Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 10/11/09


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: tailwheel springs (Doug Dever)
     2. 08:22 AM - Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood (jim)
     3. 08:22 AM - Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood (jim)
     4. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood (jim)
     5. 08:33 AM - Irwin Clamps (K5YAC)
     6. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: tailwheel springs (Doug Dever)
     7. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood (jim)
     8. 09:14 AM - Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood (chase143)
     9. 09:24 AM - Re: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood (Ryan Mueller)
    10. 11:41 AM - Re: emergency runways (CraigM)
    11. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: emergency runways (Wayne Bressler)
    12. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood (Robert Ray)
    13. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood (Robert Ray)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:54:59 AM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: tailwheel springs
    Wheather a straight curved or hinged setup the geometry will change when fl exed. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tailwheel springs Apples and oranges. As has been noted=2C with our type of standard=2C curve d springs=2C the wheel moves further aft as it moves upward. The Sonex spring is a long straight bar=2C parallel with the cables that does NOT get longer with weight on it.Hence=2C no need for the springs. Clif Sonex runs a direct linkage and uses a round spring Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection.=0A


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:22:28 AM PST US
    From: "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood
    Wow, thanks Russell! I'll have to keep your testing procedures around for future consideration. I talked with the folks at McCormick's in Madison about Okume but was not sure of it until I got yours, and others, responses. Thanks again, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Ray To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:32 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Substitute for mahogany plywood Okume, also a direct sub is meranti, Meranti is almost the same strength to weight and okume is lighter and not quite as strong. I bought baltic birch that is three ply, the outer ply's are perfect no knots no imperfections, I can't see the inner ply however bending shows no voids or inclination to change bend radius at a splice. This wasn't sold to me as having water proof glue however I have soaked in in the bath tub 1 week, took it out smashed it with a hammer it failed in the grain not glue lamination line, I then took the remaining pieces and placed them out side where it rained one week the sun shined and then it rained another week, I then place the plywood in the oven at 170 for three days, still no DE lamination, I then tried the old hammer trick, no fail. I think this is more abuse and water than it will experience on a plane so there fore I'm using it. 20 dollars for a 5'x5' sheet, the shock resistance of birch is WOW, but then it's heavier, I would not use luan or regular ply that has gaps in the inner ply. Also you can and I have gone to lumber supply and hardware places and get door skins, you can pick them up cheap where a door has been accidental damaged. This was done on the original Bowers Fly Baby or at least so I've heard that it was built with door skins. Russell Russell On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 8:23 PM, jim <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote: What is an acceptable substitute for 1/8" mahogany plywood for the fuselage? Can't find it locally (Milwaukee) and shipping from AC Spruce is outrageous. Thanks, Jim " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:22:33 AM PST US
    From: "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood
    Hi Ryan, Yes I did. I was unsure of using Okume as a substitute until I got people's responses. McCormick's quoted me $75 per 4x8 sheet. Allot better than AC Spruce plus $100 for shipping. Thanks, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Substitute for mahogany plywood Jim, Have you tried contacting McCormick Lumber in Madison? They are known for being a source of aircraft quality spruce and plywood....it's aircraft quality, it's just not certified, so it's not as expensive as actual certified aircraft wood/plywood. Madison, as you know, is not too far away for you. http://www.mccormicklumber.com/ (608) 244-4741 Ryan On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 7:23 PM, jim <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote: What is an acceptable substitute for 1/8" mahogany plywood for the fuselage? Can't find it locally (Milwaukee) and shipping from AC Spruce is outrageous. Thanks, Jim " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:22:45 AM PST US
    From: "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood
    Thanks Paul, I did contact them and also got good feedback from the group on Okume. Thanks for the spar report too. That's next and I would prefer to go through them. Thanks again, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9@countryspeed.com> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood > <peckham9@countryspeed.com> > > Jim, > > McCormick Lumber in Madison carries 1/8" Okume in 4x8 sheets. I bought > some there a few months ago and paid around $75 a sheet. Its marine > grade, so its good stuff. I wanted to get some 1/4" Okume for the bottom > of the fuselage but they only had Meranti. Nice plywood but it is darker > than Okume and wouldn't match up well with the fuselage sides. I wound up > going to Wicks Aircraft for 1/4" Okume. > > They also carry sitka spruce, about $9.00 a board foot, if I remember > correctly. Its rough sawn, about 1 1/16" thick so you can plane it down > to 3/4" easily enough, if you're making spars that size. If you're making > 1" spars, forget it. Not enough there that you can plane down. I asked > them about getting thicker spar material and they said there was not much > demand for it. The stuff they had there was nice though, very straight > grained, and in 16'-20' lengths. > > Their web site is: www.mccormicklumber.com and you can reach them at > (608)244-4741. Good luck. > > > Paul > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267425#267425 > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:33:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Irwin Clamps
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    If you like Irwin clamps, Home Depot has a 4-pack of the 6" size on sale... buy two, get two free. These are normally $20 for 2, today they are $20 for 4. I have a variety of these in various sizes and they are my favorite clamps. They don't work for every situation, but are very handy for most things that need clamping. Of the three sizes that I have, the 6" are the most useful. I'm not sure if all Home Depot stores have these on sale or just our local store (I think they are advertised in this weeks flier), but if you are nearby a store and you like these, it may be worth checking out. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267463#267463 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/irwin_192.jpg


