Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:14 AM - Re: ARMY aviators, and Corvairs (Robert Ray)
2. 04:48 AM - What is the similarity between ARMY aviators, and Corvairs (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
3. 04:49 AM - clarification (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
4. 05:22 AM - Richard's sloping nose tank sump (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
5. 05:23 AM - Re: Aluminum prices.... (Richard Schreiber)
6. 05:54 AM - Re: Aluminum prices.... (Gary Boothe)
7. 06:00 AM - Re: Richard's sloping nose tank sump (Richard Schreiber)
8. 06:24 AM - King Training Course (Richard Carden)
9. 06:58 AM - Re: King Training Course (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
10. 07:00 AM - Re: Question about Aluminum Props (Bill Church)
11. 07:02 AM - Re: winter flying with an A65 (H RULE)
12. 07:02 AM - Re: King Training Course (Jeff Boatright)
13. 07:06 AM - Re: King Training Course (tkreiner)
14. 07:22 AM - Article on my Piet Project (Michael Groah)
15. 08:04 AM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Ed G.)
16. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: King Training Course (Matt Redmond)
17. 08:27 AM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Jeff Boatright)
18. 08:48 AM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Michael Groah)
19. 08:50 AM - Mike's father/son team Pietenpol building (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
20. 09:20 AM - Re: winter flying with an A65 (Dan Yocum)
21. 09:39 AM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Dan Yocum)
22. 09:44 AM - Re: Mike's father/son team Pietenpol building (Michael Groah)
23. 09:52 AM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (John Hofmann)
24. 10:25 AM - Re: winter flying with an A65 (H RULE)
25. 10:30 AM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Jim)
26. 10:30 AM - Sort off Topic....but maybe not! (Gerry Holland)
27. 10:46 AM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Jeff Boatright)
28. 11:20 AM - Re: King Training Course (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
29. 11:33 AM - Re: Semi-OT: An Owl in Slow Motion (Billy McCaskill)
30. 11:38 AM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Michael Groah)
31. 11:59 AM - Re: Sort off Topic....but maybe not! (flea)
32. 12:04 PM - Re: King Training Course (flea)
33. 12:12 PM - Re: King Training Course (Mike Volckmann)
34. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: King Training Course (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
35. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Sort off Topic....but maybe not! (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
36. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: King Training Course (Matt Redmond)
37. 12:48 PM - Re: King Training Course (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
38. 01:29 PM - Re: King Training Course (Jeff Boatright)
39. 01:40 PM - Re: King Training Course (Matt Redmond)
40. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Sort off Topic....but maybe not! (Matt Redmond)
41. 01:45 PM - Re: King Training Course (Jeff Boatright)
42. 01:51 PM - Re: King Training Course (Wayne Bressler)
43. 01:57 PM - Re: King Training Course (Jeff Boatright)
44. 02:04 PM - Re: King Training Course (Gene & Tammy)
45. 02:13 PM - Re: winter flying with an A65 (Dan Yocum)
46. 02:13 PM - Re: King Training Course (Wayne Bressler)
47. 02:54 PM - Re: winter flying with an A65 (Dave Abramson)
48. 02:54 PM - Re: King Training Course (Jeff Boatright)
49. 03:02 PM - Re: King Training Course (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
50. 03:03 PM - Re: winter flying with an A65 (Gene & Tammy)
51. 03:23 PM - Re: King Training Course (Matt Redmond)
52. 03:36 PM - Re: King Training Course (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
53. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: Semi-OT: An Owl in Slow Motion (Michael Perez)
54. 04:00 PM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Gary Boothe)
55. 04:21 PM - Re: King Training Course (Jeff Boatright)
56. 04:25 PM - Re: King Training Course (David Paule)
57. 04:35 PM - Re: King Training Course (Gene & Tammy)
58. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Semi-OT: An Owl in Slow Motion (Jeff Boatright)
59. 04:37 PM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (Gene & Tammy)
60. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Article on my Piet Project (Jim)
61. 05:48 PM - ribs (stephen labash)
62. 05:53 PM - Re: ribs (David Paule)
63. 05:58 PM - Re: ribs (Ryan Mueller)
64. 05:58 PM - Re: ribs (Gary Boothe)
65. 06:22 PM - Re: ribs (Ed G.)
66. 06:47 PM - Re: ribs (Dave and Connie)
67. 07:40 PM - Re: ribs (David Paule)
68. 08:01 PM - Re: Article on my Piet Project (shad bell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ARMY aviators, and Corvairs |
I feel safer flying one than driving one!
Russell
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:48 PM, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
> What is it with Army aviators and Piets with Corvairs? HA HA, Mr Kevin,
> that is a beutiful Piet! The reason I ask the question is my father is an
> old Nam OH-58 crew chief, UH-1 door gunner, and by God he chose a Corvair.
> Must be some reason, helicopters are contankerous (Spelling?) and corvairs
> can be from time to time. Maybe just because it can be done? Maybe it's
> the challange? What ever it is it works! My hats off to you Kevin, keep
> enjoying flying the friendly skies in your Piet, and Thank you for keeping
> them that way for the rest of us.
>
> Thank YOU,
> Shad
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | What is the similarity between ARMY aviators, and Corvairs |
Sorry Shad (and you know I admire you and your Dad Gary) but on behalf of all
the snooty, high-brow Continental Pietenpol builders and flyers I have to
interject that the answer to this similarity is simple: both are unpredictable
and somewhat unreliable !
I know, I need to take a course in diplomacy at some southern finishing school
but like heard Pastor Ray Lovett say one Sunday about himself "you can't put
whipped cream on an onion."
Mike C.
do not archive
(My hat is off and my pride is very high for ANY person who has, is, or will
serve in ANY branch of our United States of America's armed service branches.
Thank God for those honorable men and women spread across the globe and stateside)
Message 3
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My post was in reference to helicopters and Corvairs: both are.......
(the inference in my post was that Army aviators and Corvairs both are.....
.but that wasn't the point of my jab)
Carry on Infidels !!!!!!
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Richard's sloping nose tank sump |
Richard,
You described to a tee how I designed the shape of my nose tank. (photo a
ttached and more sketches can
be found at: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/design_sketches.htm
I followed Bingelis's fuel tank design advice and used his minimum fuel flo
w (at the carb fuel supply hose)
chart for my engine. I placed the airplane on an earthen barn ramp to sim
ulate climb angle and the chart
Bingelis has shows the amount of fuel (gravity flow) needed at full takeoff
power for your horsepower.
I used a graduated plastic Tupperware-like translucent Kool Aid type pitche
r/container and my second hand
on my watch to time the volume of fuel flowing at various quantities of fue
l remaining in the tank until the
magic number fell below the "useable fuel" flow volume per unit time.
My fuel flow experiment showed that of my 17 gallons in the nose tank that
the unusable amount was 1.5
gallons remaining so essentially about 15 gallons were usable. Keep in mi
nd that at the 1.5 gallons of
fuel remaining and my weight being 200 pounds creates a CG condition that i
s pretty tail heavy
(not beyond limits but requiring a decent amount of forward stick to mainta
in level flight)
Mike C.
[cid:image003.jpg@01CA7970.39236740]
Message 5
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| Subject: | Aluminum prices.... |
Jim:
Apparently the price went up just after I ordered yesterday. When I checked
yesterday evening it was up to about $19, now I see its almost $23.
Rick
> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
> To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/9/2009 7:35:33 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum prices....
