---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/19/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:55 AM - Re: gap seal (Gene & Tammy) 2. 07:23 AM - Re: gap seal (airlion) 3. 08:23 AM - Re: gap seal (Thomas Bernie) 4. 08:35 AM - Re: Out Fox The Fox (Tim Willis) 5. 08:57 AM - Re: gap seal (Gene & Tammy) 6. 04:17 PM - Re: gap seal (Jack Phillips) 7. 06:31 PM - Opinions Please (K5YAC) 8. 06:48 PM - Re: Opinions Please (Lloyd Smith) 9. 07:24 PM - Re: Opinions Please (K5YAC) 10. 07:59 PM - Re: Out Fox The Fox (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 11. 07:59 PM - Re: Opinions Please (Ben Charvet) 12. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Opinions Please (Lloyd Smith) 13. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Opinions Please (Lloyd Smith) 14. 08:08 PM - Re: Opinions Please (K5YAC) 15. 08:33 PM - I'm back (Doug Dever) 16. 09:42 PM - Re: Opinions Please (TOM MICHELLE BRANT) 17. 09:51 PM - Re: Opinions Please (K5YAC) 18. 11:09 PM - Re: Re: Opinions Please (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:46 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal Gardiner, I haven't seen Jack's gap seals (knowing Jack I'm sure they look great) however you might consider using "Sign" vinyl for gap seals. Buy your vinyl from a sign shop (I was able to find a color that matched my plane's color). Cut the vinyl into strips and then remove the backing from half the width of each strip. Place the glue sides of the two strips together and you end up having one strip with a sticky side on one half of each side. That way you can stick the strip to the top of the stabilizer, thread it thru the slot and stick it to the bottom of the elevator. Ends up looking great and lasts about forever. I've used Duct tape before and I do like this better. Jack may have had better results and I'm sure he'll give a us a good update. Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap seal > > To Jack phillips. Jack, on your elevator gap seal did you put duck tape > on the top or bottom or both sides? Also, did you gap seal the verticle > stab. and rudder too? Cheers, Gardiner Mason > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:49:00 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:57 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal Thanks Gene. I'll see if I can find some vinyl. Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: Gene & Tammy Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 8:54:48 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal Gardiner, I haven't seen Jack's gap seals (knowing Jack I'm sure they look great) however you might consider using "Sign" vinyl for gap seals. Buy your vinyl from a sign shop (I was able to find a color that matched my plane's color). Cut the vinyl into strips and then remove the backing from half the width of each strip. Place the glue sides of the two strips together and you end up having one strip with a sticky side on one half of each side. That way you can stick the strip to the top of the stabilizer, thread it thru the slot and stick it to the bottom of the elevator. Ends up looking great and lasts about forever. I've used Duct tape before and I do like this better. Jack may have had better results and I'm sure he'll give a us a good update. Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap seal > > To Jack phillips. Jack, on your elevator gap seal did you put duck tape on the top or bottom or both sides? Also, did you gap seal the verticle stab. and rudder too? Cheers, Gardiner Mason > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:49:00 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:18 AM PST US From: Thomas Bernie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal Guys, Just a thought -- if you are still covering, you can do like I did and use fabric. I did this on the ailerons and elevators. The big disadvantage being you have to cut the fabric to remove them. Regards, Tom Bernie On Sep 19, 2009, at 8:54 AM, Gene & Tammy wrote: > > > > Gardiner, I haven't seen Jack's gap seals (knowing Jack I'm sure > they look great) however you might consider using "Sign" vinyl for > gap seals. Buy your vinyl from a sign shop (I was able to find a > color that matched my plane's color). Cut the vinyl into strips and > then remove the backing from half the width of each strip. Place > the glue sides of the two strips together and you end up having one > strip with a sticky side on one half of each side. That way you can > stick the strip to the top of the stabilizer, thread it thru the > slot and stick it to the bottom of the elevator. Ends up looking > great and lasts about forever. > I've used Duct tape before and I do like this better. Jack may have > had better results and I'm sure he'll give a us a good update. > Gene > N502R > ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:24 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap seal > > >> >> To Jack phillips. Jack, on your elevator gap seal did you put duck >> tape on the top or bottom or both sides? Also, did you gap seal >> the verticle stab. and rudder too? Cheers, Gardiner Mason >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 07:49:00 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:13 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Out Fox The Fox Lowell, Congratulations. Remind us to keep YOU away from the henhouse. It sounds like you were laughing up your [jacket] sleeve the whole time. The result has to be a great sense of relief. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: Pieti Lowell >Sent: Sep 18, 2009 9:55 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Out Fox The Fox > > >Hi Gang. >Well- the check ride is over, and here is a general summery. >With an early morning appointment on a perfect day. Temps around the mid 50's Mr FAA comes to work in jeans and a short sleeve shirt. We pushed the hot J3 out of the hanger and after a long check-out, I ask if he would want the doors open or closed. Reply." Your discretion ." , I selected, open. I was wearing a jacket. He said that I select the runway and he will instruct maneuvers to be done. >We took off and went to 3000 Ft. Temps were in the 40's, a couple clearance turns and 360's to the right and left but steeper. one power off stall, and one accelerated at my discretion. >His next words were." Lets shoot a few landings" The word "discretion" came up many times. Runway selection etc. >He kept me closer and closer to the airport, until between side-slips and power approaches to hit a spot he insisted I hit. >The last landing, I told him that it will be exactly as I did on 36L, at 12" off the turf I dropped the J3 in with a mild quick stall. >The next thing I heard "Lets go in and talk about things." as he rubbed his arms to bring a bit of warmth into circulation. >In a later discussion he mentioned that a rebound from a small bounce may have lightened the gears enough to allow the side movement that I had. But a picture shows what a thousand words cannot cannot express. >The next hour I asked how his great adventures in the CO mountains went and what his greatest fears were. The Cougar was his answer, and it was a piece of cake from there on. >Pieti Lowell > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:29 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal Tom, your wings look great and I love the color! How far along on your build are you? More photos? I bought my flying Piet, I didn't build it and the only reason I not flying it today is I injured my leg. It'll be a week or so before I'll be able to fly again and I'm really tired of setting around. The weather here is slowly cooling down and I'm excited about the upcoming winter flying. Only wish we got more snow here so I could outfit the Piet with skies. Gene Grounded in Tennessee N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bernie" Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gap seal > Guys, > Just a thought -- if you are still covering, you can do like I did and > use fabric. I did this on the ailerons and elevators. The big > disadvantage being you have to cut the fabric to remove them. > Regards, Tom Bernie > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Sep 19, 2009, at 8:54 AM, Gene & Tammy wrote: > >> > > >> >> Gardiner, I haven't seen Jack's gap seals (knowing Jack I'm sure >> they look great) however you might consider using "Sign" vinyl for >> gap seals. Buy your vinyl from a sign shop (I was able to find a >> color that matched my plane's color). Cut the vinyl into strips and >> then remove the backing from half the width of each strip. Place >> the glue sides of the two strips together and you end up having one >> strip with a sticky side on one half of each side. That way you can >> stick the strip to the top of the stabilizer, thread it thru the >> slot and stick it to the bottom of the elevator. Ends up looking >> great and lasts about forever. >> I've used Duct tape before and I do like this better. Jack may have >> had better results and I'm sure he'll give a us a good update. >> Gene >> N502R >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:24 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap seal >> >> >>> >>> To Jack phillips. Jack, on your elevator gap seal did you put duck >>> tape on the top or bottom or both sides? Also, did you gap seal >>> the verticle stab. and rudder too? Cheers, Gardiner Mason >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 07:49:00 >> >> >> >> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:03:00 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:50 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gap seal I just put it on the bottom on the elevators/stabilizer. Nothing on the rudder. As I said earlier, I put the duct tape on just as an experiment, and it's still there after 4 years. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap seal To Jack phillips. Jack, on your elevator gap seal did you put duck tape on the top or bottom or both sides? Also, did you gap seal the verticle stab. and rudder too? Cheers, Gardiner Mason ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Opinions Please From: "K5YAC" I know this is a long shot, but I'm trying to decide what I am looking at. I received my wood package from AS&S back in July, and opened it all up shortly after. It all looked to be in good condition, although I did not perform a thorough inspection until a few weeks ago. Everything I expected to be there was indeed there, an I didn't notice any blemishes or damage. I hung my spars and several ribs a few weeks ago and haven't done much since because of the weather (rain). Ok, ok... I'm getting to it... with a break in the weather, I went to the hangar today to do some work and found what looks like a crack. I didn't notice this before, but it was pretty obvious today. It actually looks lie someone was careless with a blade (not me, I'm sure of that... was very careful). It extends from the top or the spar, around the corner to the front side of the spar, across the grain. I've seen damage like this when being careless with RC model wood and the like, but I know I've been very careful with this stuff thus far, and the only time I used a blade was to carefully remove the tape from the bundles. I placed the spar on the edge of my work bench (scratch down) and applied pressure with my hand. The scratch didn't seem to expand or open under pressure (notice I am calling it a scratch now). Anyhow, I wonder if it is just a scratch that wasn't very noticeable a few weeks ago, but after a couple weeks of rain and humidity at looks worse than it is. I can't tell for sure, and I'm sure that it is difficult to know by looking at photos, but... Opinions? Tips? Suggestions? Anything telling, like split against the grain, etc? It looks like it may just be a shallow scratch that I may be able to remove with light sanding, but it is hard to tell for sure, and I hate to destroy the evidence before I get some expert eyes on the subject. Thanks for looking. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263901#263901 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190051r_624.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190052r_120.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190053r_345.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190054r_922.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190060r_303.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190064r_195.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Opinions Please From: Lloyd Smith This will sound crazy, but a drop of ink on the scratch should follow the grain unless there is truely a crack. If that's the case (a crack), then the drop will wick down into the wood. On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 9:31 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > I know this is a long shot, but I'm trying to decide what I am looking at. > I received my wood package from AS&S back in July, and opened it all up > shortly after. It all looked to be in good condition, although I did not > perform a thorough inspection until a few weeks ago. Everything I expected > to be there was indeed there, an I didn't notice any blemishes or damage. I > hung my spars and several ribs a few weeks ago and haven't done much since > because of the weather (rain). > > Ok, ok... I'm getting to it... with a break in the weather, I went to the > hangar today to do some work and found what looks like a crack. I didn't > notice this before, but it was pretty obvious today. It actually looks lie > someone was careless with a blade (not me, I'm sure of that... was very > careful). It extends from the top or the spar, around the corner to the > front side of the spar, across the grain. I've seen damage like this when > being careless with RC model wood and the like, but I know I've been very > careful with this stuff thus far, and the only time I used a blade was to > carefully remove the tape from the bundles. I placed the spar on the edge > of my work bench (scratch down) and applied pressure with my hand. The > scratch didn't seem to expand or open under pressure (notice I am calling it > a scratch now). > > Anyhow, I wonder if it is just a scratch that wasn't very noticeable a few > weeks ago, but after a couple weeks of rain and humidity at looks worse than > it is. I can't tell for sure, and I'm sure that it is difficult to know by > looking at photos, but... > > Opinions? Tips? Suggestions? Anything telling, like split against the > grain, etc? It looks like it may just be a shallow scratch that I may be > able to remove with light sanding, but it is hard to tell for sure, and I > hate to destroy the evidence before I get some expert eyes on the subject. > > Thanks for looking. > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Opinions Please From: "K5YAC" That DOES sounds crazy. Anyone else concur on this test? I'd sure be willing to try it. I suppose that you are talking about thin ink, like a small drop of rubber stamp pad ink? -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263909#263909 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:07 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Out Fox The Fox Dear Lowell, My deepest respect and regard for you and your experience with aviation over the years and for you having to put up with the FAA guy but in the end it sounded like he was, after all, a normal human being too. Thank God for that. You did great. We had a little incident locally over the past week where (thankfully) no body knew the better and pilot's with YEARS and years of experience just drove home peacefully by sunset time and nothing more was a to-do about it. Just the way it should be in my mind. Glad you're back among the troops. Good going. Mike Cuy In Ohio ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:38 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Opinions Please Where on the spar is the blemish, in the center, or on one of the ends? Ben K5YAC wrote: > > I know this is a long shot, but I'm trying to decide what I am looking at. I received my wood package from AS&S back in July, and opened it all up shortly after. It all looked to be in good condition, although I did not perform a thorough inspection until a few weeks ago. Everything I expected to be there was indeed there, an I didn't notice any blemishes or damage. I hung my spars and several ribs a few weeks ago and haven't done much since because of the weather (rain). > > Ok, ok... I'm getting to it... with a break in the weather, I went to the hangar today to do some work and found what looks like a crack. I didn't notice this before, but it was pretty obvious today. It actually looks lie someone was careless with a blade (not me, I'm sure of that... was very careful). It extends from the top or the spar, around the corner to the front side of the spar, across the grain. I've seen damage like this when being careless with RC model wood and the like, but I know I've been very careful with this stuff thus far, and the only time I used a blade was to carefully remove the tape from the bundles. I placed the spar on the edge of my work bench (scratch down) and applied pressure with my hand. The scratch didn't seem to expand or open under pressure (notice I am calling it a scratch now). > > Anyhow, I wonder if it is just a scratch that wasn't very noticeable a few weeks ago, but after a couple weeks of rain and humidity at looks worse than it is. I can't tell for sure, and I'm sure that it is difficult to know by looking at photos, but... > > Opinions? Tips? Suggestions? Anything telling, like split against the grain, etc? It looks like it may just be a shallow scratch that I may be able to remove with light sanding, but it is hard to tell for sure, and I hate to destroy the evidence before I get some expert eyes on the subject. > > Thanks for looking. > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263901#263901 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190051r_624.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190052r_120.