Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Plywood web spar (Steve Glass)
2. 05:23 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (Jack)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (Peter W Johnson)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: Push/Pull on elevator (tkreiner)
5. 06:34 AM - Re: reinforced "end" ribs (Robert Ray)
6. 06:44 AM - Re: Leading edge fillerstrips (Gene Rambo)
7. 06:47 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (Robert Ray)
8. 06:47 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (Robert Ray)
9. 07:01 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (Doug Dever)
10. 07:26 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (Robert Ray)
11. 07:42 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (amsafetyc@aol.com)
12. 07:46 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (Dave and Connie)
13. 07:47 AM - Re: Leading edge fillerstrips (gcardinal)
14. 08:20 AM - Re: Leading edge fillerstrips (Gary Boothe)
15. 08:52 AM - One vs Three piece wing (Oscar Zuniga)
16. 08:54 AM - Re: Plywood web spar (Owen Davies)
17. 09:04 AM - throttle setup (Oscar Zuniga)
18. 09:08 AM - Re: Plywood web spar-- the right plywoods (Tim Willis)
19. 09:10 AM - Re: Leading edge fillerstrips (Paul N. Peckham)
20. 09:18 AM - Re: throttle setup (Tim Willis)
21. 09:19 AM - Re: Riblett 612 Leading Edge (Matt Redmond)
22. 09:21 AM - Re: Leading edge fillerstrips (Don Emch)
23. 09:39 AM - Re: throttle setup (Don Emch)
24. 11:40 AM - Re: leading edge (Jack Phillips)
25. 12:43 PM - Re: Plywood web spar-- the right plywoods (Owen Davies)
26. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Riblett 612 Leading Edge (Jack)
27. 01:11 PM - Douwe's progress report (Douwe Blumberg)
28. 02:19 PM - Re: leading edge .perfect (jorge lizarraga)
29. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: Push/Pull on elevator (Peter W Johnson)
30. 02:29 PM - Re: throttle setup; (jorge lizarraga)
31. 03:02 PM - Fw: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (shad bell)
32. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (Gary Boothe)
33. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (Gene & Tammy)
34. 05:00 PM - Re: reinforced "end" ribs (Bill Church)
35. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (H RULE)
36. 06:03 PM - Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (Don Emch)
37. 06:42 PM - Re: Riblett 612 Leading Edge (amsafetyc@aol.com)
38. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: reinforced "end" ribs (Clif Dawson)
39. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: reinforced "end" ribs (Robert Ray)
40. 08:29 PM - Re: Plywood web spar-- the right plywoods (Robert Ray)
41. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: reinforced "end" ribs (Robert Ray)
42. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: reinforced "end" ribs (Robert Ray)
43. 09:19 PM - my project tribute (long) (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
44. 10:04 PM - Vertical intercostals in ribs (stephen labash)
45. 10:08 PM - Re: my project tribute (long) ()
46. 11:03 PM - Re: Riblett 612 Leading Edge (Clif Dawson)
47. 11:51 PM - one/three piece wing (Dallas)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Plywood web spar |
Hi
Has anybody considered the plywood spar with spruce caps as used by Aussie
Peter. It seems the quality would be more consistent and the cost would pr
obably be less than getting a long length off spar material shipped. The p
ly would need to be spliced but even though it migh be a bit more work woul
d result in a stronger and with the smaller web thickness probably comparab
le weight. Would like to hear your thoughts.
Steve In Maine
Message 2
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| Subject: | Plywood web spar |
Steve,
I did just that and probably would not do it next time. The advantages
you
mention are correct. The additional work and time is tremendous.
Scarfing
3/8th material is not much fun. It took some practice to get it
perfect. I
did mine 10 to 1 and with some coaching from my TA am adding doublers at
the
joints. Mine are capped with Douglas fir. Alls things considered, I
would
use =BE inch Sitka. The archive has plenty of info on it. Attached is
a
sketch showing mine, additional pictures are on my site and
http://westcoastpiet.com/.
Good luck,
Jack
www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/>
Hi
Has anybody considered the plywood spar with spruce caps as used by
Aussie
Peter. It seems the quality would be more consistent and the cost would
probably be less than getting a long length off spar material shipped.
The
ply would need to be spliced but even though it migh be a bit more work
would result in a stronger and with the smaller web thickness probably
comparable weight. Would like to hear your thoughts.
Steve In Maine
10/03/09
06:20:00
Message 3
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| Subject: | Plywood web spar |
Jack/Steve,
Looking at your sketch I notice you used an =93I=94 beam construction. I
used
the =93U=94 beam method. I made up a jig to scarfe the ply and after a
bit of
practice got quite proficient at it. There are some pictures on my web
site
of the jig and showing a circular saw doing the work. The spar infill
blocking was spruce with ply on top. Jigging the spar when building can
result in a dead straight spar, rather than relying on the quality of
the
spar material.
I bought all my spruce from AS&S and it was cheaper to get the cap
strips
rather than complete spar material.
I would certainly do it again. I have demonstrated the strength of the
spar
with a couple of off runway excursions.
I purchased a set of UK PFA approved plans which included the made up
spar
amongst other mods.
Go for whatever suits you.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Sunday, 4 October 2009 11:17 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Plywood web spar
Steve,
I did just that and probably would not do it next time. The advantages
you
mention are correct. The additional work and time is tremendous.
Scarfing
3/8th material is not much fun. It took some practice to get it
perfect. I
did mine 10 to 1 and with some coaching from my TA am adding doublers at
the
joints. Mine are capped with Douglas fir. Alls things considered, I
would
use =BE inch Sitka. The archive has plenty of info on it. Attached is
a
sketch showing mine, additional pictures are on my site and
http://westcoastpiet.com/.
Good luck,
Jack
www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/>
Hi
Has anybody considered the plywood spar with spruce caps as used by
Aussie
Peter. It seems the quality would be more consistent and the cost would
probably be less than getting a long length off spar material shipped.
The
ply would need to be spliced but even though it migh be a bit more work
would result in a stronger and with the smaller web thickness probably
comparable weight. Would like to hear your thoughts.
Steve In Maine
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
270.14.3/2411 - Release Date: 10/03/09 06:20:00
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Push/Pull on elevator |
Peter,
You website, and explanations are great. Thanks for adding all the detail to help
all of us newbies.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266375#266375
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: reinforced "end" ribs |
I didn't say I was going to prepare for a ground loop, I said I've seen
people
build that way, I have already flown a 7AC 50 hours and although I could
make a mistake it hasn't been a problem,
I do know of a case where a man took his daughter for a ride in
his open cockpit plane and they burned alive after crashing on landing.
Now negative I don't think looking at accident reports is negative it's
prudent. WITH A LITTLE MORE FIRE PREVENTION MAYBE
they could of been saved. Do you have children? do you want
your plane to be fire prooff as possible if you take one for a ride?
No I'm going to fly my Piet one day and I'm going to do everything
I can to keep from getting killed in it.
Actually that's not negative that's positive. Wanting to live is a very
positive
outlook,
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds like you're planning ahead for ground loops, and recently you posted
> a message that indicated you were planning for an inflight engine fire.
> Why such a negative outlook?
>
> Bill C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Robert Ray
> Sent: Sat 03/10/2009 11:05 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: reinforced "end" ribs
>
> I've seen people reinforce the wing tip where as a ground loop is less
> likely to damage and also the end ribs need extra rigidity to keep the
> fabric from
> pulling them, there is info I think on this web site and west coast,
> I remeber one guy built his wing tip rib out of ash, he said incase he
> ground loops.
> I'm thinking of taking okume 1/8 over to the next rib on the inward one.
> or 1/16 okume with 1/4 runners.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:38 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I've seen a lot of people mention to add 1/16"th ply to reinforce the end
> > ribs of each wing panel and center section. I don't see this anywhere in
> > the plans - is it only to terminate the covering or is there another
> > reason. The plans call for extra braces... Also, it calls for 1 1/4" x
> > 1/16"thk. ply to be added to the top of the center section and inboard
> end
> > ribs. The center section plans call out 3/16" thk. capstrip in this area
> -
> > my ribs are all 1/4 x 1/2. Will adding 1/16" to the top be a problem?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom B.
