---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/14/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:16 AM - Re: ribs (Bill Church) 2. 08:54 AM - Re: rides and non riders cars and airplanes (amsafetyc@aol.com) 3. 09:01 AM - Re: rides and non riders cars and airplanes (Tim Willis) 4. 09:01 AM - Re: rides and non riders cars and airplanes (Rick Holland) 5. 10:06 AM - Re: rides and non riders cars and airplanes (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 6. 01:23 PM - Flying Farmer routine (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 01:43 PM - Re: Flying Farmer routine (Wayne Bressler) 8. 01:54 PM - Re: rides and non riders cars and airplanes (Rick Holland) 9. 03:44 PM - Re: Flying Farmer routine (Gene Rambo) 10. 04:15 PM - Re: Flying Farmer routine (Wayne Bressler) 11. 04:28 PM - Re: Flying Farmer routine (Gene Rambo) 12. 04:47 PM - Re: Flying Farmer routine (Wayne Bressler) 13. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: ribs (Robert Ray) 14. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: ribs (Dave and Connie) 15. 07:19 PM - T-88 (Pieti Lowell) 16. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: ribs (David Paule) 17. 07:37 PM - Re: T-88 (David Paule) 18. 07:40 PM - Re: ribs (Pieti Lowell) 19. 08:05 PM - Re: rides and non riders cars and airplanes (Clif Dawson) 20. 11:25 PM - Re: Re: ribs (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ribs From: "Bill Church" Hunh? I've never heard of wood getting brittle by steaming too long. The theory behind steaming is that the elevated temperature and humidity breaks down the lignin, which is basically the glue that holds the wood fibers together. When the lignin gets heated, it allows the wood fibers to slide a bit, which results in a more flexible piece of wood. The good thing is that when the wood returns to "normal" temperatures, the lignin re-sets, and the wood structure becomes more rigid once again. As long as the wood is held in a new shape during the cooling process, the wood will retain a new shape when cooled, and also retain the strength. Heating the wood without the added moisture that the steam provides may result in increased brittle-ness, since the added heat would also likely dry the wood even further than the beginning state. Soaking wood in water also softens up the wood a bit, which allows the wood to bend a bit more easily, but it will take longer to dry, and won't permit the same degree of "bendability". I steamed my Sitka capstrips for about 15-20 minutes, and never had any of them even think about snapping. Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Paule Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs Good point about the time of steaming. The shorter the steaming time the better. With lots of steam, two to four minutes might even do it. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave and Connie" Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs > > > I am using poplar and just soak them in hot water for a couple of hours. > A real high tech soaking rig - 2 liter soda bottle. I can get two > sticks in at a time. > How are you bending them? I made a jig out of 2x4 that clamps the top > and bottom of the capstrip into slightly more of a curve than the rib > until it dries. If you are just sticking soaked or steamed strips in > your rib jig you are probably putting a lot of pressure on a few points. > > Also - if you are steaming be sure that you do not oversteam. It will > make the wood brittle. I would guess maybe 10-15 minutes max for a > cap strip. > > Dave > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277486#277486 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:32 AM PST US From: amsafetyc@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rides and non riders cars and airplanes While in discussion with a buddy of mine about the Piet and its progress his lovely spouse and friend chimed in, " you'll never get me in that thing" my reply was equally short and pointed " who said you were invited?" end of conversation. Some how people just assume that they will be offered a ride and want to make certain that all faith in the builder, design and construction confusion about the safety of the craft is un mistakenly, highly known and publicly pronounced. The thing that most amazes me is that if you suggested that you had a hand made custom automobile, people would stand in line to see it and hope to be offered a ride. You do the same with an airplane except that it has an experimental classification and people run for the hills. Would that be the same if you had an Experimental Bougatti,Rolls Royce, Farrari, Lamborgini, Lotus or fiber body Shelby Mustang? John In a message dated 12/7/2009 3:37:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, timothywillis@earthlink.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Tim Willis m, We must keep our wives apart-- My wife says about the Piet, "Neither Wilbur nor Orville would get in that thing." BTW, I am sure that neither will she. As I told Chuck Gantzer, however, "The passenger door allows [tall] Nicole Kidman to enter gracefully." Tim in central TX do not archive/tell my wife ;) -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Dec 7, 2009 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tim: Funny you should mention that as it's the same thing my wife said about building my own airplane. Besides, there's no way to make the weight and balance work out with a 400# JATO bottle. Stinemetze ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:33 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rides and non riders cars and airplanes I like your thinking. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: amsafetyc@aol.com Sent: Dec 14, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rides and non riders cars and airplanes While in discussion with a buddy of mine about the Piet and its progress his lovely spouse and friend chimed in, " you'll never get me in that thing" my reply was equally short and pointed " who said you were invited?" end of conversation. Some how people just assume that they will be offered a ride and want to make certain that all faith in the builder, design and construction confusion about the safety of the craft is un mistakenly, highly known and publicly pronounced. The thing that most amazes me is that if you suggested that you had a hand made custom automobile, people would stand in line to see it and hope to be offered a ride. You do the same with an airplane except that it has an experimental classification and people run for the hills. Would that be the same if you had an Experimental Bougatti,Rolls Royce, Farrari, Lamborgini, Lotus or fiber body Shelby Mustang? John ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rides and non riders cars and airplanes From: Rick Holland Probably because the fall out of an experimental car is much lets than from an experimental airplane. rh On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 AM, wrote: > While in discussion with a buddy of mine about the Piet and its progress > his lovely spouse and friend chimed in, " you'll never get me in that thing" > my reply was equally short and pointed " who said you were invited?" end of > conversation. Some how people just assume that they will be offered a ride > and want to make certain that all faith in the builder, design and > construction confusion about the safety of the craft is un mistakenly, > highly known and publicly pronounced. > > The thing that most amazes me is that if you suggested that you had a hand > made custom automobile, people would stand in line to see it and hope to be > offered a ride. You do the same with an airplane except that it has an > experimental classification and people run for the hills. > > Would that be the same if you had an Experimental Bougatti,Rolls Royce, > Farrari, Lamborgini, Lotus or fiber body Shelby Mustang? > > John > > In a message dated 12/7/2009 3:37:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > timothywillis@earthlink.net writes: > > timothywillis@earthlink.net> > > m, > We must keep our wives apart-- > My wife says about the Piet, "Neither Wilbur nor Orville would get in that > thing." > > BTW, I am sure that neither will she. > > As I told Chuck Gantzer, however, "The passenger door allows [tall] Nicole > Kidman to enter gracefully." > Tim in central TX > do not archive/tell my wife ;) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TOM STINEMETZE > Sent: Dec 7, 2009 2:48 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo > > Tim: > > Funny you should mention that as it's the same thing my wife said about > building my own airplane. Besides, there's no way to make the weight and > balance work out with a 400# JATO > ================================================nbsp; (And Get Some > AWESOME FREE to find Gifts tric re b k you for p; -Matt > Dralle, List ======================== Use the ties Day > ================================================= Same --> > ================================================= > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:10 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rides and non riders cars and airplanes End result remains the same when you hit 80 mph and no steering in the air or on the land there is little difference in the fall out! John Do not archive In a message dated 12/14/2009 12:02:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Probably because the fall out of an experimental car is much lets than from an experimental airplane. rh On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 AM, <_amsafetyc@aol.com_ (mailto:amsafetyc@aol.com) > wrote: While in discussion with a buddy of mine about the Piet and its progress his lovely spouse and friend chimed in, " you'll never get me in that thing" my reply was equally short and pointed " who said you were invited?" end of conversation. Some how people just assume that they will be offered a ride and want to make certain that all faith in the builder, design and construction confusion about the safety of the craft is un mistakenly, highly known and publicly pronounced. The thing that most amazes me is that if you suggested that you had a hand made custom automobile, people would stand in line to see it and hope to be offered a ride. You do the same with an airplane except that it has an experimental classification and people run for the hills. Would that be the same if you had an Experimental Bougatti,Rolls Royce, Farrari, Lamborgini, Lotus or fiber body Shelby Mustang? John In a message dated 12/7/2009 3:37:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, _timothywillis@earthlink.net_ (mailto:timothywillis@earthlink.net) writes: <_timothywillis@earthlink.net_ (mailto:timothywillis@earthlink.net) > m, We must keep our wives apart-- My wife says about the Piet, "Neither Wilbur nor Orville would get in that thing." BTW, I am sure that neither will she. As I told Chuck Gantzer, however, "The passenger door allows [tall] Nicole Kidman to enter gracefully." Tim in central TX do not archive/tell my wife ;) -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Dec 7, 2009 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tim: Funny you should mention that as it's the same thing my wife said about building my own airplane. Besides, there's no way to make the weight and balance work out with a 400# JATO =======================nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts tric re b k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List ======================== Use the ties Day ======================== Same --> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:55 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine In the YouTube video, towards the end, there is a "Faker Fokker" taxiing out. Hard to tell what it is but it sorta bears a resemblance to a Piet. do not archive Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:53 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine Oscar, I can't find the YouTube link you're talking about, but the Flying Circus had a Fokker look alike for years that the "Black Baron" flew. It was a Corben Junior Ace. Red and white, right? Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > > > In the YouTube video, towards the end, there is a > "Faker Fokker" taxiing out. Hard to tell what it > is but it sorta bears a resemblance to a Piet. > > do not archive > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rides and non riders cars and airplanes From: Rick Holland Evil Knievel survived many +80 mph dumps on this motorcycle, he may not have been so lucky jumping from an 80 mph Piet at 5000 ft. MSL (without a parachute) ;). rh On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM, wrote: > End result remains the same when you hit 80 mph and no steering in the > air or on the land there is little difference in the fall out! > > John > > Do not archive > > In a message dated 12/14/2009 12:02:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > at7000ft@gmail.com writes: > > Probably because the fall out of an experimental car is much lets than from > an experimental airplane. > > rh > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 AM, wrote: > >> While in discussion with a buddy of mine about the Piet and its progress >> his lovely spouse and friend chimed in, " you'll never get me in that thing" >> my reply was equally short and pointed " who said you were invited?" end of >> conversation. Some how people just assume that they will be offered a ride >> and want to make certain that all faith in the builder, design and >> construction confusion about the safety of the craft is un mistakenly, >> highly known and publicly pronounced. >> >> The thing that most amazes me is that if you suggested that you had a hand >> made custom automobile, people would stand in line to see it and hope to be >> offered a ride. You do the same with an airplane except that it has an >> experimental classification and people run for the hills. >> >> Would that be the same if you had an Experimental Bougatti,Rolls Royce, >> Farrari, Lamborgini, Lotus or fiber body Shelby Mustang? >> >> John >> >> In a message dated 12/7/2009 3:37:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> timothywillis@earthlink.net writes: >> >> timothywillis@earthlink.net> >> >> m, >> We must keep our wives apart-- >> My wife says about the Piet, "Neither Wilbur nor Orville would get in that >> thing." >> >> BTW, I am sure that neither will she. >> >> As I told Chuck Gantzer, however, "The passenger door allows [tall] Nicole >> Kidman to enter gracefully." >> Tim in central TX >> do not archive/tell my wife ;) >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: TOM STINEMETZE >> Sent: Dec 7, 2009 2:48 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo >> >> Tim: >> >> Funny you should mention that as it's the same thing my wife said about >> building my own airplane. Besides, there's no way to make the weight and >> balance work out with a 400# JATO =======================nbsp; (And >> Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts tric re b k you for p; >> -Matt Dralle, List ======================== Use the ties Day >> ======================== Same --> >> >> >> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > * > > =================================== > ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com > m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com > "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com > tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ====================================ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > * > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:08 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine well, they CALLED it a Corbin. It was made from an Aeronca Chief fuselage, gear, tail feathers, etc. No aerobatics in it, though! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Bressler To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine > Oscar, I can't find the YouTube link you're talking about, but the Flying Circus had a Fokker look alike for years that the "Black Baron" flew. It was a Corben Junior Ace. Red and white, right? Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > > > > In the YouTube video, towards the end, there is a > "Faker Fokker" taxiing out. Hard to tell what it > is but it sorta bears a resemblance to a Piet. > > do not archive > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:24 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine Now that's a story! Very interesting. I thought I had seen a website recently where a guy had bought it and restored it. Younger guy. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Dec 14, 2009, at 6:43 PM, "Gene Rambo" wrote: > well, they CALLED it a Corbin. It was made from an Aeronca Chief > fuselage, gear, tail feathers, etc. No aerobatics in it, though! > > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wayne Bressler > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:40 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine > > > > > Oscar, > > I can't find the YouTube link you're talking about, but the Flying > Circus had a Fokker look alike for years that the "Black Baron" flew. > It was a Corben Junior Ace. Red and white, right? > > Wayne Bressler Jr. > Taildraggers, Inc. > taildraggersinc.com > > Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In the YouTube video, towards the end, there is a > > "Faker Fokker" taxiing out. Hard to tell what it > > is but it sorta bears a resemblance to a Piet. > > > > do not archive > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Air Camper NX41CC > > San Antonio, TX > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link > Free * AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your > generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; > Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > _============= > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:00 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine he did, I am not sure what all he did to it, but it was getting pretty tired. I flew it a time or two, it had no brakes, etc, but didn't need them. Kind of fun! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Bressler To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine Now that's a story! Very interesting. I thought I had seen a website recently where a guy had bought it and restored it. Younger guy. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Dec 14, 2009, at 6:43 PM, "Gene Rambo" > wrote: well, they CALLED it a Corbin. It was made from an Aeronca Chief fuselage, gear, tail feathers, etc. No aerobatics in it, though! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Bressler To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine > Oscar, I can't find the YouTube link you're talking about, but the Flying Circus had a Fokker look alike for years that the "Black Baron" flew. It was a Corben Junior Ace. Red and white, right? Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Oscar Zuniga > wrote: > > > > > In the YouTube video, towards the end, there is a > "Faker Fokker" taxiing out. Hard to tell what it > is but it sorta bears a resemblance to a Piet. > > do not archive > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Free * AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:56 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine I saw it at Warrenton one day. Held the tail while the pilot hand propped it. That must have been back in early 2001? I can't remember... Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Dec 14, 2009, at 7:27 PM, "Gene Rambo" wrote: > he did, I am not sure what all he did to it, but it was getting > pretty tired. I flew it a time or two, it had no brakes, etc, but > didn't need them. Kind of fun! > > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Wayne Bressler > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:14 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine > > Now that's a story! Very interesting. I thought I had seen a > website recently where a guy had bought it and restored it. Younger > guy. > > Wayne Bressler Jr. > Taildraggers, Inc. > taildraggersinc.com > > Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 6:43 PM, "Gene Rambo" wrote: > >> well, they CALLED it a Corbin. It was made from an Aeronca Chief >> fuselage, gear, tail feathers, etc. No aerobatics in it, though! >> >> Gene >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Wayne Bressler >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:40 PM >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Farmer routine >> >> > >> >> Oscar, >> >> I can't find the YouTube link you're talking about, but the Flying >> Circus had a Fokker look alike for years that the "Black Baron" flew. >> It was a Corben Junior Ace. Red and white, right? >> >> Wayne Bressler Jr. >> Taildraggers, Inc. >> taildraggersinc.com >> >> Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. >> >> On Dec 14, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Oscar Zuniga >> wrote: >> >> > > >> > >> > >> > In the YouTube video, towards the end, there is a >> > "Faker Fokker" taxiing out. Hard to tell what it >> > is but it sorta bears a resemblance to a Piet. >> > >> > do not archive >> > >> > Oscar Zuniga >> > Air Camper NX41CC >> > San Antonio, TX >> > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >> > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> > -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link >> Free * AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your >> generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; >> Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> _============= >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/ href="http:// > www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ctitle=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ribs From: Robert Ray My grand mother pressure cooked them with a little salt pepper garlic and then browned them in the oven with her home made sauce, Best ribs I ever eat! Russell Do not archive On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Bill Church wrote: > billspiet@sympatico.ca> > > Hunh? > > I've never heard of wood getting brittle by steaming too long. > The theory behind steaming is that the elevated temperature and humidity > breaks down the lignin, which is basically the glue that holds the wood > fibers together. When the lignin gets heated, it allows the wood fibers to > slide a bit, which results in a more flexible piece of wood. The good thing > is that when the wood returns to "normal" temperatures, the lignin re-sets, > and the wood structure becomes more rigid once again. As long as the wood is > held in a new shape during the cooling process, the wood will retain a new > shape when cooled, and also retain the strength. > Heating the wood without the added moisture that the steam provides may > result in increased brittle-ness, since the added heat would also likely dry > the wood even further than the beginning state. > Soaking wood in water also softens up the wood a bit, which allows the wood > to bend a bit more easily, but it will take longer to dry, and won't permit > the same degree of "bendability". > > I steamed my Sitka capstrips for about 15-20 minutes, and never had any of > them even think about snapping. > > Bill C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Paule > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:29 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs > > > Good point about the time of steaming. The shorter the steaming time the > better. With lots