Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Mon 10/05/09


Total Messages Posted: 73



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:22 AM - Poplar (Doug Dever)
     2. 03:02 AM - Re: Poplar (Owen Davies)
     3. 04:15 AM - Re: Poplar (vman1922)
     4. 04:25 AM - Re: my project tribute (long) (vman1922)
     5. 05:08 AM - Re: my project tribute (long) (helspersew@aol.com)
     6. 05:14 AM - Re: Poplar (Gary Boothe)
     7. 05:51 AM - Re: Poplar (Ryan Mueller)
     8. 05:52 AM - shipping & handling charges (TGSTONE236@aol.com)
     9. 06:48 AM - A 65 starter (Skip Gadd)
    10. 06:49 AM - Re: shipping & handling charges (Michael Perez)
    11. 06:50 AM - Re: shipping & handling charges ()
    12. 07:17 AM - Re: shipping & handling charges (Gary Boothe)
    13. 07:22 AM - Re: Poplar (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
    14. 07:23 AM - 3-piece wing fairings (Gary Boothe)
    15. 07:50 AM - Re: Poplar (Gary Boothe)
    16. 07:50 AM - Re: my project tribute (long) (Tim Willis)
    17. 08:04 AM - Re: throttle setup; (Tim Willis)
    18. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: reinforced "end" ribs (Ross Alexander)
    19. 08:07 AM - Re: 5 minutes (Dan Yocum)
    20. 09:10 AM - Re: using brakes (Ross Alexander)
    21. 09:15 AM - Re: centersection flop (Ross Alexander)
    22. 09:19 AM - Re: one/three piece wing (Dave Aldrich)
    23. 09:20 AM - Re: one/three piece wing (Dick N.)
    24. 09:49 AM - Push/pull linkage size/type (Michael Perez)
    25. 10:21 AM - Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford (Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov)
    26. 10:41 AM - Re: Poplar (Ameet Savant)
    27. 10:45 AM - Re: Poplar (Owen Davies)
    28. 11:11 AM - Re: Push/pull linkage size/type (Gary Boothe)
    29. 11:11 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Bill Church)
    30. 11:12 AM - Re: Poplar (Ameet Savant)
    31. 11:22 AM - Re: Poplar (Ameet Savant)
    32. 11:29 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Gary Boothe)
    33. 12:04 PM - Re: Poplar (Ryan Mueller)
    34. 12:13 PM - Re: Poplar (Doug Dever)
    35. 12:24 PM - Re: Poplar (Doug Dever)
    36. 12:32 PM - CABLE TENSION? (TOPGUN)
    37. 12:44 PM - Piets near Livermore CA? (Jim Markle)
    38. 12:44 PM - Re: Poplar (Doug Dever)
    39. 12:46 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Doug Dever)
    40. 12:47 PM - Re: Push/pull linkage size/type (Michael Perez)
    41. 01:18 PM - Re: Piets near my travels (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    42. 01:28 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Owen Davies)
    43. 01:58 PM - Re: Piets near Livermore CA? (Gary Boothe)
    44. 02:13 PM - Re: Piets near my travels (Gary Boothe)
    45. 02:14 PM - Good stuff.... (Jim Markle)
    46. 02:15 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Bill Church)
    47. 02:17 PM - Re: Piets near my travels (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    48. 02:50 PM - Re: Poplar (Bill Church)
    49. 03:24 PM - Re: shipping & handling charges (Peter W Johnson)
    50. 03:39 PM - Re: Poplar (Doug Dever)
    51. 05:06 PM - Re: Plywood web spar (John Fay)
    52. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (Ross Alexander)
    53. 05:49 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Javier Cruz)
    54. 05:57 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Jim Markle)
    55. 06:30 PM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (Dick N.)
    56. 06:39 PM - Re: Good stuff.... (Dan Yocum)
    57. 06:39 PM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (Dan Yocum)
    58. 06:51 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Javier Cruz)
    59. 06:54 PM - Watch Drilling Holes in Plexiglas (Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov)
    60. 06:58 PM - Re: Good stuff.... (Jack Phillips)
    61. 07:34 PM - Re: Poplar (Robert Ray)
    62. 07:36 PM - Re: Poplar (Robert Ray)
    63. 08:04 PM - translating Jorge's post- #1 (Oscar Zuniga)
    64. 08:08 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Clif Dawson)
    65. 08:12 PM - Don Emch-- brilliant---- throttle setup (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    66. 08:47 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Jim Markle)
    67. 09:11 PM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (K5YAC)
    68. 09:17 PM - Re: Watch Drilling Holes in Plexiglas (K5YAC)
    69. 09:28 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Gary Boothe)
    70. 09:45 PM - Re: 5 minutes (jorge lizarraga)
    71. 10:09 PM - Re: Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford (K5YAC)
    72. 11:13 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Clif Dawson)
    73. 11:47 PM - Re: Re: Poplar (Robert Ray)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:22:36 AM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Poplar
    Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that Y ellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find i t in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states tha t it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and sh ock resistance. I know it's properties are similar=2C but If who ever said this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Do ug Fir is Impossible to get locally=2C but I found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all=2C it's a tulip tree. Go fig ure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some support ing documentation. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.=0A


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:02:20 AM PST US
    From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    Doug Dever wrote: > Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated > that Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I > could find it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 > which states that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly > lower strength and shock resistance. I know it's properties are > similar, but If who ever said this could speak up and let me know the > source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug Fir is Impossible to get locally, > but I found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn't a > poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go figure) I'd feel a lot more > comfortable using it if I could find some supporting documentation. Forest Products Laboratory ought to have the data. Their website has a search engine. I'd plug "yellow poplar" and "strength" into it and see what comes up. Owen


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:15:30 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: "vman1922" <kkamp72@comcast.net>
    I see that Piper listed it as a substitute for the Cub- among other woods. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266543#266543


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:25:51 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: my project tribute (long)
    From: "vman1922" <kkamp72@comcast.net>
    Thanks for the post! My hat is also off. That a way to make positives out of troubles. May God Bless and ease your family's burdens. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266546#266546


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:08:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: my project tribute (long)
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Tom, Thank you for that post. Your perspective is the one we all should have. Providence has arranged for most of us?to be more fortunate, and I hope we can all stop today to reflect on that fact. The day I see your Piet fly will be very sweet indeed. Keep going. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. .?


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:14:35 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Poplar
    Doug, Here's a page out of 43.13. It shows that Poplar is not a 'direct' replacement, but very close. My airframe is all Poplar, Hickory struts, fir spars. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poplar Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever said this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go figure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some supporting documentation. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio _____ Hotmail: PowerfuL/go/171222986/direct/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:51:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar: 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct substitute for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing satisfactory." The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is: "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and shear." They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet. You can also go to Chris Tracy's excellent site: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/construction.htm, and download ANC-18, where you can find tables with comparative strength data between different types of wood. Around pages 21/22 you can find the info for sitka spruce and yellow poplar; skim the whole document, I'm sure there's even more. That's just what a quick few minutes of looking turned up. Anywho, this chart shows that yellow poplar is indeed weaker than spruce in almost every category, in some characteristics more than others. Not tremendously weaker, but weaker nonetheless. Others are building with it.....maybe someone can speak to whether or not anyone has flown it (Gary could, if he'd hurry up with those ribs). I personally would want to 'carefully account' for any possible loss of strength before using it, but then I also wouldn't want to spend the time trying to 'carefully account' for it's slightly reduced strength properties. I'd rather just build. You only live about 500 miles from Wicks, and even if you bite the bullet and just build entirely with spruce it's still not going to be the largest expense in this whole process of building the airplane. Unless, that is, you come back in 6 mos to a year and ask if a 2.0L Dodge Neon engine with a chain redrive will be a suitable powerplant (cheaper than an A65), or whether we can find where someone said it's fine to use bedsheets to cover the airplane (the touch, the feel of cotton, the fabric of your Pietenpol?). Or if you coat the entire airframe in Raka epoxy filled with silica (just kidding). Then the spruce may have turned out to be your largest expense. Good luck in whatever you choose to build with! Now I'm late for work... :P Have a good morning all, Ryan On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:15 AM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote: > Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that > Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find > it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states > that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and > shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever said > this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug > Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for > beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go > figure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some > supporting documentation. > > Doug Dever > In beautiful Stow Ohio >


