Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:16 AM - What's My Contribution Used For? (Matt Dralle)
1. 02:52 AM - Re: General Pietenpol questions (ivan.todorovic)
2. 05:14 AM - Re: pilots operating manual (airlion)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: What's My Contribution Used For? (Pieti Lowell)
4. 08:13 AM - shipping aluminum sheet (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 08:21 AM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (Jack Phillips)
6. 08:33 AM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (Doug Dever)
7. 09:04 AM - Re: Prop choices for A-65 (Dan Yocum)
8. 09:18 AM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (Isablcorky@aol.com)
9. 09:46 AM - Re: Prop choices for A-65 (Ryan Mueller)
10. 11:53 AM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (hvandervoo@aol.com)
11. 12:17 PM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (Gene Rambo)
12. 12:34 PM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (Roman Bukolt)
13. 12:55 PM - Re: built up spars (ivan.todorovic)
14. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: built up spars (Jim)
15. 01:11 PM - Re: Re: built up spars (Peter W Johnson)
16. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: built up spars (Peter W Johnson)
17. 01:18 PM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (hvandervoo@aol.com)
18. 01:32 PM - Re: built up spars (ivan.todorovic)
19. 01:55 PM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (Jim)
20. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: Re: built up spars (Jim)
21. 03:17 PM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (Gene Rambo)
22. 03:19 PM - Getting In (TOM STINEMETZE)
23. 03:55 PM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (Jack Phillips)
24. 05:02 PM - Re: General Pietenpol questions (njones)
25. 05:09 PM - Re: shipping aluminum sheet (David Paule)
26. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: built up spars (Peter W Johnson)
27. 07:22 PM - shipping aluminum sheet (Oscar Zuniga)
28. 07:42 PM - built up spars (Oscar Zuniga)
29. 09:22 PM - Re: built up spars (Peter W Johnson)
30. 11:47 PM - Re: Re: General Pietenpol questions (Clif Dawson)
31. 11:56 PM - Re: Upper Flying Strut Fitting, Possibe Plans Error ()
Message 0
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| Subject: | What's My Contribution Used For? |
Dear Listers,
Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question.
Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides
for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on
the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List
services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling
the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search
Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for narly 20 years (yeah, I really
said *20* years) worth of online archive data available for instant random search
and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and
maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List
Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki.
But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your
peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation,
censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places
on the Internet can you make all those statements these days?
It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable
List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one
of the best investments you can make in your Sport...
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: General Pietenpol questions |
njones wrote:
> ..., the photos of the British G-BUCO are especially inspiring.
>
To Nigel and other G-BUCO fans: did you know that G-BUCO crashed due to engine
failure? Don't worry, pilot was unhurt, and it is restored. If you want to read
the whole story you have it here:
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/#/the-club-newsletter/4533440300
Click on the "Airborne 13 Part 2" (last two pages) and "Airborne 13 Part 3" (first
two pages).
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273486#273486
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: pilots operating manual |
thanks a bunch guys. Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 10:57:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pilots operating manual
Hey, that's the one we use!
>
>Gardiner,
>
>This is the one that I've been using - modified accordingly, of course:
>
>http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html
>
>Cheers,
>Dan
>
>
>airlion wrote:
>>
>>I am looking for a POM for my Piet with a corvair engine. I heard
>>that there was one on the list that I could duplicate. Thanks,
>>Gardiner Mason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Dan Yocum
>Fermilab 630.840.6509
>yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
>"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>_
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: What's My Contribution Used For? |
Matt: I don't think many Pietenpolers realize the valuable service your lists contribute
to their needs and entertainment,
THANK YOU
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273500#273500
Message 4
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| Subject: | shipping aluminum sheet |
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | shipping aluminum sheet |
I bought a roll of .025" thick 2024T3 sheet from them and it was fine.
Heavier gages or lower yield strength grades might not fare as well.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | shipping aluminum sheet |
I've rolled .025 for storage with no problem.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: taildrags@hotmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
> Date: Wed=2C 18 Nov 2009 10:11:08 -0600
>
>
>
>
> Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
> of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
> piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
> don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
> unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
> anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
> this way=2C and what was your experience with it?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio=2C TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for A-65 |
Ryan,
Just a follow-up to this thread...
