Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:15 AM - Re: Poplar;perfect (Robert Ray)
2. 04:43 AM - Google Images (Jack)
3. 04:44 AM - Tom Brown (Jack)
4. 05:24 AM - tailwheel springs (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 05:43 AM - control cable exit holes (Douwe Blumberg)
6. 05:54 AM - Re: tailwheel springs (Scott Knowlton)
7. 07:21 AM - Re: tailwheel springs (Doug Dever)
8. 07:22 AM - Re: control cable exit holes (Doug Dever)
9. 08:15 AM - Re: tailwheel springs (shad bell)
10. 08:16 AM - Re: control cable exit holes (Ryan Mueller)
11. 08:16 AM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Mike Volckmann)
12. 08:18 AM - Re: tailwheel springs (Doug Dever)
13. 08:44 AM - Re: Piets near my travels (Ken Howe)
14. 08:44 AM - tailwheel springs (Oscar Zuniga)
15. 09:19 AM - Re: tailwheel springs (Ken Chambers)
16. 09:41 AM - Re: tailwheel springs (Doug Dever)
17. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... (Ross Alexander)
18. 11:38 AM - Spring Gear (jack@textors.com)
19. 11:56 AM - Re: Spring Gear (K5YAC)
20. 12:01 PM - Re: Spring Gear (K5YAC)
21. 12:20 PM - Re: tailwheel springs (Ben Charvet)
22. 12:20 PM - Re: control cable exit holes (Dan Yocum)
23. 12:23 PM - Re: tailwheel springs (Ben Charvet)
24. 01:21 PM - Re: tailwheel springs (Doug Dever)
25. 01:53 PM - control cable exit holes (Oscar Zuniga)
26. 02:11 PM - Re: Spring Gear (Bill Church)
27. 02:42 PM - Re: Spring Gear (Jack)
28. 02:49 PM - Re: Spring Gear (skellytown flyer)
29. 03:15 PM - Re: the cost of building (Javier Cruz)
30. 03:22 PM - Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 (Javier Cruz)
31. 04:21 PM - Re: Spring Gear (Mike Tunnicliffe)
32. 04:42 PM - Re: Spring Gear (Ken Howe)
33. 05:43 PM - Re: Spring Gear (Jim)
34. 06:24 PM - Re: Spring Gear (Jeff Boatright)
35. 06:48 PM - Re: control cable exit holes (Jeff Boatright)
36. 06:56 PM - Re: Spring Gear (Bill Church)
37. 08:09 PM - one/three piece wing (santiago morete)
38. 08:13 PM - center section plywood (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
39. 08:35 PM - Re: control cable exit holes (Dan Yocum)
40. 08:48 PM - Re: Spring Gear (Clif Dawson)
41. 10:08 PM - Re: Re: 3-piece wing fairings (jorge lizarraga)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Poplar;perfect |
I think perhaps Piet one and maybe two possibly had wood ca banes,
That is the first Mr. Pietenpol built. NOT SURE
There should be wood in your area that has the characteristic's that meet
your needs, check for ash, oak, check with a local timber man,
then research the species. In other words in Europe the Zlin
has been built with Polish Pine spars, so look at a local variety
in your area, select it grade it your self.
Hope this helps,
Russell
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 2:00 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>wrote
:
> these is amaisen proyect i lern some were about people used wood for
> cabanes these is real hicory and spruse parts i like to now and how to fo
und
> these wood is le$$$$ $pence in these way? the ww1 planes used for all tr
ue
> ward and is bery acrobatic planes tanks for all you inform jorge from
> hanford,
>
> --- On *Mon, 10/5/09, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 7:41 AM
>
> Tom,
>
>
> Here are a few pics. Mine are simply laminated Hickory with no other
> frills. I can take some other close-ups if you want. The lift struts will
> also be Hickory , but I won=92t make them until the wings are done and I
can
> get some actual measurements for length. I like the attachments that Douw
e
> shows in the attachment.
>
>
> I know others have used spruce and combination with core materials ' yo
u
> should be fine.
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, Ca.
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> (15 ribs down=85)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *TOM MICHELLE
> BRANT
> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2009 7:14 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I'm interested in your struts - do you have a photo? Are these the lift
> struts, cabanes,??? I plan on making mine of spruce with a ply core (lif
t,
> cabanes, etc).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom B.
> ------------------------------
>
> From: gboothe5@comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 05:13:36 -0700
>
> Doug,
>
>
> Here=92s a page out of 43.13. It shows that Poplar is not a =91direct=92
> replacement, but very close. My airframe is all Poplar, Hickory struts, f
ir
> spars.
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, Ca.
