---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/28/09: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:21 AM - 106 years ago today-prelude to flight (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 05:02 AM - exhaust manifold [was Re: humped center section] (tkreiner) 3. 05:12 AM - Re: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight (Wayne Bressler) 4. 05:54 AM - Re: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight (Jack Phillips) 5. 06:19 AM - Re: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight (Jeff Boatright) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight (Ryan Mueller) 7. 07:10 AM - Re: exhaust manifold [was Re: humped center section] (Doug Dever) 8. 08:06 AM - Re: exhaust manifold VHT header paint, ceramicoat (shad bell) 9. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: exhaust manifold VHT header paint, ceramicoat (Jack Phillips) 10. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: exhaust manifold VHT header paint, ceramicoat (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 11. 08:13 PM - Re: exhaust manifold [was Re: humped center section] (Darrel Jones) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight From: helspersew@aol.com >From the diary of Orville Wright: Wednesday, October 28, 1903 Kitty Hawk, N.C. Spratt and I passed a very miserable night on account of cold. We worked today on front rudder frame and uprights between rudder surfaces till dinner at one o'clock. We spent afternoon in making a stove out of a carbide can and putting it up. Tonight we are very comfortable. Spratt put window in southwest corner of building. Dan struck on account of havi ng to bring in wood for stove and left at 3 o'clock. " ........about the only news is that of the strike last Wednesday. I bel ieve I told you that about two weeks after we got here Dan came down one Monday morning with the news that the price of fish had gone up, and that he would like to know how long we expected to stay, and as to whether we were depending on him for help. Well, what it finally sifted down to was a demand for an increase of wages with the condition that we we were to pay him by the week (seven dollars. Regular wages down here from $3.50 to $4.50 per week), whether we had work for him or not. We agreed to this on condition that he stay with us as long as we remained, and that he appear for work every morning promptly at 8 o'clock, and work 10 hours. We volun teered to allow him one hour a day for getting back and forth from work, and to furnish him his dinner. Of course we had no work for him excepting to do up the morning and noon dishes, with about a half day a week on the hills gliding. Whenever we set him at any work about the building, he wou ld do so much damage with his awkwardness that we found it more profitable to let him sit around. Of course he was soon spoiled, and even went so fa r as to complain when any work was wanted on the hill. No trouble develope d, however, until the early part of this week when a cold snap struck us. When Will told him to go over to the beach, and get some driftwood he str uck, saying he wouldn't do it, as it was not reasonable when we could buy a cord for $3.00 of Jesse Baum. The result was he took his hat and left for home. " (Orville Wright to Katherine Wright, Nov. 1, 1903) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: exhaust manifold [was Re: humped center section] From: "tkreiner" Doug, DON'T attempt to weld Titanium with an oxyacetylene rig UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. When Ti is ignited, it burns with a white flame, way above 2500 degrees, and can ignite anything in it's vicinity. If it's to be welded it MUST be done in an inert atmosphere, as with Mig or Tig. My .02. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269801#269801 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:47 AM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight I would have gathered all the driftwood in North Carolina just to have been involved with the Wright brothers in 1903. I guess somepeople were lazy and unmotivated back then, too. Just imagine what this fellow would have been like with a TV or video game system! Do not archive. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Oct 28, 2009, at 7:20 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > From the diary of Orville Wright: > > Wednesday, October 28, 1903 > Kitty Hawk, N.C. > > Spratt and I passed a very miserable night on account of cold. > We worked today on front rudder frame and uprights between rudder > surfaces till dinner at one o'clock. We spent afternoon in making a > stove out of a carbide can and putting it up. Tonight we are very > comfortable. Spratt put window in southwest corner of building. Dan > struck on account of having to bring in wood for stove and left at 3 > o'clock. > > " ........about the only news is that of the strike last Wednesday. > I believe I told you that about two weeks after we got here Dan came > down one Monday morning with the news that the price of fish had > gone up, and that he would like to know how long we expected to > stay, and as to whether we were depending on him for help. Well, > what it finally sifted down to was a demand for an increase of wages > with the condition that we we were to pay him by the week (seven > dollars. Regular wages down here from $3.50 to $4.50 per week), > whether we had work for him or not. We agreed to this on condition > that he stay with us as long as we remained, and that he appear for > work every morning promptly at 8 o'clock, and work 10 hours. We > volunteered to allow him one hour a day for getting back and forth > from work, and to furnish him his dinner. Of course we had no work > for him excepting to do up the morning and noon dishes, with about a > half day a week on the hills gliding. Whenever we set him at any > work about the building, he would do so much damage with his > awkwardness that we found it more profitable to let him sit around. > Of course he was soon spoiled, and even went so far as to complain > when any work was wanted on the hill. No trouble developed, however, > until the early part of this week when a cold snap struck us. When > Will told him to go over to the beach, and get some driftwood he > struck, saying he wouldn't do it, as it was not reasonable when we > could buy a cord for $3.00 of Jesse Baum. The result was he took his > hat and left for home. " (Orville Wright to Katherine Wright, Nov. > 1, 1903) > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:33 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight Durned no good North Carolinians. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC Do Not Archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 7:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight >From the diary of Orville Wright: Wednesday, October 28, 1903 Kitty Hawk, N.C. Spratt and I passed a very miserable night on account of cold. We worked today on front rudder frame and uprights between rudder surfaces till dinner at one o'clock. We spent afternoon in making a stove out of a carbide can and putting it up. Tonight we are very comfortable. Spratt put window in southwest corner of building. Dan struck on account of having to bring in wood for stove and left at 3 o'clock. " ........about the only news is that of the strike last Wednesday. I believe I told you that about two weeks after we got here Dan came down one Monday morning with the news that the price of fish had gone up, and that he would like to know how long we expected to stay, and as to whether we were depending on him for help. Well, what it finally sifted down to was a demand for an increase of wages with the condition that we we were to pay him by the week (seven dollars. Regular wages down here from $3.50 to $4.50 per week), whether we had work for him or not. We agreed to this on condition that he stay with us as long as we remained, and that he appear for work every morning promptly at 8 o'clock, and work 10 hours. We volunteered to allow him one hour a day for getting back and forth from work, and to furnish him his dinner. Of course we had no work for him excepting to do up the morning and noon dishes, with about a half day a week on the hills gliding. Whenever we set him at any work about the building, he would do so much damage with his awkwardness that we found it more profitable to let him sit around. Of course he was soon spoiled, and even went so far as to complain when any work was wanted on the hill. No trouble developed, however, until the early part of this week when a cold snap struck us. When Will told him to go over to the beach, and get some driftwood he struck, saying he wouldn't do it, as it was not reasonable when we could buy a cord for $3.00 of Jesse Baum. The result was he took his hat and left for home. " (Orville Wright to Katherine Wright, Nov. 1, 1903) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:38 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight What, are you some kinda Blue Devils fan? >Durned no good North Carolinians=8A > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 106 years ago today-prelude to flight From: Ryan Mueller Go Dooley? do not archive On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Jeff Boatright wrote: > What, are you some kinda Blue Devils fan? > > > Durned no good North Carolinians=C5- > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:57 AM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: exhaust manifold [was Re: humped center section] Tom=2C Din't realize I put Ti in with gas welding. would be kinda like trying to weld Magnesium. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: exhaust manifold [was Re: humped center section] > From: tkreiner@gmail.com > Date: Wed=2C 28 Oct 2009 05:02:03 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Doug=2C > > DON'T attempt to weld Titanium with an oxyacetylene rig UNDER ANY CIRCUMS TANCES. > > When Ti is ignited=2C it burns with a white flame=2C way above 2500 degre es=2C and can ignite anything in it's vicinity. If it's to be welded it MUS T be done in an inert atmosphere=2C as with Mig or Tig. > > My .02. > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269801#269801 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T: WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:15 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: exhaust manifold VHT header paint, ceramicoat Jack and others, have any of you considered ceramicoating (cost?)