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:52:19 AM PST US
    From: TGSTONE236@aol.com
    Subject: shipping & handling charges
    Are most of you keeping tabs on your shipping and handling charges? I must be ordering too much or too often. To date I have over $850.00 in charges and still don't how much more I'll spend. I can tell you now mine will not be the cheapest built Piet on the list. I have all the big ticket items,ceconite, paint, struts,forks, wings done(not covered), "C" section done (covered)with fuel tank, corvair engine on stand awaiting WW parts to finish, fuselage on straight axle with spoke wheels and PF Beck's copied brake system. It looks like the shipping and handling cost are going to run at least 10% of the building cost.Some of these cost are my on doings as I don't wait to let a large need list build up as I want to finish the project I am on at the time and not jump from project to project. Just curious as to how you handle your Piet building and parts buying. Ted Stone Corvair Piet Wilmington,NC


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:48:26 AM PST US
    From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: A 65 starter
    Has anyone seen or have an opinion on Bill Rewey's Sky-Tech/Lycoming ring gear starter. He has an ad for drawings and photos in the current BPA Newsletter. Skip


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:49:06 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: shipping & handling charges
    I have chosen to buy a little at a time from where ever has the best prices .. Since my purchases have been mostly wood, I have bought local, bulk from Public Lumber and some from Aircraft Spruce. I buy ahead of time so that th e project moves and I am not waiting for wood.- It would be nice to get a complete wood list together and place one massive order with one shipping charge, but that just would not work because I buy from various sources and I use various woods, (birtch and Okume ply for example.) and I am not alwa ys sure where and what I will be using until I get to that part of the buil d. - So, I buy when I can with the money I have and go. I try not to get too ben t about paying multiple shipping charges for multiple shipments because tha t is the only way I can do it now.- Plus, the family does not feel neglec ted as we can still go to Cedar Point, out to eat, etc. along the way.


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:50:48 AM PST US
    From: <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: Re: shipping & handling charges
    I don't keep track of the cost of any of it. It's just to depressing but 10% doesn't sound too bad. On the bright side, usually on shipped orders they are from out of state so you don't have to pay sales tax. I, living in the great state of California and only 450 miles from Aircraft Spruce, get he honor of paying shipping and 7.75% sales tax. Oh the joy! Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: TGSTONE236@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping & handling charges Are most of you keeping tabs on your shipping and handling charges? I must be ordering too much or too often. To date I have over $850.00 in charges and still don't how much more I'll spend. I can tell you now mine will not be the cheapest built Piet on the list. I have all the big ticket items,ceconite, paint, struts,forks, wings done(not covered), "C" section done (covered)with fuel tank, corvair engine on stand awaiting WW parts to finish, fuselage on straight axle with spoke wheels and PF Beck's copied brake system. It looks like the shipping and handling cost are going to run at least 10% of the building cost.Some of these cost are my on doings as I don't wait to let a large need list build up as I want to finish the project I am on at the time and not jump from project to project. Just curious as to how you handle your Piet building and parts buying. Ted Stone Corvair Piet Wilmington,NC


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:17:19 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: shipping & handling charges
    Ted, I did not keep track of my shipping expenses on the engine parts, but the fuselage is pretty much put together, tail surfaces and center section. I have wing spars and enough wood to build all the ribs..and I'm sitting at about 7% for Shipping & Handling. Note that I bought almost all my wood locally. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TGSTONE236@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping & handling charges Are most of you keeping tabs on your shipping and handling charges? I must be ordering too much or too often. To date I have over $850.00 in charges and still don't how much more I'll spend. I can tell you now mine will not be the cheapest built Piet on the list. I have all the big ticket items,ceconite, paint, struts,forks, wings done(not covered), "C" section done (covered)with fuel tank, corvair engine on stand awaiting WW parts to finish, fuselage on straight axle with spoke wheels and PF Beck's copied brake system. It looks like the shipping and handling cost are going to run at least 10% of the building cost.Some of these cost are my on doings as I don't wait to let a large need list build up as I want to finish the project I am on at the time and not jump from project to project. Just curious as to how you handle your Piet building and parts buying. Ted Stone Corvair Piet Wilmington,NC


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:22:09 AM PST US
    From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>
    Subject: Poplar
    Gary=2C I'm interested in your struts - do you have a photo? Are these the lift st ruts=2C cabanes=2C??? I plan on making mine of spruce with a ply core (lif t=2C cabanes=2C etc). Thanks=2C Tom B. From: gboothe5@comcast.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar Doug=2C Here=92s a page out of 43.13. It shows that Poplar is not a =91direct=92 replacement=2C but very close. My airfram e is all Poplar=2C Hickory struts=2C fir spars. Gary Boothe Cool=2C Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion=2C mounted Tail done=2C Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down=85) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever Sent: Monday=2C October 05=2C 2009 2:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poplar Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that Yellow Poplar was a direct replacem ent for Spruce. Darned if I could find it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states that it is not a direct replacem ent due to it's slightly lower strength and shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar=2C but If who ever said this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug Fir is Impossible to get locally=2C but I found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn 't a poplar at all=2C it's a tulip tree. Go figure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some supporting documentation. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Hotmail: PowerfuL/go/171222986/direct/01/' target='_new'>Get it now. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:23:54 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: 3-piece wing fairings
    All, I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback.it may have been lost in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a good way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are Tinnermans the only best way to go? Gary Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you attaching the aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16" x 2" plywood, which will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide an attach for the fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.)


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:50:06 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Poplar
    Tom, Here are a few pics. Mine are simply laminated Hickory with no other frills. I can take some other close-ups if you want. The lift struts will also be Hickory, but I won't make them until the wings are done and I can get some actual measurements for length. I like the attachments that Douwe shows in the attachment. I know others have used spruce and combination with core materials - you should be fine. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:14 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar Gary, I'm interested in your struts - do you have a photo? Are these the lift struts, cabanes,??? I plan on making mine of spruce with a ply core (lift, cabanes, etc). Thanks, Tom B. _____ From: gboothe5@comcast.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar Doug, Here's a page out of 43.13. It shows that Poplar is not a 'direct' replacement, but very close. My airframe is all Poplar, Hickory struts, fir spars. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Poplar Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever said this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go figure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some supporting documentation. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio _____ Hotmail: PowerfuL/go/171222986/direct/01/' target='_new'>Get it now. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:50:55 AM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: my project tribute (long)
    Tom, Thanks for sharing your story. I am sure we are al sorry your path has been so rough. It is obvious, however, that your attitude and your steps to include your family in the project will help you all make it through these trying times as well as possible. Attitude, faith, and guts are what help us keep getting up after being knocked down. It sounds like youi and your family have it all. The center section is large enough for a BIG signature by your mom. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Oct 4, 2009 11:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: my project tribute (long) Ok, this is not a question - more of a personal story I guess. I started my Piet in 2001 with the purchase of plans and 4 rough sawn spruce boards from McCormicks in Madison. At first I went at it pretty steadily, building most of the fuselage in about a year. My wife and I had been married for quite a few years already and hadn't had any kids - nor were they really in our imediate future. We moved homes in 2003 and my project got stored at my in-laws place for the winter. The only thing I had completed at the new home was the turtledeck - which to this day, I'm not happy with. Problem was, I couldn't get it into the basement at the new house and the garage wasn't heated. Once it's at some other place than home, it's hard to motivate yourself to go work on it. So it sat there for a couple years. I did complete the tail section. And in 2005-06 I built the wing ribs and tore down a couple corvair motors. Most of the corvair parts are here now, ready to be assembled. My first boy was born in 2006. We had 4 miscarriages up until this point and figured we'd never have children. Actually, we were in the process of adopting. Since then, the project has done nothing but collect dust. It's hard to find time (and money) once you have young children around. Well, it's 2009 and I'm finally getting back to work on it again. I bought some material for wing spars and have been prepping to make the center section. Last year my father in law had a heart attack and through the treatments for it, found out he had a rare form of cancer. He lived with us for 3 months because he needed contant care and his wife worked nights. I can't say enough about how my wife stepped up and took care of him. This is what they mean in the bible when they say "Honor your father and mother". It's been a rough year or so with a roller coaster of emotions, hospital and nursing home visits. He's currently recovering from hip surgery due to his hip deteriorating - due to the cancer. A couple months ago, I found out my wife was pregnant again - this was a huge surprise (blessing) since we were pretty much sure we didn't want another child at this point. Hmm, how'd that happen;). Three weeks ago, I was put on part time work - just escaping a round of layoffs. The economy finally caught up to me. Then just two weeks ago, my mother found out she has pancreatic cancer. Statistics say she'll be dead within a year. Why am I saying all of this? Not to show anyone that my life is worse or buisier than others. It's because of what I've been doing since I started building my wing ribs a couple years ago. I asked family members and friends to build one rib, sign and date it. Only a few of them did it, including my wife, my dad, mother and father in-law. So I built most of them. But at that point, I wanted this airplane to mean something to others - not just me. I recently asked my father in law to think about the N-number and how he'd like to see it - someting that would mean something to him. He was a garbage man all his life and he loved it - so, someday, I'll have something about that on the airplane - N-number or otherwise. I've recently asked my mom to help me build the center section to which she agreed. It's my way of creating memories with these poeple - hopefully something they'll remember too. Anyway, my project is on the slow track for sure, but I'm ok with that. If it wasn't for all the other things in life, maybe it would be further along but hey, life happens to all of us. Someday, I hope to finish this thing and fly it, commemorating all the people and efforts that have gone into it along the way. Until then, I'll just keep on building at some pace - slow at times, fast at times.. If you're project isn't progressing as fast as you want or maybe you've lost interest, do something to make it special - and take your time. It's not a race. Life happens. Sorry for the rant, just feelin nostalgic tonight I guess. Tom B. Brooklyn Park, MN creating memories with my mom - working on the center section


