---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/06/09: 51 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:11 AM - Re: Re: Poplar (Doug Dever) 2. 04:53 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Gary Boothe) 3. 05:09 AM - Re: Poplar (Kip and Beth Gardner) 4. 07:36 AM - Re: Re: CABLE TENSION? (Dick N.) 5. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: CABLE TENSION? (Jim Markle) 6. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: CABLE TENSION? (Richard Schreiber) 7. 08:01 AM - Re: Don Emch-- brilliant---- throttle setup (Don Emch) 8. 08:14 AM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (TOPGUN) 9. 08:47 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Owen Davies) 10. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: CABLE TENSION? (helspersew@aol.com) 11. 09:04 AM - CABLE TENSION? (Oscar Zuniga) 12. 09:16 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (Jim Markle) 13. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: CABLE TENSION? (Bill Church) 14. 09:49 AM - "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! (Dan Yocum) 15. 10:19 AM - Re: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! (Bill Church) 16. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: CABLE TENSION? (Jack) 17. 10:21 AM - Re: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! (Ryan Mueller) 18. 10:30 AM - Re: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! (Dave Abramson) 19. 10:30 AM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (TOPGUN) 20. 10:34 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (TOPGUN) 21. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: 3-piece wing fairings () 22. 11:20 AM - 3-piece wing fairing attach method (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 23. 11:21 AM - Re: CABLE TENSION? (Dan Yocum) 24. 11:21 AM - intercostals wing rib (stephen labash) 25. 11:40 AM - Re: 3-piece wing fairings (TOPGUN) 26. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: 3-piece wing fairings (John Hofmann) 27. 12:04 PM - Re: Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford (K5YAC) 28. 12:50 PM - toasting-- Jimmy Doolittle style (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 29. 01:05 PM - Re: intercostals wing rib (Tim Willis) 30. 01:55 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairing attach method (Jack Phillips) 31. 02:04 PM - Re: intercostals wing rib (Jack Phillips) 32. 02:10 PM - Re: intercostals wing rib (Bill Church) 33. 02:54 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairing attach method (David Paule) 34. 04:05 PM - How many flying with Riblett 612? (Dave and Connie) 35. 04:06 PM - Re: 3-piece wing fairing attach method (Gene Rambo) 36. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (Gene & Tammy) 37. 05:40 PM - Re: intercostals wing rib (Steve Glass) 38. 05:40 PM - Piet in WA (Ryan M) 39. 05:59 PM - Re: Baltic birch plywood (John Fay) 40. 06:52 PM - Re: How many flying with Riblett 612? (Robert Ray) 41. 07:24 PM - the cost of building (Oscar Zuniga) 42. 07:27 PM - Re: intercostals wing rib (Tim Willis) 43. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: No RPM drop on mag check?? (Dan Yocum) 44. 07:41 PM - Re: the cost of building (Doug Dever) 45. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Baltic birch plywood (shad bell) 46. 07:54 PM - Re: Re: Baltic birch plywood (Robert Ray) 47. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Baltic birch plywood (Bill Church) 48. 09:25 PM - Re: intercostals wing rib (K5YAC) 49. 10:48 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (jorge lizarraga) 50. 10:53 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (jorge lizarraga) 51. 11:10 PM - Re: Poplar;perfect (jorge lizarraga) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:35 AM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Poplar FAA lists min of 6/in Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Poplar From: rray032003@gmail.com I haven't seen any specs as to how many growth rings per inch I think the assumption that grain run out of 16-1 will work but the growth rings seem wider I know Spruce you have max and min rings=2C the spruce on Alaskan costal areas is to brittle to many growth rings. russ On Mon=2C Oct 5=2C 2009 at 7:14 AM=2C vman1922 wrote: I see that Piper listed it as a substitute for the Cub- among other woods. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266543#266543 s List Un/Subscription=2C www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com Matt Dralle=2C List Admin. ==== =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:02 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings "Aahh, now I see," said the blind man. Very interesting... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings Alright Gutterboy! :-) Maybe this will help. I've seen this stuff but can't remember where, exactly. I'll find when the time comes. Clif Clif, Thanks for the picture! You lost me with the "rubber T section" and "the wedgies", though. You say "wedgy" and my mind goes to a completely different place! Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:31 AM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar And not the same thing as what's generally referred to as "Western Poplar", which i believe is actually Aspen, a significantly inferior wood. Kip Gardner On Oct 5, 2009, at 10:35 PM, Robert Ray wrote: > Tulip tree, tulip poplar and yellow poplar are all the same tree. > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Robert Ray > wrote: > It's strength is the same it's shock resistance difference is so small > that it shouldn't be a problem, there's a test chart on the freight > harbor's > catalog where they drop a hammer weight and shock test different > woods, I don't remember the exact numbers I don't have it here with > me but the difference is like the Spruce fails when hammer is dropped > from 41 inches and the poplar fails at 40 inches. > Another advantage that is only slight is poplar is slightly more > perishable. > There is also an independent test where a person test both woods > along with pine hemlock etc and he test conclude the poplar is > stronger > than spruce, you'll have to search and find it but the web site is > out there, > I also don't think that the nail holding ability of poplar isn't > quite as good. > I have seen older houses that were built out of poplar still standing > and the newer ones blown away after a tornado come through. > Of course the older house was boxed in with diagonal boards of poplar. > Where as the new ones had particule board. > > > Russell > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Doug Dever > wrote: > Should have been 15/16, but I stand corrected at 7/8. Anyway my > point was they were less than 1". Doing some SWAG engineering off > the top of my head I would say that poplar would be OK. > > > Doug Dever > In beautiful Stow Ohio > > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:50:13 -0400 > From: eng@canadianrogers.com > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > Doug, > > I assume that was a typo. The longerons were definitely not 7/16". > I believe Dan Helsper posted to the list that he had measured the > longerons of "the Last Original", and found them to be 7/8" wide x > 1" high Spruce. > > Laminated Spruce spars are nothing new, and, if built properly, are > as strong as, if not