Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (Doug Dever)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (Don Emch)
3. 06:54 AM - Re: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig (outofthebox50@yahoo.com)
4. 07:21 AM - Re: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig (amsafetyc@aol.com)
5. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (Doug Dever)
6. 08:39 AM - Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (Bill Church)
7. 09:35 AM - Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (Doug Dever)
8. 09:53 AM - Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (amsafetyc@aol.com)
9. 10:18 AM - Re: Vi Kapler's Piets (dwilson)
10. 10:18 AM - Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (mike)
11. 11:11 AM - Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (Doug Dever)
12. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol (Wayne Bressler)
13. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Markle's photos and Ford Piets (Jim)
14. 02:27 PM - Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol (Wayne Bressler)
15. 04:13 PM - A first for me (amsafetyc@aol.com)
16. 07:33 PM - Re: A first for me (K5YAC)
17. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: A first for me (amsafetyc@aol.com)
18. 10:40 PM - Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings (Ryan Mueller)
Message 1
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Subject: | time to cover airplanes/ wings |
Mike=2C
I had my tongue in my cheek on that comment. We worked 5pm-11pm every nigh
t and all day on 2 Satudays and one sunday. And yes=2C We did know what we
were doing. At least he did. That was the first one for me. Fabric anyw
ay. I did learn to buck rivets when I was 10. I got that job by default.
I was the only one he had available most of the time. I pretty much decid
ed at that point I would ner build or rebuild an airplane with bucked rivet
s. It helped being small enough to crawl down into the tail.
I'm limited more by money than time. Although I don't have a lot of either
. I've got my rib jig done and scrounged some really good looking poplar.
building a router table now. When I'm not blowing leaves. Leaves take mo
st of my time until the first week of November. I love trees 11 mo. of the
year. I have a yard full of very old =2C big trees and I get most of my n
eighbors leaves too.
You answered my question of whether you sewed your fabric or used the overl
ap method. I'll probably sew mine. Just because I can.
One more thing the Tri-Champ is NOT the ugliest plane=2C the Tri-Pacer is.
I've got about 200hrs in one and it is still ugly. Often called the flyin
g milk stool.
Do not archive
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sat=2C 17 Oct 2009 17:46:51 -0500
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: time to cover airplanes/ wings
>
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
> Doug D=2C
>
> Slow is a relative term Doug. Of course if wasn't working a 50 hour a wee
k job I would have been able to cover the plane
> sooner=2C just like you and your Dad did recovering a Tri-Champ in 2 week
s.
>
> I had nobody slowing me down-- I was only dating Karen at the time and wh
en she came over most times she would help
> as she is very mechanically inclined.
>
> I had never covered an airplane in my life so naturally if I had previous
experience (like it sounds you and your Dad have) I could
> have done a much faster job. Also I didn't have the luxury of PK screws l
ike you did with your Champ--- I had to rib stitch the wings=2C
> horizontal stabilizer=2C rudder=2C and elevators. I didn't use pre-sewn e
nvelopes which certainly can speed up the process-- I used
> the overlap method on all structures.
>
> I also wanted to have a nice looking covering job=2C not like something t
hat I threw together in a couple of weeks or rushed thru
> the finishing process so I took my time to make sure I would have no regr
ets looking at the finished product for the rest of my life.
>
> Lastly-- Did you own the TriChamp or just recover it for someone else. My
next comment is purely opinion and preference but
> the Tri Champ has to be one of the most ugly planes ever produced.
>
> Point taken-- you can get lots done if you have full time to work on a pr
oject and funds to keep up with yourself.
>
> So when will you be flying your Pietenpol on the first flight Doug ? Let'
s see some progress photos of where you're at. Would
> love to see some.
>
> Mike C. not very beautifu=2C average small town Berea=2C Ohio
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings |
I started covering my Piet in a September with the thought that I'd be flying before
Winter set in. Ha! I finally trailered it to the airport the following
November! It took me over a year too Mike. And I was consistently working on
it. Not every day but at least a couple of days a week. It took much longer
than I ever would have imagined! I can't imagine the big biplane guys. Or
how about the Staggerwing guys with the closely spaced rib stitching (because
of the high VNE). That would be like rib stitching eight Pietenpol wing panels!
Wow! I'm currently restoring an Aeronca Chief along with my dad. We are
finally at the exciting covering stage. Although they stick up and are ugly,
the PK screws are amazing compared to rib stitching!! No cut fingers and you
can do an entire wing panel in the time it takes to rib stitch like, one rib!
