Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:07 AM - Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming (John Smoyer)
2. 05:34 AM - Re: Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming (wildhorsesracing)
3. 05:38 AM - Re: Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming (Jack Phillips)
4. 06:33 AM - Piet People near Austin & Replies to 50 Hour Report Post (kevinpurtee)
5. 08:22 AM - Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Bill Church)
6. 08:33 AM - Jim's Louisville visit (Douwe Blumberg)
7. 09:00 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Frank Metcalfe)
8. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Michael Perez)
9. 09:48 AM - Re: Piet People near Austin & Replies to 50 Hour Report Post (Ken Chambers)
10. 10:11 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (V Groah)
11. 10:33 AM - Motorcycle Link for Clevis (K5YAC)
12. 10:39 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (H RULE)
13. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Ryan Mueller)
14. 11:14 AM - While we are talking cables... (Michael Perez)
15. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Michael Perez)
16. 11:49 AM - tail bracing (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
17. 11:49 AM - Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis (Richard Schreiber)
18. 12:03 PM - Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis (K5YAC)
19. 12:24 PM - Re: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Dan Yocum)
20. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Michael Perez)
21. 12:49 PM - Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis (Bill Church)
22. 12:59 PM - Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis (K5YAC)
23. 12:59 PM - Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Bill Church)
24. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Dan Yocum)
25. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) (Ryan Mueller)
26. 04:08 PM - Re: Lee Bottom field.... (wayne@taildraggersinc.com)
27. 05:37 PM - Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis (Lagowski Morrow)
28. 06:51 PM - airworthiness papers display (Douwe Blumberg)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming |
By coaming, I mean the sheet metal that surrounds the instrument panel and the
cockpit, down to the upper longeron and back to the turtle deck. I thought of
covering the sharp edges of the sheet metal with Armaflex foam, as used to
insulate home water pipes, then wrapping the Armaflex with leather. Then I would
secure the leather and foam to the coaming with leather lacing.
I've made many trial attempts at wrapping the Armaflex, using scrap vinyl and cloth,
but the material bunches and pulls. I'm sure the wrapping material has
to be cut out on a curve, but I can't figure out what the curve should be. Any
suggestions among you guys? Any patterns available?
Thanks for your help.
John Smoyer
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming |
We have the same problem with Rollbar padding in racecars - the key is to cut little
triangles out of the backside of the foam padding that is on the inside
of the curve. It is similar to a woodworking technique called "kerfing".
Hope this helps!
-jim pantas
www.wildhorsesracing.com
________________________________
From: John Smoyer <mox499@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 7:06:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming
By coaming, I mean the sheet metal that surrounds the instrument panel and the
cockpit, down to the upper longeron and back to the turtle deck. I thought of
covering the sharp edges of the sheet metal with Armaflex foam, as used to
insulate home water pipes, then wrapping the Armaflex with leather. Then I would
secure the leather and foam to the coaming with leather lacing.
I've made many trial attempts at wrapping the Armaflex, using scrap vinyl and cloth,
but the material bunches and pulls. I'm sure the wrapping material has
to be cut out on a curve, but I can't figure out what the curve should be. Any
suggestions among you guys? Any patterns available?
Thanks for your help.
John Smoyer
Message 3
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| Subject: | Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming |
John,
That was one of the more difficult tasks on the airplane (ranking up
there
with making the landing gear struts and the windshield frames). I used
=BD=94
=93Funny pipe=94, which is black polyethylene tubing used in irrigation
systems
(you can buy it at Home Depot), and cut a lengthwise slit along the
tubing
that you can fit over the cut edge of the aluminum. Then put your
armaflex
foam over that. See where the foam ends when pushing the funny pipe
hard
against the aluminum to take up all the slop and then drill lacing holes
in
your aluminum, tight up against the foam.
Once that is done, you can take your leather and start in the middle of
the
cockpit cutout and begin lacing, using braided nylon twine. Once all
the
holes have been punched, take it all apart and trim your leather. My
wife
sewed a hem along the edge of the leather but that is probably not
necessary. Then do the final lacing with rawhide bootlaces. Pain in
the
rear!
