Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Mon 09/28/09


Total Messages Posted: 50



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:27 AM - Re: tailwheels (Robert Ray)
     2. 02:32 AM - Re: Re: 16 years to complete Kevin's airplane-- 	explained ! (Robert Ray)
     3. 02:48 AM - Re: tailwheels (Jack)
     4. 03:48 AM - Re: tailwheels (Robert Ray)
     5. 04:45 AM - Re: Vortex Generators (tengulfromeo)
     6. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (Ryan Mueller)
     7. 07:10 AM - Pilot seat height (Michael Perez)
     8. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Test (Dan Yocum)
     9. 07:31 AM - Re: Pilot seat height (Ryan Mueller)
    10. 07:42 AM - Re: Pilot seat height (Jack Phillips)
    11. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: No RPM drop on mag check?? (Dan Yocum)
    12. 07:49 AM - Re: Pilot seat height (Michael Perez)
    13. 09:19 AM - Jack's Wing Ribs (K5YAC)
    14. 10:03 AM - Re: Test (K5YAC)
    15. 10:11 AM - Re: Wood Options (Bill Church)
    16. 10:13 AM - Re: Jack's Wing Ribs (Jack Phillips)
    17. 10:34 AM - Re: Wood Options (899PM)
    18. 10:53 AM - a week from today--off topic (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    19. 11:06 AM - Re: Jack's Wing Ribs (dwilson)
    20. 11:08 AM - straight axle gear??? (TOPGUN)
    21. 11:19 AM - Re: straight axle gear??? (K5YAC)
    22. 11:35 AM - Re: straight axle gear??? (TOPGUN)
    23. 11:47 AM - Re: straight axle gear??? (Doug Dever)
    24. 11:49 AM - Re: a week from today--off topic (bmccraw@cogeco.ca)
    25. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Vortex Generators (gwread@aol.com)
    26. 01:44 PM - Wright replica flight in Dayton for Monday, October 5th: off topic  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    27. 01:47 PM - how to order straight axel gear plans (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    28. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Mike Tunnicliffe)
    29. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering (John Fay)
    30. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering (Gary Boothe)
    31. 04:44 PM - front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Ken Chambers)
    32. 05:29 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (mike)
    33. 06:09 PM - these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense of humor (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    34. 06:14 PM - cables (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    35. 06:40 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Robert Ray)
    36. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Robert Ray)
    37. 06:51 PM - FAASafety.gov - Unapproved Parts Notification "Unapproved Parts Notification" (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    38. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Ryan Mueller)
    39. 06:52 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (Ross Alexander)
    40. 07:04 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Ken Chambers)
    41. 07:09 PM - Thanks Chris-- ! Mike Cuy Sketches and Pictures (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    42. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Robert Ray)
    43. 07:21 PM - Spar splice (shad bell)
    44. 07:37 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Clif Dawson)
    45. 08:11 PM - Re: Re: Wood Options (Dave and Connie)
    46. 08:17 PM - Re: Spar splice (Michael McGowan)
    47. 08:52 PM - Re: Spar splice (Ryan Mueller)
    48. 08:52 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Mike Tunnicliffe)
    49. 11:12 PM - Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? (Clif Dawson)
    50. 11:42 PM - Re: these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense of humor (Gary Boothe)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:27:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: tailwheels
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    The Gre On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote: > I noticed another difference, the upper support wires for the horizonital > tail > do not attach to a single point but to two different locations on the > vertical > fin one the leading edge and one the aft. > > Russell > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>wrote: > >> > >> >> >> One other thing to consider if you don't have cables run >> to your tailwheel and the tail is already covered is that >> you can go the GN-1 route and link the tailwheel steering >> to the rudder itself, not to the rudder cables. The >> rudder needs to be stiffened but it may be easier for some >> to do it that way than to run a new set of tailwheel >> steering cables up to the rudder bar. >> >> See the last couple of pix at >> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets4.html >> for how it's done on the GN-1. >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> Air Camper NX41CC >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> >


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:32:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 16 years to complete Kevin's airplane-- explained
    !
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    In the past I have been hesitate to offer my opinion because lack of experience, when it comes to women my vast experience causes me to be hesitate in offering an opinion becuse I don't know any more than my first date when I was 15 years old 42 years ago. I can't blame not being finnished on anyone but then why blame who said it was a race. It a destinaion where the travel is as fun as the arrival. Russell On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 1:48 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>wrote: > i now what you talkin about Im stok in my proyect for 10 year and only > finished fuse parts of landin gears and tail section the same dilema. > > --- On *Thu, 9/24/09, kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>* wrote: > > > From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 16 years to complete Kevin's airplane-- > explained ! > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 11:46 AM > > kevin.purtee@us.army.mil <http://mc/compose?to=kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>> > > There's some truth to that. My life circumstances have changed > significantly over the last two years, to include an airplane friendly > girlfriend, so progress really picked up. > > There was other stuff, too, but, yeah, married was definitely a factor. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264759#264759<= - The > Pietenpol-List Email Forum > -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=264759#264759>h > --> > > > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > > * > > * > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:48:50 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: tailwheels
    Russell, Not sure what you are referencing, I've not followed the thread. I would comment, when visiting with Tom Brown at Blakesburg this summer, he mentioned he would do this if redoing his Piet. He mentioned it would stop the vibrations of the front of the vertical stabilizer. Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor 29 SW 58th Drive Des Moines, IA 50312 www.textors.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ray Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheels I noticed another difference, the upper support wires for the horizonital tail do not attach to a single point but to two different locations on the vertical fin one the leading edge and one the aft. Russell On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote: One other thing to consider if you don't have cables run to your tailwheel and the tail is already covered is that you can go the GN-1 route and link the tailwheel steering to the rudder itself, not to the rudder cables. The rudder needs to be stiffened but it may be easier for some to do it that way than to run a new set of tailwheel steering cables up to the rudder bar. See the last couple of pix at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets4.html for how it's done on the GN-1. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net <http://www.flysquirrel.net/> r> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== 17:52:00