> > Brooklyn Park, MN
> > working on the center section
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge fillerstrips |
no, it is for the whole wing. I don't even have plans for the 3-piece
wing, everything I have is for the one piece wing. The filler strips go
between every rib to give the plywood something to glue to on the aft
end, and I can understand why.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal<mailto:gcardinal@comcast.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
I believe the filler strip shown on the plans is for the center
section only, not the entire wing.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo<mailto:generambo@msn.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
well, the filler strips are in the plans, and otherwise there is
nothing for the rear of the plywood to nail to other than the ribs. For
me, leaving it out is not an option, I think it would "buckle" between
the ribs even forward of the spar and I do not think that would look
good.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com<mailto:helspersew@aol.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
Gene,
The filler strips that you mention...that's what I did. Later I
read that a few of the fellows said not to do this, because of what Greg
C. said. I contemplated cutting it away, but after much contemplation
decided to leave them. So we shall see if this was a mistake or not when
it flies. I was really unsure which way to go. Any flight reports out
there to substantiate?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar |
One more thing I WOULD not use okume for this one,
just my opinion.
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes if you go to the West Coast Piet site you'll find that per weight the
> I-beam and the box beam more efficient, the example's given are
> however with plywood that has some grain running at 45 degrees,
> This plywoodod is expensive, for my project I will however use Baltic
> birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains
> as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both
> sides in an I beam fashion, the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch,
> it is also important to scarf the plywood since the butting of the joints
> makes a weak joint.
> There will be two splices in the spar webbing plywood on my wing
> the heart of the 7.5 foot ply wood board cut out diagonally will be
> centered with the lift strut attachment. where to move
> the splices to less stressed areas.
> The two caps the fit the top of the spar will not come from the same
> board but an attempt to disperse any weakness across it's plane.
> The bottom cap will be 1"x1" minus the thickness of the plywood
> and the top will be 1 & 1/4 minus the thickness of the plywood.
> But then I'm not an engineer I can't recommend this is correct
> it's just what I will use.
> I probably won't save any weight but in my untested opinion
> should be pretty strong.
> The Baltic birch is cheap when compared to certified wood.
> It is so cheap also that I will test one to destruction.
> This is fun to me the build is fun, I have a plane to fly now I want
> to have fun building. The plywood is 5' by 5 ' since however
> the center will be cut out diagonally the three center pieces
> should be plenty to do a wing maybe a wing and a half.
>
>
> Russell
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>> Has anybody considered the plywood spar with spruce caps as used by Aussie
>> Peter. It seems the quality would be more consistent and the cost would
>> probably be less than getting a long length off spar material shipped. The
>> ply would need to be spliced but even though it migh be a bit more work
>> would result in a stronger and with the smaller web thickness probably
>> comparable weight. Would like to hear your thoughts.
>>
>> Steve In Maine
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar |
Yes if you go to the West Coast Piet site you'll find that per weight the
I-beam and the box beam more efficient, the example's given are
however with plywood that has some grain running at 45 degrees,
This plywoodod is expensive, for my project I will however use Baltic
birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains
as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both
sides in an I beam fashion, the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch,
it is also important to scarf the plywood since the butting of the joints
makes a weak joint.
There will be two splices in the spar webbing plywood on my wing
the heart of the 7.5 foot ply wood board cut out diagonally will be
centered with the lift strut attachment. where to move
the splices to less stressed areas.
The two caps the fit the top of the spar will not come from the same
board but an attempt to disperse any weakness across it's plane.
The bottom cap will be 1"x1" minus the thickness of the plywood
and the top will be 1 & 1/4 minus the thickness of the plywood.
But then I'm not an engineer I can't recommend this is correct
it's just what I will use.
I probably won't save any weight but in my untested opinion
should be pretty strong.
The Baltic birch is cheap when compared to certified wood.
It is so cheap also that I will test one to destruction.
This is fun to me the build is fun, I have a plane to fly now I want
to have fun building. The plywood is 5' by 5 ' since however
the center will be cut out diagonally the three center pieces
should be plenty to do a wing maybe a wing and a half.
Russell
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
> Has anybody considered the plywood spar with spruce caps as used by Aussie
> Peter. It seems the quality would be more consistent and the cost would
> probably be less than getting a long length off spar material shipped. The
> ply would need to be spliced but even though it migh be a bit more work
> would result in a stronger and with the smaller web thickness probably
> comparable weight. Would like to hear your thoughts.
>
> Steve In Maine
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Plywood web spar |
I would also use 45deg ply. I considerd it due to cost as I have more time
than money=2C but I'm going to use 3/4 spruce for siplicity. I like simpl
e
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood web spar
From: rray032003@gmail.com
One more thing I WOULD not use okume for this one=2C
just my opinion.
On Sun=2C Oct 4=2C 2009 at 9:10 AM=2C Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wro
te:
Yes if you go to the West Coast Piet site you'll find that per weight the
I-beam and the box beam more efficient=2C the example's given are
however with plywood that has some grain running at 45 degrees=2C
This plywoodod is expensive=2C for my project I will however use Baltic
birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains
as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both
sides in an I beam fashion=2C the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch=2C
it is also important to scarf the plywood since the butting of the joints
makes a weak joint.
There will be two splices in the spar webbing plywood on my wing
the heart of the 7.5 foot ply wood board cut out diagonally will be
centered with the lift strut attachment. where to move
the splices to less stressed areas.
The two caps the fit the top of the spar will not come from the same
board but an attempt to disperse any weakness across it's plane.
The bottom cap will be 1"x1" minus the thickness of the plywood
and the top will be 1 & 1/4 minus the thickness of the plywood.
But then I'm not an engineer I can't recommend this is correct
it's just what I will use.
I probably won't save any weight but in my untested opinion
should be pretty strong.
The Baltic birch is cheap when compared to certified wood.
It is so cheap also that I will test one to destruction.
This is fun to me the build is fun=2C I have a plane to fly now I want
to have fun building. The plywood is 5' by 5 ' since however
the center will be cut out diagonally the three center pieces
should be plenty to do a wing maybe a wing and a half.
Russell
On Sun=2C Oct 4=2C 2009 at 7:28 AM=2C Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com> w
rote:
Hi
Has anybody considered the plywood spar with spruce caps as used by Aussie
Peter. It seems the quality would be more consistent and the cost would pr
obably be less than getting a long length off spar material shipped. The p
ly would need to be spliced but even though it migh be a bit more work woul
d result in a stronger and with the smaller web thickness probably comparab
le weight. Would like to hear your thoughts.
Steve In Maine
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar |
It shouldn't take that long to put a few scarfs and splices into the ply
I'm scarfing with epoxy thicken with lots of silica, I know some boat
builders won't use epoxy in plywood scarfs but I think I can manage it.
Again go to the wood advisories on west coast piet. Read the complete
article on web spars.
And a big thank you to the ones that have provided this excellent help page!
Russell
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
> I would also use 45deg ply. I considerd it due to cost as I have more time
> than money, but I'm going to use 3/4 spruce for siplicity. I like simple
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 09:13:19 -0400
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood web spar
> From: rray032003@gmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> One more thing I WOULD not use okume for this one,
> just my opinion.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes if you go to the West Coast Piet site you'll find that per weight
> the
> I-beam and the box beam more efficient, the example's given are
> however with plywood that has some grain running at 45 degrees,
> This plywoodod is expensive, for my project I will however use Baltic
> birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains
> as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both
> sides in an I beam fashion, the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch,
> it is also important to scarf the plywood since the butting of the joints
> makes a weak joint.
> There will be two splices in the spar webbing plywood on my wing
> the heart of the 7.5 foot ply wood board cut out diagonally will be
> centered with the lift strut attachment. where to move
> the splices to less stressed areas.
> The two caps the fit the top of the spar will not come from the same
> board but an attempt to disperse any weakness across it's plane.
> The bottom cap will be 1"x1" minus the thickness of the plywood
> and the top will be 1 & 1/4 minus the thickness of the plywood.
> But then I'm not an engineer I can't recommend this is correct
> it's just what I will use.
> I probably won't save any weight but in my untested opinion
> should be pretty strong.
> The Baltic birch is cheap when compared to certified wood.
> It is so cheap also that I will test one to destruction.
> This is fun to me the build is fun, I have a plane to fly now I want
> to have fun building. The plywood is 5' by 5 ' since however
> the center will be cut out diagonally the three center pieces
> should be plenty to do a wing maybe a wing and a half.
>
>
> Russell
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> Hi
> Has anybody considered the plywood spar with spruce caps as used by Aussie
> Peter. It seems the quality would be more consistent and the cost would
> probably be less than getting a long length off spar material shipped. The
> ply would need to be spliced but even though it migh be a bit more work
> would result in a stronger and with the smaller web thickness probably
> comparable weight. Would like to hear your thoughts.
>
> Steve In Maine
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar |
I have no scarfs in mine, I got 16' lengths of 1x12" poplar and cut my spars out
of that. It too took a good bit or work getting straight piece out of them but
they did yield some nice 1 inch spar material. Once cut and angled the top
edge to match the rib, I mounted them on to my bench jig and routed them out.
