---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/18/09: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:15 AM - Re: Control stick wood (Clif Dawson) 2. 03:35 AM - Re: Control stick wood (Jack Phillips) 3. 03:37 AM - Re: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009 (Jack Phillips) 4. 05:51 AM - stops and sticks (Douwe Blumberg) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009 (airlion) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis (Michael Perez) 7. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis (Michael Perez) 8. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis (vahowdy@aol.com) 9. 06:50 AM - Re: stops and sticks (Gary Boothe) 10. 07:13 AM - Re: stops and sticks (H RULE) 11. 07:13 AM - Control stops/pulley guards (Ben Charvet) 12. 07:43 AM - Re: Control stops/pulley guards (Richard Schreiber) 13. 07:54 AM - Plans on E bay (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 14. 07:56 AM - Re: Control stops/pulley guards (Gary Boothe) 15. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis (David Paule) 16. 08:09 AM - Quick disconnect front control stick (helspersew@aol.com) 17. 08:25 AM - Re: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis (Michael Perez) 18. 08:30 AM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Gary Boothe) 19. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis (Michael Perez) 20. 08:45 AM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (helspersew@aol.com) 21. 08:53 AM - Re: Control stops/pulley guards (Jack Phillips) 22. 09:57 AM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Jim Markle) 23. 11:13 AM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Gary Boothe) 24. 12:04 PM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Dan Yocum) 25. 12:39 PM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Gary Boothe) 26. 12:43 PM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (John Hofmann) 27. 01:02 PM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Gary Boothe) 28. 01:08 PM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (helspersew@aol.com) 29. 01:08 PM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Jeff Boatright) 30. 01:45 PM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 31. 01:50 PM - Re: Quick disconnect front control stick (Gary Boothe) 32. 03:36 PM - Re: Control stops/pulley guards (Ben Charvet) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:09 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood Maybe just removable, like Mikey's. Clif on the Wetcoast, Land of the Stolen Sun ----- Original Message ----- > > Maybe a 100# breakaway stick in the front pit, and 200# stick for the > pilot? > Tim in central TX ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:35 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood Looks good, Gary! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:32 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood I see what you mean.and to top it off is a hand-carved Hickory grip. I moved the stick forward a couple inches (I can do that because of the push rods) and gave the pilot stick a little shape. The forward cockpit has a straight stick - otherwise the same. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood That sounds like a dessert, not an airplane part! ;) Ryan do not archive On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:01 PM, wrote: FWIW...mine are laminated Orange Paduka and Maple. Gary Boothe Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry www.aeroelectric.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:52 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009 How about Sun 'n' Fun? Will you fly it down there, Gardiner? I'm hoping to fly mine down there this year, wx permitting. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009 Mac, I hope to. Gardiner _____ From: Mac Zirges Sent: Mon, January 1, 1990 4:37:46 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009 Gardiner-- Your Piet looks great! Are you going to fly it to Brodhead this year? --Mac in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: airlion Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 3:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009 Hey listers, Has anyone done a stress analysis for the pietenpol? I have a friend here in Lagrange that is an engineer and used to work for Lockheed. He says that he can do a stress test on my Piet. I will let ya'll know the results. Cheers, Gardiner ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Susan Mason Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 7:06:12 PM Subject: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009 _____ : 4/6/07 12:00 AM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:15 AM PST US From: Douwe Blumberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: stops and sticks Both control sticks on 799B are wood. They're laminated up from doug fir with a center of 1/4" marine plywood, as are my cabanes and lift struts. Not flight tested, but VERY strong. Since my controls are all in, I've been trying to figure out a way to modify some stops into the design. I got to thinking, why couldn't one use the front stick actuator rod by simply putting a couple of hose clamps on it under the passenger seat. One forward to hit the ply front support and one back to hit the passenger back rest/bulkhead? seems simple and ultimately adjustable. One could always glue or screw a patch of nylon sheet to take any abrasion that may occur. D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:54 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009 I am hoping to Jack. My inspection is in Jan., and then I have to fly off 4 0 hours. Cheers, Gardiner=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Jack Phillips =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics ..com=0ASent: Fri, December 18, 2009 6:34:55 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-Lis t: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009=0A=0A =0AHow about Sun =98n=99 Fun? =0AWill you fly it down there, Gardiner? I=99m hoping to fly mine down=0Athere this year, wx permitting.