Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:01 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 (Dallas)
2. 04:39 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 (Ryan Mueller)
3. 05:30 AM - Of possible interest: Air & Space article on automotive vs. aircraft engines (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
4. 06:06 AM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (vman1922)
5. 06:22 AM - Re: Fuselage bottom gussets (Rick Holland)
6. 06:53 AM - stick input forces at rest and at full load (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 (Perry Rhoads)
8. 02:33 PM - Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (Billy McCaskill)
9. 02:50 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (TOM STINEMETZE)
10. 02:50 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (Ed G.)
11. 03:52 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (Dick N.)
12. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 (Lagowski Morrow)
13. 04:38 PM - for sale or trade (bryan green)
14. 06:12 PM - Re: for sale or trade (Rob Stapleton)
15. 06:37 PM - Re: Fuselage bottom gussets (jim)
16. 07:03 PM - Re: for sale or trade (hwaller)
17. 07:11 PM - Re: Fuselage bottom gussets (Rick Holland)
18. 07:36 PM - Re: Fuselage bottom gussets (jim)
19. 08:31 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (ken anderson)
20. 11:38 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (Mike Whaley)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 |
Hi folks,
Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet.
Any leads greatly appreciated!
-
Thanks,
Dallas
--- On Wed, 12/2/09, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics
.com> wrote:
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09
*
========================
---Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
========================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View
=html&Chapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View
=txt&Chapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol
======================
---EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
- - - - -----------------------------------------------------
--------
- - - - - - - - - - - - ---Pietenpol-List Dig
est Archive
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
---
- - - - - - - - - ---Total Messages Posted Tue 12/0
1/09: 12
- - - - -----------------------------------------------------
--------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
- ---1. 03:40 AM - Re: Re: built up spars- (Tim Willis)
- ---2. 04:03 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B- (H RULE)
- ---3. 04:09 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B- (H RULE)
- ---4. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full l
oad- (gcardinal)
- ---5. 07:32 AM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
- (vman1922)
- ---6. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full l
oad- (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
- ---7. 12:04 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B- (Rick Holland)
- ---8. 12:47 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B- (Bill Church)
- ---9. 07:15 PM - Slow List.....- (gcardinal)
- - 10. 08:18 PM - Fuselage bottom gussets- (jim)
- - 11. 09:13 PM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load- (
coxwelljon)
- - 12. 09:33 PM - Re: Slow List.....- (Gary Boothe)
________________________________- Message 1- __________________________
___________
Time: 03:40:10 AM PST US
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
Ivan,
That looks like a great piece of work.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha@sezampro.rs>
>Sent: Nov 30, 2009 3:48 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
>
>
>Attached are three drawings of the built box-spar for Piet Air Camper. Man
y Thanks
to Peter W. Johnson for all the info from the original (UK designed) plans.
>
>Grega builders may expect their version in the future, together with adequ
ate
Riblett rib-jig plans (31" GN-1 spar distance, different leading edge const
ruction
etc.). Not to bother Pietenpol builders with things not related to them,
I've formed Grega GN-1 group on Yahoo,
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GregaGN1/
>and all things Grega-specific and non-Pietenpol related I will post there.
Feel
free to join.
>
>Regards,
>Ivan Todorovic
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275554#275554
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar_146.pdf
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar3_612.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar2_127.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar1_907.jpg
>
>
________________________________- Message 2- __________________________
___________
Time: 04:03:43 AM PST US
From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
The lithium crystals are cracketed and hung like a Christmas tree.
do not archive
________________________________
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:59:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Captain to engine room, Scotty warp speed, AH! CAPTAIN
I can't do that the lithium crystals are melting down!
There's relays SMOKING! Captain to Scotty WARP speed
NOW!
This was so cool, I didn't think you would however find
relays in a Star Ship but who knows.
Russell
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.
dortch@us.army.mil>
wrote:
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at
an
instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed t
hat
Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of cours
e
you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve "trek" D
>
________________________________- Message 3- __________________________
___________
Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US
From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days
of
Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not li
ke
they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves in
the
middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in them.
________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at
an
instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed t
hat
Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of cours
e
you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
Blue Skies,
Steve "trek" D
________________________________- Message 4- __________________________
___________
Time: 05:01:02 AM PST US
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full loa
d
I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on
NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron
control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also.
Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly.
Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove
slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
> <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
>
> [quote="zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ"]The leverage is determined by the dista
nce
> from the- middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by the length f
rom
> the- control cable connection to the pivot. That should get you a rough
> idea of- the loads involved.
> Regards Mike T.
>
>>- - ---
>
>
> I think what- John is asking and the question I would ask is "how much
> stick force does it take to fly a Piet and in my case a GN-1 in the
> various phases of flight?- Is it a 2 finger chore or do I need some gym
> work before my first flight?
>
> Another related question - Does anyone know the proper tension for the
> control cables to the elevator and to the ailerons.- I have adjusted th
e
> routing or my elevator cables so they do not rest on the stabilizer with
> the elevator in the full down position and they are more equal in tension
> throughout the travel range but I don't know how much tension to adjust
> into them.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275590#275590
>
>
>
________________________________- Message 5- __________________________
___________
Time: 07:32:11 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
From: "vman1922" <kkamp72@comcast.net>
One time read an article by a test pilot.- He mentioned the term 1,2, and
3 or
was it five.- Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two and rudder
force
being three (maybe five) times as great.- this relationship was considere
d an
ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am sure.- He had
a device
he put on the stick to measure the force.- It was an EAA article.- Thin
k
it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft.
So this probably does not answer the question but might be good for thought
/discussion.
John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville).- May I visit you and your pro
ject sometime???
I am new to list and have started working on ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603
________________________________- Message 6- __________________________
___________
Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full loa
d
Quarryville, Groff & Groff a great place for poplar that's where I got- a
ll
of mine, even the 16 foot spar material. That's great to hear someone- so
close. I typically work on it Saturday and Sundays but lets set up a time a
nd
date. You and every other piet builder (and sometime RV builder, okay- an
y
airplane builder) is always welcome in my shop.
my cell is 215-208-8309
call me, I get few visitors but enjoy visiting other builders. I am home-
today but work in Philadelphia area so I don't usually get home till around
7:00- PM or later but I am certain we can set something up. Just let me k
now-
when.
I got a fuse framed and supported, wings built and tail feathers so I can
-
and am more than willing to answer any questions you may have along the way
,
all- you need do is ask. You may want to send your contact info so I can
add it into- my address book.
Thanks
John
In a message dated 12/1/2009 10:33:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,-
kkamp72@comcast.net writes:
-->- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "vman1922"- <kkamp72@comcast.net
>
One time read an article by a test- pilot.- He mentioned the term 1,2,
and
3 or was it five.- Aileron- force being 1, elevator force being two and
rudder force being three (maybe- five) times as great.- this relationsh
ip was
considered an ideal- harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am
sure.- He had a- device he put on the stick to measure the force.- It
was an EAA
article.- Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft.
So- this probably does not answer the question but might be good for-
thought/discussion.
John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville).---May I visit you and you
r
project sometime???
I am new to list and have- started working on ribs.
Read this topic online- here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603
________________________________- Message 7- __________________________
___________
Time: 12:04:33 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals.
rick
"Logic is a wreath- of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com> wrote:
> Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the da
ys
> of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least n
ot
> like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them sel
ves
> in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in
> them.
>
>- ------------------------------
> *From:* "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
>
> I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look
at
> an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was ama
zed
> that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But o
f
> course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve "trek" D
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________- Message 8- __________________________
___________
Time: 12:47:03 PM PST US
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Wooop-wooop-wooop!
(geek alarm going off)
Just kidding, Rick.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals.
rick
"Logic is a wreath- of pretty flowers, that smell bad"-
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com> wrote:
--- Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back
in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell
phones,at least not like they are today.They were huge things that could
stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they certainly
didn't have calculators in them.
________________________________
--- From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
--- To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
--- Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
--- Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
--- I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed
Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would
last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far
into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out how long
your fuel will last.
--- Blue Skies,
--- Steve "trek" D
________________________________- Message 9- __________________________
___________
Time: 07:15:31 PM PST US
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........
Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft
photos.
Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took
part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.
Very nice, Rob!
Greg C.