Here are a couple of photos. One thing I didn=92t mention is that I
used a
piece of aluminum angle along the longeron to give support so you can
grip
the coaming and put weight on it when getting in and out of the
airplane.
You can see how this went together with the funny pipe and the foam in
the
first picture. The aluminum cowling is not shown, but would slip into
the
slit in the funny pipe alongside the aluminum angle.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Smoyer
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 7:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming
By coaming, I mean the sheet metal that surrounds the instrument panel
and
the cockpit, down to the upper longeron and back to the turtle deck. I
thought of covering the sharp edges of the sheet metal with Armaflex
foam,
as used to insulate home water pipes, then wrapping the Armaflex with
leather. Then I would secure the leather and foam to the coaming with
leather lacing.
I've made many trial attempts at wrapping the Armaflex, using scrap
vinyl
and cloth, but the material bunches and pulls. I'm sure the wrapping
material has to be cut out on a curve, but I can't figure out what the
curve should be. Any suggestions among you guys? Any patterns
available?
Thanks for your help.
John Smoyer
Message 4
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| Subject: | Piet People near Austin & Replies to 50 Hour Report Post |
Austinites - If there's a nice weekend when folks are available I'll bring it here
for show and tell. Let me know if there's interest. (I'm hoping to get a
local hangar someday so I can quit driving 3 hours to Houston to fly. Currently
on several waiting lists.)
Tim Willis - I'm the Aviation Safety Officer for TX Army Nat'l Guard and fly Apaches
for them. Call me when you'd like to get together: 512-422-6371.
Ken Chambers - See above. I love showing it off.
Speedbrake - (caution, editorial) we gotta get out & fly 'em when they're done.
Some guys don't do that. Sometimes those flights may be challenging and feel
like work. That's ok. Set limits, be smart, but go fly. That makes us better
pilots and proves the airplane. Respectfully submitted.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280348#280348
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
This is confusing.
You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading edge, and then you
say that you would just shim the horizontal stab at the leading edge and re-adjust
the cable tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going to need your
cables to adjust the leading edge.
Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable tensions will need to be
adjusted as well, since the cable attachment points are not the same as the stab
pivot point.
A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine tuning the tail incidence
, is achieved by simply adjusting the bracing cables, which DOES put a
slight twist into the horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably visually imperceptible
unless you're looking for it) - it is only for fine tuning.
So, the short answer to your original question:
"Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that conclusion.
There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are likely the most practical
solution. If you use a swaged stud with a threaded fork, it will look nice
and clean, but you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as you'll have
to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out the adjustment, then
pull the cable tight to re-insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly
- that you're planning to use a traditional method of fastening the fork,
with clevis pins). With turnbuckles, the tension adjustments are done with all
of the cables in place.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363
Message 6
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| Subject: | Jim's Louisville visit |
Hey Jim,
We are under two hours from downtown Louisville,(up 71 towards Cinci) and my Piet
is here at my studio. Might be a bit of a treck, but we'd feed you it you
think you can make it out.
Douwe
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Cowlings Big Piet Picture=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.c
om=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 2009 11:59:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List
: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A=0AI agree the engine looks great
Barry.- Do you have any cowling pics of your plane?- I'd like to see s
ome pics of how you did the cowling with the corvair and scoops.- My plan
has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (maybe under the engine) an
d thus I've made some cooling scoops already like you with the wired edge a
nd all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but it is easier with the ri
ght tools.)=0A=0AA big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call f
or assistance.- If anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mou
nted oil coolers or corvair cowls with the scoops, send them my way.- =0A
=0AThanks=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A(going to go help my father-in-law
work on his RV8A today, but I hope to get back in time to get a little Piet
work in today)=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Barry Davi
s <bed@mindspring.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, Dece
mber 30, 2009 8:01:44 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Co
ed@mindspring.com>=0A=0AYep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not
really very hard to do.=0ABarry =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: o
wner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff=0ABoatright=0ASent: Wednesday, Decembe
r 30, 2009 10:28 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Piete
npol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List messa
-========================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a direct quest
ion of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took Shad's email as meaning
, use the cables only to move the leading edge. That may not have been his
intent, so I asked. There was no mention-of shimming. No mention was made
about fine tuning either. I would not use the cables to adjust the leading
edge of anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the support.
