Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:27 AM - Re: tailwheels (Robert Ray)
2. 02:32 AM - Re: Re: 16 years to complete Kevin's airplane-- explained ! (Robert Ray)
3. 02:48 AM - Re: tailwheels (Jack)
4. 03:48 AM - Re: tailwheels (Robert Ray)
5. 04:45 AM - Re: Vortex Generators (tengulfromeo)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Ryan Mueller)
7. 07:10 AM - Pilot seat height (Michael Perez)
8. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Test (Dan Yocum)
9. 07:31 AM - Re: Pilot seat height (Ryan Mueller)
10. 07:42 AM - Re: Pilot seat height (Jack Phillips)
11. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: No RPM drop on mag check?? (Dan Yocum)
12. 07:49 AM - Re: Pilot seat height (Michael Perez)
13. 09:19 AM - Jack's Wing Ribs (K5YAC)
14. 10:03 AM - Re: Test (K5YAC)
15. 10:11 AM - Re: Wood Options (Bill Church)
16. 10:13 AM - Re: Jack's Wing Ribs (Jack Phillips)
17. 10:34 AM - Re: Wood Options (899PM)
18. 10:53 AM - a week from today--off topic (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
19. 11:06 AM - Re: Jack's Wing Ribs (dwilson)
20. 11:08 AM - straight axle gear??? (TOPGUN)
21. 11:19 AM - Re: straight axle gear??? (K5YAC)
22. 11:35 AM - Re: straight axle gear??? (TOPGUN)
23. 11:47 AM - Re: straight axle gear??? (Doug Dever)
24. 11:49 AM - Re: a week from today--off topic (bmccraw@cogeco.ca)
25. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (gwread@aol.com)
26. 01:44 PM - Wright replica flight in Dayton for Monday, October 5th: off topic (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
27. 01:47 PM - how to order straight axel gear plans (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
28. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Mike Tunnicliffe)
29. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering (John Fay)
30. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering (Gary Boothe)
31. 04:44 PM - front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Ken Chambers)
32. 05:29 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (mike)
33. 06:09 PM - these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense of humor (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
34. 06:14 PM - cables (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
35. 06:40 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Robert Ray)
36. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Robert Ray)
37. 06:51 PM - FAASafety.gov - Unapproved Parts Notification "Unapproved Parts Notification" (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
38. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Ryan Mueller)
39. 06:52 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (Ross Alexander)
40. 07:04 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Ken Chambers)
41. 07:09 PM - Thanks Chris-- ! Mike Cuy Sketches and Pictures (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
42. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Robert Ray)
43. 07:21 PM - Spar splice (shad bell)
44. 07:37 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Clif Dawson)
45. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Dave and Connie)
46. 08:17 PM - Re: Spar splice (Michael McGowan)
47. 08:52 PM - Re: Spar splice (Ryan Mueller)
48. 08:52 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Mike Tunnicliffe)
49. 11:12 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Clif Dawson)
50. 11:42 PM - Re: these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense of humor (Gary Boothe)
Message 1
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The Gre
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed another difference, the upper support wires for the horizonital
> tail
> do not attach to a single point but to two different locations on the
> vertical
> fin one the leading edge and one the aft.
>
> Russell
>
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>>
>> One other thing to consider if you don't have cables run
>> to your tailwheel and the tail is already covered is that
>> you can go the GN-1 route and link the tailwheel steering
>> to the rudder itself, not to the rudder cables. The
>> rudder needs to be stiffened but it may be easier for some
>> to do it that way than to run a new set of tailwheel
>> steering cables up to the rudder bar.
>>
>> See the last couple of pix at
>> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets4.html
>> for how it's done on the GN-1.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: 16 years to complete Kevin's airplane-- explained |
!
In the past I have been hesitate to offer my opinion because lack of
experience,
when it comes to women my vast experience causes me to be hesitate in
offering an opinion becuse I don't know any more than my first date when I
was 15 years old 42 years ago. I can't blame not being finnished on anyone
but then why blame
who said it was a race. It a destinaion where the travel is as fun as the
arrival.
Russell
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 1:48 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>wrote:
> i now what you talkin about Im stok in my proyect for 10 year and only
> finished fuse parts of landin gears and tail section the same dilema.
>
> --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>* wrote:
>
>
> From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 16 years to complete Kevin's airplane--
> explained !
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:46 AM
>
> kevin.purtee@us.army.mil <http://mc/compose?to=kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>>
>
> There's some truth to that. My life circumstances have changed
> significantly over the last two years, to include an airplane friendly
> girlfriend, so progress really picked up.
>
> There was other stuff, too, but, yeah, married was definitely a factor.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264759#264759<= - The
> Pietenpol-List Email Forum
> -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264759#264759>h
> -->
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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Russell,
Not sure what you are referencing, I've not followed the thread. I would
comment, when visiting with Tom Brown at Blakesburg this summer, he
mentioned he would do this if redoing his Piet. He mentioned it would stop
the vibrations of the front of the vertical stabilizer.
Jack
www.textors.com
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ray
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheels
I noticed another difference, the upper support wires for the horizonital
tail
do not attach to a single point but to two different locations on the
vertical
fin one the leading edge and one the aft.
Russell
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
wrote:
One other thing to consider if you don't have cables run
to your tailwheel and the tail is already covered is that
you can go the GN-1 route and link the tailwheel steering
to the rudder itself, not to the rudder cables. The
rudder needs to be stiffened but it may be easier for some
to do it that way than to run a new set of tailwheel
steering cables up to the rudder bar.