>
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> Hey Richard,
>
> I bought some .050 from them also but didn't pay $16 for the 24X48 (but
would LIKE to!)...
>
> Where on the onlinemetals.com site did you find it for $16?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Richard Schreiber
>
> To: pietenpol-list
>
> Sent: 12/9/2009 4:55:37 PM
>
> Subject: Aluminum sheet prices
>
>
>
> Fellow Pieters:
>
> Just as a point of information, I just purchased some aluminum sheet
for my fuel tank. I am using 5052 alloy - .050" thick. A 24 x 48" sheet was
only $16. Their prices and the shipping charges seem to be the best around.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Schreiber
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Aluminum prices.... |
As I told my wife, "If we were gold miners, we would have gotten to
California in 1850."
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Schreiber
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 5:17 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum prices....
<lmforge@earthlink.net>
Jim:
Apparently the price went up just after I ordered yesterday. When I checked
yesterday evening it was up to about $19, now I see its almost $23.
Rick
> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
> To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/9/2009 7:35:33 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum prices....
>
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> Hey Richard,
>
> I bought some .050 from them also but didn't pay $16 for the 24X48 (but
would LIKE to!)...
>
> Where on the onlinemetals.com site did you find it for $16?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Richard Schreiber
>
> To: pietenpol-list
>
> Sent: 12/9/2009 4:55:37 PM
>
> Subject: Aluminum sheet prices
>
>
>
> Fellow Pieters:
>
> Just as a point of information, I just purchased some aluminum sheet
for my fuel tank. I am using 5052 alloy - .050" thick. A 24 x 48" sheet was
only $16. Their prices and the shipping charges seem to be the best around.
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Schreiber
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Richard's sloping nose tank sump |
Mike,
I basically followed your design, except I do not have the rear extension. Since
I originally was going to use a wing tank, I put in the forward bow to support
the cowling (see the attached photo). With the bow in place there was no way
I could get the extension on the tank to fit, unless I made the tank smaller
or cut off the bow. I am using two stainless support straps for and aft as you
show, plus an additional strap across the top. In a good negative g jolt I don't
want to just rely on the cowling and the fuel line to hold the tank in place.
I will try and place the tank as high as possible to get as much fuel pressure
as I can, In addition I will put a forward facing tube in the fuel cap to try
and get a little ram air pressure.
My welder wants me to try and flange the rounded top of the front and back of the
tank. Since I am going to use a wood form to do the flanging I'll practice
some when my aluminum comes in. Since I am going with 0.05" aluminum, flanging
the top may be a problem.
Rick S
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: 12/10/2009 7:24:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Richard's sloping nose tank sump
Richard,
You described to a tee how I designed the shape of my nose tank. (photo attached
and more sketches can
be found at: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/design_sketches.htm
I followed Bingeliss fuel tank design advice and used his minimum fuel flow (at
the carb fuel supply hose)
chart for my engine. I placed the airplane on an earthen barn ramp to simulate
climb angle and the chart
Bingelis has shows the amount of fuel (gravity flow) needed at full takeoff power
for your horsepower.
I used a graduated plastic Tupperware-like translucent Kool Aid type pitcher/container
and my second hand
on my watch to time the volume of fuel flowing at various quantities of fuel remaining
in the tank until the
magic number fell below the useable fuel flow volume per unit time.
My fuel flow experiment showed that of my 17 gallons in the nose tank that the
unusable amount was 1.5
gallons remaining so essentially about 15 gallons were usable. Keep in mind that
at the 1.5 gallons of
fuel remaining and my weight being 200 pounds creates a CG condition that is pretty
tail heavy
(not beyond limits but requiring a decent amount of forward stick to maintain level
flight)
Mike C.
Message 8
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| Subject: | King Training Course |
I'm working on my Light Sport Instructor rating. Does anyone have a
recent/current set of the King Instructor/FOI Cds and manual that
they'd be willing to sell/rent/ lease? If so, please contact me off-
list, please. Thanks, Dick Carden
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Dick, I would be interested in becoming a Light Sport Instructor someday. I don't
have Instrument or Commercial ratings. What would you reccommend for a course
of action? Do it in conjuction with Instrument/commercial or not? Fastest or
cheapest way to get it?
I don't plan on making a living doing it, but would like to teach my grandkids/get
friends excited about flying.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Carden <flywrite@verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>
> I'm working on my Light Sport Instructor rating. Does anyone have a
> recent/current set of the King Instructor/FOI Cds and manual that
> they'd be willing to sell/rent/ lease? If so, please contact me off-
> list, please. Thanks, Dick Carden
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Question about Aluminum Props |
Mystery solved!
Just took a quick look through the TCDS document, and on page 3, it says:
"Production Basis: Production Certificate No.3"
That would correspond to PC3.
Thanks, Ryan.
So, since the diameter/pitch hasn't been re-stamped, I am going to assume that
the prop has not been repitched. The diameter checks out at 73" (with a tape measure).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276989#276989
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: winter flying with an A65 |
AMEN Brother!!=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________
___=0AFrom: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronic
s.com=0ASent: Wed, December 9, 2009 10:18:40 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-Li
st: winter flying with an A65=0A=0A=0A=99=ABYour a lumberjack and your O
K.......=99=AB=99=AB=0A=C2-=0AClif=0A"Better to die of something th
an to die in old age of nothing." ~ =0AAl Sharpton =0A=0Ado not archive=0A-
---- Original Message ----- =0A>From: H RULE =0A>=0A>=0A>Well we fly naked
-========================
========
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
>NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
>Dick, I would be interested in becoming a Light Sport Instructor
>someday. I don't have Instrument or Commercial ratings. What would
>you reccommend for a course of action? Do it in conjuction with
>Instrument/commercial or not? Fastest or cheapest way to get it?
>
>I don't plan on making a living doing it, but would like to teach my
>grandkids/get friends excited about flying.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Be careful using someone else's King Course, as the newer ones require that you
log in each time to verify ownership...
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276994#276994
Message 14
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| Subject: | Article on my Piet Project |
Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project today. It's
fairly accurate, but it's always interesting to see what non-aviation minded
reporters pick up on in their interviews (especially since they did the interview
in September).
The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to the online
version of the article.
http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.htm
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
Message 15
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| Subject: | Article on my Piet Project |
Nice article Mike...It's great that you can work with your dad on projects.
...The plane looks great too..
From: dskogrover@yahoo.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet Project
Well=2C my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project tod
ay. It's fairly accurate=2C but it's always interesting to see what non-av
iation minded reporters pick up on in their interviews (especially since th
ey did the interview in September).
The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to the onl
ine version of the article.
http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.ht
m
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?o
cid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
For at least a few years each pc-based King course cannot be used by more
than one person. Don't buy a used King course on eBay or anywhere else or
you might find you are stuck with an unusable product.
Their checkride courses are DVDs and so can obviously be loaned, sold, etc.
Not so with the knowledge courses.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 9:06 AM, tkreiner <tkreiner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Be careful using someone else's King Course, as the newer ones require that
> you log in each time to verify ownership...
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276994#276994
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
Mike,
Congratulations on the good press! Seems like a nice piece on your
project, and accurate on the Pietenpol parts (don't know about the
personal stuff, of course).
So, have you made all 1,000 wood parts (on each side!) exactly right? :)
Jeff
>Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my
>project today. It's fairly accurate, but it's always interesting to
>see what non-aviation minded reporters pick up on in their
>interviews (especially since they did the interview in September).
