Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:22 AM - Poplar (Doug Dever)
2. 03:02 AM - Re: Poplar (Owen Davies)
3. 04:15 AM - Re: Poplar (vman1922)
4. 04:25 AM - Re: my project tribute (long) (vman1922)
5. 05:08 AM - Re: my project tribute (long) (helspersew@aol.com)
6. 05:14 AM - Re: Poplar (Gary Boothe)
7. 05:51 AM - Re: Poplar (Ryan Mueller)
8. 05:52 AM - shipping & handling charges (TGSTONE236@aol.com)
9. 06:48 AM - A 65 starter (Skip Gadd)
10. 06:49 AM - Re: shipping & handling charges (Michael Perez)
11. 06:50 AM - Re: shipping & handling charges ()
12. 07:17 AM - Re: shipping & handling charges (Gary Boothe)
13. 07:22 AM - Re: Poplar (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
14. 07:23 AM - 3-piece wing fairings (Gary Boothe)
15. 07:50 AM - Re: Poplar (Gary Boothe)
16. 07:50 AM - Re: my project tribute (long) (Tim Willis)
17. 08:04 AM - Re: throttle setup; (Tim Willis)
18. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: reinforced "end" ribs (Ross Alexander)
19. 08:07 AM - Re: 5 minutes (Dan Yocum)
20. 09:10 AM - Re: using brakes (Ross Alexander)
21. 09:15 AM - Re: centersection flop (Ross Alexander)
22. 09:19 AM - Re: one/three piece wing (Dave Aldrich)
23. 09:20 AM - Re: one/three piece wing (Dick N.)
24. 09:49 AM - Push/pull linkage size/type (Michael Perez)
25. 10:21 AM - Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford (Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov)
26. 10:41 AM - Re: Poplar (Ameet Savant)
27. 10:45 AM - Re: Poplar (Owen Davies)
28. 11:11 AM - Re: Push/pull linkage size/type (Gary Boothe)
29. 11:11 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Bill Church)
30. 11:12 AM - Re: Poplar (Ameet Savant)
31. 11:22 AM - Re: Poplar (Ameet Savant)
32. 11:29 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Gary Boothe)
33. 12:04 PM - Re: Poplar (Ryan Mueller)
34. 12:13 PM - Re: Poplar (Doug Dever)
35. 12:24 PM - Re: Poplar (Doug Dever)
36. 12:32 PM - CABLE TENSION? (TOPGUN)
37. 12:44 PM - Piets near Livermore CA? (Jim Markle)
38. 12:44 PM - Re: Poplar (Doug Dever)
39. 12:46 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Doug Dever)
40. 12:47 PM - Re: Push/pull linkage size/type (Michael Perez)
41. 01:18 PM - Re: Piets near my travels (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
42. 01:28 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Owen Davies)
43. 01:58 PM - Re: Piets near Livermore CA? (Gary Boothe)
44. 02:13 PM - Re: Piets near my travels (Gary Boothe)
45. 02:14 PM - Good stuff.... (Jim Markle)
46. 02:15 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Bill Church)
47. 02:17 PM - Re: Piets near my travels (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
48. 02:50 PM - Re: Poplar (Bill Church)
49. 03:24 PM - Re: shipping & handling charges (Peter W Johnson)
50. 03:39 PM - Re: Poplar (Doug Dever)
51. 05:06 PM - Re: Plywood web spar (John Fay)
52. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (Ross Alexander)
53. 05:49 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Javier Cruz)
54. 05:57 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Jim Markle)
55. 06:30 PM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (Dick N.)
56. 06:39 PM - Re: Good stuff.... (Dan Yocum)
57. 06:39 PM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (Dan Yocum)
58. 06:51 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Javier Cruz)
59. 06:54 PM - Watch Drilling Holes in Plexiglas (Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov)
60. 06:58 PM - Re: Good stuff.... (Jack Phillips)
61. 07:34 PM - Re: Poplar (Robert Ray)
62. 07:36 PM - Re: Poplar (Robert Ray)
63. 08:04 PM - translating Jorge's post- #1 (Oscar Zuniga)
64. 08:08 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Clif Dawson)
65. 08:12 PM - Don Emch-- brilliant---- throttle setup (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
66. 08:47 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Jim Markle)
67. 09:11 PM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (K5YAC)
68. 09:17 PM - Re: Watch Drilling Holes in Plexiglas (K5YAC)
69. 09:28 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Gary Boothe)
70. 09:45 PM - Re: 5 minutes (jorge lizarraga)
71. 10:09 PM - Re: Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford (K5YAC)
72. 11:13 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Clif Dawson)
73. 11:47 PM - Re: Re: Poplar (Robert Ray)
Message 1
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Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that Y
ellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find i
t in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states tha
t it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and sh
ock resistance. I know it's properties are similar=2C but If who ever said
this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Do
ug Fir is Impossible to get locally=2C but I found a source locally for for
beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all=2C it's a tulip tree. Go fig
ure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some support
ing documentation.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.=0A
Message 2
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Doug Dever wrote:
> Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated
> that Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I
> could find it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13
> which states that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly
> lower strength and shock resistance. I know it's properties are
> similar, but If who ever said this could speak up and let me know the
> source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug Fir is Impossible to get locally,
> but I found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn't a
> poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go figure) I'd feel a lot more
> comfortable using it if I could find some supporting documentation.
Forest Products Laboratory ought to have the data. Their website has a
search engine. I'd plug "yellow poplar" and "strength" into it and see
what comes up.
Owen
Message 3
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I see that Piper listed it as a substitute for the Cub- among other woods.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266543#266543
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: my project tribute (long) |
Thanks for the post! My hat is also off. That a way to make positives out of
troubles. May God Bless and ease your family's burdens.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266546#266546
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: my project tribute (long) |
Tom,
Thank you for that post. Your perspective is the one we all should have. Providence
has arranged for most of us?to be more fortunate, and I hope we can all stop
today to reflect on that fact. The day I see your Piet fly will be very sweet
indeed. Keep going.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
.?
Message 6
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Doug,
Here's a page out of 43.13. It shows that Poplar is not a 'direct'
replacement, but very close. My airframe is all Poplar, Hickory struts, fir
spars.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that
Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find
it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states
that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and
shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever said
this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug
Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for
beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go figure)
I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some supporting
documentation.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
_____
Hotmail: PowerfuL/go/171222986/direct/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
Message 7
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As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar:
'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct substitute for
spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength
properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing satisfactory."
The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is:
"Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and shear."
They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet.
You can also go to Chris Tracy's excellent site:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm, and download ANC-18, where
you can find tables with comparative strength data between different types
of wood. Around pages 21/22 you can find the info for sitka spruce and
yellow poplar; skim the whole document, I'm sure there's even more. That's
just what a quick few minutes of looking turned up. Anywho, this chart shows
that yellow poplar is indeed weaker than spruce in almost every category, in
some characteristics more than others. Not tremendously weaker, but weaker
nonetheless.
Others are building with it.....maybe someone can speak to whether or not
anyone has flown it (Gary could, if he'd hurry up with those ribs). I
personally would want to 'carefully account' for any possible loss of
strength before using it, but then I also wouldn't want to spend the time
trying to 'carefully account' for it's slightly reduced strength properties.
I'd rather just build. You only live about 500 miles from Wicks, and even if
you bite the bullet and just build entirely with spruce it's still not going
to be the largest expense in this whole process of building the airplane.
Unless, that is, you come back in 6 mos to a year and ask if a 2.0L Dodge
Neon engine with a chain redrive will be a suitable powerplant (cheaper than
an A65), or whether we can find where someone said it's fine to use
bedsheets to cover the airplane (the touch, the feel of cotton, the fabric
of your Pietenpol?). Or if you coat the entire airframe in Raka epoxy filled
with silica (just kidding). Then the spruce may have turned out to be your
largest expense. Good luck in whatever you choose to build with! Now I'm
late for work... :P
Have a good morning all,
Ryan
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:15 AM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that
> Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find
> it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states
> that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and
> shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever said
> this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug
> Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for
> beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go
> figure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some
> supporting documentation.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
Message 8
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Subject: | shipping & handling charges |
Are most of you keeping tabs on your shipping and handling charges? I must
be ordering too much or too often.
