---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/02/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:01 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 (Dallas) 2. 04:39 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 (Ryan Mueller) 3. 05:30 AM - Of possible interest: Air & Space article on automotive vs. aircraft engines (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 4. 06:06 AM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (vman1922) 5. 06:22 AM - Re: Fuselage bottom gussets (Rick Holland) 6. 06:53 AM - stick input forces at rest and at full load (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 (Perry Rhoads) 8. 02:33 PM - Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (Billy McCaskill) 9. 02:50 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (TOM STINEMETZE) 10. 02:50 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (Ed G.) 11. 03:52 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (Dick N.) 12. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 (Lagowski Morrow) 13. 04:38 PM - for sale or trade (bryan green) 14. 06:12 PM - Re: for sale or trade (Rob Stapleton) 15. 06:37 PM - Re: Fuselage bottom gussets (jim) 16. 07:03 PM - Re: for sale or trade (hwaller) 17. 07:11 PM - Re: Fuselage bottom gussets (Rick Holland) 18. 07:36 PM - Re: Fuselage bottom gussets (jim) 19. 08:31 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (ken anderson) 20. 11:38 PM - Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? (Mike Whaley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:18 AM PST US From: Dallas Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 Hi folks, Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet. Any leads greatly appreciated! - Thanks, Dallas --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 * ======================== ---Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =html&Chapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: - - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View =txt&Chapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol ====================== ---EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- - - - - - - - - - - - - ---Pietenpol-List Dig est Archive - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- - - - - - - - - - ---Total Messages Posted Tue 12/0 1/09: 12 - - - - ----------------------------------------------------- -------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- - ---1. 03:40 AM - Re: Re: built up spars- (Tim Willis) - ---2. 04:03 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B- (H RULE) - ---3. 04:09 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B- (H RULE) - ---4. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full l oad- (gcardinal) - ---5. 07:32 AM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load - (vman1922) - ---6. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full l oad- (AMsafetyC@aol.com) - ---7. 12:04 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B- (Rick Holland) - ---8. 12:47 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B- (Bill Church) - ---9. 07:15 PM - Slow List.....- (gcardinal) - - 10. 08:18 PM - Fuselage bottom gussets- (jim) - - 11. 09:13 PM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load- ( coxwelljon) - - 12. 09:33 PM - Re: Slow List.....- (Gary Boothe) ________________________________- Message 1- __________________________ ___________ Time: 03:40:10 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars Ivan, That looks like a great piece of work. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: "ivan.todorovic" >Sent: Nov 30, 2009 3:48 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars > > >Attached are three drawings of the built box-spar for Piet Air Camper. Man y Thanks to Peter W. Johnson for all the info from the original (UK designed) plans. > >Grega builders may expect their version in the future, together with adequ ate Riblett rib-jig plans (31" GN-1 spar distance, different leading edge const ruction etc.). Not to bother Pietenpol builders with things not related to them, I've formed Grega GN-1 group on Yahoo, >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GregaGN1/ >and all things Grega-specific and non-Pietenpol related I will post there. Feel free to join. > >Regards, >Ivan Todorovic > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275554#275554 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar_146.pdf >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar3_612.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar2_127.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar1_907.jpg > > ________________________________- Message 2- __________________________ ___________ Time: 04:03:43 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B The lithium crystals are cracketed and hung like a Christmas tree. do not archive ________________________________ From: Robert Ray Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:59:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Captain to engine room, Scotty warp speed, AH! CAPTAIN I can't do that the lithium crystals are melting down! There's relays SMOKING! Captain to Scotty WARP speed NOW! This was so cool, I didn't think you would however find relays in a Star Ship but who knows. Russell On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed t hat Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of cours e you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. > >Blue Skies, >Steve "trek" D > ________________________________- Message 3- __________________________ ___________ Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not li ke they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in them. ________________________________ From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed t hat Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of cours e you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. Blue Skies, Steve "trek" D ________________________________- Message 4- __________________________ ___________ Time: 05:01:02 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full loa d I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also. Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly. Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "coxwelljon" Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load > > > [quote="zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ"]The leverage is determined by the dista nce > from the- middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by the length f rom > the- control cable connection to the pivot. That should get you a rough > idea of- the loads involved. > Regards Mike T. > >>- - --- > > > I think what- John is asking and the question I would ask is "how much > stick force does it take to fly a Piet and in my case a GN-1 in the > various phases of flight?- Is it a 2 finger chore or do I need some gym > work before my first flight? > > Another related question - Does anyone know the proper tension for the > control cables to the elevator and to the ailerons.