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:48:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: tailwheels
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    Oh well it wasn't the tail wheel but in the pictures I noticed the support wires for the horizontal stabilizer were attached different, I don't think this was a Grega thing it was just something on the picture that caught my eye. Russell On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Jack <jack@textors.com> wrote: > Russell, > > Not sure what you are referencing, I=92ve not followed the thread. I wou ld > comment, when visiting with Tom Brown at Blakesburg this summer, he > mentioned he would do this if redoing his Piet. He mentioned it would st op > the vibrations of the front of the vertical stabilizer. > > Jack > > www.textors.com > > > *Jack Textor* > > 29 SW 58th Drive > > Des Moines, IA 50312 > > www.textors.com > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Ray > *Sent:* Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:49 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheels > > > I noticed another difference, the upper support wires for the horizonital > tail > > do not attach to a single point but to two different locations on the > vertical > > fin one the leading edge and one the aft. > > > Russell > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > One other thing to consider if you don't have cables run > to your tailwheel and the tail is already covered is that > you can go the GN-1 route and link the tailwheel steering > to the rudder itself, not to the rudder cables. The > rudder needs to be stiffened but it may be easier for some > to do it that way than to run a new set of tailwheel > steering cables up to the rudder bar. > > See the last couple of pix at > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets4.html > for how it's done on the GN-1. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > r> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ==== > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > .13.113/2399 > - Release Date: 09/27/09 17:52:00 > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:45:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Vortex Generators
    From: "tengulfromeo" <gwread@aol.com>
    Thanks for responding Jeff. I searched Vortex Generators and didn't see your post but read others. I even searched for author by your name. Maybe I missed it. What was the subject line of your post? Gary N10GR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265287#265287


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:09:42 AM PST US
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Vortex Generators
    Gary, Go to www.matronics.com/search. Select Pietenpol from the drop down menu. Search for 'boatright & vortex'. There you have it... Ryan Sent from my mobile device On Sep 28, 2009, at 6:44 AM, "tengulfromeo" <gwread@aol.com> wrote: > > Thanks for responding Jeff. I searched Vortex Generators and didn't > see your post but read others. I even searched for author by your > name. Maybe I missed it. What was the subject line of your post? > > Gary > N10GR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265287#265287 > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:10:47 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Pilot seat height
    I can't seem to find dimensions on the prints for the pilot seat height. Before I lose my mind all together, could someone tell me where I may find them. Or, if anyone has a suggestion on seat height, seat angle, etc, I would appreciate it.


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:30:39 AM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: Test
    > As far as my progress... I am collecting tools. Just picked up an > antique band saw a couple of days ago. It is really a nice one. Now, I > just need a good drill press and the shop will be ready! Bah. Chop, chop. Get going. You don't need a drill press for ribs! Get out there and start to "make little ones out of big ones" so you can start to "make big ones out of little ones!" Yes, I know I have no room to talk since I bought mine pre-assembled. N8031 flies great, by the way. Spent another 1.7 hours in it on Thursday and landed at the end of civil twilight on a cloudy day. Talk about cutting it close! There was a nice big blue flame out of the left exhaust stack, then some smoke as the unburned gas blew off. Top ground speed was 93 mph with calm winds and I'd estimate that we averaged about 86-88mph over the entire triangle we flew. Only 4.2 hours left before I can solo (thank you, Mr. Insurance Man). I hope it gets warmer again for a few days before the snow starts to fly... Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:31:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pilot seat height
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Michael, Looking at the bottom of the 'Drawing No. 1' plans sheet, I see the rear seat support shown as being 6" high. This piece of plywood goes on the front of the seat bottom (towards the middle of the sheet there is a 3D sketch of the rear seat that shows this), so that means the seat according to plans is 6" high in the front. The seat back is shown at 21" tall, so from those two dimensions you can figure the height and angle. HTH, Ryan On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote: > I can't seem to find dimensions on the prints for the pilot seat height. > Before I lose my mind all together, could someone tell me where I may find > them. Or, if anyone has a suggestion on seat height, seat angle, etc, I > would appreciate it. > > * > * > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:42:11 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Pilot seat height
    The main sheet with all the fuselage plans - down at the bottom are all the bulkheads (which define the seat positions). Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pilot seat height I can't seem to find dimensions on the prints for the pilot seat height. Before I lose my mind all together, could someone tell me where I may find them. Or, if anyone has a suggestion on seat height, seat angle, etc, I would appreciate it.