=0A =0AJack Phill ips=0ANX899JP=0ARaleigh, NC=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol- list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion=0ASent: Thursday, December 17, 2009=0A7:19 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Piete npol-List: Fw:=0AGardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009=0A =0AMac, I hop e to.=0AGardiner=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:Mac =0AZirges =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, January 1, 1990 4:37:46=0AAM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw:=0AGardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009=0AGardiner--=0AYour Piet looks great! Are you going to fly it to Brodhead=0Athis year?=0A =0A--Mac in Oregon=0A>=0A>> =0A>----- Original Message ----- =0A>>=0A>From:airlion =0A>>=0A>To:pietenpo l =0A>>=0A>Sent:Wednesday,=0A>December 16, 2009 3:22 PM=0A>>=0A>Subject:Pie tenpol-List:=0A>Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009=0A>>=0A> =0A> >=0A>>=0A>Hey listers, Has anyone=0A>done a stress analysis for the pietenp ol? I have a friend here in Lagrange that=0A>is an engineer and used to wor k for Lockheed. He says that he can do a stress test=0A>on my Piet. I will let ya'll know the results. Cheers, Gardiner=0A>>=0A> =0A>>=0A>----- Forwar ded Message ----=0A>From: Susan Mason =0A>To: Gardin er Mason =0A>Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009=0A>7:06:12 PM=0A>Subject: Gardiner and his=0A>Pietenpol, December 2009=0A>>=0A>>=0A___ _____________________________=0A >=0A>: 4/6/07 12:00 AM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:11 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis I understand Bill and thank you for your Internet research.-- That was/ is going to be my next step, but I wanted to ask the list first just in cas e someone out there had some real world experience using SS on the tail. (o r anywhere)- --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis > My gut feeling would be that AN bolts would be the way to go, and that stai nless steel fasteners should only be used for non-structural applications, such as trim attachment, etc.- - BUT I just did a quick internet search, and found a website that lists MS27039C stainless steel machine screws with 125,000 PSI listed strength: http://www.skybolt.com The website won't allow me to give a direct link to the specific page, so y ou'll have to go over to the left hand side of the page, and click "online purchasing", then click on "AN-MS-NAS Screws", and then "MS27039C Screws-St ainless". A screen shot is attached for reference. So, the short answer is MAYBE you can buy AIRCRAFT GRADE stainless steel fa steners that have strength comparable to AN bolts - but you should check ve ry carefully with the supplier regarding the strength. I have no idea how t hese stainless steel fasteners compare with regards to fatigue strength, or anything else, for that matter. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277984#277984 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/skybolt_114.jpg le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:45 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis Thanks David. For my own curiosity, I will look into this further. I did no tice in the A.C. Spruce catalog for some of their SS hardware they state th e specs. that the bolts/screws meet.- (meets mil spec XXX-XX.XXX)- I pl an to look into these just to see what they say. I don't know if anyone has done so for use in a Pietenpol, but I think it would be nice, although exp ensive, to find SUITABLE SS hardware wherever it can be used. If it can't, it can't. --- On Thu, 12/17/09, David Paule wrote: From: David Paule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis In certified aircraft, specific hardware is included as part of the type ce rtificate. Hardware that meets the same specifications as original are to b e used, even if it is stainless steel. - In some certified aircraft, certain particular stainless steel hardware has been used. I know of the reasonably wide use of A286, an iron, chrome and nickel alloy, due to his high strength and relatively high toughness. - The thing that's important in certified aircraft is to use the specified ha rdware for that particular application - and sometimes it will be stainless steel. - David Paule - - - - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis At least in a certified aircraft stainless hardware-is never approved for structural use.- Just because there is a MS number associated with a sta inless screw does not necessarily mean that is is approved for a particular purpose, just that there is a stock number for it.- Even though the tens ile strength of the material appears to equate to other steel hardware, I w ould not use it in a structural location. - Gene A&P and IA since 1981 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis > My gut feeling would be that AN bolts would be the way to go, and that stai nless steel fasteners should only be used for non-structural applications, such as trim attachment, etc.