---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/30/09: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:31 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Peter W Johnson) 2. 04:34 AM - Re: crankcase sealant question A-65 (Dick N) 3. 04:45 AM - Re: wood gear (gcardinal) 4. 05:44 AM - Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- from Russia, Wit (taildrags) 5. 06:34 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Barry Davis) 6. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- nurse (John Recine) 7. 07:02 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (taildrags) 8. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- nurse (TOM STINEMETZE) 9. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- from Russia, Wit (Dan Yocum) 10. 07:34 AM - Re: crankcase sealant question A-65 (Ryan Mueller) 11. 07:35 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Jeff Boatright) 12. 07:37 AM - Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- from Russia, Wi (taildrags) 13. 08:02 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Barry Davis) 14. 08:43 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Gary Boothe) 15. 08:45 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Jeff Boatright) 16. 09:05 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Michael Groah) 17. 09:09 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Michael Groah) 18. 09:48 AM - Centre wing section & fuel tank (Marc Dumay) 19. 09:49 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Gary Boothe) 20. 11:04 AM - Re: Centre wing section & fuel tank (Gary Boothe) 21. 11:55 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Barry Davis) 22. 12:52 PM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Rick Holland) 23. 01:45 PM - Center section covering (Rick Holland) 24. 02:09 PM - Fuselage Gussets (Jack) 25. 06:23 PM - Fuselage Gussets (Oscar Zuniga) 26. 06:58 PM - Center section covering (Oscar Zuniga) 27. 07:48 PM - Re: wood gear (Gene Rambo) 28. 07:58 PM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Darrel Jones) 29. 08:25 PM - Re: Fuselage Gussets (Dan Yocum) 30. 08:51 PM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Michael Groah) 31. 08:53 PM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Michael Groah) 32. 09:52 PM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Peter W Johnson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:46 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Mike, Check out http://www.cpc-world.com for some pictures on where I mounted mine. Go to "Engine Construction" -> "Engine Cooling". It worked well for me. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Wednesday, 30 December 2009 5:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? For those Piets with Corvairs..... Have any of you Corvair powered Pieters remote mounted your oil cooler? If so where did you put it and how did you mount it/duct air to it? I have some ideas and concept sketches but I figured I'd see what others are doing before I reinvent everything. Mike Groah Tulare CA Sprayed a coat of clear on my cockpit today and welded up my intake manifold. Tomorrow: Prep engine cooling scoops, intake, battery box, and probably some other items for paint. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:44 AM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: crankcase sealant question A-65 Hi Ben I just did a Google search under "Locktite 515" and quite a few sources came up with that product. My opinion is best to go with manufacture specs. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Charvet" Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 9:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: crankcase sealant question A-65 > > I'm having a hard time finding any Loctite 515, as specified in the TCM > SIL99-2B document to seal my crankcase halves (A-65). Since this is going > in a Pietenpol, I guess I don't have to use exactly what they specify, but > I was wondering what others have used with success, besides the Permatex > #3 Aviation/Loctite 515/silk thread to seal their crankcase halves. > > Ben Charvet > Mims, Fl > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:59 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood gear Hi Tom, My vote goes to the wood landing gear. It vastly improves the airplane's "ramp appeal". Jack gave the reason for the lower block angle. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear Still trying to decide between the wood gear and cub style. My question about the wood gear is, what is the importance of the lower block aiming at the tailwheel? I don't get it. Couldn't it just be straight? Wouldn't that make things simpler to build? I'm not trying to go against tradition or originality, but I just don't understand why this is important. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks, Tom B. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- from Russia, Wit From: "taildrags" Mikee, you're shaking the wrong trees. Find you a nice Yankee girl that knows her propellers, maybe a nurse... -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279196#279196 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_147.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:40 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? This is our installation on the Big Piets. I will post another pic in greater detail, but you can see some in this pic. There is an extension out the back of the eyebrow that sends air down thru the oil cooler in the stock location which keeps everything very simple. 