>
>The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to
>the online version of the article.
>
><http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.htm>http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.htm
>
>Mike Groah
>Tulare CA
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
Jeff
I think the approx. 1000 parts per wing side was a count my dad did that included
every part of the wing including gussets, nuts, bolts and wires. It seems
like there were nine hundred and some odd parts if you counted everything.
Mike
________________________________
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 7:43:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet Project
Re: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet
Project
Mike,
Congratulations on the good press! Seems like a nice piece on
your project, and accurate on the Pietenpol parts (don't know about
the personal stuff, of course).
So, have you made all 1,000 wood parts (on each side!) exactly
right? :)
Jeff
Well, my local weekly paper came out with
>an article about my project today. It's fairly accurate, but
>it's always interesting to see what non-aviation minded reporters pick
>up on in their interviews (especially since they did the interview in
>September).
>
>>The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to
>the online version of the article.
>
http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.htm
>
>>Mike Groah
Tulare CA
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 19
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| Subject: | Mike's father/son team Pietenpol building |
Great article Mike and it sounds like you and your Dad have had a great tim
e between the auto building/restorations
and now thru the Pietenpol project. You've experienced what many of us w
ould consider a dream relationship with
you and your Dad's endeavors. Great stuff.
Your project looks really good sitting out in the grass like that and ready
for covering, if you haven't already started on that.
Your shop area looks like a perfect place to build, cover, and make final t
ouches.
We should call you West Coast Pietenpol builders the Beach Boys or somethin
g like that no ? Beach Bums ? How about
Airport Bums. That is one we can all relate to or aspire too !
Don't mind me, I'm just jealous of your weather right now since we've alrea
dy hit our HIGH temperature of the day at 23 F.
Falling temps into the low teens tonight.
If you watch tonight's NFL Thursday Night Football game you'll see thousand
s of empty seats in Cleveland Browns Stadium
with the wind whipping around at 25 mph and temps hovering around 11 F.
You'll be glad you're one of the Beach Boys
even more after tuning that one in !
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: winter flying with an A65 |
H RULE wrote:
> Well we fly naked up here in Canada;-)
HAHAHA! I'm glad I just put my coffee down before reading that.
Thanks, Harvey.
Hm. Aren't you the one that suggested joining the Mile High Club in a
Pietenpol?
Jeff - when I ventured out in the frigid 40 degree temps back in
October, I was pretty comfortable in my downhill ski wear: hiking boots,
wool socks, thermal long johns, jeans, ski pants, thermal turtleneck,
wool sweater, ski parka, woollen ski hat, and lined leather gloves.
The only things I'll change if I go out this weekend will be the hat,
boots, eyewear, and gloves: hopefully my felt-lined Sorrel boots will
fit in the cockpit; I'll wear my rabbit fur hat that I picked up in the
Soviet Union back in '88; add ski goggles; and thick gloves.
The Fly Baby guys had a long discussion about "proper" open cockpit cold
weather wear a year or 2 ago on their Yahoo! mailing list (it's archived
if you're interested). There was lots of discussion about B-3 bomber
jackets and genuine silks scarves and stuff like that. I'm a bit more
pragmatic. If it keeps me warm, I'll wear it.
I wonder what the farmers around here would say about a Piet strafing
their fields at 5-10' agl...
do not archive
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
"...and 3 -year-old daughter Amelia."
Nice!
We gave our twin girl's middle names of aviation orgin: Sophie Piper and
Claire Taylor.
Cheers,
Dan
do not archive
Michael Groah wrote:
> Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project
> today. It's fairly accurate, but it's always interesting to see what
> non-aviation minded reporters pick up on in their interviews (especially
> since they did the interview in September).
>
> The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to the
> online version of the article.
>
> http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.htm
>
> Mike Groah
> Tulare CA
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mike's father/son team Pietenpol building |
Thank you for the kind words Mike. I really do cherish the relationship I
have with my dad and we enjoy working together on projects as well as spen
ding time together otherwise. =0A=0AWe havnt' started covering yet. We're
working on the engine installation and other details that take way more ti
me then you think they should. =0A=0AAs for us me, I live about 90 NM from
the beach as a Piet flies (about a 2.5 hr. drive in a car) Here it's suppo
sed to have a high of 50 low of 40 today and on Saturday 56/45. We're supp
osed to have a storm system come through and leave a little rain, which is
the reason for the rise in temperature as we go into the weekend. =0A=0AMik
e Groah=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D
. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>=0ATo: "p
ietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Thu, De
cember 10, 2009 8:50:21 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Mike's father/son tea
m Pietenpol building=0A=0ARe: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet Project
=0AGreat article Mike and it sounds like you and your Dad have had=0Aa grea
t time between the auto building/restorations=0Aand now thru the Pietenpol
project. You=99ve=0Aexperienced what many of us would consider a d
ream relationship with=0Ayou and your Dad=99s endeavors. Great=0Ast
uff. =0A =0AYour project looks really good sitting out in the grass like
=0Athat and ready for covering, if you haven=99t already started on t
hat. =0AYour shop area looks like a perfect place to build, cover, and=0Ama
ke final touches. =0A =0AWe should call you West Coast Pietenpol builder
s the Beach Boys=0Aor something like that no ? Beach Bums ? How about=0AA
irport Bums. That is one we can all relate to or aspire=0Atoo ! =0A =0A
Don=99t mind me, I=99m just jealous of your weather=0Aright now
since we=99ve already hit our HIGH temperature of the day at 23=0AF.
=0AFalling temps into the low teens tonight. =0A =0AIf you watch tonight
=99s NFL Thursday Night Football game=0Ayou=99ll see thousands
of empty seats in Cleveland Browns Stadium=0Awith the wind whipping around
at 25 mph and temps hovering=0Aaround 11 F. You=99ll be glad you
=99re one of=0Athe Beach Boys=0Aeven more after tuning that one in !
====0A=0A=0A
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
The problem with Amelia is every time she gets around the airplane, she
disappears for awhile.
PLEASE do not arhive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Dec 10, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> "...and 3 =BD-year-old daughter Amelia."
>
> Nice!
>
> We gave our twin girl's middle names of aviation orgin: Sophie Piper
and Claire Taylor.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> Michael Groah wrote:
>> Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project
today. It's fairly accurate, but it's always interesting to see what
non-aviation minded reporters pick up on in their interviews (especially
since they did the interview in September). The print article included a
few more pictures but here's a link to the online version of the
article.
http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.h
tm
>> Mike Groah
>> Tulare CA
>> *
>> *
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: winter flying with an A65 |
It would be advisable to put your coffee down when ever you read my responc
es,yes!-- LOL!!!=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A__________________________
______=0AFrom: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.co
m=0ASent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:19:24 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
ocum <yocum@fnal.gov>=0A=0A=0AH RULE wrote:=0A> Well we fly naked up here i
n Canada;-)=0A=0AHAHAHA!- I'm glad I just put my coffee down before readi
ng that. Thanks, Harvey.=0A=0AHm.- Aren't you the one that suggested join
======
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
Hi Mike,
Nice article on you, your dad Vic, and the Piet. It was actually written quite
well for a non-aviation type. I do have a question for you as well; where did
you get the parts or idea for the latch on the door? Charlie has that type of
latch as well on his Piet but I don't know where to get info on it. I have a rough
idea of how to do it but would appreciate more info.
