---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/04/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:51 AM - Re: 3 years in the making (K5YAC) 2. 10:23 AM - Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size (Bill Church) 3. 11:26 AM - Re: Sky scout w/b (Dave Aldrich) 4. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size (Michael Perez) 5. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size (shad bell) 6. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size (Ben Charvet) 7. 06:46 PM - Re: Sky scout w/b (Dick N) 8. 06:46 PM - Sun n Fun (Dick N) 9. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size (Tim Willis) 10. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size (Michael Perez) 11. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size (Michael Perez) 12. 10:40 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (Rob Stapleton) 13. 11:52 PM - Re: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size (Tim Willis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:47 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 3 years in the making From: "K5YAC" Way to go John! A milestone for sure! I am getting cabin fever down here. I was able to get into the hangar last Friday to do some work on my cables, but this week they are calling for wind, snow and highs in the teens. In addition to that, the stuff that I really need to get done requires some glue, which I can't even attempt to do until it warms up some. :-( I guess I'll continue to look for metal working projects (control horns, hinges, etc.) whenever I can stand to be in the hangar. Thank goodness for all this global warming, eh? Good deal on the progress! -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280025#280025 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size From: "Bill Church" Michael, I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be streamline tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just fine. Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a thick bar to avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being streamlined is to reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside the fuselage. My guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on hand, since it's such a short piece needed. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#280056 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:45 AM PST US From: Dave Aldrich Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky scout w/b In theory, a CG between 15-20" from the LE on a 5 ft (60 inch) wing would give you a range of 25-33% Mean Aerodynamic Chord (MAC) and that really is the critical number. Those numbers are a good range for almost ANY aircraft unless flight tests allow for a larger range. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:48 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size Thank you Bill. I was thinking the same exact thing...using round. I was th inking of using flat, then weld a "rib/spine" on it for the flexing, but th at would be heavy and a lot of fooling around when using a tube is so easy. --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size > Michael, I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be stre amline tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just fine. Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a th ick bar to avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being str eamlined is to reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside the fuselage. My guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on ha nd, since it's such a short piece needed. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#280056 le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:52 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size I think the streamlined tube is critical, the airfoil on it must be a naca 1414......just kidding around, round tube should work fine.- I believe da d used a scrap from my Jungster project theat had a little rust on it, clea ned it painted it and -wa la.- I don't know what size the plans call fo r, but I would guess 3/4" round tube .049" wall thikness would be plenty st rong enough. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:58 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size I went ahead and bought a short length of the specified airfoil tubing. If you decide to use round tubing, be sure to select a diameter large enough to accommodate the axle that has to go through it, without being structurally weak. It could ruin your whole day if that thing failed. Ben Charvet > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:59 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky scout w/b Tom Yes, for a lack of anything better to do on these cold winter nights I am working on another project. I have a set of wing ribs, a jig fot the tail feathers and am going thru left over parts from other projects. If I can't find another project for the Sun n Fun tent, I will bring along something to build. I am still hard at work mainly at completing the Volmer Sportsman Amphib and only doing small stuff on the Sky Scout, Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:06 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky scout w/b Dick - sorry to hijack your post here but have you started the scout project now? Tom B. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: horzpool@goldengate.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky scout w/b Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 21:29:32 -0600 A question for Sky Scout builders. Does that model use the same numbers, 15-20" aft LE of wing for CG range? I am building from the Flying Glider Manual plans and havent seen that point discussed there. Dick N. st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List onics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:59 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Now that we are past the first of the year and Sun n Fun is about 97 days away, it's time again for me to ask if anyone has a project they would like to have jump started. Several of us here on the list gather each year to demonstrate wood building at the show. You would have help from several experienced builders and take home parts that would leave you far ahead on your building. In the past, I have received big help with my projects. We built a set of wings for Skip Gadd, a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and various projects for others. I don't have anything definite yet for this year and if you would like to make some big progress on your project in 1 week, contact me off list and I will fill you in on what to expect and what you will need. Dick N. horzpool@goldengate.