When I was out flying last week I did some rudimentary tests to see what
kind of airspeed I was getting with my McCauley 7442 prop. Basically, I
pointed it into the wind and flew until I got a reasonably stable ground
speed with the iPhone GPS (~76mph), then turned around and took another
reading (~99mph) for an average speed of around 87.5mph full out at
2280-ish RPM.
Not bad for a draggy ole airplane.
And let me tell you it was WINDY!
:-D
Cheers,
Dan
Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Dan Y. mentioned to me that a number of people (Jeff Boatright, Gene,
> etc) are using Jay Anderson (Cloudcars) scimitar props, and they seem to
> enjoy the performance. The scimitar props do have a nice 'antiquey' look
> to them. I think 76x38 was the size they have used. Anyone with a Jay
> Anderson prop care to comment? Any ground clearance issues with the
> longer blades?
>
> What about the Sensenich are you not happy with, Jack?
>
> Ryan
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net
> <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
>
> Ive got a Sensenich 72-42 and am not all that happy with it. I
> have a St Croix 76-36 that I have never tried but will some day.
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
> *Skip Gadd
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:09 AM
>
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
>
>
>
> Ryan,
>
> Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
>
> 1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220
> if is not too hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
>
> 2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle pac up
> to 180. Curse at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
>
> Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
>
> I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
>
> Skip
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Ryan Mueller <mailto:rmueller23@gmail.com>
>
> *To: *pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:* 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
>
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
>
>
>
> Good morning all,
>
>
>
> There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop in a couple
> of weeks. I am contemplating it's future. It is complete, and
> should be a runner; however it does not come with a prop. I
> would prefer to have a wood prop on the Piet. Can those of you
> that have wood props flying on A-65's on your Pietenpol's
> comment on the make, size, and pitch that you are running, or
> you experiences in the past with varying configurations? Thanks
> much, and have a good morning.
>
>
>
> Ryan
>
> *<>*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> a>http://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: shipping aluminum sheet |
Bought a rolled sheet of .032 24ST. Be very careful, very careful when you
cut the holding tapes as that stuff will whip like the tail of a Louisiana
gator.
Corky in beee uuuu tiful Pietenpol flying weather. Where? Louisiana of
course
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Prop choices for A-65 |
Dan,
Thanks for posting your real-world numbers. Now I know what we will
have to shoot for to beat your hot-rod air racer Piet!
We decided to go with the 76x38 Jay Anderson/Cloudcars scimitar prop
that TN Gene, Jeff and others have spoken highly of. We have our
deposit in on a prop similar to Jeff's, with the dark mahogany stain
and the white tips. Should look pretty sharp.
Thanks again, and have a good day.
Ryan
Do not archive
Sent from my mobile device
On Nov 18, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> Ryan,
>
> Just a follow-up to this thread...
>
> When I was out flying last week I did some rudimentary tests to see
> what kind of airspeed I was getting with my McCauley 7442 prop.
> Basically, I pointed it into the wind and flew until I got a
> reasonably stable ground speed with the iPhone GPS (~76mph), then
> turned around and took another reading (~99mph) for an average speed
> of around 87.5mph full out at 2280-ish RPM.
>
> Not bad for a draggy ole airplane.
>
> And let me tell you it was WINDY!
>
> :-D
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
>
> Ryan Mueller wrote:
>> Dan Y. mentioned to me that a number of people (Jeff Boatright,
>> Gene, etc) are using Jay Anderson (Cloudcars) scimitar props, and
>> they seem to enjoy the performance. The scimitar props do have a
>> nice 'antiquey' look to them. I think 76x38 was the size they have
>> used. Anyone with a Jay Anderson prop care to comment? Any ground
>> clearance issues with the longer blades?
>> What about the Sensenich are you not happy with, Jack?
>> Ryan
>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net
>> <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
>> Ive got a Sensenich 72-42 and am not all that happy with it. I
>> have a St Croix 76-36 that I have never tried but will some day.
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
>> *Skip Gadd
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:09 AM
>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
>> Ryan,
>> Have had 2 props on Felix the GN-1, A-65, plane weighs 720 lbs.
>> 1. McCauley Met-L-Prop 74-43. Climbs good can handle pac up to 220
>> if is not too hot. Cruse at 2150 68 to 70 MPH. Max RPM 2375.
>> 2. Hegy I got from Don E. 72-44 Climbs not as good can handle
>> pac up
>> to 180. Curse at 1950 72 MPH. Max RPM 2150.
>> Interestingly, the plane seems to get 3.8 GPH with ether prop.