Still you can't beat rib stitching, it really is the way wings were meant to
be covered, right?
Tri-Champ. Come on, now. What was Aeronca thinking!?
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268393#268393
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Subject: | Re: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
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Subject: | Re: Need help- Subject: Engine- turning jig |
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Message 5
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Subject: | Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings |
Don=2C
The PK screws are nice. The clips that are approved on some aircraft are ev
en faster. These were not approved 330+ yrs ago. Keep in mind when I give
these times there were 2 of us. the wing was vertical in a jig and my dad
could tie a knot as fast as you or I coud tie our shoes. One day to rib s
titch a wing. A day and a half to cover=2C cement and apply pinking tape.
Recovering is much different than building from scratch. Everything is al
ready rigged. Washout is set. dihedral is set. It's just a matter of cutt
ing off the covering. Cleaning everything up and covering. If you cut the
old covering off carefully you can lay it over the new and mark and cut fo
r all the inspection holes etc. I don't believe anyone could build a piet
=2C or any other fabric airplane for that matter to the point of covering a
nd get it flying in 2 weeks. Un lees=2C of course=2C there are 2 very expe
rienced builders and you don't need to sleep. BTW=2C that would be 336 hrs
. Working 10hrs a day that would be 140hrs. A lot of time=2C but still.
do not archive
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings
> From: EmchAir@aol.com
> Date: Sun=2C 18 Oct 2009 05:34:29 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I started covering my Piet in a September with the thought that I'd be fl
ying before Winter set in. Ha! I finally trailered it to the airport the fo
llowing November! It took me over a year too Mike. And I was consistently w
orking on it. Not every day but at least a couple of days a week. It took m
uch longer than I ever would have imagined! I can't imagine the big biplane
guys. Or how about the Staggerwing guys with the closely spaced rib stitch
ing (because of the high VNE). That would be like rib stitching eight Piete
npol wing panels! Wow! I'm currently restoring an Aeronca Chief along with
my dad. We are finally at the exciting covering stage. Although they stick
up and are ugly=2C the PK screws are amazing compared to rib stitching!! No
cut fingers and you can do an entire wing panel in the time it takes to ri
b stitch like=2C one rib! Still you can't beat rib stitching=2C it really i
s the way wings were meant to be covered=2C right?
>
> Tri-Champ. Come on=2C now. What was Aeronca thinking!?
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268393#268393
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
Message 6
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Subject: | time to cover airplanes/ wings |
Sorry, but Mike is right about the Tri-Champ.
The Tri-Pacer is gawky, but the Tri-Champ is U G L Y.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Doug Dever
Sent: Sun 18/10/2009 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: time to cover airplanes/ wings
One more thing the Tri-Champ is NOT the ugliest plane, the Tri-Pacer is.
I've got about 200hrs in one and it is still ugly. Often called the
flying milk stool.
Do not archive
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Message 7
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Subject: | time to cover airplanes/ wings |
Nope the Tri-Pacer is uglier. OK I'll comprimise=2C Thery're both FUGLY.
do notr archive
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: time to cover airplanes/ wings
> Date: Sun=2C 18 Oct 2009 11:37:22 -0400
> From: eng@canadianrogers.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Sorry=2C but Mike is right about the Tri-Champ.
> The Tri-Pacer is gawky=2C but the Tri-Champ is U G L Y.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Doug Dever
> Sent: Sun 18/10/2009 6:29 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: time to cover airplanes/ wings
>
>
>
>
> One more thing the Tri-Champ is NOT the ugliest plane=2C the Tri-Pacer is
. I've got about 200hrs in one and it is still ugly. Often called the flyin
g milk stool.
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings |
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Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler's Piets |
Jack, you are correct. Vi is has a timing problem. He believes the timing gear
is off one tooth. He plans to check and repair over the winter. Should be
ready to fly in the spring.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268422#268422
Message 10
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Subject: | time to cover airplanes/ wings |
Guys! C'mon! They're airplanes. By definition, like babies, they are all
beautiful, even though some are more beautiful than others.
[ snippage]
Nope the Tri-Pacer is uglier. OK I'll comprimise, Thery're both FUGLY.
[more snippage]
> Sorry, but Mike is right about the Tri-Champ.