4 of the 6 Big Piets are flying and some have acculimated about 25 hours. Cooling has not been a concern at all with this setup. I'll take a more detailed pic after the holidays. Barry Davis NX973BP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? For those Piets with Corvairs..... Have any of you Corvair powered Pieters remote mounted your oil cooler? If so where did you put it and how did you mount it/duct air to it? I have some ideas and concept sketches but I figured I'd see what others are doing before I reinvent everything. Mike Groah Tulare CA Sprayed a coat of clear on my cockpit today and welded up my intake manifold. Tomorrow: Prep engine cooling scoops, intake, battery box, and probably some other items for paint. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- nurse From: "John Recine" The problem with the nurses is that they attribute all my difficulties,problems and lifes issues to being visual in nature. My wife has said on more than one occasion, more like every occasion where she has become aware of challenging life event that I am or we are faced with; it becomes visual cause and she let's me know that by clearly articulating her situational assessment of the root cause "see, see what happens when you don't listen to me"! I am taking that as, the nursing diagnosis, that all problems are a visually related thing! John Do not archive ------Original Message------ From: taildrags Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- from Russia, Wit Sent: Dec 30, 2009 8:43 AM Mikee, you're shaking the wrong trees. Find you a nice Yankee girl that knows her propellers, maybe a nurse... -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279196#279196 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_147.jpg Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? From: "taildrags" You asked for *remote* oil cooler installations, right? Here's what William Wynne had on his Piet. -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279207#279207 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wwvair11_148.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:25 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- nurse I hear 'ya John! Tom do not archive >>> "John Recine" 12/30/2009 8:52 AM >>> The problem with the nurses is that they attribute all my difficulties,prob lems and lifes issues to being visual in nature. My wife has said on more than one occasion, more like every occasion where she has become aware of challenging life event that I am or we are faced with; it becomes visual cause and she let's me know that by clearly articulating her situational assessment of the root cause "see, see what happens when you don't listen to me"! I am taking that as, the nursing diagnosis, that all problems are a visually related thing! John ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:55 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- from Russia, Wit Oscar, Part of your image didn't come through - I can't see the landing gear or the type of wheels they chose on that Camel. I also can't see what kind of shock absorption they chose - bungees or springs? Does it have disc or drum and strap brakes? Smooth or grooved tires? I'm sure everyone would like to know the answers to these and other questions about that plane. ;-) Dan do NOT archive taildrags wrote: > > Mikee, you're shaking the wrong trees. Find you a nice Yankee girl that knows her propellers, maybe a nurse... > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > Air Camper NX41CC > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279196#279196 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/prop_147.jpg > > > > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: crankcase sealant question A-65 From: Ryan Mueller Ben, I would recommend getting it from McMaster Carr....you have to pay shipping as opposed to if you found it locally, but the time saved in searching for it will probably be worth a couple bucks. I picked up some Loctite 620 (could not find it locally) from them a little while back for the Corvair. http://www.mcmaster.com/ ...and search for 'loctite 515'. Three sizes available. Have a good day, Ryan On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > I'm having a hard time finding any Loctite 515, as specified in the TCM > SIL99-2B document to seal my crankcase halves (A-65). Since this is going > in a Pietenpol, I guess I don't have to use exactly what they specify, but I > was wondering what others have used with success, besides the Permatex #3 > Aviation/Loctite 515/silk thread to seal their crankcase halves. > > Ben Charvet > Mims, Fl > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:54 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Barry, That is a fantastically clean engine installation! Congrats. Did you guys make the eyebrows? Jeff -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: my last girlfriend before the Pietenpol---- from Russia, Wi From: "taildrags" Dan: like Mike, you're shaking the wrong trees ;o) Anyway, back in better times, there was more left to the imagination and it made daydreaming a lot more pleasant. Now I'll bet if you use your imagination you'll do just fine figuring out all about the tyres, brakes, flying wires, and other details of that Camel. And don't worry about that propeller blade being in too close a proximity to the lovely lady's hinder parts. She'll move when the pilot shouts 'CLEAR PROP!' -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279217#279217 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:58 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Yep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do. Barry -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:28 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Barry, That is a fantastically clean engine installation! Congrats. Did you guys make the eyebrows? Jeff -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:04 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Barry, Can you tell us how, or where, to find info on rolling wire into the edges? Thanks for the pic. As you see, I have more to do... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:02 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Yep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do. Barry -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:28 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Barry, That is a fantastically clean engine installation! Congrats. Did you guys make the eyebrows? Jeff -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:08 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Is there a write-up somewhere on how to make them with the wire rolled in the edges? > >Yep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do. >Barry -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:08 AM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? I agree the engine looks great Barry. Do you have any cowling pics of your plane? I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cowling with the corvair and scoops. My plan has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (maybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling scoops already like you with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but it is easier with the right tools.) A big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance. If anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or corvair cowls with the scoops, send them my way. Thanks Mike Groah Tulare CA (going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today, but I hope to get back in time to get a little Piet work in today) ________________________________ From: Barry Davis Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 8:01:44 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Yep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do. Barry -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:28 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Barry, That is a fantastically clean engine installation! Congrats. Did you guys make the eyebrows? Jeff -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:17 AM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? I don't know what Barry did, but I used my bead roller to start the roll, put the wire in and then used the bead roller to continue the roll around the wire. The last bit was some hammer forming. I did try it with just a hammer and it can be done, it's just more work. Mike Groah Tulare CA ________________________________ From: Jeff Boatright Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 8:15:24 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Is there a write-up somewhere on how to make them with the wire rolled in the edges? > >Yep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do. >Barry -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:13 AM PST US From: "Marc Dumay" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Centre wing section & fuel tank Fellow builders and mentors, Happy Holidays What thickness of plywood is being used on the sides of the ribs on the top centre section and bottom, holding the fuel tank? Any advantages or cons between making an aluminum tank or fibreglass one? Excluding the talents of the fabricator. Would you hold more fuel or less with one over the other? Drain fittings and fill connections, are they problem free over time in a fibreglass tank? Those of you, who make your control horns out of one piece instead of two welded together, what thickness of 4130 are you using? Is it necessary to roll the edges, or the thickness takes all into account? Any suggestions on part # and supplier that are being used for bearings on the bell crank and main control tubing? Does the use of bearings, instead of the fabricated ones from the Piet drawing's, give you a smoother feel for the flight controls? I have read that stainless bolts are ill advised/prohibited. Unable so far to get AN flush head screws long enough, for bolt through, for the hinges on the tail surfaces. We bought those great aluminum hinges in Broadhead. What are fellow builders using for this application? In the event of a mishap, I'm concerned of the area to locate a tie down point for seatbelts. Is there an engineering point of view, concerning height, angle, distance, load factor? Don't want to have a cable back to the tail that might act as a strangle hold on the Pilot in an accident. Perhaps if the fuselage was to break up that bad, the seat belt would be the lease of an issue. LOL Well, Thank You in advance for any advice! Happy New Years & Blue Skies Marc Dumay Chatham,On ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:03 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Mike, Does the bead rolling happen before bending the eyebrow? Did you use welding rod as wire? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? I don't know what Barry did, but I used my bead roller to start the roll, put the wire in and then used the bead roller to continue the roll around the wire. The last bit was some hammer forming. I did try it with just a hammer and it can be done, it's just more work. Mike Groah Tulare CA _____ From: Jeff Boatright Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 8:15:24 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:06 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Centre wing section & fuel tank Marc, My center section is built (more or less) to plans, with 1/8" plywood on the bottom and sides of ribs. One of the few changes I made was to push the ribs outboard as far as they would go, gaining room for a couple more gallons. I don't have experience with fiberglass, nor have I built the tank, yet, so I'll someone else chime in on that. I agree with you about the seat belts and shoulder harness. To me, the seat belt needs to hold you in in rough air, and the occasional, mis-managed roll or loop. Both need to keep your head out of the instrument panel and supported in case of a nose-over, etc. Keeping in mind, that, no matter what system you devise, it's still, after all, a wooden structure. Added to my fuselage, just under the pilot's seat, are oak blocks, faced with 1/8" plywood and epoxied to the sides and framing members. The seatbelt attach fits thru a slot in the sides of the seat and is thru-bolted with 5/16" bolts. A similar set up attaches the pilot's harness at the two corners of the tray. As you say, if the fuse breaks up that bad, I have more to worry about. After slotting for the Vi Kapler hinges, I epoxied the hinges in place and attached with stainless, flathead screws and fibered lock nuts. Yes, I used stainless! Are they as strong as their AN counterparts? I doubt it, but to what degree? If those things rip out, I'm probably in an inverted spin and headed for eternal Pietenpol flying in the Here After! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Dumay Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Centre wing section & fuel tank Fellow builders and mentors, Happy Holidays What thickness of plywood is being used on the sides of the ribs on the top centre section and bottom, holding the fuel tank? Any advantages or cons between making an aluminum tank or fibreglass one? Excluding the talents of the fabricator. Would you hold more fuel or less with one over the other? Drain fittings and fill connections, are they problem free over time in a fibreglass tank? Those of you, who make your control horns out of one piece instead of two welded together, what thickness of 4130 are you using? Is it necessary to roll the edges, or the thickness takes all into account? Any suggestions on part # and supplier that are being used for bearings on the bell crank and main control tubing? Does the use of bearings, instead of the fabricated ones from the Piet drawing's, give you a smoother feel for the flight controls? I have read that stainless bolts are ill advised/prohibited. Unable so far to get AN flush head screws long enough, for bolt through, for the hinges on the tail surfaces. We bought those great aluminum hinges in Broadhead. What are fellow builders using for this application? In the event of a mishap, I'm concerned of the area to locate a tie down point for seatbelts. Is there an engineering point of view, concerning height, angle, distance, load factor? Don't want to have a cable back to the tail that might act as a strangle hold on the Pilot in an accident. Perhaps if the fuselage was to break up that bad, the seat belt would be the lease of an issue. LOL Well, Thank You in advance for any advice! Happy New Years & Blue Skies Marc Dumay Chatham,On ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:53 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Hope my sketch will help. (see attachment) I will not be near a computer until Teusday next week, so if you have any questions, I can reply then. Happy New Year to ALL Barry Davis NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:15 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Is there a write-up somewhere on how to make them with the wire rolled in the edges? >--> > >Yep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do. >Barry -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? From: Rick Holland Looks nice Barry, did you use the 12 plate stock coolers? Rick On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Barry Davis wrote: > This is our installation on the Big Piets. I will post another pic in > greater detail, but you can see some in this pic. There is an extension out > the back of the eyebrow that sends air down thru the oil cooler in the stock > location which keeps everything very simple. 4 of the 6 Big Piets are flying > and some have acculimated about 25 hours. Cooling has not been a concern at > all with this setup. > I'll take a more detailed pic after the holidays. > Barry Davis > NX973BP > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Groah > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:28 AM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? > > > For those Piets with Corvairs..... > > Have any of you Corvair powered Pieters remote mounted your oil cooler? If > so where did you put it and how did you mount it/duct air to it? I have > some ideas and concept sketches but I figured I'd see what others are doing > before I reinvent everything. > > Mike Groah > Tulare CA > > Sprayed a coat of clear on my cockpit today and welded up my intake > manifold. > Tomorrow: Prep engine cooling scoops, intake, battery box, and probably > some other items for paint. > > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section covering From: Rick Holland When covering the bottom of your center section did you glue the fabric to the entire plywood surface and end ribs or just to the end ribs? thanks rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:24 