See the last couple of pix at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets4.html
for how it's done on the GN-1.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net <http://www.flysquirrel.net/>
r> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
17:52:00
Message 4
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Oh well it wasn't the tail wheel but in the pictures I noticed the support
wires for the horizontal stabilizer were attached different, I don't think
this was
a Grega thing it was just something on the picture that caught my eye.
Russell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Jack <jack@textors.com> wrote:
> Russell,
>
> Not sure what you are referencing, I=92ve not followed the thread. I wou
ld
> comment, when visiting with Tom Brown at Blakesburg this summer, he
> mentioned he would do this if redoing his Piet. He mentioned it would st
op
> the vibrations of the front of the vertical stabilizer.
>
> Jack
>
> www.textors.com
>
>
> *Jack Textor*
>
> 29 SW 58th Drive
>
> Des Moines, IA 50312
>
> www.textors.com
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Ray
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:49 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheels
>
>
> I noticed another difference, the upper support wires for the horizonital
> tail
>
> do not attach to a single point but to two different locations on the
> vertical
>
> fin one the leading edge and one the aft.
>
>
> Russell
>
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> One other thing to consider if you don't have cables run
> to your tailwheel and the tail is already covered is that
> you can go the GN-1 route and link the tailwheel steering
> to the rudder itself, not to the rudder cables. The
> rudder needs to be stiffened but it may be easier for some
> to do it that way than to run a new set of tailwheel
> steering cables up to the rudder bar.
>
> See the last couple of pix at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets4.html
> for how it's done on the GN-1.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> r> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ====
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
.13.113/2399
> - Release Date: 09/27/09 17:52:00
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Thanks for responding Jeff. I searched Vortex Generators and didn't see your post
but read others. I even searched for author by your name. Maybe I missed it.
What was the subject line of your post?
Gary
N10GR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265287#265287
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Gary,
Go to www.matronics.com/search. Select Pietenpol from the drop down
menu. Search for 'boatright & vortex'. There you have it...
Ryan
Sent from my mobile device
On Sep 28, 2009, at 6:44 AM, "tengulfromeo" <gwread@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for responding Jeff. I searched Vortex Generators and didn't
> see your post but read others. I even searched for author by your
> name. Maybe I missed it. What was the subject line of your post?
>
> Gary
> N10GR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265287#265287
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Pilot seat height |
I can't seem to find dimensions on the prints for the pilot seat height. Before
I lose my mind all together, could someone tell me where I may find them. Or,
if anyone has a suggestion on seat height, seat angle, etc, I would appreciate
it.
Message 8
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> As far as my progress... I am collecting tools. Just picked up an
> antique band saw a couple of days ago. It is really a nice one. Now, I
> just need a good drill press and the shop will be ready!
Bah. Chop, chop. Get going. You don't need a drill press for ribs!
Get out there and start to "make little ones out of big ones" so you can
start to "make big ones out of little ones!"
Yes, I know I have no room to talk since I bought mine pre-assembled.
N8031 flies great, by the way. Spent another 1.7 hours in it on
Thursday and landed at the end of civil twilight on a cloudy day. Talk
about cutting it close! There was a nice big blue flame out of the left
exhaust stack, then some smoke as the unburned gas blew off. Top ground
speed was 93 mph with calm winds and I'd estimate that we averaged about
86-88mph over the entire triangle we flew.
Only 4.2 hours left before I can solo (thank you, Mr. Insurance Man). I
hope it gets warmer again for a few days before the snow starts to fly...
Cheers,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Pilot seat height |
Michael,
Looking at the bottom of the 'Drawing No. 1' plans sheet, I see the rear
seat support shown as being 6" high. This piece of plywood goes on the front
of the seat bottom (towards the middle of the sheet there is a 3D sketch of
the rear seat that shows this), so that means the seat according to plans is
6" high in the front. The seat back is shown at 21" tall, so from those two
dimensions you can figure the height and angle. HTH,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> I can't seem to find dimensions on the prints for the pilot seat height.
> Before I lose my mind all together, could someone tell me where I may find
> them. Or, if anyone has a suggestion on seat height, seat angle, etc, I
> would appreciate it.
>
> *
> *
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Pilot seat height |
The main sheet with all the fuselage plans - down at the bottom are all the
bulkheads (which define the seat positions).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pilot seat height
I can't seem to find dimensions on the prints for the pilot seat height.
Before I lose my mind all together, could someone tell me where I may find
them. Or, if anyone has a suggestion on seat height, seat angle, etc, I
would appreciate it.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: No RPM drop on mag check?? |
Just a quick note on this subject - during our flight on Thursday we
stopped in at friend's airfield and he lent me his digital rpm reader -
I don't recall the official name of it at the moment.
I have to do some more methodical tests, but what I did see suggests
that the tachometer is low by about 11.4%. That is, at 1000RPM
indicated on the tachometer, the prop was actually spinning at 1140RPM.
So, at 2050RPM (which I do achieve when I lean it out) it's actually
spinning at around 2280. That's close enough to redline for my tastes.
When Tres delivered the plane he mentioned that at one point in the past
the tach pegged itself at the high end. Turns out that some oil got up
inside the tachometer from the cable. He cleaned the tachometer up, but
apparently didn't recalibrate it. So, mystery solved on that one.
Cheers,
Dan
Robert Ray wrote:
> Why don't you disconnect both mags all input and out put wiring taps,
> take an olmmeter and measure resistance across the coils, measure
> the resistance to ground hopfully infinity, if they don't match there
> it is.
> Or if they don't match with in say < or > 15%
>
> Russell
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>>
>
>
>
>
> tkreiner wrote:
>
> <tkreiner@gmail.com <mailto:tkreiner@gmail.com>>
>
> Dan,
>
> Without fully understanding what's going on, and without an
> extensive knowledge of your engine, it's somewhat difficult to
> figure out what's going on. A few questions might inform the
> audience.
