and composite.
I actually called- SportAir this last week asking about a wood
construction course, and they told me that they didn't do it any more
for lack of interest.- It might be worth asking them how many people
would need to sign up for them to offer the course again.- They might
be willing to do a one-off run of the course.
SportAir does their workshops at Oshkosh in January; in 2010 it's
going to be January 30 and 31.- The question then, is, how many folks
on this list would sign up to take that course if they offered it.- If
Sportair offered the wood construction course this coming January 30
and 31, at the same time as the other SportAir workshops, for, say,
$250, would anyone on this list take it?
I'm sort of interested in Pietenpols, and wood building in general. I
would definitely take it.
Craig Steffen
southeast Kentucky
________________________________- Message 5- __________________________
___________
Time: 09:43:35 AM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar,
Not that it's not a good idea, but I probably would not attend. We (N.
California Pietenpol builders) are attacking from a different battle plan:
We have so far gathered a loose list of about 12-14 builders, owners and
interested individuals, who are all gathering for the first time next week
on September 19. The meeting will be at a centrally located builder's house
,
Mike Weaver, where we will spend an inordinate amount of time
"strategorizing" about how we will complete a large squadron of Pietenpols
so that we can attack and over-run Brodhead. It's a complex battle plan,
requiring individual effort, group co-ordination, and determination to make
that long flight.
I know you have a number of builders and owners in Texas, and could
undoubtedly do something similar. We might consider joining forces, but we
don't have a cool battle cry like, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!", but we might come
up with something next weekend, like.... "SURF'S UP, DUDE!"
Anyhow, like MC says, "I digress." The main thing is that it has been an
enormous boost to me to have local builders who are friends and are good
sources of info and assistance. This List is obviously that way, too, but
there is nothing like face-to-face camaraderie. And, as you say, we are
certainly individualists.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zunig
a
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it.- Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________- Message 6- __________________________
___________
Time: 10:16:52 AM PST US
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
One of the best ideas I've seen is what Larry Prange up in NW Washington St
ate
did....
He cut several different size windshield patterns out of some kind of fairl
y stiff
posterboard.- He then started his Model A engine and sat inside the plane
.
While he was sitting there he held up the windshield patterns, tilted them,
moved them around, etc, until he found a size and angle that gave him what
he
wanted for wind deflection.
That does mean waiting until the engine is running but...why not?- The wi
ndshield
doesn't have to be done until the very end unless you want it sooner.
That just seemed like a pretty neat idea to me....
Jim in NE Oklahoma
-----Original Message-----
>From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
>
>
>Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a co
uple
weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the winds
hields
done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved
shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I ha
ve
seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones
to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in f
lying
behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turb
ulence
yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appre
ciate
some advice. Raymond
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
>
>
________________________________- Message 7- __________________________
___________
Time: 11:16:32 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
Oscar
There are 3 groups of people in this
People that have piets
People building piets
People interested in building
Why go east and west
Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can attend and n
o one
is required cross country
Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin- by or through chicago by car
or air
There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no stinkin Bo
x O
Airplane- factory guy more like component guys are better wicks, ac spruc
e craftsman,
roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henrob.- Guys that stand to make
a buck from piet builders and see if they will lend or send- demo guys, i
nstructors
and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys.
I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee. Naturally p
art
of the program will have to point towards intellectual issues like understa
nding
the prints, making inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a nationa
l
network of in process builders in the area to help out
Just some thoughts
Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and ho
mbuilders
sites will provide access to the larger market that do no know about this
board. I believe the market is much larger than we really know.
How's that for ideas and comment?
John
------Original Message------
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it.- Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________- Message 8- __________________________
___________
Time: 12:19:20 PM PST US
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar, How about holding one in the Grand Republic of Texas? Centralized an
d good
weather. Heck their is an airport near SA that would be great.
OR an alternative to a national meeting is what the Bonanza people do (I kn
ow A
spam can but a nice spam can) and that is to plan events in different regio
ns.
OR tie in with an EAA group and host an event that is focused on Pietenpol
building
skills that different homebuilders can attend.
Blue Skies,
Steve "The Good Idea Faery" D.
Yes, I own a 1948 Beech Bonanza, It came as a kit, (that you disassembled,
fixed
and made parts and then reassembled.)
8T8 and working in Austin.
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
>
> Oscar
>
> There are 3 groups of people in this
>
> People that have piets
> People building piets
> People interested in building
>
> Why go east and west
>
> Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can
> attend and no one is required cross country
>
> Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin by or through chicago
> by car or air
>
> There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no
> stinkin Box O Airplane factory guy more like component guys are
> better wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller
> electric, henrob. Guys that stand to make a buck from piet
> builders and see if they will lend or send demo guys, instructors
> and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys.
>
> I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee.
> Naturally part of the program will have to point towards
> intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making
> inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a national network
> of in process builders in the area to help out
>
> Just some thoughts
>
> Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA,
> POA and hombuilders sites will provide access to the larger market
> that do no know about this board. I believe the market is much
> larger than we really know.
>
> How's that for ideas and comment?
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Oscar Zuniga
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol builders Board
> ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
> Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
>
>
>
> Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
> Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
> couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
> for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
> someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
> and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
> behind it. Would people come to such an event?