>> I would like to have a Sensenich 72-42.
>> Skip
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Ryan Mueller <mailto:rmueller23@gmail.com>
>> *To: *pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* 10/20/2009 7:59:17 AM
>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Prop choices for A-65
>> Good morning all,
>> There will be an A-65-8 making it's way to our shop
>> in a couple
>> of weeks. I am contemplating it's future. It is complete, and
>> should be a runner; however it does not come with a prop. I
>> would prefer to have a wood prop on the Piet. Can those of you
>> that have wood props flying on A-65's on your Pietenpol's
>> comment on the make, size, and pitch that you are running, or
>> you experiences in the past with varying configurations?
>> Thanks
>> much, and have a good morning.
>> Ryan
>> *<>* * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> * *
>> *
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-
>> List
>> a>http://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>> *
>> *
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: shipping aluminum sheet |
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry aircraft grad
e aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft spruce,
Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
ircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
f aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
iece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
on't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
nroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
nyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
his way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
ir Camper NX41CC
an Antonio, TX
ailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
ebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: shipping aluminum sheet |
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has
been used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a
Piet. Can buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo@aol.com<mailto:hvandervoo@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry aircraft
grade aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft
spruce, Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
<taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>>
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net<http://www.flysquirrel.net/>
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
=
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: shipping aluminum sheet |
Bill Rewey told me that the aviation grade is stiffer (different
alloy?) then Hardware grade. When used on the leading edge of the
wing, shrinking the covering will bend the softer grade more, changing
the airfoil shape between each rib and possibly the performance of the
wing. Then, again, didn't Bernard use cardboard "Oatmeal" boxes?
On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:52 PM, hvandervoo@aol.com wrote:
> What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
>
> I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
>
> But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
>
> Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry
> aircraft grade aluminum, including mill certification.
> Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft
> spruce, Wicks or Airparts
>
> Good luck
>
> Hans
> NX15KV
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
>
> >
>
>
> Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
> of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
> piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
> don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
> unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
> anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
> this way, and what was your experience with it?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> ===================================
> =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: built up spars |
vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> ...Check out the wing spar construction page on http://www.cpc-world.com
Peter's box-spar sketches joined together in single picture and cleaned in Photoshop:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273597#273597
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxsparsketch_137.jpeg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: built up spars |
Peter it would be really nice if you added that drawing to your web site. Your
web site is a very good inspiration to Piet builders as is but that would be even
better.
Thanks,
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Nov 17, 2009, Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi Guys,
I used Jim's plans for my spar.
When building, I make a quick drawing from the plans showing what I need to do
for that particular part and take that to the workshop, leaving the plans safe
in the office. I still have the notebook drawing I made to build the spars.
If I posted that on my web site, maybe people would have a better idea of what
is required. There are lots of photo's on page 4 of the builders log on the web
site. That way nobody needs to get upset.
What do you reckon??
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Wednesday, 18 November 2009 3:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
It is a civil liability issue. The USA has about 75% of the world's lawyers and
generates about 95% of the world's lawsuits. US litigants have some standing
in UK courts, unlike in many countries which turn such suits away. Jim likely
wishes to continue speaking English in England and keeping his money and sanity...
good for him.
Maybe an interested builder can get dimensions on those caps and the web of the
built-up spar from a second source ("wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more").
Tim in central TX
no relation to Jim Wills
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
>Sent: Nov 17, 2009 9:24 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
>
>
>Well, I don't see how procuring the UK plans is against the law in any
>way; Jim Wills just doesn't want to sell them to anyone here. If you
>were to acquire a set it would be against his wishes, but I highly
>doubt you would be breaking any laws.
>
>As far as holding Zenith spars up as an example of a strong, high
>quality design....you may want to reconsider that:
>
> http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-11-12_safety_alert.asp
>
>They've developed such a tendency to shed their wings/break up in
>flight that the FAA has seemingly done all they can to require or
>strongly recommend no further flight until an extensive package of
>mods are completed on existing aircraft, and will not issue
>airworthiness certificates for any new aircraft that do not have the
>mods. Too bad for the Zenith guys...
>
>Ryan
>
>Sent from my mobile device
>
>On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:32 AM, baileys <baileys@ktis.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm joining in on this one a bit. Years ago I too tried to get plans
>> for the built up spar the Brits have. As far as I as able to find out
>> there is simply no legal way of doing it and that is the end of that.