________________________________- Message 10- _________________________
___________
Time: 08:18:47 PM PST US
From: "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
Hi All,
Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I
got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply,
are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4"
?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________- Message 11- _________________________
___________
Time: 09:13:59 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
gcardinal(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on
> NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron
> control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also.
> Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly.
>
> Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove
> slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction.
>
> Greg C.
>
> ---
Thanks Greg,
That is helpful.- I have made some aluminum blocks with 1 1/4" sheaves to
replace
the hardwood guide blocks that were installed on my project.- The elevato
r
controls seemed heavy when I rigged the cables.- The cable changes direct
ion about
15 deg. now but runs nice and smooth with little friction.- I did not wan
t
to put too much stress on the elevator control horns but have enough tensio
n
to avoid flutter.- Maybe I am being too concerned.
--------
Jon Coxwell-
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275682#275682
________________________________- Message 12- _________________________
___________
Time: 09:33:36 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
Nicely done, Rob!! (Thanks, Greg.) ..seems like there should be a Rob Bach
Calender..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive
- _____-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........
Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft photos
.
Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took part
in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.
Very nice, Rob!
Greg C.
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 |
Vi Kapler 1033 Forest Hills Dr SW Rochester, MN 55902-2365 (507) 288-3322
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:59 AM, Dallas <paradox4u2@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet.
> Any leads greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Dallas
>
Message 3
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|
Subject: | Of possible interest: Air & Space article on automotive |
vs. aircraft engines
Article title: POWER STRUGGLE: Why car engines can't fly
Article source: Air & Space Smithsonian magazine, Jan. 1997
Author: Don Sherman
Message 4
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|
Subject: | Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load |
John,
I will call tonight or sometime soon. Hopefully a Saturday will work for you.
I live 1/4 mile from Groff&Groff - need any more wood??
Ken Kamp
cell 717-368-0186
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275720#275720
Message 5
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|
Subject: | Re: Fuselage bottom gussets |
No
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I got
> several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are the
> gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 6
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|
Subject: | stick input forces at rest and at full load |
I was amazed at how nice the control forces are in flight.
While repairing/rebuilding 41CC and having never flown it
or any other Piet before, the controls seemed draggy and
noisy when I exercised them on the ground and tuned up the
cable tensions. In flight, that all seems to disappear and
the controls are very nice. Elevators are quite sensitive
(in my opinion); and especially on the ground they are a
night-and-day change from, say, Cessnas; ailerons not so
much but still very smooth.
Rudder is nice too, but I have a rudder bar and it will
never be as sensitive to control as individual pedals will
be simply because you're working the control with large
leg muscles rather than smaller, finer foot and ankle
muscles.
I like the controls on the Piet very much.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 7
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|
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 |
Vitalis Kapler
Rochester,MN.
507-288-3322
----- Original Message -----
From: Dallas
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09
Hi folks,
Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet.
Any leads greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Dallas
--- On Wed, 12/2/09, Pietenpol-List Digest Server
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote:
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09
To: "Pietenpol-List Digest List"
<pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:58 AM
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in
either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the
Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain
ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
Chapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
hapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Tue 12/01/09: 12
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Re: Re: built up spars (Tim Willis)
2. 04:03 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (H RULE)
3. 04:09 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (H RULE)
4. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load (gcardinal)
5. 07:32 AM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full
load (vman1922)
6. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
7. 12:04 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (Rick Holland)
8. 12:47 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (Bill Church)
9. 07:15 PM - Slow List..... (gcardinal)
10. 08:18 PM - Fuselage bottom gussets (jim)
11. 09:13 PM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full
load (coxwelljon)
12. 09:33 PM - Re: Slow List..... (Gary Boothe)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 03:40:10 AM PST US
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
Ivan,
That looks like a great piece of work.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha@sezampro.rs>
>Sent: Nov 30, 2009 3:48 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
>
>
>Attached are three drawings of the built box-spar for Piet
Air Camper. Many Thanks
to Peter W. Johnson for all the info from the original (UK
designed) plans.
>
>Grega builders may expect their version in the future,
together with adequate
Riblett rib-jig plans (31" GN-1 spar distance, different
leading edge construction
etc.). Not to bother Pietenpol builders with things not
related to them,
I've formed Grega GN-1 group on Yahoo,
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GregaGN1/
>and all things Grega-specific and non-Pietenpol related I
will post there. Feel
free to join.