>
> Are the mags and ignition harnesses, & spark plugs - new, used,
> worn out? Explain their condition, as it might help.
>
>
> One mag is new in the last year. One plug is new 'cause the A&P
> broke the old one during the last Annual. The harness is probably
> the original from 1979 and probably before.
>
>
>
> How about the mechanical condition of the engine? Rebuilt?
> Describe.
>
>
> 400 SMOH, ~800 hour since new (estimated). Logs are incomplete from
> before 1965, hence the reason for the overhaul. One cylinder was
> cracked and replaced in '65 with "the same oversize." Compressions
> are all in the mid to high 70's.
>
> I sent out a sample of the oil for analysis and no red flags were found.
>
> This plane and engine has flown over 150 tach hours in the last 18
> months and 50 hours in the 2 weeks leading up to Oshkosh!
>
>
>
> What fuel are you using?
>
>
> 100LL with one shot of Marvel Mystery Oil per 15 gallons.
>
>
>
> Perhaps there's no problem at all. Even though our expectation
> is that the engine SHOULD show an rpm drop, that is not always
> the case... On a plane I fly regularly, the entire ignition
> system was recently replaced, i.e., new mags, harnesses, plugs,
> and correctly timed. When the plane was put back into service,
> there was an imperceptible rpm drop.
>
> It turned out, with a near perfect ignition system, clean fuel,
> etc., the engine was burning so clean and completely that there
> was no discernible drop in rpm during mag check.
>
>
> That's what I'm leaning toward, too. When Tres flew it from
> California they flew it flat out as fast and lean as it would go for
> as long as possible.
>
>
>
>
> Hope this adds some insight.
>
>
> It does! I'm a glass half-full kind of guy but I like to make sure
> there aren't any holes in the glass, too.
>
> The fact that at least one other engine out there in the world
> exhibits the same sort of behaviour suggests that mine isn't
> completely alone. 2 data points are always better than 1 (but still
> not great...).
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> <http://fermigrid.fnal.gov/>
> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
> s List Un/Subscription,
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ====
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Pilot seat height |
I feel like an idiot. I've been looking at that print now for about two weeks...the
dimensions went right past me. Thanks Ryan.
--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot seat height
Michael,
Looking at the bottom of the 'Drawing No. 1' plans sheet, I see the rear seat support
shown as being 6" high. This piece of plywood goes on the front of the
seat bottom (towards the middle of the sheet there is a 3D sketch of the rear
seat that shows this), so that means the seat according to plans is 6" high in
the front. The seat back is shown at 21" tall, so from those two dimensions you
can figure the height and angle. HTH,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I can't seem to find dimensions on the prints for the pilot seat height. Before
I lose my mind all together, could someone tell me where I may find them. Or,
if anyone has a suggestion on seat height, seat angle, etc, I would appreciate
it.
Message 13
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Subject: | Jack's Wing Ribs |
Jack... did you say that you just nailed your ribs to your spars? No T-88, just
nails? I think I read that somewhere, and in at least a couple of ways, it
sounds like a good idea. Can you clarify/explain?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265330#265330
Message 14
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I agree, you don't need a drill press yet. I'm not sure if you have a disk/belt
sander... if not, you WILL like to have one of those. Otherwise, make some
sawdust and keep your eyes/ears open for a drill press.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265340#265340
Message 15
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Russell,
I don't fully follow your logic.
You say the Douglas Fir you have is "probably 18% stronger than spruce".
Fair enough. Based on published values, the bending strength of Sitka
Spruce is 9400 psi, vs Douglas Fir at 10,900 psi (16% difference - close
enough).
What confuses me is that you say you will reduce the cross-section of
your longerons by 25%. This will result in a weaker structure. Probably
a better substitution would be to make your longerons 15/16" square.
that would provide a more representative substitution.
Then again, the Air Camper has a robust structure (some say it is
over-built), and the longerons of The Last Original were apparently
15/16" square Spruce, so maybe 3/4" x 1" DF longerons would be strong
enough - but it's the "maybe" that I wouldn't be comfortable with. Just
curious as to how you would come up with the size you have chosen.
Also, by making the longerons rectangular rather than square, they will
be stronger in one direction than the other. How do you chose which way
to orient the longerons?
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Ray
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Options
... I like the DF, I've built a motorcycle trailer out of it it's
probably 18% stronger than spruce, takes epoxy like a sponge ...
My Longerons will be DF 1 x 3/4 inch because it's heavier than spruce
so I will take off 1/4 inch.
Russell
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Subject: | Jack's Wing Ribs |
Yep - just nails. I nailed through the capstrips into the spar, then read
Tony Bingelis who said that was no longer the preferred method. Oh well -
it worked.
There is no reason to glue the ribs to the spars. The ribs aren't loaded in
such a way to make them move relative to the spar and once they are
rib-laced, they can't go anywhere anyway. The nails are just to hold them
in place during covering.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack's Wing Ribs
Jack... did you say that you just nailed your ribs to your spars? No T-88,
just nails? I think I read that somewhere, and in at least a couple of
ways, it sounds like a good idea. Can you clarify/explain?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265330#265330
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Subject: | Re: Wood Options |
Charlie Rubeck built and sold Western Red Cedar Ribs for many years. After talking
with Charlie at Brodhead 11 years ago, I too built using WRC, 1/16 birch gussets
and T-88. I was able to get all rib stock from (2) 8-ft 4x4's. At the time
they were about $12ea. I recently bought some clear 8' WRC 4x4's for an arbor
project and they were nearly $50ea. Be sure to follow aircraft grading standards
when looking at the end-grain and slope.
Being the engineer type, I built a test fixture and tested one of my finished ribs.