It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well, that the cables wou
ld be adjusted to twist the thing.-I am not a fan of twist. I believe my
email explained itself quite well. Shim as needed, adjust cables to proper
tension/correct alignment.
-
"...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly - that you're pl
anning to use a traditional method of fastening the fork, with clevis pins)
. "
-
I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into the fork and hold
it there with thread.
-
As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
-
-
-
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
>
This is confusing.
You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading edge, and then
you say that you would just shim the horizontal stab at the leading edge an
d re-adjust the cable tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going
to need your cables to adjust the leading edge.
Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable tensions will need t
o be adjusted as well, since the cable attachment points are not the same a
s the stab pivot point.
A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine tuning the tai
l incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting the bracing cables, which DOE
S put a slight twist into the horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably v
isually imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for fine t
uning.
So, the short answer to your original question:
"Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that conclusion.
There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are likely the most p
ractical solution. If you use a swaged stud with a threaded fork, it will l
ook nice and clean, but you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as
you'll have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out the ad
justment, then pull the cable tight to re-With turnbuckles, the tension adj
ustments are done with all of the cables in place.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363
le, List Admin.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Piet People near Austin & Replies to 50 Hour Report |
Post
I'm open most weekends and I've love to hear her roar.
Ken
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:32 AM, kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>wrote:
> kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> Austinites - If there's a nice weekend when folks are available I'll bring
> it here for show and tell. Let me know if there's interest. (I'm hoping to
> get a local hangar someday so I can quit driving 3 hours to Houston to fly.
> Currently on several waiting lists.)
>
> Tim Willis - I'm the Aviation Safety Officer for TX Army Nat'l Guard and
> fly Apaches for them. Call me when you'd like to get together:
> 512-422-6371.
>
> Ken Chambers - See above. I love showing it off.
>
> Speedbrake - (caution, editorial) we gotta get out & fly 'em when they're
> done. Some guys don't do that. Sometimes those flights may be challenging
> and feel like work. That's ok. Set limits, be smart, but go fly. That
> makes us better pilots and proves the airplane. Respectfully submitted.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280348#280348
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 10
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| Subject: | Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Great looking plane! I like the cowling. Mike and I are working on our pl
ane together. It is really his plane but I have been caught up in the proj
ect as it is being built in my shop. He has asked me to start on the cowli
ng. My question is what kind of edge did you use in the opening around the
cooling scoops and intake manifold. Is that a wired edge=2C a hemmed edge
??? Also the front piece appears that it could be a compound formed piec
e or it could be coned like a funnel?? What ever you did it looks good. T
hanks so much for the help. Vic Groah
From: fmetcalf@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Cowlings Big Piet Picture
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 11:59:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I agree the engine looks great Barry. Do you have any cowling pics of your
plane? I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cowling with the corv
air and scoops. My plan has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (ma
ybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling scoops already like y
ou with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but
it is easier with the right tools.)
A big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance. I
f anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or
corvair cowls with the scoops=2C send them my way.
Thanks
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
(going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today=2C but I hope to
get back in time to get a little Piet work in today)
From: Barry Davis <bed@mindspring.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 8:01:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Yep=2C they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to d
o.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wednesday=2C December 30=2C 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
www.aeroelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List========
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
I've noticed that several people have used chain master links in place of clevises,
which are obviously plenty strong for the task, but I can't figure out what
series or type of chain these links are from. I run a 520 series chain on
my enduro motorcycle, which I believe is one of the largest of the motorcycle
varieties but the links that I've seen used in place of clevises are elongated,
and most likely not used on a motorcycle drive.
