Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:23 AM - Contributions Down By 21%... (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:54 AM - Re: Certified Engine question (Dan Yocum)
2. 07:30 AM - Re: Certified Engine question (David Paule)
3. 07:54 AM - Re: Certified Engine question (Gene Rambo)
4. 08:05 AM - Re: Certified Engine question (David Paule)
5. 12:22 PM - Re: Piet Flying (Dan Yocum)
6. 01:06 PM - Re: Piet Flying (Perry Rhoads)
7. 04:55 PM - Interesting conversation... (Jim Markle)
8. 05:41 PM - Re: Piet Flying (Al Bane)
9. 06:23 PM - Re: Piet Flying (Jason Holmes)
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| Subject: | Contributions Down By 21%... |
Dear Listers,
As of today, contributions to the Matronics List Fund Raiser are lagging behind
last year at this time by 21%. I have a fund raiser each year simply to cover
my operating costs for the Lists. I *do not* accept any advertising income
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Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Certified Engine question |
Ben,
I am not an A&P, but during a conversation with a local small
Continental demi-guru, he mentioned that he found a document that says
that the compressions on an A-65 arn't considered out-of-spec until they
hits 8lbs. Count 'em. 8. That sounds unbelievable to me, so check
with your local A&P or drop Harry Fenton a line - he *is* Mr. Small
Continental engine guru, and is generally pretty responsive to such
questions. Looks like he's got a full section on compressions in his FAQ:
http://bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#compression_limits
Cheers,
Dan
Ben Charvet wrote:
>
> I had installed a used Continental A-65 on my recently finished
> project. In the process of getting ready for my airworthiness
> inspection with the FAA we did a compression test and found one cylinder
> to be low(35/80). The engine ran great but did have a lot of blow-by.
> Oil pressure was appx 25 at idle and mid 30's above 1200 rpm. I pulled
> the weak cylinder and found that the #1 rod bearing has excessive wear.
> I mean like you can do the push pull thing and feel slop. The engine
> came with log books, was 1500 SMOH, but I was hoping to get through
> phase 1 flight testing, since the logbook compressions were all good.
> Basically I understand now the engine needs a total rebuild.
>
> So here is my question.. I am no an A&P, but have lots of experience
> rebuilding engines of both air cooled and water cooled all in
> automobiles. I'm confident I can do this myself. I already had started
> overhauling parts prior to finding this engine and have a rebuilt case,
> crank, and cam. I've been told that to call my engine a Continental
> A-65 and leave the data plate on, that all this work would need to be
> signed off by an A&P. I have a certified Sensenich wood prop installed
> and was hoping for a 25 hr Phase 1. All the paperwork is already sent
> in the the FAA and the inspection is scheduled for Dec 4. So if I do
> this work myself , do I call it a Ben Charvet 65 HP? Bet that would
> drive the insurance folks nuts.
>
> I also have one other option. I have my trusty old Baby Ace that is in
> bad need of a restoration, but has a 350 SMOH A-75 with a McCaulley
> metal prop (would help my W&B). I was really hoping to keep flying the
> Baby Ace right up till my first flight in the Piet, but I could just
> swap that engine on, change the paperwork with the FAA, and rebuild the
> A-65 at my convenience while restoring the Baby Ace at some later date.
> I was really hoping to sell the Baby Ace, but its not worth more than
> its engine/prop anyway.
>
> This is without a doubt the longest post I've ever made, but this is a
> tough choice.
>
> My main question is: If a non-certified mechanic rebuilds a certified
> engine, can you legally leave the data plate on? Is it still a
> Continental A-65 legally as far as the FAA/Insurance companies are
> concerned?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ben Charvet
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Certified Engine question |
There's a Continental service bulletin, M84-15, that says that the
compression needs to be referenced to the "Master Orfice Tool," part
number 646953-A. They sell the tool, it's a bar with female spark plug
threads at each end and a calibrated orfice in the middle. The idea is
that you hook up the compressor to it and with the regulator gauge set
to exactly 80 psi, using the tool, the cylinder gauge ought to show 40
to 50 psi. If it doesn't the differential tester is out of calibration
and can't be used.
You'll have to refer to the service bulletin for more details.