>> <snip>
>
>> Zenith Aircraft Company uses built up aluminum spars that are
>> (IMHO) probably cheaper that aircraft quality Sitka Spruce, stronger
>> and
>> weigh less too.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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Jim,
All done....
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
Peter it would be really nice if you added that drawing to your web site. Your
web site is a very good inspiration to Piet builders as is but that would be even
better.
Thanks,
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Nov 17, 2009, Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi Guys,
I used Jim's plans for my spar.
When building, I make a quick drawing from the plans showing what I need to do
for that particular part and take that to the workshop, leaving the plans safe
in the office. I still have the notebook drawing I made to build the spars.
If I posted that on my web site, maybe people would have a better idea of what
is required. There are lots of photo's on page 4 of the builders log on the web
site. That way nobody needs to get upset.
What do you reckon??
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Wednesday, 18 November 2009 3:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
It is a civil liability issue. The USA has about 75% of the world's lawyers and
generates about 95% of the world's lawsuits. US litigants have some standing
in UK courts, unlike in many countries which turn such suits away. Jim likely
wishes to continue speaking English in England and keeping his money and sanity...
good for him.
Maybe an interested builder can get dimensions on those caps and the web of the
built-up spar from a second source ("wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more").
Tim in central TX
no relation to Jim Wills
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
>Sent: Nov 17, 2009 9:24 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
>
>
>Well, I don't see how procuring the UK plans is against the law in any
>way; Jim Wills just doesn't want to sell them to anyone here. If you
>were to acquire a set it would be against his wishes, but I highly
>doubt you would be breaking any laws.
>
>As far as holding Zenith spars up as an example of a strong, high
>quality design....you may want to reconsider that:
>
> http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-11-12_safety_alert.asp
>
>They've developed such a tendency to shed their wings/break up in
>flight that the FAA has seemingly done all they can to require or
>strongly recommend no further flight until an extensive package of
>mods are completed on existing aircraft, and will not issue
>airworthiness certificates for any new aircraft that do not have the
>mods. Too bad for the Zenith guys...
>
>Ryan
>
>Sent from my mobile device
>
>On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:32 AM, baileys <baileys@ktis.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm joining in on this one a bit. Years ago I too tried to get plans
>> for the built up spar the Brits have. As far as I as able to find out
>> there is simply no legal way of doing it and that is the end of that.
>> <snip>
>
>> Zenith Aircraft Company uses built up aluminum spars that are
>> (IMHO) probably cheaper that aircraft quality Sitka Spruce, stronger
>> and
>> weigh less too.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: built up spars |
Ivan,
Nice work. I'll put this one on my web site rather than the other two. Is
that OK?
Cheers
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ivan.todorovic
Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> ...Check out the wing spar construction page on http://www.cpc-world.com
Peter's box-spar sketches joined together in single picture and cleaned in
Photoshop:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273597#273597
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxsparsketch_137.jpeg
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: shipping aluminum sheet |
Gene,
Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheets, My Piet used less 4' x 4'
He is clearly building an all aluminum Pietenpol, or.....
B-T-W
3003 is very soft.
6061 is twice as stiff
and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
Regards
Hans
All wood Pietenpol NX15KV, with some steel and aluminum parts all wrapped
in Polyfiber
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has been
used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a Piet.
Can buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry aircraft grad
e aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft spruce,
Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
ircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
f aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
iece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
on't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
nroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
nyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
his way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
ir Camper NX41CC
an Antonio, TX
ailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
ebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
=
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
itle=http://www.buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com"
>www.buildersbooks.com
ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cti
tle=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pietenpol-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: built up spars |
vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> Ivan,
>
> Nice work. I'll put this one on my web site rather than the other two. Is
> that OK?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> --
Of course it is OK! I want to build this spar, and I'm trying to do a CAD version
of it, but don't tell anyone yet! :) If I manage to finish it, I'll post it
here. and you can also ad that to your site.
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273608#273608
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: shipping aluminum sheet |
I ordered a sheet of .025" x 4' x 8' and it unrolled and laid perfectly flat. It
was only rolled for the time it took to get to me (about three days).
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Nov 18, 2009, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: built up spars |
Saw them; thanks Peter.
Jim B.
Do not archive
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Nov 18, 2009, Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Jim,
All done....
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
Peter it would be really nice if you added that drawing to your web site. Your
web site is a very good inspiration to Piet builders as is but that would be even
better.