> The Tri-Pacer is gawky, but the Tri-Champ is U G L Y.
[still more snippage]
>
> One more thing the Tri-Champ is NOT the ugliest plane, the Tri-Pacer is.
I've got about 200hrs in one and it is still ugly. Often called the flying
milk stool.
>
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Subject: | time to cover airplanes/ wings |
You have a point. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However=2C In 20
0+hrs of holding the yoke of a Tri-Pacer I found no beauty in looking at it
=2C but found great beauty in the fact that it got me off the ground. And
the bomb proof nose gear saved my a** at least once.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: bike.mike@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: time to cover airplanes/ wings
Guys! C'mon! They're airplanes. By definition=2C like babies=2C they are
all beautiful=2C even though some are more beautiful than others.
[ snippage]
Nope the Tri-Pacer is uglier. OK I'll comprimise=2C Thery're both FUGLY.
[more snippage]
> Sorry=2C but Mike is right about the Tri-Champ.
> The Tri-Pacer is gawky=2C but the Tri-Champ is U G L Y.
[still more snippage]
>
> One more thing the Tri-Champ is NOT the ugliest plane=2C the Tri-Pacer is
. I've got about 200hrs in one and it is still ugly. Often called the flyin
g milk stool.
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection.
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
Jon,
There was a bit of discussion about tbs over on the Tailwind group on
yahoo. I think ASS has a conversion in their catalog. I will try to
look up the details for you if I can dig it up. I've already deleted
those emails.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Oct 18, 2009, at 12:30 AM, "coxwelljon"
<coxwelljon@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks Bryan,
>
> I was afraid of that. I hope I can apply some of my architectural
> structures to aeronautical engineering. I was hoping that since
> there are some airplanes flying around with wooden struts that
> someone may have already done the calculations.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268379#268379
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Markle's photos and Ford Piets |
Thats okay Gary, keep the goal in mind. I'm trying to so I can be flying wingman
with you.
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Oct 17, 2009, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
Jack,
I was going to say that, "Now, you're just bragging!" But, as they say, it's
not bragging if you can do it...good for you!
For the most part, my wife leaves me alone about the plane, but I made the
mistake the other day of letting her overhear my plans of flying to Brodhead
in 2011...and here we go....the kitchen remodel, painting the house, the
money, the job....yada, yada, yada....
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down...)
_____________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Markle's photos and Ford Piets
Dan, just let her know that women have gotten themselves divorced for less
(I've done it twice). Suggest that she might want to learn to fly, so you
are not so inclined to stray. Point out how much fun it is to have your
wife go on a Pietenpol cross country with you. My wife has done one (from
Raleigh to Dulles International) and the discomfort and misery of that
experience has faded to the point that she's beginning to talk about flying
it down to Sun 'n' Fun with me next April.
Here she is as we prepared to take off from Dulles (IAD)
And here we were, waiting for the crowds of kids at the Udvar Hazy museum:
As you can see I finally found a good one - a wife that enjoys flying. The
first two pretended to enjoy it until they got a ring on their finger, then
never flew again.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Markle's photos and Ford Piets
Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> All I can say is do your best to make the plane a pleasant experience. Get
the kids/grandkids involved, invite her to the airport on pretty days for
nice events. IF she will go up with you, keep the flight short 15-20 Min and
only take her up in still air. Don't let her think that it competes with her
for your time/attention.
>
> Lots of luck with that!
> Steve D (with and understanding wife who still wants more of my time.)
>
That's sound advice, Steve. The girls are all over the airplane thing
literally and figuratively, already:
Claire: http://5n429glenoak.homelinux.net/gallery/2009_07/img_0165
Sophie: http://5n429glenoak.homelinux.net/gallery/2009_07/img_0160
Which does not please my wife much.
At the MAAC fly-in a few weeks ago, I asked Rob Bach to take her for a
flight in his Piet. First thing I asked her when she came down was,
"How was it?" "Great! I loved it." "Oh, really? Then it's not such a
bad thing that I own of these things?" "Uh, um, it was ok... just ok."
Apparently, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.
At least I got myself a nice airplane and I can already see my daughters
getting into the more pleasurable aspects of aviation. Hopefully, my
wife'll come around, eventually.
I'm hoping a couple more trips to Brodhead will help change her
currently distorted view of the aviation community: we both have a
pretty bad taste in our mouth after my stint with a local gliding club.