stronger than a solid spar of Spruce. Well, > actually, they ARE solid spars of Spruce (held together with glue). > The two advantages of a laminated spar are: > 1. Using smaller sections of wood allows for better inspection > of the quality of the wood (harder to have hidden flaws in a small > section). > 2. It is possible to cut away sections with questionable quality > (knots, etc) without rejecting the whole piece of wood. Therefore, > from two "spars" that have small defects that might otherwise > render them both unsuitable for use as spars can have the > questionable areas cut away, and the good parts put together to > make one good spar. > > One big disadvantage of laminated spars is all the extra labor > required to build them. > Another concern is the reliance on the numerous glue joints > (obviously extra vigilance required when laying up the glue joints > for a spar). > > Bill C. > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Dever > Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 3:13 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar > > I have heard on "The Last Original" the spruce longerons are 7/16 > spruce and we all know that Mr Pietenpols last few aircraft were > built with 3/4 laminated spars. I'd have to do some math, but 1" > poplar might be a direct replacement for 3/4 spruce. > > Doug Dever > In beautiful Stow Ohio > > > st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Ge85/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign > up now. > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http:// > forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:54 AM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? Very easy. As you tighten the turnbuckles, pluck the wire like a guitar string. Cables of an equal length will have the same tone. The tighter you make it, the higher the pitch. There is no need to over tighten, it will only stress the wood. All you need is for the wing not to move and the tension reached when the cable makes the Fwang sound is tight enough. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? > > I'm getting ready to do this soon too... can someone elaborate a bit more > on the FWANG method? > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266738#266738 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:46 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? If you didn't read Mad Magazine in the 60's and 70's (I studied them as my primary life guide...)...you probably won't recognize these words..... -----Original Message----- >From: K5YAC >Sent: Oct 5, 2009 9:11 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? > > >I'm getting ready to do this soon too... can someone elaborate a bit more on the FWANG method? > >-------- >Mark - working on wings > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266738#266738 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:29 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? Pete Bowers in the plans for the fly baby says to tighten the cables as tight as you can with your fingers, then give the turnbuckle barrel one more turn. When I did this on my wings, I got a FWANG sound. My Tech Counselor said to tighten to no more than 40#. When I checked it with a tensionometer, thats what I had. Rick S. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Don Emch-- brilliant---- throttle setup From: "Don Emch" No, I had never heard that story about Frank. It sounds like he had to do a little quick thinking though! He always has some good stories. I've learned a lot from his experiences! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266777#266777 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? From: "TOPGUN" Thanks everybody! As i figured, i am overthinking this problem. I went ahead and made the tensioner this morning and i will check to see how many pounds it is after i get the "twang" sound. Being a machinist, i am very particular to exacting details........thats why when i put my wing together i couldn't fit a piece of paper between any of the joints.....wood is so much different than metal, i need to loosen up my personal tolerances. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266778#266778 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:14 AM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings Bill Church wrote: > Sounds like it did have a mishap on landing, and flipped over. And then > it was put up for sale. > http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Keri-Anns_Pietenpol_pics_1.html Sorry to hear that. Still, at least its feathers did not come off when the wax melted. Owen ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? From: helspersew@aol.com What, me worry? Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Jim Markle Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:49 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? If you didn't read Mad Magazine in the 60's and 70's (I studied them as my primary life guide...)...you probably won't recognize these words..... -----Original Message----- >From: K5YAC >Sent: Oct 5, 2009 9:11 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? > > >I'm getting ready to do this soon too... can someone elaborate a bit more on the FWANG method? > >-------- >Mark - working on wings > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266738#266738 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:09 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: CABLE TENSION? I was fortunate that my hangar mate has a cable tensiometer and I used his to tension the wing strut X-brace cables. I didn't have any set value of tension though... I twanged one to the tension I liked, then checked the tension with the gauge, then set the others to the same tension. I also don't have Corky's piano-tuner ear so I don't know what key my cables twang in. West Marine carries the Loos "regular" cable tensiometer for $79.99 and it's good for 3/32", 1/8", and 5/32" cables. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:36 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings Yeah but when it landed it was a Pietenpaulette.... don't take seriously and for crying out loud, do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: Owen Davies >Sent: Oct 6, 2009 8:11 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairings > > >Bill Church wrote: >> Sounds like it did have a mishap on landing, and flipped over. And then >> it was put up for sale. >> http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/Keri-Anns_Pietenpol_pics_1.html >Sorry to hear that. Still, at least its feathers did not come off when >the wax melted. > >Owen > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:44 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? From: "Bill Church" I thought for sure "Fwang" would be in here, but it isn't: http://www.collectmad.com/madcoversite/index-dmd.html Lots of good reading, though. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? --> If you didn't read Mad Magazine in the 60's and 70's (I studied them as my primary life guide...)