To date I have over $850.00 in charges and still don't how much more I'll
spend. I can tell you now mine will not be the cheapest built Piet on the
list.
I have all the big ticket items,ceconite, paint, struts,forks, wings
done(not covered), "C" section done (covered)with fuel tank, corvair engine on
stand awaiting WW parts to finish, fuselage on straight axle with spoke
wheels and PF Beck's copied brake system.
It looks like the shipping and handling cost are going to run at least 10%
of the building cost.Some of these cost are my on doings as I don't wait to
let a large need list build up as I want to finish the project I am on at
the time and not jump from project to project.
Just curious as to how you handle your Piet building and parts buying.
Ted Stone
Corvair Piet
Wilmington,NC
Message 9
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Has anyone seen or have an opinion on Bill Rewey's Sky-Tech/Lycoming ring
gear starter. He has an ad for drawings and photos in the current BPA
Newsletter.
Skip
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Subject: | Re: shipping & handling charges |
I have chosen to buy a little at a time from where ever has the best prices
.. Since my purchases have been mostly wood, I have bought local, bulk from
Public Lumber and some from Aircraft Spruce. I buy ahead of time so that th
e project moves and I am not waiting for wood.- It would be nice to get a
complete wood list together and place one massive order with one shipping
charge, but that just would not work because I buy from various sources and
I use various woods, (birtch and Okume ply for example.) and I am not alwa
ys sure where and what I will be using until I get to that part of the buil
d.
-
So, I buy when I can with the money I have and go. I try not to get too ben
t about paying multiple shipping charges for multiple shipments because tha
t is the only way I can do it now.- Plus, the family does not feel neglec
ted as we can still go to Cedar Point, out to eat, etc. along the way.
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: shipping & handling charges |
I don't keep track of the cost of any of it. It's just to depressing
but 10% doesn't sound too bad. On the bright side, usually on shipped
orders they are from out of state so you don't have to pay sales tax.
I, living in the great state of California and only 450 miles from
Aircraft Spruce, get he honor of paying shipping and 7.75% sales tax. Oh
the joy!
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: TGSTONE236@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping & handling charges
Are most of you keeping tabs on your shipping and handling charges? I
must be ordering too much or too often.
To date I have over $850.00 in charges and still don't how much more
I'll spend. I can tell you now mine will not be the cheapest built Piet
on the list.
I have all the big ticket items,ceconite, paint, struts,forks, wings
done(not covered), "C" section done (covered)with fuel tank, corvair
engine on stand awaiting WW parts to finish, fuselage on straight axle
with spoke wheels and PF Beck's copied brake system.
It looks like the shipping and handling cost are going to run at least
10% of the building cost.Some of these cost are my on doings as I don't
wait to let a large need list build up as I want to finish the project I
am on at the time and not jump from project to project.
Just curious as to how you handle your Piet building and parts buying.
Ted Stone
Corvair Piet
Wilmington,NC
Message 12
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Subject: | shipping & handling charges |
Ted,
I did not keep track of my shipping expenses on the engine parts, but the
fuselage is pretty much put together, tail surfaces and center section. I
have wing spars and enough wood to build all the ribs..and I'm sitting at
about 7% for Shipping & Handling. Note that I bought almost all my wood
locally.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TGSTONE236@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping & handling charges
Are most of you keeping tabs on your shipping and handling charges? I must
be ordering too much or too often.
To date I have over $850.00 in charges and still don't how much more I'll
spend. I can tell you now mine will not be the cheapest built Piet on the
list.
I have all the big ticket items,ceconite, paint, struts,forks, wings
done(not covered), "C" section done (covered)with fuel tank, corvair engine
on stand awaiting WW parts to finish, fuselage on straight axle with spoke
wheels and PF Beck's copied brake system.
It looks like the shipping and handling cost are going to run at least 10%
of the building cost.Some of these cost are my on doings as I don't wait to
let a large need list build up as I want to finish the project I am on at
the time and not jump from project to project.
Just curious as to how you handle your Piet building and parts buying.
Ted Stone
Corvair Piet
Wilmington,NC
Message 13
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Gary=2C
I'm interested in your struts - do you have a photo? Are these the lift st
ruts=2C cabanes=2C??? I plan on making mine of spruce with a ply core (lif
t=2C cabanes=2C etc).
Thanks=2C
Tom B.
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
Doug=2C
Here=92s a page out of 43.13. It shows
that Poplar is not a =91direct=92 replacement=2C but very close. My airfram
e
is all Poplar=2C Hickory struts=2C fir spars.
Gary Boothe
Cool=2C Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion=2C
mounted
Tail
done=2C Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down=85)
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Monday=2C October 05=2C 2009
2:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
Someone stated recently that they
read somewhere that the FAA stated that Yellow Poplar was a direct replacem
ent
for Spruce. Darned if I could find it in the archives. The only
source I can find is AC 43.13 which states that it is not a direct replacem
ent
due to it's slightly lower strength and shock resistance. I know it's
properties are similar=2C but If who ever said this could speak up and let
me
know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug Fir is Impossible to get
locally=2C but I found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn
't a
poplar at all=2C it's a tulip tree. Go figure) I'd feel a lot more
comfortable using it if I could find some supporting documentation.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Hotmail: PowerfuL/go/171222986/direct/01/'
target='_new'>Get it now.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 14
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Subject: | 3-piece wing fairings |
All,
I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback.it may have been lost in
the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a good
way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are
Tinnermans the only best way to go?
Gary
Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing
like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you attaching the
aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16" x 2" plywood, which will keep
the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide an attach for the fairing.
But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Message 15
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Tom,
Here are a few pics. Mine are simply laminated Hickory with no other frills.
I can take some other close-ups if you want. The lift struts will also be
Hickory, but I won't make them until the wings are done and I can get some
actual measurements for length. I like the attachments that Douwe shows in
the attachment.
I know others have used spruce and combination with core materials - you
should be fine.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
Gary,
I'm interested in your struts - do you have a photo? Are these the lift
struts, cabanes,??? I plan on making mine of spruce with a ply core (lift,
cabanes, etc).
Thanks,
Tom B.
_____
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
Doug,
Here's a page out of 43.13. It shows that Poplar is not a 'direct'
replacement, but very close. My airframe is all Poplar, Hickory struts, fir
spars.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that
Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find
it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states
that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and
shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever said
this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug
Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for
beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go figure)
I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some supporting
documentation.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
_____
Hotmail: PowerfuL/go/171222986/direct/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: my project tribute (long) |
Tom,
Thanks for sharing your story. I am sure we are al sorry your path has been so
rough. It is obvious, however, that your attitude and your steps to include
your family in the project will help you all make it through these trying times
as well as possible.
Attitude, faith, and guts are what help us keep getting up after being knocked
down. It sounds like youi and your family have it all. The center section is
large enough for a BIG signature by your mom.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
Sent: Oct 4, 2009 11:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: my project tribute (long)
Ok, this is not a question - more of a personal story I guess.
I started my Piet in 2001 with the purchase of plans and 4 rough sawn spruce boards
from McCormicks in Madison. At first I went at it pretty steadily, building
most of the fuselage in about a year. My wife and I had been married for
quite a few years already and hadn't had any kids - nor were they really in our
imediate future.
We moved homes in 2003 and my project got stored at my in-laws place for the winter.
The only thing I had completed at the new home was the turtledeck - which
to this day, I'm not happy with. Problem was, I couldn't get it into the basement
at the new house and the garage wasn't heated. Once it's at some other
place than home, it's hard to motivate yourself to go work on it. So it sat
there for a couple years. I did complete the tail section. And in 2005-06 I
built the wing ribs and tore down a couple corvair motors. Most of the corvair
parts are here now, ready to be assembled.