Back about 20 years ago, mine cost around $40. Nicely made tool in a
plastic case. Not something you'd find at Home Depot.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum@fnal.gov>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Certified Engine question
>
> Ben,
>
> I am not an A&P, but during a conversation with a local small
> Continental demi-guru, he mentioned that he found a document that says
> that the compressions on an A-65 arn't considered out-of-spec until
they
> hits 8lbs. Count 'em. 8. That sounds unbelievable to me, so check
> with your local A&P or drop Harry Fenton a line - he *is* Mr. Small
> Continental engine guru, and is generally pretty responsive to such
> questions. Looks like he's got a full section on compressions in his
FAQ:
>
> http://bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#compression_limits
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
>
>
> Ben Charvet wrote:
<bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> I had installed a used Continental A-65 on my recently finished
>> project. In the process of getting ready for my airworthiness
>> inspection with the FAA we did a compression test and found one
cylinder
>> to be low(35/80). The engine ran great but did have a lot of
blow-by.
>> Oil pressure was appx 25 at idle and mid 30's above 1200 rpm. I
pulled
>> the weak cylinder and found that the #1 rod bearing has excessive
wear.
>> I mean like you can do the push pull thing and feel slop. The engine
>> came with log books, was 1500 SMOH, but I was hoping to get through
>> phase 1 flight testing, since the logbook compressions were all good.
>> Basically I understand now the engine needs a total rebuild.
>>
>> So here is my question.. I am no an A&P, but have lots of experience
>> rebuilding engines of both air cooled and water cooled all in
>> automobiles. I'm confident I can do this myself. I already had
started
>> overhauling parts prior to finding this engine and have a rebuilt
case,
>> crank, and cam. I've been told that to call my engine a Continental
>> A-65 and leave the data plate on, that all this work would need to be
>> signed off by an A&P. I have a certified Sensenich wood prop
installed
>> and was hoping for a 25 hr Phase 1. All the paperwork is already
sent
>> in the the FAA and the inspection is scheduled for Dec 4. So if I do
>> this work myself , do I call it a Ben Charvet 65 HP? Bet that would
>> drive the insurance folks nuts.
>>
>> I also have one other option. I have my trusty old Baby Ace that is
in
>> bad need of a restoration, but has a 350 SMOH A-75 with a McCaulley
>> metal prop (would help my W&B). I was really hoping to keep flying
the
>> Baby Ace right up till my first flight in the Piet, but I could just
>> swap that engine on, change the paperwork with the FAA, and rebuild
the
>> A-65 at my convenience while restoring the Baby Ace at some later
date.
>> I was really hoping to sell the Baby Ace, but its not worth more than
>> its engine/prop anyway.
>>
>> This is without a doubt the longest post I've ever made, but this is
a
>> tough choice.
>>
>> My main question is: If a non-certified mechanic rebuilds a
certified
>> engine, can you legally leave the data plate on? Is it still a
>> Continental A-65 legally as far as the FAA/Insurance companies are
>> concerned?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ben Charvet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Certified Engine question |
Not quite right. When you use the master orifice tool, once you set
your tester to input 80 psi, you use the number you get as the new
minimum. It does not mean that you can't use your tester, just that you
have derived a new minimum psi based on the master orifice tool.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David Paule<mailto:dpaule@frii.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Certified Engine question
=EF=BB
There's a Continental service bulletin, M84-15, that says that the
compression needs to be referenced to the "Master Orfice Tool," part
number 646953-A. They sell the tool, it's a bar with female spark plug
threads at each end and a calibrated orfice in the middle. The idea is
that you hook up the compressor to it and with the regulator gauge set
to exactly 80 psi, using the tool, the cylinder gauge ought to show 40
to 50 psi. If it doesn't the differential tester is out of calibration
and can't be used.
You'll have to refer to the service bulletin for more details.
Back about 20 years ago, mine cost around $40. Nicely made tool in a
plastic case. Not something you'd find at Home Depot.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum@fnal.gov>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Certified Engine question
>
> Ben,
>
> I am not an A&P, but during a conversation with a local small
> Continental demi-guru, he mentioned that he found a document that
says
> that the compressions on an A-65 arn't considered out-of-spec until
they
> hits 8lbs. Count 'em. 8. That sounds unbelievable to me, so check
> with your local A&P or drop Harry Fenton a line - he *is* Mr. Small
> Continental engine guru, and is generally pretty responsive to such
> questions. Looks like he's got a full section on compressions in
his FAQ:
>
> http://bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#compression_limits
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
>
>
> Ben Charvet wrote:
<bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> I had installed a used Continental A-65 on my recently finished
>> project. In the process of getting ready for my airworthiness
>> inspection with the FAA we did a compression test and found one
cylinder
>> to be low(35/80). The engine ran great but did have a lot of
blow-by.
>> Oil pressure was appx 25 at idle and mid 30's above 1200 rpm. I
pulled
>> the weak cylinder and found that the #1 rod bearing has excessive
wear.
>> I mean like you can do the push pull thing and feel slop. The
engine
>> came with log books, was 1500 SMOH, but I was hoping to get through
>> phase 1 flight testing, since the logbook compressions were all
good.