>
> The big builders' workshops have both east and west
> coast venues due to the high interest in some of
> the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
> Camper interest would be high enough for more than
> one such event in any given year, and it would
> probably be held in Florida or California.
>
> I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
> wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
> as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
> My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
> personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
> since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
> group setting would not really interest too many of
> the type of people who want to build Piets.
>
> Comments?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________- Message 9- __________________________
___________
Time: 12:24:06 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
Raymond,
Sounds to me a lot like picking a woman...
But, Jim may have just posted the end-all, be-all post on the matter!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
One of the best ideas I've seen is what Larry Prange up in NW Washington
State did....
He cut several different size windshield patterns out of some kind of fairl
y
stiff posterboard.- He then started his Model A engine and sat inside the
plane.- While he was sitting there he held up the windshield patterns,
tilted them, moved them around, etc, until he found a size and angle that
gave him what he wanted for wind deflection.
That does mean waiting until the engine is running but...why not?- The
windshield doesn't have to be done until the very end unless you want it
sooner.
That just seemed like a pretty neat idea to me....
Jim in NE Oklahoma
-----Original Message-----
>From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
>
>
>Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a
couple weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get th
e
windshields done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a
single curved shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast
Piet site I have seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide
almost vertical ones to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that
have experience in flying behind them can give me your take on what works
best to give the least turbulence yet minimal drag. they probably don't go
well together but anyway-I'd appreciate some advice. Raymond
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
>
>
________________________________- Message 10- _________________________
___________
Time: 12:54:43 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Oh I see well they are going to hear from me if they want my 50 dollars
they'll have to do better than that!
Russell
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Darrel Jones <wd6bor@vom.com> wrote:
>
> AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>- Don't hold back tell us what you really think. Maybe you should go to
the
>> assertiveness training class also. No sense letting the message get lost
by
>> being timid.---John
>>---Do not archive
>> *
>> *
>>
> Aw, Mike, don't sugar coat it. Tell it like it really is.
>
> I was also very disappointed that the Pietenpols didn't get a feature
> article for the 80th anniversary. They can make it up in the next issue o
nly
> if they have the feature article AND also put a Pietenpol on the front co
ver
> again.
>
> Darrel
>
>
________________________________- Message 11- _________________________
___________
Time: 01:29:44 PM PST US
From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Now if we can just get some of those northern piets to come south to georgi
a or
texas we could have some great fun. I have been to C37 3 times and it is gr
eat
and they do a wonderful job.- I suggest Carrolton, Ga. because the have a
great
facility. That is where the Big Piet buillders are . I am just south of the
re
in Lagrange, and besides me there are two others building. How about it pie
ters?
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.- PS I am getting tire
d
of trying to read some of the listings. Is that what they call texting? Or
do some of the listers are just trying to be funny? I don't understand half
of
it since I am kind of slow. Cheers, Gardiner Mason.---"GEORGIA ON MY
MIND"
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:33:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar,
Not that it's not a good idea, but I probably would not attend. We (N.
California Pietenpol builders) are attacking from a different battle plan:
We have so far gathered a loose list of about 12-14 builders, owners and
interested individuals, who are all gathering for the first time next week
on September 19. The meeting will be at a centrally located builder's house
,
Mike Weaver, where we will spend an inordinate amount of time
"strategorizing" about how we will complete a large squadron of Pietenpols
so that we can attack and over-run Brodhead. It's a complex battle plan,
requiring individual effort, group co-ordination, and determination to make
that long flight.
I know you have a number of builders and owners in Texas, and could
undoubtedly do something similar. We might consider joining forces, but we
don't have a cool battle cry like, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!", but we might come
up with something next weekend, like.... "SURF'S UP, DUDE!"
Anyhow, like MC says, "I digress." The main thing is that it has been an
enormous boost to me to have local builders who are friends and are good
sources of info and assistance. This List is obviously that way, too, but
there is nothing like face-to-face camaraderie. And, as you say, we are
certainly individualists.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zunig
a
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it.- Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________- Message 12- _________________________
___________
Time: 01:35:22 PM PST US
From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Don't forget those that have GN-1 Aircampers and like to call them piets=
0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "amsafetyc@a
ol.com" <a
msafetyc@aol.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol builders Board <pietenpol-list@matronic
s.