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> (15 ribs down=85)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Doug Dever
> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2009 2:16 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Poplar
>
>
> Someone stated recently that they read somewhere that the FAA stated that
> Yellow Poplar was a direct replacement for Spruce. Darned if I could fin
d
> it in the archives. The only source I can find is AC 43.13 which states
> that it is not a direct replacement due to it's slightly lower strength a
nd
> shock resistance. I know it's properties are similar, but If who ever sa
id
> this could speak up and let me know the source I'd appreciate it. Good D
oug
> Fir is Impossible to get locally, but I found a source locally for for
> beautiful poplar (which isn't a poplar at all, it's a tulip tree. Go
> figure) I'd feel a lot more comfortable using it if I could find some
> supporting documentation.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Hotmail: PowerfuL/go/171222986/direct/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 2
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All,
Just a reminder, Google Images is a fantastic resource, when you are bored
just search for pietenpol air camper.
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 3
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Anybody have Tom Brown's contact info?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 4
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Subject: | tailwheel springs |
One more thing...
There was some talk (writing??) awhile back about not using tailwheel
springs and it set me to thinking. What would happen if one didn't use
springs, just straight cables?
Obviously, bumps and jerks will be transmitted directly to the rudder bar,
which is about the only downside I can see. Seems like you'd get rid of
some potential uncontrolled movement back there without springs, and you'd
save a few ounces.
In you flyer's experiences, how bad can the bumps and jerks be from the
tailwheel, and what do you think of this idea?
Thanks
Douwe,
ps: finished windscreens, now doing leather cockpit coaming, which is very
rewarding. Got the Red Baron thing going!!
Message 5
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Subject: | control cable exit holes |
I am looking at where my control cables exit the fuselage and run back to
the "flippers". Most people seem to glue some leather patches over them,
but I was wondering...
The slits I made in the fuse covering were pretty accurate, Can I simply
leave the slits as they are? or will they gradually tear and enlarge in the
slipstream?
Douwe
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: tailwheel springs |
Douwe,
I can't comment on the actual stress or hardship on the rudder assembly or tailwheel
that would result from having no springs but I can speak as a tailwheel
instructor about their importance.
With such a long moment between main landing gear and the tailwheel of a conventional
gear airplane you really don't "steer" a tailwheel aircraft as much as
"nudge" the tail in the opposite direction you want the nose of the aircraft to
point. That is accomplished by a series of gentle rudder peddal "jabs" in the
direction you want the nose to go accompanied by some smaller jabs in the opposite
direction to keep the aircraft from veering too much toward your intended
course. A check and balance if you will (not meant to insult anyone on the
list who has a bunch of tailwheel experience but rather to help the prolific
builders who haven't flown much with the little wheel on the back).
The springs do a lot to dampen a pilot's nudges both in the direction they want
to go as well as their offsetting nudges in the opposite. A tailwheel that was
hard cabled without springs may allow ease of taxiing at very slow speeds but
would be very difficult to use on a take off or landing rollout where the "dance"
of light jabs left and right are required. The amplitude of these control
inputs and their frequency change with increasing or descreasing ground speed
making it just about humanly impossible for a pilot to keep up with direct
cable linkages. Compare it to a bounce recovery where an inexperienced student
attempts to recover by pushing forward on the stick only to make his or her
problems worse by chasing the resulting porpose.
I also think you would probably encounter greater wear in your tailwheel tire and
assembly if it were not dampened with springs which would necessitate a bigger
and more robust tailwheel negating any weight benefits of having no springs.
My long winded opinion only.
Scott Knowlton
-----Original Message-----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel springs
One more thing...
There was some talk (writing??) awhile back about not using tailwheel
springs and it set me to thinking. What would happen if one didn't use
springs, just straight cables?
Obviously, bumps and jerks will be transmitted directly to the rudder bar,
which is about the only downside I can see. Seems like you'd get rid of
some potential uncontrolled movement back there without springs, and you'd
save a few ounces.
In you flyer's experiences, how bad can the bumps and jerks be from the
tailwheel, and what do you think of this idea?
Thanks
Douwe,
ps: finished windscreens, now doing leather cockpit coaming, which is very
rewarding. Got the Red Baron thing going!!
Message 7
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Subject: | tailwheel springs |
Douwe=2C
All the sonex guys use a direct linkage. No springs. This way you don't ne
ed differential braking.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel springs
> Date: Wed=2C 7 Oct 2009 08:24:54 -0400
>
thlink.net>
>
> One more thing...
>
> There was some talk (writing??) awhile back about not using tailwheel
> springs and it set me to thinking. What would happen if one didn't use
> springs=2C just straight cables?
>
> Obviously=2C bumps and jerks will be transmitted directly to the rudder b
ar=2C
> which is about the only downside I can see. Seems like you'd get rid of
> some potential uncontrolled movement back there without springs=2C and yo
u'd
> save a few ounces.
>
> In you flyer's experiences=2C how bad can the bumps and jerks be from the
> tailwheel=2C and what do you think of this idea?
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe=2C
>
> ps: finished windscreens=2C now doing leather cockpit coaming=2C which is
very
> rewarding. Got the Red Baron thing going!!