My first boy was born in 2006. We had 4 miscarriages up until this point and figured
we'd never have children. Actually, we were in the process of adopting.
Since then, the project has done nothing but collect dust. It's hard to find
time (and money) once you have young children around.
Well, it's 2009 and I'm finally getting back to work on it again. I bought some
material for wing spars and have been prepping to make the center section.
Last year my father in law had a heart attack and through the treatments for it,
found out he had a rare form of cancer. He lived with us for 3 months because
he needed contant care and his wife worked nights. I can't say enough about
how my wife stepped up and took care of him. This is what they mean in the
bible when they say "Honor your father and mother". It's been a rough year or
so with a roller coaster of emotions, hospital and nursing home visits. He's
currently recovering from hip surgery due to his hip deteriorating - due to
the cancer.
A couple months ago, I found out my wife was pregnant again - this was a huge surprise
(blessing) since we were pretty much sure we didn't want another child
at this point. Hmm, how'd that happen;). Three weeks ago, I was put on part
time work - just escaping a round of layoffs. The economy finally caught up
to me. Then just two weeks ago, my mother found out she has pancreatic cancer.
Statistics say she'll be dead within a year.
Why am I saying all of this? Not to show anyone that my life is worse or buisier
than others. It's because of what I've been doing since I started building
my wing ribs a couple years ago. I asked family members and friends to build
one rib, sign and date it. Only a few of them did it, including my wife, my
dad, mother and father in-law. So I built most of them. But at that point, I
wanted this airplane to mean something to others - not just me. I recently asked
my father in law to think about the N-number and how he'd like to see it
- someting that would mean something to him. He was a garbage man all his life
and he loved it - so, someday, I'll have something about that on the airplane
- N-number or otherwise. I've recently asked my mom to help me build the center
section to which she agreed. It's my way of creating memories with these
poeple - hopefully something they'll remember too.
Anyway, my project is on the slow track for sure, but I'm ok with that. If it
wasn't for all the other things in life, maybe it would be further along but hey,
life happens to all of us. Someday, I hope to finish this thing and fly it,
commemorating all the people and efforts that have gone into it along the way.
Until then, I'll just keep on building at some pace - slow at times, fast
at times..
If you're project isn't progressing as fast as you want or maybe you've lost interest,
do something to make it special - and take your time. It's not a race.
Life happens.
Sorry for the rant, just feelin nostalgic tonight I guess.
Tom B.
Brooklyn Park, MN
creating memories with my mom - working on the center section
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: throttle setup; |
Jorge,
You are welcome. Keep up the good work.
Tim in central Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: jorge lizarraga
Sent: Oct 4, 2009 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup;
tanks for the aidea help alot nex week work in there also stare instal in side
all turn bucles soon I think$$$$$$$$$,cables nico pres timbles etc.an make weld
stuf for horns and controler thinks tanks for you help, jorge from hanford
--- On Sun, 10/4/09, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup
Jorge & Oscar,
Corky's second project (now mine) is as Oscar described-- the two throttles are
connected by small diameter steel push-pull tubes, with a Bowden cable from the
front pit to the carb. The handles are on top. I plan for a left glove (leather,
no lace, Michael Jackson) to keep 100 mph June bugs and chilling air off
my knuckles. Usually chilling air is not a major factor in TX, or Oscar would
have fixed that.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2009 11:01 AM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup
>
>
>
>Jorge; I think the throttle that is shown in the
>plans is about as simple as you can get. One thing
>that would be an improvement is to link the front
>and rear throttle levers with a rod or tube, then
>carry a Bowden cable forward to the carb from the
>front throttle. I've seen pictures of that setup
>on more than one Piet but I don't remember whose
>airplane had it. The last ones I saw were of a
>really nice, clean, simple cockpit with beautifully
>varnished plywood cockpit; I'm no wood expert but
>it looked like birch ply (blonde color), dark hardwood
>knobs on the throttles.
>
>41CC has the pilot's throttle up near the cockpit
>coaming with the pivot at the bottom; upside-down
>from what the plans show. I like that setup since
>it gives more room down in the cockpit but when the
>weather is cold, it puts your hand almost out in
>the wind. I can post a photo of the throttle if you
>are interested. And the front throttle is just a
>knob attached to the inner wire of the Bowden cable
>with bug nuts to secure it.
>
>PS: "Cold", as defined in Texas, is anything
>below about 80F.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.mat/forums.matronics.com" bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<BR==========
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: reinforced "end" ribs |
an excellent on carb ice! A must read for everyone! Thanks for a great safety article
for all.
Ross in Orangeville, Canada
__________________________________________________________________
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Message 19
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Hi Oscar,
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>> what can you hear that suggests that there's
>> ice forming?
>
> [In the video, rolling to the centerline for takeoff,
> pilot advances the throttle, engine hesitates, and
> someone says] "carb heat!"
I finally watched the video without the constant din of children in the
background. I remember that, now. I was going through my checklist for
take off and verbalized "carb heat, off" and Steve repeated it. Didn't
think the camera would pick that up. I always close the carb heat
before take-off - I never leave it on.
Not sure what the hesitation was, though. This Marvell Schembler MA-3
has a fuel accelerator pump - as you apply the throttle, it pumps fuel
into the carb to keep the engine from getting choked of fuel. It's
pretty slick and I haven't experienced any engine pop or hesitations
like I have with Stromberg equipped engines. Well, not yet...
Cheers,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: using brakes |
I would not be without my brakes. I need to be in COMPLETE control at all t
imes.=0ARoos in Orangeville, Canada=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________
_______=0AFrom: "AMsafetyC@aol.com" <AMsafetyC@aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-lis
t@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 3:49:49 PM=0ASubject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: using brakes=0A=0AThanks guys, all good information in the
planning. =0A =0AWhy so much previous discussion about brakes, cart brakes
, hubs, mechanical =0Avs juice, friction if the entire braking need is rele
gated to taxi, =0Afueling and parking and on a limited basis. seems like a
lot of unnecessary =0Awork for no benefit according too the comments of tod
ay.=0A =0AThe good news is it takes another issue of concern off the table
and allows =0Ame more concentration on the important issues like continued
un interrupted =0Abuilding, saw dust, engine and firewall.=0A =0AThanks=0A
=0AJohn=0A =0Asafe in the morning and so far, we shall see about the rest o
f the =0Aday!=0A =0AIn a message dated 10/1/2009 3:38:32 P.M. Eastern Dayli
ght Time, =0Amichael.d.cuy@nasa.gov writes:=0ASame =0A> here as Jack. I
only use my brakes when I=99m below 10 mph to =0A> facilitate slowi
ng to make a u-turn on the runway or when coming up to the gas =0A> pump o
r inching along for takeoff in line or lastly, on runup. =0A> =0A> =0A>I
=0A> rarely ever touch my brakes on the runway, except to turn around. Ot
hers =0A> flying Pietenpols, what about you? =0A>Jack =0A> Philllips=0A>
=0A>I =0A> don=99t even use my brakes when doing a 180 turn or 360
turn to look around the =0A> pattern before takeoff=0A>for =0A> traffic
=94the steerable tailwheel with full rudder bar deflection one way or
the =0A> other works fine. =0A> =0A>Mike =0A> C. =0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=
===========0A>t href="http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>
============0A>ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matro
nics.com=0A>=====================
================0A>tp://www.matronics.com/con
tribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=======
===0A=0A=0A ______________________________________________________
____________=0ABe smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving j
and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: centersection flop |
The pietenpolis one big air brake! Just chop the power and see how quick it
comes down! Ross in Orangeville, canada=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________
_____________=0A=0A=0A _______________________________________________
___________________=0AConnect with friends from any web browser - no downlo
ad required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http:/
/ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: one/three piece wing |
I plan on doing the same thing and am interested in the replies. My
current plan is to laminate horizontal layers, with scarf joints
overlapped in the center, reinforced with plywood. Center section will
be 3 ft wide to accommodate a slightly larger gas tank.