- - BUT I just did a quick internet search, and found a website that lists MS27039C stainless steel machine screws with 125,000 PSI listed strength: http://www.skybolt.com The website won't allow me to give a direct link to the specific page, so y ou'll have to go over to the left hand side of the page, and click "online purchasing", then click on "AN-MS-NAS Screws", and then "MS27039C Screws-St ainless". A screen shot is attached for reference. So, the short answer is MAYBE you can buy AIRCRAFT GRADE stainless steel fa steners that have strength comparable to AN bolts - but you should check ve ry carefully with the supplier regarding the strength. I have no idea how t hese stainless steel fasteners compare with regards to fatigue strength, or anything else, for that matter. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277984#277984 Attachments: http://forums -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual l ink Free * AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your gener ous ;--------------------- -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;------ Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp;- --- via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://f orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:49 AM PST US From: vahowdy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis I think all this talk about the strength of SS is much to do about nothing. The wood in the tail will fail well before even grade 3 bolt will fail. Bolt two 1 by's together, strand one and pull on the other. See what fails first. Howdy ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:09 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: stops and sticks An idea worth pursuing....although I'm not convinced that control stops are necessary. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: stops and sticks Both control sticks on 799B are wood. They're laminated up from doug fir with a center of 1/4" marine plywood, as are my cabanes and lift struts. Not flight tested, but VERY strong. Since my controls are all in, I've been trying to figure out a way to modify some stops into the design. I got to thinking, why couldn't one use the front stick actuator rod by simply putting a couple of hose clamps on it under the passenger seat. One forward to hit the ply front support and one back to hit the passenger back rest/bulkhead? seems simple and ultimately adjustable. One could always glue or screw a patch of nylon sheet to take any abrasion that may occur. D ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:07 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stops and sticks I am flying a GN-1 Aircamper,the cousin to the Piet and I don't have any st ops at all and I don't seem to have any problems in this area.=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: Gary Boothe =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, December 18, 2009 9:49: 39 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: stops and sticks=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-Li st message posted by: "Gary Boothe" =0A=0AAn idea wor th pursuing....although I'm not convinced that control stops are=0Anecessar y.=0A=0AGary Boothe=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounte d=0ATail done, Fuselage on gear=0A(16 ribs down.)=0ADo not archive=0A=0A--- --Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe=0A Blumberg=0ASent: Friday, December 18, 2009 5:50 AM=0ATo: pietenpolgroup=0AS ubject: Pietenpol-List: stops and sticks=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message po sted by: Douwe Blumberg=0A=0A=0ABoth control s ticks on 799B are wood.- They're laminated up from doug fir=0Awith a cent er of 1/4" marine plywood, as are my cabanes and lift struts.=0ANot flight tested, but VERY strong.=0A=0ASince my controls are all in, I've been tryin g to figure out a way to modify=0Asome stops into the design.- I got to t hinking, why couldn't one use the=0Afront stick actuator rod by simply putt ing a couple of hose clamps on it=0Aunder the passenger seat.- One forwar d to hit the ply front support and one=0Aback to hit the passenger- back rest/bulkhead?- seems simple and ultimately=0Aadjustable.- One could al ways glue or screw a patch of nylon sheet to take=0Aany abrasion that may o ==== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:16 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards I didn't have any stops in my Piet, but I started this thread because someone said the FAA inspector wanted to see them... I'm not sure they are necessary either, but I don't want to blow my inspection for something this easy to correct. Anybody want to talk about cable/pulley guards? I dont have any of those either (yet) and my Piet is all covered Ben Charvet Gary Boothe wrote: > > An idea worth pursuing....although I'm not convinced that control stops are > necessary. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:51 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards Ben: I did use pulley guards on all of my pulleys. I do remember some posts in the past where those that didn't install them had to ad them before their FAA inspector would issue the air worthiness certificate. That is why I put them on mine (plus the extra safety factor). Rick Schreiber > [Original Message] > From: Ben Charvet > To: > Date: 12/18/2009 9:15:43 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards > > > I didn't have any stops in my Piet, but I started this thread because > someone said the FAA inspector wanted to see them... > I'm not sure they are necessary either, but I don't want to blow my > inspection for something this easy to correct. > Anybody want to talk about cable/pulley guards? I dont have any of > those either (yet) and my Piet is all covered > > Ben Charvet > > > Gary Boothe wrote: > > > > An idea worth pursuing....although I'm not convinced that control stops are > > necessary. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:44 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans on E bay Ran across this on e bay if anyone ins interested with drawings for the biplane version. item number 290382001867 These drawings could be framed and hung on the wall like art. There are 8 pages of 18"x24" blueprints for the Aircamper or Sky Scout.. Also included are the supplemental drawings ( 3 pages) for the construction of the bi-wing version. This supplement includes full size drawings for the wing ribs. The Aircamper is an all wood, two place airplane designed for easy building and fun flying. Included is supplemental drawings for a longer fuselage version if using a lighter engine than the original. The plans also include the conversion of a Model-A Ford motor for aircraft use.These plans have been in my closet for 20 years and never used or even looked at in that time. These plans plus supplemental sell for $160.00, but I will start the bidding at $50.00. Thank you for looking and good luck. There is shipping and handling fee of $15.00. John ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:25 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards Pulley guards - absolutely, YES. That's a different issue from control stops. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 7:42 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards Ben: I did use pulley guards on all of my pulleys. I do remember some posts in the past where those that didn't install them had to ad them before their FAA inspector would issue the air worthiness certificate. That is why I put them on mine (plus the extra safety factor). Rick Schreiber > [Original Message] > From: Ben Charvet > To: > Date: 12/18/2009 9:15:43 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards > > > I didn't have any stops in my Piet, but I started this thread because > someone said the FAA inspector wanted to see them... > I'm not sure they are necessary either, but I don't want to blow my > inspection for something this easy to correct. > Anybody want to talk about cable/pulley guards? I dont have any of > those either (yet) and my Piet is all covered > > Ben Charvet > > > Gary Boothe wrote: > > > > An idea worth pursuing....although I'm not convinced that control stops are > > necessary. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:32 AM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis In general, the suffix "C" means 300 series stainless, and it's not nearly as strong as the standard hardware. If you find stuff with the suffix "N" it's probably the good A286, with a strength of 160 ksi, very good stuff. I hesitate to post this because I don't know that the "C" and "N" suffixes apply generally or if they sometimes mean different things. So be careful out there and check the specs yourself. But it's usually so expensive that even the aerospace companies, that use it in large quantities, complain about the cost. Worth mentioning: If you are installing a nut that is self-locking, and you need to put a specific torque on it, that's in addition to the running torque. You've got to measure the running torque before the nut seats and add to that to the spec torque. In most cases, though, you don't need to torque to a specification. This only applies to those cases where you do. >From personal experience with a 54 year old Cessna, I can say that AN hardware is remarkably durable and that provided that ordinary care is taken, perfectly satisfactory. My airplane still has some original hardware externally, and it's still airworthy. No longer shiny, to be sure, but airworthy still. The interior hardware is entirely sound, and in some cases isn't even tarnished. If I were building a Pietenpol, I'd ignore the lure of stainless steel where possible. It would only add to my difficulties. What I'd try to do is keep the types of hardware to a minimum, using AN (and NAS and MS) hardware where I could. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis Thanks David. For my own curiosity, I will look into this further. I did notice in the A.C. Spruce catalog for some of their SS hardware they state the specs. that the bolts/screws meet. (meets mil spec XXX-XX.XXX) I plan to look into these just to see what they say. I don't know if anyone has done so for use in a Pietenpol, but I think it would be nice, although expensive, to find SUITABLE SS hardware wherever it can be used. If it can't, it can't. --- On Thu, 12/17/09, David Paule wrote: From: David Paule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 7:30 PM In certified aircraft, specific hardware is included as part of the type certificate. Hardware that meets the same specifications as original are to be used, even if it is stainless steel. In some certified aircraft, certain particular stainless steel hardware has been used. I know of the reasonably wide use of A286, an iron, chrome and nickel alloy, due to his high strength and relatively high toughness. The thing that's important in certified aircraft is to use the specified hardware for that particular application - and sometimes it will be stainless steel. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis At least in a certified aircraft stainless hardware is never approved for structural use. Just because there is a MS number associated with a stainless screw does not necessarily mean that is is approved for a particular purpose, just that there is a stock number for it. Even though the tensile strength of the material appears to equate to other steel hardware, I would not use it in a structural location. Gene A&P and IA since 1981 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis My gut feeling would be that AN bolts would be the way to go, and that stainless steel fasteners should only be used for non-structural applications, such as trim attachment, etc. - BUT I just did a quick internet search, and found a website that lists MS27039C stainless steel machine screws with 125,000 PSI listed strength: http://www.skybolt.com The website won't allow me to give a direct link to the specific page, so you'll have to go over to the left hand side of the page, and click "online purchasing", then click on "AN-MS-NAS Screws", and then "MS27039C Screws-Stainless". A screen shot is attached for reference. So, the short answer is MAYBE you can buy AIRCRAFT GRADE stainless steel fasteners that have strength comparable to AN bolts - but you should check very carefully with the supplier regarding the strength. I have no idea how these stainless steel fasteners compare with regards to fatigue strength, or anything else, for that matter. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277984#277984 Attachments: http://forums -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Free * AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick From: helspersew@aol.com Here is a photo of my control sticks. The front one has those spring-loade d push-in pins for quick disconnect. I got those from Mc master-Carr. The rear has the Ken Perkins stops. I found that I had to weld those stops on a little off-center, to avoid contacting the control cable that rides alo ng the top of that torque tube. Then on the torque tube where they contact , I applied small patches of hard rubber 1/8" thick so as not to bang on that tube too hard. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:30 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis My feelings exactly. If steel fittings and bolts are breaking in flight, th ere probably isn't much wood left to fly anyway. - - --- On Fri, 12/18/09, vahowdy@aol.com wrote: From: vahowdy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis - I think all this talk about the strength of SS is much to do about noth ing.- The wood in the tail will fail well before-even -grade 3 bolt w ill fail. Bolt two 1 by's together, strand one and pull on the other. See w hat fails first. Howdy ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:06 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Nice! I would have expected no less from you, Dan. If you find yourself unexpectedly on a plane to N.California this weekend, be sure to stop by.the Cool Propeller Company is in full swing! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Here is a photo of my control sticks. The front one has those spring-loaded push-in pins for quick disconnect. I got those from Mc master-Carr. The rear has the Ken Perkins stops. I found that I had to weld those stops on a little off-center, to avoid contacting the control cable that rides along the top of that torque tube. Then on the torque tube where they contact, I applied small patches of hard rubber 1/8" thick so as not to bang on that tube too hard. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:50 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis I leaning that way as well David. SS costs more and it would be nice to hav e constant hardware throughout the plane. --- On Fri, 12/18/09, David Paule wrote: From: David Paule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis In general, the suffix "C" means 300 series stainless, and it's not nearly as strong as the standard hardware. If you find stuff with the suffix "N" i t's probably the good A286, with a strength of 160 ksi, very good stuff. - I hesitate to post this because I don't know that the "C" and "N" suffixes apply generally or if they sometimes mean different things. So be careful o ut there and check the specs yourself. - But it's usually so expensive that even the aerospace companies, that use i t in large quantities, complain about the cost. - Worth mentioning: If you are installing a nut that is self-locking, and you need to put-a specific torque on it, that's in addition to the running t orque. You've got to measure the running torque before the nut seats and ad d to that to the spec torque. In most cases, though, you don't need to torq ue to a specification. This only applies to those cases where you do. - >From personal experience with a 54 year old Cessna, I can say that AN hardw are is remarkably durable and that provided that ordinary care is taken, pe rfectly satisfactory. My airplane still has some original hardware external ly, and it's still airworthy. No longer shiny, to be sure, but airworthy st ill. The interior hardware is entirely sound, and in some cases isn't even tarnished. - If I were building a Pietenpol, I'd ignore the lure of stainless steel wher e possible. It would only add to my difficulties. What I'd try to do is kee p the types of hardware to a minimum, using AN (and NAS and MS)-hardware where I could. - David Paule - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis Thanks David. For my own curiosity, I will look into this further. I did no tice in the A.C. Spruce catalog for some of their SS hardware they state th e specs. that the bolts/screws meet.- (meets mil spec XXX-XX.XXX)- I pl an to look into these just to see what they say. I don't know if anyone has done so for use in a Pietenpol, but I think it would be nice, although exp ensive, to find SUITABLE SS hardware wherever it can be used. If it can't, it can't. --- On Thu, 12/17/09, David Paule wrote: From: David Paule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis In certified aircraft, specific hardware is included as part of the type ce rtificate. Hardware that meets the same specifications as original are to b e used, even if it is stainless steel. - In some certified aircraft, certain particular stainless steel hardware has been used. I know of the reasonably wide use of A286, an iron, chrome and nickel alloy, due to his high strength and relatively high toughness. - The thing that's important in certified aircraft is to use the specified ha rdware for that particular application - and sometimes it will be stainless steel. - David Paule - - - - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 3:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis At least in a certified aircraft stainless hardware-is never approved for structural use.