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection.=0A
Message 8
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|
Subject: | control cable exit holes |
Need to be reinforced with something. leather plastic etc.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: control cable exit holes
> Date: Wed=2C 7 Oct 2009 08:18:58 -0400
>
thlink.net>
>
> I am looking at where my control cables exit the fuselage and run back to
> the "flippers". Most people seem to glue some leather patches over them
=2C
> but I was wondering...
>
> The slits I made in the fuse covering were pretty accurate=2C Can I simpl
y
> leave the slits as they are? or will they gradually tear and enlarge in t
he
> slipstream?
>
> Douwe
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.=0A
Message 9
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|
Subject: | tailwheel springs |
I would recomend springs for tailwheel instalations.=C2- I believe that i
t will greatly prolong the life of the rudder bar bushing (pivot point), an
d the tailwheel cables.=C2-=C2- I have never had any problem with being
out of control due to the springs stretching.=C2- A second reason for sp
rings would be the fact that the distance from the rudder bar to the steeri
ng arm will change ever so slightly when the t/w spring compresses (at leas
t in theory) , this could possibly snap a tailwheel cable in the event of a
hard landing.=C2- If anything I think a properly tensioned spring would
improve ground handling.
=C2-
Remember: there is no such thing as squirlly airplanes, just squirlly pilot
s,
Shad
--- On Wed, 10/7/09, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel springs
Douwe,
All the sonex guys use a direct linkage. No springs.=C2- This way you don
't need differential braking.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
=C2-
> From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel springs
> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 08:24:54 -0400
>
thlink.net>
>
> One more thing...
>
> There was some talk (writing??) awhile back about not using tailwheel
> springs and it set me to thinking. What would happen if one didn't use
> springs, just straight cables?
>
> Obviously, bumps and jerks will be transmitted directly to the rudder bar
,
> which is about the only downside I can see. Seems like you'd get rid of
> some potential uncontrolled movement back there without springs, and you'
d
> save a few ounces.
>
> In you flyer's experiences, how bad can the bumps and jerks be from the
> tailwheel, and what do you think of this idea?
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe,
>
> ps: finished windscreens, now doing leather cockpit coaming, which is ver
y
> rewarding. Got the Red Baron thing going!!
>
>======================
&g===========
>
>
>
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=99s powerful SP target='_new'
>Sign up now.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: control cable exit holes |
Douwe,
The holes will most likely enlarge and tatter over time, with the
cables moving back and forth through the holes , and vibrating around a bit
in the slipstream. The leather patches, or whatever reinforcement you
choose, can be installed at any time however, so if you want to leave them
off and see how things wear I wouldn't think there would be any harm in
that. Make the holes a preflight item, and if they start to enlarge then you
know you need to install the patches.
Ryan
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Douwe Blumberg
<douweblumberg@earthlink.net>wrote:
> douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>
> I am looking at where my control cables exit the fuselage and run back to
> the "flippers". Most people seem to glue some leather patches over them,
> but I was wondering...
>
> The slits I made in the fuse covering were pretty accurate, Can I simply
> leave the slits as they are? or will they gradually tear and enlarge in
> the
> slipstream?
>
> Douwe
>
>
Message 11
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|
Subject: | Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 |
Jorge,=0A=0AI appreciate your Spanish posts.- I am working on learning-
Spanish and-your posts are more interesting that the stuff we work on in
class.=0A-Mike Volckmann =0A=0A=0AGod is great, Beer is good, People are
Crazy. Billy Currington =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF
rom: jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.
com=0ASent: Tue, October 6, 2009 10:53:23 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
translating Jorge's post- #1=0A=0A=0Athese post is for javier in maxico co
rse in spanis Im bery happi to tras late to any, one if you like guys;.....
.;ok es toy en california javier deje guadalajara asia 14 anos atras en don
de empese a construir- una replica 7/8 scala del nieupor- bebe aqui es
tou ya con un 38% de mi pieten pol terminado recientemente estos dias acabe
toda mi seccion de cola en que parte de mexico estas si es guadalajara te
puedo con tactar con algunos pilotos y home builders saludos desde usa, jor
ge from hanford=0A=0A--- On Mon, 10/5/09, Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx
> wrote:=0A=0A=0A>From: Javier Cruz <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>=0A>Subject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: translating Jorge's post- #1=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronic
s.com=0A>Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 5:49 PM=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Pietenpol-Li
st message posted by: "Javier Cruz" <javcr@prodigy.net.mx>=0A>=0A>Hi dear P
iets,- well, after to let the piet for almost two years now i have time f
or work on it, i will clean all (to many dust) ,finish the fuel tank and in
stall it...=0A>=0A>Jorge=0A>Donde estas ubicado?- yo estoy en la Ciudad d
e Mexico, tengo ya algunos a=F1os trabajando en mi Pietenpol...=0A>=0A>Salu
dos=0A>Javier Cruz=0A>=0A>pd. good translation Osconics.com/Navigator?Piete
npol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.nbsp; - - - - -
- - - - -Matt matronics.com/contribution" ========0A
==================
Message 12
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Subject: | tailwheel springs |
Scott=2C
Not to be contradictory. (you have more tg time than me.) But=2C to bring
up the point that all of the Sonex TW guys use direct (no spring) steering
and virtually none have differential braking. With several hundred flying
=2C everyone says it works great and is the easiest taildragger to fly. No
w I do know that there will be days that nothing will help except for the w
heel on the other end. I landed a C210 once in a 38kt 80deg xwind and I'm
glad I was flying a 210 and not a 180. There were days we counld not even
taxi the 180 as the wind would spin it around with both brakes locked! But
I digress. My question is would you really need the jabs on the rudder if
the tw was direct steer? negating=2C of course=2C the senario I just desc
ribed
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: flyingscott_k@hotmail.com
> To: douweblumberg@earthlink.net=3B pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wed=2C 7 Oct 2009 12:48:07 +0000
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel springs
>
tmail.com>
>
> Douwe=2C
>
> I can't comment on the actual stress or hardship on the rudder assembly o
r tailwheel that would result from having no springs but I can speak as a t
ailwheel instructor about their importance.