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:35:38 AM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: tailwheel springs
    Just one more thought about springs. Geometry is the key and it is much ea sier to control geometry with a pivot rather than a spring. In a car when you turn the wheel the inner wheel must travel farther=2C or somehow make a tighter radius. This is called scrubb angle. It is all done with geometr y. Some designers do it by actually turning the inner wheel farther. Some such as Ford do it by changing camber on the inner wheel. All done withou t springs in the linkage. Controlling geometry on the Piet would be a simp le matter with the trailing link type tw as opposed to the single leaf. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tailwheel springs Wheather a straight curved or hinged setup the geometry will change when fl exed. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tailwheel springs Apples and oranges. As has been noted=2C with our type of standard=2C curve d springs=2C the wheel moves further aft as it moves upward. The Sonex spring is a long straight bar=2C parallel with the cables that does NOT get longer with weight on it.Hence=2C no need for the springs. Clif Sonex runs a direct linkage and uses a round spring Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution Hotmail: Trusted email with Micros7141664/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now. =0A _________________________________________________________________=0A Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.=0A


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:39:45 AM PST US
    From: "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood
    And add Russell to the list. Quite a testing procedure!! Thanks, Jim 414-736-2513 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9@countryspeed.com> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood > <peckham9@countryspeed.com> > > Jim, > > I see that Ryan and I agree. > > Hey Ryan, I didn't get a harumph out of you. Harumph! Harumph! > > Paul > > > Oh yeah, do not archive. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267430#267430 > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:14:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood
    From: "chase143" <chase143@aol.com>
    Jim, IMHO a good place to look are boat building yards. Attached is a link to a good list of them throughout the country. I get wood for my boat from a yard in North Carolina, and found very nice Okoume (BS 1088), 4 x 8 sheets: 1/8" @ $35; 1/4" @ $55. When we described the Piet project, he talked our ears off then gave us a discount off the total. If you can find some place local and prevent shipping, you can save a bundle. Steve Another wood source wed site..... http://www.glen-l.com/resources/lumber-suppliers.html Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267479#267479


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:24:33 AM PST US
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood
    Quite a testing procedure, which ultimately proves little beyond the redneck resistance of the material. If you wanted to test your plywood to see how it equates to aircraft grade material, you can find proper testing procedures that will deliver results that can be compared against how well certified plywood should perform. I don't have the particulars in front of me, but it should roughly involve a number of cycles of boiling for a few hours and drying for approx a day before eventually testing to failure under a particular type of load. Again, this would give you results that you could measure against the standards for aircraft grade wood. This could satisfy your curiosity, or you could even add the results to your builder's log as proof that your materials are up to snuff. Or you could soak the wood, smash it with a hammer, leave it on the front lawn for a while, bake it, freeze it, thaw it, microwave it, coat it with Raka epoxy and silica, douse it in Jim Beam and light it on fire. If you do, make sure to Youtube it! ;) Have a good day all! Harumph! Ryan Sent from my mobile device On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:10 AM, "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > And add Russell to the list. Quite a testing procedure!! > > Thanks, > > Jim > > 414-736-2513 > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9@countryspeed.com > > > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:53 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood > > >> > >> >> Jim, >> >> I see that Ryan and I agree. >> >> Hey Ryan, I didn't get a harumph out of you. Harumph! Harumph! >> >> Paul >> >> >> Oh yeah, do not archive. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267430#267430 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:41:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: emergency runways
    From: "CraigM" <cmaiman@yahoo.com>
    Hi There, Well, I certainly know about the dumb ads on EmergencyRunways.com... I'm the founder and have been trying to change the ads! It's not true that there isn't some degree of control. You can put HTML tags in the site code that tells Google to pay attention to this section and/or ignore this section. And I've done that, but it still wants to put anxiety/panic attack ads.... Grrr... Really need to figure it out soon since I expect to be getting a lot more traffic in the near future - I'm in the process of forming partnerships with two of the top portable aviation GPS companies. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267499#267499