I loaded the rib to 11G's before I heard a crack somewhere. Never did find
it.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265347#265347
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|
Subject: | a week from today--off topic |
This should be cool to watch if the weather allows for it. http://www
.nps.gov/daav/forteachers/celebratingpracticalflight.htm
This Mark Dusenberry is one amazing guy. He's got over 40 successful fligh
ts in his authentic Wright replicas. You don't hear
much about him like you did Ken Hyde and others but he's got it going on.
>From a few years ago. There are some great flying scenes from aboard the F
lyer if you FF or wait long enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fAp4vXX_bE
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: Jack's Wing Ribs |
How I did it... NO glue, just two nails through each of the upright rib braces
into the back of the front spar and the front of the rear spar. Use cement
coated nails available from Wicks or ASS. I used a picture frame glazing plier
to squeeze the nails into the spar. No need for a hammer. NO need to nail
thru the top cap strip. Agree with Jack, ribs are not going to go anywhere after
rib stitching anyway...
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265353#265353
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Subject: | straight axle gear??? |
I have two sets of aircamper plans one from the 70's & 08' and neither of them
show the construction details for the staight axle variety, only the split gear
style. Is there another set of plans with a different option?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265354#265354
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Subject: | Re: straight axle gear??? |
There is a supplemental plan for wooden landing gear that you can get from the
Pietenpol family.
Also, check out www.westcoastpiet.com for a great wood gear write up.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265357#265357
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Subject: | Re: straight axle gear??? |
ok, your right. i just ordered the supplemental drawings from their site.
That sheet must be lost in my original plans my dad had, cause the gear is all
done, just need to re-do a few things.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265359#265359
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Subject: | straight axle gear??? |
It's a suppliment available throught Andrew or Don Pietenpol
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle gear???
> From: rmdinfo@lakefield.net
> Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 11:08:00 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I have two sets of aircamper plans one from the 70's & 08' and neither of
them show the construction details for the staight axle variety=2C only th
e split gear style. Is there another set of plans with a different option?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265354#265354
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.
Message 24
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|
Subject: | a week from today--off topic |
> They've also invited us to bring our full size flying replica of the Silver Dart,
the first airplane to fly in Canada
a hundred years ago. It'll be really neat to see them together and compare technologies
of the time. Weather permitting
of course, and yes, it's really made of bamboo,wire,and hockey tape.
B McCraw
>
> This should be cool to watch if the weather allows for it.
> http://www.nps.gov/daav/forteachers/celebratingpracticalflight.htm
>
>
> This Mark Dusenberry is one amazing guy. He's got over 40 successful flights
in his authentic Wright replicas. You
> don't hear much about him like you did Ken Hyde and others but he's got it going
on.
>
> >From a few years ago. There are some great flying scenes from aboard the Flyer
if you FF or wait long enough.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fAp4vXX_bE
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
thank you
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2009 10:08 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vortex Generators
?
Gary,?
?
Go to www.matronics.com/search. Select Pietenpol from the drop down menu. Search for 'boatright & vortex'. There you have it...?
?
Ryan?
?
Sent from my mobile device?
?
On Sep 28, 2009, at 6:44 AM, "tengulfromeo" <gwread@aol.com> wrote:?
?
>?
> Thanks for responding Jeff. I searched Vortex Generators and didn't > see your
post but read others. I even searched for author by your > name. Maybe I missed
it. What was the subject line of your post??
>?
> Gary?
> N10GR?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> Read this topic online here:?
>?
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265287#265287?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
?
?
?
Message 26
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Subject: | Wright replica flight in Dayton for Monday, October 5th: |
off topic
Of possible interest:
>Thank you for your interest in the 104th Anniversary of Practical
>Flight. The flights and pre-flight ceremony is open to everyone! You do not
>have to be associated with an educational group to attend this part of the
>event, and we encourage you to join us. The event is weather-contingent
>and if it must be cancelled due to inclement weather, it will not be
>rescheduled. The anticipated agenda is pretty simple:
>
> 8:30 9:30 a.m. Parking open for arrival of public
> 9:30 9:50 a.m. Pre-Flight Ceremony
>10:00 11:30 a.m. Flight(s) of replica Wright Flyer III
>
>The event will take place at Huffman Prairie Flying Field, which can be
>accessed via Gate 16a on Wright-Patterson AFB. Parking will be limited;
>staff will provide direction at the site. There is no seating provided;
>you may bring your own lawnchair, if desired. The prairie surface is
>unpaved and uneven. The event is outdoors on open grassland. There may
>be
>insects. Dress appropriately for the weather.
>
>
>Karen S. Rosga
>Education Technician
>Dayton Aviation Heritage N.H.P.
do not archive
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Subject: | how to order straight axel gear plans |
Number One:
Go to the Pietenpol Family Web Site: http://www.pressenter.com/~apieten
p/index.html
Go to PRODUCT http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/index.html
Scroll down-- keep scrolling down and you'll see 10 different products to c
hoose from
and one of them is the Straight Axel Gear Plans.
You'll see this below:
Product 7 Description; Original Pietenpol Air
Camper Wooden Landing Gear Plans
Original to first Air Camper's Bernard Pietenpol built.
Original Air Camper Wooden Landing Gear
Product 7 Price = $20.00 US Dollars
*Free Shipping
Top of Form
Bottom of Form
Top of Form
Bottom of Form
Mike C.