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:44:17 AM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: No RPM drop on mag check??
    Just a quick note on this subject - during our flight on Thursday we stopped in at friend's airfield and he lent me his digital rpm reader - I don't recall the official name of it at the moment. I have to do some more methodical tests, but what I did see suggests that the tachometer is low by about 11.4%. That is, at 1000RPM indicated on the tachometer, the prop was actually spinning at 1140RPM. So, at 2050RPM (which I do achieve when I lean it out) it's actually spinning at around 2280. That's close enough to redline for my tastes. When Tres delivered the plane he mentioned that at one point in the past the tach pegged itself at the high end. Turns out that some oil got up inside the tachometer from the cable. He cleaned the tachometer up, but apparently didn't recalibrate it. So, mystery solved on that one. Cheers, Dan Robert Ray wrote: > Why don't you disconnect both mags all input and out put wiring taps, > take an olmmeter and measure resistance across the coils, measure > the resistance to ground hopfully infinity, if they don't match there > it is. > Or if they don't match with in say < or > 15% > > Russell > > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov > <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>> wrote: > > <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>> > > > > > tkreiner wrote: > > <tkreiner@gmail.com <mailto:tkreiner@gmail.com>> > > Dan, > > Without fully understanding what's going on, and without an > extensive knowledge of your engine, it's somewhat difficult to > figure out what's going on. A few questions might inform the > audience. > > Are the mags and ignition harnesses, & spark plugs - new, used, > worn out? Explain their condition, as it might help. > > > One mag is new in the last year. One plug is new 'cause the A&P > broke the old one during the last Annual. The harness is probably > the original from 1979 and probably before. > > > > How about the mechanical condition of the engine? Rebuilt? > Describe. > > > 400 SMOH, ~800 hour since new (estimated). Logs are incomplete from > before 1965, hence the reason for the overhaul. One cylinder was > cracked and replaced in '65 with "the same oversize." Compressions > are all in the mid to high 70's. > > I sent out a sample of the oil for analysis and no red flags were found. > > This plane and engine has flown over 150 tach hours in the last 18 > months and 50 hours in the 2 weeks leading up to Oshkosh! > > > > What fuel are you using? > > > 100LL with one shot of Marvel Mystery Oil per 15 gallons. > > > > Perhaps there's no problem at all. Even though our expectation > is that the engine SHOULD show an rpm drop, that is not always > the case... On a plane I fly regularly, the entire ignition > system was recently replaced, i.e., new mags, harnesses, plugs, > and correctly timed. When the plane was put back into service, > there was an imperceptible rpm drop. > > It turned out, with a near perfect ignition system, clean fuel, > etc., the engine was burning so clean and completely that there > was no discernible drop in rpm during mag check. > > > That's what I'm leaning toward, too. When Tres flew it from > California they flew it flat out as fast and lean as it would go for > as long as possible. > > > > > Hope this adds some insight. > > > It does! I'm a glass half-full kind of guy but I like to make sure > there aren't any holes in the glass, too. > > The fact that at least one other engine out there in the world > exhibits the same sort of behaviour suggests that mine isn't > completely alone. 2 data points are always better than 1 (but still > not great...). > > Thanks, > Dan > > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > <http://fermigrid.fnal.gov/> > Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. > s List Un/Subscription, > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com > Matt Dralle, List Admin. > ==== > > > > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:49:06 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Pilot seat height
    I feel like an idiot. I've been looking at that print now for about two weeks...the dimensions went right past me. Thanks Ryan. --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote: From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pilot seat height Michael, Looking at the bottom of the 'Drawing No. 1' plans sheet, I see the rear seat support shown as being 6" high. This piece of plywood goes on the front of the seat bottom (towards the middle of the sheet there is a 3D sketch of the rear seat that shows this), so that means the seat according to plans is 6" high in the front. The seat back is shown at 21" tall, so from those two dimensions you can figure the height and angle. HTH, Ryan On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote: I can't seem to find dimensions on the prints for the pilot seat height. Before I lose my mind all together, could someone tell me where I may find them. Or, if anyone has a suggestion on seat height, seat angle, etc, I would appreciate it.


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:19:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Jack's Wing Ribs
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Jack... did you say that you just nailed your ribs to your spars? No T-88, just nails? I think I read that somewhere, and in at least a couple of ways, it sounds like a good idea. Can you clarify/explain? -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265330#265330


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:03:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Test
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    I agree, you don't need a drill press yet. I'm not sure if you have a disk/belt sander... if not, you WILL like to have one of those. Otherwise, make some sawdust and keep your eyes/ears open for a drill press. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265340#265340


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:11:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Wood Options
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Russell, I don't fully follow your logic. You say the Douglas Fir you have is "probably 18% stronger than spruce". Fair enough. Based on published values, the bending strength of Sitka Spruce is 9400 psi, vs Douglas Fir at 10,900 psi (16% difference - close enough). What confuses me is that you say you will reduce the cross-section of your longerons by 25%. This will result in a weaker structure. Probably a better substitution would be to make your longerons 15/16" square. that would provide a more representative substitution. Then again, the Air Camper has a robust structure (some say it is over-built), and the longerons of The Last Original were apparently 15/16" square Spruce, so maybe 3/4" x 1" DF longerons would be strong enough - but it's the "maybe" that I wouldn't be comfortable with. Just curious as to how you would come up with the size you have chosen. Also, by making the longerons rectangular rather than square, they will be stronger in one direction than the other. How do you chose which way to orient the longerons? Bill C. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ray Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 5:51 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Options ... I like the DF, I've built a motorcycle trailer out of it it's probably 18% stronger than spruce, takes epoxy like a sponge ... My Longerons will be DF 1 x 3/4 inch because it's heavier than spruce so I will take off 1/4 inch. Russell


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:13:58 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Jack's Wing Ribs
    Yep - just nails. I nailed through the capstrips into the spar, then read Tony Bingelis who said that was no longer the preferred method. Oh well - it worked. There is no reason to glue the ribs to the spars. The ribs aren't loaded in such a way to make them move relative to the spar and once they are rib-laced, they can't go anywhere anyway. The nails are just to hold them in place during covering. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack's Wing Ribs Jack... did you say that you just nailed your ribs to your spars? No T-88, just nails? I think I read that somewhere, and in at least a couple of ways, it sounds like a good idea. Can you clarify/explain? -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265330#265330


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:34:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood Options
    From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>
    Charlie Rubeck built and sold Western Red Cedar Ribs for many years. After talking with Charlie at Brodhead 11 years ago, I too built using WRC, 1/16 birch gussets and T-88. I was able to get all rib stock from (2) 8-ft 4x4's. At the time they were about $12ea. I recently bought some clear 8' WRC 4x4's for an arbor project and they were nearly $50ea. Be sure to follow aircraft grading standards when looking at the end-grain and slope. Being the engineer type, I built a test fixture and tested one of my finished ribs. I loaded the rib to 11G's before I heard a crack somewhere. Never did find it. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265347#265347


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:53:53 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: a week from today--off topic
    This should be cool to watch if the weather allows for it. http://www .nps.gov/daav/forteachers/celebratingpracticalflight.htm This Mark Dusenberry is one amazing guy. He's got over 40 successful fligh ts in his authentic Wright replicas. You don't hear much about him like you did Ken Hyde and others but he's got it going on. >From a few years ago. There are some great flying scenes from aboard the F lyer if you FF or wait long enough. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fAp4vXX_bE do not archive