Dave Aldrich
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: one/three piece wing |
Dallas
I have built both the one and three piece wings. Next time it will be a
one piece. It is easy to transport on a roof rack on the pick up truck,
takes less time to build and is easier to set up and balance.
Just my opinion.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dallas
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: one/three piece wing
Hey guys,
Appreciate the response on the wing dilemma. Just to answer a
few questions; space is not a problem. I fortunately have an old WW II
hanger for a work shop (in the back) so I've got plenty of room. I work
nights at the airport and I work on the Piet at night at work. Just a
perk of flying medevac at night with your base next to the hanger.
So I guess I'm a night owl.
It appears that most choose the three piece wing due to space
issues but I didn't know if there were some other advantages besides the
fact that you can trailer it easier. I'm planning on the one piece wing
unless someone can convince me otherwise. Of course, when I get to the
spar scarf issues, I may change my mind.
Anyhoo, thanks for the input.
Looking forward to the endeavor!
Dallas
Message 24
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Subject: | Push/pull linkage size/type |
I am now thinking of using the "tubes" for the entire tail control linkage.
- What would be an appropriate diameter/wall thickness/material tube to u
se?- I would imagine I will take a weight penalty over cables and pulleys
....maybe?-
Message 25
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Subject: | Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 26
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Doug,
I think you are referring to my post about Poplar. The source was the 1942
War Departments Aircraft Woodwork manual TM 1-414. It does mention no
engineering changes are needed for substituting with Poplar.
Generally, I believe, 43.13 should be considered to supersede TM 1-414. As
an example, TM1-414 specifies 10:1 slope for spar scarf joints and we all
know the current version of 43.13 specifies 15:1.
Personally (this is just my personal opinion)- for the purposes of the
Pietenpol, Poplar can be considered as a substitute for Spruce. Of course,
you still have to apply proper selection and building techniques.
As someone mentions the US forestry service has a lot of data on this that
can be acquired by searching.
Thanks
Ameet Savant
Omaha, NE
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:15 AM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that
> Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find
> it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states
> that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and
> shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever said
> this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug
> Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for
> beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go
> figure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some
> supporting documentation.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
Message 27
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Ryan Mueller wrote:
> As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar:
>
> 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct
> substitute for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly
> reduced strength properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting
> capacity. Gluing satisfactory."
>
> The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is:
> "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and
> shear." They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet.
Not to make trouble, but on the other hand the Piet is massively
overbuilt. I have heard of people reducing the cross section of the
longerons and other structural members (other than the spar) and have
never heard that they'd gotten into trouble by doing so. For this
aircraft, poplar may well be a direct replacement for spruce. Not that I
have done the arithmetic. That low shock resistance would worry me a
little for the spar, though.
Owen
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Subject: | Push/pull linkage size/type |
Michael,
I don't have that info at my fingertips, but consider that you may want to
thread the ends for the Aurora bearings. Pick an appropriate ID and wall
thickness based on the bearings you choose.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Push/pull linkage size/type
I am now thinking of using the "tubes" for the entire tail control linkage.
What would be an appropriate diameter/wall thickness/material tube to use?
I would imagine I will take a weight penalty over cables and
pulleys...maybe?
Message 29
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Subject: | 3-piece wing fairings |
Gary,
What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback...
That aside, have you seen this method?
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_17
4
.JPG&PhotoID=3856
It doesn't have aluminum fairings, therefore no need to attach the
fairings (because they aren't there). Of course, it means modifying the
wing attachment fittings, since the connections have to be accessed from
inside the centersection. Definitely more complicated, but nice and
clean. And it's been done, so we know it's possible.
But if you're going the traditional (plans) route, I'd just double up on
the 1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way
you've got 1/8" of plywood to screw into, which should give you enough
"bite" for the little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in
place.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
All,
I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback...it may have been lost
in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a
good way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section.
Are Tinnermans the only best way to go?
Gary
Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather
lacing like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you
attaching the aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16" x 2"
plywood, which will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide
an attach for the fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up
the screws.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down...)
Message 30
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That is a misinterpretation. Please refer to the attachment it clearly shows
that Poplar is stronger in compression and shear than Spruce.
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar:
>
> 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct substitute
> for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength
> properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing
> satisfactory."
>
> The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is:
> "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and shear."
> They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet.
>
>
> Ryan
>
>
Message 31
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I think I typed this in a hurry- (needed to get back to work... still do!)
Please see table 2 in the document I am referring attached to the previous
email. Basically, Spruce is better in compression (maybe slightly) than
Poplar. For all other properties in the table, Poplar wins out.
Thanks
Ameet
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com> wrote:
> That is a misinterpretation. Please refer to the attachment it clearly
> shows that Poplar is stronger in compression and shear than Spruce.
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar:
>>
>> 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct substitute
>> for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength
>> properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing
>> satisfactory."
>>
>> The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is:
>> "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and shear."
>> They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet.
>>
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>>
Message 32
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Subject: | 3-piece wing fairings |
I know, I know.that's what happens when I wake up early and drink too much
coffee.
I have seen the No-Fairing approach (on Greg & Dale's Piet) and actually
prefer it. At the time of starting my center section I was in the Get
Building and Quit Thinking About It mode. I went with the plans in hand and
am no condemned to fairings.
As always, I value your input. That may be the only viable choice, and
certainly easy.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
Gary,
What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback...
That aside, have you seen this method?
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.JPG
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.JP
G&PhotoID=3856> &PhotoID=3856
It doesn't have aluminum fairings, therefore no need to attach the fairings
(because they aren't there). Of course, it means modifying the wing
attachment fittings, since the connections have to be accessed from inside
the centersection. Definitely more complicated, but nice and clean. And it's
been done, so we know it's possible.
But if you're going the traditional (plans) route, I'd just double up on the
1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way you've got
1/8" of plywood to screw into, which should give you enough "bite" for the
little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in place.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
All,
I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback.it may have been lost in
the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a good
way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are
Tinnermans the only best way to go?
Gary
Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing
like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you attaching the
aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16" x 2" plywood, which will keep
the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide an attach for the fairing.
But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Message 33
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Ameet,
I was referencing the information found in ANC-18 'Design of Wood Aircraft
Structures, pages 21 and 22, Table 2-6 'Strength values of various woods,
based on 15 percent moisture content, to be used in design of aircraft for
use in CONUS'. In this table, Poplar is weaker than Sitka Spruce in all but
one instance (more in some ways than others), that of Tension - Strength
Perpendicular to Grain.....
Ryan
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think I typed this in a hurry- (needed to get back to work... still do!)
> Please see table 2 in the document I am referring attached to the previous
> email. Basically, Spruce is better in compression (maybe slightly) than
> Poplar. For all other properties in the table, Poplar wins out.
>
> Thanks
> Ameet
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> That is a misinterpretation. Please refer to the attachment it clearly
>> shows that Poplar is stronger in compression and shear than Spruce.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar:
>>>
>>> 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct substitute
>>> for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength
>>> properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing
>>> satisfactory."
>>>
>>> The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is:
>>> "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and shear."
>>> They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
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I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce an
d we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4 lami
nated spars. I'd have to do some math=2C but 1" poplar might be a direct r
eplacement for 3/4 spruce.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Mon=2C 5 Oct 2009 13:44:01 -0400
> From: owen5819@comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
>
>
> Ryan Mueller wrote:
> > As you mentioned=2C AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar:
> >
> > 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct
> > substitute for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly
> > reduced strength properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting
> > capacity. Gluing satisfactory."
> >
> > The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is:
> > "Slightly less than spruce=2C except in compression (crushing) and
> > shear." They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet.