Lumber that long from the mill does take some work to get the hook amd twist out
of.
That gave me the full finished dimension spars. Lots of work but got some nice
straight un- spliced spars to work with.
John
------Original Message------
From: Steve Glass
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Oct 4, 2009 7:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywood web spar
Hi
Has anybody considered the plywood spar with spruce caps as used by Aussie Peter.
It seems the quality would be more consistent and the cost would probably be
less than getting a long length off spar material shipped. The ply would need
to be spliced but even though it migh be a bit more work would result in a stronger
and with the smaller web thickness probably comparable weight. Would like
to hear your thoughts.
Steve In Maine
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar |
Russell,
Scarfing plywood with thickened epoxy is a very standard practice in
kayak building. I used Raka epoxy and fumed silica when I built my
Chesapeake 17. That one used 4mm plywood so it was much easier to cut
the scarfs by hand than it would be in 3/8" or thicker ply but I think
that I could do it with just a couple of practice pieces to the back in
form.. I marked a couple of lines, clamped the ply to the edge of a
table, and cut the joints with a plane.
Dave
Robert Ray wrote:
> It shouldn't take that long to put a few scarfs and splices into the ply
> I'm scarfing with epoxy thicken with lots of silica, I know some boat
> builders won't use epoxy in plywood scarfs but I think I can manage it.
> Again go to the wood advisories on west coast piet. Read the complete
> article on web spars.
>
> And a big thank you to the ones that have provided this excellent help
> page!
>
>
> Russell
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge fillerstrips |
Hi Gene,
I have the 1933 / 1934 plans for the one-piece wing and the filler
strips are only shown for the center of the wing where the fuel tank is
placed. The filler strips are on both the front and rear spars to keep
the fabric fair as it covers the fuel tank.
The plywood is not a structural component and only needs to be attached
to the ribs.
The aft end of the plywood needs to be able to be pulled down between
the ribs as the fabric is tightened to prevent a sharp transition.
200+ hours on NX18235 (Pietenpol airfoil) with no filler strips and good
flying qualities.
Cheers,
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
no, it is for the whole wing. I don't even have plans for the 3-piece
wing, everything I have is for the one piece wing. The filler strips go
between every rib to give the plywood something to glue to on the aft
end, and I can understand why.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
I believe the filler strip shown on the plans is for the center
section only, not the entire wing.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
well, the filler strips are in the plans, and otherwise there is
nothing for the rear of the plywood to nail to other than the ribs. For
me, leaving it out is not an option, I think it would "buckle" between
the ribs even forward of the spar and I do not think that would look
good.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
Gene,
The filler strips that you mention...that's what I did. Later I
read that a few of the fellows said not to do this, because of what Greg
C. said. I contemplated cutting it away, but after much contemplation
decided to leave them. So we shall see if this was a mistake or not when
it flies. I was really unsure which way to go. Any flight reports out
there to substantiate?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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| Subject: | Leading edge fillerstrips |
My plans are dated, "1937", but the wing page is dated, "3-3-34". It shows
"Filler strips" where the fuel tank is located (one piece wing), but nowhere
else.
I'm building the 3-piece wing, which provides a supplemental page for the
center section only. It is dated, "January 10, 1975," and revised on, "March
13, 1982." It shows no filler strips at all in the center section, or the
adjoining wing parts (not very much shown). The filler strips seemed
necessary for the center section with fuel tank, so I put them in.
I agree with Greg that the transition will be much smoother without filler
strips on the wings (they are not shown anyhow)..my 2 cents..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
Hi Gene,
I have the 1933 / 1934 plans for the one-piece wing and the filler strips
are only shown for the center of the wing where the fuel tank is placed. The
filler strips are on both the front and rear spars to keep the fabric fair
as it covers the fuel tank.
The plywood is not a structural component and only needs to be attached to
the ribs.
The aft end of the plywood needs to be able to be pulled down between the
ribs as the fabric is tightened to prevent a sharp transition.
200+ hours on NX18235 (Pietenpol airfoil) with no filler strips and good
flying qualities.
Cheers,
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo <mailto:generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
no, it is for the whole wing. I don't even have plans for the 3-piece wing,
everything I have is for the one piece wing. The filler strips go between
every rib to give the plywood something to glue to on the aft end, and I can
understand why.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal <mailto:gcardinal@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
I believe the filler strip shown on the plans is for the center section
only, not the entire wing.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo <mailto:generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
well, the filler strips are in the plans, and otherwise there is nothing for
the rear of the plywood to nail to other than the ribs. For me, leaving it
out is not an option, I think it would "buckle" between the ribs even
forward of the spar and I do not think that would look good.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge fillerstrips
Gene,
The filler strips that you mention...that's what I did. Later I read that a
few of the fellows said not to do this, because of what Greg C. said. I
contemplated cutting it away, but after much contemplation decided to leave
them. So we shall see if this was a mistake or not when it flies. I was
really unsure which way to go. Any flight reports out there to substantiate?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
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Message 15
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| Subject: | One vs Three piece wing |
Jim wrote-
>Mine with the 3 piece and 65 Cont. weighs 607#
Excellent! I know I could get 41CC down to that
weight. It's got a vertical speed indicator,
gyro turn and bank, and venturi, along with a few
other things that add weight but could easily be
dispensed with. Six hundred pounds is not a bad
target to shoot for with an A65 on the nose. The
Piet manual shows an empty weight with the water-
cooled Ford of 610 lbs.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar |
Among other comments, Robert Ray wrote:
> ... for my project I will however use Baltic
> birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains
> as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both
> sides in an I beam fashion, the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch, ...
That should work wonderfully, right up until the plywood delaminates.
Baltic birch ply is high quality stuff, but nearly everything you'll
find in the U.S. is interior grade and much less water resistant than
aircraft or marine ply.
I say "nearly" just to be cautious. I've never heard of any that isn't
interior grade, but if I say it doesn't exist someone probably will come
up with an obscure counter-example.
It might be safe enough if encapsulated in epoxy, but that would erode a
lot of the savings. And there would still be this worried little voice
in the back of my head every time I flew with Baltic birch spars.
Just out of curiosity, you might run the numbers on okoume. The next
size up could be strong enough without adding too much weight or cost.
Owen
Message 17
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Jorge; I think the throttle that is shown in the
plans is about as simple as you can get. One thing
that would be an improvement is to link the front
and rear throttle levers with a rod or tube, then
carry a Bowden cable forward to the carb from the
front throttle. I've seen pictures of that setup
on more than one Piet but I don't remember whose
airplane had it. The last ones I saw were of a
really nice, clean, simple cockpit with beautifully
varnished plywood cockpit; I'm no wood expert but
it looked like birch ply (blonde color), dark hardwood
knobs on the throttles.
41CC has the pilot's throttle up near the cockpit
coaming with the pivot at the bottom; upside-down
from what the plans show. I like that setup since
it gives more room down in the cockpit but when the
weather is cold, it puts your hand almost out in
the wind. I can post a photo of the throttle if you
are interested. And the front throttle is just a
knob attached to the inner wire of the Bowden cable
with bug nuts to secure it.
PS: "Cold", as defined in Texas, is anything
below about 80F.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar-- the right plywoods |
Owen/Robert,
You have to really LOOK for marine/aero plywood, even at specialty lumber sources.
Of course, Wicks and AS&S stock the right stuff. Any remote source usually
means cutting for shipping-- likely into 8 foot strips, maybe under 2 feet wide,
if UPS shipping. Of course, those dimensions may work well for you, considering
that you need under 6 inches tall for spars, and will be scarfing two
pieces to make about 14 foot R&L wings.
Here in Austin, TX, we can get marine ply at Fine Lumber. I bought 1.5mm okume
marine ply for leading edge from Boulter Plywood in greater Boston, MA. (Fine
did not have 1.5mm plywood.) Boulter cut mine into 2 ft. by 8 ft. and shipped
by truck to my door. The driver rolled it into my garage.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2009 10:54 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood web spar
>
>
>Among other comments, Robert Ray wrote:
>> ... for my project I will however use Baltic
>> birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains
>> as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both
>> sides in an I beam fashion, the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch, ...
>That should work wonderfully, right up until the plywood delaminates.
>Baltic birch ply is high quality stuff, but nearly everything you'll
>find in the U.S. is interior grade and much less water resistant than
>aircraft or marine ply.
>
>I say "nearly" just to be cautious. I've never heard of any that isn't
>interior grade, but if I say it doesn't exist someone probably will come
>up with an obscure counter-example.