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Gussets Working on the fuselage sides and have glued the rear six gussets (top and bottom) on the outside. Just want to be sure I should glue the rear gussets on the inside before joining sides with the horizontal cross members. IE, the cross members will butt up against the inside gussets. Thanks, Jack DSM ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:20 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Gussets Boy, Jack- it sure looks like it to me. The note on the side view says "gusset plates on both sides of longeron", which means the joints are trapped between gussets both inside and outside. That would mean that the crosspieces would butt up against the inside gussets unless you notched the gussets to allow the crosspieces to butt against the longerons directly. And that may be the answer... notch the inside gussets so that the crosspieces hit solid wood and not plywood. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:17 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section covering Rick; Per the Poly-Fiber covering manual, where the fabric goes on the butt rib it should be cemented but on the rest of it, not. Pg. 18 of the manual, dealing with wing covering (but it gets more general), says "Brush two coats of thinned Poly-Brush onto the leading edge to provide a "bedding" that will help adhesion and reduce the possibility of pinholes in the finish coat. Actually, all large metal, wood, or fiberglass parts that will be covered with fabric should get these two coats of Poly-Brush." After the fabric goes over those two dried coats and you start to wet it out with the Poly-Brush over the fabric, it will soften the underlying coats and adhere the fabric to the wood. But as I read the manual, the part that overlaps the butt ribs should be cemented down with Poly-Tak. If you're using the equivalent Stewart system, same thing should apply. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:04 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood gear The lower block IS straight as you suggest, it only points at the tailwheel because of the geometry of the gear. It is easier to see once you start it than to describe, but the side vee pieces are on a flat plane, as is the block. The block is parallel with the ground and square with it when the aircraft is sitting three-point, and points inward and aft because the rear leg of the gear is shorter than the forward. Again, it is easier to see once you start on it. You do not have to do anything to it to make it point at the tailwheel. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear Still trying to decide between the wood gear and cub style. My question about the wood gear is, what is the importance of the lower block aiming at the tailwheel? I don't get it. Couldn't it just be straight? Wouldn't that make things simpler to build? I'm not trying to go against tradition or originality, but I just don't understand why this is important. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks, Tom B. www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:19 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Mike, My Piet variant had a second Corvair oil cooler mounted to the firewall with a 2" SCAT tube run to it, in addition to the stock oil cooler on the engine. Never had an excessive oil temp with that set-up and it was easy to plumb. Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA Michael Groah wrote: > > For those Piets with Corvairs..... > > Have any of you Corvair powered Pieters remote mounted your oil > cooler? If so where did you put it and how did you mount it/duct air > to it? I have some ideas and concept sketches but I figured I'd see > what others are doing before I reinvent everything. > > Mike Groah > Tulare CA > > Sprayed a coat of clear on my cockpit today and welded up my intake > manifold. > Tomorrow: Prep engine cooling scoops, intake, battery box, and > probably some other items for paint. > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:31 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Gussets I looked at that on the plans in the Flying and Glider Manual, too, and see what you see. I would be hesitant to notch out the gusset so the cross members would sit flush against the longerons - I think that would severely compromise the structure. Either the cross pieces butt up against the gusset OR (and I think I inferred this from one of Jack's or Gene's comments) the gussets go on the outside of the fuselage and thin stringers are applied to the outside of the longerons to account for the extra material at the cross piece/longeron joints. Again, the same warning as before - my opinion is worth bupkus since I'm not a builder (and I haven't been out to the airport for a couple of weeks). Dan Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Boy, Jack- it sure looks like it to me. The note on > the side view says "gusset plates on both sides of > longeron", which means the joints are trapped between > gussets both inside and outside. That would mean that > the crosspieces would butt up against the inside > gussets unless you notched the gussets to allow the > crosspieces to butt against the longerons directly. And > that may be the answer... notch the inside gussets so > that the crosspieces hit solid wood and not plywood. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:47 PM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Yes we used welding rod for the wire since it was handy and a nice straight piece to start with. We formed the edge first and then curved the panel i nto the scoop shape. =0A=0AIf you have a bead roller then the process is p retty quick. You just start the roll with a narrow die, put the wire in an d then use the die to work the metal over the wire in stages until it's all the way around the wire. You can do the same with a pair of pliers and a hammer. Use some vice grips to keep the wire in position and then start th e metal over the wire with the pliers and work it around the wire with the hammer. Either will give you the same results. I just found it faster an d easier since I had a Pexto bead roller on hand to use it. It is nice to h ave tools!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0AFrom: Gary Boothe =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics. com=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 2009 9:17:16 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List : Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A =0AMike,=0A =0ADoes the bead rol ling happen before=0Abending the eyebrow? Did you use welding rod as wire? =0A =0AGary Boothe=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion,=0Amount ed=0ATail=0Adone, Fuselage on gear=0A(16 ribs down)=0A=0A_________ _______________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.co m=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah=0ASent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009=0A9:04 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@ matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List:=0ACorvair Piet Oil Cooler loca tions?=0A =0AI don't know what Barry did, but I used my bead roller to star t the=0Aroll, put the wire in and then used the bead roller to continue the roll around=0Athe wire. The last bit was some hammer forming. I did try it with=0Ajust a hammer and it can be done, it's just more work. =0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:Jef f Boatright=0A=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent : Wed, December 30, 2009=0A8:15:24 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List:=0ACorv air Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A =0Awww.aeroelectric.co m=0Awww.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Li =========================0A ==================0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:03 PM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Thanks Darrel. I think what I'm going to do is mount an oil cooler under the engine with an opening directing air into it. This should work out to be above and forward of the carb air inlet. Peter Johnson did something similar, but I will tuck mine further back so it's inside the cowling more. I guess I won't know for sure how it will all work out until I get to work on the cowling. That should happen in the next month or two. I'll send pics when that starts to take shape. ________________________________ From: Darrel Jones Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 7:55:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Mike, My Piet variant had a second Corvair oil cooler mounted to the firewall with a 2" SCAT tube run to it, in addition to the stock oil cooler on the engine. Never had an excessive oil temp with that set-up and it was easy to plumb. Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA Michael Groah wrote: > > For those Piets with Corvairs..... > Have any of you Corvair powered Pieters remote mounted your oil cooler? If so where did you put it and how did you mount it/duct air to it? I have some ideas and concept sketches but I figured I'd see what others are doing before I reinvent everything. > Mike Groah > Tulare CA > > Sprayed a coat of clear on my cockpit today and welded up my intake manifold. Tomorrow: Prep engine cooling scoops, intake, battery box, and probably some other items for paint. > > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:28 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Mike, I used a standard Earls cooler. You may be able to get a longer, narrower one that will have the same area but less cowling intrusion. Cheers Peter From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Thursday, 31 December 2009 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Thanks Darrel. I think what I'm going to do is mount an oil cooler under the engine with an opening directing air into it. This should work out to be above and forward of the carb air inlet. Peter Johnson did something similar, but I will tuck mine further back so it's inside the cowling more. I guess I won't know for sure how it will all work out until I get to work on the cowling. That should happen in the next month or two. I'll send pics when that starts to take shape. _____ From: Darrel Jones Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 7:55:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Mike, My Piet variant had a second Corvair oil cooler mounted to the firewall with a 2" SCAT tube run to it, in addition to the stock oil cooler on the engine. Never had an excessive oil temp with that set-up and it was easy to plumb. Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA Michael Groah wrote: > > For those Piets with Corvairs..... > Have any of you Corvair powered Pieters remote mounted your oil cooler? If so where did you put it and how did you mount it/duct air to it? I have some ideas and concept sketches but I figured I'd see what others are doing before I reinvent everything. > Mike Groah > Tulare CA > > Sprayed a coat of clear on my cockpit today and welded up my intake manifold. Tomorrow: Prep engine cooling scoops, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.