Anyone know whey type of chain these links are from, or where I can find some?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280389#280389
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Real nice looking Piet!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.
com=0ASent: Wed, January 6, 2010 11:59:02 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A=0ACowlings Big Piet Picture=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Michael Groah <dskogrover
@yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 20
09 11:59:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locat
ions?=0A=0A=0AI agree the engine looks great Barry.- Do you have any cowl
ing pics of your plane?- I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cow
ling with the corvair and scoops.- My plan has always been to remote moun
t the oil cooler (maybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling s
coops already like you with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not
that hard to do-but it is easier with the right tools.)=0A=0AA big thank yo
u to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance.- If anyone com
es up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or corvair cow
ls with the scoops, send them my way.- =0A=0AThanks=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATul
are CA=0A(going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today, but I h
ope to get back in time to get a little Piet work in today)=0A=0A=0A_______
_________________________=0AFrom: Barry Davis <bed@mindspring.com>=0ATo: pi
etenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 2009 8:01:44 AM=0ASubj
ect: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A--> Pieten
pol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>=0A=0AYep, th
ey have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do.=0ABarr
y =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matr
onics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeff=0ABoatright=0ASent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:28 AM=0ATo: piete
npol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Coo
roelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List========
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
One of the other things that I think Bill was pointing out in his post,
which I didn't catch on the first read through, is that if you are going to
adjust the tail by shimming the front of the horizontal stab you will then
have to adjust the tension for all of your empennage control cables. If you
raise the front of the stab, the upper elevator control horn attach points
are now slightly farther away from the bellcrank, and the lower attach
points are slightly closer. The rudder control cable would probably need a
bit of tweaking as well. Unless poor flying characteristics require you to
make gross adjustments by shimming the stab (and is there evidence that a
Piet built dimensionally to plans with the CG in the proper range is going
to need that?), it would be probably be easier and quicker to adjust a
couple cables via turnbuckles on the tail than it would be to install
different shims on the stab and have to readjust the tension on 6 control
cables....
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a direct
> question of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took Shad's email as
> meaning, use the cables only to move the leading edge. That may not have
> been his intent, so I asked. There was no mention of shimming. No mention
> was made about fine tuning either. I would not use the cables to adjust the
> leading edge of anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the
> support. It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well, that the
> cables would be adjusted to twist the thing. I am not a fan of twist. I
> believe my email explained itself quite well. Shim as needed, adjust cables
> to proper tension/correct alignment.
>
> "...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly - that you're
> planning to use a traditional method of fastening the fork, with clevis
> pins). "
>
> I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into the fork and hold
> it there with thread.
>
> As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
>
> billspiet@sympatico.ca<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>
> >
>
> This is confusing.
> You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading edge, and then
> you say that you would just shim the horizontal stab at the leading edge and
> re-adjust the cable tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going to
> need your cables to adjust the leading edge.
> Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable tensions will need
> to be adjusted as well, since the cable attachment points are not the same
> as the stab pivot point.
> A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine tuning the
> tail incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting the bracing cables, which
> DOES put a slight twist into the horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably
> visually imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for fine
> tuning.
>
> So, the short answer to your original question:
> "Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
> would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that conclusion.
>
> There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are likely the most
> practical solution. If you use a swaged stud with a threaded fork, it will
> look nice and clean, but you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as
> you'll have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out the
> adjustment, then pull the cable tight to re-With turnbuckles, the tension
> adjustments are done with all of the cables in place.
>
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#28036= - The
> Pietenpol-List Email Forum
> -http://www.matronics.com/Na=======================
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | While we are talking cables... |
I have seen in the archives that some use 1/16th cable for tail bracing. Fo
r those that are flying with it, are you happy? Any issues?-
-
To the rest of the list, do you all feel 1/16" cable is too small for contr
ol cable?
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
I concur.