Thanks Mike,
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Dec 10, 2009, Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project today. It's
fairly accurate, but it's always interesting to see what non-aviation minded
reporters pick up on in their interviews (especially since they did the interview
in September).
The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to the online
version of the article.
http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.htm
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
Message 26
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| Subject: | Sort off Topic....but maybe not! |
Hi!
Has anyone seen this You Tube Film of a Steam powered Travel Air 2000.
Another power unit to consider? Only Joking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6NFmcnW-8&feature=related
Regards
Gerry
Do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
WOW! I had no idea. I'm the grasshopper who flies 'em - I have no
idea what amount of work it takes to build 'em.
>Jeff
>I think the approx. 1000 parts per wing side was a count my dad did
>that included every part of the wing including gussets, nuts, bolts
>and wires. It seems like there were nine hundred and some odd
>parts if you counted everything.
>
>
>Mike
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at about the same time?
A La Commercial and IFR.
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>
> Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
>
>
> >NGB" <
> >
> >Dick, I would be interested in becoming a Light Sport Instructor
> >someday. I don't have Instrument or Commercial ratings. What would
> >you reccommend for a course of action? Do it in conjuction with
> >Instrument/commercial or not? Fastest or cheapest way to get it?
> >
> >I don't plan on making a living doing it, but would like to teach my
> >grandkids/get friends excited about flying.
> >
> >Blue Skies,
> >Steve D
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Semi-OT: An Owl in Slow Motion |
Obviously the FC10 airfoil. Note the very pronounced undercamber...
Do Not Archive!
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tail feathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277039#277039
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
Jim... on the door latch I had done something different but was never happy with
it and then I saw Charlie's Piet and copied his basic design. I'm sure someone
else could improve on my interpretation though. I'll do a quick drawing
of what I've done and email it out to you.
________________________________
From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net>
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 10:26:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet Project
Hi Mike,
Nice article on you, your dad Vic, and the Piet. It was actually written quite
well for a non-aviation type. I do have a question for you as well; where did
you get the parts or idea for the latch on the door? Charlie has that type of
latch as well on his Piet but I don't know where to get info on it. I have a rough
idea of how to do it but would appreciate more info.
Thanks Mike,
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Dec 10, 2009, Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project today. It's
fairly accurate, but it's always interesting to see what non-aviation minded
reporters pick up on in their interviews (especially since they did the interview
in September).
The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to the online
version of the article.
http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.htm
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Sort off Topic....but maybe not! |
seems like a good way to blow yourself up with a boiler.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277046#277046
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Is the commercial even required? in the scenario presented, teaching family and
friends to fly not for profit. Commercial is required to fly for pay, but would
one need to hold a comm. ticket to teach for free? These are not IFR planes
by and large so no IFR is req. so long as no ifr instruction or flight is conducted.
That leaves only the 250 hours in type and the written and practical tests.
Again assuming that it is to teach family and friends just to share the experience
of flight. Money does of course change everything, always does.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277047#277047
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
The-CPL and IFR materials are not about the same.- The-CPL is about s
tick and rudder skills and VFR cross country-planning and flying-(both
-day and-night).--The IFR is about the IFR system and aircraft cont
rol by reference to instruments.- =0A=0AI am not-current on what is req
uired to become a Sport Pilot Instructor-but to become-CFI the requirem
ents are Commercial and IFR.- If you look at the traditional path of PPL,
IFR, CPL, and ATP you will notice that the sequence is-basic VFR flight,
basic IFR flight, advanced VFR flight and-advanced IFR flight.=0A-=0AM
ike=0ACFI, CFII, MEI, ATP=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>=0ATo:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:19:20 PM=0AS
ubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List me
ssage posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.
mil>=0A=0ANO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at ab
out the same time? A La Commercial and IFR.=0A=0ASteve D=0A=0A----- Origina
l Message -----=0AFrom: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>=0ADate: Thursday
, December 10, 2009 9:06=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Cours
e=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A=0A=0A> --> Pietenpol-List message p
osted by: Jeff Boatright <=0A> =0A> Do SP instructors need an instrument ra
D MAJ NG NG =0A> >NGB" <=0A> >=0A> >Dick, I would be interested in becoming
a Light Sport Instructor =0A> >someday. I don't have Instrument or Commerc
ial ratings. What would =0A> >you reccommend for a course of action? Do it
in conjuction with =0A> >Instrument/commercial or not? Fastest or cheapest
way to get it?=0A> >=0A> >I don't plan on making a living doing it, but wou
ld like to teach my =0A> >grandkids/get friends excited about flying.=0A> >
============
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Per the EAA website, Commercial is not required to make money as a Sport Pilot
instructor! Though I understand most flight schools still want their SPIs to have
it.
Blue Skies,
Steven D.
----- Original Message -----
From: flea <jimgriggs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: King Training Course
>
> Is the commercial even required? in the scenario presented, teaching family and
friends to fly not for profit. Commercial is required
> to fly for pay, but would one need to hold a comm. ticket to teach
> for free? These are not IFR planes by and large so no IFR is req.
> so long as no ifr instruction or flight is conducted.
>
> That leaves only the 250 hours in type and the written and
> practical tests.
>
> Again assuming that it is to teach family and friends just to
> share the experience of flight. Money does of course change
> everything, always does.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277047#277047
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Sort off Topic....but maybe not! |
I think the steam concept kind of hit a wall with technology. However the Doble
steam car performed quite well! what alternative fuels would it open up for aviation?
Kerosene, Propane, or ?
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: flea <jimgriggs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sort off Topic....but maybe not!
>
> seems like a good way to blow yourself up with a boiler.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277046#277046
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
>>>Is the commercial even required? in the scenario presented, teaching
family and friends to fly not for profit. Commercial is required to fly for
pay, but would one need to hold a comm. ticket to teach for free?<<<
Of course you can teach without a CPL+CFI but the "student" can't log it as
dual time - they'll still need to get the x number of hours required for the
license they are seeking. 'Course, the free [quality ;-)] instruction you
give will probably reduce their need for "official" dual to the bare
minimum.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 2:04 PM, flea <jimgriggs@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Is the commercial even required? in the scenario presented, teaching family
> and friends to fly not for profit. Commercial is required to fly for pay,
> but would one need to hold a comm. ticket to teach for free? These are not
> IFR planes by and large so no IFR is req. so long as no ifr instruction or
> flight is conducted.
>
> That leaves only the 250 hours in type and the written and practical tests.
>
> Again assuming that it is to teach family and friends just to share the
> experience of flight. Money does of course change everything, always does.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277047#277047
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Straight from the EAA website on Sport Pilot:
To be a Sport Pilot Instructor you need 150 hours of flight time. In addition to
the flight time, you will need to train with a flight instructor on the knowledge
and flying skills needed to become an instructor. Once your instructor is
convinced you meet the FAA standard for sport pilot flight instructor, he or
she will endorse your logbook to take the following tests. Note that there is
no specified amount of training time required.
Knowledge Test (written) an aeronautical test based on the aircraft category in
which you wish to instruct.
Fundamentals of Instruction (FOI)- a general test regarding training and learning
theory
Practical Test (checkride). The test is a combination of demonstrating knowledge,
teaching skills, and piloting skills.
Upon successful completion of these tests, youll be a CFI for sport pilot!
Commercial is not required to become a sport instructor event if you are paid for
it.
What does an existing CFI (under subpart H) need to do to instruct sport pilot
students?
Simply stated, a current CFI may train sport pilot candidates, within the category/class
listed on the CFI's certificate, without showing further proficiency.