>
> With such a long moment between main landing gear and the tailwheel of a
conventional gear airplane you really don't "steer" a tailwheel aircraft as
much as "nudge" the tail in the opposite direction you want the nose of th
e aircraft to point. That is accomplished by a series of gentle rudder pedd
al "jabs" in the direction you want the nose to go accompanied by some smal
ler jabs in the opposite direction to keep the aircraft from veering too mu
ch toward your intended course. A check and balance if you will (not meant
to insult anyone on the list who has a bunch of tailwheel experience but ra
ther to help the prolific builders who haven't flown much with the little w
heel on the back).
>
> The springs do a lot to dampen a pilot's nudges both in the direction the
y want to go as well as their offsetting nudges in the opposite. A tailwhee
l that was hard cabled without springs may allow ease of taxiing at very sl
ow speeds but would be very difficult to use on a take off or landing rollo
ut where the "dance" of light jabs left and right are required. The amplitu
de of these control inputs and their frequency change with increasing or de
screasing ground speed making it just about humanly impossible for a pilot
to keep up with direct cable linkages. Compare it to a bounce recovery wher
e an inexperienced student attempts to recover by pushing forward on the st
ick only to make his or her problems worse by chasing the resulting porpose
.
> I also think you would probably encounter greater wear in your tailwheel
tire and assembly if it were not dampened with springs which would necessit
ate a bigger and more robust tailwheel negating any weight benefits of havi
ng no springs. My long winded opinion only.
> Scott Knowlton
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
> Date: Wed=2C 7 Oct 2009 12:24:54
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel springs
>
thlink.net>
>
> One more thing...
>
> There was some talk (writing??) awhile back about not using tailwheel
> springs and it set me to thinking. What would happen if one didn't use
> springs=2C just straight cables?
>
> Obviously=2C bumps and jerks will be transmitted directly to the rudder b
ar=2C
> which is about the only downside I can see. Seems like you'd get rid of
> some potential uncontrolled movement back there without springs=2C and yo
u'd
> save a few ounces.
>
> In you flyer's experiences=2C how bad can the bumps and jerks be from the
> tailwheel=2C and what do you think of this idea?
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe=2C
>
> ps: finished windscreens=2C now doing leather cockpit coaming=2C which is
very
> rewarding. Got the Red Baron thing going!!
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.=0A
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Piets near my travels |
John,
I'm on the west side of Portland between Beaverton and Tigard. Where in
the PDX area will you be? I wouldn't have much to show you on my project -
a rib jig and a couple ribs. Have you made contact with anyone else in this
area?
--Ken
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:11:39 EDT, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote: I will be
arriving Portland Oregon Monday 10/12 leaving 10/14 evening for Sacramento
Ca for one 2 nights traveling by car to and from Stockton Ca then out on
Friday morning Sacramento to Baltimore. I would enjoy visiting Piets in
process building and or flying Piets for meet greet photos and brew, if
anyone is interested please advise. Thanks John Junior Ambassador and
Special Assistant to Ambassador and Secretary of Piet, Jim Markle In a
message dated 10/5/2009 3:44:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Markle
I'm in Livermore this week....any Piets in the area? I was hoping to get
up to see the
gang in the Sacramento area but may not have time for
that....actually working a couple blocks from the Livermore Municipal
Airport...looks like a few interesting airplanes there.
Anyway, anyone in the area?
Jim ========================= Use the ties Day
================================================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
================================================ - List Contribution Web
Site sp; ==================================================
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Subject: | tailwheel springs |
I vote for springs. I've even gotten advice to go a step
further and not run the tailwheel steering cables taut,
but to leave them a little loose or slack in order to
provide just a bit less reaction while dancing on the
rudder pedals. The springs provide some damping of the
dance and a lower tension (or slack) in the cables would
also remove some of the instant reaction.