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:24 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size Michael, I sent you a pic a while back, but no dimensions of my elevator idler bellcrank. In fact, I made it from streamline tubing, and would again, but its shape is no longer "streamline." It started as streamline tubing 2.25" long axis with about 1.00" outside across. I squeezed it uniformly to make it 2.50" long and 0.75" across. This made an oval tubing section about 4 inches tall. Then I cut notches in the top and cross-drilled holes up there. Now bearing ends can fit into those slots. At the top then, are the tubes from the yoke and from the main elevator bellcrank. The bearings themselves are trapped by the tubing, with a bolt through the tubing and the bearing center, as you might expect. When all was done, I had room for the bearing ends inside the length of tubing, with room to spare. At the base I have a piece of half-inch round tubing welded going crossways, mounted between two ball bearings and heavy aluminum (extruded) angles. It is all very smooth and rigid. Corky told me to widen the footprint of this apparatus and make it more rigid than his prototype, and I did. It is overkill, but I like it. I think Dick N. used a piece of rectangular tubing in the same way on one of his Piets, and I would have too, if I had seen his design first and had the tubing handy. As with much else on Piets, I used what I had, without cutting corners on specs of materials, strength, or quality. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez Sent: Jan 4, 2010 4:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size Thank you Bill. I was thinking the same exact thing...using round. I was thinking of using flat, then weld a "rib/spine" on it for the flexing, but that would be heavy and a lot of fooling around when using a tube is so easy. --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size Michael, I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be streamline tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just fine. Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a thick bar to avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being streamlined is to reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside the fuselage. My guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on hand, since it's such a short piece needed. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#28005= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Na======================== wrote: From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size et> Michael, I sent you a pic a while back, but no dimensions of my elevator id ler bellcrank.- In fact, I made it from streamline tubing, and would again, but its shape i s no longer "streamline."- It started as streamline tubing 2.25" long axi s with about 1.00" outside across.- I squeezed it uniformly to make it 2. 50" long and 0.75" across.- This made an oval tubing section about 4 inch es tall.- Then I cut notches in the top and cross-drilled holes up there.- Now bear ing ends can fit into those slots.- At the top then, are the tubes from t he yoke and from the main elevator bellcrank. The bearings themselves are t rapped by the tubing, with a bolt through the tubing and the bearing center , as you might expect.- When all was done, I had room for the bearing ends inside the length of tub ing, with room to spare.---At the base I have a piece of half-inch ro und tubing welded going crossways, mounted between two ball bearings and he avy aluminum (extruded) angles.- It is all very smooth and rigid.- Corky told me to widen the footprint of this apparatus and make it more rigid than his prototype, and I did.- It is overkill, but I like it. I think Dick N. used a piece of rectangular tubing in the same way on one o f his Piets, and I would have too, if I had seen his design first and had t he tubing handy.- As with much else on Piets, I used what I had, without cutting corners on specs of materials, strength, or quality. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez Sent: Jan 4, 2010 4:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size Thank you Bill. I was thinking the same exact thing...using round. I was th inking of using flat, then weld a "rib/spine" on it for the flexing, but th at would be heavy and a lot of fooling around when using a tube is so easy. --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size > Michael, I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be stre amline tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just fine. Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a th ick bar to avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being str eamlined is to reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside the fuselage. My guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on ha nd, since it's such a short piece needed. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#28005=- - - - - - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Na================ ======== wrote: From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size I went ahead and bought a short length of the specified airfoil tubing.- If you decide to use round tubing, be sure to select a diameter large enoug h to accommodate the axle that has to go through it, without being structur ally weak.- It could ruin your whole day if that thing failed. Ben Charvet > le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:08 PM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Nice, but I will have defer to the Russian expression: " God is high above and the Czar is far, far, away" so am I in Anchorage, AK! Good thought though! RS Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, AK (907) 230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 4:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Now that we are past the first of the year and Sun n Fun is about 97 days away, it's time again for me to ask if anyone has a project they would like to have jump started. Several of us here on the list gather each year to demonstrate wood building at the show. You would have help from several experienced builders and take home parts that would leave you far ahead on your building. In the past, I have received big help with my projects. We built a set of wings for Skip Gadd, a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and various projects for others. I don't have anything definite yet for this year and if you would like to make some big progress on your project in 1 week, contact me off list and I will fill you in on what to expect and what you will need. Dick N. horzpool@goldengate.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:49 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. 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