>> Basically I understand now the engine needs a total rebuild.
>>
>> So here is my question.. I am no an A&P, but have lots of
experience
>> rebuilding engines of both air cooled and water cooled all in
>> automobiles. I'm confident I can do this myself. I already had
started
>> overhauling parts prior to finding this engine and have a rebuilt
case,
>> crank, and cam. I've been told that to call my engine a
Continental
>> A-65 and leave the data plate on, that all this work would need to
be
>> signed off by an A&P. I have a certified Sensenich wood prop
installed
>> and was hoping for a 25 hr Phase 1. All the paperwork is already
sent
>> in the the FAA and the inspection is scheduled for Dec 4. So if I
do
>> this work myself , do I call it a Ben Charvet 65 HP? Bet that
would
>> drive the insurance folks nuts.
>>
>> I also have one other option. I have my trusty old Baby Ace that
is in
>> bad need of a restoration, but has a 350 SMOH A-75 with a McCaulley
>> metal prop (would help my W&B). I was really hoping to keep flying
the
>> Baby Ace right up till my first flight in the Piet, but I could
just
>> swap that engine on, change the paperwork with the FAA, and rebuild
the
>> A-65 at my convenience while restoring the Baby Ace at some later
date.
>> I was really hoping to sell the Baby Ace, but its not worth more
than
>> its engine/prop anyway.
>>
>> This is without a doubt the longest post I've ever made, but this
is a
>> tough choice.
>>
>> My main question is: If a non-certified mechanic rebuilds a
certified
>> engine, can you legally leave the data plate on? Is it still a
>> Continental A-65 legally as far as the FAA/Insurance companies are
>> concerned?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ben Charvet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
>
> ==========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free
www.aeroelectric.com
> HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp;
> Pietenpol-List Un/Subscription,
> --> ==========
> bsp; via the ==========
>
>
>
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Certified Engine question |
Well, that's what I was tryin' to say. Thanks for making it a lot
clearer!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Certified Engine question
Not quite right. When you use the master orifice tool, once you set
your tester to input 80 psi, you use the number you get as the new
minimum. It does not mean that you can't use your tester, just that you
have derived a new minimum psi based on the master orifice tool.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: David Paule
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Certified Engine question
=EF=BB
There's a Continental service bulletin, M84-15, that says that the
compression needs to be referenced to the "Master Orfice Tool," part
number 646953-A. They sell the tool, it's a bar with female spark plug
threads at each end and a calibrated orfice in the middle. The idea is
that you hook up the compressor to it and with the regulator gauge set
to exactly 80 psi, using the tool, the cylinder gauge ought to show 40
to 50 psi. If it doesn't the differential tester is out of calibration
and can't be used.
You'll have to refer to the service bulletin for more details.
Back about 20 years ago, mine cost around $40. Nicely made tool in a
plastic case. Not something you'd find at Home Depot.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum@fnal.gov>
To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Certified Engine question
>
> Ben,
>
> I am not an A&P, but during a conversation with a local small
> Continental demi-guru, he mentioned that he found a document that
says
> that the compressions on an A-65 arn't considered out-of-spec
until they
> hits 8lbs. Count 'em. 8. That sounds unbelievable to me, so
check
> with your local A&P or drop Harry Fenton a line - he *is* Mr.
Small
> Continental engine guru, and is generally pretty responsive to
such
> questions. Looks like he's got a full section on compressions in
his FAQ:
>
> http://bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#compression_limits
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
>
>
> Ben Charvet wrote:
<bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> I had installed a used Continental A-65 on my recently finished
>> project. In the process of getting ready for my airworthiness
>> inspection with the FAA we did a compression test and found one
cylinder
>> to be low(35/80). The engine ran great but did have a lot of
blow-by.
>> Oil pressure was appx 25 at idle and mid 30's above 1200 rpm. I
pulled
>> the weak cylinder and found that the #1 rod bearing has excessive
wear.
>> I mean like you can do the push pull thing and feel slop. The
engine
>> came with log books, was 1500 SMOH, but I was hoping to get
through
>> phase 1 flight testing, since the logbook compressions were all
good.
>> Basically I understand now the engine needs a total rebuild.
>>
>> So here is my question.. I am no an A&P, but have lots of
experience
>> rebuilding engines of both air cooled and water cooled all in
>> automobiles. I'm confident I can do this myself. I already had
started
>> overhauling parts prior to finding this engine and have a rebuilt
case,
>> crank, and cam. I've been told that to call my engine a
Continental
>> A-65 and leave the data plate on, that all this work would need
to be
>> signed off by an A&P. I have a certified Sensenich wood prop
installed
>> and was hoping for a 25 hr Phase 1. All the paperwork is already
sent
>> in the the FAA and the inspection is scheduled for Dec 4. So if
I do
>> this work myself , do I call it a Ben Charvet 65 HP? Bet that
would
>> drive the insurance folks nuts.