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Wood Options |
Hi , interesting, this would be one of the few areas where Red Cedar could
be used, as ribs are generally made of larger sized timber than is required
for strength, due to ease of fastening gussets etc. Another area could be
the wing leading edge and perhaps the aileron spars, however I am not
advocating a change to a timber of lesser strength without a proper analysis
of the structure. The overall weight savings would not be great, especially
as these lighter timbers tend to absorb more sealer, however it may allow
the use of a less expensive / more readily available / clear grade, species
of timber.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Options
>
> Charlie Rubeck built and sold Western Red Cedar Ribs for many years. After
> talking with Charlie at Brodhead 11 years ago, I too built using WRC, 1/16
> birch gussets and T-88. I was able to get all rib stock from (2) 8-ft
> 4x4's. At the time they were about $12ea. I recently bought some clear 8'
> WRC 4x4's for an arbor project and they were nearly $50ea. Be sure to
> follow aircraft grading standards when looking at the end-grain and slope.
>
> Being the engineer type, I built a test fixture and tested one of my
> finished ribs. I loaded the rib to 11G's before I heard a crack somewhere.
> Never did find it.
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265347#265347
>
>
>
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering |
LIst,
My grandfather, Charles Fay, was a sign painter, but passed away a number of
years ago. His most famous work, according to our family historians, has
been seen by most of you. In the Air and Space museum in Washington, D.C.,
the name on the side of the *Spirit of St. Louis* was painted on by him.
Not the original time, in San Diego, but after Lindbergh's national tour,
flight to Mexico City, etc., before the plane was sent to the Smithsonian,
it was completely recovered and refurbished in Chicago, and he was hired to
come in and repaint the name on the nose.
John Fay
(about our only brush with fame)
**
>
> Luckily I have a dealer near me. They tried to give me a quick lesson, Ha!
> There ain't no quick learning it! Which is the reason the lettering I did
> the lettering on the side of my with a stencil and they are very simple
> letters. See it here;
>
>
> http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/5d022692.html
>
> This is the work of a sign painter;
>
>
> http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/5d022683.html
>
> Ha! Little different!
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265085#265085
>
>
Message 30
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|
Subject: | Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering |
John,
.been there, seen that! I say you get bragging rights!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fay
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering
LIst,
My grandfather, Charles Fay, was a sign painter, but passed away a number of
years ago. His most famous work, according to our family historians, has
been seen by most of you. In the Air and Space museum in Washington, D.C.,
the name on the side of the Spirit of St. Louis was painted on by him. Not
the original time, in San Diego, but after Lindbergh's national tour, flight
to Mexico City, etc., before the plane was sent to the Smithsonian, it was
completely recovered and refurbished in Chicago, and he was hired to come in
and repaint the name on the nose.
John Fay
(about our only brush with fame)
Luckily I have a dealer near me. They tried to give me a quick lesson, Ha!
There ain't no quick learning it! Which is the reason the lettering I did
the lettering on the side of my with a stencil and they are very simple
letters. See it here;
http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/5d0226
92.html
This is the work of a sign painter;
http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/5d0226
83.html
Ha! Little different!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265085#265085
s List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 31
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Subject: | front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? |
I've got one good spruce center section spar and one good doug fir center
section spar. Anyone see any reason why I coldn't proceed like this, with
doug fir for the front spar and spruce for the rear spar? These are 3/4 x 4
3/4 spars for the Riblett airfoil.
My Dad mentioned something about the modulus of elasticity differences
between the two materials, but I'm not sure it's an important consideration
in this case. From what I can understand.
Also, does anyone know the basics of spar splicing off the top of their
head? What kind of a slope do you need? Stuff like that.
Ken, trying to keep the project moving without a whole lot of cash on hand.
Message 32
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Subject: | front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? |
Ken,
The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load so, if
there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't matter.
Mike Hardaway
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
I've got one good spruce center section spar and one good doug fir center
section spar. Anyone see any reason why I coldn't proceed like this, with
doug fir for the front spar and spruce for the rear spar? These are 3/4 x 4
3/4 spars for the Riblett airfoil.
My Dad mentioned something about the modulus of elasticity differences
between the two materials, but I'm not sure it's an important consideration
in this case. From what I can understand.
Also, does anyone know the basics of spar splicing off the top of their
head? What kind of a slope do you need? Stuff like that.
Ken, trying to keep the project moving without a whole lot of cash on hand.
Message 33
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|
Subject: | these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense |
of humor
Chris Tracy rattles Gary's cage:
'Good question Rick, how ARE those ribs coming along Gary? I notice you still have
15 to build. Didn't you have 15 done last week? It should only take you another
15 days to finish them right?
'By the way, mine look really nice on the spars right next to my completed center
section. I am determined to fly before you do so you might as well get back
to the kitchen remodel.
'
Chris
I'm kind of liking this trash talk at the line of scrimmage ! Come' on-- bring
it or I'll fly before you do. I like the other one that Chris Tracy said
about planting his landing gear
upside down so his kids and wife don't hit it and so they can get a car in the
garage but poor Chris ends up bashing his head into the axle with it up that high.
Not fair Chris.
Make the wife bash her shins a few times on that--flip it upright.
(PS-- I'm no Dr. Phil when it comes to marital advice, trust me but I do have a
narrow evil streak that comes and goes from time to time !)
Mike C.
do not archive
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Used 7x19--- like Jack said, easier to get around thimbles and work with.
Message 35
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Subject: | Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? |
Well I would use the DF in the front, don't think the modulus of elasticity
would matter
since lots of airfoils have spars of different widths.
Thats what i would do however I no expert.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM, mike <bike.mike@comcast.net> wrote:
> Ken,
> The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load so, if
> there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't matter.
> Mike Hardaway
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Chambers
> *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 4:44 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
>
>
> I've got one good spruce center section spar and one good doug fir center
> section spar. Anyone see any reason why I coldn't proceed like this, with
> doug fir for the front spar and spruce for the rear spar? These are 3/4 x 4
> 3/4 spars for the Riblett airfoil.