When I first taxied 41CC I was amazed at how sensitive it
was to steering inputs on the concrete apron, and how
precisely I could steer it around the ramp without use of
the brakes. After actually flying it a while, I've come
to wish that I could decouple the tailwheel from the
rudder a bit more and I may try some softer springs or
maybe back off of the cable tension a bit. Sometimes the
nose veers a bit due to the tailwheel response when
you only meant to use rudder. Hard to explain until you
go fly and taxi your airplane, but in any case I'd stay
with the springs for sure.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Subject: | Re: tailwheel springs |
Has anyone thought of putting the springs somewhere closer to the rudder
bar?
Might make weight and balance a little easier, with a couple pounds moved
forward.
I haven't got to the point of routing cables so I have no idea if there's
any room for them inside the fuselage.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I vote for springs. I've even gotten advice to go a step
> further and not run the tailwheel steering cables taut,
> but to leave them a little loose or slack in order to
> provide just a bit less reaction while dancing on the
> rudder pedals. The springs provide some damping of the
> dance and a lower tension (or slack) in the cables would
> also remove some of the instant reaction.
>
> When I first taxied 41CC I was amazed at how sensitive it
> was to steering inputs on the concrete apron, and how
> precisely I could steer it around the ramp without use of
> the brakes. After actually flying it a while, I've come
> to wish that I could decouple the tailwheel from the
> rudder a bit more and I may try some softer springs or
> maybe back off of the cable tension a bit. Sometimes the
> nose veers a bit due to the tailwheel response when
> you only meant to use rudder. Hard to explain until you
> go fly and taxi your airplane, but in any case I'd stay
> with the springs for sure.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
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Subject: | tailwheel springs |
Has anybody thought about not having springs? Just had to go there=3B-)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel springs
From: ken.riffic@gmail.com
Has anyone thought of putting the springs somewhere closer to the rudder ba
r?
Might make weight and balance a little easier=2C with a couple pounds moved
forward.
I haven't got to the point of routing cables so I have no idea if there's a
ny room for them inside the fuselage.
On Wed=2C Oct 7=2C 2009 at 10:41 AM=2C Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I vote for springs. I've even gotten advice to go a step
further and not run the tailwheel steering cables taut=2C
but to leave them a little loose or slack in order to
provide just a bit less reaction while dancing on the
rudder pedals. The springs provide some damping of the
dance and a lower tension (or slack) in the cables would
also remove some of the instant reaction.
When I first taxied 41CC I was amazed at how sensitive it
was to steering inputs on the concrete apron=2C and how
precisely I could steer it around the ramp without use of
the brakes. After actually flying it a while=2C I've come
to wish that I could decouple the tailwheel from the
rudder a bit more and I may try some softer springs or
maybe back off of the cable tension a bit. Sometimes the
nose veers a bit due to the tailwheel response when
you only meant to use rudder. Hard to explain until you
go fly and taxi your airplane=2C but in any case I'd stay
with the springs for sure.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le=2C List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.=0A
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Subject: | Re: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams... |
Thank you for the reply....I will give it a try!~ Ross=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0AFrom: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycabl
e.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tue, October 6, 2009 8:01
:26 PM=0ASubject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstre
ams...=0A=0A =0ARoss, I just took off the cap (I used a plastic =0Acanniste
r) and slipped the cannister over the mic, with the small hole I drilled
=0Ain line with the mic. I was then able to slip a foam mic cover over the
=0Acannister. Everyone reported good audio. =0AI should have mentioned t
hat I used coflex (stuff =0Athat is used by nurses to secure a bandage), to
wrap the mic in before I put the =0Acannister on. You can buy it at any d
rug store. The colfax keep the =0Acannister from slipping off.=0AGene=0A
=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Ross Alexander =0A>To: pietenpol-
list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:43 =0A> PM=0A>Subj
ect: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing =0A> at Airports with Gulfstreams...
=0A>=0A>=0A>Can you describe this a little further? How did you attach
=0A> the cannister to the mike?=0A>=0A>Ross =0A> in Orangeville, Ontario,
Canada 85 hp Piet=0A>=0A>=0A________________________________=0A From: Gene
& Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.co
m=0A>Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 7:29:10 =0A> PM=0A>Subject: Re: Re: =0A
> Pietenpol-List: Landing at Airports with Gulfstreams...=0A>=0A> > =0A>Sp
eaking of radios.....A while back, when I was =0A> having problems being u
nderstood on the radio because of all the wind noise, =0A> someone on this
list suggested I put a 35mm film canister, with a small hole, =0A> over t
he mike. I'm here to tell you it works great! Thanks to whom =0A> ever p
assed on that info to me.=0A>Gene =0A>N502R =0A> =0A>httt; http://www.matr
onics.com/contrib================0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A________________________________=0A The new Internet Explorer=AE 8 - Fas
ter, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for =0A> Free! =0A>=0A
>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>href="http://forums.matronics.c
om">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/contrib
ution">http://www.matronics.com/c =0A________________________________=0A >
=============0A=0A=0A ________________________
__________________________________________=0ABe smarter than spam. See how
smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Ma
il. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for
free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
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--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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That probably translates into several inches of travel at the wheels, plus you
can add the compression of the spring to that 1 3/4".