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winde
d)
One of the other things that I think Bill was pointing out in his post, whi
ch I didn't catch on the first read through, is that if you are going to ad
just the tail by shimming the front of the horizontal stab you will then ha
ve to adjust the tension for all of your empennage control cables. If you r
aise the front of the stab, the upper elevator control horn attach points a
re now slightly farther away from the bellcrank, and the lower attach point
s are slightly closer. The rudder control cable would probably need a bit o
f tweaking as well. Unless poor flying characteristics require you to make
gross adjustments by shimming the stab (and is there evidence that a Piet b
uilt dimensionally to plans with the CG in the proper range is going to nee
d that?), it would be probably be easier and quicker to adjust a couple cab
les via turnbuckles on the tail than it would be to install different shims
on the stab and have to readjust the tension on 6 control
cables....
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> w
rote:
Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a direct quest
ion of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took Shad's email as meaning
, use the cables only to move the leading edge. That may not have been his
intent, so I asked. There was no mention-of shimming. No mention was made
about fine tuning either. I would not use the cables to adjust the leading
edge of anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the support.
It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well, that the cables wou
ld be adjusted to twist the thing.-I am not a fan of twist. I believe my
email explained itself quite well. Shim as needed, adjust cables to proper
tension/correct alignment.
-
"...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly - that you're pl
anning to use a traditional method of fastening the fork, with clevis pins)
. "
-
I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into the fork and hold
it there with thread.
-
As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
-
-
-
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
>
This is confusing.
You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading edge, and then
you say that you would just shim the horizontal stab at the leading edge an
d re-adjust the cable tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going
to need your cables to adjust the leading edge.
Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable tensions will need t
o be adjusted as well, since the cable attachment points are not the same a
s the stab pivot point.
A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine tuning the tai
l incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting the bracing cables, which DOE
S put a slight twist into the horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably v
isually imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for fine t
uning.
So, the short answer to your original question:
"Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that conclusion.
There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are likely the most p
ractical solution. If you use a swaged stud with a threaded fork, it will l
ook nice and clean, but you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as
you'll have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out the ad
justment, then pull the cable tight to re-With turnbuckles, the tension adj
ustments are done with all of the cables in place.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#28036=- - -
- - - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Na==
=====================
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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There is a TON of propwash over the tailfeathers that is CONSTANTLY vibrati
ng all the brace cables
, elevator, and rudder cables. I would stick with the 3/32 on the tailf
eathers and also from the bellcrank
back to the elevator controls.
When I look over my shoulder I'm amazed at how much the propwash messes wit
h everything back there.
So just like you do when you have a forced night landing "if you don't like
what you see......turn the landing light off"
Mike C.
PS-On the other hand I've seen many Piets using 1/8" tail brace cable and a
ileron cable which to me is just
overkill and is a weight penalty to boot. No offense to those seeking mo
re security though using the 1/8" cables--- by
all means that beats risking your life going too thin just to save a few o
z.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
Mark:
The chain is a ANSI #50 roller chain for 3/16" clevis pins and bolts. You
can get it here ==>
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ansi-single-strand-roller-chain/=59cxim or here
===> http://www.tractorsupply.com/. I wound up using left over chain from
work and from friends. Just grind of the heads of the link pins and drive
them out, or use a chain breaker.
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/6/2010 12:36:48 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle Link for Clevis
>
>
> I've noticed that several people have used chain master links in place of
clevises, which are obviously plenty strong for the task, but I can't
figure out what series or type of chain these links are from. I run a 520
series chain on my enduro motorcycle, which I believe is one of the largest
of the motorcycle varieties but the links that I've seen used in place of
clevises are elongated, and most likely not used on a motorcycle drive.
>
> Anyone know whey type of chain these links are from, or where I can find
some?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280389#280389
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
Thanks Rick... I'll check em out.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280406#280406
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
I don't concur.
If you increase the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabilizer, the
pivot point is the rear edge of the stabilizer. The elevator is behind
that pivot point, it will still be in the same position as before and
the control cables won't need to be adjusted at all.
Dan
Michael Perez wrote:
> I concur.
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Ryan Mueller /<rmueller23@gmail.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables?