com>=0ASent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:15:59 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pie
tenp
amsafetyc@aol.com=0A=0AOscar=0A=0AThere are 3 groups of people in t
his=0A
=0APeople that have piets=0APeople building piets=0APeople interested
in bu
ilding=0A=0AWhy go east and west=0A=0AWhy not one event in the midd
le of th
e country so everyone can attend and no one is required cross country=0A
=0A
Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin- by or through chicago by car
or air=0A=0AThere are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't ne
ed
no stinkin Box O Airplane- factory guy more like component guys are bette
r wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henr
ob.- Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if they wi
ll lend or send- demo guys, instructors and class practice supplies and o
r displays with answer guys. =0A=0AI wonder how many would be intereste
d in
that for a modest fee. Naturally part of the program will have to point to
wards intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making inferential
decisions, pre build decisions and a national network of in process builde
rs in the area to help out=0A=0AJust some thoughts=0A=0AAlso not al
l builde
rs know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and hombuilders sites wil
l provide access to the larger market that do no know about this board. I b
elieve the market is much larger than we really know. =0A=0AHow's that
for
ideas and comment?=0A=0AJohn=0A------Original Message------=0AFrom:
Oscar Z
uniga=0ASender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0ATo: Pietenp
ol b
uilders Board=0AReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board=0ASent: Sep 12, 2009
11:2
9 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop=0A=0A--> Piet
enpol-
List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>=0A=0A=0A
Well,
let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft=0ASpruce, and others hold bui
lders' workshops a=0Acouple of times a year at different venues, mostly
=0Af
or things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose=0Asomeone organized an A
ir Camper builders' workshop=0Aand got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircra
ft
Spruce=0Abehind it.- Would people come to such an event?=0A=0AThe big
bu
ilders' workshops have both east and west=0Acoast venues due to the high
in
terest in some of=0Athe plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air=0
AC
amper interest would be high enough for more than=0Aone such event in any
g
iven year, and it would=0Aprobably be held in Florida or California.=0A
=0AI
'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just=0Awondering if scratch
b
uilders are of the same mindset=0Aas kit builders in wanting to attend a
gr
oup workshop.=0AMy opinion is that we are mostly individualists and=0Ap
erso
nal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely=0Asince I am not particu
la
rly crafty), and that a=0Agroup setting would not really interest too man
y
of=0Athe type of people who want to build Piets.=0A=0AComments?=0A
=0AOscar
Zuniga=0AAir Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio, TX=0Amailto: taildrags@hotm
ail.co
m=0Awebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0ASent from my
=
________________________________- Message 13- _________________________
___________
Time: 01:54:08 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
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IGFuZCBpdCB3b3VsZA0KcHJvYmFibHkgYmUgaGVsZCBpbiBGbG9yaWRhIG9yIENhbGlmb3JuaWE
u
DQoNCkknbSBub3Qgb2ZmZXJpbmcgdG8gYXJyYW5nZSBzdWNoIGFuIGV2ZW50OyBJJ20ganVzdA0
K
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U2VudCBmcm9tIG15ID09PQ0KDQo
________________________________- Message 14- _________________________
___________
Time: 03:34:51 PM PST US
From: "Michael McGowan" <shadetree@socket.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Maybe Wicks would sponser a workshop at their place. They have the wood,
they have the equipment, they have the woodworking expertise,- and we
could all pick up wood and supplies while we were there and they would
make money. We would also get to see some really neat pipe organs and
how they build them.
Mike just getting started
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: amsafetyc@aol.com
- To: Pietenpol builders Board
- Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:52 PM
- Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
- Actually I figured the too were part of the group. I am not going to
exclude them I would rather they did participate and the 612 rib guys
- John
- Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
- From: H RULE
- Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
- To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
- Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
- Don't forget those that have GN-1 Aircampers and like to call them
piets
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
- From: "amsafetyc@aol.com" <amsafetyc@aol.com>
- To: Pietenpol builders Board <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
- Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:15:59 PM
- Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
- Oscar
- There are 3 groups of people in this
- People that have piets
- People building piets
- People interested in building
- Why go east and west
- Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can attend
and no one is required cross country
- Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin- by or through chicago by
car or air
- There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no
stinkin Box O Airplane- factory guy more like component guys are better
wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric,
henrob.- Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if
they will lend or send- demo guys, instructors and class practice
supplies and or displays with answer guys.
- I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee.
Naturally part of the program will have to point towards intellectual
issues like understanding the prints, making inferential decisions, pre
build decisions and a national network of in process builders in the
area to help out
- Just some thoughts
- Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA
and hombuilders sites will provide access to the larger market that do
no know about this board. I believe the market is much larger than we
really know.
- How's that for ideas and comment?
- John
- ------Original Message------
- From: Oscar Zuniga
- Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
- To: Pietenpol builders Board
- ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
- Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
- Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
- Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft
- Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
- couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
- for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose
- someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
- and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
- behind it.- Would people come to such an event?
- The big builders' workshops have both east and west
- coast venues due to the high interest in some of
- the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air
- Camper interest would be high enough for more than
- one such event in any given year, and it would
- probably be held in Florida or California.
- I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
- wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
- as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
- My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
- personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
- since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
- group setting would not really interest too many of
- the type of people who want to build Piets.
- Comments?
- Oscar Zuniga
- Air Camper NX41CC
- San Antonio, TX
- mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
- website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
- Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlList"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="
http://forums.matronics.com/" nbsp; -->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
=B7=9B~=89=ED=B2,=DE=03g('=8A=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE
________________________________- Message 15- _________________________
___________
Time: 05:43:12 PM PST US
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
Tom Poberezny:
Tom Poberezny
President, Experimental Aircraft Association
P.O. Box 3086
Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- -
-- August 3rd,
2009
Dear Mr. Poberezny,
I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membershi
p
to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.- I
understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to
get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this news, a
s
I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was t
hat
I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour
pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at the
end
of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuil
t
Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to celebr
ate
the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd man
out
(which was me) did not get to fly.
I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time t
o
be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is unclea
r
to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EAA ha
s
demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particularly
plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so w
e
get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President
of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board
.
I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.-
I
am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft
,
preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much
richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is stil
l
the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
Sincerely,
Jack Phillips
EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003)
Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
2005)
cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter
,
without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
Jack,
Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future,
and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid
comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and a
t
the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do
better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and
Joe
Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
Please know that your thoughts are important.