>
> My Dad mentioned something about the modulus of elasticity differences
> between the two materials, but I'm not sure it's an important consideration
> in this case. From what I can understand.
>
> Also, does anyone know the basics of spar splicing off the top of their
> head? What kind of a slope do you need? Stuff like that.
>
> Ken, trying to keep the project moving without a whole lot of cash on hand.
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 36
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|
Subject: | Re: Wood Options |
Yeah I tested a rib, I loaded the rib with tractor weights
and left it over night, the fake spars started to crush I don't remember
the exact weight I think 1000 lbs, this wasn't certified wood.
with 30 ribs that's 30,000 lbs' so yes I can do aerobatic maneuvers
with my pianos, girlfriend and dog on board as long as my shoulder
harness doesn't break while I'm pulling 12 negative g's,
I also bought an old G-suit from an ex military fighter pilot
to keep the blood out of my feet I'm wearing it right now.
No kidding I did test a rib to that weight and was amazed.
Russell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz>wrote:
> zk-owl@clear.net.nz>
>
> Hi , interesting, this would be one of the few areas where Red Cedar could
> be used, as ribs are generally made of larger sized timber than is required
> for strength, due to ease of fastening gussets etc. Another area could be
> the wing leading edge and perhaps the aileron spars, however I am not
> advocating a change to a timber of lesser strength without a proper analysis
> of the structure. The overall weight savings would not be great, especially
> as these lighter timbers tend to absorb more sealer, however it may allow
> the use of a less expensive / more readily available / clear grade, species
> of timber.
> regards Mike T.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:33 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Options
>
>
>>
>> Charlie Rubeck built and sold Western Red Cedar Ribs for many years. After
>> talking with Charlie at Brodhead 11 years ago, I too built using WRC, 1/16
>> birch gussets and T-88. I was able to get all rib stock from (2) 8-ft 4x4's.
>> At the time they were about $12ea. I recently bought some clear 8' WRC 4x4's
>> for an arbor project and they were nearly $50ea. Be sure to follow aircraft
>> grading standards when looking at the end-grain and slope.
>>
>> Being the engineer type, I built a test fixture and tested one of my
>> finished ribs. I loaded the rib to 11G's before I heard a crack somewhere.
>> Never did find it.
>>
>> --------
>> PAPA MIKE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265347#265347
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 37
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|
Subject: | FAASafety.gov - Unapproved Parts Notification "Unapproved |
Parts Notification"
Of possible interest-- seems like a good thing to check once in a while, like the
weather before you go flying.
Mike C.
Unapproved Parts Notification
Notice Number: NOTC1921
It has come to our attention that not all users are aware that the Unapproved Parts Notification program is now hosted on the FAA website at http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/upn/. You should refer to this site on a regular basis to get the latest Unapproved Parts Notifications.
In fact, general information and guidance about the Suspected Unapproved Parts Program is available at http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/.
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Message 38
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Subject: | Re: Wood Options |
I still wonder, how exactly did you keep 1000 lbs of tractor weights
balanced on the 1/2" wide capstrip of a single rib?
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah I tested a rib, I loaded the rib with tractor weights
> and left it over night, the fake spars started to crush I don't remember
> the exact weight I think 1000 lbs, this wasn't certified wood.
> with 30 ribs that's 30,000 lbs' so yes I can do aerobatic maneuvers
> with my pianos, girlfriend and dog on board as long as my shoulder
> harness doesn't break while I'm pulling 12 negative g's,
> I also bought an old G-suit from an ex military fighter pilot
> to keep the blood out of my feet I'm wearing it right now.
>
> No kidding I did test a rib to that weight and was amazed.
>
> Russell
>
Message 39
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Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
How did you sealo the gaps on the vertical and horizontal stabilizer? Duct
tape or what would you suggest. Ross in Orangeville, Ontario, Canada C-FTJM
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: tengulfromeo <gwrea
d@aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 27,
2009 7:04:50 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Vortex Generators=0A=0A--> Piet
enpol-List message posted by: "tengulfromeo" <gwread@aol.com>=0A=0AI recent
ly sealed my elevator gap which improved control response. (I strongly reco
mmend gap seals on ailerons, rudder and elevator on the Pietenpol). =0A=0AJ
ust for kicks this weekend I added vortex generators to the underside of my
horizontal stabilizer and definitely noticed improved elevator authority o
n landing flare. =0A=0ACrazy I know, and if they didn't look so darn notice
able and out of character for an antique, but still it has me thinking.....
...has anyone had experience with vortex generators on the Piet wing? =0A
=0AGary =0AN10GR=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://for
=================0A=0A=0A ____________
______________________________________________________=0AThe new Internet E
xplorer=AE 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for
Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
Message 40
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Subject: | Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? |
Thanks Mike. Good to know
How about the rest of the wing? More bending forces on the wing panels,
seems to me.
Ken
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:27 PM, mike <bike.mike@comcast.net> wrote:
> Ken,
> The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load so, if
> there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't matter.
> Mike Hardaway
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Chambers
> *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 4:44 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
>
>
> I've got one good spruce center section spar and one good doug fir center
> section spar. Anyone see any reason why I coldn't proceed like this, with
> doug fir for the front spar and spruce for the rear spar? These are 3/4 x 4
> 3/4 spars for the Riblett airfoil.
>
> My Dad mentioned something about the modulus of elasticity differences
> between the two materials, but I'm not sure it's an important consideration
> in this case. From what I can understand.
>
> Also, does anyone know the basics of spar splicing off the top of their
> head? What kind of a slope do you need? Stuff like that.
>
> Ken, trying to keep the project moving without a whole lot of cash on hand.