...you probably won't recognize these words..... -----Original Message----- >From: K5YAC >Sent: Oct 5, 2009 9:11 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? > > >I'm getting ready to do this soon too... can someone elaborate a bit more on the FWANG method? > >-------- >Mark - working on wings > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:41 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! All, I just took a look at the Amelia trailer and came across an interesting shot of a small, parasol plane with a radial engine. The image is attached - does anyone have an idea what it could be? Looks like it might be a Piet except for the lift struts... Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:26 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! From: "Bill Church" I believe it's a Morane-Saulnier replica. http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/08/fun-flyer-lands-roll-in-new-amelia-earha rt-film/ Doesn't look so much like a Piet when you see the whole thing. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! All, I just took a look at the Amelia trailer and came across an interesting shot of a small, parasol plane with a radial engine. The image is attached - does anyone have an idea what it could be? Looks like it might be a Piet except for the lift struts... Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:05 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? Chris, Can you elaborate on your construction of the tensioner? Thanks, Jack www.textors.com Thanks everybody! As i figured, i am overthinking this problem. I went ahead and made the tensioner this morning and i will check to see how many pounds it is after i get the "twang" sound. Being a machinist, i am very particular to exacting details........thats why when i put my wing together i couldn't fit a piece of paper between any of the joints.....wood is so much different than metal, i need to loosen up my personal tolerances. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266778#266778 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:19:00 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! From: Ryan Mueller Dan, It looks to be Dick and Sharon Starks's Airdrome Aeroplanes Morane: http://www.jetwhine.com/2008/08/fun-flyer-lands-roll-in-new-amelia-earhart-film/ On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > All, > > I just took a look at the Amelia trailer and came across an interesting > shot of a small, parasol plane with a radial engine. The image is attached > - does anyone have an idea what it could be? Looks like it might be a Piet > except for the lift struts... > > Cheers, > Dan > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:12 AM PST US From: "Dave Abramson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! I concur! Morane !!! 1919 / 1920 ? They have one at ole Rinebeck! Scary Beast! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Amelia" movie trailer - name that airplane! All, I just took a look at the Amelia trailer and came across an interesting shot of a small, parasol plane with a radial engine. The image is attached - does anyone have an idea what it could be? Looks like it might be a Piet except for the lift struts... Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4445 (20090921) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CABLE TENSION? From: "TOPGUN" Here is the print of the tensioner. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266822#266822 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cable_tension_gage_111.bmp ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 3-piece wing fairings From: "TOPGUN" does anyone have better pictures of Kerri Anne's Piet? that is one beautiful plane. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266823#266823 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:42 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 3-piece wing fairings http://westcoastpiet.com/yesterday_wings.htm Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "TOPGUN" Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 3-piece wing fairings > > does anyone have better pictures of Kerri Anne's Piet? that is one > beautiful plane. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266823#266823 > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:05 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method Gary, I glued little blocks of wood every 3-4" to the plywood-sheeted but rib end s and CC sheeted ribs with T-88 and then used small flathead wood screws thru my aluminum fairings to attach. Worked fine. Mike C. PS-I considered Velcro for a time but.......decided against it. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:31 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CABLE TENSION? Dan Yocum wrote: > Chris, > > I seem to recall reading something like 140 lbs... search the archives > for the term 'tensiometer' in the subject line. Ah. 40#. Missed it by thaaaaaaaat ---> <--- much. What's an order of magnitude between friends? ;-) Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:32 AM PST US From: stephen labash Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib Pietenpol's rib plans do not call for intercostal braces anterior and poste rior to the two spars. Yet all the photos I have seen show them. Follow t he plans or go with the many? Comments appreciated. Steve =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 3-piece wing fairings From: "TOPGUN" Thanks, i can't believe i missed that one. Does anyone know what color of yellow that is? Catdesigns wrote: > http://westcoastpiet.com/yesterday_wings.htm > > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > > --- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266840#266840 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:57 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 3-piece wing fairings Baby Diaper Gerber Squash Do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Oct 6, 2009, at 1:39 PM, TOPGUN wrote: > > Thanks, i can't believe i missed that one. Does anyone know what > color of yellow that is? > > > Catdesigns wrote: >> http://westcoastpiet.com/yesterday_wings.htm >> >> >> Chris >> Sacramento, CA >> WestCoastPiet.com >> >> >> --- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266840#266840 > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Watch A Night to Thank Harrison Ford From: "K5YAC" Dang it... I meant to say there are a couple of connections in THIS one... http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1184434145?bclid=1184431670&bctid=42806230001 -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266848#266848 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:16 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: toasting-- Jimmy Doolittle style SSBzYXcgdGhpcyBkaXNwbGF5IHR3byB3ZWVrcyBhZ28gYXQgdGhlIFVTQUYgTXVzZXVtIGluIERh eXRvbuKAlHRoZSBzaWx2ZXIgZ29ibGV0cyBhcmUgaW4gYSBzaG93Y2FzZSB3aXRoIHRoZSAxMTMg eWVhciBvbGQgYm90dGxlIG9mIGNvZ25hYyB0aGF0IHdpbGwgYmUgb3BlbmVkIHdoZW4gdGhlcmUg YXJlIG9ubHkgMiBvZiB0aGUgRG9vbGl0dGxlIFJhaWRlcnMgYWxpdmUuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KRG9v bGl0dGxlIFJhaWRlcnMgZHJpbmsgYSB0b2FzdCB0byB0aGVpciBmYWxsZW4gcmFpZGVycyBkdXJp bmcgYSByZXVuaW9uIGFuZCBnb2JsZXQgY2VyZW1vbnkgaW4gU2FuIEFudG9uaW8gQXByaWwgMTgu IFdoZW4gdGhlcmUgYXJlIGJ1dCB0d28gUmFpZGVycyBsZWZ0LCB0aGUgdHdvIG1lbiB3aWxsIG9w ZW4gYSBib3R0bGUgb2YgY29nbmFjLCB2aW50YWdlIDE4OTYgKHRoZSB5ZWFyIERvb2xpdHRsZSB3 YXMgYm9ybikgYW5kIGdpdmUgYSBmaW5hbCB0b2FzdCB0byB0aGVpciBkZXBhcnRlZCBjb21yYWRl cy4gRm91cnRlZW4gb2YgdGhlIDgwIFJhaWRlcnMgYXJlIHN0aWxsIGFsaXZlLiAoVS5TLiBBaXIg Rm9yY2UgcGhvdG8vU3RhZmYgU2d0LiBCcmlhbiBGZXJndXNvbikNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpbY2lkOmlt