Regards,
Tom
Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
Chairman of the Board & President
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
Phone: 920.426.4810
Fax: 920.426.4878
www.eaa.org
See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do think i
t
is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The
"E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stand
s
for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is
a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and
that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.-
I
realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely hav
e
no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and
as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the
virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
visit to Oshkosh, an!
d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected
to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the worl
d
where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft
,
in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
place for only one week of the year.
It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed
a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
________________________________- Message 16- _________________________
___________
Time: 05:58:54 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
Jack
Well done it appears to me that the EAA is now upside down in its approach
to honoring
its roots which should always be first and the centerpiece.
Without wilbur and orvile there would be no piper jet or big honkin airbus
380.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
Tom Poberezny:
Tom Poberezny
President, Experimental Aircraft Association
P.O. Box 3086
Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - August 3rd,
2009
Dear Mr. Poberezny,
I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membershi
p
to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.- I
understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to
get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this news, a
s
I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was t
hat
I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour
pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at the
end
of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuil
t
Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to celebr
ate
the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd man
out
(which was me) did not get to fly.
I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time t
o
be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is unclea
r
to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EAA ha
s
demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particularly
plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so w
e
get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President
of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board
.
I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.-
I
am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft
,
preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much
richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is stil
l
the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
Sincerely,
Jack Phillips
EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003)
Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
2005)
cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter
,
without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
Jack,
Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future,
and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid
comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and a
t
the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do
better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and
Joe
Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
Please know that your thoughts are important.
Regards,
Tom
Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
Chairman of the Board & President
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
Phone: 920.426.4810
Fax: 920.426.4878
www.eaa.org
See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do think i
t
is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The
"E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stand
s
for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is
a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and
that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.-
I
realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely hav
e
no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and
as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the
virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
visit to Oshkosh, an!
d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected
to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the worl
d
where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft
,
in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
place for only one week of the year.
It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed
a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
________________________________- Message 17- _________________________
___________
Time: 06:21:35 PM PST US
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
Jack, Thank you for your thoughtful and to the point comments!--Jim Lagowsk
i
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
> Tom Poberezny:
>
> Tom Poberezny
> President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> P.O. Box 3086
> Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> August 3rd,
> 2009
> Dear Mr. Poberezny,
>
> I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the members
hip
> to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
> heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.-
I
> understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try
> to
> get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this news,
as
> I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
>
> I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
> its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis
on
> homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
> seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
>
> Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
> Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over th
e
> mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was
> that
> I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
> On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end o
f
> 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
> hour
> pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at th
e
> end
> of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
> Homebuilt
> Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to
> celebrate
> the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd ma
n
> out
> (which was me) did not get to fly.
>
> I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time
> to
> be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is uncl
ear
> to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EAA
has
> demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particular
ly
> plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so
> we
> get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
>
> I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
> President
> of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
> Board.
> I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.
- I
> am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
> However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
> aircraft,
> preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currentl
y
> building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
> much
> richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is st
ill
> the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Jack Phillips
> EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
> 2003)
> Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
> 2005)
>
> cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
>
>
> To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
> letter,
> without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
>
> Jack,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
> future,
> and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid
> comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and
at
> the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to
> do
> better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, an
d Joe
> Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
> Please know that your thoughts are important.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> Chairman of the Board & President
> EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> Phone: 920.426.4810
> Fax: 920.426.4878
>
> www.eaa.org
>
> See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
>
> Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davi
s
> on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do think
it
> is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Church
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
> The
> "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
> stands
> for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there
> is
> a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
> and
> that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.
> I
> realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
> have
> no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and woul
d
> much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
> and
> as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
> the
> virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
> visit to Oshkosh, an!
> d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
> connected
> to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
> manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
> ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
> world
> where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
> airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
> aircraft,
> in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkos
h
> can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few)
.
> Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
> place for only one week of the year.
> It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
> the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going t
o
> play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
> article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
> needed
> a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
>
>
>
________________________________- Message 18- _________________________
___________
Time: 06:42:01 PM PST US
From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
I would like to weigh in on this.- There has been an informal Piet builde
rs
workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now.- We can't actually call it that
,
but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet
people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone.- Tha
t
has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved
with it.- Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd.- A couple of years ag
o it
was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial
Piet.- We are open to projects and participation.- If anyone has a proj
ect
to make some fast progress on let me know.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it.- Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________- Message 19- _________________________
___________
Time: 06:48:47 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet builders' workshop
From: "regchief" <kbosley@comcast.net>
how about someone just producing a good video series. I would love to see s
ome
training vids on piet building.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262743#262743
________________________________- Message 20- _________________________
___________
Time: 06:54:33 PM PST US
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Buy Mike Cuy's excellent video on building and flying his Piet.- You can
get
it at:- http://www.flyingwood.com/NX48MC.htm
It is almost as useful as the set of 4 Tony Bingelis books.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of regchief
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet builders' workshop
how about someone just producing a good video series. I would love to see
some training vids on piet building.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262743#262743
________________________________- Message 21- _________________________
___________
Time: 07:12:19 PM PST US
From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar;
Why not tie an event like a Piet "wood" builders event in with Copperstate
at Casa
Grande, AZ in- October? This Oct may be too soon (or not) but next year g
ives
13 months to plan and organize it.