- I have adjusted th e > routing or my elevator cables so they do not rest on the stabilizer with > the elevator in the full down position and they are more equal in tension > throughout the travel range but I don't know how much tension to adjust > into them. > > -------- > Jon Coxwell > Recycle and preserve the planet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275590#275590 > > > ________________________________- Message 5- __________________________ ___________ Time: 07:32:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load From: "vman1922" One time read an article by a test pilot.- He mentioned the term 1,2, and 3 or was it five.- Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two and rudder force being three (maybe five) times as great.- this relationship was considere d an ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am sure.- He had a device he put on the stick to measure the force.- It was an EAA article.- Thin k it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft. So this probably does not answer the question but might be good for thought /discussion. John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville).- May I visit you and your pro ject sometime??? I am new to list and have started working on ribs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603 ________________________________- Message 6- __________________________ ___________ Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full loa d Quarryville, Groff & Groff a great place for poplar that's where I got- a ll of mine, even the 16 foot spar material. That's great to hear someone- so close. I typically work on it Saturday and Sundays but lets set up a time a nd date. You and every other piet builder (and sometime RV builder, okay- an y airplane builder) is always welcome in my shop. my cell is 215-208-8309 call me, I get few visitors but enjoy visiting other builders. I am home- today but work in Philadelphia area so I don't usually get home till around 7:00- PM or later but I am certain we can set something up. Just let me k now- when. I got a fuse framed and supported, wings built and tail feathers so I can - and am more than willing to answer any questions you may have along the way , all- you need do is ask. You may want to send your contact info so I can add it into- my address book. Thanks John In a message dated 12/1/2009 10:33:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,- kkamp72@comcast.net writes: -->- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "vman1922"- One time read an article by a test- pilot.- He mentioned the term 1,2, and 3 or was it five.- Aileron- force being 1, elevator force being two and rudder force being three (maybe- five) times as great.- this relationsh ip was considered an ideal- harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am sure.- He had a- device he put on the stick to measure the force.- It was an EAA article.- Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft. So- this probably does not answer the question but might be good for- thought/discussion. John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville).---May I visit you and you r project sometime??? I am new to list and have- started working on ribs. Read this topic online- here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603 ________________________________- Message 7- __________________________ ___________ Time: 12:04:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B From: Rick Holland Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals. rick "Logic is a wreath- of pretty flowers, that smell bad" On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE wrote: > Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the da ys > of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least n ot > like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them sel ves > in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in > them. > >- ------------------------------ > *From:* "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B > > I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at > an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was ama zed > that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But o f > course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. > > Blue Skies, > Steve "trek" D > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________- Message 8- __________________________ ___________ Time: 12:47:03 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B From: "Bill Church" Wooop-wooop-wooop! (geek alarm going off) Just kidding, Rick. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals. rick "Logic is a wreath- of pretty flowers, that smell bad"- On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE wrote: --- Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in them. ________________________________ --- From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" --- To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com --- Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM --- Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B --- I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. --- Blue Skies, --- Steve "trek" D ________________________________- Message 9- __________________________ ___________ Time: 07:15:31 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........ Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft photos. Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight. Very nice, Rob! Greg C. ________________________________- Message 10- _________________________ ___________ Time: 08:18:47 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets Hi All, Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ? Thanks, Jim ________________________________- Message 11- _________________________ ___________ Time: 09:13:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load From: "coxwelljon" gcardinal(at)comcast.net wrote: > I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on > NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron > control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also. > Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly. > > Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove > slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction. > > Greg C. > > --- Thanks Greg, That is helpful.- I have made some aluminum blocks with 1 1/4" sheaves to replace the hardwood guide blocks that were installed on my project.- The elevato r controls seemed heavy when I rigged the cables.- The cable changes direct ion about 15 deg. now but runs nice and smooth with little friction.- I did not wan t to put too much stress on the elevator control horns but have enough tensio n to avoid flutter.- Maybe I am being too concerned. -------- Jon Coxwell- GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275682#275682 ________________________________- Message 12- _________________________ ___________ Time: 09:33:36 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... Nicely done, Rob!! (Thanks, Greg.) ..seems like there should be a Rob Bach Calender.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) Do not archive - _____- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........ Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft photos .. Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight. Very nice, Rob! Greg C. le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 From: Ryan Mueller Vi Kapler 1033 Forest Hills Dr SW Rochester, MN 55902-2365 (507) 288-3322 On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:59 AM, Dallas wrote: > Hi folks, > Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet. > Any leads greatly appreciated! > > Thanks, > Dallas > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:32 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Of possible interest: Air & Space article on automotive vs. aircraft engines Article title: POWER STRUGGLE: Why car engines can't fly Article source: Air & Space Smithsonian magazine, Jan. 1997 Author: Don Sherman ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load From: "vman1922" John, I will call tonight or sometime soon. Hopefully a Saturday will work for you. I live 1/4 mile from Groff&Groff - need any more wood?? Ken Kamp cell 717-368-0186 Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275720#275720 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets From: Rick Holland No On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I got > several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are the > gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:27 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: stick input forces at rest and at full load I was amazed at how nice the control forces are in flight. While repairing/rebuilding 41CC and having never flown it or any other Piet before, the controls seemed draggy and noisy when I exercised them on the ground and tuned up the cable tensions. In flight, that all seems to disappear and the controls are very nice. Elevators are quite sensitive (in my opinion); and especially on the ground they are a night-and-day change from, say, Cessnas; ailerons not so much but still very smooth. Rudder is nice too, but I have a rudder bar and it will never be as sensitive to control as individual pedals will be simply because you're working the control with large leg muscles rather than smaller, finer foot and ankle muscles. I like the controls on the Piet very much. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:55 AM PST US From: "Perry Rhoads" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 Vitalis Kapler Rochester,MN. 507-288-3322 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dallas To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 Hi folks, Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet. Any leads greatly appreciated! Thanks, Dallas --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 To: "Pietenpol-List Digest List" Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:58 AM * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/01/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:40 AM - Re: Re: built up spars (Tim Willis) 2. 04:03 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (H RULE) 3. 04:09 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (H RULE) 4. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (gcardinal) 5. 07:32 AM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (vman1922) 6. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 7. 12:04 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (Rick Holland) 8. 12:47 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (Bill Church) 9. 07:15 PM - Slow List..... (gcardinal) 10. 08:18 PM - Fuselage bottom gussets (jim) 11. 09:13 PM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (coxwelljon) 12. 09:33 PM - Re: Slow List..... (Gary Boothe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:10 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars Ivan, That looks like a great piece of work. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: "ivan.todorovic" >Sent: Nov 30, 2009 3:48 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars > > >Attached are three drawings of the built box-spar for Piet Air Camper. Many Thanks to Peter W. Johnson for all the info from the original (UK designed) plans. > >Grega builders may expect their version in the future, together with adequate Riblett rib-jig plans (31" GN-1 spar distance, different leading edge construction etc.). Not to bother Pietenpol builders with things not related to them, I've formed Grega GN-1 group on Yahoo, >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GregaGN1/ >and all things Grega-specific and non-Pietenpol related I will post there. Feel free to join. > >Regards, >Ivan Todorovic > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275554#275554 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar_146.pdf >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar3_612.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar2_127.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar1_907.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:43 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B The lithium crystals are cracketed and hung like a Christmas tree. do not archive ________________________________ From: Robert Ray Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:59:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Captain to engine room, Scotty warp speed, AH! CAPTAIN I can't do that the lithium crystals are melting down! There's relays SMOKING! Captain to Scotty WARP speed NOW! This was so cool, I didn't think you would however find relays in a Star Ship but who knows. Russell On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. > >Blue Skies, >Steve "trek" D > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in them. ________________________________ From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. Blue Skies, Steve "trek" D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:02 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also. Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly. Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "coxwelljon" Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load > > > [quote="zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ"]The leverage is determined by the distance > from the middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by the length from > the control cable connection to the pivot. That should get you a rough > idea of the loads involved. > Regards Mike T. > >> --- > > > I think what John is asking and the question I would ask is "how much > stick force does it take to fly a Piet and in my case a GN-1 in the > various phases of flight? Is it a 2 finger chore or do I need some gym > work before my first flight? > > Another related question - Does anyone know the proper tension for the > control cables to the elevator and to the ailerons. I have adjusted the > routing or my elevator cables so they do not rest on the stabilizer with > the elevator in the full down position and they are more equal in tension > throughout the travel range but I don't know how much tension to adjust > into them. > > -------- > Jon Coxwell > Recycle and preserve the planet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275590#275590 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load From: "vman1922" One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the term 1,2, and 3 or was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two and rudder force being three (maybe five) times as great. this relationship was considered an ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am sure. He had a device he put on the stick to measure the force. It was an EAA article. Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft. So this probably does not answer the question but might be good for thought/discussion. John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you and your project sometime??? I am new to list and have started working on ribs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load Quarryville, Groff & Groff a great place for poplar that's where I got all of mine, even the 16 foot spar material. That's great to hear someone so close. I typically work on it Saturday and Sundays but lets set up a time and date. You and every other piet builder (and sometime RV builder, okay any airplane builder) is always welcome in my shop. my cell is 215-208-8309 call me, I get few visitors but enjoy visiting other builders. I am home today but work in Philadelphia area so I don't usually get home till around 7:00 PM or later but I am certain we can set something up. Just let me know when. I got a fuse framed and supported, wings built and tail feathers so I can and am more than willing to answer any questions you may have along the way, all you need do is ask. You may want to send your contact info so I can add it into my address book. Thanks John In a message dated 12/1/2009 10:33:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kkamp72@comcast.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "vman1922" One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the term 1,2, and 3 or was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two and rudder force being three (maybe five) times as great. this relationship was considered an ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am sure. He had a device he put on the stick to measure the force. It was an EAA article. Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft. So this probably does not answer the question but might be good for thought/discussion. John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you and your project sometime??? I am new to list and have started working on ribs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B From: Rick Holland Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals. rick "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE wrote: > Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days > of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not > like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves > in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in > them. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B > > I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at > an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed > that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of > course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. > > Blue Skies, > Steve "trek" D > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:03 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B From: "Bill Church" Wooop-wooop-wooop! (geek alarm going off) Just kidding, Rick. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals. rick "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE wrote: Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in them. ________________________________ From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. Blue Skies, Steve "trek" D ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:31 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........ Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft photos. Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight. Very nice, Rob! Greg C. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:47 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets Hi All, Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ? Thanks, Jim ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load From: "coxwelljon" gcardinal(at)comcast.net wrote: > I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on > NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron > control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also. > Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly. > > Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove > slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction. > > Greg C. > > --- Thanks Greg, That is helpful. I have made some aluminum blocks with 1 1/4" sheaves to replace the hardwood guide blocks that were installed on my project. The elevator controls seemed heavy when I rigged the cables. The cable changes direction about 15 deg. now but runs nice and smooth with little friction. I did not want to put too much stress on the elevator control horns but have enough tension to avoid flutter. Maybe I am being too concerned. -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275682#275682 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:36 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... Nicely done, Rob!! (Thanks, Greg.) ..seems like there should be a Rob Bach Calender.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........ Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft photos. Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE sp;--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpbsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -===== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? From: "Billy McCaskill" I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them as they did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this, but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions. Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL/Baker, LA tail feathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:17 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? Billy: I purchased one of the Harbor Freight multi-tool knock offs about two months ago and have found it to work satisfactorily. I realize that is not a very long trial period. On the plus side it is a small fraction of the cost of the name brands. On the down side it does not have available all the tools that some of the others do. My philosophy on Harbor Freight has always been: If you need a cheap tool that will not be used all that much but would be useful right now - buy HF or similar. If you want a tool that will last long enough to pass down to your kids - suck it up and buy the good stuff. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS the Harbor Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying one? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:17 PM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? Hi Billy I purchased one of those multi function cutters from harbor Frei ght about a month ago to do a cutting job on my Piet to add some brake cabl e pulleys underneath the belly stringers that were already in place. I coul dn't figure out any other way to do a neat cut and didn't want to spend big bucks I don't know how long it will last but I figure if I only use it to do those jobs that my other tools wont it's worth the money. It seems to b e very well built and it does things other tools just wont do. I'd say for the money it's a great buy. Ed Grentzer > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinion s? > From: billmz@cox.net > Date: Wed=2C 2 Dec 2009 14:32:18 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor Frei ght MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99)=2C in your opin ion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying on e? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor Freigh t in the past=2C and have invariably been disappointed in them as they did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and not a bused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this=2C bu t if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions. > > Billy McCaskill > Urbana=2C IL/Baker=2C LA > tail feathers almost done > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/videos-tours.aspx?h=7sec&slide id=1&media=aero-shake-7second&listid=1&stop=1&ocid=PID24727::T:WL MTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_7secdemo:122009 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:41 PM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? I used mine today. It works well for the light duty occasional use. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy McCaskill" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? > > I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor > Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your > opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend > buying one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from > Harbor Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them > as they did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as > intended and not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction > tool like this, but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have > purchased before then I will pass on buying this. Thanks for your > opinions. > > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL/Baker, LA > tail feathers almost done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:33 PM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 I used hinges from the RANS kit planes. Stainless steel and fitted to the elevators and rudder.--Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: Dallas To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 Hi folks, Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet. Any leads greatly appreciated! Thanks, Dallas --- On Wed, 12/2/09, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: From: Pietenpol-List Digest Server Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09 To: "Pietenpol-List Digest List" Date: Wednesday, December 2, 2009, 12:58 AM * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 09-12-01&Archive=Pietenpol ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/01/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:40 AM - Re: Re: built up spars (Tim Willis) 2. 04:03 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (H RULE) 3. 04:09 AM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (H RULE) 4. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (gcardinal) 5. 07:32 AM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (vman1922) 6. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 7. 12:04 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (Rick Holland) 8. 12:47 PM - Re: OT Spock and his E-6B (Bill Church) 9. 07:15 PM - Slow List..... (gcardinal) 10. 08:18 PM - Fuselage bottom gussets (jim) 11. 09:13 PM - Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load (coxwelljon) 12. 09:33 PM - Re: Slow List..... (Gary Boothe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:10 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars Ivan, That looks like a great piece of work. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: "ivan.todorovic" >Sent: Nov 30, 2009 3:48 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars > > >Attached are three drawings of the built box-spar for Piet Air Camper. Many Thanks to Peter W. Johnson for all the info from the original (UK designed) plans. > >Grega builders may expect their version in the future, together with adequate Riblett rib-jig plans (31" GN-1 spar distance, different leading edge construction etc.). Not to bother Pietenpol builders with things not related to them, I've formed Grega GN-1 group on Yahoo, >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GregaGN1/ >and all things Grega-specific and non-Pietenpol related I will post there. Feel free to join. > >Regards, >Ivan Todorovic > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275554#275554 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar_146.pdf >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar3_612.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar2_127.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar1_907.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:43 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B The lithium crystals are cracketed and hung like a Christmas tree. do not archive ________________________________ From: Robert Ray Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:59:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Captain to engine room, Scotty warp speed, AH! CAPTAIN I can't do that the lithium crystals are melting down! There's relays SMOKING! Captain to Scotty WARP speed NOW! This was so cool, I didn't think you would however find relays in a Star Ship but who knows. Russell On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. > >Blue Skies, >Steve "trek" D > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:16 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in them. ________________________________ From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. Blue Skies, Steve "trek" D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:02 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also. Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly. Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "coxwelljon" Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load > > > [quote="zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ"]The leverage is determined by the distance > from the middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by the length from > the control cable connection to the pivot. That should get you a rough > idea of the loads involved. > Regards Mike T. > >> --- > > > I think what John is asking and the question I would ask is "how much > stick force does it take to fly a Piet and in my case a GN-1 in the > various phases of flight? Is it a 2 finger chore or do I need some gym > work before my first flight? > > Another related question - Does anyone know the proper tension for the > control cables to the elevator and to the ailerons. I have adjusted the > routing or my elevator cables so they do not rest on the stabilizer with > the elevator in the full down position and they are more equal in tension > throughout the travel range but I don't know how much tension to adjust > into them. > > -------- > Jon Coxwell > Recycle and preserve the planet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275590#275590 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:11 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load From: "vman1922" One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the term 1,2, and 3 or was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two and rudder force being three (maybe five) times as great. this relationship was considered an ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am sure. He had a device he put on the stick to measure the force. It was an EAA article. Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft. So this probably does not answer the question but might be good for thought/discussion. John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you and your project sometime??? I am new to list and have started working on ribs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load Quarryville, Groff & Groff a great place for poplar that's where I got all of mine, even the 16 foot spar material. That's great to hear someone so close. I typically work on it Saturday and Sundays but lets set up a time and date. You and every other piet builder (and sometime RV builder, okay any airplane builder) is always welcome in my shop. my cell is 215-208-8309 call me, I get few visitors but enjoy visiting other builders. I am home today but work in Philadelphia area so I don't usually get home till around 7:00 PM or later but I am certain we can set something up. Just let me know when. I got a fuse framed and supported, wings built and tail feathers so I can and am more than willing to answer any questions you may have along the way, all you need do is ask. You may want to send your contact info so I can add it into my address book. Thanks John In a message dated 12/1/2009 10:33:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kkamp72@comcast.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "vman1922" One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the term 1,2, and 3 or was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two and rudder force being three (maybe five) times as great. this relationship was considered an ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am sure. He had a device he put on the stick to measure the force. It was an EAA article. Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft. So this probably does not answer the question but might be good for thought/discussion. John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you and your project sometime??? I am new to list and have started working on ribs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B From: Rick Holland Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals. rick "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE wrote: > Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days > of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not > like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves > in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in > them. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B > > I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at > an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed > that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of > course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. > > Blue Skies, > Steve "trek" D > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:03 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B From: "Bill Church" Wooop-wooop-wooop! (geek alarm going off) Just kidding, Rick. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals. rick "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE wrote: Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in them. ________________________________ From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last. Blue Skies, Steve "trek" D ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:31 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........ Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft photos. Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight. Very nice, Rob! Greg C. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:47 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets Hi All, Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ? Thanks, Jim ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load From: "coxwelljon" gcardinal(at)comcast.net wrote: > I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on > NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron > control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also. > Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly. > > Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove > slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction. > > Greg C. > > --- Thanks Greg, That is helpful. I have made some aluminum blocks with 1 1/4" sheaves to replace the hardwood guide blocks that were installed on my project. The elevator controls seemed heavy when I rigged the cables. The cable changes direction about 15 deg. now but runs nice and smooth with little friction. I did not want to put too much stress on the elevator control horns but have enough tension to avoid flutter. Maybe I am being too concerned. -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275682#275682 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:36 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... Nicely done, Rob!! (Thanks, Greg.) ..seems like there should be a Rob Bach Calender.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slow List..... While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........ Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft photos. Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE sp;--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpbsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -===== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:33 PM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Pietenpol-List: for sale or trade I have the following items for sale or trade. Federal Mogul main bearings for corvair .010 Seal Power rod bearings for corvair .010 GN-1 engine mount for a C85 Bryan Green Elgin SC GN-1 Aircamper N1736 rebuilding ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:33 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: for sale or trade How can I contact you to discuss these Corvair items? Rob Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, AK (907) 230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan green Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: for sale or trade I have the following items for sale or trade. Federal Mogul main bearings for corvair .010 Seal Power rod bearings for corvair .010 GN-1 engine mount for a C85 Bryan Green Elgin SC GN-1 Aircamper N1736 rebuilding ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:20 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets No On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim wrote: Hi All, Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ? Thanks, Jim _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: for sale or trade From: "hwaller" Hi, Could you explain if/how the GN-1 engine mount differs from the air camper mount. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275896#275896 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets From: Rick Holland That's correct Jim, all 1/8" gussets. Rick On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, jim wrote: > Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then? > > Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rick Holland > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets > > No > > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I >> got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are >> the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:31 PM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets Thanks Rick!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets That's correct Jim, all 1/8" gussets. Rick On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, jim wrote: Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets No On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim wrote: Hi All, Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ? Thanks, Jim _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? From: ken anderson I have one and works fine. I have been using it in a kitchen remodel.The blades seem to be of a cheap quality and wear easily. Dremel brand blades look like they might work but havn't tried yet. Look in some hot rod magazines Harbor Freight always has adds with this tool as low as 2999 and there is always a 20% off coupon. Ken On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote: > > I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor > Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your > opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying > one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor > Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them as they > did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and > not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this, > but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I > will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions. > > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL/Baker, LA > tail feathers almost done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:10 PM PST US From: "Mike Whaley" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? The one issue with it is that it won't accept other manufacturer's accessories... Dremel blades don't work in it for sure, so you have to go back to HF for more blades. To be fair, I believe this applies to all brands of multi-tools, it's not just HF at fault here. My father in law got one of these a couple months ago for his handyman business, and the first time he used it, it became about his favorite tool... ever. It's really saved his bacon on projects quite a few times. He said the other day, "When this one wears out, I'll be happy to buy the really nice, expensive model to replace it, but this one just might go for a good while." He told me that the higher-end brands have more "throw" to the vibration of the blade, but the HF version still works just fine. I've used it a couple times, and believe me, that sucker instantly became on of those "can't-live-without" kind of tools. They can cut where there just isn't any other way to do it. The only problem I've noticed is that when I was using it to sand something, my hand naturally wanted to hold it up high, towards the business end, and my hand position naturally covered up the cooling vents a bit. That being said, it didn't get very warm or anything so I don't think it's an issue, really. You can also use the B&D "mouse" velcro-backed sanding pads with the triangular sanding accessory too... just cut the excess off with scissors, or don't... it works either way. The only recommendation I have against this tool is that it's very likely to become a tool that you will use A LOT, so if other ones have more features or more accessories or are more ergonomic to you, then that alone might be well worth the extra cost. HF doesn't seem to have a ton of different blades, but then I haven't looked at what's out there for any other brands other than the one Dremel blade I saw that didn't fit. Still, if it croaks tomorrow (after 2 months of use), I'm certain Dave would say he's gotten his money's worth several times over. No reason to think it will, though, at least it was still like new the other day when I used it! I almost feel like that cheesy old commercial... "Please, if you don't get a multi-tool at Harbor Freight, get a multi-tool SOMEWHERE". But it really has proven to be that useful. Thus far, the HF power tools I've used (mostly borrowed from my father-in-law) have seemed to be fine in function and strength. They are even probably the most cost-effective choice in the many cases when you just need it once in a while and don't need some really esoteric capability from it. Dave's HF multi tool, chop saw, and electric planer all continue to work well after a year or two of occasional (or even quite regular) usage in a variety of projects. His HF hammer drill died over the summer, but that did get a lot of use and as I recall the story, it lasted longer than he expected, given the duty it was being subjected to (they really needed a jackhammer but the hammer drill was all that was available). My small wet/dry vac still works great after several years. I probably would look elsewhere for the 10% of tools that will see heavy, constant, strenuous use, where high precision is critical, or where maximum features are important... for instance, a cordless drill/driver, or a lathe, home neurosurgery kit, etc. Then, obviously you should buy the best and most versatile one you can afford. But I've found that when the tool fits into the "I won't use it too much, I don't need a bunch of bells and whistles... but when I need it, I've really gotta have one handy" category... and face it, MANY of our favorite tools actually fit firmly within that definition... it can be awfully hard to justify spending twice the price for a high-end tool when the HF version will probably work just as well 95% of the time. Plus you'll have more money left over, so you can go buy some OTHER tools to play with. Yippee! :) He who dies with the most tools... is still dead. -Mike Mike Whaley MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy McCaskill" Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:32 PM Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions? > > I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them as they did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this, but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions. > > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL/Baker, LA > tail feathers almost done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.