YWdlMDAxLmpwZ0AwMUNBNDY5Qy45QTJGOEIxMF0NCg0KDQoNClJlYWQgbW9yZSBiZWxvdzoNCg0K W2NpZDppbWFnZTAwMi5qcGdAMDFDQTQ2OUMuOUEyRjhCMTBdDQoNCg0KDQoNCkRvb2xpdHRsZSBS YWlkZXJzIGNlbGVicmF0ZSA2NSB5ZWFycyBzaW5jZSBoaXN0b3JpYyBtaXNzaW9uDQoNClRoZSBn b2JsZXQgb2YgU3RhZmYgU2d0LiBXaWxsaWFtIEwuIEJpcmNoLCBhIERvb2xpdHRsZSBSYWlkZXIg YW5kIGJvbWJhcmRpZXIgZnJvbSBjcmV3IE5vLjExLCB3YXMgdHVybmVkIG92ZXIgZHVyaW5nIGEg R29ibGV0IENlcmVtb255IEFwcmlsIDE4IGFzIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIDY1dGggQW5uaXZlcnNhcnkg RG9vbGl0dGxlIFJhaWRlciBSZXVuaW9uIGhlbGQgaW4gU2FuIEFudG9uaW8uIEEgdG9hc3Qgd2Fz IG1hZGUgaW4gU2VyZ2VhbnQgQmlyY2gncyBob25vci4gSGUgcGFzc2VkIGF3YXkgTm92LiAxOCwg MjAwNi4gV2hlbiBhIFJhaWRlciBkaWVzLCBhIHRvYXN0IGlzIG1hZGUgdGhlaXIgaG9ub3IgYW5k IHRoZSBnb2JsZXQgaXMgdHVybmVkIHVwc2lkZSBkb3duLiBXaGVuIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBidXQgdHdv IFJhaWRlcnMgbGVmdCwgdGhlIHR3byBtZW4gd2lsbCBvcGVuIGEgYm90dGxlIG9mIGNvZ25hYywg dmludGFnZSAxODk2LCB0aGUgeWVhciBKaW1teSBEb29saXR0bGUgd2FzIGJvcm4sIGFuZCBvbmNl IGZpbmFsIHRvYXN0IHdpbGwgYmUgbWFkZSB0byB0aGUgZGVwYXJ0ZWQgY29tcmFkZXMuIEZvdXJ0 ZWVuIG9mIHRoZSA4MCByYWlkZXJzIGFyZSBzdGlsbCBhbGl2ZS4gKFUuUy4gQWlyIEZvcmNlIHBo b3RvL1N0YWZmIFNndC4gQnJpYW4gRmVyZ3Vzb24pDQoNCg0KDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:38 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib I am sorry; I have lost the thread here. What braces from where to where? Moreover, you all are too elegant for my limited smarts-- "intercostal?" By golly, that sounds like we'll need empty milk jugs to stay afloat... don't go there, please... I'm kidding there, but I don't know "intercostal." Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- From: stephen labash Sent: Oct 6, 2009 1:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib Pietenpol's rib plans do not call for intercostal braces anterior and posterior to the two spars. Yet all the photos I have seen show them. Follow the plans or go with the many? Comments appreciated. Steve ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:07 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method I just used #10 sheet metal screws into the rib wood. After 5 years and close to 200 hours of flying they still hold. The wings have been removed and re-installed three times with those screws, and they still work fine. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method Gary, I glued little blocks of wood every 3-4" to the plywood-sheeted but rib ends and CC sheeted ribs with T-88 and then used small flathead wood screws thru my aluminum fairings to attach. Worked fine. Mike C. PS-I considered Velcro for a time but...decided against it. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:01 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib Tim, "intercostal" is just a fancy word for a structural member between two other structural members, when there is no other word for it. It is really a medical term, meaning "between the ribs", but I know there were some "intercostals" between the fuselage bulkheads on the F-16. They were usually added to provide a surface to mount something on - e.g., I remember there was an intercostal in the cockpit of the F-16 between a couple of bulkheads that provided the mount for the throttle lever. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC In Rainy North Vernon Indiana tonight -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib I am sorry; I have lost the thread here. What braces from where to where? Moreover, you all are too elegant for my limited smarts-- "intercostal?" By golly, that sounds like we'll need empty milk jugs to stay afloat... don't go there, please... I'm kidding there, but I don't know "intercostal." Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- From: stephen labash Sent: Oct 6, 2009 1:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib Pietenpol's rib plans do not call for intercostal braces anterior and posterior to the two spars. Yet all the photos I have seen show them. Follow the plans or go with the many? Comments appreciated. Steve ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:40 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib From: "Bill Church" The vertical braces are not shown in the Flying and Glider Magazine, nor in the set of Improved Pietenpol Air Camper Pietenpol plans, BUT they ARE shown in the full-size rib plan that is available from the Pietenpol family. They aren't really necessary for strength, but do provide a nice reference point when installing the ribs onto the spars. It's your choice whether to use them or not - both methods would qualify as "per the plans", in my mind. Bill C. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stephen labash Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib Pietenpol's rib plans do not call for intercostal braces anterior and posterior to the two spars. Yet all the photos I have seen show them. Follow the plans or go with the many? Comments appreciated. Steve ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:20 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method A marine trick for when the screw holes eventually enlarge, is to drill then a bit oversize, stuff them with a thickened epoxy, and re-drill them. A refinement is to spray a dry spray-lube like Elmer's or McLube on the screws and insert them into the wet epoxy. When the epoxy cures, the screw threads are nicely formed, and the spray lube (even WD-40 works) lets you unscrew them. Hint, let the spray lube dry first. The overall approach is an effective method of putting screw threads into a sealed hole in wood or some other material. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method I just used #10 sheet metal screws into the rib wood. After 5 years and close to 200 hours of flying they still hold. The wings have been removed and re-installed three times with those screws, and they still work fine. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:08 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method Gary, I glued little blocks of wood every 3-4" to the plywood-sheeted but rib ends and CC sheeted ribs with T-88 and then used small flathead wood screws thru my aluminum fairings to attach. Worked fine. Mike C. PS-I considered Velcro for a time but...decided against it. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:48 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Pietenpol-List: How many flying with Riblett 612? I am trying to figure out which rib jig to build. The stock airfoil or the Riblett 612. The biggest reason for the 612 would be to get a better rate of climb. I have been in planes climbing at 250 fpm and did not like it. A side benefit would be the slightly larger center section volume for either fuel or luggage. I know that there are a few people building 612 wings but how many have actually been flown? Are there any downsides like CG problems - the Piet is know for coming out tail heavy. Dave ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:23 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method of course, another old-time trick is to simply break off a wooden matchstick in the hole and reinstall the screw. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: David Paule To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method A marine trick for when the screw holes eventually enlarge, is to drill then a bit oversize, stuff them with a thickened epoxy, and re-drill them. A refinement is to spray a dry spray-lube like Elmer's or McLube on the screws and insert them into the wet epoxy. When the epoxy cures, the screw threads are nicely formed, and the spray lube (even WD-40 works) lets you unscrew them. Hint, let the spray lube dry first. The overall approach is an effective method of putting screw threads into a sealed hole in wood or some other material. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method I just used #10 sheet metal screws into the rib wood. After 5 years and close to 200 hours of flying they still hold. The wings have been removed and re-installed three times with those screws, and they still work fine. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 2:08 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-piece wing fairing attach method Gary, I glued little blocks of wood every 3-4" to the plywood-sheeted but rib ends and CC sheeted ribs with T-88 and then used small flathead wood screws thru my aluminum fairings to attach. Worked fine. Mike C. PS-I considered Velcro for a time but...decided against it. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:07 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... Ross, I just took off the cap (I used a plastic cannister) and slipped the cannister over the mic, with the small hole I drilled in line with the mic. I was then able to slip a foam mic cover over the cannister. Everyone reported good audio. I should have mentioned that I used coflex (stuff that is used by nurses to secure a bandage), to wrap the mic in before I put the cannister on. You can buy it at any drug store. The colfax keep the cannister from slipping off. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Ross Alexander To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:43 PM Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... Can you describe this a little further? How did you attach the cannister to the mike? Ross in Orangeville, Ontario, Canada 85 hp Piet ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 7:29:10 PM Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... Speaking of radios.....A while back, when I was having problems being understood on the radio because of all the wind noise, someone on this list suggested I put a 35mm film canister, with a small hole, over the mike. I'm here to tell you it works great! Thanks to whom ever passed on that info to me. Gene N502R httt; http://www.matronics.com/contrib============== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- The new Internet Explorer=AE 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 10/05/09 18:23:00 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:02 PM PST US From: Steve Glass Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib Intercostal is a term used frequently in sailboat construction. Typically a longitudinal face between the deck and the hull side on a 45 degree angle . Steve in Maine > From: pietflyr@bellsouth.net > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib > Date: Tue=2C 6 Oct 2009 17:02:00 -0400 > .net> > > Tim=2C "intercostal" is just a fancy word for a structural member between two > other structural members=2C when there is no other word for it. It is re ally > a medical term=2C meaning "between the ribs"=2C but I know there were som e > "intercostals" between the fuselage bulkheads on the F-16. They were > usually added to provide a surface to mount something on - e.g.=2C I reme mber > there was an intercostal in the cockpit of the F-16 between a couple of > bulkheads that provided the mount for the throttle lever. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh=2C NC > In Rainy North Vernon Indiana tonight > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willi s > Sent: Tuesday=2C October 06=2C 2009 4:04 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib > > > > I am sorry=3B I have lost the thread here. What braces from where to whe re? > > Moreover=2C you all are too elegant for my limited smarts-- "intercostal? " By > golly=2C that sounds like we'll need empty milk jugs to stay afloat... do n't > go there=2C please... I'm kidding there=2C but I don't know "intercostal. " > Tim in central TX > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen labash > Sent: Oct 6=2C 2009 1:15 PM > To: Pietenpol matronics =2C "stephen labash.RA-269074" > Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib > > > > Pietenpol's rib plans do not call for intercostal braces anterior and > posterior to the two spars. Yet all the photos I have seen show them. > Follow the plans or go with the many? Comments appreciated. Steve > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:03 PM PST US From: Ryan M Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet in WA ---- Does anyone have any information on the "Pietenpol" built by B ill Duncane in Spokane that's listed on Barnstormers? The gear looks like G rega possibly. Please email me directly. - Thank you, - Ryan=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Baltic birch plywood From: John Fay > *On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Owen Davies wrote:* > > > *Among other comments, Robert Ray wrote:* > > *... for my project I will however use Baltic * > > *birch that's ripped diagonally across the board putting all the grains > as the truss of a bridge and use Douglas fir to cap strip both > > * *sides in an I beam fashion, the web will be 1/4'' Baltic birch, ...* > > * > That should work wonderfully, right up until the plywood delaminates. > Baltic birch ply is high quality stuff, but nearly everything you'll find in > the U.S. is interior grade and much less water resistant than aircraft or > marine ply. > __________________________________________________________________________ > * *Owen, > > My partner and I are using Baltic birch for the 1/8" gussets on the > fuselage and empennage. Our supplier checked and said it was made with an > exterior glue. I do not recall the name of the glue but have it recorded > somewhere in my records. I have bought two different batches, and tested > each by soaking. After 5 or 6 weeks of soaking, no delamination occurred. > I could not get any of it to separate. We are using the European GL 2 (?) 