    Message 19


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    Time: 11:06:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Jack's Wing Ribs
    From: "dwilson" <marwilson@charter.net>
    How I did it... NO glue, just two nails through each of the upright rib braces into the back of the front spar and the front of the rear spar. Use cement coated nails available from Wicks or ASS. I used a picture frame glazing plier to squeeze the nails into the spar. No need for a hammer. NO need to nail thru the top cap strip. Agree with Jack, ribs are not going to go anywhere after rib stitching anyway... Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265353#265353


    Message 20


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    Time: 11:08:08 AM PST US
    Subject: straight axle gear???
    From: "TOPGUN" <rmdinfo@lakefield.net>
    I have two sets of aircamper plans one from the 70's & 08' and neither of them show the construction details for the staight axle variety, only the split gear style. Is there another set of plans with a different option? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265354#265354


    Message 21


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    Time: 11:19:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: straight axle gear???
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    There is a supplemental plan for wooden landing gear that you can get from the Pietenpol family. Also, check out www.westcoastpiet.com for a great wood gear write up. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265357#265357


    Message 22


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    Time: 11:35:32 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: straight axle gear???
    From: "TOPGUN" <rmdinfo@lakefield.net>
    ok, your right. i just ordered the supplemental drawings from their site. That sheet must be lost in my original plans my dad had, cause the gear is all done, just need to re-do a few things. Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265359#265359


    Message 23


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    Time: 11:47:03 AM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: straight axle gear???
    It's a suppliment available throught Andrew or Don Pietenpol Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle gear??? > From: rmdinfo@lakefield.net > Date: Mon=2C 28 Sep 2009 11:08:00 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I have two sets of aircamper plans one from the 70's & 08' and neither of them show the construction details for the staight axle variety=2C only th e split gear style. Is there another set of plans with a different option? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265354#265354 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.


    Message 24


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    Time: 11:49:07 AM PST US
    From: bmccraw@cogeco.ca
    Subject: a week from today--off topic
    > They've also invited us to bring our full size flying replica of the Silver Dart, the first airplane to fly in Canada a hundred years ago. It'll be really neat to see them together and compare technologies of the time. Weather permitting of course, and yes, it's really made of bamboo,wire,and hockey tape. B McCraw > > This should be cool to watch if the weather allows for it. > http://www.nps.gov/daav/forteachers/celebratingpracticalflight.htm > > > This Mark Dusenberry is one amazing guy. He's got over 40 successful flights in his authentic Wright replicas. You > don't hear much about him like you did Ken Hyde and others but he's got it going on. > > >From a few years ago. There are some great flying scenes from aboard the Flyer if you FF or wait long enough. > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fAp4vXX_bE > > > do not archive > >


    Message 25


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    Time: 11:49:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Vortex Generators
    From: gwread@aol.com
    thank you -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2009 10:08 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vortex Generators ? Gary,? ? Go to www.matronics.com/search. Select Pietenpol from the drop down menu. Search for 'boatright & vortex'. There you have it...? ? Ryan? ? Sent from my mobile device? ? On Sep 28, 2009, at 6:44 AM, "tengulfromeo" <gwread@aol.com> wrote:? ? >? > Thanks for responding Jeff. I searched Vortex Generators and didn't > see your post but read others. I even searched for author by your > name. Maybe I missed it. What was the subject line of your post?? >? > Gary? > N10GR? >? >? >? >? > Read this topic online here:? >? > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265287#265287? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? ? ? ?


    Message 26


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    Time: 01:44:19 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Wright replica flight in Dayton for Monday, October 5th:
    off topic Of possible interest: >Thank you for your interest in the 104th Anniversary of Practical >Flight. The flights and pre-flight ceremony is open to everyone! You do not >have to be associated with an educational group to attend this part of the >event, and we encourage you to join us. The event is weather-contingent >and if it must be cancelled due to inclement weather, it will not be >rescheduled. The anticipated agenda is pretty simple: > > 8:30 9:30 a.m. Parking open for arrival of public > 9:30 9:50 a.m. Pre-Flight Ceremony >10:00 11:30 a.m. Flight(s) of replica Wright Flyer III > >The event will take place at Huffman Prairie Flying Field, which can be >accessed via Gate 16a on Wright-Patterson AFB. Parking will be limited; >staff will provide direction at the site. There is no seating provided; >you may bring your own lawnchair, if desired. The prairie surface is >unpaved and uneven. The event is outdoors on open grassland. There may >be >insects. Dress appropriately for the weather. > > >Karen S. Rosga >Education Technician >Dayton Aviation Heritage N.H.P. do not archive


    Message 27


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    Time: 01:47:00 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: how to order straight axel gear plans
    Number One: Go to the Pietenpol Family Web Site: http://www.pressenter.com/~apieten p/index.html Go to PRODUCT http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/index.html Scroll down-- keep scrolling down and you'll see 10 different products to c hoose from and one of them is the Straight Axel Gear Plans. You'll see this below: Product 7 Description; Original Pietenpol Air Camper Wooden Landing Gear Plans Original to first Air Camper's Bernard Pietenpol built. Original Air Camper Wooden Landing Gear Product 7 Price = $20.00 US Dollars *Free Shipping Top of Form Bottom of Form Top of Form Bottom of Form Mike C.


