---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/02/10: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:28 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (airlion) 2. 08:32 AM - Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company (airlion) 3. 08:34 AM - Re: Bend in push pull tube (Steve Ruse) 4. 08:49 AM - Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) (Glenn Thomas) 5. 09:11 AM - Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company (Gary Boothe) 6. 09:23 AM - Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company (amsafetyc@aol.com) 7. 09:46 AM - Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) (Jack) 8. 10:31 AM - Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) (K5YAC) 9. 10:52 AM - Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) (Glenn Thomas) 10. 11:33 AM - Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) (Ben Charvet) 11. 12:01 PM - Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) (K5YAC) 12. 12:12 PM - Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) (Glenn Thomas) 13. 01:11 PM - Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company (Peter W Johnson) 14. 02:09 PM - Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company (Gary Boothe) 15. 03:47 PM - Re: Bend in push pull tube (Michael Perez) 16. 04:49 PM - Re: Bend in push pull tube (Gary Boothe) 17. 05:23 PM - Making "Wire Edges" (Gary Boothe) 18. 05:24 PM - Re: Bend in push pull tube (VAHOWDY@aol.com) 19. 06:47 PM - Re: Bend in push pull tube (Michael Perez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:48 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? Thanks for the reply Shad. If I taxi onthe ground for about 30 minutes the oil temp gets up to about 245 and then I shut down for a while. I too have a very slow seep from the back of the oil pan. Happy New Year, Gardiner ________________________________ From: shad bell Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:56:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? I am not positive,(with out looking at the gauge in front of me), In flight in 85-90 degree weather it runs about 220-230 degrees, measured at the bottom of the oil pan. Ground run temp is quite less, as I don't typically run more than a 5 min warm up time. We use Shell Rotella T 15-40 and have no problems with it. The only annoying issue we have is a very slow "seap" from the back of the oil pan when the oil is warm and the airplane is in a 3 point stance. We might have to take the pan off before next spring and put a new gasket on with some permatex gasket sealer to stop the driping. Hope this helps Shad --- On Fri, 1/1/10, airlion wrote: >From: airlion >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 9:32 AM > > > > >Shad, What temps are you getting on the ground and in flight? Gardiner Mason > > ________________________________ From: shad bell >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 10:11:29 PM >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? > > >NX92GB has the 12 plate corvair cooler mounted at the stock corvair location. We originally had the 8? plate cooler and it ran a little to high on the oil temp. No problems with the 12 plate cooler. Another thing to consider is where you measure oil temp, you get drastic differences. >> >>Shad > > > > >ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com >/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com >ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com >w target=_blank>www.howtocrimp.com >llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:22 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight a nd ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: Gary Boothe =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Compa ny=0A=0A =0AMany, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!=0A =0A =0AStar ting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodelguess=0Athat=99ll sl ow me down a bit=0A =0AGary Boothe=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Co rvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail done, Fuselage on=0Agear=0A(16 ribs down ) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:18 AM PST US From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube Another thing to consider is the effect of repeated bending on that push ro d at the bend. =C2-Eventually that rod will weaken from fatigue. =C2-I don't know enough to tell you how to calculate when it would fail from fat igue, but eventually it probably would. =C2-It might be after 100hrs or 100,000hrs, I have no idea. =C2-It will depend on the bend angle, stick forces, etc. One elegant way to deal with this broblem is to put a bearing where you nee d the bend and attach two pushrods to it, one on each side, so you have tra nslational motion on the first pushrod, purely rotational motion around the bearing, and then purely translational motion in a new direction via the second pushrod. =C2-I don't know what that is called, but you see it a lot on old warbirds, and you can change the direction of the pushrod to an y angle you want with no concerns about durability. Steve Ruse Norman, OK -- Sent from my Palm Pr=C4=93 David Paule wrote: A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod. =C2- The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column bending" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a simple column. =C2- For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better references is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy. Othe rwise the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's a bit more difficult to use. =C2- But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground. If you can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or collapsin g the tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the real airplane. Try it on a mockpit with test hardware, not flight hardware. =C2- David Paule =C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator push/pull tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would like to put about a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the seat.=C2- Is this a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the contr ol system? It seems more then strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I hav e been wrong before. Thanks. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) From: "Glenn Thomas" A bunch of people have emailed me over the past year letting me know that the builders directory on my site couldn't be updated. Another email came in this morning so I took the 10 minutes that it required to make some changes ...and it's working again. FYI It's a helpful resource to find out who in your area is building a Pietenpol and getting in touch with them. http://www.flyingwood.com/Directory.asp DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279758#279758 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:54 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Gardiner, It is set for 4" back, now. I have a little room to move forward, if necessary, but I hope I don't have to. Those diagonal braces get their fittings today. The upper fittings would need to be remade for any changes. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight and ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner _____ From: Gary Boothe Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!! Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodel.guess that'll slow me down a bit. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:19 AM PST US From: amsafetyc@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company well I just did my update. Pretty easy and painless. now back to buildapalooza the clock is ticking towards my completion date. I just hads a visit from my tech counselor as the 2009 year end inspection , He seemed less happy this time. I suspect because I am using ideas that were not his recommendation. But he's did not build a Piet, he built a Mustang kit so I suspect there are few similarities. This is the same guy who told me to avoidd Stewart systems covering only to find out the word of mouth eval was from another builder that did a poor cover job with it. He also told me that he wouldn't fly behind an inspected and rebuilt engine that was involved in a prop strike incident (tall grass). Oh well to each his own I suppose. John Do not archive In a message dated 1/2/2010 11:37:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, airlion@bellsouth.net writes: Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight and ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner ____________________________________ From: Gary Boothe Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!! Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodelguess that=99l l slow me down a bit Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:02 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) Glenn, A great resource, thanks! Great 2010 to you! Jack DSM Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) From: "K5YAC" Thanks for fixing the site Glenn... I have been wanting to add myself for a while. Quite a list of Pieters there. Question... most of the list entries have a stock image (see below), but a few (Jack Phillips, P.F. Beck, Jack Textor), have added a photo. Is it still possible to do that? If so, how? Thanks again! -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279775#279775 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/vectorpiet_147.gif ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) From: "Glenn Thomas" Reason for the stock image... The site was made a week or so before the annual Pietenpol gathering a few years ago so that people from the list could find each other. This was back before Doc Mosher had resurrected the BPA and started making nametags. Rather than have blank space I simply filled it in with the stock image if you never sent me a photo. If you or anybody wants their picture uploaded it's still a fairly manual process and I haven't spent the time to make it self-service. If you send me a picture you'd like to see with your directory entry as an email attachment, I'll upload it to the site. It might not happen immediately, but I will try and load it within a day or 2. Thanks DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279779#279779 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:09 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) Glenn Thomas wrote: > > A bunch of people have emailed me over the past year letting me know that the builders directory on my site couldn't be updated. Another email came in this morning so I took the 10 minutes that it required to make some changes ...and it's working again. FYI > > It's a helpful resource to find out who in your area is building a Pietenpol and getting in touch with them. > > http://www.flyingwood.com/Directory.asp > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279758#279758 > > > Thanks, I updated my status. How do you post a picture? > Ben Charvet > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) From: "K5YAC" Glenn Thomas wrote: > Reason for the stock image... The site was made a week or so before the annual Pietenpol gathering a few years ago so that people from the list could find each other. This was back before Doc Mosher had resurrected the BPA and started making nametags. Rather than have blank space I simply filled it in with the stock image if you never sent me a photo. > > If you or anybody wants their picture uploaded it's still a fairly manual process and I haven't spent the time to make it self-service. If you send me a picture you'd like to see with your directory entry as an email attachment, I'll upload it to the site. It might not happen immediately, but I will try and load it within a day or 2. > > Thanks > > DO NOT ARCHIVE -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279787#279787 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) From: "Glenn Thomas" If you'd like a picture in your directory listing just email it to glennthomas@flyingwood.com. I think Matronics automatically changes the "at" symbol to make the email unusable. You can fix it yourself or use the email link at the bottom of the home page of http://www.flyingwood.com -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279788#279788 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:21 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Gary, I made and installed my windscreens and cockpit covers before I did a weight and balance (duh). After the weight & balance I made to move the wing back and that necessitated new holes for the control cables and struts and I had to relocate the windscreen. 