>
>It might be safe enough if encapsulated in epoxy, but that would erode a
>lot of the savings. And there would still be this worried little voice
>in the back of my head every time I flew with Baltic birch spars.
>
>Just out of curiosity, you might run the numbers on okoume. The next
>size up could be strong enough without adding too much weight or cost.
>
>Owen
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge fillerstrips |
For the benefit of those who might not have seen it, the very first issue of the
Buckeye Pietenpol Newsletter (July 1983), talks about about the use of filler
strips. Here is what was written: "In covering the top leading edge of your
wing, don't be tempted to use aluminum, nor to provide a strip to hold up the
rear of the plywood between the ribs. That's how it should be - unsupported.
You'll find that method, which is shown on the plans, provides a smooth airfoil,
without the abrupt change in surface you get by having that rear edge rigid."
Sage advice from the past.
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266405#266405
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: throttle setup |
Jorge & Oscar,
Corky's second project (now mine) is as Oscar described-- the two throttles are
connected by small diameter steel push-pull tubes, with a Bowden cable from the
front pit to the carb. The handles are on top. I plan for a left glove (leather,
no lace, Michael Jackson) to keep 100 mph June bugs and chilling air off
my knuckles. Usually chilling air is not a major factor in TX, or Oscar would
have fixed that.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2009 11:01 AM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup
>
>
>
>Jorge; I think the throttle that is shown in the
>plans is about as simple as you can get. One thing
>that would be an improvement is to link the front
>and rear throttle levers with a rod or tube, then
>carry a Bowden cable forward to the carb from the
>front throttle. I've seen pictures of that setup
>on more than one Piet but I don't remember whose
>airplane had it. The last ones I saw were of a
>really nice, clean, simple cockpit with beautifully
>varnished plywood cockpit; I'm no wood expert but
>it looked like birch ply (blonde color), dark hardwood
>knobs on the throttles.
>
>41CC has the pilot's throttle up near the cockpit
>coaming with the pivot at the bottom; upside-down
>from what the plans show. I like that setup since
>it gives more room down in the cockpit but when the
>weather is cold, it puts your hand almost out in
>the wind. I can post a photo of the throttle if you
>are interested. And the front throttle is just a
>knob attached to the inner wire of the Bowden cable
>with bug nuts to secure it.
>
>PS: "Cold", as defined in Texas, is anything
>below about 80F.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 Leading Edge |
>>>my ex-wife cut the work bench in half<<<
No offense, but the best place for some people is floating face-down in a lake.
Do not archive.
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes I went through a divorce and ended up in an apartment, my ex-wife cut
> the work bench
> in half I also loss my job, now I have a work bench, a joband garage again,
> the ribs come down
> from the my mom's attic and I am now starting again exactly where I left
> off.
>
> Russell
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> When I originally drew out the section (using DesignCAD) at the front spar
>> location it measured a little over 5 1/4" tall between the capstrips. So my
>> block just takes up that extra 1/2" or so.
>>
>> For the leading edge, if I can't find a hand rail that looks right I
>> figured I use the classical method. I'll rib a couple angled cuts from
>> appropriately sized strips of pine, fir, hemlock or whatever I can find,
>> then hand plane them to rounded sections. Making those long curled shavings
>> sounds like it might be kind of satisfying. I enjoy working with hand tools
>> when it's appropriate - planing, OK; making those long angled rip cuts, time
>> for power tools.
>>
>> --Ken
>>
>> Dave and Connie wrote:
>>>
>>> <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
>>>
>>> Ken,
>>>
>>> I figured that the original size spars would work with blocks.
>>>
>>> What are you planning to do for the leading edge? It looks like it would
>>> be a little tall for Mike Cuy's banister stock.
>>>
>>> Cave
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken Howe wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am building my 612 ribs to use the standard 4 3/4" tall spars. The
>>>> rear
>>>> spar fits in just right, with a little space for a wedge to be inserted
>>>> between the top of the spar and the rib. The front of the rib is, as you
>>>> note, quite a bit taller where the front spar goes. I've designed my
>>>> truss
>>>> to insert a small block under the spar so that the space betwen the
>>>> block
>>>> and the top capstrip is 4 3/4". I'd posted a few pictures a month or 2
>>>> back
>>>> to the list so you might find them in the archives. I don't have any of
>>>> my
>>>> pictures here at work, so I've whipped out a quick and dirty sketch to
>>>> show
>>>> what I've done.
>>>>
>>>> On the Riblett section, there is more of a curve in the leading edge of
>>>> the
>>>> bottom capstrip. I didn't feel comfortable dry fitting my strips into
>>>> the
>>>> jig with that much bend, so I am pre-bending the bottom strips similar
>>>> to
>>>> what is done for the top strip.
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> ====
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge fillerstrips |
Before covering, the plywood does seem a little strange in that it is unsupported
without the filler strips on there. After covering though, you can see why
it is done that way. You get a really nice transition from plywood leading edge
to open area. I'm currently covering Aeronca Chief wings. They have aluminum
leading edges. There are no filler strips between the ribs on that leading
edge either. There are flanges though, bent into the aluminum though that
are intended to stiffen that back edge. Those flanges do stiffen it enough to
create somewhat of a sharp transition. I understand the idea of maintaining
the airfoil shape, which is what the intention is for the Aeronca, but I think
that does not need to be the intention for the Piet.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266409#266409
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: throttle setup |
I did mine like the plans show. It seems to be at about the right height for me
to use my thigh as an arm rest. The rod is just a 1/4" steel rod that is threaded
at each end with a 1/4-28 die. There is no lever in the front cockpit,
it just connects to a Bowden cable. When a front passenger is flying they just
grab onto the rod and control the throttle that way. I was concerned about
having a lever up there that could get caught on a passenger's clothing, jacket
or arm and could limit my use of it. It could happen and they might not even
know they are hung up on it. I'm very leary of having stuff up front that
can be disturbed by unknowing passengers.
Here is a shot of the throttle...
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/Brodhead__20070720_093.JPG
Another shot at the front where it connects to the bowden cable.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/Brodhead__20070720_096.JPG
I had a little clearance issue so I had to file a little bit of the gusset away,
which can be seen in that second shot. I need to go back in there and clean
that up and get a little varnish on there.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266412#266412
Message 24
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Gene,
As others have already indicated, the filler strips are at least
unnecessary, and are possibly detrimental. As for using nailing strips to
hold the plywood in place while the glue cures, that is exactly what I did -
a layer of waxed paper over the plywood, then a thin strip of scrap spruce
with nails driven through the spruce, the plywood and into the ribs and
leading edge. Once the glue had cured, I peeled off the nailing strips and
waxed paper and was done. The small gaps between panels was filled in with
PolyFiber's "SuperFil" and sanded smooth.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
I KNOW this has been discussed, but a search of the archives does not turn
up an answer to my exact question. I am ready to install the plywood on my
leading edge. (OK, let's get terminology out of the way here. The very
front piece I am calling the "nose piece." That, together with the plywood
on the top side back to the spar forms the "leading edge." On the top of
the spar between the ribs are the "filler strips")
Since the plans don't specify, I made the filler strips 1/2" wide and glued
them flush with the front face of the spar (for several reasons that I won't
go into here) Because they follow the curve of the top capstrip, they are
about 3/8" tall at the rear. OK, the plans say for the plywood to be 9"
wide. Even overlapping the ply over the nose piece 1/2", the ply goes about
3/4" beyond the back of the filler strip. I don't have a problem with that,
it probably helps fair the fabric in, but I was wondering what most of you
do. Do any of you cut the ply to end at the back of the filler strip?
Seems like that would make the edge pretty sharp for the fabric to follow.
The next question is the sequence of glueing it on. I am planning on using
nail strips to hold it down to the nose piece. Just wondering whether to
glue/nail to the spar filler first and then bend down, or the other way
around, or am I worrying too much??
All this being said, I just found a place in Mass where I bought my 1/16"
okume plywood. The 4x8 sheet was $27, the first two cuts were free.
Cutting it into 9" pieces took 5 cuts, so for around $30 plus shipping, I
had my leading edge material. Can't think of the name now, but contact me
offline and I can give it to anyone who is interested.
Gene
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar-- the right plywoods |
Tim Willis wrote:
> You have to really LOOK for marine/aero plywood, even at specialty lumber sources.
Happily, I live on the east coast of Florida. Marine plywood, okoume or
otherwise, is pretty easy to find. Marine okoume is what I meant, of course.
It has a long history in airplanes. A lot of French homebuilts have used
it, including the older Jodels. The One Design still calls for it,
though it appears to be limited to the wing skin; the spar is laminated
from Doug fir or spruce.