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:44:08 PM PST US
    From: Wayne Bressler <wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
    Subject: Re: emergency runways
    Why not just ax the ads? Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Oct 11, 2009, at 2:40 PM, "CraigM" <cmaiman@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Hi There, > > Well, I certainly know about the dumb ads on > EmergencyRunways.com... I'm the founder and have been trying to > change the ads! > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:12:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    This is funny! Russell I'll drink the Beam I live next to the distillery On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote: > > Quite a testing procedure, which ultimately proves little beyond the > redneck resistance of the material. > > If you wanted to test your plywood to see how it equates to aircraft grade > material, you can find proper testing procedures that will deliver results > that can be compared against how well certified plywood should perform. I > don't have the particulars in front of me, but it should roughly involve a > number of cycles of boiling for a few hours and drying for approx a day > before eventually testing to failure under a particular type of load. > > Again, this would give you results that you could measure against the > standards for aircraft grade wood. This could satisfy your curiosity, or you > could even add the results to your builder's log as proof that your > materials are up to snuff. > > Or you could soak the wood, smash it with a hammer, leave it on the front > lawn for a while, bake it, freeze it, thaw it, microwave it, coat it with > Raka epoxy and silica, douse it in Jim Beam and light it on fire. If you do, > make sure to Youtube it! ;) > > Have a good day all! Harumph! > > Ryan > > Sent from my mobile device > > On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:10 AM, "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> >> And add Russell to the list. Quite a testing procedure!! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim >> >> 414-736-2513 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul N. Peckham" < >> peckham9@countryspeed.com> >> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:53 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood >> >> >>> peckham9@countryspeed.com> >>> >>> Jim, >>> >>> I see that Ryan and I agree. >>> >>> Hey Ryan, I didn't get a harumph out of you. Harumph! Harumph! >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> Oh yeah, do not archive. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267430#267430 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:08:41 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    Ryan, Now we can't go around pouring good Jim Beam on plywood now can we? Noe if it was schnapps I would say do it but not Jim Beam. Russell do not archive On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote: > > Quite a testing procedure, which ultimately proves little beyond the > redneck resistance of the material. > > If you wanted to test your plywood to see how it equates to aircraft grade > material, you can find proper testing procedures that will deliver results > that can be compared against how well certified plywood should perform. I > don't have the particulars in front of me, but it should roughly involve a > number of cycles of boiling for a few hours and drying for approx a day > before eventually testing to failure under a particular type of load. > > Again, this would give you results that you could measure against the > standards for aircraft grade wood. This could satisfy your curiosity, or you > could even add the results to your builder's log as proof that your > materials are up to snuff. > > Or you could soak the wood, smash it with a hammer, leave it on the front > lawn for a while, bake it, freeze it, thaw it, microwave it, coat it with > Raka epoxy and silica, douse it in Jim Beam and light it on fire. If you do, > make sure to Youtube it! ;) > > Have a good day all! Harumph! > > Ryan > > Sent from my mobile device > > On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:10 AM, "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> >> And add Russell to the list. Quite a testing procedure!! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim >> >> 414-736-2513 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul N. Peckham" < >> peckham9@countryspeed.com> >> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:53 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Substitute for mahogany plywood >> >> >>> peckham9@countryspeed.com> >>> >>> Jim, >>> >>> I see that Ryan and I agree. >>> >>> Hey Ryan, I didn't get a harumph out of you. Harumph! Harumph! >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> Oh yeah, do not archive. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=267430#267430 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >




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