>
>Regards,
>Ivan Todorovic
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275554#275554
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar_146.pdf
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar3_612.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar2_127.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar1_907.jpg
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:03:43 AM PST US
From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
The lithium crystals are cracketed and hung like a Christmas
tree.
do not archive
________________________________
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:59:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Captain to engine room, Scotty warp speed, AH! CAPTAIN
I can't do that the lithium crystals are melting down!
There's relays SMOKING! Captain to Scotty WARP speed
NOW!
This was so cool, I didn't think you would however find
relays in a Star Ship but who knows.
Russell
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG
NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
wrote:
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed
Spock look at an
instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I
was amazed that
Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future.
But of course
you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve "trek" D
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US
From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then
back in the days of
Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at
least not like
they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by
them selves in the
middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators
in them.
________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed
Spock look at an
instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I
was amazed that
Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future.
But of course
you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
Blue Skies,
Steve "trek" D
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 05:01:02 AM PST US
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat
and at full load
I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say
that pitch on
NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in
cruise. Aileron
control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also.
Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly.
Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary
to remove
slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load
> <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
>
> [quote="zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ"]The leverage is determined
by the distance
> from the middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by
the length from
> the control cable connection to the pivot. That should get
you a rough
> idea of the loads involved.
> Regards Mike T.
>
>> ---
>
>
> I think what John is asking and the question I would ask is
"how much
> stick force does it take to fly a Piet and in my case a GN-1
in the
> various phases of flight? Is it a 2 finger chore or do I
need some gym
> work before my first flight?
>
> Another related question - Does anyone know the proper
tension for the
> control cables to the elevator and to the ailerons. I have
adjusted the
> routing or my elevator cables so they do not rest on the
stabilizer with
> the elevator in the full down position and they are more
equal in tension
> throughout the travel range but I don't know how much
tension to adjust
> into them.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275590#275590
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 07:32:11 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load
From: "vman1922" <kkamp72@comcast.net>
One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the
term 1,2, and 3 or
was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two
and rudder force
being three (maybe five) times as great. this relationship
was considered an
ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am
sure. He had a device
he put on the stick to measure the force. It was an EAA
article. Think
it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft.
So this probably does not answer the question but might be
good for thought/discussion.
John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you
and your project sometime???
I am new to list and have started working on ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat
and at full load
Quarryville, Groff & Groff a great place for poplar that's
where I got all
of mine, even the 16 foot spar material. That's great to hear
someone so
close. I typically work on it Saturday and Sundays but lets
set up a time and
date. You and every other piet builder (and sometime RV
builder, okay any
airplane builder) is always welcome in my shop.
my cell is 215-208-8309
call me, I get few visitors but enjoy visiting other builders.
I am home
today but work in Philadelphia area so I don't usually get
home till around
7:00 PM or later but I am certain we can set something up.
Just let me know
when.
I got a fuse framed and supported, wings built and tail
feathers so I can
and am more than willing to answer any questions you may have
along the way,
all you need do is ask. You may want to send your contact
info so I can
add it into my address book.
Thanks
John
In a message dated 12/1/2009 10:33:38 A.M. Eastern Standard
Time,
kkamp72@comcast.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "vman1922"
<kkamp72@comcast.net>
One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the
term 1,2, and
3 or was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force
being two and
rudder force being three (maybe five) times as great. this
relationship was
considered an ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat
subjective I am
sure. He had a device he put on the stick to measure the
force. It was an EAA
article. Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft.
So this probably does not answer the question but might be
good for
thought/discussion.
John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you
and your
project sometime???
I am new to list and have started working on ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 12:04:33 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals.
rick
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE
<harvey.rule@rogers.com> wrote:
> Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then
back in the days
> of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell
phones,at least not
> like they are today.They were huge things that could stand
up by them selves
> in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have
calculators in
> them.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
>
> I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and
noticed Spock look at
> an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would
last. I was amazed
> that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the
future. But of
> course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel
will last.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve "trek" D
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 12:47:03 PM PST US
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Wooop-wooop-wooop!