> (long winded)
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:42 PM
>
> One of the other things that I think Bill was pointing out in his
> post, which I didn't catch on the first read through, is that if you
> are going to adjust the tail by shimming the front of the horizontal
> stab you will then have to adjust the tension for all of your
> empennage control cables. If you raise the front of the stab, the
> upper elevator control horn attach points are now slightly farther
> away from the bellcrank, and the lower attach points are slightly
> closer. The rudder control cable would probably need a bit of
> tweaking as well. Unless poor flying characteristics require you to
> make gross adjustments by shimming the stab (and is there evidence
> that a Piet built dimensionally to plans with the CG in the proper
> range is going to need that?), it would be probably be easier and
> quicker to adjust a couple cables via turnbuckles on the tail than
> it would be to install different shims on the stab and have to
> readjust the tension on 6 control cables....
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Michael Perez
> <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>>
> wrote:
>
> Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a
> direct question of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took
> Shad's email as meaning, use the cables only to move the leading
> edge. That may not have been his intent, so I asked. There was
> no mention of shimming. No mention was made about fine tuning
> either. I would not use the cables to adjust the leading edge of
> anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the
> support. It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well,
> that the cables would be adjusted to twist the thing. I am not a
> fan of twist. I believe my email explained itself quite well.
> Shim as needed, adjust cables to proper tension/correct alignment.
>
> "...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly -
> that you're planning to use a traditional method of fastening
> the fork, with clevis pins). "
>
> I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into the
> fork and hold it there with thread.
>
> As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church /<billspiet@sympatico.ca
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>/*
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables?
> (long winded)
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
>
> <billspiet@sympatico.ca
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>
>
> This is confusing.
> You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading
> edge, and then you say that you would just shim the
> horizontal stab at the leading edge and re-adjust the cable
> tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going to need
> your cables to adjust the leading edge.
> Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable
> tensions will need to be adjusted as well, since the cable
> attachment points are not the same as the stab pivot point.
> A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine
> tuning the tail incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting
> the bracing cables, which DOES put a slight twist into the
> horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably visually
> imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for
> fine tuning.
>
> So, the short answer to your original question:
> "Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
> would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that
> conclusion.
>
> There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are
> likely the most practical solution. If you use a swaged stud
> with a threaded fork, it will look nice and clean, but
> you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as you'll
> have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out
> the adjustment, then pull the cable tight to re-With
> turnbuckles, the tension adjustments are done with all of
> the cables in place.
>
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#28036=
> - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum
> -http://www.matronics.com/Na=======================
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363>
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Come on Dan! I'm trying to end this thread!
-
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
That's right, Mark.
Attached is a photo that Rick Schreiber posted to the List while back, to demonstrate.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280420#280420
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rich_schrieber_rudder_bar_top_1_160.jpg
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
Great! Thanks Bill and Rick. I know I have seen this in a couple of places, but
as usual, when I want to see them, I can't find them.
I think I am going to utilize this method.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280425#280425
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Well, since my name was mentioned, I guess I have to reply.
Actually, I was not referring to the control cables at all, just the bracing cables
- and since the attachment points of the rear bracing cables are not in line
with the pivot point (the rear edge of the stabilizer), the lengths of those
cables will also change SLIGHTLY if the front edge of the stab is shimmed up
or down.
However, since the pivot point of the stab incidence is basically the same as the
pivot point of the elevators, there shouldn't be any need to readjust the control
cables.
I'm done now.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280426#280426
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
But, we haven't even mentioned boiling your cables, hanging tractor
weights off your horizontal stabilizer, or rebuilding your wing using
the 612 Riblett design, yet.
;-)
Oh, for the love of all things right and good in the world,
do not archive
Michael Perez wrote:
> Come on Dan! I'm trying to end this thread!
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Yeah...I underthought that one. :P
do not archive
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> I don't concur.
>
> If you increase the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabilizer, the
> pivot point is the rear edge of the stabilizer. The elevator is behind that
> pivot point, it will still be in the same position as before and the control
> cables won't need to be adjusted at all.
>
> Dan
>
>
> Michael Perez wrote:
>
>> I concur.