-your pl ain steel exaust?- I have thought about doing that to any future -exaus ts I may need to build.- Another option is to use VHT exaust header paint and bake it in the oven when the old lady is gone.- I did this with the piet intake and exaust this past spring just to spruce it up a bit.- The exaust is s.s. and the intake is just mild steel tube.- It is holding up well on both, but my guess is mild steel exaust would rust from the inside out due to corrosive properties of exsaust gasses. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:06 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: RE: exhaust manifold VHT header paint, ceramicoat I used clear VHT paint on the exhust, but it wouldn't fit in the oven so I never got the full effect of it. It lasted well for about 4 years but is beginning to rust now. I thought about pulling the exhaust and beadblasting it and then repainting but being the lazy sort, I just sorta ignored it. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: exhaust manifold VHT header paint, ceramicoat Jack and others, have any of you considered ceramicoating (cost?) your plain steel exaust? I have thought about doing that to any future exausts I may need to build. Another option is to use VHT exaust header paint and bake it in the oven when the old lady is gone. I did this with the piet intake and exaust this past spring just to spruce it up a bit. The exaust is s.s. and the intake is just mild steel tube. It is holding up well on both, but my guess is mild steel exaust would rust from the inside out due to corrosive properties of exsaust gasses. Shad ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:16 AM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: RE: exhaust manifold VHT header paint, ceramicoat I had the exhaust on my powered parachute ceramic coated about 8 years ago, still going strong and still looks good. Brian SLC, UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: exhaust manifold VHT header paint, ceramicoat Jack and others, have any of you considered ceramicoating (cost?) your plain steel exaust? I have thought about doing that to any future exausts I may need to build. Another option is to use VHT exaust header paint and bake it in the oven when the old lady is gone. I did this with the piet intake and exaust this past spring just to spruce it up a bit. The exaust is s.s. and the intake is just mild steel tube. It is holding up well on both, but my guess is mild steel exaust would rust from the inside out due to corrosive properties of exsaust gasses. Shad ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:56 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: exhaust manifold [was Re: Pietenpol-List: humped center section] Jack and the group, That's the way they weld stainless transfer lines at the wineries. They have a plug to attach the argon on one end and put foil over the other and keep a positive pressure going during the welding to ensure the interior is inert. Of course, the wine never gets as hot as our exhausts, but after a glass or two the pilots feels much warmer. Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA NX154JP Jack Phillips wrote: > > For those contemplating stainless steel ehaust systems, let me share a > little pearl of wisdom that I learned just a bit too late: > > My original exhaust system on my Pietenpol was TIG welded stainless steel, > welded by my neighbor (who also welded my aluminum fuel tank). The welds > looked good, but after about 30 hours of operation, the left stack broke off > and was only kept from departing the airplane by the SCAT hose on the heat > muff. I had my neighbor re-weld it, with an additional strut to help > distribute the load. Then I flew the airplane to Brodhead and OSH (this was > in 2005). On the way home, the right side stack broke off and was again > held in place by the SCAT hose. I had to find a local welder make emergency > repairs so I could make it home. > > I decided that stainless was simply not a good choice and made a whole new > set from plain carbon steel, which I could weld myself. No problem with it, > except that it has begun to rust. In another 10 years or so I'll have to > replace it. > > Meanwhile, I was talking to a fellow who makes exhaust systems for race cars > (TIG welded stainless), telling him of my troubles. He asked "What did you > do to shield the inside of the tubing?" > > I just looked at him with a stupid look on my face (fairly easy for me to > do), and said "Huh?" > > He said, "TIG shields the area around the weld with argon gas to prevent the > weld from burning, but with such thin walled material, the metal on the > inside of the tube is just as hot as the outside. You've got to shield it > as well." > > He said that when he does a job like this, he plugs one end of the tube, > then turns on the gas from the TIG torch and uses it to flood the entire > tube with Argon. He tests to see if he has enough by striking a match and > inserting it into the tube. If it doesn't go out immediately, he knows he > doesn't have enough Argon to shield the weld. > > So when it comes time to replace my exhaust system again, I may give > stainless another try, using this technique. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.