(geek alarm going off)
Just kidding, Rick.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals.
rick
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE
<harvey.rule@rogers.com> wrote:
Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then
back
in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have
cell
phones,at least not like they are today.They were huge things
that could
stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they
certainly
didn't have calculators in them.
________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and
noticed
Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium
crystals would
last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs
that far
into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out
how long
your fuel will last.
Blue Skies,
Steve "trek" D
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 07:15:31 PM PST US
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
While we are all sitting around thinking of something to
post........
Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing
aircraft
photos.
Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder
and took
part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.
Very nice, Rob!
Greg C.
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 08:18:47 PM PST US
From: "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
Hi All,
Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage
dimensions. I
got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is
1/4" ply,
are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage
also 1/4"
?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 09:13:59 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
gcardinal(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say
that pitch on
> NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in
cruise. Aileron
> control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light
also.
> Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons
significantly.
>
> Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than
necessary to remove
> slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction.
>
> Greg C.
>
> ---
Thanks Greg,
That is helpful. I have made some aluminum blocks with 1 1/4"
sheaves to replace
the hardwood guide blocks that were installed on my project.
The elevator
controls seemed heavy when I rigged the cables. The cable
changes direction about
15 deg. now but runs nice and smooth with little friction. I
did not want
to put too much stress on the elevator control horns but have
enough tension
to avoid flutter. Maybe I am being too concerned.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275682#275682
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 09:33:36 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
Nicely done, Rob!! (Thanks, Greg.) ..seems like there should
be a Rob Bach
Calender..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of gcardinal
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
While we are all sitting around thinking of something to
post........
Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing
aircraft photos.
Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder
and took part
in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.nbsp; (And Get Some
AWESOME FREE sp;--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpbsp;
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=====
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? |
I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor Freight MultiFunction
Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your opinion is this
a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying one? I have purchased
other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor Freight in the past, and
have invariably been disappointed in them as they did not last very long even
though they were used EXACTLY as intended and not abused in any way. I would
like to have a multifunction tool like this, but if the quality is equal to
those HF tools I have purchased before then I will pass on buying this. Thanks
for your opinions.
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
tail feathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
Message 9
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|
Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? |
Billy:
I purchased one of the Harbor Freight multi-tool knock offs about two
months ago and have found it to work satisfactorily. I realize that is
not a very long trial period. On the plus side it is a small fraction of
the cost of the name brands. On the down side it does not have available
all the tools that some of the others do.
My philosophy on Harbor Freight has always been: If you need a cheap tool
that will not be used all that much but would be useful right now - buy HF
or similar. If you want a tool that will last long enough to pass down to
your kids - suck it up and buy the good stuff.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
the Harbor Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for
$34.99), in your opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you
would recommend buying one?
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? |
Hi Billy I purchased one of those multi function cutters from harbor Frei
ght about a month ago to do a cutting job on my Piet to add some brake cabl
e pulleys underneath the belly stringers that were already in place. I coul
dn't figure out any other way to do a neat cut and didn't want to spend big
bucks I don't know how long it will last but I figure if I only use it to
do those jobs that my other tools wont it's worth the money. It seems to b
e very well built and it does things other tools just wont do. I'd say for
the money it's a great buy. Ed Grentzer
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinion
s?
> From: billmz@cox.net
> Date: Wed=2C 2 Dec 2009 14:32:18 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor Frei
ght MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99)=2C in your opin
ion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying on
e? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor Freigh
t in the past=2C and have invariably been disappointed in them as they did
not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and not a
bused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this=2C bu
t if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I
will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana=2C IL/Baker=2C LA
> tail feathers almost done
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/videos-tours.aspx?h=7sec&slide
id=1&media=aero-shake-7second&listid=1&stop=1&ocid=PID24727::T:WL
MTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_7secdemo:122009
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|
Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? |
I used mine today. It works well for the light duty occasional use.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
>
> I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor
> Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your
> opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend
> buying one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from
> Harbor Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them
> as they did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as
> intended and not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction
> tool like this, but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have
> purchased before then I will pass on buying this. Thanks for your
> opinions.
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
> tail feathers almost done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 |
I used hinges from the RANS kit planes. Stainless steel and fitted to
the elevators and rudder.--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: Dallas
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09
Hi folks,
Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet.