Complaints I've seen say that it is dimensionally unstable, susceptible
to rot and fatigue (?), and may not meet any particular standard, so
that some sheets might have areas of bad grain runout overlapping in all
the plies. That last should not be a problem in anything that meets
BS1088. I would tend to trust Bruynzeel, which I believe does.
The "close enough for government work" analysis seems to be that its
strength characteristics are like those of mahogany ply.
In 2004, Shelman (found through the Wayback Machine at
http://web.archive.org/web/20031014012429/http://shelmanusa.com/SpecShelmarine.cfm)
listed the following properties for its Shelmarine okoume plywood:
Density: 420-520 kg/M3
Property lb/in2
Ultimate tensile strength 4350
Ultimate bending strength 5800
Ultimate shearing strength
following thickness direction 435
parallel to the veneer plies 1160
Modulus of elasticity 580K
Bending/tension permissable load 1885
More than anyone probably wanted to know....
> I bought 1.5mm okume marine ply for leading edge from Boulter Plywood in greater
Boston, MA.
The perfect material for the purpose, IMHO. And Boulter's price is
right, or was the last time I looked.
Owen
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 Leading Edge |
Matt, I won't dignify your statement with a comment, Jack
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 4, 2009, at 11:18, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
>
>>>> my ex-wife cut the work bench in half<<<
>
> No offense, but the best place for some people is floating face-down
> in a lake.
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Yes I went through a divorce and ended up in an apartment, my ex-
>> wife cut
>> the work bench
>> in half I also loss my job, now I have a work bench, a job and
>> garage again,
>> the ribs come down
>> from the my mom's attic and I am now starting again exactly where I
>> left
>> off.
>>
>> Russell
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> When I originally drew out the section (using DesignCAD) at the
>>> front spar
>>> location it measured a little over 5 1/4" tall between the
>>> capstrips. So my
>>> block just takes up that extra 1/2" or so.
>>>
>>> For the leading edge, if I can't find a hand rail that looks right I
>>> figured I use the classical method. I'll rib a couple angled cuts
>>> from
>>> appropriately sized strips of pine, fir, hemlock or whatever I can
>>> find,
>>> then hand plane them to rounded sections. Making those long curled
>>> shavings
>>> sounds like it might be kind of satisfying. I enjoy working with
>>> hand tools
>>> when it's appropriate - planing, OK; making those long angled rip
>>> cuts, time
>>> for power tools.
>>>
>>> --Ken
>>>
>>> Dave and Connie wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
>>>>
>>>> Ken,
>>>>
>>>> I figured that the original size spars would work with blocks.
>>>>
>>>> What are you planning to do for the leading edge? It looks like
>>>> it would
>>>> be a little tall for Mike Cuy's banister stock.
>>>>
>>>> Cave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ken Howe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am building my 612 ribs to use the standard 4 3/4" tall spars.
>>>>> The
>>>>> rear
>>>>> spar fits in just right, with a little space for a wedge to be
>>>>> inserted
>>>>> between the top of the spar and the rib. The front of the rib
>>>>> is, as you
>>>>> note, quite a bit taller where the front spar goes. I've
>>>>> designed my
>>>>> truss
>>>>> to insert a small block under the spar so that the space betwen
>>>>> the
>>>>> block
>>>>> and the top capstrip is 4 3/4". I'd posted a few pictures a
>>>>> month or 2
>>>>> back
>>>>> to the list so you might find them in the archives. I don't
>>>>> have any of
>>>>> my
>>>>> pictures here at work, so I've whipped out a quick and dirty
>>>>> sketch to
>>>>> show
>>>>> what I've done.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the Riblett section, there is more of a curve in the leading
>>>>> edge of
>>>>> the
>>>>> bottom capstrip. I didn't feel comfortable dry fitting my strips
>>>>> into
>>>>> the
>>>>> jig with that much bend, so I am pre-bending the bottom strips
>>>>> similar
>>>>> to
>>>>> what is done for the top strip.
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> ====
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Douwe's progress report |
Hey Dan, thanks for asking...
Well, because of a work deadline, the last two months has been a bit slower
but progress is again moving.
I'm basically doing all the small piddly stuff. I'm just finishing up my
windscreens which I made of brass and were a bit time consuming. Next is
cockpit coaming, hooking up the elevator cables, make flop catch, paint
inspection etc, etc, etc.
I probably won't put the wings on in my studio so that'll will wait until I
get it to the airport. If I can keep up the progress, I'm hoping to be able
to get it to the airfield late Nov or early Dec. I'm really going to try to
get tough and do what I can (taxi testing, glitch identification) during
winter so I'm really ready for spring.
Lowell Frank says he'll come down and do the first hops.
For those of you who havn't followed for the last few years... short
fuselage, Ford, three piece wing, Jenny gear with big wheels.
How'bout you Dan? I assume you're pretty darn close yourself.
Douwe
Message 28
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| Subject: | leading edge .perfect |
exelent idea like old timer perfect builders like bleriot wright bross ets.
keep goin you have a master pise right dere .
--- On Sun, 10/4/09, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: leading edge
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AGene, =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AAs o
thers have already indicated, the=0Afiller strips are at least unnecessary,
and are possibly detrimental.=C2- As for=0Ausing nailing strips to hold
the plywood in place while the glue cures, that is=0Aexactly what I did
=93 a layer of waxed paper over the plywood, then a thin=0Astrip of scra
p spruce with nails driven through the spruce, the plywood and=0Ainto the r
ibs and leading edge.=C2- Once the glue had cured, I peeled off the=0Anai
ling strips and waxed paper and was done.=C2- The small gaps between pane
ls was=0Afilled in with PolyFiber=99s =9CSuperFil=9D and
sanded smooth. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AGood luck, =0A=0A
=C2- =0A=0AJack=0A Phillips =0A=0ANX899JP =0A=0ARaleigh, NC =0A=0A =C2-
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0A owner-pietenpol-list-server@matroni
cs.com [mailto:=0A owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of
Gene Rambo
=0ASent: Friday, October 02, 2009=0A6:37 PM
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: leading=0Aedge =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0AI KNOW this has been=0Adiscussed, but a search of the archives does n
ot turn up an answer to my exact=0Aquestion.=C2- I am ready to install th
e plywood on my leading edge.=C2-=0A(OK, let's get terminology out of the
way here.=C2- The very front piece I am=0Acalling the "nose piece."=C2
- That, together with the plywood on=0Athe top side back to the spar=C2
-forms the "leading edge."=C2- On=0Athe top of the spar between the rib
s are the "filler strips") =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASince
the plans don't=0Aspecify, I made the filler strips 1/2" wide and glued th
em=C2-flush=0Awith=C2-the front face=C2-of the spar (for several reas
ons that I won't go=0Ainto here)=C2- Because they follow the curve of the
top capstrip, they are=0Aabout 3/8" tall at the rear.=C2- OK, the plans
say for the plywood to be=0A9" wide.=C2- Even overlapping the ply over th
e nose piece 1/2", the=0Aply goes about 3/4" beyond the back of the filler
strip.=C2- I don't=0Ahave a problem with that, it probably helps fair the
fabric in, but I was=0Awondering what most of you do.=C2- Do any of you
cut the ply to end at the=0Aback of the filler strip?=C2- Seems like that
would make the edge pretty=0Asharp for the fabric to follow. =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThe next question is=0Athe sequence of gluei
ng it on.=C2- I am planning on using nail strips to hold=0Ait down to the
nose piece.=C2- Just wondering whether to glue/nail to the=0Aspar filler
first and then bend down, or the other way around, or am I worrying=0Atoo
much?? =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAll this being said, I=0A
just found a place in Mass where I bought my 1/16"=C2-okume=0Aplywood.=C2
- The 4x8 sheet was $27, the first two cuts were free.=C2-=0ACutting it
into 9" pieces took 5 cuts, so for around $30 plus shipping, I=0Ahad my le
ading edge material.=C2- Can't think of the name now, but contact me=0Aof
fline and I can give it to anyone who is interested. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2
- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AGene =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2
- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet
enpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Push/Pull on elevator |
It's a pleasure Tom
Peter
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tkreiner
Sent: Monday, 5 October 2009 12:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Push/Pull on elevator
Peter,
You website, and explanations are great. Thanks for adding all the detail
to help all of us newbies.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266375#266375
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: throttle setup; |
tanks for the aidea help alot nex week work in there also stare instal in s
ide all turn bucles soon I think$$$$$$$$$,cables nico pres timbles etc.an m
ake weld stuf for horns and controler thinks tanks for you help, jorge from
hanford
--- On Sun, 10/4/09, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup
et>
Jorge & Oscar,
Corky's second project (now mine) is as Oscar described-- the two throttles
are connected by small diameter steel push-pull tubes, with a Bowden cable
from the front pit to the carb.- The handles are on top.- I plan for a
left glove (leather, no lace, Michael Jackson) to keep 100 mph June bugs a
nd chilling air off my knuckles.- Usually- chilling air is not a major
factor in TX, or Oscar would have fixed that.-
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2009 11:01 AM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup
>
>
>
>Jorge; I think the throttle that is shown in the
>plans is about as simple as you can get.- One thing
>that would be an improvement is to link the front
>and rear throttle levers with a rod or tube, then
>carry a Bowden cable forward to the carb from the
>front throttle.- I've seen pictures of that setup
>on more than one Piet but I don't remember whose
>airplane had it.- The last ones I saw were of a
>really nice, clean, simple cockpit with beautifully
>varnished plywood cockpit; I'm no wood expert but
>it looked like birch ply (blonde color), dark hardwood
>knobs on the throttles.