Thanks,
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Nov 17, 2009, Peter W Johnson <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
Hi Guys,
I used Jim's plans for my spar.
When building, I make a quick drawing from the plans showing what I need to do
for that particular part and take that to the workshop, leaving the plans safe
in the office. I still have the notebook drawing I made to build the spars.
If I posted that on my web site, maybe people would have a better idea of what
is required. There are lots of photo's on page 4 of the builders log on the web
site. That way nobody needs to get upset.
What do you reckon??
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Wednesday, 18 November 2009 3:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
It is a civil liability issue. The USA has about 75% of the world's lawyers and
generates about 95% of the world's lawsuits. US litigants have some standing
in UK courts, unlike in many countries which turn such suits away. Jim likely
wishes to continue speaking English in England and keeping his money and sanity...
good for him.
Maybe an interested builder can get dimensions on those caps and the web of the
built-up spar from a second source ("wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more").
Tim in central TX
no relation to Jim Wills
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
>Sent: Nov 17, 2009 9:24 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
>
>
>Well, I don't see how procuring the UK plans is against the law in any
>way; Jim Wills just doesn't want to sell them to anyone here. If you
>were to acquire a set it would be against his wishes, but I highly
>doubt you would be breaking any laws.
>
>As far as holding Zenith spars up as an example of a strong, high
>quality design....you may want to reconsider that:
>
> http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-11-12_safety_alert.asp
>
>They've developed such a tendency to shed their wings/break up in
>flight that the FAA has seemingly done all they can to require or
>strongly recommend no further flight until an extensive package of
>mods are completed on existing aircraft, and will not issue
>airworthiness certificates for any new aircraft that do not have the
>mods. Too bad for the Zenith guys...
>
>Ryan
>
>Sent from my mobile device
>
>On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:32 AM, baileys <baileys@ktis.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm joining in on this one a bit. Years ago I too tried to get plans
>> for the built up spar the Brits have. As far as I as able to find out
>> there is simply no legal way of doing it and that is the end of that.
>> <snip>
>
>> Zenith Aircraft Company uses built up aluminum spars that are
>> (IMHO) probably cheaper that aircraft quality Sitka Spruce, stronger
>> and
>> weigh less too.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: shipping aluminum sheet |
3003 comes in 4x12 too. It can be had in differing hardnesses, I think
1/2 hard is the norm for cowlings, etc (can't say the T_ number). I am
going to a local place within the week to buy a piece for my cowlings.
Talking about something that unwinds with a fury, though, if anyone is
using hard wire (or music wire) for tail bracing or wing drag wires, I
made the mistake of holding a roll and cutting off the brass-wire ties.
It had the ends bent back 180 degrees, so as it started uncoiling, it
dug those sharp ends into my hands. I only then realized that I had no
option but to put my foot on it, cover my face, and jump off . . . it
slapped me about ten times before I got out of reach. Damn near kilt
me!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo@aol.com<mailto:hvandervoo@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Gene,
Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheets, My Piet used less 4' x 4'
He is clearly building an all aluminum Pietenpol, or.....
B-T-W
3003 is very soft.
6061 is twice as stiff
and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
Regards
Hans
All wood Pietenpol NX15KV, with some steel and aluminum parts all
wrapped in Polyfiber
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has
been used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a
Piet. Can buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo@aol.com<mailto:hvandervoo@aol.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry
aircraft grade aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft
spruce, Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga
<taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>>
To: Pietenpol List
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
<taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>>
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net<http://www.flysquirrel.net/>
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution>
t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com
=
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>">www.ae
roelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>">www.
buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>">www.
homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>">http://www.matronics.com/ctitle=http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/ctitle=http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P
ietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
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I have see several videos of passengers getting into the front "pit. Has
anyone done one that shows how to get into the pilot's station? I got to
try one out this summer and the owner provided a step stool to climb in.
This seems like a rather poor item to have to take along with you.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
Message 23
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| Subject: | shipping aluminum sheet |
Don't you wish you had that on video?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
3003 comes in 4x12 too. It can be had in differing hardnesses, I think 1/2
hard is the norm for cowlings, etc (can't say the T_ number). I am going to
a local place within the week to buy a piece for my cowlings.