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
On Sep 12, 2009, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________- Message 22- _________________________
___________
Time: 08:41:43 PM PST US
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-attack
aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco)
it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
there :)
Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven
technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a
big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it
is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens t
o
be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
information.
Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at ou
r
EAA meeting the other night.
Shad
________________________________- Message 23- _________________________
___________
Time: 09:42:00 PM PST US
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
Jack et al,
I certainly think that many folks agree, in all or part, with many of your
points and concerns. But to be fair, let's not forget that in the past year
or so, EAA has launched the new "Experimenter" newsletter, which is very
much oriented towards the scratch-builder/experimental aspects... and bette
r
yet, has made it available to all who want it, not just EAA members. EAA, a
s
wonderful and skilled as they are in many areas, still suffers from the sam
e
problem that most EAA chapters, churches, civic organizations, online
communities, and virtually every other group on earth faces... the same
small core group of folks does most of the work, and there's always much
more to do than there are folks willing and/or able to do it. EAA actually
gets things done better than most groups overall, I think. That's not to sa
y
that they shouldn't have covered the Piets... or the T-28 anniversary... or
even the nearly NTSB-investigation-worthy arrival of the A380. But Sport
Aviation would have to be 400 pages long to cover everything properly, and
it would take 5 months to write, edit, and produce! They're human and have
deadlines and make mistakes (heck, last month's Sport Pilot had a very
noticeable typo... right on the cover!) Not the end of the world, but a
reminder that things do slip through the cracks, even in the big leagues.
I'm not saying it's acceptable that they didn't cover the Piets at all, BUT
I strongly suspect that it was little more than an embarassing oversight,
not a wilful desire to cut the Piets out, and they might even be very
embarassed over it, now that they've been made aware of the oversight.
As for the fly-bys, I remember the same kind of issues becoming apparent
when they had 7 different Trimotors doing fly-bys a few years ago... we all
could have watched it all day, but they only were able to do it for a very
few minutes, despite the truly historic nature of such a collection (only
about 4 were Fords... one was a Junkers, one was a seaplane, I think there
was something else too...) It does sound like it ended up being a mess but
given the insane air traffic situation there, it's possible there's more to
it than one or two guys dropping the ball. Heck, some of that could have
come down from the FAA or even their insurance carriers, who knows. Maybe
they're just trying to cram in too much for the time they alotted. The best
thing to do is to thoroughly document the problems and who said and did
what, and let them know (which you already did)... and give them a chance t
o
correct it.
EAA isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than any other group at
supporting the kind of aviation we all enjoy, and is vital in keeping thing
s
going in the face of a government that gets more oppressive by the day
towards aviation. They need our support and turning these problems into a
lets-bash-EAA party WILL hurt us. So...
Let's adopt the homebuilder spirit here and offer positive solutions and
ideas, and move on from there. Sure there should have been at least a
paragraph of two and a photo in with the rest of all the OSH coverage, but
let's encourage them to consider publishing a full article in an upcoming
issue that will provide more room for real info. Maybe they're already
planning this, who knows. Those of you who directly took part might even
write something yourselves, I just bet they'd welcome it.
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
> Tom Poberezny:
>
> Tom Poberezny
> President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> P.O. Box 3086
> Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> August 3rd,
> 2009
> Dear Mr. Poberezny,
>
> I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the members
hip
> to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
> heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.-
I
> understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try
to
> get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this news,
as
> I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
>
> I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
> its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis
on
> homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
> seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
>
> Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
> Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over th
e
> mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was
that
> I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
> On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end o
f
> 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
hour
> pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at th
e
end
> of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
Homebuilt
> Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to
celebrate
> the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd ma
n
out
> (which was me) did not get to fly.
>
> I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time
to
> be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is uncl
ear
> to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EAA
has
> demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particular
ly
> plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so
we
> get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
>
> I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
President
> of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
Board.
> I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.
- I
> am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
> However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
aircraft,
> preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currentl
y
> building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
much
> richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is st
ill
> the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Jack Phillips
> EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
2003)
> Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
> 2005)
>
> cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
>
>
> To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
letter,
> without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
>
> Jack,
>
>- Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
future,
> and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid
> comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and
at
> the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to
do
> better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, an
d Joe
> Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
> Please know that your thoughts are important.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> Chairman of the Board & President
> EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> Phone: 920.426.4810
> Fax: 920.426.4878
>
> www.eaa.org
>
>- See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
>
> Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davi
s
> on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do think
it
> is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
<billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
The
> "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
stands
> for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there
is
> a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
and
> that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.
I
> realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
have
> no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and woul
d
> much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
and
> as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
the
> virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
> visit to Oshkosh, an!
>- d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
connected
> to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
> manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
> ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
world
> where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
> airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
aircraft,
> in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkos
h
> can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few)
.
> Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
> place for only one week of the year.
> It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
> the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going t
o
> play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
> article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
needed
> a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
>
>
________________________________- Message 24- _________________________
___________
Time: 09:42:00 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden fighters
in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies
were cut off we could still get a plane in the air.
Russell
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-atta
ck
> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco
)
> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
> there :)
>
> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "prov
en
> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
>
> Mike Whaley
> MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
>
> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had
a
> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so
it
> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens
> to
> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
> information.
>
> Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at
> our
> EAA meeting the other night.