>
>41CC has the pilot's throttle up near the cockpit
>coaming with the pivot at the bottom; upside-down
>from what the plans show.- I like that setup since
>it gives more room down in the cockpit but when the
>weather is cold, it puts your hand almost out in
>the wind.- I can post a photo of the throttle if you
>are interested.- And the front throttle is just a
>knob attached to the inner wire of the Bowden cable
>with bug nuts to secure it.
>
>PS: "Cold", as defined in Texas, is anything
>below about 80F.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net --- --------
------ --- -
>
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... |
Don, here is Bill See's story of Aurburn, It's getting heated in here ha ha
ha,
Shad
Bill See's story:
#yiv788143615 p {margin:0;}
SHAD, Well the story was a little different actually! I buzzed ahead of the
3 PIETS and went into the rain. I went ahead to verify the rain! Then made
a 90degree turn North to lead the Piets! Talking to Gary Bell I asked hime
where we wanted to go and I buzzed up to AUBURN. Getting close to Auburn,
I was talking to the Gulfstream and he willing agreed to not take off until
the Piets where on the ground. I cicrcled, the Gulfstream took off and I l
anded in trail. Ya need to call the (RAIN MAN) Don Imch JR, and tell him we
are going to take up a collection -for him a little radio with some batt
eries. BUT, maybe not because they would not have seem as much fun!.......L
OL!
GB and BS were just tryin to herd the RAIN MAN and the ANTIQUE GURU to clea
r skies!............LOL!
-
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 4:26:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams...
Bill here is a story from Don Emch about the return from Brodhead
Shad
--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
From: Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams...
While flying home from OSH I was leading our group of four.- The group in
cluded two other Piets, Frank Pavliga and Gary Bell and Bill See in an Aero
nca.- We ran into some rain near Ft. Wayne, Indiana and had to divert to
the north.- I headed toward Auburn, IN.- They have a huge and wide pave
d runway.- While coming down final I looked toward the grass that ran bet
ween the runway and taxiway.- I thought it looked awful inviting.- So b
etween the cross taxiways I came in over some taxi lights and set it down i
n the grass.- As I was rolling along in some beautiful grass wondering wh
y they even had to put the pavement in, I glanced over at the taxiway besid
e me and saw a row of very surprised individuals, including a pilot, all st
aring at me while comfortably seated in a large and gorgeous Gulfstream.-
I waved at them all.- As I rolled up on the taxiway pavement I looked ba
ck to see the other three guys following suit and all landing beside the
taxiway too.- I'm sure it became qui!
te a topic of discussion inside the beautiful Gulfstream, both among the pi
lots and the non pilot passengers, that these little airplanes were missing
the runway!- Sometimes my little airplane makes me smile in many more wa
ys than one!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265975#265975
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... |
Sounds like two good reasons to NOT have a radio:
1) quiet, uninformed bliss
2) plausible deniability
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 2:58 PM
Subject: Fw: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams...
Don, here is Bill See's story of Aurburn, It's getting heated in here ha ha
ha,
Shad
Bill See's story:
SHAD, Well the story was a little different actually! I buzzed ahead of the
3 PIETS and went into the rain. I went ahead to verify the rain! Then made a
90degree turn North to lead the Piets! Talking to Gary Bell I asked hime
where we wanted to go and I buzzed up to AUBURN. Getting close to Auburn, I
was talking to the Gulfstream and he willing agreed to not take off until
the Piets where on the ground. I cicrcled, the Gulfstream took off and I
landed in trail. Ya need to call the (RAIN MAN) Don Imch JR, and tell him we
are going to take up a collection for him a little radio with some
batteries. BUT, maybe not because they would not have seem as much
fun!.......LOL!
GB and BS were just tryin to herd the RAIN MAN and the ANTIQUE GURU to clear
skies!............LOL!
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 4:26:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams...
Bill here is a story from Don Emch about the return from Brodhead
Shad
--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
From: Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams...
<http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=EmchAir@aol.com> >
While flying home from OSH I was leading our group of four. The group
included two other Piets, Frank Pavliga and Gary Bell and Bill See in an
Aeronca. We ran into some rain near Ft. Wayne, Indiana and had to divert to
the north. I headed toward Auburn, IN. They have a huge and wide paved
runway. While coming down final I looked toward the grass that ran between
the runway and taxiway. I thought it looked awful inviting. So between the
cross taxiways I came in over some taxi lights and set it down in the grass.
As I was rolling along in some beautiful grass wondering why they even had
to put the pavement in, I glanced over at the taxiway beside me and saw a
row of very surprised individuals, including a pilot, all staring at me
while comfortably seated in a large and gorgeous Gulfstream. I waved at
them all. As I rolled up on the taxiway pavement I looked back to see the
other three guys following suit and all landing beside the taxiway too. I'm
sure it became qui!
te a topic of discussion inside the beautiful Gulfstream, both among the
pilots and the non pilot passengers, that these little airplanes were
missing the runway! Sometimes my little airplane makes me smile in many
more ways than one!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopsp;
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=265975#265975> -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenbsp;
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> - MATRONICS
WEB FORUMS - &nbs
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... |
Speaking of radios.....A while back, when I was having problems being
understood on the radio because of all the wind noise, someone on this
list suggested I put a 35mm film canister, with a small hole, over the
mike. I'm here to tell you it works great! Thanks to whom ever passed
on that info to me.
Gene
N502R
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: reinforced "end" ribs |
Well, maybe I misunderstood what you wrote.
What I read was you talking about other builders reinforcing the wing tip "incase
of ground loops", and then you said that you were thinking of adding some plywood
to your wingtips (I think). That sounds to me like you're planning to reinforce
your wing tips in preparation for a ground loop.
As for fire protection, I have only one thing to say. THE AIRPLANE IS BUILT OF
WOOD.