    Message 17


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    Time: 08:04:58 AM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: throttle setup;
    Jorge, You are welcome. Keep up the good work. Tim in central Texas -----Original Message----- From: jorge lizarraga Sent: Oct 4, 2009 4:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup; tanks for the aidea help alot nex week work in there also stare instal in side all turn bucles soon I think$$$$$$$$$,cables nico pres timbles etc.an make weld stuf for horns and controler thinks tanks for you help, jorge from hanford --- On Sun, 10/4/09, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote: From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup Jorge & Oscar, Corky's second project (now mine) is as Oscar described-- the two throttles are connected by small diameter steel push-pull tubes, with a Bowden cable from the front pit to the carb. The handles are on top. I plan for a left glove (leather, no lace, Michael Jackson) to keep 100 mph June bugs and chilling air off my knuckles. Usually chilling air is not a major factor in TX, or Oscar would have fixed that. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> >Sent: Oct 4, 2009 11:01 AM >To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: throttle setup > > > >Jorge; I think the throttle that is shown in the >plans is about as simple as you can get. One thing >that would be an improvement is to link the front >and rear throttle levers with a rod or tube, then >carry a Bowden cable forward to the carb from the >front throttle. I've seen pictures of that setup >on more than one Piet but I don't remember whose >airplane had it. The last ones I saw were of a >really nice, clean, simple cockpit with beautifully >varnished plywood cockpit; I'm no wood expert but >it looked like birch ply (blonde color), dark hardwood >knobs on the throttles. > >41CC has the pilot's throttle up near the cockpit >coaming with the pivot at the bottom; upside-down >from what the plans show. I like that setup since >it gives more room down in the cockpit but when the >weather is cold, it puts your hand almost out in >the wind. I can post a photo of the throttle if you >are interested. And the front throttle is just a >knob attached to the inner wire of the Bowden cable >with bug nuts to secure it. > >PS: "Cold", as defined in Texas, is anything >below about 80F. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.mat/forums.matronics.com" bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<BR==========


    Message 18


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    Time: 08:07:47 AM PST US
    From: Ross Alexander <karbath1@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Re: reinforced "end" ribs
    an excellent on carb ice! A must read for everyone! Thanks for a great safety article for all. Ross in Orangeville, Canada __________________________________________________________________ Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/


    Message 19


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    Time: 08:07:48 AM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: 5 minutes
    Hi Oscar, Oscar Zuniga wrote: >> what can you hear that suggests that there's >> ice forming? > > [In the video, rolling to the centerline for takeoff, > pilot advances the throttle, engine hesitates, and > someone says] "carb heat!" I finally watched the video without the constant din of children in the background. I remember that, now. I was going through my checklist for take off and verbalized "carb heat, off" and Steve repeated it. Didn't think the camera would pick that up. I always close the carb heat before take-off - I never leave it on. Not sure what the hesitation was, though. This Marvell Schembler MA-3 has a fuel accelerator pump - as you apply the throttle, it pumps fuel into the carb to keep the engine from getting choked of fuel. It's pretty slick and I haven't experienced any engine pop or hesitations like I have with Stromberg equipped engines. Well, not yet... Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.


    Message 20


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    Time: 09:10:35 AM PST US
    From: Ross Alexander <karbath1@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Re: using brakes
    I would not be without my brakes. I need to be in COMPLETE control at all t imes.=0ARoos in Orangeville, Canada=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________ _______=0AFrom: "AMsafetyC@aol.com" <AMsafetyC@aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-lis t@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 3:49:49 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: using brakes=0A=0AThanks guys, all good information in the planning. =0A =0AWhy so much previous discussion about brakes, cart brakes , hubs, mechanical =0Avs juice, friction if the entire braking need is rele gated to taxi, =0Afueling and parking and on a limited basis. seems like a lot of unnecessary =0Awork for no benefit according too the comments of tod ay.=0A =0AThe good news is it takes another issue of concern off the table and allows =0Ame more concentration on the important issues like continued un interrupted =0Abuilding, saw dust, engine and firewall.=0A =0AThanks=0A =0AJohn=0A =0Asafe in the morning and so far, we shall see about the rest o f the =0Aday!=0A =0AIn a message dated 10/1/2009 3:38:32 P.M. Eastern Dayli ght Time, =0Amichael.d.cuy@nasa.gov writes:=0ASame =0A> here as Jack. I only use my brakes when I=99m below 10 mph to =0A> facilitate slowi ng to make a u-turn on the runway or when coming up to the gas =0A> pump o r inching along for takeoff in line or lastly, on runup. =0A> =0A> =0A>I =0A> rarely ever touch my brakes on the runway, except to turn around. Ot hers =0A> flying Pietenpols, what about you? =0A>Jack =0A> Philllips=0A> =0A>I =0A> don=99t even use my brakes when doing a 180 turn or 360 turn to look around the =0A> pattern before takeoff=0A>for =0A> traffic =94the steerable tailwheel with full rudder bar deflection one way or the =0A> other works fine. =0A> =0A>Mike =0A> C. =0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>= ===========0A>t href="http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A> ============0A>ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matro nics.com=0A>===================== ================0A>tp://www.matronics.com/con tribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>======= ===0A=0A=0A ______________________________________________________ ____________=0ABe smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving j and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca


    Message 21


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    Time: 09:15:21 AM PST US
    From: Ross Alexander <karbath1@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Re: centersection flop
    The pietenpolis one big air brake! Just chop the power and see how quick it comes down! Ross in Orangeville, canada=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________ _____________=0A=0A=0A _______________________________________________ ___________________=0AConnect with friends from any web browser - no downlo ad required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http:/ /ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php


    Message 22


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    Time: 09:19:12 AM PST US
    From: Dave Aldrich <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>
    Subject: Re: one/three piece wing
    I plan on doing the same thing and am interested in the replies. My current plan is to laminate horizontal layers, with scarf joints overlapped in the center, reinforced with plywood. Center section will be 3 ft wide to accommodate a slightly larger gas tank. Dave Aldrich