Talking about something that unwinds with a fury, though, if anyone is using
hard wire (or music wire) for tail bracing or wing drag wires, I made the
mistake of holding a roll and cutting off the brass-wire ties. It had the
ends bent back 180 degrees, so as it started uncoiling, it dug those sharp
ends into my hands. I only then realized that I had no option but to put my
foot on it, cover my face, and jump off . . . it slapped me about ten times
before I got out of reach. Damn near kilt me!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Gene,
Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheets, My Piet used less 4' x 4'
He is clearly building an all aluminum Pietenpol, or.....
B-T-W
3003 is very soft.
6061 is twice as stiff
and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
Regards
Hans
All wood Pietenpol NX15KV, with some steel and aluminum parts all wrapped in
Polyfiber
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has been
used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a Piet. Can
buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry aircraft grade
aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft spruce,
Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: General Pietenpol questions |
Thanks for all the very interesting input on this subject. What really says it
all is that the Piet flys like a Cub. I will definitely get some Cub time if and
when I go this route.
PS, to Gene in "rainy Tennessee", we are in Salmon Arm at the north end of the
Okanagan Valley, right on Shuswap Lake.
Nigel
--------
Nigel R. Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273640#273640
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: shipping aluminum sheet |
Let's not confuse stiffness with strength. All three materials have
essentially the same stiffness, but the major practical difference
between them are the yield and ultimate strengths. Until they yield,
they will deform about the same amount for a given load. After they
yield, of course, they might deform much, much more. But when designed
properly for aircraft, they should not yield at the maximum flight or
landing load. Yield, of course, is a "permanent detrimental
deformation," according the practical definition that the FAA uses,
while ultimate is defined as failure.
3003 aluminum is a very soft material. It's not used for structure, and
has limited use for formed non-structural parts. I could not find
information about this material.
6061, especially in the T6 temper, is a common material for aircraft and
non-aerospace applications such as flashlight housings. Its yield
strength is 35,000 psi and its ultimate tensile strength is 42,000 psi
when used for aircraft. It's a rugged, durable, practical material
that's relatively inexpensive. Because of these properties and its
reluctance to grow cracks, it's a common aluminum for some spacecraft
structures.
2024-T3 is a common aircraft material. The strength varies slightly
depending on its shape, for example, tube, extrusion, sheet or bar. For
sheet, its yield strength in tension is 42,000 psi and its ultimate
strength is 63,000 psi. It's a strong aluminum alloy, readily available
but more expensive than 6061-T6. It is more susceptible to cracking and
crack growth than 6061-T6, but that's a matter of degree, so don't let
that frighten you away from it.
The stiffness and strength are two entirely different properties. Since
I've just supplied the strength numbers, let's briefly discuss
stiffness. All these materials have about the same Young's modulus of
elasticity, which is the term for the property of stiffness. As I
mentioned, I found no data for 3003, but 6061-T6 has a stiffness of 9.9
million psi and 2024-T3 sheet has a stiffness of 10.5 million psi, or
about 6% stiffer than the 6061.
One of the interesting factoids of stress analysis is that light
aluminum structures are often critical in buckling. And buckling turns
out to be primarily sensitive to the stiffness, rather than strength, at
least until it is highly loaded. Of course a structual engineer has to
check strength as well as buckling, because you can't just expect that
one or the other will dominate.
David Paule
B-T-W
3003 is very soft.
6061 is twice as stiff
and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
Regards
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: built up spars |
Done,
Thanks Ivan
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ivan.todorovic
Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 8:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> Ivan,
>
> Nice work. I'll put this one on my web site rather than the other two. Is
> that OK?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> --
Of course it is OK! I want to build this spar, and I'm trying to do a CAD
version of it, but don't tell anyone yet! :) If I manage to finish it, I'll
post it here. and you can also ad that to your site.
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273608#273608
Message 27
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| Subject: | shipping aluminum sheet |
Hans wrote-
>Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheets
Yup.
>He is clearly building an all aluminum Pietenpol
Nope. Just thinking about making quite a number
of aluminum parts for something. Jim Markle knows ;o)
>3003 is very soft. 6061 is twice as stiff
>and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
What I need is 6061 T-6. Thanks for all the help;
I have a quote request in to Trident in Austin
since we use materials from them at my workplace and
they deliver to us frequently.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 28
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Thanks, everyone, for the info and leads on the
built-up spar. Of the articles posted on the
Westcoastpiet site, note carefully the information
given in the addendum to the article that ran years
ago in the old EAA Design Manuals (which I am very
fortunate to have at least some of). Referring to
I-shape compared to box beams, there are distinct
advantages. The UK built-up spar with its C-shape
as a compromise between the I-beam and the full box,
has some of the advantages of both. Note, however,
that the I-shape is inherently more resistant to
having the web buckle, which is why the UK spar has
vertical stiffeners between the capstrips at each
rib position.