>
> Not to make trouble=2C but on the other hand the Piet is massively
> overbuilt. I have heard of people reducing the cross section of the
> longerons and other structural members (other than the spar) and have
> never heard that they'd gotten into trouble by doing so. For this
> aircraft=2C poplar may well be a direct replacement for spruce. Not that
I
> have done the arithmetic. That low shock resistance would worry me a
> little for the spar=2C though.
>
> Owen
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.=0A
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Thanks Ameet you were the one and that was the publication mentioned.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
From: ameetsavant@gmail.com
Doug=2C
I think you are referring to my post about Poplar. The source was the 1942
War Departments Aircraft Woodwork manual TM 1-414. It does mention no engin
eering changes are needed for substituting with Poplar.
Generally=2C I believe=2C 43.13 should be considered to supersede TM 1-414.
As an example=2C TM1-414 specifies 10:1 slope for spar scarf joints and we
all know the current version of 43.13 specifies 15:1.
Personally (this is just my personal opinion)- for the purposes of the Piet
enpol=2C Poplar can be considered as a substitute for Spruce. Of course=2C
you still have to apply proper selection and building techniques.
As someone mentions the US forestry service has a lot of data on this that
can be acquired by searching.
Thanks
Ameet Savant
Omaha=2C NE
On Mon=2C Oct 5=2C 2009 at 4:15 AM=2C Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.c
om> wrote:
Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that Y
ellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find i
t in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states tha
t it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and sh
ock resistance. I know it's properties are similar=2C but If who ever said
this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Do
ug Fir is Impossible to get locally=2C but I found a source locally for for
beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all=2C it's a tulip tree. Go fig
ure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some support
ing documentation.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A
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I am in the process of tensioning my wing drag wires and i would like to tension
them using a tensioner instead of a "tone" i searched the archives and found
a tensioner you can make from macs machine. Does anyone know the proper tension
in pounds for these cables? 10-20-30-40?? I used 1/8" 7x19 stainless cable.
Any help would be appreciated. It seems you could keep tightening them until
something breaks. Thanks
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266654#266654
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Subject: | Piets near Livermore CA? |
I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get up to
see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for that....actually
working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal Airport...looks like a
few interesting airplanes there.
Anyway, anyone in the area?
Jim Markle....
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That was what I remembered reading.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
From: ameetsavant@gmail.com
That is a misinterpretation. Please refer to the attachment it clearly show
s that Poplar is stronger in compression and shear than Spruce.
On Mon=2C Oct 5=2C 2009 at 7:33 AM=2C Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> w
rote:
As you mentioned=2C AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar:
'Excellent working qualities. Should not be used as a direct substitute for
spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength properti
es. Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing satisfactory."
The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is: "Sli
ghtly less than spruce=2C except in compression (crushing) and shear." They
mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet.
Ryan
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.=0A
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Subject: | 3-piece wing fairings |
Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap method.
The fittings are basically the same below the wing=2C just repositioned.
I'm considering ordering them. But=2C I hesitate to deviate much from the
plans.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
From: eng@canadianrogers.com
Gary=2C
What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback...
That aside=2C have you seen this method?
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.
JPG&PhotoID=3856
It doesn't have aluminum fairings=2C therefore no need to attach the fairin
gs (because they aren't there). Of course=2C it means modifying the wing at
tachment fittings=2C since the connections have to be accessed from inside
the centersection. Definitely more complicated=2C but nice and clean. And i
t's been done=2C so we know it's possible.
But if you're going the traditional (plans) route=2C I'd just double up on
the 1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way you've
got 1/8" of plywood to screw into=2C which should give you enough "bite" fo
r the little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in place.
Bill C.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday=2C October 05=2C 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
All=2C
I sent this out on Saturday=2C but got no feedback=85it may have been lost
in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a goo
d way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are Tinn
ermans the only best way to go?
Gary
Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing
like Larry Williams (a very nice touch)=2C how are some of you attaching th
e aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16=94 x 2=94 plywood=2C which
will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib=2C and provide an attach for t
he fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws.
Gary Boothe
Cool=2C Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion=2C mounted
Tail done=2C Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down=85)
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.=0A
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Subject: | Push/pull linkage size/type |
Thanks Gary. I saw the bearings in the pictures on a website and was trying
to figure out the OD you used. Looks to be about 3/8" or so.
--- On Mon, 10/5/09, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Push/pull linkage size/type
Michael,
=C2-
I don=99t have that info at my fingertips, but consider that you may
want to thread the ends for the Aurora bearings. Pick an appropriate ID and
wall thickness based on the bearings you choose.
=C2-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear
(15 ribs down)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Push/pull linkage size/type
=C2-
I am now thinking of using the "tubes" for the entire tail control linkage.
=C2- What would be an appropriate diameter/wall thickness/material tube t
o use?=C2- I would imagine I will take a weight penalty over cables and p
ulleys...maybe?=C2- =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet
enpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
=C2-
Message 41
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Subject: | Re: Piets near my travels |
I will be arriving Portland Oregon Monday 10/12 leaving 10/14 evening for
Sacramento Ca for one 2 nights traveling by car to and from Stockton Ca
then out on Friday morning Sacramento to Baltimore.
I would enjoy visiting Piets in process building and or flying Piets for
meet greet photos and brew, if anyone is interested please advise.
Thanks
John
Junior Ambassador and Special Assistant to Ambassador and Secretary of
Piet, Jim Markle
In a message dated 10/5/2009 3:44:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get
up to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for
that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal
Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there.
Anyway, anyone in the area?
Jim Markle....
Message 42
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Subject: | Re: 3-piece wing fairings |
Doug Dever wrote:
> Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap
> method. The fittings are basically the same below the wing, just
> repositioned. I'm considering ordering them. But, I hesitate to
> deviate much from the plans.
For whatever it is worth, I saw Keri Anne's Piet something like 20 years
ago and considered it close to a masterpiece. I probably would not use
the passenger door, just because it adds weight, but everything else
looked great. The friend I was with at the time agreed, and his opinion
is worth a more than mine--mechanical engineer, ex-crop duster and
military back-seater, EAA Tech Councilor, built one plane and had
rebuilt around a dozen at that point. If Keri Anne's plane has not
executed an Icarus landing yet, there should not be much to worry about.
Owen
Message 43
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Subject: | Piets near Livermore CA? |
Jim,
So close, but so far! I'm stuck in Sacramento all week...
About an hour south of Livermore is Charlie Miller's very excellent Piet.
Charlie is a great guy, and for a case of wine you could probably talk him
into opening his hanger with the Piet and a nice Stinson 108!
I think Charlie monitors this list, but here's his email:
Charles.Miller@palm.com. He lives in Morgan Hill and flies out of Frazier
Lake Airpark (1C9).
BTW - I'm kidding about the wine...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 12:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piets near Livermore CA?
I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get up
to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for
that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal
Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there.
Anyway, anyone in the area?
Jim Markle....
Message 44
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Subject: | Piets near my travels |
John,
Too bad! I live 1 hour east of Sacramento, but am condemned to stay in town
all week, entertaining business Mucky-muks! I would have enjoyed meeting
you!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piets near my travels
I will be arriving Portland Oregon Monday 10/12 leaving 10/14 evening for
Sacramento Ca for one 2 nights traveling by car to and from Stockton Ca then
out on Friday morning Sacramento to Baltimore.
I would enjoy visiting Piets in process building and or flying Piets for
meet greet photos and brew, if anyone is interested please advise.
Thanks
John
Junior Ambassador and Special Assistant to Ambassador and Secretary of Piet,
Jim Markle
In a message dated 10/5/2009 3:44:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get up
to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for
that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal
Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there.
Anyway, anyone in the area?
Jim ========================= Use the ties Day
================================================ - MATRONICS
WEB FORUMS ================================================ -
List Contribution Web Site sp;
==================================================
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http://www.airventure.org/news/2009/090728_cup_racer.html
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Subject: | 3-piece wing fairings |
>From the photos I've seen of NX311GP, the workmanship appeared to be
outstanding. Looked pretty cool. I seem to recall reading that it was
quite heavy, but I can't find anything to back that up, so that might be
untrue.