    Message 28


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    Time: 02:35:42 PM PST US
    From: "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl@CLEAR.NET.NZ>
    Subject: Re: Wood Options
    Hi , interesting, this would be one of the few areas where Red Cedar could be used, as ribs are generally made of larger sized timber than is required for strength, due to ease of fastening gussets etc. Another area could be the wing leading edge and perhaps the aileron spars, however I am not advocating a change to a timber of lesser strength without a proper analysis of the structure. The overall weight savings would not be great, especially as these lighter timbers tend to absorb more sealer, however it may allow the use of a less expensive / more readily available / clear grade, species of timber. regards Mike T. ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Options > > Charlie Rubeck built and sold Western Red Cedar Ribs for many years. After > talking with Charlie at Brodhead 11 years ago, I too built using WRC, 1/16 > birch gussets and T-88. I was able to get all rib stock from (2) 8-ft > 4x4's. At the time they were about $12ea. I recently bought some clear 8' > WRC 4x4's for an arbor project and they were nearly $50ea. Be sure to > follow aircraft grading standards when looking at the end-grain and slope. > > Being the engineer type, I built a test fixture and tested one of my > finished ribs. I loaded the rib to 11G's before I heard a crack somewhere. > Never did find it. > > -------- > PAPA MIKE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265347#265347 > > >


    Message 29


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    Time: 04:09:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering
    From: John Fay <jfay1950@gmail.com>
    LIst, My grandfather, Charles Fay, was a sign painter, but passed away a number of years ago. His most famous work, according to our family historians, has been seen by most of you. In the Air and Space museum in Washington, D.C., the name on the side of the *Spirit of St. Louis* was painted on by him. Not the original time, in San Diego, but after Lindbergh's national tour, flight to Mexico City, etc., before the plane was sent to the Smithsonian, it was completely recovered and refurbished in Chicago, and he was hired to come in and repaint the name on the nose. John Fay (about our only brush with fame) ** > > Luckily I have a dealer near me. They tried to give me a quick lesson, Ha! > There ain't no quick learning it! Which is the reason the lettering I did > the lettering on the side of my with a stencil and they are very simple > letters. See it here; > > > http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/5d022692.html > > This is the work of a sign painter; > > > http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/5d022683.html > > Ha! Little different! > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265085#265085 > >


    Message 30


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    Time: 04:35:23 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering
    John, .been there, seen that! I say you get bragging rights! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fay Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Kevin's Airplane and Lettering LIst, My grandfather, Charles Fay, was a sign painter, but passed away a number of years ago. His most famous work, according to our family historians, has been seen by most of you. In the Air and Space museum in Washington, D.C., the name on the side of the Spirit of St. Louis was painted on by him. Not the original time, in San Diego, but after Lindbergh's national tour, flight to Mexico City, etc., before the plane was sent to the Smithsonian, it was completely recovered and refurbished in Chicago, and he was hired to come in and repaint the name on the nose. John Fay (about our only brush with fame) Luckily I have a dealer near me. They tried to give me a quick lesson, Ha! There ain't no quick learning it! Which is the reason the lettering I did the lettering on the side of my with a stencil and they are very simple letters. See it here; http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/5d0226 92.html This is the work of a sign painter; http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/5d0226 83.html Ha! Little different! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265085#265085 s List Un/Subscription, www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com Matt Dralle, List Admin. ====


    Message 31


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    Time: 04:44:45 PM PST US
    Subject: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
    From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic@gmail.com>
    I've got one good spruce center section spar and one good doug fir center section spar. Anyone see any reason why I coldn't proceed like this, with doug fir for the front spar and spruce for the rear spar? These are 3/4 x 4 3/4 spars for the Riblett airfoil. My Dad mentioned something about the modulus of elasticity differences between the two materials, but I'm not sure it's an important consideration in this case. From what I can understand. Also, does anyone know the basics of spar splicing off the top of their head? What kind of a slope do you need? Stuff like that. Ken, trying to keep the project moving without a whole lot of cash on hand.


    Message 32


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    Time: 05:29:26 PM PST US
    From: "mike" <bike.mike@comcast.net>
    Subject: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
    Ken, The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load so, if there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't matter. Mike Hardaway _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? I've got one good spruce center section spar and one good doug fir center section spar. Anyone see any reason why I coldn't proceed like this, with doug fir for the front spar and spruce for the rear spar? These are 3/4 x 4 3/4 spars for the Riblett airfoil. My Dad mentioned something about the modulus of elasticity differences between the two materials, but I'm not sure it's an important consideration in this case. From what I can understand. Also, does anyone know the basics of spar splicing off the top of their head? What kind of a slope do you need? Stuff like that. Ken, trying to keep the project moving without a whole lot of cash on hand.


    Message 33


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    Time: 06:09:49 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense
    of humor Chris Tracy rattles Gary's cage: 'Good question Rick, how ARE those ribs coming along Gary? I notice you still have 15 to build. Didn't you have 15 done last week? It should only take you another 15 days to finish them right? 'By the way, mine look really nice on the spars right next to my completed center section. I am determined to fly before you do so you might as well get back to the kitchen remodel. ' Chris I'm kind of liking this trash talk at the line of scrimmage ! Come' on-- bring it or I'll fly before you do. I like the other one that Chris Tracy said about planting his landing gear upside down so his kids and wife don't hit it and so they can get a car in the garage but poor Chris ends up bashing his head into the axle with it up that high. Not fair Chris. Make the wife bash her shins a few times on that--flip it upright. (PS-- I'm no Dr. Phil when it comes to marital advice, trust me but I do have a narrow evil streak that comes and goes from time to time !) Mike C. do not archive


    Message 34


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    Time: 06:14:09 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: cables
    Used 7x19--- like Jack said, easier to get around thimbles and work with.