    Message 23


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    Time: 09:20:51 AM PST US
    From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: one/three piece wing
    Dallas I have built both the one and three piece wings. Next time it will be a one piece. It is easy to transport on a roof rack on the pick up truck, takes less time to build and is easier to set up and balance. Just my opinion. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dallas To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: one/three piece wing Hey guys, Appreciate the response on the wing dilemma. Just to answer a few questions; space is not a problem. I fortunately have an old WW II hanger for a work shop (in the back) so I've got plenty of room. I work nights at the airport and I work on the Piet at night at work. Just a perk of flying medevac at night with your base next to the hanger. So I guess I'm a night owl. It appears that most choose the three piece wing due to space issues but I didn't know if there were some other advantages besides the fact that you can trailer it easier. I'm planning on the one piece wing unless someone can convince me otherwise. Of course, when I get to the spar scarf issues, I may change my mind. Anyhoo, thanks for the input. Looking forward to the endeavor! Dallas


    Message 24


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    Time: 09:49:31 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Push/pull linkage size/type
    I am now thinking of using the "tubes" for the entire tail control linkage. - What would be an appropriate diameter/wall thickness/material tube to u se?- I would imagine I will take a weight penalty over cables and pulleys ....maybe?-


    Message 25


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    Time: 10:21:14 AM PST US
    From: Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov
    Subject: Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 26


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    Time: 10:41:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com>
    Doug, I think you are referring to my post about Poplar. The source was the 1942 War Departments Aircraft Woodwork manual TM 1-414. It does mention no engineering changes are needed for substituting with Poplar. Generally, I believe, 43.13 should be considered to supersede TM 1-414. As an example, TM1-414 specifies 10:1 slope for spar scarf joints and we all know the current version of 43.13 specifies 15:1. Personally (this is just my personal opinion)- for the purposes of the Pietenpol, Poplar can be considered as a substitute for Spruce. Of course, you still have to apply proper selection and building techniques. As someone mentions the US forestry service has a lot of data on this that can be acquired by searching. Thanks Ameet Savant Omaha, NE On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:15 AM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote: > Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that > Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find > it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states > that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and > shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever said > this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Doug > Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for > beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go > figure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some > supporting documentation. > > Doug Dever > In beautiful Stow Ohio > >


    Message 27


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    Time: 10:45:10 AM PST US
    From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    Ryan Mueller wrote: > As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar: > > 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct > substitute for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly > reduced strength properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting > capacity. Gluing satisfactory." > > The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is: > "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and > shear." They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet. Not to make trouble, but on the other hand the Piet is massively overbuilt. I have heard of people reducing the cross section of the longerons and other structural members (other than the spar) and have never heard that they'd gotten into trouble by doing so. For this aircraft, poplar may well be a direct replacement for spruce. Not that I have done the arithmetic. That low shock resistance would worry me a little for the spar, though. Owen


    Message 28


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    Time: 11:11:44 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Push/pull linkage size/type
    Michael, I don't have that info at my fingertips, but consider that you may want to thread the ends for the Aurora bearings. Pick an appropriate ID and wall thickness based on the bearings you choose. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Push/pull linkage size/type I am now thinking of using the "tubes" for the entire tail control linkage. What would be an appropriate diameter/wall thickness/material tube to use? I would imagine I will take a weight penalty over cables and pulleys...maybe?


    Message 29


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    Time: 11:11:45 AM PST US
    Subject: 3-piece wing fairings
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Gary, What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback... That aside, have you seen this method? http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_17 4 .JPG&PhotoID=3856 It doesn't have aluminum fairings, therefore no need to attach the fairings (because they aren't there). Of course, it means modifying the wing attachment fittings, since the connections have to be accessed from inside the centersection. Definitely more complicated, but nice and clean. And it's been done, so we know it's possible. But if you're going the traditional (plans) route, I'd just double up on the 1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way you've got 1/8" of plywood to screw into, which should give you enough "bite" for the little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in place. Bill C. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings All, I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback...it may have been lost in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a good way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are Tinnermans the only best way to go? Gary Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you attaching the aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16" x 2" plywood, which will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide an attach for the fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down...)


    Message 30


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    Time: 11:12:37 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com>
    That is a misinterpretation. Please refer to the attachment it clearly shows that Poplar is stronger in compression and shear than Spruce. On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote: > As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar: > > 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct substitute > for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength > properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing > satisfactory." > > The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is: > "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and shear." > They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet. > > > Ryan > >


    Message 31


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    Time: 11:22:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com>
    I think I typed this in a hurry- (needed to get back to work... still do!) Please see table 2 in the document I am referring attached to the previous email. Basically, Spruce is better in compression (maybe slightly) than Poplar. For all other properties in the table, Poplar wins out. Thanks Ameet On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com> wrote: > That is a misinterpretation. Please refer to the attachment it clearly > shows that Poplar is stronger in compression and shear than Spruce. > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote: > >> As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar: >> >> 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct substitute >> for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength >> properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing >> satisfactory." >> >> The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is: >> "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and shear." >> They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet. >> >> >> Ryan >> >>


    Message 32


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    Time: 11:29:01 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: 3-piece wing fairings
    I know, I know.that's what happens when I wake up early and drink too much coffee. I have seen the No-Fairing approach (on Greg & Dale's Piet) and actually prefer it. At the time of starting my center section I was in the Get Building and Quit Thinking About It mode. I went with the plans in hand and am no condemned to fairings. As always, I value your input. That may be the only viable choice, and certainly easy. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings Gary, What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback... That aside, have you seen this method? http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.JPG <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.JP G&PhotoID=3856> &PhotoID=3856 It doesn't have aluminum fairings, therefore no need to attach the fairings (because they aren't there). Of course, it means modifying the wing attachment fittings, since the connections have to be accessed from inside the centersection. Definitely more complicated, but nice and clean. And it's been done, so we know it's possible. But if you're going the traditional (plans) route, I'd just double up on the 1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way you've got 1/8" of plywood to screw into, which should give you enough "bite" for the little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in place. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings All, I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback.it may have been lost in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a good way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are Tinnermans the only best way to go? Gary Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you attaching the aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16" x 2" plywood, which will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide an attach for the fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.)


    Message 33


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    Time: 12:04:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Ameet, I was referencing the information found in ANC-18 'Design of Wood Aircraft Structures, pages 21 and 22, Table 2-6 'Strength values of various woods, based on 15 percent moisture content, to be used in design of aircraft for use in CONUS'. In this table, Poplar is weaker than Sitka Spruce in all but one instance (more in some ways than others), that of Tension - Strength Perpendicular to Grain..... Ryan On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com> wrote: > I think I typed this in a hurry- (needed to get back to work... still do!) > Please see table 2 in the document I am referring attached to the previous > email. Basically, Spruce is better in compression (maybe slightly) than > Poplar. For all other properties in the table, Poplar wins out. > > Thanks > Ameet > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@gmail.com>wrote: > >> That is a misinterpretation. Please refer to the attachment it clearly >> shows that Poplar is stronger in compression and shear than Spruce. >> >> On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> As you mentioned, AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar: >>> >>> 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct substitute >>> for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength >>> properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing >>> satisfactory." >>> >>> The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is: >>> "Slightly less than spruce, except in compression (crushing) and shear." >>> They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet. >>> >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>> > * > > > * > >


    Message 34


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    Time: 12:13:30 PM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Poplar
    I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce an d we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4 lami nated spars. I'd have to do some math=2C but 1" poplar might be a direct r eplacement for 3/4 spruce. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Date: Mon=2C 5 Oct 2009 13:44:01 -0400 > From: owen5819@comcast.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar > > > Ryan Mueller wrote: > > As you mentioned=2C AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar: > > > > 'Excellent working qualities. *Should not be used as a direct > > substitute for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly > > reduced strength properties.* Somewhat low in shock-resisting > > capacity. Gluing satisfactory." > > > > The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is: > > "Slightly less than spruce=2C except in compression (crushing) and > > shear." They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet. > > Not to make trouble=2C but on the other hand the Piet is massively > overbuilt. I have heard of people reducing the cross section of the > longerons and other structural members (other than the spar) and have > never heard that they'd gotten into trouble by doing so. For this > aircraft=2C poplar may well be a direct replacement for spruce. Not that I > have done the arithmetic. That low shock resistance would worry me a > little for the spar=2C though. > > Owen > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.=0A