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266965#266965
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Never mind... I see that 1 3/4" IS the amount of compression on the spring. I
still wonder how much travel that translates to... surely much more than 1 3/4".
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266966#266966
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Subject: | Re: tailwheel springs |
If you were to put the springs in front, they would be right next to
your ankles, and you could get pinched. We are talking ounces here, not
pounds. The springs are usually attached to the cables by a short piece
of chain, to allow for adjustments. This is easily done at the rear of
the airplane.
Ben
Ken Chambers wrote:
>
> Has anyone thought of putting the springs somewhere closer to the
> rudder bar?
>
> Might make weight and balance a little easier, with a couple pounds
> moved forward.
>
> I haven't got to the point of routing cables so I have no idea if
> there's any room for them inside the fuselage.
>
>
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Subject: | Re: control cable exit holes |
Douwe,
Indeed, the holes will rip and tatter. See the following:
http://5n429glenoak.homelinux.net/gallery/N8031/img_2580
and a few pictures onward from there...
Which leads to my follow-on question since I have no fabric experience
yet - how does one glue on leather reinforcment patches? Superglue?
Epoxy? How does one prepare the fabric?
Thanks,
Dan
Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Douwe,
>
> The holes will most likely enlarge and tatter over time, with the
> cables moving back and forth through the holes , and vibrating around a
> bit in the slipstream. The leather patches, or whatever reinforcement
> you choose, can be installed at any time however, so if you want to
> leave them off and see how things wear I wouldn't think there would be
> any harm in that. Make the holes a preflight item, and if they start to
> enlarge then you know you need to install the patches.
>
> Ryan
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Douwe Blumberg
> <douweblumberg@earthlink.net <mailto:douweblumberg@earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
> <douweblumberg@earthlink.net <mailto:douweblumberg@earthlink.net>>
>
> I am looking at where my control cables exit the fuselage and run
> back to
> the "flippers". Most people seem to glue some leather patches over
> them,
> but I was wondering...
>
> The slits I made in the fuse covering were pretty accurate, Can I
> simply
> leave the slits as they are? or will they gradually tear and
> enlarge in the
> slipstream?
>
> Douwe
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: tailwheel springs |
When I was learning to fly my Baby Ace, I intentionally loosened the
cables/springs to the tailwheel to make it more forgiving on landing.
If you are landing in any type of cross-wind the rudder will most likely
be deflected to one side as you touch down, and if the wheel had no
slack or springs it would tend to throw you in the weeds, and then you
really get to dance on the rudder pedals. Just my $.02
Ben Charvet
Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> One more thing...
>
> There was some talk (writing??) awhile back about not using tailwheel
> springs and it set me to thinking. What would happen if one didn't use
> springs, just straight cables?
>
> Obviously, bumps and jerks will be transmitted directly to the rudder bar,
> which is about the only downside I can see. Seems like you'd get rid of
> some potential uncontrolled movement back there without springs, and you'd
> save a few ounces.
>
> In you flyer's experiences, how bad can the bumps and jerks be from the
> tailwheel, and what do you think of this idea?
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe,
>
> ps: finished windscreens, now doing leather cockpit coaming, which is very
> rewarding. Got the Red Baron thing going!!
>
>
> _
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Subject: | tailwheel springs |
I disagree=2C but my personal experience is only with an ultralight with di
rect steering. No problems. There are=2C however several hundred Sonexs f
lying with direct steering.
Mine will be direct steer=2C but hey=2C I only have a couple hundred hrs t
g time. Most of it ultralight.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Date: Wed=2C 7 Oct 2009 15:23:09 -0400
> From: bcharvet@bellsouth.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel springs
>
>
>
> When I was learning to fly my Baby Ace=2C I intentionally loosened the
> cables/springs to the tailwheel to make it more forgiving on landing.
> If you are landing in any type of cross-wind the rudder will most likely
> be deflected to one side as you touch down=2C and if the wheel had no
> slack or springs it would tend to throw you in the weeds=2C and then you
> really get to dance on the rudder pedals. Just my $.02
>
> Ben Charvet
>
> Douwe Blumberg wrote:
arthlink.net>
> >
> > One more thing...
> >
> > There was some talk (writing??) awhile back about not using tailwheel
> > springs and it set me to thinking. What would happen if one didn't use
> > springs=2C just straight cables?
> >
> > Obviously=2C bumps and jerks will be transmitted directly to the rudder
bar=2C
> > which is about the only downside I can see. Seems like you'd get rid of
> > some potential uncontrolled movement back there without springs=2C and
you'd
> > save a few ounces.
> >
> > In you flyer's experiences=2C how bad can the bumps and jerks be from t
he
> > tailwheel=2C and what do you think of this idea?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Douwe=2C
> >
> > ps: finished windscreens=2C now doing leather cockpit coaming=2C which
is very
> > rewarding. Got the Red Baron thing going!!