>
> Shad
>
>
________________________________- Message 25- _________________________
___________
Time: 11:13:18 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Well said,
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:29 AM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Jack et al,
>
> I certainly think that many folks agree, in all or part, with many of you
r
> points and concerns. But to be fair, let's not forget that in the past ye
ar
> or so, EAA has launched the new "Experimenter" newsletter, which is very
> much oriented towards the scratch-builder/experimental aspects... and
> better
> yet, has made it available to all who want it, not just EAA members. EAA,
> as
> wonderful and skilled as they are in many areas, still suffers from the
> same
> problem that most EAA chapters, churches, civic organizations, online
> communities, and virtually every other group on earth faces... the same
> small core group of folks does most of the work, and there's always much
> more to do than there are folks willing and/or able to do it. EAA actuall
y
> gets things done better than most groups overall, I think. That's not to
> say
> that they shouldn't have covered the Piets... or the T-28 anniversary...
or
> even the nearly NTSB-investigation-worthy arrival of the A380. But Sport
> Aviation would have to be 400 pages long to cover everything properly, an
d
> it would take 5 months to write, edit, and produce! They're human and hav
e
> deadlines and make mistakes (heck, last month's Sport Pilot had a very
> noticeable typo... right on the cover!) Not the end of the world, but a
> reminder that things do slip through the cracks, even in the big leagues.
> I'm not saying it's acceptable that they didn't cover the Piets at all, B
UT
> I strongly suspect that it was little more than an embarassing oversight,
> not a wilful desire to cut the Piets out, and they might even be very
> embarassed over it, now that they've been made aware of the oversight.
>
> As for the fly-bys, I remember the same kind of issues becoming apparent
> when they had 7 different Trimotors doing fly-bys a few years ago... we a
ll
> could have watched it all day, but they only were able to do it for a ver
y
> few minutes, despite the truly historic nature of such a collection (only
> about 4 were Fords... one was a Junkers, one was a seaplane, I think ther
e
> was something else too...) It does sound like it ended up being a mess bu
t
> given the insane air traffic situation there, it's possible there's more
to
> it than one or two guys dropping the ball. Heck, some of that could have
> come down from the FAA or even their insurance carriers, who knows. Maybe
> they're just trying to cram in too much for the time they alotted. The be
st
> thing to do is to thoroughly document the problems and who said and did
> what, and let them know (which you already did)... and give them a chance
> to
> correct it.
>
> EAA isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than any other group at
> supporting the kind of aviation we all enjoy, and is vital in keeping
> things
> going in the face of a government that gets more oppressive by the day
> towards aviation. They need our support and turning these problems into a
> lets-bash-EAA party WILL hurt us. So...
>
> Let's adopt the homebuilder spirit here and offer positive solutions and
> ideas, and move on from there. Sure there should have been at least a
> paragraph of two and a photo in with the rest of all the OSH coverage, bu
t
> let's encourage them to consider publishing a full article in an upcoming
> issue that will provide more room for real info. Maybe they're already
> planning this, who knows. Those of you who directly took part might even
> write something yourselves, I just bet they'd welcome it.
>
> -Mike
>
> Mike Whaley
> MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
> Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
>
> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> >
> > After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter
to
> > Tom Poberezny:
> >
> > Tom Poberezny
> > President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> > P.O. Box 3086
> > Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> > August 3rd,
> > 2009
> > Dear Mr. Poberezny,
> >
> > I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> > Association.- Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the
> membership
> > to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization i
s
> > heading.- The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> > resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated.
- I
> > understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should tr
y
> to
> > get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft.- I applauded this new
s,
> as
> > I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
> >
> > I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through wi
th
> > its promises.- Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasi
s on
> > homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a bac
k
> > seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
> >
> > Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina
to
> > Oshkosh.- The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over
the
> > mountains in Virginia).- The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up w
as
> that
> > I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Revie
w.
> > On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end
> of
> > 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
> hour
> > pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review.- However, once down at
the
> end
> > of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
> Homebuilt
> > Review was being cut short.- There were three Pietenpols there, to
> celebrate
> > the 80th anniversary of the type.- We had to flip a coin and the odd
man
> out
> > (which was me) did not get to fly.
> >
> > I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> > flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight ti
me
> to
> > be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet.- It is
> unclear
> > to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft.- Once again, EA
A
> has
> > demonstrated that what matters most is money.- Homebuilders (particul
arly
> > plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars,
so
> we
> > get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
> >
> > I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
> President
> > of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
> Board.
> > I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> > expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.
>- I
> > am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles progra
m.
> > However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> > successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
> aircraft,
> > preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and
> currently
> > building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
> much
> > richer).- I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is
> still
> > the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
> 2003)
> > Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVentur
e
> > 2005)
> >
> > cc:- Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
> >
> >
> >
> > To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
> letter,
> > without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
> >
> > Jack,
> >
> >- Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
> future,
> > and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh.- I appreciate your candid
> > comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> > organization.- Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, a
nd
> at
> > the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue t
o
> do
> > better.---My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith,
and Joe
> > Norris.- Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meeting
s.
> > Please know that your thoughts are important.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> > Chairman of the Board & President
> > EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> > Phone: 920.426.4810
> > Fax: 920.426.4878
> >
> > www.eaa.org
> >
> >- See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
> >
> > Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry
> Davis
> > on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick.- I do thi
nk
> it
> > is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> > Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > NX899JP- "Icarus Plummet"
> > Raleigh, NC
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Church
> > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
> >
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
> >
> > Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
> The
> > "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
> stands
> > for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> > factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" ther
e
> is
> > a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> > definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
> and
> > that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization
.