    Message 35


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    Time: 06:40:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    Well I would use the DF in the front, don't think the modulus of elasticity would matter since lots of airfoils have spars of different widths. Thats what i would do however I no expert. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM, mike <bike.mike@comcast.net> wrote: > Ken, > The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load so, if > there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't matter. > Mike Hardaway > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Chambers > *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 4:44 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? > > > I've got one good spruce center section spar and one good doug fir center > section spar. Anyone see any reason why I coldn't proceed like this, with > doug fir for the front spar and spruce for the rear spar? These are 3/4 x 4 > 3/4 spars for the Riblett airfoil. > > My Dad mentioned something about the modulus of elasticity differences > between the two materials, but I'm not sure it's an important consideration > in this case. From what I can understand. > > Also, does anyone know the basics of spar splicing off the top of their > head? What kind of a slope do you need? Stuff like that. > > Ken, trying to keep the project moving without a whole lot of cash on hand. > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > >


    Message 36


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    Time: 06:42:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood Options
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    Yeah I tested a rib, I loaded the rib with tractor weights and left it over night, the fake spars started to crush I don't remember the exact weight I think 1000 lbs, this wasn't certified wood. with 30 ribs that's 30,000 lbs' so yes I can do aerobatic maneuvers with my pianos, girlfriend and dog on board as long as my shoulder harness doesn't break while I'm pulling 12 negative g's, I also bought an old G-suit from an ex military fighter pilot to keep the blood out of my feet I'm wearing it right now. No kidding I did test a rib to that weight and was amazed. Russell On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz>wrote: > zk-owl@clear.net.nz> > > Hi , interesting, this would be one of the few areas where Red Cedar could > be used, as ribs are generally made of larger sized timber than is required > for strength, due to ease of fastening gussets etc. Another area could be > the wing leading edge and perhaps the aileron spars, however I am not > advocating a change to a timber of lesser strength without a proper analysis > of the structure. The overall weight savings would not be great, especially > as these lighter timbers tend to absorb more sealer, however it may allow > the use of a less expensive / more readily available / clear grade, species > of timber. > regards Mike T. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:33 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Options > > >> >> Charlie Rubeck built and sold Western Red Cedar Ribs for many years. After >> talking with Charlie at Brodhead 11 years ago, I too built using WRC, 1/16 >> birch gussets and T-88. I was able to get all rib stock from (2) 8-ft 4x4's. >> At the time they were about $12ea. I recently bought some clear 8' WRC 4x4's >> for an arbor project and they were nearly $50ea. Be sure to follow aircraft >> grading standards when looking at the end-grain and slope. >> >> Being the engineer type, I built a test fixture and tested one of my >> finished ribs. I loaded the rib to 11G's before I heard a crack somewhere. >> Never did find it. >> >> -------- >> PAPA MIKE >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265347#265347 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 37


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    Time: 06:51:25 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: FAASafety.gov - Unapproved Parts Notification "Unapproved
    Parts Notification" Of possible interest-- seems like a good thing to check once in a while, like the weather before you go flying. Mike C. Unapproved Parts Notification Notice Number: NOTC1921 It has come to our attention that not all users are aware that the Unapproved Parts Notification program is now hosted on the FAA website at http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/upn/. You should refer to this site on a regular basis to get the latest Unapproved Parts Notifications. In fact, general information and guidance about the Suspected Unapproved Parts Program is available at http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/. You have received this notice from FAASafety.gov because you have selected "Unapproved Parts Notification" in your preferences on your FAASafety.gov account. Click here to log in and edit your preferences on FAASafety.gov.<https://www.faasafety.gov/Users/pub/preferences.aspx> Start FAASTeam CFI Workshops any time! Find Workshop #4 in SPANS. FAASafety.gov<http://www.faasafety.gov/> | Email Preferences<http://www.faasafety.gov/Users/pub/preferences.aspx> | Opt Out<http://www.FAASafety.gov/users/pub/optout.aspx?uuid=6ED68232-D239-4BEE-BBFD-688DB0E0D6B4> Do not reply to this email as it is an unmonitored mailbox. Contact us<http://www.faasafety.gov/about/contact.aspx> for comments or questions.


    Message 38


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    Time: 06:51:25 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood Options
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    I still wonder, how exactly did you keep 1000 lbs of tractor weights balanced on the 1/2" wide capstrip of a single rib? Ryan On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote: > Yeah I tested a rib, I loaded the rib with tractor weights > and left it over night, the fake spars started to crush I don't remember > the exact weight I think 1000 lbs, this wasn't certified wood. > with 30 ribs that's 30,000 lbs' so yes I can do aerobatic maneuvers > with my pianos, girlfriend and dog on board as long as my shoulder > harness doesn't break while I'm pulling 12 negative g's, > I also bought an old G-suit from an ex military fighter pilot > to keep the blood out of my feet I'm wearing it right now. > > No kidding I did test a rib to that weight and was amazed. > > Russell >


    Message 39


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    Time: 06:52:11 PM PST US
    From: Ross Alexander <karbath1@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Re: Vortex Generators
    How did you sealo the gaps on the vertical and horizontal stabilizer? Duct tape or what would you suggest. Ross in Orangeville, Ontario, Canada C-FTJM =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: tengulfromeo <gwrea d@aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:04:50 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Vortex Generators=0A=0A--> Piet enpol-List message posted by: "tengulfromeo" <gwread@aol.com>=0A=0AI recent ly sealed my elevator gap which improved control response. (I strongly reco mmend gap seals on ailerons, rudder and elevator on the Pietenpol). =0A=0AJ ust for kicks this weekend I added vortex generators to the underside of my horizontal stabilizer and definitely noticed improved elevator authority o n landing flare. =0A=0ACrazy I know, and if they didn't look so darn notice able and out of character for an antique, but still it has me thinking..... ...has anyone had experience with vortex generators on the Piet wing? =0A =0AGary =0AN10GR=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://for =================0A=0A=0A ____________ ______________________________________________________=0AThe new Internet E xplorer=AE 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/


    Message 40


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    Time: 07:04:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
    From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic@gmail.com>
    Thanks Mike. Good to know How about the rest of the wing? More bending forces on the wing panels, seems to me. Ken On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:27 PM, mike <bike.mike@comcast.net> wrote: > Ken, > The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load so, if > there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't matter. > Mike Hardaway > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Chambers > *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 4:44 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? > > > I've got one good spruce center section spar and one good doug fir center > section spar. Anyone see any reason why I coldn't proceed like this, with > doug fir for the front spar and spruce for the rear spar? These are 3/4 x 4 > 3/4 spars for the Riblett airfoil. > > My Dad mentioned something about the modulus of elasticity differences > between the two materials, but I'm not sure it's an important consideration > in this case. From what I can understand. > > Also, does anyone know the basics of spar splicing off the top of their > head? What kind of a slope do you need? Stuff like that. > > Ken, trying to keep the project moving without a whole lot of cash on hand. > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798