> >
> >
> > _
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A
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Subject: | control cable exit holes |
Dan;
I salvaged a discarded leather shoe, cut it into patches
with pinking shears, and attached them to the fabric with
Weldwood Contact Cement after cleaning the fabric with
soap and water.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Jack,
The required length of the slot is dependant on the amount of travel you
will want/need. The amount of travel you will actually get is dependant
on the weight of the plane, how hard you "land" and the specifics of the
actual springs you use. That's a lot of variables!
The example provided in Tony's book is likely for a specific plane
(although it could easily apply to many of a similar
size/configuration). It may, or may not apply to the Pietenpol.
To make life easier, since we're talking about Pietenpols, why don't we
refer to a couple of drawings that apply specifically to Pietenpols. The
first is a drawing that came from the old BPA Newsletters, and was drawn
in 1984 by Frank Pavliga Sr, I believe. In this drawing, the slot is 2
3/4" long.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=lndg_gear_s
p
ring.jpg&PhotoID 09
The second drawing is a little more recent (2005), and was done by Hans
van der Voort, as built on his award-winning Piet. In this arrangement,
the slot is 2 1/2" long.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=75
So it looks like the slot probably should be longer for use on the Piet.
I think either of these arrangements will work well for the Piet. At
least I do not recall ever reading that anyone built to either design
and was not satisfied with the performance.
Personally, I'm going with the wooden Jenny-style gear, so I'll never
know first hand how they perform, but if I was building the split gear,
I'd go with springs rather than bungees.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jack@textors.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 2:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear
All,
Can you assist with a question on spring gear? The attached photo is
from Tony's book. He states that the slot is 1 3/4" long. Does that
sound like enough travel?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
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Bill,
As usual, fantastic information, thanks. I too was going with the straight
(do you want mine) axle but feel the split will be better for rough fields.
Sorry Mike, Jack, Bill, ET AL. Not being an Engineer and not too bright.I
must not fully understand the operation of the strut. It seems to me no
matter the weight, bounce or spring tension, It looks like the travel will
be limited the slot length. Am I messed up?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear
Jack,
The required length of the slot is dependant on the amount of travel you
will want/need. The amount of travel you will actually get is dependant on
the weight of the plane, how hard you "land" and the specifics of the actual
springs you use. That's a lot of variables!
The example provided in Tony's book is likely for a specific plane (although
it could easily apply to many of a similar size/configuration). It may, or
may not apply to the Pietenpol.
To make life easier, since we're talking about Pietenpols, why don't we
refer to a couple of drawings that apply specifically to Pietenpols. The
first is a drawing that came from the old BPA Newsletters, and was drawn in
1984 by Frank Pavliga Sr, I believe. In this drawing, the slot is 2 3/4"
long.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=lndg_gear_spring
.jpg
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=lndg_gear_sprin
g.jpg&PhotoID 09> &PhotoID 09
The second drawing is a little more recent (2005), and was done by Hans van
der Voort, as built on his award-winning Piet. In this arrangement, the slot
is 2 1/2" long.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=75
So it looks like the slot probably should be longer for use on the Piet. I
think either of these arrangements will work well for the Piet. At least I
do not recall ever reading that anyone built to either design and was not
satisfied with the performance.
Personally, I'm going with the wooden Jenny-style gear, so I'll never know
first hand how they perform, but if I was building the split gear, I'd go
with springs rather than bungees.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jack@textors.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 2:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear
All,
Can you assist with a question on spring gear? The attached photo is from
Tony's book. He states that the slot is 1 3/4" long. Does that sound like
enough travel?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
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I guess you have probably thought of it-but why don't you just loose assemble it
without the spring and move it to the ends of the slot and measure it? I'm sure
you can purchase die springs in different lengths as well as many strenghts
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267003#267003
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Subject: | Re: the cost of building |
Very good post Oscar
I am agree completely ... its not easy , but all this things are forgotten
when you see the Piet on his wheels, when your neighbord cames to house for
see what engine noise is coming from and look that you have a plane (really
you should see his open eyes), on my own, when i put all the parts together
for check i needed to take a deep breathing and i was maybe a half hour just
enjoying how the piet looks... wonderfull...
Now that i have time for continue building i fill better (fisical and
mentally) thinking that is almost done, 90% build and 120% still for work
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: translating Jorge's post- #1 |
Gracias Jorge, conozco algunas personas del medio en Chapala, y algunos
en Mexico, Gracias
Si necesitas algo de Mexico estoy a tus ordenes, vuelo seguido a US
principalmente a la costa este...
mi correo , para no usar esta lista en espa=F1ol es javcr@prodigy.net.mx
Saludos
do not archive
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Perhaps the length of travel is limited by the spring becoming
coil bound, and the slot length should suit the springs used.
Regards Mike T.
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Some basic trig should give you the answer. Take another look at the
geometry of the gear. The wheel travel up and down is not in-line with the
telescoping tubes and the spring. As the the main gear leg pivots up,
around the fuselage attach point, the shock tubes cause the spring to
compress. It's not a 1-1 relationship because of the different lengths of
the gear leg and spring leg and the angles between. Actually if I was at
that stage of my project I'd probably draw it out in scale on a sheet of
paper with my trusty drafting tools.