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190053r_345.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190054r_922.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190060r_303.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190064r_195.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Opinions Please From: Lloyd Smith http://exp-aircraft.com/library/boyce/grain.html On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Lloyd Smith wrote: > Yup, need to be thin, low surface tension stuff. There's a reference > somewhere (I'll look for it) for determining grain slope doing this as well. > > > On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 10:23 PM, K5YAC wrote: > >> >> That DOES sounds crazy. Anyone else concur on this test? I'd sure be >> willing to try it. I suppose that you are talking about thin ink, like a >> small drop of rubber stamp pad ink? >> >> -------- >> Mark - working on wings >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263909#263909 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists > or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British > publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954) > -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Opinions Please From: Lloyd Smith Yup, need to be thin, low surface tension stuff. There's a reference somewhere (I'll look for it) for determining grain slope doing this as well. On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 10:23 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > That DOES sounds crazy. Anyone else concur on this test? I'd sure be > willing to try it. I suppose that you are talking about thin ink, like a > small drop of rubber stamp pad ink? > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263909#263909 > > -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Opinions Please From: "K5YAC" In the center. If I measured, I'll bet it would fall within inches of exact center. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263920#263920 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:02 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: Pietenpol-List: I'm back Hey gang, - I'm back after a brief hiatis due to MSN Hotmail who closed my acct for a s upposed "terms of use violation"- Since there is nobody with a pulse to t alk to can't find anything out.- - Anyway, enough ranting- rib jig done...about ready to make my first rib. - Doug Dever=0A=0A__________________________________________________=0ADo You ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:49 PM PST US From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Opinions Please photos possible? > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Opinions Please > From: hangar10@cox.net > Date: Sat=2C 19 Sep 2009 18:31:24 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I know this is a long shot=2C but I'm trying to decide what I am looking at. I received my wood package from AS&S back in July=2C and opened it all up shortly after. It all looked to be in good condition=2C although I did not perform a thorough inspection until a few weeks ago. Everything I exp ected to be there was indeed there=2C an I didn't notice any blemishes or d amage. I hung my spars and several ribs a few weeks ago and haven't done m uch since because of the weather (rain). > > Ok=2C ok... I'm getting to it... with a break in the weather=2C I went to the hangar today to do some work and found what looks like a crack. I didn 't notice this before=2C but it was pretty obvious today. It actually look s lie someone was careless with a blade (not me=2C I'm sure of that... was very careful). It extends from the top or the spar=2C around the corner t o the front side of the spar=2C across the grain. I've seen damage like th is when being careless with RC model wood and the like=2C but I know I've b een very careful with this stuff thus far=2C and the only time I used a bla de was to carefully remove the tape from the bundles. I placed the spar o n the edge of my work bench (scratch down) and applied pressure with my han d. The scratch didn't seem to expand or open under pressure (notice I am c alling it a scratch now). > > Anyhow=2C I wonder if it is just a scratch that wasn't very noticeable a few weeks ago=2C but after a couple weeks of rain and humidity at looks wor se than it is. I can't tell for sure=2C and I'm sure that it is difficult to know by looking at photos=2C but... > > Opinions? Tips? Suggestions? Anything telling=2C like split against th e grain=2C etc? It looks like it may just be a shallow scratch that I may be able to remove with light sanding=2C but it is hard to tell for sure=2C and I hate to destroy the evidence before I get some expert eyes on the sub ject. > > Thanks for looking. > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263901#263901 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190051r_624.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190052r_120.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190053r_345.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190054r_922.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190060r_303.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9190064r_195.jpg > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Opinions Please From: "K5YAC" I've attached 5 photos. I'm a web user, so I'm not sure how they come across on the e-mail side. I assume... attached? -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263928#263928 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:53 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Opinions Please It's a crack. I've suffered that sort of thing a number of times. It goes farther to the left as well. I can see it going out of the picture to the left. Don't use this piece! In pic five you can see it follows the grain direction. Clif > > In the center. If I measured, I'll bet it would fall within inches of > exact center. > > -------- > Mark - working on wings ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.