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 41
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Subject: | Thanks Chris-- ! Mike Cuy Sketches and Pictures |
For some who were interested in a CD of some of my chicken-scratch sketches and
detailed photos please don't
send me any money, stock options, or leftover pork chops but go to the site that
Chris Tracy has mentioned
below.
What a great resource Chris ! I'm always learning something new when I look at
other people's photos that you
have graciously posted on your web site.
Book mark this site and save money now ! I'm offering TWO of my sketch CD's
and photo CD's for the price of one now !!! Shipping is free too !
Let's see how many write to me now wanting to see if they can get a CD.
Money says at least one, maybe two.
Mike C.
_______________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of catdesigns@att.net [catdesigns@att.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy Sketches and Pictures
I have added Mike Cuy's pictures and sketches to the website. If you are
like me and were inspired by Mike plane you will find the numerouse pictures
and sketches Mike sent in to be really helpfull. I know I have found a
thing or two I was curious about. The pictures can be found here.
http://westcoastpiet.com/mike_cuy_page_2.htm
His sketches can be found here.
http://westcoastpiet.com/design_sketches.htm
Thanks Mike for taking the time to send the pictures.
As always, anyone who wants to send pictures or information to include on
WestCoastPiet.com feel free to send them to me.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Message 42
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Subject: | Re: Wood Options |
I cut a piece of construction grade lumber down to spar size,
the fake spar's were about three feet long, I then hand selected my worse
rib that had questionable grain, I glued it to the spars and placed
both spars across saw horses, I had a box of three conductor
inside telephone wire, I suspended the barbells from the
rib which was upside down to simulate positive g forces.
I had a full box of wire and I just used it to tie the weights
under the rib attached to the rib. I ran out out weight
at 533 lbs' I then moved all the weight to the front then to the
back, then I asked Jan (German) if he had any tractor weights
at work the next day so then I went over and borrowed 500
lbs' of tractor weights, I added those evenly distributing weight along the
rib
and left it over night.
The next day the edges of the fake spars were starting to
crush slightly, the rib was OK, and it only had gussets on
one side. I also took pictures and have witnesses.
NUF said
Russell
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> I still wonder, how exactly did you keep 1000 lbs of tractor weights
> balanced on the 1/2" wide capstrip of a single rib?
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah I tested a rib, I loaded the rib with tractor weights
>> and left it over night, the fake spars started to crush I don't remember
>> the exact weight I think 1000 lbs, this wasn't certified wood.
>> with 30 ribs that's 30,000 lbs' so yes I can do aerobatic maneuvers
>> with my pianos, girlfriend and dog on board as long as my shoulder
>> harness doesn't break while I'm pulling 12 negative g's,
>> I also bought an old G-suit from an ex military fighter pilot
>> to keep the blood out of my feet I'm wearing it right now.
>>
>> No kidding I did test a rib to that weight and was amazed.
>>
>> Russell
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 43
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Acording to 43-13- spar splice needs to be at a 15:1 angle of the spar th
ickness.- The length of the scarf would be 15 times 3/4(or 1 inch if you
use 1inch spars)-of an inch or 11 1/4 inches long on each side (spar half
) of the joint.- then a reinforcement plate should be placed over the spl
ice.- really you should look up ac43-13 online or buy a copy, there is a
diagram in there that shows it better than I can explain it.- There are a
few other particulars in there.- My advise is buy spar matrial the full
length, scarf joints add weight, and lots of tedious precision work.- If
it were a repair to an exsisting airplane I would say ok splice it but this
is a new airplane, so it would be worth the extra couple hundred bucks to
not fuss with the splice.
-
Just my 2 cents worth,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 44
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Subject: | Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? |
I wouldn't worry about it. Basicaly all those things do is
hold everything else in place and provide attachment points
for cabanes, wing panels, etc. Look at the Moth series of
AC. The crossbar between the cabanes is a small diameter
tube, What you see as airfoil is actually only the fuel tank.
Clif
Well I would use the DF in the front, don't think the modulus of
elasticity would matter
since lots of airfoils have spars of different widths.
Thats what i would do however I no expert.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM, mike <bike.mike@comcast.net> wrote:
Ken,
The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load
so, if there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't
matter.
Mike Hardaway
Message 45
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Subject: | Re: Wood Options |
Since I started this.
I did the math the other night after I posted my question and got a few
replies. As I remember from long ago when I got my license a standard
class aircraft is rated for 3 G and tested to 4.5 G. If you take a very
fat Pietenpol at 1300 pounds and stress it to 4.5 G you are at 5850
pounds. There are 32 ribs in the wing but two are doubles for the
three piece so you are dividing the weight across 30 ribs. That gets
you to less than 200 pounds per rib.
I have had a Decathalon up into that range and doubt that I would ever
get my Taylorcraft, let alone a Pietenpol, into that situation.
My conclusion was that I could just about use balsa wood for that. I am
not all that worried about strength.
I also found a local construction lumber yard that Doug Fir 2x8 12' long
for $11. I am going to go and take a look.
Dave
Robert Ray wrote:
> Yeah I tested a rib, I loaded the rib with tractor weights
> and left it over night, the fake spars started to crush I don't remember
> the exact weight I think 1000 lbs, this wasn't certified wood.
> with 30 ribs that's 30,000 lbs' so yes I can do aerobatic maneuvers
> with my pianos, girlfriend and dog on board as long as my shoulder
> harness doesn't break while I'm pulling 12 negative g's,
> I also bought an old G-suit from an ex military fighter pilot
> to keep the blood out of my feet I'm wearing it right now.
>
> No kidding I did test a rib to that weight and was amazed.