    Message 35


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    Time: 12:24:41 PM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Poplar
    Thanks Ameet you were the one and that was the publication mentioned. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar From: ameetsavant@gmail.com Doug=2C I think you are referring to my post about Poplar. The source was the 1942 War Departments Aircraft Woodwork manual TM 1-414. It does mention no engin eering changes are needed for substituting with Poplar. Generally=2C I believe=2C 43.13 should be considered to supersede TM 1-414. As an example=2C TM1-414 specifies 10:1 slope for spar scarf joints and we all know the current version of 43.13 specifies 15:1. Personally (this is just my personal opinion)- for the purposes of the Piet enpol=2C Poplar can be considered as a substitute for Spruce. Of course=2C you still have to apply proper selection and building techniques. As someone mentions the US forestry service has a lot of data on this that can be acquired by searching. Thanks Ameet Savant Omaha=2C NE On Mon=2C Oct 5=2C 2009 at 4:15 AM=2C Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.c om> wrote: Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that Y ellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could find i t in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states tha t it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength and sh ock resistance. I know it's properties are similar=2C but If who ever said this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good Do ug Fir is Impossible to get locally=2C but I found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all=2C it's a tulip tree. Go fig ure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some support ing documentation. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A


    Message 36


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    Time: 12:32:31 PM PST US
    Subject: CABLE TENSION?
    From: "TOPGUN" <rmdinfo@lakefield.net>
    I am in the process of tensioning my wing drag wires and i would like to tension them using a tensioner instead of a "tone" i searched the archives and found a tensioner you can make from macs machine. Does anyone know the proper tension in pounds for these cables? 10-20-30-40?? I used 1/8" 7x19 stainless cable. Any help would be appreciated. It seems you could keep tightening them until something breaks. Thanks Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266654#266654


    Message 37


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    Time: 12:44:13 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Piets near Livermore CA?
    I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get up to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there. Anyway, anyone in the area? Jim Markle....


    Message 38


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    Time: 12:44:45 PM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Poplar
    That was what I remembered reading. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar From: ameetsavant@gmail.com That is a misinterpretation. Please refer to the attachment it clearly show s that Poplar is stronger in compression and shear than Spruce. On Mon=2C Oct 5=2C 2009 at 7:33 AM=2C Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> w rote: As you mentioned=2C AC43.13 is pretty clear about Yellow Poplar: 'Excellent working qualities. Should not be used as a direct substitute for spruce without carefully accounting for slightly reduced strength properti es. Somewhat low in shock-resisting capacity. Gluing satisfactory." The strength properties note that it's strength compared to spruce is: "Sli ghtly less than spruce=2C except in compression (crushing) and shear." They mean that in compression and shear it is even weaker yet. Ryan =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.=0A


    Message 39


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    Time: 12:46:52 PM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: 3-piece wing fairings
    Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap method. The fittings are basically the same below the wing=2C just repositioned. I'm considering ordering them. But=2C I hesitate to deviate much from the plans. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings From: eng@canadianrogers.com Gary=2C What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback... That aside=2C have you seen this method? http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174. JPG&PhotoID=3856 It doesn't have aluminum fairings=2C therefore no need to attach the fairin gs (because they aren't there). Of course=2C it means modifying the wing at tachment fittings=2C since the connections have to be accessed from inside the centersection. Definitely more complicated=2C but nice and clean. And i t's been done=2C so we know it's possible. But if you're going the traditional (plans) route=2C I'd just double up on the 1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way you've got 1/8" of plywood to screw into=2C which should give you enough "bite" fo r the little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in place. Bill C. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday=2C October 05=2C 2009 10:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings All=2C I sent this out on Saturday=2C but got no feedback=85it may have been lost in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a goo d way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are Tinn ermans the only best way to go? Gary Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing like Larry Williams (a very nice touch)=2C how are some of you attaching th e aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16=94 x 2=94 plywood=2C which will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib=2C and provide an attach for t he fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws. Gary Boothe Cool=2C Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion=2C mounted Tail done=2C Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down=85) =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.=0A


    Message 40


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    Time: 12:47:21 PM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Push/pull linkage size/type
    Thanks Gary. I saw the bearings in the pictures on a website and was trying to figure out the OD you used. Looks to be about 3/8" or so. --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Push/pull linkage size/type Michael, =C2- I don=99t have that info at my fingertips, but consider that you may want to thread the ends for the Aurora bearings. Pick an appropriate ID and wall thickness based on the bearings you choose. =C2- Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear (15 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Push/pull linkage size/type =C2- I am now thinking of using the "tubes" for the entire tail control linkage. =C2- What would be an appropriate diameter/wall thickness/material tube t o use?=C2- I would imagine I will take a weight penalty over cables and p ulleys...maybe?=C2- =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet enpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-


    Message 41


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    Time: 01:18:05 PM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Piets near my travels
    I will be arriving Portland Oregon Monday 10/12 leaving 10/14 evening for Sacramento Ca for one 2 nights traveling by car to and from Stockton Ca then out on Friday morning Sacramento to Baltimore. I would enjoy visiting Piets in process building and or flying Piets for meet greet photos and brew, if anyone is interested please advise. Thanks John Junior Ambassador and Special Assistant to Ambassador and Secretary of Piet, Jim Markle In a message dated 10/5/2009 3:44:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com> I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get up to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there. Anyway, anyone in the area? Jim Markle....


    Message 42


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    Time: 01:28:49 PM PST US
    From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: 3-piece wing fairings
    Doug Dever wrote: > Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap > method. The fittings are basically the same below the wing, just > repositioned. I'm considering ordering them. But, I hesitate to > deviate much from the plans. For whatever it is worth, I saw Keri Anne's Piet something like 20 years ago and considered it close to a masterpiece. I probably would not use the passenger door, just because it adds weight, but everything else looked great. The friend I was with at the time agreed, and his opinion is worth a more than mine--mechanical engineer, ex-crop duster and military back-seater, EAA Tech Councilor, built one plane and had rebuilt around a dozen at that point. If Keri Anne's plane has not executed an Icarus landing yet, there should not be much to worry about. Owen


    Message 43


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    Time: 01:58:37 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Piets near Livermore CA?
    Jim, So close, but so far! I'm stuck in Sacramento all week... About an hour south of Livermore is Charlie Miller's very excellent Piet. Charlie is a great guy, and for a case of wine you could probably talk him into opening his hanger with the Piet and a nice Stinson 108! I think Charlie monitors this list, but here's his email: Charles.Miller@palm.com. He lives in Morgan Hill and flies out of Frazier Lake Airpark (1C9). BTW - I'm kidding about the wine... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piets near Livermore CA? I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get up to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there. Anyway, anyone in the area? Jim Markle....


    Message 44


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    Time: 02:13:53 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Piets near my travels
    John, Too bad! I live 1 hour east of Sacramento, but am condemned to stay in town all week, entertaining business Mucky-muks! I would have enjoyed meeting you! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piets near my travels I will be arriving Portland Oregon Monday 10/12 leaving 10/14 evening for Sacramento Ca for one 2 nights traveling by car to and from Stockton Ca then out on Friday morning Sacramento to Baltimore. I would enjoy visiting Piets in process building and or flying Piets for meet greet photos and brew, if anyone is interested please advise. Thanks John Junior Ambassador and Special Assistant to Ambassador and Secretary of Piet, Jim Markle In a message dated 10/5/2009 3:44:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get up to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there. Anyway, anyone in the area? Jim ========================= Use the ties Day ================================================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================================================ - List Contribution Web Site sp; ==================================================


    Message 45


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    Time: 02:14:23 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Good stuff....
    http://www.airventure.org/news/2009/090728_cup_racer.html


    Message 46


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    Time: 02:15:54 PM PST US
    Subject: 3-piece wing fairings
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    >From the photos I've seen of NX311GP, the workmanship appeared to be outstanding. Looked pretty cool. I seem to recall reading that it was quite heavy, but I can't find anything to back that up, so that might be untrue. Sounds like it did have a mishap on landing, and flipped over. And then it was put up for sale. http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Keri-Anns_Pietenpol_pics_1.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings Doug Dever wrote: > Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap > method. The fittings are basically the same below the wing, just > repositioned. I'm considering ordering them. But, I hesitate to > deviate much from the plans. For whatever it is worth, I saw Keri Anne's Piet something like 20 years ago and considered it close to a masterpiece. I probably would not use the passenger door, just because it adds weight, but everything else looked great. The friend I was with at the time agreed, and his opinion is worth a more than mine--mechanical engineer, ex-crop duster and military back-seater, EAA Tech Councilor, built one plane and had rebuilt around a dozen at that point. If Keri Anne's plane has not executed an Icarus landing yet, there should not be much to worry about. Owen