Sounds like it did have a mishap on landing, and flipped over. And then
it was put up for sale.
http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Keri-Anns_Pietenpol_pics_1.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen
Davies
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
Doug Dever wrote:
> Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap
> method. The fittings are basically the same below the wing, just
> repositioned. I'm considering ordering them. But, I hesitate to
> deviate much from the plans.
For whatever it is worth, I saw Keri Anne's Piet something like 20 years
ago and considered it close to a masterpiece. I probably would not use
the passenger door, just because it adds weight, but everything else
looked great. The friend I was with at the time agreed, and his opinion
is worth a more than mine--mechanical engineer, ex-crop duster and
military back-seater, EAA Tech Councilor, built one plane and had
rebuilt around a dozen at that point. If Keri Anne's plane has not
executed an Icarus landing yet, there should not be much to worry about.
Owen
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Subject: | Re: Piets near my travels |
Thanks I would have enjoyed it too, no everyone can build in Poplar! Maybe
next time?
John
In a message dated 10/5/2009 5:14:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe5@comcast.net writes:
John,
Too bad! I live 1 hour east of Sacramento, but am condemned to stay in
town all week, entertaining business Mucky-muks! I would have enjoyed mee
ting
you!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down)
Do not archive
____________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC
@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piets near my travels
I will be arriving Portland Oregon Monday 10/12 leaving 10/14 evening for
Sacramento Ca for one 2 nights traveling by car to and from Stockton Ca
then out on Friday morning Sacramento to Baltimore.
I would enjoy visiting Piets in process building and or flying Piets for
meet greet photos and brew, if anyone is interested please advise.
Thanks
John
Junior Ambassador and Special Assistant to Ambassador and Secretary of
Piet, Jim Markle
In a message dated 10/5/2009 3:44:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get
up to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for
that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal
Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there.
Anyway, anyone in the area?
Jim Use the ties Day =================
====== - MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS ======================
= - List Contribution Web Site sp;
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
========================
============
========================
============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
========================
============
Message 48
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Doug,
I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16".
I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the
longerons of "the Last Original", and found them to be 7/8" wide x 1"
high Spruce.
Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new, and, if built properly, are as
strong as, if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well, actually,
they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue).
The two advantages of a laminated spar are:
1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection of the
quality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small section).
2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality
(knots, etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore, from
two "spars" that have small defects that might otherwise render them
both unsuitable for use as spars can have the questionable areas cut
away, and the good parts put together to make one good spar.
One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor required
to build them.
Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints (obviously
extra vigilance required when laying up the glue joints for a spar).
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Dever
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce
and we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4
laminated spars. I'd have to do some math, but 1" poplar might be a
direct replacement for 3/4 spruce.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Message 49
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Subject: | shipping & handling charges |
Seeing as most of the parts are imported from the US, I don't even want to
think about how much the shipping was!!!
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, 6 October 2009 1:03 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: shipping & handling charges
Ted,
I did not keep track of my shipping expenses on the engine parts, but the
fuselage is pretty much put together, tail surfaces and center section. I
have wing spars and enough wood to build all the ribs..and I'm sitting at
about 7% for Shipping & Handling. Note that I bought almost all my wood
locally.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TGSTONE236@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping & handling charges
Are most of you keeping tabs on your shipping and handling charges? I must
be ordering too much or too often.
To date I have over $850.00 in charges and still don't how much more I'll
spend. I can tell you now mine will not be the cheapest built Piet on the
list.
I have all the big ticket items,ceconite, paint, struts,forks, wings
done(not covered), "C" section done (covered)with fuel tank, corvair engine
on stand awaiting WW parts to finish, fuselage on straight axle with spoke
wheels and PF Beck's copied brake system.
It looks like the shipping and handling cost are going to run at least 10%
of the building cost.Some of these cost are my on doings as I don't wait to
let a large need list build up as I want to finish the project I am on at
the time and not jump from project to project.
Just curious as to how you handle your Piet building and parts buying.
Ted Stone
Corvair Piet
Wilmington,NC
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Should have been 15/16=2C but I stand corrected at 7/8. Anyway my point wa
s they were less than 1". Doing some SWAG engineering off the top of my he
ad I would say that poplar would be OK.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
From: eng@canadianrogers.com
Doug=2C
I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16".
I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the longerons
of "the Last Original"=2C and found them to be 7/8" wide x 1" high Spruce.
Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new=2C and=2C if built properly=2C are a
s strong as=2C if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well=2C actuall
y=2C they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue).
The two advantages of a laminated spar are:
1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection of the qu
ality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small section).
2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality (knots
=2C etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore=2C from two "
spars" that have small defects that might otherwise render them both unsuit
able for use as spars can have the questionable areas cut away=2C and the g
ood parts put together to make one good spar.
One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor required to
build them.
Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints (obviously extr
a vigilance required when laying up the glue joints for a spar).
Bill C.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever
Sent: Monday=2C October 05=2C 2009 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce an
d we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4 lami
nated spars. I'd have to do some math=2C but 1" poplar might be a direct r
eplacement for 3/4 spruce.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
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Message 51
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Subject: | Re: Plywood web spar |
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Among other comments, Robert Ray wrote:
>
>> ... for my project I will however use Baltic
>> birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains
>> as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both
>> sides in an I beam fashion, the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch, ...
>>
>
> That should work wonderfully, right up until the plywood delaminates.
> Baltic birch ply is high quality stuff, but nearly everything you'll find in
> the U.S. is interior grade and much less water resistant than aircraft or
> marine ply.
> __________________________________________________________________________
>
Owen,
My partner and I are using Baltic birch for the 1/8" gussets on the fuselage
and empennage. Our supplier checked and said it was made with an exterior
glue. I do not recall the name of the glue but have it recorded somewhere
in my records. I have bought two different batches, and tested each by
soaking. After 5 or 6 weeks of soaking, no delamination occurred. I could
not get any of it to separate. We are using the European GL 2 (?) 5 ply,
1/8" equivalent for the fuselage side ply. Both resisted any delamination
from soaking, but when boiled, the GL 2 remained solid, but the Baltic birch
came apart quickly in boiling water. I know that T-88 will also come apart
when heated, so I figured that since I was using T-88 for the glue joints, a
similar type of glue in the plywood would not be a problem.
John Fay
in Peoria
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Subject: | Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... |
Can you describe this a little further? How did you attach the cannister
to the mike?=0A=0ARoss in Orangeville, Ontario, Canada 85 hp Piet=0A=0A=0A_
_______________________________=0AFrom: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountyc
able.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, October 4, 200
9 7:29:10 PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gu
lfstreams...=0A=0A =0ASpeaking of radios.....A while back, when I was =0Aha
ving problems being understood on the radio because of all the wind noise,
=0Asomeone on this list suggested I put a 35mm film canister, with a small
hole, =0Aover the mike. I'm here to tell you it works great! Thanks to wh
=================0A=0A=0A ____________
______________________________________________________=0AMake your browsing
faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer=AE 8. Optimized f
or Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexp
lorer/
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Subject: | Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 |
Hi dear Piets, well, after to let the piet for almost two years now i have
time for work on it, i will clean all (to many dust) ,finish the fuel tank
and install it...
Jorge
Donde estas ubicado? yo estoy en la Ciudad de Mexico, tengo ya algunos aos
trabajando en mi Pietenpol...
Saludos
Javier Cruz
pd. good translation Oscar
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Subject: | Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 |
Welcome back Javier!
By the way, I'm almost out of the supplies you left when you came for a visit...please
bring more asap!!! :-)
Good to see you back. I've been doing some "cleaning" and "dusting" lately myself!
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
>Sent: Oct 5, 2009 8:49 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1
>
>
>Hi dear Piets, well, after to let the piet for almost two years now i have
>time for work on it, i will clean all (to many dust) ,finish the fuel tank
>and install it...