Obviously, you will need to become familiar with the sport pilot rules under
61 subpart J. EAA has a 19 page PDF file of the rule you can download or view.
Back to me.
I have been told that it is possible to be a CFI without the IFR rating, but almost
noone does it. It simply does not make sense for most people. But then you
are only a CFI and not a CFII!.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
> TheCPL and IFR materials are not about the same. TheCPL is
> about stick and rudder skills and VFR cross countryplanning and
> flying(bothday andnight).The IFR is about the IFR system and
> aircraft control by reference to instruments.
>
> I am notcurrent on what is required to become a Sport Pilot
> Instructorbut to becomeCFI the requirements are Commercial and
> IFR. If you look at the traditional path of PPL, IFR, CPL, and
> ATP you will notice that the sequence isbasic VFR flight, basic
> IFR flight, advanced VFR flight andadvanced IFR flight.
>
> Mike
> CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:19:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>
>
> NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at about the same
time? A La Commercial and IFR.
>
> Steve D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Boatright <
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:06
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> > Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
> >
> >
> > >NGB" <> >
> > >Dick, I would be interested in becoming a Light Sport Instructor
> > >someday. I don't have Instrument or Commercial ratings. What would
> > >you reccommend for a course of action? Do it in conjuction with
> > >Instrument/commercial or not? Fastest or cheapest way to get it?
> > >
> > >I don't plan on making a living doing it, but would like to teach my
> > >grandkids/get friends excited about flying.
> > >============
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
I'm just asking because I didn't know the answer. If SP instructors
don't need to be IFR rated, then I would think that would cut way
down on the money, time, and equipment needed to obtain the training
and instructor rating. That in turn may lead to more SP instructors
being available, which I think would be a good thing for the our
avocation in general. :)
>NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
>NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at about
>the same time? A La Commercial and IFR.
>
>Steve D
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:06
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>>
>> Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
> >
>>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
I guess, but I think it's unwise to obtain a PP or SP license without at
least a few hours of actual IFR. Just my opinion, of course. I guess a SP
candidate could get that from a CFI, though.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> wrote:
>
> I'm just asking because I didn't know the answer. If SP instructors don't
> need to be IFR rated, then I would think that would cut way down on the
> money, time, and equipment needed to obtain the training and instructor
> rating. That in turn may lead to more SP instructors being available, which
> I think would be a good thing for the our avocation in general. :)
>
>
>> steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>>
>> NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at about the
>> same time? A La Commercial and IFR.
>>
>> Steve D
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:06
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
>>>
>> >
>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Sort off Topic....but maybe not! |
Nuclear?
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <
steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote:
> steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> I think the steam concept kind of hit a wall with technology. However the
> Doble steam car performed quite well! what alternative fuels would it open
> up for aviation? Kerosene, Propane, or ?
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: flea <jimgriggs@yahoo.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 14:07
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sort off Topic....but maybe not!
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> >
> > seems like a good way to blow yourself up with a boiler.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277046#277046
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Excellent - thanks for looking it up. I was on my way there when I
got your email.
>NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
>Straight from the EAA website on Sport Pilot:
>
>To be a Sport Pilot Instructor you need 150 hours of flight time. In
>addition to the flight time, you will need to train with a flight
>instructor on the knowledge and flying skills needed to become an
>instructor. Once your instructor is convinced you meet the FAA
>standard for sport pilot flight instructor, he or she will endorse
>your logbook to take the following tests. Note that there is no
>specified amount of training time required.
>
>* Knowledge Test ("written")- an aeronautical test based on the
>aircraft category in which you wish to instruct.
>
>* Fundamentals of Instruction ("FOI")- a general test regarding
>training and learning theory
>
>* Practical Test ("checkride"). The test is a combination of
>demonstrating knowledge, teaching skills, and piloting skills.
>
>Upon successful completion of these tests, you'll be a CFI for sport pilot!
>
>Commercial is not required to become a sport instructor event if you
>are paid for it.
>
>
>What does an existing CFI (under subpart H) need to do to instruct
>sport pilot students?
>
>Simply stated, a current CFI may train sport pilot candidates,
>within the category/class listed on the CFI's certificate, without
>showing further proficiency. Obviously, you will need to become
>familiar with the sport pilot rules under 61 subpart J. EAA has a 19
>page PDF file of the rule you can download or view.
>
>
>Back to me.
>I have been told that it is possible to be a CFI without the IFR
>rating, but almost noone does it. It simply does not make sense for
>most people. But then you are only a CFI and not a CFII!.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi@yahoo.com>
>Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 14:18
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>> The CPL and IFR materials are not about the same. The CPL is
>> about stick and rudder skills and VFR cross country planning and
>> flying (both day and night). The IFR is about the IFR system and
>> aircraft control by reference to instruments.
>>
>> I am not current on what is required to become a Sport Pilot
>> Instructor but to become CFI the requirements are Commercial and
>> IFR. If you look at the traditional path of PPL, IFR, CPL, and
>> ATP you will notice that the sequence is basic VFR flight, basic
>> IFR flight, advanced VFR flight and advanced IFR flight.
>>
>> Mike
>> CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:19:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>>
>>
>> NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at
>>about the same time? A La Commercial and IFR.
>>
>> Steve D
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeff Boatright <
>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:06
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>
>>
>> > Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
>> >
>> >
>> > >NGB" <> >
>> > >Dick, I would be interested in becoming a Light Sport Instructor
>> > >someday. I don't have Instrument or Commercial ratings. What would
>> > >you reccommend for a course of action? Do it in conjuction with
>> > >Instrument/commercial or not? Fastest or cheapest way to get it?
>> > >
>> > >I don't plan on making a living doing it, but would like to teach my
>> > >grandkids/get friends excited about flying.
>> > >============
>
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Now this I like. 50 more hours, and I think I'll become an Light
Sport instructor!
How exciting!
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Dec 10, 2009, at 3:31 PM, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil
> wrote:
> NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> Straight from the EAA website on Sport Pilot:
>
> To be a Sport Pilot Instructor you need 150 hours of flight time. In
> addition to the flight time, you will need to train with a flight
> instructor on the knowledge and flying skills needed to become an
> instructor. Once your instructor is convinced you meet the FAA
> standard for sport pilot flight instructor, he or she will endorse
> your logbook to take the following tests. Note that there is no
> specified amount of training time required.
>
> Knowledge Test (written) an aeronautical test based on
> the aircraft category in which you wish to instruct.
>
> Fundamentals of Instruction (FOI)- a general test regarding
> training and learning theory
>
> Practical Test (checkride). The test is a combination of
> demonstrating knowledge, teaching skills, and piloting skills.
>
> Upon successful completion of these tests, youll be a CFI for sport
> pilot!
>
> Commercial is not required to become a sport instructor event if you
> are paid for it.
>
>
> What does an existing CFI (under subpart H) need to do to instruct
> sport pilot students?
>
> Simply stated, a current CFI may train sport pilot candidates,
> within the category/class listed on the CFI's certificate, without
> showing further proficiency. Obviously, you will need to become
> familiar with the sport pilot rules under 61 subpart J. EAA has a 19
> page PDF file of the rule you can download or view.
>
>
> Back to me.
> I have been told that it is possible to be a CFI without the IFR
> rating, but almost noone does it. It simply does not make sense for
> most people. But then you are only a CFI and not a CFII!.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi@yahoo.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 14:18
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>> The CPL and IFR materials are not about the same. The CPL is
>> about stick and rudder skills and VFR cross country planning and
>> flying (both day and night). The IFR is about the IFR system and
>> aircraft control by reference to instruments.