    Message 47


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    Time: 02:17:02 PM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Piets near my travels
    Thanks I would have enjoyed it too, no everyone can build in Poplar! Maybe next time? John In a message dated 10/5/2009 5:14:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gboothe5@comcast.net writes: John, Too bad! I live 1 hour east of Sacramento, but am condemned to stay in town all week, entertaining business Mucky-muks! I would have enjoyed mee ting you! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down) Do not archive ____________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC @aol.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 1:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piets near my travels I will be arriving Portland Oregon Monday 10/12 leaving 10/14 evening for Sacramento Ca for one 2 nights traveling by car to and from Stockton Ca then out on Friday morning Sacramento to Baltimore. I would enjoy visiting Piets in process building and or flying Piets for meet greet photos and brew, if anyone is interested please advise. Thanks John Junior Ambassador and Special Assistant to Ambassador and Secretary of Piet, Jim Markle In a message dated 10/5/2009 3:44:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_markle@mindspring.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com> I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get up to see the gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there. Anyway, anyone in the area? Jim Use the ties Day ================= ====== - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ====================== = - List Contribution Web Site sp; http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============


    Message 48


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    Time: 02:50:55 PM PST US
    Subject: Poplar
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Doug, I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16". I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the longerons of "the Last Original", and found them to be 7/8" wide x 1" high Spruce. Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new, and, if built properly, are as strong as, if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well, actually, they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue). The two advantages of a laminated spar are: 1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection of the quality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small section). 2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality (knots, etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore, from two "spars" that have small defects that might otherwise render them both unsuitable for use as spars can have the questionable areas cut away, and the good parts put together to make one good spar. One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor required to build them. Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints (obviously extra vigilance required when laying up the glue joints for a spar). Bill C. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce and we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4 laminated spars. I'd have to do some math, but 1" poplar might be a direct replacement for 3/4 spruce. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio


    Message 49


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    Time: 03:24:22 PM PST US
    From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
    Subject: shipping & handling charges
    Seeing as most of the parts are imported from the US, I don't even want to think about how much the shipping was!!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Tuesday, 6 October 2009 1:03 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: shipping & handling charges Ted, I did not keep track of my shipping expenses on the engine parts, but the fuselage is pretty much put together, tail surfaces and center section. I have wing spars and enough wood to build all the ribs..and I'm sitting at about 7% for Shipping & Handling. Note that I bought almost all my wood locally. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TGSTONE236@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping & handling charges Are most of you keeping tabs on your shipping and handling charges? I must be ordering too much or too often. To date I have over $850.00 in charges and still don't how much more I'll spend. I can tell you now mine will not be the cheapest built Piet on the list. I have all the big ticket items,ceconite, paint, struts,forks, wings done(not covered), "C" section done (covered)with fuel tank, corvair engine on stand awaiting WW parts to finish, fuselage on straight axle with spoke wheels and PF Beck's copied brake system. It looks like the shipping and handling cost are going to run at least 10% of the building cost.Some of these cost are my on doings as I don't wait to let a large need list build up as I want to finish the project I am on at the time and not jump from project to project. Just curious as to how you handle your Piet building and parts buying. Ted Stone Corvair Piet Wilmington,NC http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 50


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    Time: 03:39:55 PM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Poplar
    Should have been 15/16=2C but I stand corrected at 7/8. Anyway my point wa s they were less than 1". Doing some SWAG engineering off the top of my he ad I would say that poplar would be OK. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar From: eng@canadianrogers.com Doug=2C I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16". I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the longerons of "the Last Original"=2C and found them to be 7/8" wide x 1" high Spruce. Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new=2C and=2C if built properly=2C are a s strong as=2C if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well=2C actuall y=2C they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue). The two advantages of a laminated spar are: 1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection of the qu ality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small section). 2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality (knots =2C etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore=2C from two " spars" that have small defects that might otherwise render them both unsuit able for use as spars can have the questionable areas cut away=2C and the g ood parts put together to make one good spar. One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor required to build them. Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints (obviously extr a vigilance required when laying up the glue joints for a spar). Bill C. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever Sent: Monday=2C October 05=2C 2009 3:13 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce an d we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4 lami nated spars. I'd have to do some math=2C but 1" poplar might be a direct r eplacement for 3/4 spruce. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.=0A


    Message 51


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    Time: 05:06:35 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Plywood web spar
    From: John Fay <jfay1950@gmail.com>
    On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net> wrote: > > Among other comments, Robert Ray wrote: > >> ... for my project I will however use Baltic >> birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains >> as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both >> sides in an I beam fashion, the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch, ... >> > > That should work wonderfully, right up until the plywood delaminates. > Baltic birch ply is high quality stuff, but nearly everything you'll find in > the U.S. is interior grade and much less water resistant than aircraft or > marine ply. > __________________________________________________________________________ > Owen, My partner and I are using Baltic birch for the 1/8" gussets on the fuselage and empennage. Our supplier checked and said it was made with an exterior glue. I do not recall the name of the glue but have it recorded somewhere in my records. I have bought two different batches, and tested each by soaking. After 5 or 6 weeks of soaking, no delamination occurred. I could not get any of it to separate. We are using the European GL 2 (?) 5 ply, 1/8" equivalent for the fuselage side ply. Both resisted any delamination from soaking, but when boiled, the GL 2 remained solid, but the Baltic birch came apart quickly in boiling water. I know that T-88 will also come apart when heated, so I figured that since I was using T-88 for the glue joints, a similar type of glue in the plywood would not be a problem. John Fay in Peoria


    Message 52


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    Time: 05:43:21 PM PST US
    From: Ross Alexander <karbath1@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams...
    Can you describe this a little further? How did you attach the cannister to the mike?=0A=0ARoss in Orangeville, Ontario, Canada 85 hp Piet=0A=0A=0A_ _______________________________=0AFrom: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountyc able.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, October 4, 200 9 7:29:10 PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gu lfstreams...=0A=0A =0ASpeaking of radios.....A while back, when I was =0Aha ving problems being understood on the radio because of all the wind noise, =0Asomeone on this list suggested I put a 35mm film canister, with a small hole, =0Aover the mike. I'm here to tell you it works great! Thanks to wh =================0A=0A=0A ____________ ______________________________________________________=0AMake your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer=AE 8. Optimized f or Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexp lorer/


    Message 53


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    Time: 05:49:22 PM PST US
    From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
    Subject: Re: translating Jorge's post- #1
    Hi dear Piets, well, after to let the piet for almost two years now i have time for work on it, i will clean all (to many dust) ,finish the fuel tank and install it... Jorge Donde estas ubicado? yo estoy en la Ciudad de Mexico, tengo ya algunos aos trabajando en mi Pietenpol... Saludos Javier Cruz pd. good translation Oscar


    Message 54


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    Time: 05:57:45 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: translating Jorge's post- #1
    Welcome back Javier! By the way, I'm almost out of the supplies you left when you came for a visit...please bring more asap!!! :-) Good to see you back. I've been doing some "cleaning" and "dusting" lately myself! jm -----Original Message----- >From: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx> >Sent: Oct 5, 2009 8:49 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1 > > >Hi dear Piets, well, after to let the piet for almost two years now i have >time for work on it, i will clean all (to many dust) ,finish the fuel tank >and install it... > > Jorge >Donde estas ubicado? yo estoy en la Ciudad de Mexico, tengo ya algunos aos >trabajando en mi Pietenpol... > >Saludos >Javier Cruz > >pd. good translation Oscar > >


    Message 55


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    Time: 06:30:55 PM PST US
    From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: CABLE TENSION?
    Chris Tension by ear is much more accurate than any gauge. Tighten slowly and evenly until you hear a "FWANG" Don't keep tightening till you start hearing any kind of tone like a PING. It's really pretty easy. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TOPGUN" <rmdinfo@lakefield.net> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: CABLE TENSION? > > I am in the process of tensioning my wing drag wires and i would like to > tension them using a tensioner instead of a "tone" i searched the archives > and found a tensioner you can make from macs machine. Does anyone know the > proper tension in pounds for these cables? 10-20-30-40?? I used 1/8" 7x19 > stainless cable. Any help would be appreciated. It seems you could keep > tightening them until something breaks. Thanks > > Chris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266654#266654 > > >


    Message 56


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    Time: 06:39:22 PM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: Good stuff....
    Jim, You know that's my plane now, right? In the BPA newsletter, Doc suggested that it should be called the Tortoise. Maybe I should name 'er Yertle the Turtle or Churchy LaFemme. ;-) Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.