>
> Jorge
>Donde estas ubicado? yo estoy en la Ciudad de Mexico, tengo ya algunos aos
>trabajando en mi Pietenpol...
>
>Saludos
>Javier Cruz
>
>pd. good translation Oscar
>
>
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Subject: | Re: CABLE TENSION? |
Chris
Tension by ear is much more accurate than any gauge. Tighten slowly and
evenly until you hear a "FWANG" Don't keep tightening till you start hearing
any kind of tone like a PING. It's really pretty easy.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "TOPGUN" <rmdinfo@lakefield.net>
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CABLE TENSION?
>
> I am in the process of tensioning my wing drag wires and i would like to
> tension them using a tensioner instead of a "tone" i searched the archives
> and found a tensioner you can make from macs machine. Does anyone know the
> proper tension in pounds for these cables? 10-20-30-40?? I used 1/8" 7x19
> stainless cable. Any help would be appreciated. It seems you could keep
> tightening them until something breaks. Thanks
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266654#266654
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Good stuff.... |
Jim,
You know that's my plane now, right?
In the BPA newsletter, Doc suggested that it should be called the
Tortoise. Maybe I should name 'er Yertle the Turtle or Churchy LaFemme.
;-)
Cheers,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
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Subject: | Re: CABLE TENSION? |
Chris,
I seem to recall reading something like 140 lbs... search the archives
for the term 'tensiometer' in the subject line.
Cheers,
Dan
TOPGUN wrote:
>
> I am in the process of tensioning my wing drag wires and i would like to tension
them using a tensioner instead of a "tone" i searched the archives and found
a tensioner you can make from macs machine. Does anyone know the proper tension
in pounds for these cables? 10-20-30-40?? I used 1/8" 7x19 stainless cable.
Any help would be appreciated. It seems you could keep tightening them until
something breaks. Thanks
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266654#266654
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
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Subject: | Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 |
Great to read you again Jim... how are you..?
and off course Jim ... just waiting for a trip to Oklahoma
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Subject: | Watch Drilling Holes in Plexiglas |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 60
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I vote for Churchy LaFemme, but then I was always a big Pogo fan.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP Icarus Plummet (named by Churchy LeFemme)
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Good stuff....
Jim,
You know that's my plane now, right?
In the BPA newsletter, Doc suggested that it should be called the
Tortoise. Maybe I should name 'er Yertle the Turtle or Churchy LaFemme.
;-)
Cheers,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 61
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|
It's strength is the same it's shock resistance difference is so small
that it shouldn't be a problem, there's a test chart on the freight harbor's
catalog where they drop a hammer weight and shock test different
woods, I don't remember the exact numbers I don't have it here with
me but the difference is like the Spruce fails when hammer is dropped
from 41 inches and the poplar fails at 40 inches.
Another advantage that is only slight is poplar is slightly more perishable.
There is also an independent test where a person test both woods
along with pine hemlock etc and he test conclude the poplar is stronger
than spruce, you'll have to search and find it but the web site is out
there,
I also don't think that the nail holding ability of poplar isn't quite as
good.
I have seen older houses that were built out of poplar still standing
and the newer ones blown away after a tornado come through.
Of course the older house was boxed in with diagonal boards of poplar.
Where as the new ones had particule board.
Russell
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
> Should have been 15/16, but I stand corrected at 7/8. Anyway my point was
> they were less than 1". Doing some SWAG engineering off the top of my
> head I would say that poplar would be OK.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:50:13 -0400
> From: eng@canadianrogers.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> Doug,
>
> I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16".
> I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the longerons
> of "the Last Original", and found them to be 7/8" wide x 1" high Spruce.
>
> Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new, and, if built properly, are as
> strong as, if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well, actually,
> they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue).
> The two advantages of a laminated spar are:
> 1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection of the
> quality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small section).
> 2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality (knots,
> etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore, from two "spars"
> that have small defects that might otherwise render them both unsuitable for
> use as spars can have the questionable areas cut away, and the good parts
> put together to make one good spar.
>
> One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor required
> to build them.
> Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints (obviously
> extra vigilance required when laying up the glue joints for a spar).
>
> Bill C.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Doug Dever
> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2009 3:13 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
>
> I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce
> and we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4
> laminated spars. I'd have to do some math, but 1" poplar might be a direct
> replacement for 3/4 spruce.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> *
>
> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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|
Tulip tree, tulip poplar and yellow poplar are all the same tree.
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's strength is the same it's shock resistance difference is so small
> that it shouldn't be a problem, there's a test chart on the freight
> harbor's
> catalog where they drop a hammer weight and shock test different
> woods, I don't remember the exact numbers I don't have it here with
> me but the difference is like the Spruce fails when hammer is dropped
> from 41 inches and the poplar fails at 40 inches.
> Another advantage that is only slight is poplar is slightly
> more perishable.
> There is also an independent test where a person test both woods
> along with pine hemlock etc and he test conclude the poplar is stronger
> than spruce, you'll have to search and find it but the web site is out
> there,
> I also don't think that the nail holding ability of poplar isn't quite as
> good.
> I have seen older houses that were built out of poplar still standing
> and the newer ones blown away after a tornado come through.
> Of course the older house was boxed in with diagonal boards of poplar.
> Where as the new ones had particule board.
>
>
> Russell
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Should have been 15/16, but I stand corrected at 7/8. Anyway my point was
>> they were less than 1". Doing some SWAG engineering off the top of my
>> head I would say that poplar would be OK.
>>
>> Doug Dever
>> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
>> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:50:13 -0400
>> From: eng@canadianrogers.com
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>
>> Doug,
>>
>> I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16".
>> I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the
>> longerons of "the Last Original", and found them to be 7/8" wide x 1" high
>> Spruce.
>>
>> Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new, and, if built properly, are as
>> strong as, if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well, actually,
>> they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue).
>> The two advantages of a laminated spar are:
>> 1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection of the
>> quality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small section).
>> 2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality
>> (knots, etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore, from two
>> "spars" that have small defects that might otherwise render them both
>> unsuitable for use as spars can have the questionable areas cut away, and
>> the good parts put together to make one good spar.
>>
>> One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor required
>> to build them.
>> Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints (obviously
>> extra vigilance required when laying up the glue joints for a spar).
>>
>> Bill C.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Doug Dever
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2009 3:13 PM
>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
>>
>> I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce
>> and we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4
>> laminated spars. I'd have to do some math, but 1" poplar might be a direct
>> replacement for 3/4 spruce.
>>
>> Doug Dever
>> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up
>> now.
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
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Subject: | translating Jorge's post- #1 |
Jim: exactly which supplies are you running low on?
I happen to have 750ml of tequila Sauza Hornitos gold-
reposado, and it sips pretty nicely. I especially like
it when the flask is at about 45-50F.
Oops... I think I should be talking about mixing T88...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: 3-piece wing fairings |
What I have done is divide the distance between panels and extend the
ply covering
to that point. I will do the same with the wing panels. There will be a
small gap,
maybe 1/8" that I will fill with a rubber T section. Look above the wing
attach
fitting and you will see the extension. the T section is kinda like the
depiction
below. Stuffed into the gap the wedgies hold it in place and the "D"
covers the gap.
<-<-D
Clif
Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap
method. The fittings are basically the same below the wing, just
repositioned. I'm considering ordering them. But, I hesitate to
deviate much from the plans.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 13:46:30 -0400
From: eng@canadianrogers.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Gary,
What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback...
That aside, have you seen this method?
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_17
4.JPG&PhotoID=3856
It doesn't have aluminum fairings, therefore no need to attach the
fairings (because they aren't there). Of course, it means modifying the
wing attachment fittings, since the connections have to be accessed from
inside the centersection. Definitely more complicated, but nice and
clean. And it's been done, so we know it's possible.
But if you're going the traditional (plans) route, I'd just double up
on the 1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way
you've got 1/8" of plywood to screw into, which should give you enough
"bite" for the little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in
place.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:24 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
All,
I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback=85it may have been
lost in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking
for a good way to attach the fairings between the wings and center
section. Are Tinnermans the only best way to go?