Any leads greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Dallas
--- On Wed, 12/2/09, Pietenpol-List Digest Server
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote:
From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09
To: "Pietenpol-List Digest List"
<pietenpol-list-digest@matronics.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:58 AM
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in
either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the
Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain
ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
Chapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
hapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Tue 12/01/09: 12
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Re: Re: built up spars (Tim Willis)
2. 04:03 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (H RULE)
3. 04:09 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (H RULE)
4. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load (gcardinal)
5. 07:32 AM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full
load (vman1922)
6. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
7. 12:04 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (Rick Holland)
8. 12:47 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (Bill Church)
9. 07:15 PM - Slow List..... (gcardinal)
10. 08:18 PM - Fuselage bottom gussets (jim)
11. 09:13 PM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full
load (coxwelljon)
12. 09:33 PM - Re: Slow List..... (Gary Boothe)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 03:40:10 AM PST US
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
Ivan,
That looks like a great piece of work.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha@sezampro.rs>
>Sent: Nov 30, 2009 3:48 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
>
>
>Attached are three drawings of the built box-spar for Piet
Air Camper. Many Thanks
to Peter W. Johnson for all the info from the original (UK
designed) plans.
>
>Grega builders may expect their version in the future,
together with adequate
Riblett rib-jig plans (31" GN-1 spar distance, different
leading edge construction
etc.). Not to bother Pietenpol builders with things not
related to them,
I've formed Grega GN-1 group on Yahoo,
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GregaGN1/
>and all things Grega-specific and non-Pietenpol related I
will post there. Feel
free to join.
>
>Regards,
>Ivan Todorovic
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275554#275554
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar_146.pdf
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar3_612.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar2_127.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar1_907.jpg
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 04:03:43 AM PST US
From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
The lithium crystals are cracketed and hung like a Christmas
tree.
do not archive
________________________________
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:59:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Captain to engine room, Scotty warp speed, AH! CAPTAIN
I can't do that the lithium crystals are melting down!
There's relays SMOKING! Captain to Scotty WARP speed
NOW!
This was so cool, I didn't think you would however find
relays in a Star Ship but who knows.
Russell
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG
NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
wrote:
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed
Spock look at an
instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I
was amazed that
Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future.
But of course
you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve "trek" D
>
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US
From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then
back in the days of
Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at
least not like
they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by
them selves in the
middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators
in them.
________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed
Spock look at an
instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I
was amazed that
Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future.
But of course
you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
Blue Skies,
Steve "trek" D
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 05:01:02 AM PST US
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat
and at full load
I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say
that pitch on
NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in
cruise. Aileron
control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also.
Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly.
Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary
to remove
slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load
> <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
>
> [quote="zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ"]The leverage is determined
by the distance
> from the middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by
the length from
> the control cable connection to the pivot. That should get
you a rough
> idea of the loads involved.
> Regards Mike T.
>
>> ---
>
>
> I think what John is asking and the question I would ask is
"how much
> stick force does it take to fly a Piet and in my case a GN-1
in the
> various phases of flight? Is it a 2 finger chore or do I
need some gym
> work before my first flight?
>
> Another related question - Does anyone know the proper
tension for the
> control cables to the elevator and to the ailerons. I have
adjusted the
> routing or my elevator cables so they do not rest on the
stabilizer with
> the elevator in the full down position and they are more
equal in tension
> throughout the travel range but I don't know how much
tension to adjust
> into them.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275590#275590
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 07:32:11 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load
From: "vman1922" <kkamp72@comcast.net>
One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the
term 1,2, and 3 or
was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two
and rudder force
being three (maybe five) times as great. this relationship
was considered an
ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am
sure. He had a device
he put on the stick to measure the force. It was an EAA
article. Think
it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft.
So this probably does not answer the question but might be
good for thought/discussion.
John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you
and your project sometime???
I am new to list and have started working on ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat
and at full load
Quarryville, Groff & Groff a great place for poplar that's
where I got all
of mine, even the 16 foot spar material. That's great to hear
someone so
close. I typically work on it Saturday and Sundays but lets
set up a time and
date. You and every other piet builder (and sometime RV
builder, okay any
airplane builder) is always welcome in my shop.
my cell is 215-208-8309
call me, I get few visitors but enjoy visiting other builders.