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Ryan Mueller /<rmueller23@gmail.com>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables?
>> (long winded)
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:42 PM
>>
>> One of the other things that I think Bill was pointing out in his
>> post, which I didn't catch on the first read through, is that if you
>> are going to adjust the tail by shimming the front of the horizontal
>> stab you will then have to adjust the tension for all of your
>> empennage control cables. If you raise the front of the stab, the
>> upper elevator control horn attach points are now slightly farther
>> away from the bellcrank, and the lower attach points are slightly
>> closer. The rudder control cable would probably need a bit of
>> tweaking as well. Unless poor flying characteristics require you to
>> make gross adjustments by shimming the stab (and is there evidence
>> that a Piet built dimensionally to plans with the CG in the proper
>> range is going to need that?), it would be probably be easier and
>> quicker to adjust a couple cables via turnbuckles on the tail than
>> it would be to install different shims on the stab and have to
>> readjust the tension on 6 control cables....
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Michael Perez
>> <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net
>> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=speedbrake@sbcglobal.net
>> >>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a
>> direct question of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took
>> Shad's email as meaning, use the cables only to move the leading
>> edge. That may not have been his intent, so I asked. There was
>> no mention of shimming. No mention was made about fine tuning
>> either. I would not use the cables to adjust the leading edge of
>> anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the
>> support. It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well,
>> that the cables would be adjusted to twist the thing. I am not a
>> fan of twist. I believe my email explained itself quite well.
>> Shim as needed, adjust cables to proper tension/correct alignment.
>> "...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly
>> -
>> that you're planning to use a traditional method of fastening
>> the fork, with clevis pins). "
>> I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into
>> the
>> fork and hold it there with thread.
>> As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
>>
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church /<billspiet@sympatico.ca
>> <
>> http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>/*
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca
>> <
>> http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>
>>
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables?
>> (long winded)
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> <
>> http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> >
>>
>> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
>>
>> <billspiet@sympatico.ca
>> <
>> http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>
>>
>>
>> This is confusing.
>> You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading
>> edge, and then you say that you would just shim the
>> horizontal stab at the leading edge and re-adjust the cable
>> tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going to need
>> your cables to adjust the leading edge.
>> Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable
>> tensions will need to be adjusted as well, since the cable
>> attachment points are not the same as the stab pivot point.
>> A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine
>> tuning the tail incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting
>> the bracing cables, which DOES put a slight twist into the
>> horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably visually
>> imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for
>> fine tuning.
>>
>> So, the short answer to your original question:
>> "Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
>> would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that
>> conclusion.
>>
>> There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are
>> likely the most practical solution. If you use a swaged stud
>> with a threaded fork, it will look nice and clean, but
>> you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as you'll
>> have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out
>> the adjustment, then pull the cable tight to re-With
>> turnbuckles, the tension adjustments are done with all of
>> the cables in place.
>>
>>
>> Bill C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#28036
>> - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum
>> -http://www.matronics.com/Na=======================
>>
>>
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
>> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Lee Bottom field.... |
And if anyone hasn't been to Lee Bottom, and would like to see what's
it's like there, I have some photos from Soup on Sunday that my wife and
I attended back in 2006.
http://www.taildraggersinc.com/pages/gallery/sinful_sunday.html
Lee Bottom is just one more reason why I miss living in Louisville.
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
I used the links from a #520 chain--Jim lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle Link for Clevis
>
> I've noticed that several people have used chain master links in place of
> clevises, which are obviously plenty strong for the task, but I can't
> figure out what series or type of chain these links are from. I run a 520
> series chain on my enduro motorcycle, which I believe is one of the
> largest of the motorcycle varieties but the links that I've seen used in
> place of clevises are elongated, and most likely not used on a motorcycle
> drive.
>
> Anyone know whey type of chain these links are from, or where I can find
> some?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280389#280389
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | airworthiness papers display |
Does the holder for paperwork, (airworthiness, reg, etc) need to be in the front
cockpit or rear cockpit or does it matter?
Douwe
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