    Message 41


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    Time: 07:09:41 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Thanks Chris-- ! Mike Cuy Sketches and Pictures
    For some who were interested in a CD of some of my chicken-scratch sketches and detailed photos please don't send me any money, stock options, or leftover pork chops but go to the site that Chris Tracy has mentioned below. What a great resource Chris ! I'm always learning something new when I look at other people's photos that you have graciously posted on your web site. Book mark this site and save money now ! I'm offering TWO of my sketch CD's and photo CD's for the price of one now !!! Shipping is free too ! Let's see how many write to me now wanting to see if they can get a CD. Money says at least one, maybe two. Mike C. _______________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of catdesigns@att.net [catdesigns@att.net] Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy Sketches and Pictures I have added Mike Cuy's pictures and sketches to the website. If you are like me and were inspired by Mike plane you will find the numerouse pictures and sketches Mike sent in to be really helpfull. I know I have found a thing or two I was curious about. The pictures can be found here. http://westcoastpiet.com/mike_cuy_page_2.htm His sketches can be found here. http://westcoastpiet.com/design_sketches.htm Thanks Mike for taking the time to send the pictures. As always, anyone who wants to send pictures or information to include on WestCoastPiet.com feel free to send them to me. Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com


    Message 42


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    Time: 07:12:43 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood Options
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    I cut a piece of construction grade lumber down to spar size, the fake spar's were about three feet long, I then hand selected my worse rib that had questionable grain, I glued it to the spars and placed both spars across saw horses, I had a box of three conductor inside telephone wire, I suspended the barbells from the rib which was upside down to simulate positive g forces. I had a full box of wire and I just used it to tie the weights under the rib attached to the rib. I ran out out weight at 533 lbs' I then moved all the weight to the front then to the back, then I asked Jan (German) if he had any tractor weights at work the next day so then I went over and borrowed 500 lbs' of tractor weights, I added those evenly distributing weight along the rib and left it over night. The next day the edges of the fake spars were starting to crush slightly, the rib was OK, and it only had gussets on one side. I also took pictures and have witnesses. NUF said Russell On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote: > I still wonder, how exactly did you keep 1000 lbs of tractor weights > balanced on the 1/2" wide capstrip of a single rib? > > Ryan > > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yeah I tested a rib, I loaded the rib with tractor weights >> and left it over night, the fake spars started to crush I don't remember >> the exact weight I think 1000 lbs, this wasn't certified wood. >> with 30 ribs that's 30,000 lbs' so yes I can do aerobatic maneuvers >> with my pianos, girlfriend and dog on board as long as my shoulder >> harness doesn't break while I'm pulling 12 negative g's, >> I also bought an old G-suit from an ex military fighter pilot >> to keep the blood out of my feet I'm wearing it right now. >> >> No kidding I did test a rib to that weight and was amazed. >> >> Russell >> > * > > > * > >


    Message 43


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    Time: 07:21:43 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Spar splice
    Acording to 43-13- spar splice needs to be at a 15:1 angle of the spar th ickness.- The length of the scarf would be 15 times 3/4(or 1 inch if you use 1inch spars)-of an inch or 11 1/4 inches long on each side (spar half ) of the joint.- then a reinforcement plate should be placed over the spl ice.- really you should look up ac43-13 online or buy a copy, there is a diagram in there that shows it better than I can explain it.- There are a few other particulars in there.- My advise is buy spar matrial the full length, scarf joints add weight, and lots of tedious precision work.- If it were a repair to an exsisting airplane I would say ok splice it but this is a new airplane, so it would be worth the extra couple hundred bucks to not fuss with the splice. - Just my 2 cents worth, Shad=0A=0A=0A


    Message 44


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    Time: 07:37:27 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
    I wouldn't worry about it. Basicaly all those things do is hold everything else in place and provide attachment points for cabanes, wing panels, etc. Look at the Moth series of AC. The crossbar between the cabanes is a small diameter tube, What you see as airfoil is actually only the fuel tank. Clif Well I would use the DF in the front, don't think the modulus of elasticity would matter since lots of airfoils have spars of different widths. Thats what i would do however I no expert. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM, mike <bike.mike@comcast.net> wrote: Ken, The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load so, if there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't matter. Mike Hardaway


    Message 45


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    Time: 08:11:36 PM PST US
    From: Dave and Connie <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Wood Options
    Since I started this. I did the math the other night after I posted my question and got a few replies. As I remember from long ago when I got my license a standard class aircraft is rated for 3 G and tested to 4.5 G. If you take a very fat Pietenpol at 1300 pounds and stress it to 4.5 G you are at 5850 pounds. There are 32 ribs in the wing but two are doubles for the three piece so you are dividing the weight across 30 ribs. That gets you to less than 200 pounds per rib. I have had a Decathalon up into that range and doubt that I would ever get my Taylorcraft, let alone a Pietenpol, into that situation. My conclusion was that I could just about use balsa wood for that. I am not all that worried about strength. I also found a local construction lumber yard that Doug Fir 2x8 12' long for $11. I am going to go and take a look. Dave Robert Ray wrote: > Yeah I tested a rib, I loaded the rib with tractor weights > and left it over night, the fake spars started to crush I don't remember > the exact weight I think 1000 lbs, this wasn't certified wood. > with 30 ribs that's 30,000 lbs' so yes I can do aerobatic maneuvers > with my pianos, girlfriend and dog on board as long as my shoulder > harness doesn't break while I'm pulling 12 negative g's, > I also bought an old G-suit from an ex military fighter pilot > to keep the blood out of my feet I'm wearing it right now. > > No kidding I did test a rib to that weight and was amazed. > > Russell > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@clear.net.nz > <mailto:zk-owl@clear.net.nz>> wrote: > > <zk-owl@clear.net.nz <mailto:zk-owl@clear.net.nz>> > > Hi , interesting, this would be one of the few areas where Red > Cedar could be used, as ribs are generally made of larger sized > timber than is required for strength, due to ease of fastening > gussets etc. Another area could be the wing leading edge and > perhaps the aileron spars, however I am not advocating a change to > a timber of lesser strength without a proper analysis of the > structure. The overall weight savings would not be great, > especially as these lighter timbers tend to absorb more sealer, > however it may allow the use of a less expensive / more readily > available / clear grade, species of timber. > regards Mike T. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "899PM" > <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com <mailto:rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com > <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:33 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Options > > > <rockriverrifle@hotmail.com <mailto:rockriverrifle@hotmail.com>> > > Charlie Rubeck built and sold Western Red Cedar Ribs for many > years. After talking with Charlie at Brodhead 11 years ago, I > too built using WRC, 1/16 birch gussets and T-88. I was able > to get all rib stock from (2) 8-ft 4x4's. At the time they > were about $12ea. I recently bought some clear 8' WRC 4x4's > for an arbor project and they were nearly $50ea. Be sure to > follow aircraft grading standards when looking at the > end-grain and slope. > > Being the engineer type, I built a test fixture and tested one > of my finished ribs. I loaded the rib to 11G's before I heard > a crack somewhere. Never did find it. > > -------- > PAPA MIKE >