--Ken
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:17:16 +1300, "Mike Tunnicliffe" wrote: Perhaps
the length of travel is limited by the spring becoming coil bound, and the
slot length should suit the springs used. Regards Mike T.
color: #000000; font-size: x-small;">
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|
Jack I made my shock struts per Bill Reweys drawing for spring struts. The slot
is 2.75" long on my struts. I have not flown them yet but with 6" springs this
seems like a better slot length. Get the packet of Pietenpol tips and hints
direct from Bill.
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Oct 7, 2009 11:44:15 AM, pietenpol-list@matronics.com wrote:
All,
Can you assist with a question on spring gear? The attached photo is from Tony's
book. He states that the slot is 1 3/4" long. Does that sound like enough
travel?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
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I may be off on this, probably am, but it seems to me that the space
between the spring spirals add up to the entire distance that the
spring can compress. If so, then that's how long the slot needs to
be, right?
>
>
>Jack I made my shock struts per Bill Reweys drawing for spring
>struts. The slot is 2.75" long on my struts. I have not flown them
>yet but with 6" springs this seems like a better slot length. Get
>the packet of Pietenpol tips and hints direct from Bill.
>Jim B.
>
>Jim Boyer
>Santa Rosa, CA
>Pietenpol builder with Corvair
>
>Oct 7, 2009 11:44:15 AM, pietenpol-list@matronics.com wrote:
>
>All,
>Can you assist with a question on spring gear? The attached photo
>is from Tony's book. He states that the slot is 1 3/4" long. Does
>that sound like enough travel?
>Thanks,
>Jack
>www.textors.com
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Subject: | Re: control cable exit holes |
Construction contact cement, Ply-o-bond, etc. I think lots of glues will work.
>
>
>Which leads to my follow-on question since I have no fabric
>experience yet - how does one glue on leather reinforcment patches?
>Superglue? Epoxy? How does one prepare the fabric?
Message 36
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Very close, Jeff.
You would need to add the diameter of the cross bolt that holds the
spring.
Since the cross bolt is already in the slot, it will need to be able to
move the full compression of the spring.
That will give the MINIMUM length the slot should be.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wed 07/10/2009 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spring Gear
I may be off on this, probably am, but it seems to me that the space
between the spring spirals add up to the entire distance that the
spring can compress. If so, then that's how long the slot needs to
be, right?
>
>
>Jack I made my shock struts per Bill Reweys drawing for spring
>struts. The slot is 2.75" long on my struts. I have not flown them
>yet but with 6" springs this seems like a better slot length. Get
>the packet of Pietenpol tips and hints direct from Bill.
>Jim B.
>
>Jim Boyer
>Santa Rosa, CA
>Pietenpol builder with Corvair
>
>Oct 7, 2009 11:44:15 AM, pietenpol-list@matronics.com wrote:
>
>All,
>Can you assist with a question on spring gear? The attached photo
>is from Tony's book. He states that the slot is 1 3/4" long. Does
>that sound like enough travel?
>Thanks,
>Jack
>www.textors.com
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Subject: | one/three piece wing |
Dallas,
We used this simple jig to make the 15:1-scarf.- Very easy, fast and ac
curate.
Saludos
-
Santiago
-=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo
! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
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Subject: | center section plywood |
I'm trying to figure out if the center section ply is supposed to be even w
ith the bottom of the ribs - or offset (into the center section) by 1/8"?
The plans make it look like there's an offset but I can't understand why th
is would be desired.
Tom B.
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Subject: | Re: control cable exit holes |
Oscar, Jeff,
That's it? Jeez, that's just too easy! Off to Joann Fabrics I go to
get some leather and contact cement.
Thanks!
Dan
Jeff Boatright wrote:
>
> Construction contact cement, Ply-o-bond, etc. I think lots of glues will
> work.
>
>>
>>
>> Which leads to my follow-on question since I have no fabric experience
>> yet - how does one glue on leather reinforcment patches? Superglue?
>> Epoxy? How does one prepare the fabric?
>
>
>
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 40
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Yep. When in doubt draw it out.
Clif
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be
overcome." ~ Samuel Johnson
. Actually if I was at that stage of my project I'd probably draw it
out in scale on a sheet of paper with my trusty drafting tools.
--Ken
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Subject: | Re: 3-piece wing fairings |
these is made by wood- what cain is that like to now for used in my proye
ct thanks
--- On Tue, 10/6/09, TOPGUN <rmdinfo@lakefield.net> wrote:
From: TOPGUN <rmdinfo@lakefield.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 3-piece wing fairings
Thanks, i can't believe i missed that one. Does anyone know what color of y
ellow that is?
Catdesigns wrote:
> http://westcoastpiet.com/yesterday_wings.htm
>
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
> ---
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=266840#266840
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