Don't get me wrong, there are some super people in the club, but there
were a few who were a little high themselves and they really ruined the
experience for a bunch of us. I am continually impressed by the high
quality of the people in the Pietenpol community, especially this
mailing list and forum.
I probably haven't said this nearly enough in the past months, but thank
you, thank you, thank you, one and all for giving freely of your
knowledge and experience and bearing with my nearly incessant nattering
about things that are, in hindsight, completely trivial. You are all
top-notch folks, in my most humble opinion.
Cheers,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
do not archive
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Subject: | Re: lift struts for GN-1 /Pietenpol |
RE: [TailwindForum] Streamline Tubing
Out of acs cat.
Major
Axis
Minor
Axis
Wall
Equiv.
Round Tubing
Tens. - Compr.
Wt./Ft.
Part No.
Price
Buy
1.012
0.428
.035
3/4
1/2
0.269
03-11300
$24.50
1.180
0.500
.035
7/8
7/16
0.314
03-11400
$14.25
1.349
0.571
.049
1
5/8
0.498
03-11500
$15.75
1.685
0.714
.049
1-1/4
3/4
0.629
03-11600
$37.50
2.023
0.857
.049
1-1/2
1
0.759
03-11700
$26.85
2.360
1.000
.049
1-3/4
1-18
0.890
03-11800
$28.50
2.697
1.143
.065
2
1-1/4
1.021
03-11900
$43.75
3.372
1.429
.049
2-1/2
1-1/2
1.283
03-12000
$45.50
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Oct 16, 2009, at 11:19 PM, "coxwelljon"
<coxwelljon@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> >
>
> What is the correct size for ROUND lift struts.
>
> I know this has been discussed and I have looked back in the
> archives but really did not find an answer to my question?
>
> When I purchased my project it came with 2 complete sets of struts.
> One set which is round and a set of cub struts that were shortened.
> At first I was delighted with the cub struts but the shortening was
> done right in the middle and the cut and weld was done perpendicular
> to the strut rather than on a diagonal. I do not know what the
> lower ends are like as they are now sealed.
>
> There is a big difference in the weight of the 2 sets and I am
> leaning toward ROUND struts with fairings but cannot find a size for
> this option on either the GN-1 plans or the Pietenpol plans. I
> could do engineering calculations if need be, but would rather not
> re-invent the wheel.
>
> Any help out there?
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268300#268300
>
>
Message 15
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Hello good people. Since I started my build I was curious to see how my widening
was going to work out. I got the chance to find out today.
I finally decided to try her on for size and let me tell you the first time sitting
in my Piet fuse was great.
I spent about an hour sittin in the back pit. I sure wished I smoked it felt that
good. Not ready to make airplane noises yet but I did some real good basement
flying
She measures 27" on the inside, plenty or room for me and a jacket, legs etc.....
Fits great
John
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
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Subject: | Re: A first for me |
Awesome John! I think that a mock fuse will be one of my winter projects.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268473#268473
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: A first for me |
The 27" wide is really great as a wide glide goes. I highly recommend it. Hard
to believe and no mock up just the naked grease adventure at Makles did the trick.
And told me something about the company I keep.
I mean that in the nicest possible way.
Just got home and looking forward to Catoosa week of the 26th all remains on schedule
on this end
John
John
John
------Original Message------
From: Mark Chunard
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Oct 18, 2009 10:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A first for me
Awesome John! I think that a mock fuse will be one of my winter projects.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=268473#268473
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: time to cover airplanes/ wings |
I've got to agree with Mike on this one. The Tri-Champ is just a
horrifically bad mod of a really nice design.
At least with the Tri-Pod it is so ugly and quirky that it sort of comes
back around to being cute again; like an ugly red-headed stepchild. I have a
good number of hours in a Tri-Pacer (maybe not 200+, but plenty), and it is
great airplane. It is a tremendous value for a four place 'gettin around'
airplane. And it is kinda cool in it's own ugly way. The Tri-Champ....it's
just a shame. I just feel bad for the airplane looking at one. :P
G'nite all!
Ryan
In noisy, corrupt, crime-ridden Chicago Illinois
do not archive
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wrote:
> You have a point. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, In
> 200+hrs of holding the yoke of a Tri-Pacer I found no beauty in looking at
> it, but found great beauty in the fact that it got me off the ground. And
> the bomb proof nose gear saved my a** at least once.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
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