> I
> > realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
> have
> > no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and
> would
> > much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
> and
> > as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
> the
> > virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> > North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my fir
st
> > visit to Oshkosh, an!
> >- d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
> connected
> > to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did n
ot
> > manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so
it
> > ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
> world
> > where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible dai
ly
> > airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
> aircraft,
> > in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that
> Oshkosh
> > can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a
> few).
> > Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> > co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one sma
ll
> > place for only one week of the year.
> > It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost
in
> > the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going
> to
> > play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't a
n
> > article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> > they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
> needed
> > a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
> >
> > Bill C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________- Message 26- _________________________
___________
Time: 11:13:18 PM PST US
From: Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Hi, the British actually did, and it was one of the most successfull
designs of the war, my daytime job is restoring one, the DH 98 Mosquito
fighter / bomber.
Regards Mike T.
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: Robert Ray
- To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
- Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:33 PM
- Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
- Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden
fighters
- in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies
- were cut off we could still get a plane in the air.
- Russell
- On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
wrote:
<MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
- - In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
light-attack
- - aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated
Bronco)
- - it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered
for
- - consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighte
r
- - design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite
biased
- - there :)
- - Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's
gotta be
- - stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
"proven
- - technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
- - Mike Whaley
- - MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
- - ----- Original Message -----
- - From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
- - To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
- - Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
- - Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
- - Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51
mustang? It
- - was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970.
It had a
- - big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air
force so it
- - is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just
happens to
- - be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for
some
- - photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know
"
- - information.
- - Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo
pepper at our
- - EAA meeting the other night.
- - st Un/Subscription,
- - www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
- - ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
- - Matt Dralle, List Admin.
- - ===
________________________________- Message 27- _________________________
___________
Time: 11:13:20 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
No I'm very concerned about the heat resistance of my epoxy and the
temperature that it burns, it is a thermal plastic
and when it catches it burns like gasoline so as I said before I am very
critical of the epoxy in the areas of the firewall
and with good reason. I have tested it in the oven and there is a reason
also that most fiberglass airplanes are painted
white, there is a reason that epoxy must be reinforced with screws in
construction in areas such as attics where there
is high heat. T-88 probably has the best heat resistance but then again if
there is a high quality glue that has better
heat resistance in the area of the fire wall then I will use it on my plane
.
Russell
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote
:
>- Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans.
>
> On another point...
> I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that catches
> fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my epoxy stan
ds
> up to this heat".
>
> BC
>
> **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 57
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Subject: | Re: Jim M. welding aluminum |
Cool stuff Jim! I need to make some progress like that.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263078#263078
Message 58
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Subject: | Ryan and Jess Mueller, famous radio subjects and Piet |
builders
Hey Ryan,
I called my parents tonight on my way to the EAA meeting, and my dad mentioned
that he was listening to WGN radio (Chicago) the other night and they were talking
about a husband and wife team that was building a Pietenpol in their one-room
apartment in the city. I told my dad there could only be one of those in
this world, and that I knew those people. I guess it was also mentioned that they
(you) were at Brodhead over the weekend. What's the story on this???
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 59
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|
Subject: | Jim Markle alum welding |
Jim,
Beautiful welds!! Lets see some pics of the whole tank!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 60
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|
Subject: | Re: Off topic, but interesting |
Here is the source for the Piper Enforcer and "photo" of the OV-10X:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/09/photo-boeing-pitches-o
v-10x-br.html
I've posted more info about the Boeing's OV-10X project over the past months
here:
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
-M
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 11:33 PM
Subject: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> Interesting story, either way. It was suggested that Piper is trying
> something like that today, per the article Mike W mentioned where it said
> exactly that.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > It was in the 1970's that I was seeing the drawings with my friend. I
> > don't believe that anyone has suggested that Piper is trying anything
like
> > this today. Maybe I am thinking about sa different aircraft, or maybe
he
> > was working on the aircraft as you describe.
> >
> > Gene
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
> > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:49 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> >
> > Your friend must be thinking of some other aircraft. That, or the folks
at
> > Dayton (and many other sources) are incorrect:
> >
> > http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614
> >
> > Insofar as it being smaller, not so much. Here's a P-51Ds basic
> > measurements:
> >
> > Length: 32.25'
> > Wingspan: 37.04'
> > Height: 13.67'
> >
> > And the P-48:
> >
> > Length: 34.17'
> > Wingspan: 41.33'
> > Height: 13.08'
> >
> > As you can see, the P-48 is not quite 2" longer and has a wingspan
that's a
> > hair over 4' longer (per the tip tanks, I would think). As far being
1/2"
> > shorter, I can't account for that. Since it is based on a P-51 it's an
old
> > airframe...as we age we're supposed to become a little bit shorter;
maybe
> > that's it. :P
> >
> > The Enforcer itself was not a clean sheet design by Piper. It was a
product
> > of the people at Cavalier Aircraft, the Mustang conversion people. It
was an
> > evolution of their Mustang II, an extensively modified P-51 that was
> > exported to various countries for use in counter-insurgency/CAS roles.