>>
>> I am not current on what is required to become a Sport Pilot
>> Instructor but to become CFI the requirements are Commercial and
>> IFR. If you look at the traditional path of PPL, IFR, CPL, and
>> ATP you will notice that the sequence is basic VFR flight, basic
>> IFR flight, advanced VFR flight and advanced IFR flight.
>>
>> Mike
>> CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:19:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>>
>> NGB" <
>>
>> NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at
>> about the same time? A La Commercial and IFR.
>>
>> Steve D
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jeff Boatright <
>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:06
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>
>>
>>> Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
>>>
>>>
>>>> NGB" <> >
>>>> Dick, I would be interested in becoming a Light Sport Instructor
>>>> someday. I don't have Instrument or Commercial ratings. What would
>>>> you reccommend for a course of action? Do it in conjuction with
>>>> Instrument/commercial or not? Fastest or cheapest way to get it?
>>>>
>>>> I don't plan on making a living doing it, but would like to teach
>>>> my
>>>> grandkids/get friends excited about flying.
>>>> ============
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
It'd be hilarious if a significant proportion of new SPs got their
training in Pietenpols. We might set the world back 80 years!
><wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
>Now this I like. 50 more hours, and I think I'll become an Light
>Sport instructor!
>
>How exciting!
>
>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>Taildraggers, Inc.
>taildraggersinc.com
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Why?? SP can't fly IFR and most planes they fly don't have the
instruments. I think it would be better to teach SP's to stay out of
IFR conditions. Unless you have the instruments and you practice,
practice and more practice, you need to keep your head out of dark
places and stay out of IFR conditions. A couple of hours of IFR
training will get you killed. If you don't believe me, check out the
NTSB monthly accident site.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Redmond
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
I guess, but I think it's unwise to obtain a PP or SP license without
at least a few hours of actual IFR. Just my opinion, of course. I
guess a SP candidate could get that from a CFI, though.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
wrote:
<jboatri@emory.edu>
I'm just asking because I didn't know the answer. If SP instructors
don't need to be IFR rated, then I would think that would cut way down
on the money, time, and equipment needed to obtain the training and
instructor rating. That in turn may lead to more SP instructors being
available, which I think would be a good thing for the our avocation in
general. :)
NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at
about the same time? A La Commercial and IFR.
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:06
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
ber is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
http:/r generous support!
Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
=============
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/10/09 07:36:00
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: winter flying with an A65 |
Dick,
Dick Navratil wrote:
> <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> Blocking the eyebrow baffles is not a good idea. The cyl heads still
I wasn't planning on fully blocking the air inlet on the baffle, just
enough to raise the oil temp to around 130-140F. Here's the entry on
Harry's page of collective wisdom that I was referring to:
http://bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#winter
> need to get air.. I was out flying over NW Wisc last Sat at 24 deg at
> takeoff . All I use is a kit from Wag Aero that covers the oil tank and
> intake tubes. Current price is $50.
I must be a dolt because I can't find it on their web site - do you
happen to have the link handy or is it in their print catalog?
> We had an EAA Chapt meeting last year with a the owner of a major engine
> rebuild shop talking about winter storage prep. His best
> recommendations were;
> 1. If storing the engine for the winter, change oil and start up and
> bring to operating temp. Then shut down and it will be fine. Do not
> heat engine or turn over prop after that.
> 2. Before starting engine in cold temps pre heat engine. Depending on
> temp you can use a trouble light with 100 watt bulb for a couple of
> hours or electric heater, but don't cycle on and off if you aren't going
> to be starting the engine.
> 3. Allow plenty of running warm up time before flying and operate
> throttle slowley. Rapid throttle can cause engine to stall.
> I like to fly in winter, air is generally smooth and the aren't any
> bugs. Also we have lots of frozen lakes that make safe landing spots
> when cruising at 5 10 ft agl.
Sounds like fun!
While working on my private ticket at Lake Elmo, my first soft field
work was at the Osceola Muni airport just north of, and over the river
from, Marine on St. Croix.
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
That's the next question...
What aircraft can you legally instruct in and rent? Man, I gotta do
more research into this!
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Dec 10, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> wrote:
> >
>
> It'd be hilarious if a significant proportion of new SPs got their
> training in Pietenpols. We might set the world back 80 years!
>
>
>> >
>>
>> Now this I like. 50 more hours, and I think I'll become an Light
>> Sport instructor!
>>
>> How exciting!
>>
>> Wayne Bressler Jr.
>> Taildraggers, Inc.
>> taildraggersinc.com
>
> --
> ---
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | winter flying with an A65 |
I bought a Cessna 140 from canada.....
winter kit... had a shield around the sump so the air
comming in the front of the plane did not cool it much.
THAT IS ALL................. Do not block baffles.....
just fyi
do not archive
Dave A.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: winter flying with an A65
Dick,
Dick Navratil wrote:
> <horzpool@goldengate.net>
>
> Blocking the eyebrow baffles is not a good idea. The cyl heads still
I wasn't planning on fully blocking the air inlet on the baffle, just
enough to raise the oil temp to around 130-140F. Here's the entry on
Harry's page of collective wisdom that I was referring to:
http://bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#winter
> need to get air.. I was out flying over NW Wisc last Sat at 24 deg at
> takeoff . All I use is a kit from Wag Aero that covers the oil tank and
> intake tubes. Current price is $50.
I must be a dolt because I can't find it on their web site - do you
happen to have the link handy or is it in their print catalog?
> We had an EAA Chapt meeting last year with a the owner of a major engine
> rebuild shop talking about winter storage prep. His best
> recommendations were;
> 1. If storing the engine for the winter, change oil and start up and
> bring to operating temp. Then shut down and it will be fine. Do not
> heat engine or turn over prop after that.
> 2. Before starting engine in cold temps pre heat engine. Depending on
> temp you can use a trouble light with 100 watt bulb for a couple of
> hours or electric heater, but don't cycle on and off if you aren't going
> to be starting the engine.
> 3. Allow plenty of running warm up time before flying and operate
> throttle slowley. Rapid throttle can cause engine to stall.
> I like to fly in winter, air is generally smooth and the aren't any
> bugs. Also we have lots of frozen lakes that make safe landing spots
> when cruising at 5 10 ft agl.
Sounds like fun!
While working on my private ticket at Lake Elmo, my first soft field
work was at the Osceola Muni airport just north of, and over the river
from, Marine on St. Croix.
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Joe Norris at EAA is an excellent resource for this. He's at jnorris@eaa.org
><wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
>That's the next question...
>
>What aircraft can you legally instruct in and rent? Man, I gotta do
>more research into this!
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
http://www.sportpilot.org/instructors/about.html
Look at the link above. It is pretty good.
I think a CFI may be able to teach in a certified aircraft to a certain point.
After that it must be LSA. I think you could do a lot of learning in a Cessna
150 but before solo you would have to switch to an LSA. (I Think, Therfore I am,
I think.)
If the plane is a certified LSA (and I THINK that includes some homebuilts that
were registered as LSAs)
then you can rent the plane for instruction. IF the plane is an ELSA, then you
cannot rent it. BUT you can charge for your time as an instructor. If a student
owns or is loaned the plane (Yes, even a homebuilt) then you can charge them
for instruction.