of steam, two to four minutes might even do it. > > David Paule > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave and Connie" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 7:34 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs > > > > > > > > I am using poplar and just soak them in hot water for a couple of hours. > > A real high tech soaking rig - 2 liter soda bottle. I can get two > > sticks in at a time. > > How are you bending them? I made a jig out of 2x4 that clamps the top > > and bottom of the capstrip into slightly more of a curve than the rib > > until it dries. If you are just sticking soaked or steamed strips in > > your rib jig you are probably putting a lot of pressure on a few points. > > > > Also - if you are steaming be sure that you do not oversteam. It will > > make the wood brittle. I would guess maybe 10-15 minutes max for a > > cap strip. > > > > Dave > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277486#277486 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:10 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ribs I don't know if it is because the lignin breaks down or if it takes a set but most wood can be over steamed. I tried to find out why it fails with google today but all I found were the warnings that it happens. There is a pretty wide range of steaming times that work so you probably have to go pretty long to make it happen. It is strange the first time you wrap a 1" x 1" piece of oak around a form and feel the wood fibers slipping. I haven't found a need to steam capstrips using poplar this time around or sitka when I started building the first time. Dave Bill Church wrote: > > Hunh? > > I've never heard of wood getting brittle by steaming too long. > The theory behind steaming is that the elevated temperature and humidity breaks down the lignin, which is basically the glue that holds the wood fibers together. When the lignin gets heated, it allows the wood fibers to slide a bit, which results in a more flexible piece of wood. The good thing is that when the wood returns to "normal" temperatures, the lignin re-sets, and the wood structure becomes more rigid once again. As long as the wood is held in a new shape during the cooling process, the wood will retain a new shape when cooled, and also retain the strength. > Heating the wood without the added moisture that the steam provides may result in increased brittle-ness, since the added heat would also likely dry the wood even further than the beginning state. > Soaking wood in water also softens up the wood a bit, which allows the wood to bend a bit more easily, but it will take longer to dry, and won't permit the same degree of "bendability". > > I steamed my Sitka capstrips for about 15-20 minutes, and never had any of them even think about snapping. > > Bill C. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 From: "Pieti Lowell" For those that have not seen the Technical Data specs on T-88 go to (www.systemthree.com ). It says that the shelf life is about one year. I had a partial left-over T-88 from November 2004 while working on my Riblitt 612 wing, I found that both containers were almost solid. I put them in a pot of hot water and soon they were very fluid. I mixed up a batch to try on a wood project, it is amazing how well it worked. I don't recommend using old T-88 on a Piet, but it sure works. The containers are stored in my basement at 65 Deg. F. Pieti Lowell PS: Got 30 Min, of Piet time last Sunday, with a warm tingle from the radiator in 25 Deg air, She never fails to bring back that old feeling. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277562#277562 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:26 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ribs The topic came up with Ponderosa Pine. Maybe the thing to do is to use a more common aircraft wood.... David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave and Connie" Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ribs > > > I don't know if it is because the lignin breaks down or if it takes a set > but most wood can be over steamed. I tried to find out why it fails with > google today but all I found were the warnings that it happens. There is > a pretty wide range of steaming times that work so you probably have to go > pretty long to make it happen. It is strange the first time you wrap a 1" > x 1" piece of oak around a form and feel the wood fibers slipping. > > I haven't found a need to steam capstrips using poplar this time around or > sitka when I started building the first time. > > Dave > > > Bill Church wrote: >> >> >> Hunh? >> >> I've never heard of wood getting brittle by steaming too long. >> The theory behind steaming is that the elevated temperature and humidity >> breaks down the lignin, which is basically the glue that holds the wood >> fibers together. When the lignin gets heated, it allows the wood fibers >> to slide a bit, which results in a more flexible piece of wood. The good >> thing is that when the wood returns to "normal" temperatures, the lignin >> re-sets, and the wood structure becomes more rigid once again. As long as >> the wood is held in a new shape during the cooling process, the wood will >> retain a new shape when cooled, and also retain the strength. >> Heating the wood without the added moisture that the steam provides may >> result in increased brittle-ness, since the added heat would also likely >> dry the wood even further than the beginning state. >> Soaking wood in water also softens up the wood a bit, which allows the >> wood to bend a bit more easily, but it will take longer to dry, and won't >> permit the same degree of "bendability". >> >> I steamed my Sitka capstrips for about 15-20 minutes, and never had any >> of them even think about snapping. >> >> Bill C. >> > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:38 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Tried to use some T-88 on a non-aircraft project today and it was too cold to squeeze it out of the containers. Brought it in to warm up, and I'll try it again tomorrow. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pieti Lowell" Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 8:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 > > > For those that have not seen the Technical Data specs on T-88 go to > (www.systemthree.com ). It says that the shelf life is about one year. I > had a partial left-over T-88 from November 2004 while working on my > Riblitt 612 wing, I found that both containers were almost solid. I put > them in a pot of hot water and soon they were very fluid. I mixed up a > batch to try on a wood project, it is amazing how well it worked. I don't > recommend using old T-88 on a Piet, but it sure works. The containers are > stored in my basement at 65 Deg. F. > Pieti Lowell > PS: Got 30 Min, of Piet time last Sunday, with a warm tingle from the > radiator in 25 Deg air, She never fails to bring back that old feeling. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277562#277562 > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ribs From: "Pieti Lowell" Having been in the Fiber Board development industry for many years, supplying dehydrators systems we would add steam to a screw with wood chips and with a given time the output is only Lignin fiber fed directly into a hot air medium to produce a cotton like material only to be pressed into fiber-board, So don't over steam. Pieti Lowell/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277565#277565 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:23 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rides and non riders cars and airplanes My ex was fearful of anything not firmly sitting on the ground, boats and airplanes. Funny thing though, when I taught her how to drive in our MGB she quickly became both competent AND fast! Now panicking and developing rigor mortis in a kayak in 2 inches of water was absolutely hilarious for me and our two daughters. Until we tried to get her out of it! Clif "I am always doing things I can't do, that's how I get to do them. " ~ Pablo Picasso ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rides and non riders cars and airplanes End result remains the same when you hit 80 mph and no steering in the air or on the land there is little difference in the fall out! John Do not archive In a message dated 12/14/2009 12:02:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, at7000ft@gmail.com writes: Probably because the fall out of an experimental car is much lets than from an experimental airplane. rh On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:13 AM, wrote: While in discussion with a buddy of mine about the Piet and its progress his lovely spouse and friend chimed in, " you'll never get me in that thing" my reply was equally short and pointed " who said you were invited?" end of conversation. Some how people just assume that they will be offered a ride and want to make certain that all faith in the builder, design and construction confusion about the safety of the craft is un mistakenly, highly known and publicly pronounced. The thing that most amazes me is that if you suggested that you had a hand made custom automobile, people would stand in line to see it and hope to be offered a ride. You do the same with an airplane except that it has an experimental classification and people run for the hills. Would that be the same if you had an Experimental Bougatti,Rolls Royce, Farrari, Lamborgini, Lotus or fiber body Shelby Mustang? John In a message dated 12/7/2009 3:37:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, timothywillis@earthlink.net writes: m, We must keep our wives apart-- My wife says about the Piet, "Neither Wilbur nor Orville would get in that thing." BTW, I am sure that neither will she. As I told Chuck Gantzer, however, "The passenger door allows [tall] Nicole Kidman to enter gracefully." Tim in central TX do not archive/tell my wife ;) -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Dec 7, 2009 2:48 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpaceShipTwo Tim: Funny you should mention that as it's the same thing my wife said about building my own airplane. Besides, there's no way to make the weight and balance work out with a 400# JATO =======================nbsp ; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts tric re b k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List ======================== Use the ties Day ======================== Same --> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 12/14/09 19:40:00 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:39 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ribs Some woods just don't respond well to steaming or soaking. Some bend quite easily. Just like any beam the bending is centered around the neutral line in the center. On the inside of the bend we see compression and the outside tension. The "modulus of elasticity" ( ? ) is the important factor here, the higher the better. Ash, a very good bending wood is 1.77, White Oak-1.78. But Red Oak is only 1.49. Sitka Spruce-1.57. The pines have a wide range, from 1.76 for Southern Yellow Shortleaf down to 1.2 for Sugar Pine. The forest Lab has tested nine varieties of Pines. Pick the right one and Bob's your uncle. The wrong one? You're up that very special creek. Next question, how do you know which one you've got. Ponderosa was mentioned. Unfortunately it's modulus is only 1.26, not a good bending wood. Clif "Learning is finding out what you already know. Doing is demonstrating that you know it. Teaching is reminding others that they know it just as well as you." Richard Bach > The topic came up with Ponderosa Pine. > > Maybe the thing to do is to use a more common aircraft wood.... > > David Paule > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.