    Message 57


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    Time: 06:39:44 PM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: CABLE TENSION?
    Chris, I seem to recall reading something like 140 lbs... search the archives for the term 'tensiometer' in the subject line. Cheers, Dan TOPGUN wrote: > > I am in the process of tensioning my wing drag wires and i would like to tension them using a tensioner instead of a "tone" i searched the archives and found a tensioner you can make from macs machine. Does anyone know the proper tension in pounds for these cables? 10-20-30-40?? I used 1/8" 7x19 stainless cable. Any help would be appreciated. It seems you could keep tightening them until something breaks. Thanks > > Chris > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266654#266654 > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.


    Message 58


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    Time: 06:51:36 PM PST US
    From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>
    Subject: Re: translating Jorge's post- #1
    Great to read you again Jim... how are you..? and off course Jim ... just waiting for a trip to Oklahoma


    Message 59


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    Time: 06:54:14 PM PST US
    From: Michael.D.Cuy@nasa.gov
    Subject: Watch Drilling Holes in Plexiglas
    --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---


    Message 60


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    Time: 06:58:47 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Good stuff....
    I vote for Churchy LaFemme, but then I was always a big Pogo fan. Jack Phillips NX899JP Icarus Plummet (named by Churchy LeFemme) Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Good stuff.... Jim, You know that's my plane now, right? In the BPA newsletter, Doc suggested that it should be called the Tortoise. Maybe I should name 'er Yertle the Turtle or Churchy LaFemme. ;-) Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.


    Message 61


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    Time: 07:34:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    It's strength is the same it's shock resistance difference is so small that it shouldn't be a problem, there's a test chart on the freight harbor's catalog where they drop a hammer weight and shock test different woods, I don't remember the exact numbers I don't have it here with me but the difference is like the Spruce fails when hammer is dropped from 41 inches and the poplar fails at 40 inches. Another advantage that is only slight is poplar is slightly more perishable. There is also an independent test where a person test both woods along with pine hemlock etc and he test conclude the poplar is stronger than spruce, you'll have to search and find it but the web site is out there, I also don't think that the nail holding ability of poplar isn't quite as good. I have seen older houses that were built out of poplar still standing and the newer ones blown away after a tornado come through. Of course the older house was boxed in with diagonal boards of poplar. Where as the new ones had particule board. Russell On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote: > Should have been 15/16, but I stand corrected at 7/8. Anyway my point was > they were less than 1". Doing some SWAG engineering off the top of my > head I would say that poplar would be OK. > > Doug Dever > In beautiful Stow Ohio > > > ------------------------------ > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:50:13 -0400 > From: eng@canadianrogers.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Doug, > > I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16". > I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the longerons > of "the Last Original", and found them to be 7/8" wide x 1" high Spruce. > > Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new, and, if built properly, are as > strong as, if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well, actually, > they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue). > The two advantages of a laminated spar are: > 1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection of the > quality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small section). > 2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality (knots, > etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore, from two "spars" > that have small defects that might otherwise render them both unsuitable for > use as spars can have the questionable areas cut away, and the good parts > put together to make one good spar. > > One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor required > to build them. > Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints (obviously > extra vigilance required when laying up the glue joints for a spar). > > Bill C. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Doug Dever > *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2009 3:13 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar > > I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce > and we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4 > laminated spars. I'd have to do some math, but 1" poplar might be a direct > replacement for 3/4 spruce. > > Doug Dever > In beautiful Stow Ohio > > > * > > st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > ------------------------------ > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. > > > * > > * > >


    Message 62


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    Time: 07:36:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    Tulip tree, tulip poplar and yellow poplar are all the same tree. On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote: > It's strength is the same it's shock resistance difference is so small > that it shouldn't be a problem, there's a test chart on the freight > harbor's > catalog where they drop a hammer weight and shock test different > woods, I don't remember the exact numbers I don't have it here with > me but the difference is like the Spruce fails when hammer is dropped > from 41 inches and the poplar fails at 40 inches. > Another advantage that is only slight is poplar is slightly > more perishable. > There is also an independent test where a person test both woods > along with pine hemlock etc and he test conclude the poplar is stronger > than spruce, you'll have to search and find it but the web site is out > there, > I also don't think that the nail holding ability of poplar isn't quite as > good. > I have seen older houses that were built out of poplar still standing > and the newer ones blown away after a tornado come through. > Of course the older house was boxed in with diagonal boards of poplar. > Where as the new ones had particule board. > > > Russell > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote: > >> Should have been 15/16, but I stand corrected at 7/8. Anyway my point was >> they were less than 1". Doing some SWAG engineering off the top of my >> head I would say that poplar would be OK. >> >> Doug Dever >> In beautiful Stow Ohio >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar >> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:50:13 -0400 >> From: eng@canadianrogers.com >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> Doug, >> >> I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16". >> I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the >> longerons of "the Last Original", and found them to be 7/8" wide x 1" high >> Spruce. >> >> Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new, and, if built properly, are as >> strong as, if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well, actually, >> they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue). >> The two advantages of a laminated spar are: >> 1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection of the >> quality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small section). >> 2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality >> (knots, etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore, from two >> "spars" that have small defects that might otherwise render them both >> unsuitable for use as spars can have the questionable areas cut away, and >> the good parts put together to make one good spar. >> >> One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor required >> to build them. >> Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints (obviously >> extra vigilance required when laying up the glue joints for a spar). >> >> Bill C. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Doug Dever >> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2009 3:13 PM >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar >> >> I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 spruce >> and we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were built with 3/4 >> laminated spars. I'd have to do some math, but 1" poplar might be a direct >> replacement for 3/4 spruce. >> >> Doug Dever >> In beautiful Stow Ohio >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up >> now. >> >> * >> >> * >> >> >


    Message 63


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    Time: 08:04:01 PM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: translating Jorge's post- #1
    Jim: exactly which supplies are you running low on? I happen to have 750ml of tequila Sauza Hornitos gold- reposado, and it sips pretty nicely. I especially like it when the flask is at about 45-50F. Oops... I think I should be talking about mixing T88... Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not archive


    Message 64


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    Time: 08:08:59 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: 3-piece wing fairings
    What I have done is divide the distance between panels and extend the ply covering to that point. I will do the same with the wing panels. There will be a small gap, maybe 1/8" that I will fill with a rubber T section. Look above the wing attach fitting and you will see the extension. the T section is kinda like the depiction below. Stuffed into the gap the wedgies hold it in place and the "D" covers the gap. <-<-D Clif Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap method. The fittings are basically the same below the wing, just repositioned. I'm considering ordering them. But, I hesitate to deviate much from the plans. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 13:46:30 -0400 From: eng@canadianrogers.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Gary, What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback... That aside, have you seen this method? http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_17 4.JPG&PhotoID=3856 It doesn't have aluminum fairings, therefore no need to attach the fairings (because they aren't there). Of course, it means modifying the wing attachment fittings, since the connections have to be accessed from inside the centersection. Definitely more complicated, but nice and clean. And it's been done, so we know it's possible. But if you're going the traditional (plans) route, I'd just double up on the 1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way you've got 1/8" of plywood to screw into, which should give you enough "bite" for the little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in place. Bill C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:24 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings All, I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback=85it may have been lost in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a good way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are Tinnermans the only best way to go? Gary Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you attaching the aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16=94 x 2=94 plywood, which will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide an attach for the fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down=85) st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/05/09 18:23:00


    Message 65


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    Time: 08:12:28 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Don Emch-- brilliant---- throttle setup
    I did mine like the plans show. It seems to be at about the right height for me to use my thigh as an arm rest. The rod is just a 1/4" steel rod that is threaded at each end with a 1/4-28 die. There is no lever in the front cockpit, it just connects to a Bowden cable. When a front passenger is flying they just grab onto the rod and control the throttle that way. I was concerned about having a lever up there that could get caught on a passenger's clothing, jacket or arm and could limit my use of it. It could happen and they might not even know they are hung up on it. I'm very leary of having stuff up front that can be disturbed by unknowing passengers. This is simply brilliant. I think Don talked with Frank Pavliga (I'm making an assumption here) about Frank's extra large XXL passenger he took up in Sky Gypsy and on landing Frank could NOT throttle back because the knob in the front seat was binding on his XXL passenger's winter coat and the XXXL passenger didn't know it !!!! Frank was able to land safely but cutting the mag switch many times on final approach to descend and land. (like the old WWI blip-switches where you had either full power or a windmilling propeller) Thank God that Frank's throttle did not get stuck on this passenger's coat when attempting say a go around on a botched landing..... You take yer chances. Mike C.