Wood burns. But gasoline burns more readily than wood. I would imagine that the
fuel had more to do with the unfortunate circumstance you mentioned than the
fact that it was an open cockpit, or what materials the plane was built of. I
would hazard a guess that those poor people that perished in their crash most
likely were burned by the fuel that spilled, far more that the wooden structure
(if it even was a wooden airframe). Crashing on landing is a possibility with
every flight - but that is a known risk that all pilots take (as is the risk
of a crash with every trip we take in an automobile). Perhaps a more effective
safety feature might be the use of a fuel cell, such as those used in race cars,
which would limit the flow of fuel out of a ruptured fuel tank.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266491#266491
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... |
I have no desire to land up as a hood ornament on some large passenger plan
e because I didn't happen to see him.I like to keep both eyes and ears open
to what's going on.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:
Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASe
nt: Sunday, October 4, 2009 6:10:27 PM=0ASubject: RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: L
anding at Airports with Gulfstreams...=0A=0A=0ASounds like two good reasons
to NOT have a radio:=0A=C2-=0A1)=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- quiet, uninform
ed bliss=0A2)=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- plausible deniability =0A=C2-=0AGar
y Boothe=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail do
ne,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear=0A(15 ribs down)=0ADo not archive
=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-serve
r@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behal
f Of shad bell=0ASent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 2:58 PM=0ATo: Pietenpol Dis
cussion=0ASubject: Fw: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstr
eams...=0A=C2-=0ADon, here is Bill See's story of Aurburn, It's getting h
eated in here ha ha ha,=0AShad=0A=0A=0ABill See's story:=0ASHAD, Well the s
tory was a little different actually! I buzzed ahead of the 3 PIETS and wen
t into the rain. I went ahead to verify the rain! Then made a 90degree turn
North to lead the Piets! Talking to Gary Bell I asked hime where we wanted
to go and I buzzed up to AUBURN . Getting close to Auburn , I was talking
to the Gulfstream and he willing agreed to not take off until the Piets whe
re on the ground. I cicrcled, the Gulfstream took off and I landed in trail
. Ya need to call the (RAIN MAN) Don Imch JR, and tell him we are going to
take up a collection =C2-for him a little radio with some batteries. BUT,
maybe not because they would not have seem as much fun!.......LOL!=0A>GB a
nd BS were just tryin to herd the RAIN MAN and the ANTIQUE GURU to clear sk
ies!............LOL!=0A>=C2-=0A>=0A>----- Original Message -----=0A>From:
"shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>=0A>To: "Bill See" <wbdj@embarqmail.com
>=0A>Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 4:26:19 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
=0A>Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams...=0A
>Bill here is a story from Don Emch about the return from Brodhead=0A>Shad
=0A>=0A>--- On Thu, 10/1/09, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>>From
: Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com>=0A>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airpor
ts with Gulfstreams...=0A>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A>>Date: Thurs
on Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>=0A>>=0A>>While flying home from OSH I was leadin
g our group of four.=C2- The group included two other Piets, Frank Pavlig
a and Gary Bell and Bill See in an Aeronca.=C2- We ran into some rain nea
r Ft. Wayne , Indiana and had to divert to the north.=C2- I headed toward
Auburn , IN. =C2- They have a huge and wide paved runway.=C2- While co
ming down final I looked toward the grass that ran between the runway and t
axiway.=C2- I thought it looked awful inviting.=C2- So between the cros
s taxiways I came in over some taxi lights and set it down in the grass.=C2
- As I was rolling along in some beautiful grass wondering why they even
had to put the pavement in, I glanced over at the taxiway beside me and saw
a row of very surprised individuals, including a pilot, all staring at me
while comfortably seated in a large and gorgeous Gulfstream.=C2- I waved
at them all.=C2- As I rolled up on the taxiway pavement I looked back to
see the other three guys following suit and all landing beside the
taxiway too.=C2- I'm sure it became qui!=0A>>te a topic of discussion in
side the beautiful Gulfstream, both among the pilots and the non pilot pass
engers, that these little airplanes were missing the runway!=C2- Sometime
s my little airplane makes me smile in many more ways than one!=0A>>=0A>>Do
n Emch=0A>>NX899DE=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Read this topic online here:=0A>
>=0A>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopsp;=C2---> http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Pietenbsp; =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-- MA
TRONICS WEB FORUMS - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- &nbs =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=C2- =0A=C2-=0A
=C2-=0A =C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp
://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A =C2-
===================
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... |
Well Shad, that's a pretty good story! They don't call Bill by his initials for
nothing! B. S. Ha! The visibility wasn't the best. I was leading for a while
then I think he did pull ahead and give the rain a test. Sure enough it
was rain! Now that I think of it he did lead us up there to Auburn. I was the
first to land. He must have waited until the Gulfstream took off. Anyway the
looks on their faces was priceless!
By the way, I have a ton of respect for Bill See. He's a great guy with lots of
flying wisdom. It's a real treat to hang out with him! As a matter of fact
even though it seemed to take forever to get home, that trip out of OSH with
you and that whole gang was the highlight of my summer of flying. Loads of fun!
Thanks Shad!
On a totally different note... I'd love to fly out to the islands next Spring and
camp out for the weekend. Wouldn't it be cool if we could do a little Piet
gathering up at Wakeman or somewhere up that way and fly out there together.
Maybe we could get Mike C. and Frank P. and possibly Skip G. and all go out there
together.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266503#266503
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 Leading Edge |
That's never a good place for anyone
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 Leading Edge
>>>my ex-wife cut the work bench in half<<<
No offense, but the best place for some people is floating face-down in a lake.
Do not archive.
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes I went through a divorce and ended up in an apartment, my ex-wife cut
> the work bench
> in half I also loss my job, now I have a work bench, a joband garage again,
> the ribs come down
> from the my mom's attic and I am now starting again exactly where I left
> off.
>
> Russell
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> When I originally drew out the section (using DesignCAD) at the front spar
>> location it measured a little over 5 1/4" tall between the capstrips. So my
>> block just takes up that extra 1/2" or so.
>>
>> For the leading edge, if I can't find a hand rail that looks right I
>> figured I use the classical method. I'll rib a couple angled cuts from
>> appropriately sized strips of pine, fir, hemlock or whatever I can find,
>> then hand plane them to rounded sections. Making those long curled shavings
>> sounds like it might be kind of satisfying. I enjoy working with hand tools
>> when it's appropriate - planing, OK; making those long angled rip cuts, time
>> for power tools.
>>
>> --Ken
>>
>> Dave and Connie wrote:
>>>
>>> <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
>>>
>>> Ken,
>>>
>>> I figured that the original size spars would work with blocks.
>>>
>>> What are you planning to do for the leading edge? It looks like it would
>>> be a little tall for Mike Cuy's banister stock.
>>>
>>> Cave
>>>
>>>
>>> Ken Howe wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am building my 612 ribs to use the standard 4 3/4" tall spars. The
>>>> rear
>>>> spar fits in just right, with a little space for a wedge to be inserted
>>>> between the top of the spar and the rib. The front of the rib is, as you
>>>> note, quite a bit taller where the front spar goes. I've designed my
>>>> truss
>>>> to insert a small block under the spar so that the space betwen the
>>>> block
>>>> and the top capstrip is 4 3/4". I'd posted a few pictures a month or 2
>>>> back
>>>> to the list so you might find them in the archives. I don't have any of
>>>> my
>>>> pictures here at work, so I've whipped out a quick and dirty sketch to
>>>> show
>>>> what I've done.
>>>>
>>>> On the Riblett section, there is more of a curve in the leading edge of
>>>> the
>>>> bottom capstrip. I didn't feel comfortable dry fitting my strips into
>>>> the
>>>> jig with that much bend, so I am pre-bending the bottom strips similar
>>>> to
>>>> what is done for the top strip.
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> ====
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: reinforced "end" ribs |
William Wynn's crash and burn and after the fact analysis
should be required reading for all of us.
The plane and passengers would have been OK except
that the routing of the fuel line caused it to shear off when
the wing slammed forward.
http://flycorvair.com/wynne.html
A few pics down you can see that the line comes straight
out of the tank and down the cabane. It should have had
a stress relieving, 360 spiral at the tank exit.
Clif
>
> As for fire protection, I have only one thing to say. THE AIRPLANE IS
> BUILT OF WOOD.
Perhaps a more effective safety feature might be the use of a fuel cell,
such as those used in race cars, which would limit the flow of fuel out of a
ruptured fuel tank.
>
> Bill C.
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: reinforced "end" ribs |
Exactly that why I've already installed a No smoking sign
next to the experimental placard?
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Well, maybe I misunderstood what you wrote.
> What I read was you talking about other builders reinforcing the wing tip
> "incase of ground loops", and then you said that you were thinking of adding
> some plywood to your wingtips (I think). That sounds to me like you're
> planning to reinforce your wing tips in preparation for a ground loop.
>
> As for fire protection, I have only one thing to say. THE AIRPLANE IS BUILT
> OF WOOD.
> Wood burns. But gasoline burns more readily than wood. I would imagine that
> the fuel had more to do with the unfortunate circumstance you mentioned than
> the fact that it was an open cockpit, or what materials the plane was built
> of. I would hazard a guess that those poor people that perished in their
> crash most likely were burned by the fuel that spilled, far more that the
> wooden structure (if it even was a wooden airframe). Crashing on landing is
> a possibility with every flight - but that is a known risk that all pilots
> take (as is the risk of a crash with every trip we take in an automobile).
> Perhaps a more effective safety feature might be the use of a fuel cell,
> such as those used in race cars, which would limit the flow of fuel out of a
> ruptured fuel tank.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266491#266491
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar-- the right plywoods |
The Jodel plans that are now for sale in English do not recommend
Okume in the box spar structure, they are from Frank Rogers in
Australia there is also an okume to birch conversion table on the jodel
Web site,
But then again they build canoes and kayaks out of the stuff
all the time of course they usually have a layer of glass on them.
Russell
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Tim Willis wrote:
>
>> You have to really LOOK for marine/aero plywood, even at specialty lumber
>> sources.
>>
> Happily, I live on the east coast of Florida. Marine plywood, okoume or
> otherwise, is pretty easy to find. Marine okoume is what I meant, of course.
>
> It has a long history in airplanes. A lot of French homebuilts have used
> it, including the older Jodels. The One Design still calls for it, though it
> appears to be limited to the wing skin; the spar is laminated from Doug fir
> or spruce.
>
> Complaints I've seen say that it is dimensionally unstable, susceptible to
> rot and fatigue (?), and may not meet any particular standard, so that some
> sheets might have areas of bad grain runout overlapping in all the plies.