    Message 46


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    Time: 08:17:35 PM PST US
    From: "Michael McGowan" <shadetree@socket.net>
    Subject: Re: Spar splice
    If you are building a one piece wing buying and shipping 30 ft spars would be prohibitive if you could even find them. Mike McGowan building rib jig ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 9:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar splice Acording to 43-13 spar splice needs to be at a 15:1 angle of the spar thickness. The length of the scarf would be 15 times 3/4(or 1 inch if you use 1inch spars) of an inch or 11 1/4 inches long on each side (spar half) of the joint. then a reinforcement plate should be placed over the splice. really you should look up ac43-13 online or buy a copy, there is a diagram in there that shows it better than I can explain it. There are a few other particulars in there. My advise is buy spar matrial the full length, scarf joints add weight, and lots of tedious precision work. If it were a repair to an exsisting airplane I would say ok splice it but this is a new airplane, so it would be worth the extra couple hundred bucks to not fuss with the splice. Just my 2 cents worth, Shad


    Message 47


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    Time: 08:52:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Spar splice
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Mike, I believe the poster Shad was responding to mentioned center section spars, which would mean he is building a three piece wing. If you are building a one-piece wing then you would have to splice the spars, per the plans. Ryan do not archive On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Michael McGowan <shadetree@socket.net>wrote: > If you are building a one piece wing buying and shipping 30 ft spars > would be prohibitive if you could even find them. > > Mike McGowan building rib jig > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2009 9:19 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Spar splice > > > Acording to 43-13 spar splice needs to be at a 15:1 angle of the spar > thickness. The length of the scarf would be 15 times 3/4(or 1 inch if you > use 1inch spars) of an inch or 11 1/4 inches long on each side (spar half) > of the joint. then a reinforcement plate should be placed over the splice. > really you should look up ac43-13 online or buy a copy, there is a diagram > in there that shows it better than I can explain it. There are a few other > particulars in there. My advise is buy spar matrial the full length, scarf > joints add weight, and lots of tedious precision work. If it were a repair > to an exsisting airplane I would say ok splice it but this is a new > airplane, so it would be worth the extra couple hundred bucks to not fuss > with the splice. > > Just my 2 cents worth, > Shad > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > >


    Message 48


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    Time: 08:52:29 PM PST US
    From: Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl@CLEAR.NET.NZ>
    Subject: Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
    Hi, the spars in the centre section see fairly high compression loads, Regards Mike T. ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce? I wouldn't worry about it. Basicaly all those things do is hold everything else in place and provide attachment points for cabanes, wing panels, etc. Look at the Moth series of AC. The crossbar between the cabanes is a small diameter tube, What you see as airfoil is actually only the fuel tank. Clif Well I would use the DF in the front, don't think the modulus of elasticity would matter since lots of airfoils have spars of different widths. Thats what i would do however I no expert. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:27 PM, mike <bike.mike@comcast.net> wrote: Ken, The center section between the cabanes doesn't get much bending load so, if there are any significant modulus differences, it shouldn't matter. Mike Hardaway


    Message 49


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    Time: 11:12:04 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: front spar doug fir, rear spar spruce?
    Yes they do but we are dealing with one of spruce, the other of fir. The question being is it going to make a difference which one goes where. Since the weaker one, made of spruce, is the "gold standard" as it were, then the point is moot. The fir being stronger is overkill. We are, of course, assuming that both have the same dimensions. Clif Hi, the spars in the centre section see fairly high compression loads, Regards Mike T.


    Message 50


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    Time: 11:42:08 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense
    of humor Still with the ribs! What's with you guys and the ribs! I did get 3/4 of my center section built last weekend! (sure wish I had built those ribs first!) Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: these West Coast guys seem like they have a good sense of humor Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> Chris Tracy rattles Gary's cage: 'Good question Rick, how ARE those ribs coming along Gary? I notice you still have 15 to build. Didn't you have 15 done last week? It should only take you another 15 days to finish them right? 'By the way, mine look really nice on the spars right next to my completed center section. I am determined to fly before you do so you might as well get back to the kitchen remodel. ' Chris I'm kind of liking this trash talk at the line of scrimmage ! Come' on-- bring it or I'll fly before you do. I like the other one that Chris Tracy said about planting his landing gear upside down so his kids and wife don't hit it and so they can get a car in the garage but poor Chris ends up bashing his head into the axle with it up that high. Not fair Chris. Make the wife bash her shins a few times on that--flip it upright. (PS-- I'm no Dr. Phil when it comes to marital advice, trust me but I do have a narrow evil streak that comes and goes from time to time !) Mike C. do not archive




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