5 > ply, 1/8" equivalent for the fuselage side ply. Both resisted any > delamination from soaking, but when boiled, the GL 2 remained solid, but the > Baltic birch came apart quickly in boiling water. I know that T-88 will > also come apart when heated, so I figured that since I was using T-88 for > the glue joints, a similar type of glue in the plywood would not be a > problem. > > John Fay > in Peoria* ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How many flying with Riblett 612? From: Robert Ray Go to utube and watch Frank Lowell Brodhead 2009, he'll give you the news and all the information, russel On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Dave and Connie wrote: > dmatt@frontiernet.net> > > I am trying to figure out which rib jig to build. The stock airfoil or the > Riblett 612. The biggest reason for the 612 would be to get a better rate > of climb. I have been in planes climbing at 250 fpm and did not like it. A > side benefit would be the slightly larger center section volume for either > fuel or luggage. > > I know that there are a few people building 612 wings but how many have > actually been flown? > > Are there any downsides like CG problems - the Piet is know for coming out > tail heavy. > > Dave > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:49 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: the cost of building When I started construction of my first (and only) plans-built homebuilt, the Flying Squirrel that I'm still working on, I kept a very detailed log of build time, tasks, costs, and receipts. I am still keeping it. After more than six years of building and virtually no flying, I knew I'd have to have an airplane to fly or I'd lose my flying skills. I bought Corky's Piet so I could keep flying while I continued to build and that was five years ago now (I first cut wood on the Squirrel eleven years ago). I have learned a lot about the cost of building an airplane. Mostly it consists of dozens of purchases of $10-$20 range, with a few in the $50-$100 dollar range, once the big ticket items are paid for (wood, engine, instruments). The thing about it is, it's not like when you go to buy a new car and have to sign for something with five figures right there, right then. And in the case of working on an airplane that you are also flying, it's nearly painless. Repairs, upgrades, enhancements- the cost of those is very easy to bear, and so is fuel. No, it's getting into the game that is the most painful and yet in hindsight, it's really not that significant. I paid more for a new washer and dryer than it costs for all the wood to build an airframe and wings. I paid more for my lawnmower than it costs for the glass cloth and epoxy resin to build my Flying Squirrel. I paid more for my daughter's 2004 Camry with over 100K miles on it than for a complete A65 with carb, mags, and exhaust. And yet buying the Camry was so casual that I met the seller at the parking lot of a mall, handed him a check, he gave me the papers for it, and I drove off. Just like that. Buying an airplane engine, or a prop, or almost anything for it- seems to require a lot more agonizing, rationalization, and saving up than it really should. Once you're flying, there is no turning back; you're hooked. I have never thought about the shipping & handling costs for things I buy for the airplane, and although I'm sure it's a significant cost, it's nothing compared with what I get out of flying my Air Camper. Nothing. Don't let the cost of building or flying be the only deterrent to engaging in it. Start simple, work your way up, and don't look back. And to think that for those in professional employment the government skims almost as much off a 2-week paycheck than it costs for a complete set of new Slick mags, harness, and plugs for the engine, and this happens every two weeks!!! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:25 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib Jack, Bill, and Steve, thanks. I understand the location and definition now. Whew, I am past that issue on the ribs. I thought this was something I had missed. I keep finding little niggling details, but so far at least just in time, thanks to help of all of you (sometimes "us"). Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips >Sent: Oct 6, 2009 4:02 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib > > >Tim, "intercostal" is just a fancy word for a structural member between two >other structural members, when there is no other word for it. It is really >a medical term, meaning "between the ribs", but I know there were some >"intercostals" between the fuselage bulkheads on the F-16. They were >usually added to provide a surface to mount something on - e.g., I remember >there was an intercostal in the cockpit of the F-16 between a couple of >bulkheads that provided the mount for the throttle lever. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC >In Rainy North Vernon Indiana tonight > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis >Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:04 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib > > > >I am sorry; I have lost the thread here. What braces from where to where? > >Moreover, you all are too elegant for my limited smarts-- "intercostal?" By >golly, that sounds like we'll need empty milk jugs to stay afloat... don't >go there, please... I'm kidding there, but I don't know "intercostal." >Tim in central TX > >-----Original Message----- >From: stephen labash >Sent: Oct 6, 2009 1:15 PM >To: Pietenpol matronics , "stephen labash.RA-269074" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: intercostals wing rib > > >Pietenpol's rib plans do not call for intercostal braces anterior and >posterior to the two spars. Yet all the photos I have seen show them. >Follow the plans or go with the many? Comments appreciated. Steve > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:07 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No RPM drop on mag check?? Well, the electric-eye doohicky RPM reader says that there is no RPM drop at high RPMs, either... I may drop by Harry Fenton's place and see what he has to say, some day. Robert Ray wrote: > Oh so the tach was bad not the mags well lucky you. > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Dan Yocum > wrote: > > > > > Just a quick note on this subject - during our flight on Thursday we > stopped in at friend's airfield and he lent me his digital rpm > reader - I don't recall the official name of it at the moment. > > I have to do some more methodical tests, but what I did see suggests > that the tachometer is low by about 11.4%. That is, at 1000RPM > indicated on the tachometer, the prop was actually spinning at > 1140RPM. So, at 2050RPM (which I do achieve when I lean it out) > it's actually spinning at around 2280. That's close enough to > redline for my tastes. > > When Tres delivered the plane he mentioned that at one point in the > past the tach pegged itself at the high end. Turns out that some > oil got up inside the tachometer from the cable. He cleaned the > tachometer up, but apparently didn't recalibrate it. So, mystery > solved on that one. -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:52 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: the cost of building Very Well Said Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > From: taildrags@hotmail.