To take the I-shape to what I would call "elegant
overkill", consider the spars on Mike Cuy's wing.
Refer to the sketches and photos of his wings and
spars that Mike provided on the Westcoastpiet site.
In essence, since Mike's spars use a solid 1/2"
spruce web, he has the best of all worlds in that
he has essentially a 1" square top and bottom flange
to take the tension and compression loads and a solid
1/2" web of spruce for shear. With that thickness
(as opposed to, say, using 1/8" or even 1/2" ply for
the web), his spar does not require stiffeners to
provide buckling resistance for the web. Note the
photos of Mike's wing before covering... there are
no vertical stiffeners at each rib. It is hell for
stout and, as I say, "elegant overkill". It could
doubtless be engineered to a slimmer profile but it
is clean and effective. However, there is still the
cost of that spruce in straight, clear lengths.
For us cheapskates still trying to use thinner and
less expensive stock and either scarfing or laminating
things so we don't have to use long expensive pieces of
clear wood, and trying to use plywood for the web rather
than spruce planks, the approach becomes one of
engineering a built-up section with equivalent strength.
This is where I am right now, and Jim Markle knows why ;o)
Meanwhile, 41CC soldiers on... putting grins on faces
all over south Texas as the C75 begins to break in and
pull stronger with every passing flight.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 29
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Oscar,
Don't forget also that the UK Piets (and mine) have a full "D" section from
the top of the front spar over the leading edge to the bottom of the front
spar. Makes for a really strong spar..
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 2:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
Thanks, everyone, for the info and leads on the
built-up spar. Of the articles posted on the
Westcoastpiet site, note carefully the information
given in the addendum to the article that ran years
ago in the old EAA Design Manuals (which I am very
fortunate to have at least some of). Referring to
I-shape compared to box beams, there are distinct
advantages. The UK built-up spar with its C-shape
as a compromise between the I-beam and the full box,
has some of the advantages of both. Note, however,
that the I-shape is inherently more resistant to
having the web buckle, which is why the UK spar has
vertical stiffeners between the capstrips at each
rib position.
To take the I-shape to what I would call "elegant
overkill", consider the spars on Mike Cuy's wing.
Refer to the sketches and photos of his wings and
spars that Mike provided on the Westcoastpiet site.
In essence, since Mike's spars use a solid 1/2"
spruce web, he has the best of all worlds in that
he has essentially a 1" square top and bottom flange
to take the tension and compression loads and a solid
1/2" web of spruce for shear. With that thickness
(as opposed to, say, using 1/8" or even 1/2" ply for
the web), his spar does not require stiffeners to
provide buckling resistance for the web. Note the
photos of Mike's wing before covering... there are
no vertical stiffeners at each rib. It is hell for
stout and, as I say, "elegant overkill". It could
doubtless be engineered to a slimmer profile but it
is clean and effective. However, there is still the
cost of that spruce in straight, clear lengths.
For us cheapskates still trying to use thinner and
less expensive stock and either scarfing or laminating
things so we don't have to use long expensive pieces of
clear wood, and trying to use plywood for the web rather
than spruce planks, the approach becomes one of
engineering a built-up section with equivalent strength.
This is where I am right now, and Jim Markle knows why ;o)
Meanwhile, 41CC soldiers on... putting grins on faces
all over south Texas as the C75 begins to break in and
pull stronger with every passing flight.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: General Pietenpol questions |
You got it good up there. :-)
Down here in Vancouver it's heavy rain and so windy
the Ferries have been cancelled.
Clif
>
> PS, to Gene in "rainy Tennessee", we are in Salmon Arm at the north end of
> the Okanagan Valley, right on Shuswap Lake.
>
> Nigel
>
> --------
> Nigel R. Jones
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Upper Flying Strut Fitting, Possibe Plans Error |
Seeing as I started this thread I should show what I ended up doing.
On both sides of the spar under the fitting I added 1/8-inch Birch plywood
plates 12-inches long tapered on both ends to avoid sudden change in spare
cross section. I did not weld the two straps together.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
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