4 inches sounds like a good start but a quick weight and balance check before the windscreens and fuse covers go on is a good idea. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2010 4:11 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Gardiner, It is set for 4" back, now. I have a little room to move forward, if necessary, but I hope I don't have to. Those diagonal braces get their fittings today. The upper fittings would need to be remade for any changes. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight and ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner _____ From: Gary Boothe Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!! Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodel.guess that'll slow me down a bit. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:29 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Good advice! Thanks Peter. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:10 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Gary, I made and installed my windscreens and cockpit covers before I did a weight and balance (duh). After the weight & balance I made to move the wing back and that necessitated new holes for the control cables and struts and I had to relocate the windscreen. 4 inches sounds like a good start but a quick weight and balance check before the windscreens and fuse covers go on is a good idea. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2010 4:11 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Gardiner, It is set for 4" back, now. I have a little room to move forward, if necessary, but I hope I don't have to. Those diagonal braces get their fittings today. The upper fittings would need to be remade for any changes. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight and ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner _____ From: Gary Boothe Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!! Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodel.guess that'll slow me down a bit. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:01 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube I was planning on doing the "typical" pivot/idler arm=C2-behind the seat, but with my lowered seat bottom, that puts the arm under the seat and hang ing below, past the bottom of the fuselage. I can get it figured out, what I need to do is make/install the elevator bell crank in the fuselage and wo rk=C2-towards the seat from the stick and the crank. =C2- =C2- Steve, if you have a picture or drawing of the bearing deal you mentioned, I would appreciate a look see. --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Steve Ruse wrote: From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube Another thing to consider is the effect of repeated bending on that push ro d at the bend. =C2-Eventually that rod will weaken from fatigue. =C2-I don't know enough to tell you how to calculate when it would fail from fati gue, but eventually it probably would. =C2-It might be after 100hrs or 10 0,000hrs, I have no idea. =C2-It will depend on the bend angle, stick for ces, etc. One elegant way to deal with this broblem is to put a bearing where you nee d the bend and attach two pushrods to it, one on each side, so you have tra nslational motion on the first pushrod, purely rotational motion around the bearing, and then purely translational motion in a new direction via the s econd pushrod. =C2-I don't know what that is called, but you see it a lot on old warbirds, and you can change the direction of the pushrod to any an gle you want with no concerns about durability. Steve Ruse Norman, OK -- Sent from my Palm Pr=C4=93 David Paule wrote: A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod. =C2- The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column be nding" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a simple c olumn. =C2- For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better re ferences is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy. Otherw ise the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's a bit mo re difficult to use. =C2- But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground. If y ou can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or collapsing the tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the real airplane. Try it on a mockpit with test hardware, not flight hardware. =C2- David Paule =C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator push/pu ll tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would like to put abo ut a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the seat.=C2- Is this a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the control system? It seems more the n strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I have been wrong before. Thanks. ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List com tronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:16 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube Michael, Here are some pics of my idler arm. My seat bottom is framed per plans. The push/pull rod travels up and down at the idler arm, approximately =BE=94. Just a thought=85if you ran two stringers along the bottom of your fuse, beyond the seat bottom, you could easily pick up another 1=94 of clearance. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down=85) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube I was planning on doing the "typical" pivot/idler arm behind the seat, but with my lowered seat bottom, that puts the arm under the seat and hanging below, past the bottom of the fuselage. I can get it figured out, what I need to do is make/install the elevator bell crank in the fuselage and work towards the seat from the stick and the crank. Steve, if you have a picture or drawing of the bearing deal you mentioned, I would appreciate a look see. --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Steve Ruse wrote: From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube Another thing to consider is the effect of repeated bending on that push rod at the bend. Eventually that rod will weaken from fatigue. I don't know enough to tell you how to calculate when it would fail from fatigue, but eventually it probably would. It might be after 100hrs or 100,000hrs, I have no idea. It will depend on the bend angle, stick forces, etc. One elegant way to deal with this broblem is to put a bearing where you need the bend and attach two pushrods to it, one on each side, so you have translational motion on the first pushrod, purely rotational motion around the bearing, and then purely translational motion in a new direction via the second pushrod. I don't know what that is called, but you see it a lot on old warbirds, and you can change the direction of the pushrod to any angle you want with no concerns about durability. Steve Ruse Norman, OK -- Sent from my Palm Pr=E7 _____ David Paule wrote: A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod. The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column bending" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a simple column. For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better references is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy. Otherwise the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's a bit more difficult to use. But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground. If you can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or collapsing the tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the real airplane. Try it on a mockpit with test hardware, not flight hardware. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator push/pull tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would like to put about a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the seat. Is this a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the control system? It seems more then strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I have been wrong before. Thanks. ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List com tronics.com/contribution " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:51 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making "Wire Edges" Group, I recently asked the group about making wire edges for the front of the cooling eyebrows. A number of responses came back (frankly, I lost track of who said what), but I decided to try a scrap piece out of 25 ga. 6061. Obviously, I'll be a little more sophisticated about the bending process. This little sample took no more than 10 minutes, and was my first attempt. (attachments are not in order) Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:03 PM PST US From: VAHOWDY@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube Building my scout I had to route cables this way to stop any interference. My elevator cables do not rub, but had to use a double horn. string is to check alignment ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:03 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube I thought of that as well Gary. I can get it done, just need to take the ti me to do it. --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube Michael, =C2- Here are some pics of my idler arm. My seat bottom is framed per plans. The push/pull rod travels up and down at the idler arm, approximately =C2=BE =9D. =C2- Just a thoughtif you ran two stringers along the bottom of your fu se, beyond the seat bottom, you could easily pick up another 1=9D of clearance. =C2- Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear (16 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube =C2- I was planning on doing the "typical" pivot/idler arm=C2-behind the seat, but with my lowered seat bottom, that puts the arm under the seat and hang ing below, past the bottom of the fuselage. I can get it figured out, what I need to do is make/install the elevator bell crank in the fuselage and wo rk=C2-towards the seat from the stick and the crank. =C2- =C2- Steve, if you have a picture or drawing of the bearing deal you mentioned, I would appreciate a look see. --- On Sat, 1/2/10, Steve Ruse wrote: From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube Another thing to consider is the effect of repeated bending on that push ro d at the bend. =C2-Eventually that rod will weaken from fatigue. =C2-I don't know enough to tell you how to calculate when it would fail from fati gue, but eventually it probably would. =C2-It might be after 100hrs or 10 0,000hrs, I have no idea. =C2-It will depend on the bend angle, stick for ces, etc. One elegant way to deal with this broblem is to put a bearing where you nee d the bend and attach two pushrods to it, one on each side, so you have tra nslational motion on the first pushrod, purely rotational motion around the bearing, and then purely translational motion in a new direction via the s econd pushrod. =C2-I don't know what that is called, but you see it a lot on old warbirds, and you can change the direction of the pushrod to any an gle you want with no concerns about durability. Steve Ruse Norman , OK -- Sent from my Palm Pr=C4=93 David Paule wrote: A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod. =C2- The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column be nding" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a simple c olumn. =C2- For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better re ferences is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy. Otherw ise the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's a bit mo re difficult to use. =C2- But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground. If y ou can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or collapsing the tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the real airplane. Try it on a mockpit with test hardware, not flight hardware. =C2- David Paule =C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube =C2- To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator push/pu ll tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would like to put abo ut a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the seat.=C2- Is this a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the control system? It seems more the n strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I have been wrong before. 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