While you can share certain costs of flying. IE both of us fly to a camp in fly-in
in my plane, you can legally pay for half of the costs (Fuel, oil, tiedown
and so on). I am not sure how it would be if We shared expenses in my plane while
you paid me for instruction. Or what if we shared expenses and I taught you
for free? anyone know.
Just talking, If I could find a one week course where I could get my LSI I would
jump at it.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>
> That's the next question...
>
> What aircraft can you legally instruct in and rent? Man, I gotta do
> more research into this!
>
> Wayne Bressler Jr.
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> taildraggersinc.com
>
> Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
>
> On Dec 10, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Jeff Boatright < wrote:
>
> >
> > It'd be hilarious if a significant proportion of new SPs got their
> > training in Pietenpols. We might set the world back 80 years!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Now this I like. 50 more hours, and I think I'll become an Light
> >> Sport instructor!
> >>
> >> How exciting!
> >>
> >> Wayne Bressler Jr.
> >> Taildraggers, Inc.
> >> taildraggersinc.com
> >
> > --
> > ---
> >
> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> > Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> > Emory University School of Medicine
> > Editor-in-Chief
> > Molecular Vision
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: winter flying with an A65 |
Dan, for what's it worth, I use duct tape to close off a portion of my
eyebrows in cold weather. White eyebrows, white duct tape and no one
notices. I would be very suprised if you get your temps up to around 140
when it's below freezing. I see 110 to 115. If you do get the higher
temps, please share how you do it with me.
Gene in Beautiful sunny Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum@fnal.gov>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: winter flying with an A65
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
>>>Why?? SP can't fly IFR and most planes they fly don't have the
instruments. I think it would be better to teach SP's to stay out of IFR
conditions. Unless you have the instruments and you practice, practice and
more practice, you need to keep your head out of dark places and stay out of
IFR conditions. A couple of hours of IFR training will get you killed. If
you don't believe me, check out the NTSB monthly accident site.<<<
Gene,
Teaching pilots to stay out of IFR conditions is precisely what happens
now: that's the cause of the NTSB accident rate.
I agree that a few hours of IFR training won't make someone remotely able to
fly in those conditions - and that's not why I think it should be done. I
think it should be done to (a) scare the bejeezus out of students by
demonstrating how wonky things can get (i.e., deliberately induce spatial
disorientation in the student as a demonstration) and (b) teach students how
to make a 180 degree turn using nothing but rudder pedals and elevator trim
(i.e., hands completely off the stick). Not enough training to make a
student think they can handle deliberate IFR.
AFAIK, this is what Bob Miller advocates and I don't disagree with it. He
comes across a bit harshly for some but almost everything he says makes
perfect sense.
Just my 0.02
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net
> wrote:
> Why?? SP can't fly IFR and most planes they fly don't have the
> instruments. I think it would be better to teach SP's to stay out of IFR
> conditions. Unless you have the instruments and you practice, practice and
> more practice, you need to keep your head out of dark places and stay out of
> IFR conditions. A couple of hours of IFR training will get you killed. If
> you don't believe me, check out the NTSB monthly accident site.
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2009 3:36 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>
> I guess, but I think it's unwise to obtain a PP or SP license without at
> least a few hours of actual IFR. Just my opinion, of course. I guess a SP
> candidate could get that from a CFI, though.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm just asking because I didn't know the answer. If SP instructors don't
>> need to be IFR rated, then I would think that would cut way down on the
>> money, time, and equipment needed to obtain the training and instructor
>> rating. That in turn may lead to more SP instructors being available, which
>> I think would be a good thing for the our avocation in general. :)
>>
>>
>>
>>> steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>>>
>>> NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at about
>>> the same time? A La Commercial and IFR.
>>>
>>> Steve D
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
>>> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:06
>>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
>>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jeff Boatright
>> "Now let's think about this..."
>> ber is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
>> -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
>> omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
>> http:/r generous support!
>>
>> Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
>> s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> =============
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> ------------------------------
> - Release Date: 12/10/09 07:36:00
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Remember, part of the idea of SP was to return to what a PPL was in the 1950s.
Since 1950 they have added quite a bit to learn for the PPL increasing it substantially.
Airspace, Communication, Navigation systems, (NOW SECURITY FOR THE
TSI) and IFR.
All a bit much for a guy who wants to take his pietenpol out for a one hour spin
or maybe a XC in good weather. If he wants to play with IFR then he needs to
get an IFR ticket.
Granted there are some of the newer LSAs that would be pretty good IFR platforms
(GIven no ice or significant turbulance).
SP has done what the Recreational (A useless ticket.) was meant to do but failed.
It opens light aviation up for fun flyers. If you want to go further, then
it is a great starting block.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
> Why?? SP can't fly IFR and most planes they fly don't have the
> instruments. I think it would be better to teach SP's to stay out
> of IFR conditions. Unless you have the instruments and you
> practice, practice and more practice, you need to keep your head
> out of dark places and stay out of IFR conditions. A couple of
> hours of IFR training will get you killed. If you don't believe
> me, check out the NTSB monthly accident site.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Matt Redmond
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
>
>
> I guess, but I think it's unwise to obtain a PP or SP license
> without at least a few hours of actual IFR. Just my opinion, of
> course. I guess a SP candidate could get that from a CFI, though.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Jeff Boatright < wrote:
>
>
> I'm just asking because I didn't know the answer. If SP instructors don't
need to be IFR rated, then I would think that would cut way down on the money,
time, and equipment needed to obtain the training and instructor rating. That
in turn may lead to more SP instructors being available, which I think would
be a good thing for the our avocation in general. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> NO, But if the materiel is about the same, why not get both at about the
same time? A La Commercial and IFR.
>
> Steve D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jeff Boatright <
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:06
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: King Training Course
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Do SP instructors need an instrument rating?
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
> ber is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
> -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
> omebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
> http:/r generous support!
> Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
> s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> =============
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 12/10/09 07:36:00
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Semi-OT: An Owl in Slow Motion |
I think I can improve the owl airfoil and landing gear.
Message 54
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| Subject: | Article on my Piet Project |
Congratulations, Mike!!...a well-deserved write-up!...keeping in mind that
the big news in last week's edition was the harvester that clipped the
mailbox..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Groah
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet Project
Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project today.
It's fairly accurate, but it's always interesting to see what non-aviation
minded reporters pick up on in their interviews (especially since they did
the interview in September).
The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to the
online version of the article.
http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.htm
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
I use the blue card approach that I learned reading something Gordon
Baxter wrote. I have a blue card with a hole in the middle that I
keep in my wallet. When I get to the airport, I take the card out,
hold it up to the sky and look through the hole. If the sky is the
same color as the card, I go flying. If not, I tinker. I occasionally
modify this, as I did today, when the sky was card-colored, but
trees, cats, and other objects that don't normally fly were whizzying
by in the wind. I skip flying those days, too.
Hope this helps! :)
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
In a Pietenpol????
David Paule
> .... If he wants to play with IFR....
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: King Training Course |
Elevator trim?? What's elevator trim? Who's got elevator trim? Boy,
these modern planes have everything.
The reasons you give make sense, but they don't work. Every pilot that
gets his private goes thru the limited IFR training and a bunch still
fly into IFR conditions and kill themselves. Then what's the answer? I
don't have the foggiest. They don't have a test for common sense.
Gene
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Semi-OT: An Owl in Slow Motion |
We can get Lowell to test fly it!
>I think I can improve the owl airfoil and landing gear.