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: the cost of building > Date: Tue=2C 6 Oct 2009 21:23:57 -0500 > > > > > When I started construction of my first (and only) > plans-built homebuilt=2C the Flying Squirrel that I'm > still working on=2C I kept a very detailed log of build > time=2C tasks=2C costs=2C and receipts. I am still keeping > it. After more than six years of building and virtually > no flying=2C I knew I'd have to have an airplane to fly > or I'd lose my flying skills. I bought Corky's Piet so > I could keep flying while I continued to build and > that was five years ago now (I first cut wood on the > Squirrel eleven years ago). > > I have learned a lot about the cost of building an > airplane. Mostly it consists of dozens of purchases > of $10-$20 range=2C with a few in the $50-$100 dollar range=2C > once the big ticket items are paid for (wood=2C engine=2C > instruments). The thing about it is=2C it's not like > when you go to buy a new car and have to sign for > something with five figures right there=2C right then. > And in the case of working on an airplane that you are > also flying=2C it's nearly painless. Repairs=2C upgrades=2C > enhancements- the cost of those is very easy to bear=2C > and so is fuel. No=2C it's getting into the game that is > the most painful and yet in hindsight=2C it's really not > that significant. > > I paid more for a new washer and dryer than it costs for > all the wood to build an airframe and wings. I paid > more for my lawnmower than it costs for the glass cloth > and epoxy resin to build my Flying Squirrel. I paid > more for my daughter's 2004 Camry with over 100K miles > on it than for a complete A65 with carb=2C mags=2C and > exhaust. And yet buying the Camry was so casual that > I met the seller at the parking lot of a mall=2C handed > him a check=2C he gave me the papers for it=2C and I drove > off. Just like that. Buying an airplane engine=2C or > a prop=2C or almost anything for it- seems to require a > lot more agonizing=2C rationalization=2C and saving up than > it really should. > > Once you're flying=2C there is no turning back=3B you're > hooked. I have never thought about the shipping & handling > costs for things I buy for the airplane=2C and although > I'm sure it's a significant cost=2C it's nothing compared > with what I get out of flying my Air Camper. Nothing. > > Don't let the cost of building or flying be the only > deterrent to engaging in it. Start simple=2C work your way > up=2C and don't look back. And to think that for those in > professional employment the government > skims almost as much off a 2-week paycheck than it costs > for a complete set of new Slick mags=2C harness=2C and plugs for > the engine=2C and this happens every two weeks!!! > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio=2C TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:02 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Baltic birch plywood I have no problem with the GL 2 plywood as I am using it for my plywood on my aerobatic Jungster 1 biplane.- However Why re-invent the wheel with a re-designed spar?- The spruce spar works, is time tested and strong.- M y oppinion is to stick to the plans, the engeneering is already done.- Un less you have previous experiance designing and load testing, and plan to l oad test a test spar just use the solid spruce (or doug fir) spar and be do ne with it.- I know this is experimental aviation, but using a plywood bu ilt up spar will only complicate the build, and add extra steps to the buil ding process. - K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid), is my philosiphy, getting complicated onl y makes it complicated. - Not ment to offend anyone, just my hillbilly oppinion, Shad=0A=0A__________________________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo p://mail.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Baltic birch plywood From: Robert Ray The bulliten on west coast Piets says per weight it is both stronger, lighter takes very little time, and they don't use gl-2, they use marine with 45 degree grain. Saves money on wood for sure. It really takes only three maybe four hours to build a spar. The wheels in your head must be turning or you wouldn't of asked. I just bought a plane to fly so I can take all the time I want. Russell On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:38 PM, shad bell wrote: > > I have no problem with the GL 2 plywood as I am using it for my plywood on > my aerobatic Jungster 1 biplane. However Why re-invent the wheel with a > re-designed spar? The spruce spar works, is time tested and strong. My > oppinion is to stick to the plans, the engeneering is already done. Unless > you have previous experiance designing and load testing, and plan to load > test a test spar just use the solid spruce (or doug fir) spar and be done > with it. I know this is experimental aviation, but using a plywood built up > spar will only complicate the build, and add extra steps to the building > process. > > K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid), is my philosiphy, getting complicated > only makes it complicated. > > Not ment to offend anyone, just my hillbilly oppinion, > Shad > > ______________________________________ > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:02 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Baltic birch plywood From: "Bill Church" Well Shad, In the case of the built-up spar like Peter Johnson built in Australia, there was no re-designing needed. In the UK, where amateur aircraft construction is much more restrictive than it is in North America, by law, the only plans that may be used to build a Pietenpol there are a set of the original Pietenpol plans with several mandatory changes. Included in those plans, as designed by Jim Wills, is the plans for that built-up spar. The re-design was prompted by the lack of availability of suitable spar material in the UK, and the result is a built-up spar that is reported to be stronger, lighter and cheaper than a solid Spruce spar. The only downside that I can see is that there is considerably more labor (or labour, since it's British) required to build the built-up spar, as compared to using a solid hunk of Spruce. But then, if one was looking for an aircraft design that didn't require much labor, the Piet is likely the wrong choice anyway, so what's a few more hours in the workshop? And, since, in the UK, the LAA (formerly the PFA) does a thorough engineering review of an aircraft's design prior to allowing any to be built, one can rest assured that the spar design is safe. The down side to all of this is that Mr. Wills apparently will not sell a set of the modified plans to anyone on this side of "the Pond", apparently due to fears of liability. If you aren't aware of Peter's Pietenpol, he maintained a fantastic, fully detailed website throughout the build process, which is still available to view, even though Peter has sold the Air Camper (thanks Peter). http://www.cpc-world.com/ Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of shad bell Sent: Tue 06/10/2009 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Baltic birch plywood I have no problem with the GL 2 plywood as I am using it for my plywood on my aerobatic Jungster 1 biplane.- However Why re-invent the wheel with a re-designed spar?- The spruce spar works, is time tested and strong.- My oppinion is to stick to the plans, the engeneering is already done.- Unless you have previous experiance designing and load testing, and plan to load test a test spar just use the solid spruce (or doug fir) spar and be done with it.- I know this is experimental aviation, but using a plywood built up spar will only complicate the build, and add extra steps to the building process. - K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid), is my philosiphy, getting complicated only makes it complicated. - Not ment to offend anyone, just my hillbilly oppinion, Shad __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoop://mail.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: intercostals wing rib From: "K5YAC" I followed Chuck Gantzer's lead and installed two "intercostal" uprights per spar (4 per rib). Probably overkill, but it is done. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266902#266902 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:39 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1 hi there these valve is perfect can you telmy if these post,or cabane strut these you suport top center wing tanks is made from wood what cain is is l ayer glue i like tanks for all jorge from hanford --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Jim Markle wrote: From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1 hehehehe, well, "it sips pretty nicely" is close...this is special beyond w ords. I could probably afford 750ml of T88...but not the gift Javier brought to m y home when he visited.- I have saved it for special occasions only.- A nd I always get the same response...."don't you DARE mix THIS in a Margueri ta!!!" In fact, I have JUST enough left for a sip when Mark and John visit later t his month... Actually, I have this little tradition.- There is an unopened bottle of S ierra beer on a shelf in my workshop.- That bottle was given to me on one of my first visits with the Piet builders in NorCal.- There's also an un opened bottle of Corona next to it that I received from Sterling when I sig ned up as a member in good standing of the Texas Air Camper Organization (T ACO) several years ago.- Both are very special to me and will remain unop ened.- I look at them and just burst with pride that I get to hang out wi th such a great bunch of people.- Neither are worth much for drinking at this point but still VERY special to me. Life is good.... please, do not archive any of my silly yammering.... To at least make this even a tiny bit "building a Pietenpol" related...last weekend I finally figured out my fuel line/fuel valve setup, thanks to Osc ar.- The valve attaches directly to the bottom of the tank.- From the v alve there's a flexible hose over to where the fuel line runs down the insi de of the laminated maple/mahoghany cabane.- In case something happens an d the cabanes moves somehow, the flexible fuel line will....flex.- Someon e mentioned recently that we can learn a lesson from William Wynne's horrib le accident.- I learned, thank you very much. -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: Oct 5, 2009 8:01 PM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1 > > > >Jim: exactly which supplies are you running low on? >I happen to have 750ml of tequila Sauza Hornitos gold- >reposado, and it sips pretty nicely.- I especially like >it when the flask is at about 45-50F. > >Oops... I think I should be talking about mixing T88... > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >do not archive --- -------- ------ - -- - > > =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:48 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1 these post is for javier in maxico corse in spanis Im bery happi to tras la te to any, one if you like guys;......;ok es toy en california javier deje guadalajara asia 14 anos atras en don de empese a construir- una replica 7/8 scala del nieupor- bebe aqui estou ya con un 38% de mi pieten pol ter minado recientemente estos dias acabe toda mi seccion de cola en que parte de mexico estas si es guadalajara te puedo con tactar con algunos pilotos y home builders saludos desde usa, jorge from hanford --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Javier Cruz wrote: From: Javier Cruz Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1 Hi dear Piets,- well, after to let the piet for almost two years now i ha ve time for work on it, i will clean all (to many dust) ,finish the fuel ta nk and install it... Jorge Donde estas ubicado?- yo estoy en la Ciudad de Mexico, tengo ya algunos a =F1os trabajando en mi Pietenpol... Saludos Javier Cruz pd. good translation Oscar le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:39 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar;perfect these is amaisen proyect i lern some were about people used wood for cabane s these is real hicory and spruse parts i like to now and how to found thes e wood=C2- is le$$$$ $pence in these way? the ww1 planes used for all tru e ward and is bery acrobatic planes tanks for all you inform jorge from han ford, --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ATom, =0A =0A =C2- =0A=0AHere are a few pics. Mine are simply=0Alaminated Hickory =0Awith no other frills. I can take some other close-ups if you want. The l ift=0Astruts will also be Hickory ,=0Abut I won=99t make them until t he wings are done and I can get some actual=0Ameasurements for length. I li ke the attachments that Douwe shows in the=0Aattachment. =0A=0A =C2- =0A =0AI know others have used spruce and combination=0Awith core materials =93 you should be fine. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AGary Boothe =0A=0ACool , Ca. =0A=0APietenpol =0A=0AWW Corvair Conversion,=0Amounted =0A=0ATail=0Ad one,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear =0A=0A(15 ribs down) =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICH ELLE BRANT =0ASent: Monday, October 05, 2009=0A7:14 AM =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List:=0APoplar =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0AGary, =0A =0AI'm interested in your struts - do you have a photo?=C2- Are these the lift=0Astruts, cabanes,???=C2- I plan on making mine of spruce with a pl y core=0A(lift, cabanes, etc). =0A =0AThanks, =0A =0ATom B. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: gboothe5@comcast.net =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar =0ADate: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 05:13:36 -0700 =0A=0A=0A=0ADoug, =0A=0A=C2- =0A =0AHere=99s a page out of 43.13. It shows=0Athat Poplar is not a =98direct=99 replacement, but very close. My=0Aairframe is all Pop lar, Hickory =0Astruts, fir spars. =0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AGary Boothe =0A =0ACool, Ca. =0A=0APietenpol =0A=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted =0A=0ATai l done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear =0A=0A(15 ribs down) =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.co m=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug De ver =0ASent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:16=0AAM =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Poplar =0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0ASomeone stated recently that they=0Aread somewhere that the FAA stated that Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement=0Afor Spruce.=C2- Darned if I could find it in t he archives.=C2- The only source=0AI can find is AC 43.13 which states th at it is not a direct replacement due to=0Ait's slightly lower strength and shock resistance.=C2- I know it's properties=0Aare similar, but If who e ver said this could speak up and let me know the=0Asource I'd appreciate it .=C2- Good Doug Fir is Impossible to get locally, but=0AI found a source locally for for beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all,=0Ait's a tul ip tree. Go figure)=C2- I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if=0AI c ould find some supporting documentation. =0A =0ADoug Dever =0AIn beautiful Stow=0A Ohio =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHotmail: PowerfuL/go/171222986/direct/01/'=0Ata rget='_new'>Get it now. =0A=0A=C2-=C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/cont ribution=C2- =0A=0A =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piete npol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.