I am home
today but work in Philadelphia area so I don't usually get
home till around
7:00 PM or later but I am certain we can set something up.
Just let me know
when.
I got a fuse framed and supported, wings built and tail
feathers so I can
and am more than willing to answer any questions you may have
along the way,
all you need do is ask. You may want to send your contact
info so I can
add it into my address book.
Thanks
John
In a message dated 12/1/2009 10:33:38 A.M. Eastern Standard
Time,
kkamp72@comcast.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "vman1922"
<kkamp72@comcast.net>
One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the
term 1,2, and
3 or was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force
being two and
rudder force being three (maybe five) times as great. this
relationship was
considered an ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat
subjective I am
sure. He had a device he put on the stick to measure the
force. It was an EAA
article. Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft.
So this probably does not answer the question but might be
good for
thought/discussion.
John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you
and your
project sometime???
I am new to list and have started working on ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 12:04:33 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals.
rick
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE
<harvey.rule@rogers.com> wrote:
> Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then
back in the days
> of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell
phones,at least not
> like they are today.They were huge things that could stand
up by them selves
> in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have
calculators in
> them.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
>
> I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and
noticed Spock look at
> an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would
last. I was amazed
> that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the
future. But of
> course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel
will last.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve "trek" D
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 12:47:03 PM PST US
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Wooop-wooop-wooop!
(geek alarm going off)
Just kidding, Rick.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals.
rick
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE
<harvey.rule@rogers.com> wrote:
Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then
back
in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have
cell
phones,at least not like they are today.They were huge things
that could
stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they
certainly
didn't have calculators in them.
________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and
noticed
Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium
crystals would
last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs
that far
into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out
how long
your fuel will last.
Blue Skies,
Steve "trek" D
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 07:15:31 PM PST US
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal@comcast.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
While we are all sitting around thinking of something to
post........
Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing
aircraft
photos.
Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder
and took
part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.
Very nice, Rob!
Greg C.
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 08:18:47 PM PST US
From: "jim" <quinnj@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
Hi All,
Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage
dimensions. I
got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is
1/4" ply,
are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage
also 1/4"
?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 09:13:59 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at
full load
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon@frontiernet.net>
gcardinal(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say
that pitch on
> NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in
cruise. Aileron
> control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light
also.
> Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons
significantly.
>
> Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than
necessary to remove
> slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction.
>
> Greg C.
>
> ---
Thanks Greg,
That is helpful. I have made some aluminum blocks with 1 1/4"
sheaves to replace
the hardwood guide blocks that were installed on my project.
The elevator
controls seemed heavy when I rigged the cables. The cable
changes direction about
15 deg. now but runs nice and smooth with little friction. I
did not want
to put too much stress on the elevator control horns but have
enough tension
to avoid flutter. Maybe I am being too concerned.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275682#275682
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 09:33:36 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
Nicely done, Rob!! (Thanks, Greg.) ..seems like there should
be a Rob Bach
Calender..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of gcardinal
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List.....
While we are all sitting around thinking of something to
post........
Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing
aircraft photos.
Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder
and took part
in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.nbsp; (And Get Some
AWESOME FREE sp;--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpbsp;
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=====
Message 13
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|
Subject: | for sale or trade |
I have the following items for sale or trade.
Federal Mogul main bearings for corvair .010
Seal Power rod bearings for corvair .010
GN-1 engine mount for a C85
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
GN-1 Aircamper
N1736 rebuilding
Message 14
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|
Subject: | for sale or trade |
How can I contact you to discuss these Corvair items?
Rob
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan
green
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: for sale or trade
I have the following items for sale or trade.
Federal Mogul main bearings for corvair .010
Seal Power rod bearings for corvair .010
GN-1 engine mount for a C85
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
GN-1 Aircamper
N1736 rebuilding
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage bottom gussets |
Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
No
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Hi All,
Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage
dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor
is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the
fuselage also 1/4" ?
Thanks,
Jim
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: for sale or trade |
Hi,
Could you explain if/how the GN-1 engine mount
differs from the air camper mount.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275896#275896
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage bottom gussets |
That's correct Jim, all 1/8" gussets.
Rick
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, jim <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then?