>>
>> I also have one other option. I have my trusty old Baby Ace that
is in
>> bad need of a restoration, but has a 350 SMOH A-75 with a
McCaulley
>> metal prop (would help my W&B). I was really hoping to keep
flying the
>> Baby Ace right up till my first flight in the Piet, but I could
just
>> swap that engine on, change the paperwork with the FAA, and
rebuild the
>> A-65 at my convenience while restoring the Baby Ace at some later
date.
>> I was really hoping to sell the Baby Ace, but its not worth more
than
>> its engine/prop anyway.
>>
>> This is without a doubt the longest post I've ever made, but this
is a
>> tough choice.
>>
>> My main question is: If a non-certified mechanic rebuilds a
certified
>> engine, can you legally leave the data plate on? Is it still a
>> Continental A-65 legally as far as the FAA/Insurance companies
are
>> concerned?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ben Charvet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
>
> ==========
> Support Your Lists This Month --
> Get Some the Annual Contribution link Terrific Free
www.aeroelectric.com
> HomebuiltHELP Contribution Web bsp;
> Pietenpol-List Un/Subscription,
> --> ==========
> bsp; via the ==========
>
>
>
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 5
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Very nice, sir, very nice.
That's a spiffy hat, too. Where'd ya get it?
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 6
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AS&S. 35 bucks, I think......................
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum@fnal.gov>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Flying
>
> Very nice, sir, very nice.
>
> That's a spiffy hat, too. Where'd ya get it?
>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Interesting conversation... |
On Saturday we happened to see a "car show" in a little town (Adair, OK) a few
miles from our home. So we stopped to check it out.
Well I start talking to this fellow with a beautiful 1940's flathead Ford truck.
I mentioned that I was going to paint my airplane some of the same colors he
had used on his truck. I told him it was going to be "A" powered and he asked
if I was building a Pietenpol. Out of the blue.....I could NOT believe it.
I soon discover he knows a lot about airplanes. In fact, his son flys for FedEx.
I asked him if he was a pilot also and he said no but his last name is Stinson
and he's been around airplanes all his life. I should have asked more about
that....
He told me about an article in the October 2009 Flying Magazine that has a picture
of a Pietenpol. It's a small article but interesting to see a Pietenpol illustration
at the start of the article....
Anyway, check it out: http://www.flyingmag.com/unusualattitudes/1805/why-im-not-a-junior-leaguer.html
Jim in DC....looking forward to getting home this weekend to work on my Pietenpol!!
Message 8
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Perry,
Nice pics.
Hopefully we'll have another Piet flying at Litchfield in the next couple years.
I bought a project from Bill See in Ohio this weekend and brought it home.
Long fuselage (2 in added width), tail feathers and wing ribs are done. I've
got spars and wing struts. It's in my garage now, but will move it to Litchfield
as soon as our new hangars are done in the spring.
Al Bane
-----Original Message-----
>From: Perry Rhoads <prhoads61@frontiernet.net>
>Sent: Nov 15, 2009 10:02 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Flying
>
>Just a few random Pietenpol flying pictures from yesterday in central Illinois.
>
>I can't let this thing sit in the hangar all winter !!!
>
>Perry Rhoads
>N12939
>
Message 9
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Al,
I saw the project at Bill's on Saturday, looked like a good buy to me. Bill is
my flight instructor and on Saturday we got to take off right before Shad in
his Corvair powered Piet. It was certainly a great day for flying and really
enjoyed seeing Shad's Aircamper. Enjoy your new project.
Jason Holmes
Project status: studying plans
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al Bane
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Flying
Perry,
Nice pics.
Hopefully we'll have another Piet flying at Litchfield in the next couple years.
I bought a project from Bill See in Ohio this weekend and brought it home.
Long fuselage (2 in added width), tail feathers and wing ribs are done. I've
got spars and wing struts. It's in my garage now, but will move it to Litchfield
as soon as our new hangars are done in the spring.
Al Bane
-----Original Message-----
>From: Perry Rhoads <prhoads61@frontiernet.net>
>Sent: Nov 15, 2009 10:02 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Flying
>
>Just a few random Pietenpol flying pictures from yesterday in central Illinois.
>
>I can't let this thing sit in the hangar all winter !!!
>
>Perry Rhoads
>N12939
>
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