---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/07/09: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: Re: T-88 (Ryan Mueller) 2. 01:58 AM - Re: Re: T-88 (Robert Ray) 3. 03:26 AM - Re: Riblett 612 plans needed (ivan.todorovic) 4. 06:16 AM - Re: T-88 (airlion) 5. 07:23 AM - Re: T-88 (tkreiner) 6. 07:33 AM - Re: Riblett 612 plans needed (tkreiner) 7. 08:49 AM - Riblett 612 plans needed (Oscar Zuniga) 8. 09:00 AM - Re: T-88 (K5YAC) 9. 09:30 AM - Re: Riblett 612 plans needed (Ken Howe) 10. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: T-88 (Dan Yocum) 11. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Any instruments for sale? (Dan Yocum) 12. 10:39 AM - SpaceShipTwo (TOM STINEMETZE) 13. 11:39 AM - Re: SpaceShipTwo (Tim Willis) 14. 11:50 AM - Re: SpaceShipTwo (TOM STINEMETZE) 15. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: Any instruments for sale? (David Paule) 16. 12:36 PM - Re: SpaceShipTwo (Tim Willis) 17. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Any instruments for sale? (Dick Navratil) 18. 02:40 PM - Re: SpaceShipTwo (TOM STINEMETZE) 19. 03:08 PM - Re: T-88 (Dave and Connie) 20. 03:17 PM - Re: SpaceShipTwo (Eric Williams) 21. 03:45 PM - Ohio Piet Fly-in (shad bell) 22. 04:45 PM - Re: T-88 (Gary Boothe) 23. 04:45 PM - Re: Re: T-88 (Dave and Connie) 24. 04:49 PM - Re: T-88 (Ryan Mueller) 25. 05:29 PM - Re: T-88 (Dave and Connie) 26. 05:32 PM - Re: Ohio Piet Fly-in (Jason Holmes) 27. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: T-88 (Dave and Connie) 28. 05:59 PM - Re: Riblett Airfoil U? (Ryan M) 29. 06:03 PM - Re: SpaceShipTwo (Rick Holland) 30. 06:20 PM - Re: T-88 (David Paule) 31. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad (Robert Ray) 32. 09:07 PM - Re: Karetaker aero website link bad (flea) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88 From: Ryan Mueller A friend turned me on to it....very useful at times. :P Odds are most places will be selling it for roughly the same price. You'll have those oddball uber-expensive places, but for the most part mail-order suppliers should be roughly the same price; just have to figure out who will ultimately be cheaper after s+h. The cheapest way to get it would probably be to go to the System Three website and find a local retailer; their unit price may be a little higher than mail order, but since you pay no shipping and handling it would most likely be cheaper. Worst case, just order some from AS&S. Either way, you're talking about a difference of a few bucks here or there....just order it from somewhere and get to building! :) Ryan On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:35 AM, flea wrote: > > ok thats exactly the kind of answer I would have given. I love the link > never knew that existed. I think I will use that in the future. > > That said, I think he is asking if anyone has a source that has a good > price short of googling every supplier on the web. his question wasn't where > can he get it, the question was who has the best price. So that clarified a > bit, anyone here know of a specific supplier that is asking a really good > price, or is it all about the same. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276539#276539 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88 From: Robert Ray Also RAKA sells excellent boat building epoxy, all test I've read and my experience is it is low amin blush and probably has greater wood permability because of low vicosity when using slow cure at the correct temperature. Go to RAKA.com Is used in Kayaks large and small boats. Russell On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:02 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > A friend turned me on to it....very useful at times. :P > > Odds are most places will be selling it for roughly the same price. You'll > have those oddball uber-expensive places, but for the most part mail-order > suppliers should be roughly the same price; just have to figure out who will > ultimately be cheaper after s+h. The cheapest way to get it would probably > be to go to the System Three website and find a local retailer; their unit > price may be a little higher than mail order, but since you pay no shipping > and handling it would most likely be cheaper. > > Worst case, just order some from AS&S. Either way, you're talking about a > difference of a few bucks here or there....just order it from somewhere and > get to building! :) > > Ryan > > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:35 AM, flea wrote: > >> >> ok thats exactly the kind of answer I would have given. I love the link >> never knew that existed. I think I will use that in the future. >> >> That said, I think he is asking if anyone has a source that has a good >> price short of googling every supplier on the web. his question wasn't where >> can he get it, the question was who has the best price. So that clarified a >> bit, anyone here know of a specific supplier that is asking a really good >> price, or is it all about the same. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276539#276539 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> le, List Admin. >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:23 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett 612 plans needed From: "ivan.todorovic" I've got them from John Woods table, I wrote to him and in e-mail he confirmed to me that they are from the book. Don't worry, these coordinates are correct, they can also be found on several reliable places. There are two other sets of 612 coordinates roaming around the Internet with slightly different trailing edge coordinates. Coordinates for 613.5 where a bigger challenge to confirm that there are correct, I've found only two other aircraft except AirCamper who use this airfoil, but finally I've found one other source of coordinates to confirm the table. So, I've posted here the drawings I've made from John's coordinates for both airfoils and, as far as I'm concerned, consider them correct and I'm going to build using them. I would love if someone triple check them. Ivan aircamperace(at)yahoo.com wrote: > Ivan, where did you get your coordinates from. There seems to be a bit of confusion out there. I bought Riblet's book and the GA30-612 wasn't in there Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276549#276549 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:53 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Fiberglass Coatings in St. Petersburg, Fla has a good two part glue that is easy to use. I have used a lot of it during my boat building days. I also have it on my Piet when I was short of T88. Cheers, Gardiner ________________________________ From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Sun, December 6, 2009 10:54:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=t-88+epoxy On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Dave and Connie wrote: > >Who has the best price on the quart size T-88? > >Dave > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88 From: "tkreiner" The best place I've found to do price comparisons is MySimon. Take a look at the various quantities of T-88 at the places shown here: http://www.mysimon.com/find/T-88+Epoxy TK -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276571#276571 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett 612 plans needed From: "tkreiner" Ivan, The GA30-612 Stations and Ordinates are shown on page 58 of the GA Airfoils book by Harry Riblett. As with all airfoil tables, these are set at 100% chord, and in order to use, will need to be converted to the 60 in. chord if that's what you want to use as your chord length. If you don't know how to convert, contact me offline, and I'll send you the calculated Stations and Ordinates. This is very easily done with an Excel spreadsheet. When you go to plot, you will need to remember that there are both positive and negative Ordinates, shown in the tables as "upper" and "lower." Hope this helps. TK -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276573#276573 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:27 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 plans needed Question for those of you who are using, or who have already built, using the Riblett airfoil: are you continuing to use the standard dimension for the wing spar depth (4-3/4" for main spar) and inserting blocking to fill the gap, or are you using deeper spars? If you keep the same chordwise spacing between spars (27-1/2"), the Riblett airfoil is deeper than the Pietenpol airfoil at the main spar station by about 9/16". Just curious; thanks. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88 From: "K5YAC" Ryan Mueller wrote: > http://lmgtfy.com/?q=t-88+epoxy (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=t-88+epoxy) > [b] That is hilarious. Gotta keep that one handy. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276588#276588 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 plans needed From: Ken Howe I've posted a few sketches and pictures of my 612 jig and rib construction. Briefly, I'm planning on standard 4 3/4" spars with blocking under the front spar and small wedges on the top of both spars. You should be able to search the archives for my earlier posts. --Ken On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:48:53 -0600, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Question for those of you who are using, or who have > already built, using the Riblett airfoil: are you > continuing to use the standard dimension for the > wing spar depth (4-3/4" for main spar) and inserting > blocking to fill the gap, or are you using deeper > spars? If you keep the same chordwise spacing > between spars (27-1/2"), the Riblett airfoil is > deeper than the Pietenpol airfoil at the main > spar station by about 9/16". > > Just curious; thanks. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:19 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88 Don't forget that froogle.google.com and search for t-88: http://www.google.com/products?q=t-88+"system+three"&scoring=p flea wrote: > > ok thats exactly the kind of answer I would have given. I love the link never knew that existed. I think I will use that in the future. > > That said, I think he is asking if anyone has a source that has a good price short of googling every supplier on the web. his question wasn't where can he get it, the question was who has the best price. So that clarified a bit, anyone here know of a specific supplier that is asking a really good price, or is it all about the same. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276539#276539 > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:14 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any instruments for sale? Rotec used to make vintage looking steam gauges (as of early 2008)... I'm not sure if they still do because I can't seem to find them on their website. Cheers, Dan chase143 wrote: > > Roger that Jack, sounds like a great reason to return to SNF/BH/OSH!! > > John, thanks, same here. Got a bunch of old (WWII) gages, heavy and most inop. I didn't realize how quick I would be working on the instrument panel, now it's on hold until I know what I'll have. > > I wonder if Matt would consider adding a separate "classified page" on this list. Our similar boat forum page has one and it is very active. Would be a good way to share/swap pieces and parts. > > Steve > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276216#276216 > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:08 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo I'm not going to mention this more than once since I get pretty irate when others go on and on about their kids' accomplishments, but... You should see quite a bit of media hype this evening concerning the rollout by Scaled Composites and Virgin Galactic of SpaceShipTwo "Virgin Galactic Enterprise." My two boys are employees of Scaled Composites and will be involved in the hoopla in one form or another. They were also involved when SpaceShipOne (N328KF) won the Ansari "X" Prize a few years ago. So, watch for the name Stinemetze as it might squeek past the newsies by accident. "What has this got to do with Pietenpols?" you may ask. Well, it was watching my kids actually get to accomplish something worthwhile that gave me the mental boost to get out there and do something that I've always wanted to do - build an airplane. My Air Camper is now 5+ years into what I thought would be a 5-year project but I'm getting there a little bit at a time. I am seriously considering the name "SpaceShip0.1" in honor of the project that got me off my lazy ... well you know. I wonder what kind of climb rate I could get with a couple of JATO rockets attached? Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS N328X ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:13 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tom, Glad to see the news no SpaceShipTwo and your sons. OTOH, JATO on a Piet will surely place you in the running for a "Darwin Award." Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Dec 7, 2009 1:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo I'm not going to mention this more than once since I get pretty irate when others go on and on about their kids' accomplishments, but... You should see quite a bit of media hype this evening concerning the rollout by Scaled Composites and Virgin Galactic of SpaceShipTwo "Virgin Galactic Enterprise." My two boys are employees of Scaled Composites and will be involved in the hoopla in one form or another. They were also involved when SpaceShipOne (N328KF) won the Ansari "X" Prize a few years ago. So, watch for the name Stinemetze as it might squeek past the newsies by accident. "What has this got to do with Pietenpols?" you may ask. Well, it was watching my kids actually get to accomplish something worthwhile that gave me the mental boost to get out there and do something that I've always wanted to do - build an airplane. My Air Camper is now 5+ years into what I thought would be a 5-year project but I'm getting there a little bit at a time. I am seriously considering the name "SpaceShip0.1" in honor of the project that got me off my lazy ... well you know. I wonder what kind of climb rate I could get with a couple of JATO rockets attached? Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS N328X ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:07 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tim: Funny you should mention that as it's the same thing my wife said about building my own airplane. Besides, there's no way to make the weight and balance work out with a 400# JATO bottle. Stinemetze Tom, Glad to see the news no SpaceShipTwo and your sons. OTOH, JATO on a Piet will surely place you in the running for a "Darwin Award." Tim in central TX ____ | ____ \8/ / \ BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS@MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS@MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:36 AM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any instruments for sale? If you want a specific look to your instruments, this company does that. I've never used them, it's just something I've heard of. http://www.precisiondial.com/capabilities.asp If you want WW II instruments, they are available, keep looking. They are generally longer and heavier and more durable than current analog gauges, which you can still buy. If you wanted WW I gauges, they are sometimes available, and are usually considerably larger in diameter than the more standard gauge sizes. WW I and immediately postwar WW I aircraft did not include all the gauges we now consider necessary. Airspeed indicators were a luxury, and instead of oil pressure gauges they'd have a pulsator tube. Generally, no compass, either. Their instrument panels were no larger than a Pietenpol's and the larger sizes of instrument back then limited them. Also, there would sometimes be a map-holder on the panel, taking up more space. David Paule ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:36 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tom, We must keep our wives apart-- My wife says about the Piet, "Neither Wilbur nor Orville would get in that thing." BTW, I am sure that neither will she. As I told Chuck Gantzer, however, "The passenger door allows [tall] Nicole Kidman to enter gracefully." Tim in central TX do not archive/tell my wife ;) -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Dec 7, 2009 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tim: Funny you should mention that as it's the same thing my wife said about building my own airplane. Besides, there's no way to make the weight and balance work out with a 400# JATO bottle. Stinemetze ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:28 PM PST US From: "Dick Navratil" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any instruments for sale? Dan The guages Rotec sells are made by VDO. They are called the Vintage Series. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Any instruments for sale? > > Rotec used to make vintage looking steam gauges (as of early 2008)... I'm > not sure if they still do because I can't seem to find them on their > website. > > Cheers, > Dan > > chase143 wrote: >> >> Roger that Jack, sounds like a great reason to return to SNF/BH/OSH!! >> >> John, thanks, same here. Got a bunch of old (WWII) gages, heavy and most >> inop. I didn't realize how quick I would be working on the instrument >> panel, now it's on hold until I know what I'll have. >> >> I wonder if Matt would consider adding a separate "classified page" on >> this list. Our similar boat forum page has one and it is very active. >> Would be a good way to share/swap pieces and parts. >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276216#276216 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:27 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tim: I can see the headlines now : Nicole Kidman gracefully enters homebuilt airplane while the builder/pilot gracefully falls on face." I say this with confidence without having seen either you, your wife, or Nicole Kidman. 8>] Stinemetze do not archive or tell my wife either As I told Chuck Gantzer, however, "The passenger door allows [tall] Nicole Kidman to enter gracefully." Tim in central TX do not archive/tell my wife ;) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:55 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Ryan, Thanks for the answer but it provided no useful information. In fact, I can't understand why you bothered to send the note. The question was based on most of the aircraft web sites looking like they were designed by a 10 year old. Wick's won't even give a shipping estimate without a credit card number. Most of the rest require some sort of registration so that they can send you even more spam. Google won't help with such poor human interface design. Dave Ryan Mueller wrote: > http://lmgtfy.com/?q=t-88+epoxy > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Dave and Connie > wrote: > > > > > Who has the best price on the quart size T-88? > > Dave > > * > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:59 PM PST US From: Eric Williams Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tom=2C I hardly ever post on here but wanted to say you should be very proud of yo ur kids' accomplishment and I'm glad you posted the note. Working at Scale d Composites would be a dream job for me (and likely many here) and this ki nd of news is exciting and inspirational so thanks. Eric From: TOMS@mcpcity.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo I'm not going to mention this more than once since I get pretty irate when others go on and on about their kids' accomplishments=2C but... You should see quite a bit of media hype this evening concerning the rollout by Scale d Composites and Virgin Galactic of SpaceShipTwo "Virgin Galactic Enterpris e." My two boys are employees of Scaled Composites and will be involved in the hoopla in one form or another. They were also involved when SpaceShip One (N328KF) won the Ansari "X" Prize a few years ago. So=2C watch for the name Stinemetze as it might squeek past the newsies by accident. "What has this got to do with Pietenpols?" you may ask. Well=2C it was wat ching my kids actually get to accomplish something worthwhile that gave me the mental boost to get out there and do something that I've always wanted to do - build an airplane. My Air Camper is now 5+ years into what I thoug ht would be a 5-year project but I'm getting there a little bit at a time. I am seriously considering the name "SpaceShip0.1" in honor of the project that got me off my lazy ... well you know. I wonder what kind of climb r ate I could get with a couple of JATO rockets attached? Tom Stinemetze McPherson=2C KS N328X ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:01 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piet Fly-in Hello guys, I am looking at having the piet fly in on the saturday before f athers day, (father's day weekend).- I got my vacation schedule and that looks like my best weekend to arrange it.- Any comments, suggestions?- Anyone who plans on attending please let me know, I want to make sure enoug h people will be able to attend before going through all the work of settin g up the Fly-in.- Again, the airport is Chapman Memorial Airport OH71, Ce nterburg Ohio, about 30 miles north of Columbus Ohio. - Shad - P.S. If this weekend is not good for many of you let me know, there might b e anothe weekend I can work out.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:29 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Dave, Ryan's message was pretty clear...allow me to paraphrase: "It does not take very much T-88 to build a Piet. If you shop really, really hard you might save $10 or $15. So why not just order from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty and be done with it?" Of course, if you feel inclined to spend hours and days on shopping for a source.... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave and Connie Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:07 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Ryan, Thanks for the answer but it provided no useful information. In fact, I can't understand why you bothered to send the note. The question was based on most of the aircraft web sites looking like they were designed by a 10 year old. Wick's won't even give a shipping estimate without a credit card number. Most of the rest require some sort of registration so that they can send you even more spam. Google won't help with such poor human interface design. Dave Ryan Mueller wrote: > http://lmgtfy.com/?q=t-88+epoxy > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Dave and Connie > wrote: > > > > > Who has the best price on the quart size T-88? > > Dave > > * > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:29 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88 Robert Ray wrote: > Also RAKA sells excellent boat building epoxy, all test I've read and > my experience > is it is low amin blush and probably has greater wood permability > because of low vicosity > when using slow cure at the correct temperature. > Go to RAKA.com > Is used in Kayaks large and small boats. Russell, I am very familiar with RAKA products. I probably still have 1/2 gallon around here. We have built 3 stipper canoes and 1 s&g kayak over the years using it. For this job I prefer a 1:1 mix product due to the small quantities being mixed (less error) and don't want to fool around getting the consistency right with carbosil. Now if I was building a plastic airplane I would definitely be ordering from RAKA. Dave ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 From: Ryan Mueller Well, I don't know what to tell you Dave. Using Google's poor human interface, and the 10-year old designed aircraft supply house websites I was able to find the following prices for T-88 quart kits in about 15-20 minutes: Aircraft Spruce $37.85 $10.31 s+h Wicks $36.50 $2.50 handling $9 shipping estimate from UPS (there is a link on the Wicks site directing you there for a shipping quote...no credit card needed) Steen Aero $39.95 no s+h info Wag Aero $35.75 $8.50 s+h Jamestown Distributors $40.07 $11.00 s+h Boatdesigns.com $39.75 $8.88 s+h Merton's Fiberglass and Marine Supply $33.50 See UPS website for shipping estimate Do some sites require registration? Sure....thankfully free email is plentiful and very usable (GMail, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc), so setting up an account exclusively for site registration and other potentially spam-inducing activity is easy enough if that is a concern. I also didn't use any special tools or techniques to gather this information. I just took a few minutes to search around and find it.....which you could have done as well....despite disliking the tools available to help you find it. Have a good night, Ryan On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Dave and Connie wrote: > dmatt@frontiernet.net> > > Ryan, > > Thanks for the answer but it provided no useful information. In fact, I > can't understand why you bothered to send the note. > > The question was based on most of the aircraft web sites looking like they > were designed by a 10 year old. Wick's won't even give a shipping estimate > without a credit card number. Most of the rest require some sort of > registration so that they can send you even more spam. Google won't help > with such poor human interface design. > > Dave > > Ryan Mueller wrote: > >> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=t-88+epoxy >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Dave and Connie > dmatt@frontiernet.net>> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Who has the best price on the quart size T-88? >> >> Dave >> >> * >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:26 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Gary, Thanks for the explanation. I took it purely as a smart a$$ reply. I prefer to support merchants that compete for my business and make it easy to do business with. Amazon and NewEgg.com get a lot of my money. I particularly dislike vendors that like to use shipping as a profit center. Some of these outfits charge more to ship a quart of epoxy than it would cost me to ship 50 pounds of bullets. Some also want to waste my time by having poorly designed web sites. My only local supplier is Woodcraft who only sells the 8oz package. I figure that I will run out of that before I finish my ribs (expect to finish them up by the end of the month). Their cost comes out to about $85/quart. Looking around I found quart prices at around $50 shipped from the aircraft places. Since nobody pointed me at a favorite supplier I did spend 15 minutes looking today froogling and registering on web sites and came up with http://www.goodboatgear.com/detail/6281/%20T-88%20Structural%20Epoxy%20Adhesive who is happy to sell it to me shipped for $43 without playing silly registration games on the site. The first time I started building a Piet in 1998 I bought the wood from Western Aircraft because with a little looking I found them to be a lot cheaper than AS&S or Wicks and they had a great reputation (unlike AS&S at that time). This time I am using locally available wood (poplar and doug fir) and cutting it myself. No large initial investment, no shipping, and no storage space needed. Finished parts will go to my hangar to enjoy the winter. I suppose I could treat purchasing the way the government does and not look at costs but that is not the way I was raised. I simply figured that someone here had looked around and found a good supplier. Much like the suggestion to look at Raka for epoxy. People that use Raka for glassing boats have figured out that West and System 3 are just selling a name in that market and you can easily save $100-200 on a canoe. Dave Gary Boothe wrote: > > Dave, > > Ryan's message was pretty clear...allow me to paraphrase: "It does not take > very much T-88 to build a Piet. If you shop really, really hard you might > save $10 or $15. So why not just order from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty > and be done with it?" > > Of course, if you feel inclined to spend hours and days on shopping for a > source.... > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (16 ribs down. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:01 PM PST US From: "Jason Holmes" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piet Fly-in Shad, I will attend but will be driving in from Marysville. Hopefully, I will have earned my sport pilot certificate with Bill See by then as well. Jason Holmes From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piet Fly-in Hello guys, I am looking at having the piet fly in on the saturday before fathers day, (father's day weekend). I got my vacation schedule and that looks like my best weekend to arrange it. Any comments, suggestions? Anyone who plans on attending please let me know, I want to make sure enough people will be able to attend before going through all the work of setting up the Fly-in. Again, the airport is Chapman Memorial Airport OH71, Centerburg Ohio, about 30 miles north of Columbus Ohio. Shad P.S. If this weekend is not good for many of you let me know, there might be anothe weekend I can work out. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:19 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88 Tom, Thanks. I hadn't seen mysimon.com. I had been looking with froogle.google.com and bing.com. I'll add that one to my list of search engines. Dave tkreiner wrote: > > The best place I've found to do price comparisons is MySimon. > > Take a look at the various quantities of T-88 at the places shown here: > > http://www.mysimon.com/find/T-88+Epoxy > > TK > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:52 PM PST US From: Ryan M Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett Airfoil U? I'm sorry Tom I mispoke. Harry recommended the GA30U-612 in his letter. The U is where I'm stuck. I want to be sure I am using the correct coordinates . His book has the GA30-612 but no GA30U-612. - Ryan M - --- On Mon, 12/7/09, Tom Kreiner wrote: From: Tom Kreiner Subject: Riblett Airfoil You can find the GA30-612 airfoil coordinates on p. 58 of Harry Riblett's b ook, GA Airfoils. Hope this helps. Tom Kreiner =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo From: Rick Holland One of my favorite bumper stickers: "My kid beat up your honor student" On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:37 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *I'm not going to mention this more than once since I get pretty irate > when others go on and on about their kids' accomplishments, but... You > should see quite a bit of media hype this evening concerning the rollout by > Scaled Composites and Virgin Galactic of SpaceShipTwo "Virgin Galactic > Enterprise." My two boys are employees of Scaled Composites and will be > involved in the hoopla in one form or another. They were also involved when > SpaceShipOne (N328KF) won the Ansari "X" Prize a few years ago. So, watch > for the name Stinemetze as it might squeek past the newsies by accident.* > ** > *"What has this got to do with Pietenpols?" you may ask. Well, it was > watching my kids actually get to accomplish something worthwhile that gave > me the mental boost to get out there and do something that I've always > wanted to do - build an airplane. My Air Camper is now 5+ years into what I > thought would be a 5-year project but I'm getting there a little bit at a > time. I am seriously considering the name "SpaceShip0.1" in honor of the > project that got me off my lazy ... well you know. I wonder what kind of > climb rate I could get with a couple of JATO rockets attached?* > ** > *Tom Stinemetze* > *McPherson, KS* > *N328X* > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:33 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Woodworking stores sometimes carry it, too, and there might be one near you. Some boat companies might also, if they carry Systems Three products. David Paule ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad From: Robert Ray Jim, Are you building a Pietenpol? I thought by your user name maybe you were building a Flea? Russell On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Robert Ray wrote: > I watched an experienced builder build one of these, flew it one time and > almost killed him > he took it home took the instruments off poured a mixture of oil and gas on > it it and set > fire to it. > > Russell > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 12:50 AM, flea wrote: > >> >> Typing it in manually works though. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276274#276274 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad From: "flea" nope, its a Pietenpol, well it will be when I get started anyhow. I want to built a GN-1 but am having problems sourcing the plans so it looks like it will be just a regular ole Piet. Not that there is anything wrong with that, don't get me wrong, I just wanted the changes incorporated into the GN1. The Flea name just goes back a decade or more with me, it is short for superflea and has nothing to do with aviation. Don't honestly remember where it came from just one of those things that stuck. Did look at the flying flea but wanted something a little more standard in design. I have always loved the WWI look and the Pietenpol delivers that to my satisfaction while still retaining the point A to B utility that I desire. Flying flea I suppose could also deliver that utility too, but the looks. . .well its an acquired taste that I guess I have not acquired. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276668#276668 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.