- Just because there is a MS number associated with a sta inless screw does not necessarily mean that is is approved for a particular purpose, just that there is a stock number for it.- Even though the tens ile strength of the material appears to equate to other steel hardware, I w ould not use it in a structural location. - Gene A&P and IA since 1981 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis > My gut feeling would be that AN bolts would be the way to go, and that stai nless steel fasteners should only be used for non-structural applications, such as trim attachment, etc.- - BUT I just did a quick internet search, and found a website that lists MS27039C stainless steel machine screws with 125,000 PSI listed strength: http://www.skybolt.com The website won't allow me to give a direct link to the specific page, so y ou'll have to go over to the left hand side of the page, and click "online purchasing", then click on "AN-MS-NAS Screws", and then "MS27039C Screws-St ainless". A screen shot is attached for reference. So, the short answer is MAYBE you can buy AIRCRAFT GRADE stainless steel fa steners that have strength comparable to AN bolts - but you should check ve ry carefully with the supplier regarding the strength. I have no idea how t hese stainless steel fasteners compare with regards to fatigue strength, or anything else, for that matter. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=277984#277984 Attachments: http://forums -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual l ink Free * AeroElectric http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your gener ous ;--------------------- -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;------ Features Chat, http://www.matnbsp;- --- via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://f orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick From: helspersew@aol.com Photos of your prop please. :O) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 10:24 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Nice! I would have expected no less from you, Dan. If you find yourself unexpectedly on a plane to N.California this weekend, be sure to stop bythe Cool Propeller Company is in full swing! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Here is a photo of my control sticks. The front one has those spring-loade d push-in pins for quick disconnect. I got those from Mc master-Carr. The rear has the Ken Perkins stops. I found that I had to weld those stops on a little off-center, to avoid contacting the control cable that rides alo ng the top of that torque tube. Then on the torque tube where they contact , I applied small patches of hard rubber 1/8" thick so as not to bang on that tube too hard. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:43 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards Ben, the FAA inspector (from the FSDO - not a DAR) that inspected mine did not say a word about control stops (I have them) but did want to see that I had pulley guards on every pulley. I consider them essential, particularly on a Pietenpol, because the geometry of the control system is such that when one cable on a control surface is tight, the other generally goes slack somewhere in its travel (this is especially true of the elevator cables). Any time a cable can go slack, it can slip off its pulley. Hopefully, having the Piet covered won't be too much of a problem. Generally anywhere you have a pulley there needs to be an inspection hole anyway, so the pulleys can be lubricated during the annual condition inspection. In many cases, you can make a very simple guard that picks up the pulley axle bolt and then has some other feature to hold it in position, as shown below: Some of my pulley guards are nothing more than a cotter pin through two holes in the pulley brackets. They don't need to be elaborate, but they need to be there, and they need to ENSURE that the cable cannot get off the pulley and wedge between the pulley and the bracket. That could make for a very ugly situation. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards I didn't have any stops in my Piet, but I started this thread because someone said the FAA inspector wanted to see them... I'm not sure they are necessary either, but I don't want to blow my inspection for something this easy to correct. Anybody want to talk about cable/pulley guards? I dont have any of those either (yet) and my Piet is all covered Ben Charvet Gary Boothe wrote: > > An idea worth pursuing....although I'm not convinced that control stops are > necessary. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:29 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Yes! Let's see it..... -----Original Message----- From: helspersew@aol.com Sent: Dec 18, 2009 9:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Photos of your prop please. :O) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 10:24 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Nice! I would have expected no less from you, Dan. If you find yourself unexpectedly on a plane to N.California this weekend, be sure to stop bythe Cool Propeller Company is in full swing! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Here is a photo of my control sticks. The front one has those spring-loaded push-in pins for quick disconnect. I got those from Mc master-Carr. The rear has the Ken Perkins stops. I found that I had to weld those stops on a little off-center, to avoid contacting the control cable that rides along the top of that torque tube. Then on the torque tube where they contact, I applied small patches of hard rubber 1/8" thick so as not to bang on that tube too hard. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. =================================== =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:15 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Will do. I expect to spend 2 weekends...unless I really get over my trepidation about using a chainsaw! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 9:56 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Yes! Let's see it..... -----Original Message----- From: helspersew@aol.com Sent: Dec 18, 2009 9:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Photos of your prop please. :O) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 10:24 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Nice! I would have expected no less from you, Dan. If you find yourself unexpectedly on a plane to N.California this weekend, be sure to stop by.the Cool Propeller Company is in full swing! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Here is a photo of my control sticks. The front one has those spring-loaded push-in pins for quick disconnect. I got those from Mc master-Carr. The rear has the Ken Perkins stops. I found that I had to weld those stops on a little off-center, to avoid contacting the control cable that rides along the top of that torque tube. Then on the torque tube where they contact, I applied small patches of hard rubber 1/8" thick so as not to bang on that tube too hard. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. =================================== =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:35 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Gary, A word to the wise, keep the bar of the saw buried in the wood, right up to where it attaches to the engine. Do NOT try to cut with the tip of the blade. If it kicks back and you're not prepared, you could lose an arm (or a head...). If it kicks and the bar is buried, then it won't kick far. You'll also have better control over the saw with it buried in the wood and you can use the grabber teeth on the engine to lever your way through (a little - it's still better to just let it go through at it's own pace). Good luck! Dan Gary Boothe wrote: > > Will do. I expect to spend 2 weekends...unless I really get over my > trepidation about using a chainsaw! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (16 ribs down.) -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:55 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Roger...thanks! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Gary, A word to the wise, keep the bar of the saw buried in the wood, right up to where it attaches to the engine. Do NOT try to cut with the tip of the blade. If it kicks back and you're not prepared, you could lose an arm (or a head...). If it kicks and the bar is buried, then it won't kick far. You'll also have better control over the saw with it buried in the wood and you can use the grabber teeth on the engine to lever your way through (a little - it's still better to just let it go through at it's own pace). Good luck! Dan Gary Boothe wrote: > > Will do. I expect to spend 2 weekends...unless I really get over my > trepidation about using a chainsaw! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (16 ribs down.) -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:40 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Sage words from Dan "three finger" Yocum! do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Dec 18, 2009, at 2:03 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Gary, > > A word to the wise, keep the bar of the saw buried in the wood, right up to where it attaches to the engine. Do NOT try to cut with the tip of the blade. If it kicks back and you're not prepared, you could lose an arm (or a head...). If it kicks and the bar is buried, then it won't kick far. You'll also have better control over the saw with it buried in the wood and you can use the grabber teeth on the engine to lever your way through (a little - it's still better to just let it go through at it's own pace). > > Good luck! > Dan > > > Gary Boothe wrote: >> Will do. I expect to spend 2 weekends...unless I really get over my >> trepidation about using a chainsaw! >> Gary Boothe >> Cool, Ca. >> Pietenpol >> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted >> Tail done, Fuselage on gear >> (16 ribs down.) > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:38 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick AKA."Lefty." Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 12:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Sage words from Dan "three finger" Yocum! do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Dec 18, 2009, at 2:03 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: Gary, A word to the wise, keep the bar of the saw buried in the wood, right up to where it attaches to the engine. Do NOT try to cut with the tip of the blade. If it kicks back and you're not prepared, you could lose an arm (or a head...). If it kicks and the bar is buried, then it won't kick far. You'll also have better control over the saw with it buried in the wood and you can use the grabber teeth on the engine to lever your way through (a little - it's still better to just let it go through at it's own pace). Good luck! Dan Gary Boothe wrote: Will do. I expect to spend 2 weekends...unless I really get over my trepidation about using a chainsaw! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty -- Please Support Your Lists This (And Get * The Builder's Bookstore http://www.matronics.com/co -Matt Dralle, List - The --> http://www.matr &n============ Support Your Lists This Month -- Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on link below to find out more about Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided www.aeroelectric.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick From: helspersew@aol.com When I did mine, I used a 16" electric chain saw. Slower, constant speed, and I believe safer to operate. Personally I would never use a gas chain saw for this purpose. There are quite a few minutes of work with the chai nsaw, so fatigue would be a factor. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: John Hofmann Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2009 2:42 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Sage words from Dan "three finger" Yocum! do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Dec 18, 2009, at 2:03 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: Gary, A word to the wise, keep the bar of the saw buried in the wood, right up to where it attaches to the engine. Do NOT try to cut with the tip of th e blade. If it kicks back and you're not prepared, you could lose an arm (or a head...). If it kicks and the bar is buried, then it won't kick fa r. You'll also have better control over the saw with it buried in the woo d and you can use the grabber teeth on the engine to lever your way throug h (a little - it's still better to just let it go through at it's own pace ). Good luck! Dan Gary Boothe wrote: Will do. I expect to spend 2 weekends...unless I really get over my trepidation about using a chainsaw! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty -- Plea se Support Your Lists This (And Get * The Builder's Bookstor e http://www.matronics.com/co -Matt Dralle, Li st - The --> http://www.matr &n======= ===== ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:50 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick Nuh uh. He tol' me he lost that finger 'cause he forgot to pull it out before sitting down. Well, it's wut he tol' me, anyway. >Sage words from Dan "three finger" Yocum! > >do not archive > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:28 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick I'll bet he learned not to reach across the tablesaw for his beer;+} ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick > > > Nuh uh. He tol' me he lost that finger 'cause he forgot to pull it > out before sitting down. Well, it's wut he tol' me, anyway. > > >Sage words from Dan "three finger" Yocum! > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:36 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick My dad sawed the same thumb off, twice. After the 2nd time he told the doctor not to bother, as the thumb was obviously in the way.... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick I'll bet he learned not to reach across the tablesaw for his beer;+} ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick disconnect front control stick > > > Nuh uh. He tol' me he lost that finger 'cause he forgot to pull it > out before sitting down. Well, it's wut he tol' me, anyway. > > >Sage words from Dan "three finger" Yocum! > > > >do not archive > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:35 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards I've figured our a way to add them, sure would have been easier before the cover. All of my pulley brackets are so tight to the sides of the pulleys that I didn't see any way the cable could jam between the pulley and bracket. Jack, I couldn't find a way to open a XX.dat file. Ben Jack Phillips wrote: > Ben, the FAA inspector (from the FSDO - not a DAR) that inspected mine did > not say a word about control stops (I have them) but did want to see that I > had pulley guards on every pulley. I consider them essential, particularly > on a Pietenpol, because the geometry of the control system is such that when > one cable on a control surface is tight, the other generally goes slack > somewhere in its travel (this is especially true of the elevator cables). > Any time a cable can go slack, it can slip off its pulley. > > Hopefully, having the Piet covered won't be too much of a problem. > Generally anywhere you have a pulley there needs to be an inspection hole > anyway, so the pulleys can be lubricated during the annual condition > inspection. In many cases, you can make a very simple guard that picks up > the pulley axle bolt and then has some other feature to hold it in position, > as shown below: > > > Some of my pulley guards are nothing more than a cotter pin through two > holes in the pulley brackets. They don't need to be elaborate, but they > need to be there, and they need to ENSURE that the cable cannot get off the > pulley and wedge between the pulley and the bracket. That could make for a > very ugly situation. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:09 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stops/pulley guards > > > I didn't have any stops in my Piet, but I started this thread because > someone said the FAA inspector wanted to see them... > I'm not sure they are necessary either, but I don't want to blow my > inspection for something this easy to correct. > Anybody want to talk about cable/pulley guards? I dont have any of > those either (yet) and my Piet is all covered > > Ben Charvet > > > Gary Boothe wrote: > >> >> An idea worth pursuing....although I'm not convinced that control stops >> > are > >> necessary. >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.