>
> Russell
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz
> <mailto:zk-owl@clear.net.nz>> wrote:
>
> <zk-owl@clear.net.nz <mailto:zk-owl@clear.net.nz>>
>
> Hi , interesting, this would be one of the few areas where Red
> Cedar could be used, as ribs are generally made of larger sized
> timber than is required for strength, due to ease of fastening
> gussets etc. Another area could be the wing leading edge and
> perhaps the aileron spars, however I am not advocating a change to
> a timber of lesser strength without a proper analysis of the
> structure. The overall weight savings would not be great,
> especially as these lighter timbers tend to absorb more sealer,
> however it may allow the use of a less expensive / more readily
> available / clear grade, species of timber.
> regards Mike T.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM"
> <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com <mailto:rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:33 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Options
>
>
> <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com <mailto:rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>>
>
> Charlie Rubeck built and sold Western Red Cedar Ribs for many
> years. After talking with Charlie at Brodhead 11 years ago, I
> too built using WRC, 1/16 birch gussets and T-88. I was able
> to get all rib stock from (2) 8-ft 4x4's. At the time they
> were about $12ea. I recently bought some clear 8' WRC 4x4's
> for an arbor project and they were nearly $50ea. Be sure to
> follow aircraft grading standards when looking at the
> end-grain and slope.
>
> Being the engineer type, I built a test fixture and tested one
> of my finished ribs. I loaded the rib to 11G's before I heard
> a crack somewhere. Never did find it.
>
> --------
> PAPA MIKE
>
Message 46
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If you are building a one piece wing buying and shipping 30 ft spars
would be prohibitive if you could even find them.
Mike McGowan building rib jig
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar splice
Acording to 43-13 spar splice needs to be at a 15:1 angle of
the spar thickness. The length of the scarf would be 15 times 3/4(or 1
inch if you use 1inch spars) of an inch or 11 1/4 inches long on each
side (spar half) of the joint. then a reinforcement plate should be
placed over the splice. really you should look up ac43-13 online or buy
a copy, there is a diagram in there that shows it better than I can
explain it. There are a few other particulars in there. My advise is
buy spar matrial the full length, scarf joints add weight, and lots of
tedious precision work. If it were a repair to an exsisting airplane I
would say ok splice it but this is a new airplane, so it would be worth
the extra couple hundred bucks to not fuss with the splice.
Just my 2 cents worth,
Shad
Message 47
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Mike,
I believe the poster Shad was responding to mentioned center section spars,
which would mean he is building a three piece wing. If you are building a
one-piece wing then you would have to splice the spars, per the plans.
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Michael McGowan <shadetree@socket.net>wrote:
> If you are building a one piece wing buying and shipping 30 ft spars
> would be prohibitive if you could even find them.
>
> Mike McGowan building rib jig
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 9:19 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Spar splice
>
>
> Acording to 43-13 spar splice needs to be at a 15:1 angle of the spar
> thickness. The length of the scarf would be 15 times 3/4(or 1 inch if you
> use 1inch spars) of an inch or 11 1/4 inches long on each side (spar half)
> of the joint. then a reinforcement plate should be placed over the splice.
> really you should look up ac43-13 online or buy a copy, there is a diagram
> in there that shows it better than I can explain it. There are a few other
> particulars in there. My advise is buy spar matrial the full length, scarf
> joints add weight, and lots of tedious precision work. If it were a repair
> to an exsisting airplane I would say ok splice it but this is a new
> airplane, so it would be worth the extra couple hundred bucks to not fuss
> with the splice.
>
> Just my 2 cents worth,
> Shad
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 48
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Subject: | Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? |
Hi, the spars in the centre section see fairly high compression loads,
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
I wouldn't worry about it. Basicaly all those things do is
hold everything else in place and provide attachment points
for cabanes, wing panels, etc. Look at the Moth series of
AC. The crossbar between the cabanes is a small diameter
tube, What you see as airfoil is actually only the fuel tank.
Clif
Well I would use the DF in the front, don't think the modulus of
elasticity would matter
since lots of airfoils have spars of different widths.
Thats what i would do however I no expert.
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM, mike <bike.mike@comcast.net> wrote:
Ken,
The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending
load so, if there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't
matter.
Mike Hardaway
Message 49
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Subject: | Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? |
Yes they do but we are dealing with one of spruce, the
other of fir. The question being is it going to make a
difference which one goes where. Since the weaker one,
made of spruce, is the "gold standard" as it were, then
the point is moot. The fir being stronger is overkill.
We are, of course, assuming that both have the same
dimensions.
Clif
Hi, the spars in the centre section see fairly high compression loads,
Regards Mike T.
Message 50
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Subject: | these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense |
of humor
Still with the ribs! What's with you guys and the ribs! I did get 3/4 of my
center section built last weekend! (sure wish I had built those ribs first!)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: these West Coast guys seem like they have a good
sense of humor
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Chris Tracy rattles Gary's cage:
'Good question Rick, how ARE those ribs coming along Gary? I notice you
still have 15 to build. Didn't you have 15 done last week? It should only
take you another 15 days to finish them right?
'By the way, mine look really nice on the spars right next to my completed
center section. I am determined to fly before you do so you might as well
get back to the kitchen remodel.
'
Chris
I'm kind of liking this trash talk at the line of scrimmage ! Come' on--
bring it or I'll fly before you do. I like the other one that Chris
Tracy said about planting his landing gear
upside down so his kids and wife don't hit it and so they can get a car in
the garage but poor Chris ends up bashing his head into the axle with it up
that high. Not fair Chris.
Make the wife bash her shins a few times on that--flip it upright.
(PS-- I'm no Dr. Phil when it comes to marital advice, trust me but I do
have a narrow evil streak that comes and goes from time to time !)
Mike C.
do not archive
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