Gary
Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather
lacing like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you
attaching the aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16=94 x 2=94
plywood, which will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide
an attach for the fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up
the screws.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down=85)
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign
up now.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/05/09 18:23:00
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Subject: | Don Emch-- brilliant---- throttle setup |
I did mine like the plans show. It seems to be at about the right height for me
to use my thigh as an arm rest. The rod is just a 1/4" steel rod that is threaded
at each end with a 1/4-28 die. There is no lever in the front cockpit,
it just connects to a Bowden cable. When a front passenger is flying they just
grab onto the rod and control the throttle that way. I was concerned about
having a lever up there that could get caught on a passenger's clothing, jacket
or arm and could limit my use of it. It could happen and they might not even
know they are hung up on it. I'm very leary of having stuff up front that
can be disturbed by unknowing passengers.
This is simply brilliant. I think Don talked with Frank Pavliga (I'm making an
assumption here) about Frank's extra large XXL passenger he took up in Sky
Gypsy and on landing Frank
could NOT throttle back because the knob in the front seat was binding on his XXL
passenger's winter coat and the XXXL passenger didn't know it !!!!
Frank was able to land safely but cutting the mag switch many times on final approach
to descend and land. (like the old WWI blip-switches where you had either
full power or a windmilling propeller)
Thank God that Frank's throttle did not get stuck on this passenger's coat when
attempting say a go around on a botched landing.....
You take yer chances.
Mike C.
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Subject: | Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 |
hehehehe, well, "it sips pretty nicely" is close...this is special beyond words.
I could probably afford 750ml of T88...but not the gift Javier brought to my home
when he visited. I have saved it for special occasions only. And I always
get the same response...."don't you DARE mix THIS in a Marguerita!!!"
In fact, I have JUST enough left for a sip when Mark and John visit later this
month...
Actually, I have this little tradition. There is an unopened bottle of Sierra
beer on a shelf in my workshop. That bottle was given to me on one of my first
visits with the Piet builders in NorCal. There's also an unopened bottle of
Corona next to it that I received from Sterling when I signed up as a member
in good standing of the Texas Air Camper Organization (TACO) several years ago.
Both are very special to me and will remain unopened. I look at them and just
burst with pride that I get to hang out with such a great bunch of people.
Neither are worth much for drinking at this point but still VERY special to
me.
Life is good....
please, do not archive any of my silly yammering....
To at least make this even a tiny bit "building a Pietenpol" related...last weekend
I finally figured out my fuel line/fuel valve setup, thanks to Oscar. The
valve attaches directly to the bottom of the tank. From the valve there's a
flexible hose over to where the fuel line runs down the inside of the laminated
maple/mahoghany cabane. In case something happens and the cabanes moves somehow,
the flexible fuel line will....flex. Someone mentioned recently that we
can learn a lesson from William Wynne's horrible accident. I learned, thank
you very much.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 5, 2009 8:01 PM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1
>
>
>
>Jim: exactly which supplies are you running low on?
>I happen to have 750ml of tequila Sauza Hornitos gold-
>reposado, and it sips pretty nicely. I especially like
>it when the flask is at about 45-50F.
>
>Oops... I think I should be talking about mixing T88...
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>do not archive
>
>
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Subject: | Re: CABLE TENSION? |
I'm getting ready to do this soon too... can someone elaborate a bit more on the
FWANG method?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266738#266738
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Subject: | Re: Watch Drilling Holes in Plexiglas |
Love those videos.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266739#266739
Message 69
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Subject: | 3-piece wing fairings |
Clif,
Thanks for the picture! You lost me with the "rubber T section" and "the
wedgies", though. You say "wedgy" and my mind goes to a completely different
place! Still, I think I get the picture that you have closed off the gap by
extending the 1/16" plywood in to the area of the afore mentioned gap..I
like that!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
What I have done is divide the distance between panels and extend the ply
covering
to that point. I will do the same with the wing panels. There will be a
small gap,
maybe 1/8" that I will fill with a rubber T section. Look above the wing
attach
fitting and you will see the extension. the T section is kinda like the
depiction
below. Stuffed into the gap the wedgies hold it in place and the "D" covers
the gap.
<-<-D
Clif
Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap method.
The fittings are basically the same below the wing, just repositioned. I'm
considering ordering them. But, I hesitate to deviate much from the plans.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
_____
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
From: eng@canadianrogers.com
Gary,
What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback...
That aside, have you seen this method?
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.JPG
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.JP
G&PhotoID=3856> &PhotoID=3856
It doesn't have aluminum fairings, therefore no need to attach the fairings
(because they aren't there). Of course, it means modifying the wing
attachment fittings, since the connections have to be accessed from inside
the centersection. Definitely more complicated, but nice and clean. And it's
been done, so we know it's possible.
But if you're going the traditional (plans) route, I'd just double up on the
1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way you've got
1/8" of plywood to screw into, which should give you enough "bite" for the
little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in place.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings
All,
I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback.it may have been lost in
the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a good
way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are
Tinnermans the only best way to go?
Gary
Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing
like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you attaching the
aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16" x 2" plywood, which will keep
the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide an attach for the fairing.
But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
- Release Date: 10/05/09 18:23:00
Message 70
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you need writing Que not Qe
--- On Sat, 10/3/09, ALAN LYSCARS <alyscars@myfairpoint.net> wrote:
From: ALAN LYSCARS <alyscars@myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 5 minutes
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0AQe??=0A-=0AAl=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A F
rom: =0A jorge =0A lizarraga =0A To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A
=0A Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:56 =0A PM=0A Subject: Re: Pietenpo
l-List: 5 =0A minutes=0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A oscar es pero que continues tanbien y disfrutan
do tus =0A vuelos con tu piet yo estoy casi terminando toda la secci
on de la cola y =0A boy ha empesar algunas partes de metal para los
horns y attach for =0A cables te agradeseria mucho si me pudieras da
r una idea mejor ge como =0A construir una vercion mejor dela palanc
a de aselerador del gas (turttel) =0A asselerator ho algo asi estas
son algunas fotos gracias de nuevo jorge =0A from hanford- y esper
o cuando my piet este listo para volar poder =0A bisitar ha todoes u
stedes tanks bery mauchs
--- On Fri, =0A 10/2/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> =0Awro
te:
=0A
From: =0A Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: =0A 5 minutes
a <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Dan; =0A excellent video.- It really captures the essence of
a typical =0A Piet flight, or at least part of it.
I notice that at least one =0A of your lift struts has a splice
in it.- I also notice that =0A your airplane wants to make carb
ice as readily as mine does =0A ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, =0A TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website =0A at http://www.flysquirrel.net --- =0A
-------- =0A ------ =- - - -
=0A - - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -=0A http://www.matronic
s.com/atronics.com" bsp; =0A - - - - - - - -Matt Dra
lle, List =0A Adontribution" =0A target="_blank">http:/
/www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
Message 71
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Subject: | Re: Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford |
A couple of connections in this one.
Harrison Ford Tribute http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1184434145?bclid=1184431670&bctid=42883529001
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266743#266743
Message 72
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Subject: | Re: 3-piece wing fairings |
Alright Gutterboy! :-) Maybe this will help. I've seen this stuff but
can't remember where, exactly. I'll find when the time comes.
Clif
Clif,
Thanks for the picture! You lost me with the "rubber T section" and
"the wedgies", though. You say "wedgy" and my mind goes to a completely
different place!
Gary Boothe
Message 73
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I haven't seen any specs as to how many growth rings per inch
I think the assumption that grain run out of 16-1 will work but the
growth rings seem wider I know Spruce you have max and min rings,
the spruce on Alaskan costal areas is to brittle to many growth rings.
russ
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:14 AM, vman1922 <kkamp72@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I see that Piper listed it as a substitute for the Cub- among other woods.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266543#266543
>
>
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