    Message 66


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    Time: 08:47:16 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: translating Jorge's post- #1
    hehehehe, well, "it sips pretty nicely" is close...this is special beyond words. I could probably afford 750ml of T88...but not the gift Javier brought to my home when he visited. I have saved it for special occasions only. And I always get the same response...."don't you DARE mix THIS in a Marguerita!!!" In fact, I have JUST enough left for a sip when Mark and John visit later this month... Actually, I have this little tradition. There is an unopened bottle of Sierra beer on a shelf in my workshop. That bottle was given to me on one of my first visits with the Piet builders in NorCal. There's also an unopened bottle of Corona next to it that I received from Sterling when I signed up as a member in good standing of the Texas Air Camper Organization (TACO) several years ago. Both are very special to me and will remain unopened. I look at them and just burst with pride that I get to hang out with such a great bunch of people. Neither are worth much for drinking at this point but still VERY special to me. Life is good.... please, do not archive any of my silly yammering.... To at least make this even a tiny bit "building a Pietenpol" related...last weekend I finally figured out my fuel line/fuel valve setup, thanks to Oscar. The valve attaches directly to the bottom of the tank. From the valve there's a flexible hose over to where the fuel line runs down the inside of the laminated maple/mahoghany cabane. In case something happens and the cabanes moves somehow, the flexible fuel line will....flex. Someone mentioned recently that we can learn a lesson from William Wynne's horrible accident. I learned, thank you very much. -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> >Sent: Oct 5, 2009 8:01 PM >To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1 > > > >Jim: exactly which supplies are you running low on? >I happen to have 750ml of tequila Sauza Hornitos gold- >reposado, and it sips pretty nicely. I especially like >it when the flask is at about 45-50F. > >Oops... I think I should be talking about mixing T88... > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >do not archive > >


    Message 67


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    Time: 09:11:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: CABLE TENSION?
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    I'm getting ready to do this soon too... can someone elaborate a bit more on the FWANG method? -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266738#266738


    Message 68


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    Time: 09:17:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Watch Drilling Holes in Plexiglas
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Love those videos. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266739#266739


    Message 69


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    Time: 09:28:16 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: 3-piece wing fairings
    Clif, Thanks for the picture! You lost me with the "rubber T section" and "the wedgies", though. You say "wedgy" and my mind goes to a completely different place! Still, I think I get the picture that you have closed off the gap by extending the 1/16" plywood in to the area of the afore mentioned gap..I like that! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings What I have done is divide the distance between panels and extend the ply covering to that point. I will do the same with the wing panels. There will be a small gap, maybe 1/8" that I will fill with a rubber T section. Look above the wing attach fitting and you will see the extension. the T section is kinda like the depiction below. Stuffed into the gap the wedgies hold it in place and the "D" covers the gap. <-<-D Clif Kerri Anne Price has engineering drawings available for the "no gap method. The fittings are basically the same below the wing, just repositioned. I'm considering ordering them. But, I hesitate to deviate much from the plans. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio _____ Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings From: eng@canadianrogers.com Gary, What's the world coming to? Two whole days with no feedback... That aside, have you seen this method? http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.JPG <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 070616_174.JP G&PhotoID=3856> &PhotoID=3856 It doesn't have aluminum fairings, therefore no need to attach the fairings (because they aren't there). Of course, it means modifying the wing attachment fittings, since the connections have to be accessed from inside the centersection. Definitely more complicated, but nice and clean. And it's been done, so we know it's possible. But if you're going the traditional (plans) route, I'd just double up on the 1/16" plywood strips (add a second layer underneath) - that way you've got 1/8" of plywood to screw into, which should give you enough "bite" for the little wood screws that will hold the fairing strips in place. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings All, I sent this out on Saturday, but got no feedback.it may have been lost in the flurry of weekend work/flying/other subjects. I am looking for a good way to attach the fairings between the wings and center section. Are Tinnermans the only best way to go? Gary Assuming that I do not want to attach my wing fairings with leather lacing like Larry Williams (a very nice touch), how are some of you attaching the aluminum fairing? The plans call for the 1/16" x 2" plywood, which will keep the fabric from sucking in the rib, and provide an attach for the fairing. But there must be a trick way of backing up the screws. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution _____ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ - Release Date: 10/05/09 18:23:00


    Message 70


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    Time: 09:45:46 PM PST US
    From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: 5 minutes
    you need writing Que not Qe --- On Sat, 10/3/09, ALAN LYSCARS <alyscars@myfairpoint.net> wrote: From: ALAN LYSCARS <alyscars@myfairpoint.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 5 minutes =0A=0A =0A =0A=0AQe??=0A-=0AAl=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A F rom: =0A jorge =0A lizarraga =0A To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A =0A Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:56 =0A PM=0A Subject: Re: Pietenpo l-List: 5 =0A minutes=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A oscar es pero que continues tanbien y disfrutan do tus =0A vuelos con tu piet yo estoy casi terminando toda la secci on de la cola y =0A boy ha empesar algunas partes de metal para los horns y attach for =0A cables te agradeseria mucho si me pudieras da r una idea mejor ge como =0A construir una vercion mejor dela palanc a de aselerador del gas (turttel) =0A asselerator ho algo asi estas son algunas fotos gracias de nuevo jorge =0A from hanford- y esper o cuando my piet este listo para volar poder =0A bisitar ha todoes u stedes tanks bery mauchs --- On Fri, =0A 10/2/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> =0Awro te: =0A From: =0A Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: =0A 5 minutes a <taildrags@hotmail.com> Dan; =0A excellent video.- It really captures the essence of a typical =0A Piet flight, or at least part of it. I notice that at least one =0A of your lift struts has a splice in it.- I also notice that =0A your airplane wants to make carb ice as readily as mine does =0A ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, =0A TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website =0A at http://www.flysquirrel.net --- =0A -------- =0A ------ =- - - - =0A - - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -=0A http://www.matronic s.com/atronics.com" bsp; =0A - - - - - - - -Matt Dra lle, List =0A Adontribution" =0A target="_blank">http:/ /www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A


    Message 71


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    Time: 10:09:33 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    A couple of connections in this one. Harrison Ford Tribute http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1184434145?bclid=1184431670&bctid=42883529001 -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266743#266743


    Message 72


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    Time: 11:13:53 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: 3-piece wing fairings
    Alright Gutterboy! :-) Maybe this will help. I've seen this stuff but can't remember where, exactly. I'll find when the time comes. Clif Clif, Thanks for the picture! You lost me with the "rubber T section" and "the wedgies", though. You say "wedgy" and my mind goes to a completely different place! Gary Boothe


    Message 73


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    Time: 11:47:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Poplar
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    I haven't seen any specs as to how many growth rings per inch I think the assumption that grain run out of 16-1 will work but the growth rings seem wider I know Spruce you have max and min rings, the spruce on Alaskan costal areas is to brittle to many growth rings. russ On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:14 AM, vman1922 <kkamp72@comcast.net> wrote: > > I see that Piper listed it as a substitute for the Cub- among other woods. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266543#266543 > >




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