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
>
> No
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I
>> got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are
>> the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage bottom gussets |
Thanks Rick!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
That's correct Jim, all 1/8" gussets.
Rick
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, jim <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
No
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim <quinnj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Hi All,
Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage
dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor
is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the
fuselage also 1/4" ?
Thanks,
Jim
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
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Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? |
I have one and works fine. I have been using it in a kitchen remodel.The
blades seem to be of a cheap quality and wear easily. Dremel brand blades
look like they might work but havn't tried yet. Look in some hot rod
magazines Harbor Freight always has adds with this tool as low as 2999 and
there is always a 20% off coupon.
Ken
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Billy McCaskill <billmz@cox.net> wrote:
>
> I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor
> Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your
> opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying
> one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor
> Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them as they
> did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and
> not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this,
> but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I
> will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
> tail feathers almost done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
>
>
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? |
The one issue with it is that it won't accept other manufacturer's
accessories... Dremel blades don't work in it for sure, so you have to go
back to HF for more blades. To be fair, I believe this applies to all brands
of multi-tools, it's not just HF at fault here. My father in law got one of
these a couple months ago for his handyman business, and the first time he
used it, it became about his favorite tool... ever. It's really saved his
bacon on projects quite a few times. He said the other day, "When this one
wears out, I'll be happy to buy the really nice, expensive model to replace
it, but this one just might go for a good while." He told me that the
higher-end brands have more "throw" to the vibration of the blade, but the
HF version still works just fine. I've used it a couple times, and believe
me, that sucker instantly became on of those "can't-live-without" kind of
tools. They can cut where there just isn't any other way to do it.
The only problem I've noticed is that when I was using it to sand something,
my hand naturally wanted to hold it up high, towards the business end, and
my hand position naturally covered up the cooling vents a bit. That being
said, it didn't get very warm or anything so I don't think it's an issue,
really. You can also use the B&D "mouse" velcro-backed sanding pads with the
triangular sanding accessory too... just cut the excess off with scissors,
or don't... it works either way.
The only recommendation I have against this tool is that it's very likely to
become a tool that you will use A LOT, so if other ones have more features
or more accessories or are more ergonomic to you, then that alone might be
well worth the extra cost. HF doesn't seem to have a ton of different
blades, but then I haven't looked at what's out there for any other brands
other than the one Dremel blade I saw that didn't fit. Still, if it croaks
tomorrow (after 2 months of use), I'm certain Dave would say he's gotten his
money's worth several times over. No reason to think it will, though, at
least it was still like new the other day when I used it!
I almost feel like that cheesy old commercial... "Please, if you don't get a
multi-tool at Harbor Freight, get a multi-tool SOMEWHERE". But it really has
proven to be that useful.
Thus far, the HF power tools I've used (mostly borrowed from my
father-in-law) have seemed to be fine in function and strength. They are
even probably the most cost-effective choice in the many cases when you just
need it once in a while and don't need some really esoteric capability from
it. Dave's HF multi tool, chop saw, and electric planer all continue to work
well after a year or two of occasional (or even quite regular) usage in a
variety of projects. His HF hammer drill died over the summer, but that did
get a lot of use and as I recall the story, it lasted longer than he
expected, given the duty it was being subjected to (they really needed a
jackhammer but the hammer drill was all that was available). My small
wet/dry vac still works great after several years. I probably would look
elsewhere for the 10% of tools that will see heavy, constant, strenuous use,
where high precision is critical, or where maximum features are important...
for instance, a cordless drill/driver, or a lathe, home neurosurgery kit,
etc. Then, obviously you should buy the best and most versatile one you can
afford. But I've found that when the tool fits into the "I won't use it too
much, I don't need a bunch of bells and whistles... but when I need it, I've
really gotta have one handy" category... and face it, MANY of our favorite
tools actually fit firmly within that definition... it can be awfully hard
to justify spending twice the price for a high-end tool when the HF version
will probably work just as well 95% of the time. Plus you'll have more money
left over, so you can go buy some OTHER tools to play with. Yippee! :)
He who dies with the most tools... is still dead.
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:32 PM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool
opinions?
>
> I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor
Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your
opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying
one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor
Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them as they
did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and
not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this,
but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I
will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
> tail feathers almost done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
>
>
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