>
>
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
UNBELIEVABLY COLD SHOT
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet Project
Congratulations, Mike!!...a well-deserved write-up!...keeping in mind
that the big news in last week's edition was the harvester that clipped
the mailbox..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Groah
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:20 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet Project
Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project
today. It's fairly accurate, but it's always interesting to see what
non-aviation minded reporters pick up on in their interviews (especially
since they did the interview in September).
The print article included a few more pictures but here's a link to
the online version of the article.
http://www.valleyvoicenewspaper.com/tv/stories/2009/tv_planeproject_0328.
htm
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
www.aeroelectric.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contrib
ution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12/10/09 07:36:00
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
Thanks Mike, I appreciate the help. A drawing of how you did it will be great.
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Dec 10, 2009, Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jim... on the door latch I had done something different but was never happy with
it and then I saw Charlie's Piet and copied his basic design. I'm sure someone
else could improve on my interpretation though. I'll do a quick drawing
of what I've done and email it out to you.
From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net>
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 10:26:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Article on my Piet Project
Hi Mike,
Nice article on you, your dad Vic, and the Piet. It was actually written quite
well for a non-aviation type. I do have a question for you as well; where did
you get the parts or idea for the latch on the door? Charlie has that type of
latch as well on his Piet but I don't know where to get info on it. I have a rough
idea of how to do it but would appreciate more info.
Thanks Mike,
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Dec 10, 2009, Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, my local weekly paper came out with an article about my project today. It's
fairly accurate,
Message 61
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After soaking=2C boiling=2C and steaming the upper and lower pieces for the
ribs=2C when I preform them in the jig I can feel some of the wood fibers
breaking in the acute bend. I am using kiln dried ponderosa pine. I am m
aking them 1/4 inch by 3/4 inch to make up for the 15% loss in strength com
pared to spruce. The breaking fibers bother me. Any thoughts appreciate
d. Big Steve
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Try steaming them, not soaking or boiling.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: stephen labash
To: Pietenpol matronics ; slabash@hotmail.com
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs
After soaking, boiling, and steaming the upper and lower pieces for
the ribs, when I preform them in the jig I can feel some of the wood
fibers breaking in the acute bend. I am using kiln dried ponderosa
pine. I am making them 1/4 inch by 3/4 inch to make up for the 15% loss
in strength compared to spruce. The breaking fibers bother me. Any
thoughts appreciated. Big Steve
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Message 63
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Try using spruce.
(I'm sorry, I'm sorry...I just couldn't resist) :P
do not archive
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 7:52 PM, David Paule <dpaule@frii.com> wrote:
> Try steaming them, not soaking or boiling.
>
> David Paule
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* stephen labash <slabash@hotmail.com>
> *To:* Pietenpol matronics <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> ;
> slabash@hotmail.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2009 6:48 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: ribs
>
> After soaking, boiling, and steaming the upper and lower pieces for the
> ribs, when I preform them in the jig I can feel some of the wood fibers
> breaking in the acute bend. I am using kiln dried ponderosa pine. I am
> making them 1/4 inch by 3/4 inch to make up for the 15% loss in strength
> compared to spruce. The breaking fibers bother me. Any thoughts
> appreciated. Big Steve
> ------------------------------
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. Check it out<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
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> *
>
> *
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>
Message 64
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Big Steve,
Mine are only =BC x =BD, and Poplar, but I am just soaking in cold water
for a
day or two (a piece of PVC pipe with one end plugged). Only the upper
pieces
are getting soaked as the lower ones take shape just fine. So far,
I=92ve only
had one piece break=85probably a weakness in the grain.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down=85)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stephen
labash
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 5:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs
After soaking, boiling, and steaming the upper and lower pieces for the
ribs, when I preform them in the jig I can feel some of the wood fibers
breaking in the acute bend. I am using kiln dried ponderosa pine. I
am
making them 1/4 inch by 3/4 inch to make up for the 15% loss in strength
compared to spruce. The breaking fibers bother me. Any thoughts
appreciated. Big Steve
_____
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. Check it out
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.asp
x?o
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If there is only a 15% difference in strength why are you making them 50% l
arger / heavier??? Piet ribs are overbuilt anyway. My guess is 1/4 X 1/2 wo
uld be fine and 1/4 X 9/16ths would be way plenty. I made my root ribs 1/4
X 3/4 as per a recomendation from Chad Willey of St. Croix aircraft and the
y are bullet proof. I can't imagine doing them all that way. The extra wood
may be the reason you're having trouble bending them. Just my two cents of
course=2C You did ask for any thoughts.... Ed Grentzer
From: slabash@hotmail.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ribs
After soaking=2C boiling=2C and steaming the upper and lower pieces for the
ribs=2C when I preform them in the jig I can feel some of the wood fibers
breaking in the acute bend. I am using kiln dried ponderosa pine. I am m
aking them 1/4 inch by 3/4 inch to make up for the 15% loss in strength com
pared to spruce. The breaking fibers bother me. Any thoughts appreciate
d. Big Steve
Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. Check it out
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Message 66
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I am using poplar and just soak them in hot water for a couple of
hours. A real high tech soaking rig - 2 liter soda bottle. I can get
two sticks in at a time.
How are you bending them? I made a jig out of 2x4 that clamps the top
and bottom of the capstrip into slightly more of a curve than the rib
until it dries. If you are just sticking soaked or steamed strips in
your rib jig you are probably putting a lot of pressure on a few points.
Also - if you are steaming be sure that you do not oversteam. It will
make the wood brittle. I would guess maybe 10-15 minutes max for a cap
strip.
Dave
stephen labash wrote:
> After soaking, boiling, and steaming the upper and lower pieces for
> the ribs, when I preform them in the jig I can feel some of the wood
> fibers breaking in the acute bend. I am using kiln dried ponderosa
> pine. I am making them 1/4 inch by 3/4 inch to make up for the 15%
> loss in strength compared to spruce. The breaking fibers bother
> me. Any thoughts appreciated. Big Steve
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. Check it out
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009>
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Good point about the time of steaming. The shorter the steaming time the
better. With lots of steam, two to four minutes might even do it.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave and Connie" <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs
> <dmatt@frontiernet.net>
>
> I am using poplar and just soak them in hot water for a couple of hours.
> A real high tech soaking rig - 2 liter soda bottle. I can get two sticks
> in at a time.
> How are you bending them? I made a jig out of 2x4 that clamps the top and
> bottom of the capstrip into slightly more of a curve than the rib until it
> dries. If you are just sticking soaked or steamed strips in your rib jig
> you are probably putting a lot of pressure on a few points.
>
> Also - if you are steaming be sure that you do not oversteam. It will
> make the wood brittle. I would guess maybe 10-15 minutes max for a cap
> strip.
>
> Dave
>
>
> stephen labash wrote:
>> After soaking, boiling, and steaming the upper and lower pieces for the
>> ribs, when I preform them in the jig I can feel some of the wood fibers
>> breaking in the acute bend. I am using kiln dried ponderosa pine. I am
>> making them 1/4 inch by 3/4 inch to make up for the 15% loss in strength
>> compared to spruce. The breaking fibers bother me. Any thoughts
>> appreciated. Big Steve
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. Check it out
>> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Article on my Piet Project |
Now thats the engine you use on a Pietenpol!- You can use a 65 cont, but
then you have to leave an hour before everyone else.- 80-85 no problem, 5
GPH, and for God's sake do NOT forget your earplugs!
-
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