> That last should not be a problem in anything that meets BS1088. I would
> tend to trust Bruynzeel, which I believe does.
>
> The "close enough for government work" analysis seems to be that its
> strength characteristics are like those of mahogany ply.
>
> In 2004, Shelman (found through the Wayback Machine at
> http://web.archive.org/web/20031014012429/http://shelmanusa.com/SpecShelmarine.cfm)
> listed the following properties for its Shelmarine okoume plywood:
>
> Density: 420-520 kg/M3
>
> Property lb/in2
>
> Ultimate tensile strength 4350
> Ultimate bending strength 5800
> Ultimate shearing strength
> following thickness direction 435
> parallel to the veneer plies 1160
> Modulus of elasticity 580K
> Bending/tension permissable load 1885
>
> More than anyone probably wanted to know....
>
> I bought 1.5mm okume marine ply for leading edge from Boulter Plywood in
>> greater Boston, MA.
>>
> The perfect material for the purpose, IMHO. And Boulter's price is right,
> or was the last time I looked.
>
>
> Owen
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: reinforced "end" ribs |
I know the plane is wood thats my main point is I don't
want to set it on fire if I can help it. Of course I have
a friend that buit a flying flea, NOW I know I'm going to
tick off some body thats got a flying flea, but anyway
after flying it one time he took the engine and instruments
off and set it on fire,
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> William Wynn's crash and burn and after the fact analysis
> should be required reading for all of us.
>
> The plane and passengers would have been OK except
> that the routing of the fuel line caused it to shear off when
> the wing slammed forward.
>
> http://flycorvair.com/wynne.html
>
> A few pics down you can see that the line comes straight
> out of the tank and down the cabane. It should have had
> a stress relieving, 360=B0 spiral at the tank exit.
>
> Clif
>
>>
>> As for fire protection, I have only one thing to say. THE AIRPLANE IS
>> BUILT OF WOOD.
>>
> Perhaps a more effective safety feature might be the use of a fuel cell,
> such as those used in race cars, which would limit the flow of fuel out o
f a
> ruptured fuel tank.
>
>>
>> Bill C.
>>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: reinforced "end" ribs |
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know the plane is wood thats my main point is I don't
> want to set it on fire if I can help it. Of course I have
> a friend that buit a flying flea, NOW I know I'm going to
> tick off some body thats got a flying flea, but anyway
> after flying it one time he took the engine and instruments
> off and set it on fire,
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>wrote
:
>
>
>>
>> William Wynn's crash and burn and after the fact analysis
>> should be required reading for all of us.
>>
>> The plane and passengers would have been OK except
>> that the routing of the fuel line caused it to shear off when
>> the wing slammed forward.
>>
>> http://flycorvair.com/wynne.html
>>
>> A few pics down you can see that the line comes straight
>> out of the tank and down the cabane. It should have had
>> a stress relieving, 360=B0 spiral at the tank exit.
>>
>> Clif
>>
>>>
>>> As for fire protection, I have only one thing to say. THE AIRPLANE IS
>>> BUILT OF WOOD.
>>>
>> Perhaps a more effective safety feature might be the use of a fuel cell,
>> such as those used in race cars, which would limit the flow of fuel out
of a
>> ruptured fuel tank.
>>
>>>
>>> Bill C.
>>>
>>
>>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | my project tribute (long) |
Ok=2C this is not a question - more of a personal story I guess.
I started my Piet in 2001 with the purchase of plans and 4 rough sawn spruc
e boards from McCormicks in Madison. At first I went at it pretty steadily
=2C building most of the fuselage in about a year. My wife and I had been
married for quite a few years already and hadn't had any kids - nor were th
ey really in our imediate future.
We moved homes in 2003 and my project got stored at my in-laws place for th
e winter. The only thing I had completed at the new home was the turtledec
k - which to this day=2C I'm not happy with. Problem was=2C I couldn't get
it into the basement at the new house and the garage wasn't heated. Once
it's at some other place than home=2C it's hard to motivate yourself to go
work on it. So it sat there for a couple years. I did complete the tail s
ection. And in 2005-06 I built the wing ribs and tore down a couple corvai
r motors. Most of the corvair parts are here now=2C ready to be assembled.
My first boy was born in 2006. We had 4 miscarriages up until this point a
nd figured we'd never have children. Actually=2C we were in the process of
adopting. Since then=2C the project has done nothing but collect dust. I
t's hard to find time (and money) once you have young children around.
Well=2C it's 2009 and I'm finally getting back to work on it again. I boug
ht some material for wing spars and have been prepping to make the center s
ection. Last year my father in law had a heart attack and through the trea
tments for it=2C found out he had a rare form of cancer. He lived with us
for 3 months because he needed contant care and his wife worked nights. I
can't say enough about how my wife stepped up and took care of him. This i
s what they mean in the bible when they say "Honor your father and mother".
It's been a rough year or so with a roller coaster of emotions=2C hospita
l and nursing home visits. He's currently recovering from hip surgery due
to his hip deteriorating - due to the cancer.
A couple months ago=2C I found out my wife was pregnant again - this was a
huge surprise (blessing) since we were pretty much sure we didn't want anot
her child at this point. Hmm=2C how'd that happen=3B). Three weeks ago=2C
I was put on part time work - just escaping a round of layoffs. The econo
my finally caught up to me. Then just two weeks ago=2C my mother found out
she has pancreatic cancer. Statistics say she'll be dead within a year.
Why am I saying all of this? Not to show anyone that my life is worse or b
uisier than others. It's because of what I've been doing since I started b
uilding my wing ribs a couple years ago. I asked family members and friend
s to build one rib=2C sign and date it. Only a few of them did it=2C inclu
ding my wife=2C my dad=2C mother and father in-law. So I built most of the
m. But at that point=2C I wanted this airplane to mean something to others
- not just me. I recently asked my father in law to think about the N-num
ber and how he'd like to see it - someting that would mean something to him
. He was a garbage man all his life and he loved it - so=2C someday=2C I'l
l have something about that on the airplane - N-number or otherwise. I've
recently asked my mom to help me build the center section to which she agre
ed. It's my way of creating memories with these poeple - hopefully somethi
ng they'll remember too.
Anyway=2C my project is on the slow track for sure=2C but I'm ok with that.
If it wasn't for all the other things in life=2C maybe it would be furthe
r along but hey=2C life happens to all of us. Someday=2C I hope to finish
this thing and fly it=2C commemorating all the people and efforts that have
gone into it along the way. Until then=2C I'll just keep on building at s
ome pace - slow at times=2C fast at times..
If you're project isn't progressing as fast as you want or maybe you've los
t interest=2C do something to make it special - and take your time. It's n
ot a race. Life happens.
Sorry for the rant=2C just feelin nostalgic tonight I guess.
Tom B.
Brooklyn Park=2C MN
creating memories with my mom - working on the center section
Message 44
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| Subject: | Vertical intercostals in ribs |
Pietenpol plans show no verical intercostals anterior and posterior to the
two spars. Every other rib I have seen shows the anterior and posterior v
ertical intercostals immediately adjacent to the spars. Your thoughts appr
eciated. Steve =0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: my project tribute (long) |
Tom,
Thank you for putting so much into proper perspective. Hats off to you.
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 9:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: my project tribute (long)
Ok, this is not a question - more of a personal story I guess.
[personal essay snipped for brevity]
Sorry for the rant, just feelin nostalgic tonight I guess.
Tom B.
Brooklyn Park, MN
creating memories with my mom - working on the center section
[snip]
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Riblett 612 Leading Edge |
Unless they've got a snorkel, mask and fins.
Just to make this relevant--Got my tank halves resined
together today. It weighs 13 lb with valve, fittings and
fuel gauge.
Clif
>
> That's never a good place for anyone
> John
>
> No offense, but the best place for some people is floating face-down in a
> lake.
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | one/three piece wing |
Hey guys,
Appreciate the response on the wing dilemma. Just to answer a few questions
; space is not a problem. I fortunately have an old WW II hanger for a work
shop (in the back) so I've got plenty of room. I work nights at the airpor
t-and I work on the Piet at night at work. Just a perk of-flying medeva
c-at night with your base next to the hanger.
So I guess I'm a night owl.
It appears that most choose the three piece wing due to space issues but I
didn't know if there were some other advantages besides the fact that you c
an trailer it easier. I'm planning on the one piece wing unless someone can
convince me otherwise. Of course, when I get to the spar scarf issues, I m
ay change my mind.
-
Anyhoo, thanks for the input.
Looking forward to the endeavor!
-
Dallas=0A=0A=0A
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