They
> > called it the Turbo Mustang III, with the major mod to it being the
> > installation of a Rolls Royce Dart turboprop. They never got anywhere
trying
> > to sell it to the military, so they sold the design to Piper. Piper
> > reengined the design with a Lycoming T-55 and named it the P-48
Enforcer.
> >
> > I would be very surprised if the P-48 were to receive even remote
> > consideration in the USAF competition. Maybe they are only looking at
> > drawings and specs at this point, and not actual aircraft; there are no
> > flying P-48s. How Piper would produce one in this economy is a bit
> > mind-boggling. They may have production equipment and drawings for all
of
> > the conversion parts that Cavalier designed, but they shouldn't have any
> > tooling to produce a basic airframe with. Cavalier never produced
airframes;
> > they were scarfing up surplus Mustangs in the 60s, and building all of
their
> > various models of aircraft off of the basic Mustang airframe. It was
> > obviously modified, extensively with some models, but it was the
starting
> > point. Don't get me wrong, if Piper wants to engineer tooling and
equipment
> > to start producing brand new P-51 Mustang airframes you won't find me
> > complaining....just sounds a little ridiculous to me. :P
> >
> > Have a good morning everyone!
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >> A friend of mine was one of, if not the chief designer of the Piper
> >> Enforcer, and as I recall it was not based on a Mustang, although it
looked
> >> somewhat like one. I believe it was quite a bit smaller. He was
showing me
> >> design drawings almost from the start.
> >>
> >> Gene
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
> >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:40 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> >>
> >> MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com>
> >>
> >> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
> >> light-attack
> >> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated
Bronco)
> >> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
> >> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
> >> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite
biased
> >> there :)
> >>
> >> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta
be
> >> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
> >> "proven
> >> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
> >>
> >> Mike Whaley
> >> MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
> >> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
> >> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang?
It
> >> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It
had
> >> a
> >> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force
so
> >> it
> >> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just
happens
> >> to
> >> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
> >> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
> >> information.
> >>
> >> *
> >
> > title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
Message 61
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Subject: | Re: Vertical offset |
Nice and Simple
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Walt%20Bowe/IMG_1055.JPG
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Walt%20Bowe/IMG_1054.JPG
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Greg%20and%20Dale/DSCF0082.JPG
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical offset
Can any members of the list send me photos of the offset
vertical fin? I am searching for a photos in guidence to making my
vertical fin offset and the brackets!
Please email me directly...
kmheide
Message 62
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Subject: | Aero-TV: Profiles in Aviation - Rob Bach and His Pietenpol |
I know I'm not the only Aero-News reader in this group... this was in
today's edition. Maybe it'll take a little of the edge off the lack of
coverage in Sport Aviation <G>
--------------------
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=233c2b29-1701-4753-992c-d0
b98e5b9af9&
or
http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?videoid=4aebea3e-23f6-4d84-9075-d9210c1ee3f
e
Aero-TV: Profiles in Aviation - Rob Bach and His Pietenpol
Mon, 14 Sep '09
Vintage Aircraft Enthusiast Rob Bach Introduces the Pietenpol Air Camper
Following World War I, civil aviation experienced an extraordinary surge in
public curiosity that ignited pilots, mechanics and enthusiasts alike.
Hundreds rushed to participate in this "Golden Age of Aviation," leading to
a tremendous increase in technological advancements. One such participant
was Bernard H. Pietenpol, a self-taught airplane designer from Spring Valley
Cherry Grove, Minnesota.
Considered the "Father of Homebuilt Aircraft," Pietenpol constructed his
first homebuilt airplane in 1923, using a Ford Model T engine. He did not,
however, gain world-wide recognition until April of 1930; Pietenpol set out
for Minneapolis with two Ford Model A powered airplanes in order to prove to
the editor of Modern Mechanics, now Popular Mechanics, that an auto engine
powered aircraft could indeed fly.
The editor was so impressed by the aircraft that the Pietenpol Air Camper
was featured as the magazine's cover story. With the increased exposure,
the airplane became the favorite homebuilt of its day.
Pietenpol intentionally designed the aircraft with the "average 1930's
American" in mind; all materials used were readily available in local stores
and the aircraft could be easily built with a minimum amount of tools.
The aircraft was constructed from spruce and plywood, powered by a converted
Ford Model A 4 cylinder engine. Due to the downward thrust of the
propeller, the aircraft had a short take off run, allowing the "Golden Age"
pilots to fly it from most off-airport fields.
FMI: http://www.pietenpols.org/, http://www.aero-tv.net,
http://www.youtube.com/aerotvnetwork, http://twitter.com/AeroNews
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
Message 63
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|
Subject: | Re: humped center section |
I've now got four layers of fibreglass on the
plug bottom half ( vinyl ester resin ) and am
hoping to do the top this weekend if the weather
holds.
This tank should hold 22 gallons. All except a
few ounces useable up to 15=B0 nose down
and any angle nose up, except maybe in a
hammerhead. :-)
I've also attached a pic of my throttle linkage
and left side exhaust manifold.
Sometime I'll get around to making another
couple of pages on my website. Right now
too much to do working on plane and getting
some flutes done. I don't make flutes then I
don't get to sell them, do I?
Clif
"It is not death that a man should fear,
but he should fear never beginning to live."
~ Marcus Aurelius
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: humped center section
Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's:
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/14/09 17:52:00
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