Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:10 AM - Re: tail bracing (Jack)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: airworthiness papers display (Pieti Lowell)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: airworthiness papers display (Ryan Mueller)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: tail bracing (chase143)
5. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Michael Perez)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (V Groah)
7. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: tail bracing (VAHOWDY@aol.com)
8. 11:34 AM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (Frank Metcalfe)
9. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Steve Glass)
10. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Michael Perez)
11. 12:06 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (hvandervoo@aol.com)
12. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (VAHOWDY@aol.com)
13. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Ryan Mueller)
14. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Michael Perez)
15. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Michael Perez)
16. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Michael Perez)
17. 01:27 PM - 1/16" tail brace cables (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
18. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (VAHOWDY@aol.com)
19. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Michael Perez)
20. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (David Paule)
21. 02:26 PM - vertical compass (Douwe Blumberg)
22. 02:27 PM - Re: 1/16" tail brace cables (Michael Perez)
23. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Michael Perez)
24. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: tail bracing (Michael Perez)
25. 05:56 PM - Re: 1/16" tail brace cables (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
26. 05:56 PM - Re: 1/16" tail brace cables (Jack)
27. 07:48 PM - Another HINT video (Michael Perez)
28. 07:48 PM - Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? (V Groah)
29. 07:48 PM - Re: 1/16" tail brace cables (David Paule)
30. 07:48 PM - Re: 1/16" tail brace cables (Michael Perez)
31. 07:48 PM - Re: 1/16" tail brace cables (Michael Perez)
32. 08:46 PM - 80th Anniversary article in national magazine (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
33. 08:55 PM - Re: 80th Anniversary article in national magazine (gcardinal)
34. 08:58 PM - Re: 80th Anniversary article in national magazine (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
Message 1
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Mike,
I've heard the same from more than one Piet owner. As you know this also
includes the leading edge of the vertical stab. Because of this it has been
suggested by some to attach the vertical stab wires forward and aft on the
top. I may do this myself.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail bracing
There is a TON of propwash over the tailfeathers that is CONSTANTLY
vibrating all the brace cables
, elevator, and rudder cables. I would stick with the 3/32 on the
tailfeathers and also from the bellcrank
back to the elevator controls.
When I look over my shoulder I'm amazed at how much the propwash messes with
everything back there.
So just like you do when you have a forced night landing "if you don't like
what you see..turn the landing light off"
Mike C.
PS-On the other hand I've seen many Piets using 1/8" tail brace cable and
aileron cable which to me is just
overkill and is a weight penalty to boot. No offense to those seeking
more security though using the 1/8" cables--- by
all means that beats risking your life going too thin just to save a few
oz.
07:35:00
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: airworthiness papers display |
Douwe, Just keep it on board, without undue looking. New rule ???????
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280494#280494
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: airworthiness papers display |
Straight from the horse's ass....err...mouth...one end of it, either way:
--------------------
Part 91.203: Civil aircraft: Certifications required.
a) Except as provided in =A791.715, no person may operate a civil aircraft
unless it has within it the following:
(1) An appropriate and current airworthiness certificate. <snipped for
brevity>
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft unless the airworthiness
certificate required by paragraph (a) of this section or a special flight
authorization issued under =A791.715 is displayed at the cabin or cockpit
entrance so that it is legible to passengers or crew.
--------------------
Since it has to legible to passengers *or* crew, you could put it anywhere
in the front or rear cockpit, as long as it is visible.
Have a good day,
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Douwe Blumberg
<douweblumberg@earthlink.net>wrote:
> douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>
> Does the holder for paperwork, (airworthiness, reg, etc) need to be in th
e
> front cockpit or rear cockpit or does it matter?
>
> Douwe
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
I would like to emphasis the excellent (an extremely important) point Mike brings
up about tail flutter and "harmonics". I know BP did not have access to this
information, but certainly came up with a very successful design. As late as
the 1980's the F-18 was plagued with a tail vibration cracking problem which
grounded the fleet for weeks. This was due to the wind vortices' caused by the
leading edge extensions (LEX), generally at lower speeds. Very similarly, prop
wash acts on tail surfaces (in many different directions), causing flutter and
harmonics (and in IMHO, to a greater degree then the example above). Although
very controllable when understood and designed accordingly, I would recommend
obtaining a good understanding of all the forces and stresses at work before
straying to far from the tried and true, especially on a Piet with a less stout
empennage. Im not an engineer, just my personal experience. Actual engineers,
feel free to correct my interpretation as required.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280504#280504
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/f18_slip_stream_418.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
It sounds to me that the issue is cable vibration and not cable strength, c
orrect? Is the concern that the vibration will fail the cable not so much t
he forces pulling on them? (tension)
-
The reason I asked about the 1/16" cable is I had come across a few posts i
n the archives-where the-people-claimed to use, or will be using 1/16
". I just happen to have swage type fittings for 1/16" cable and was hoping
to use them.
-
-
Message 6
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| Subject: | Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
I wrote yesterday about the cowling edges as to if they were wire edged or
hemmed or what. I forgot to ask what gauge aluminum you used for the engin
e cowling. We are ready to start on that this weekend.
Thank you for your help. We hope ours will soon look as nice as yours . V
ic Groah
From: fmetcalf@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Cowlings Big Piet Picture
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 11:59:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I agree the engine looks great Barry. Do you have any cowling pics of your
plane? I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cowling with the corv
air and scoops. My plan has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (ma
ybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling scoops already like y
ou with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but
it is easier with the right tools.)
A big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance. I
f anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or
corvair cowls with the scoops=2C send them my way.
Thanks
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
(going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today=2C but I hope to
get back in time to get a little Piet work in today)
From: Barry Davis <bed@mindspring.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 8:01:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Yep=2C they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to d
o.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wednesday=2C December 30=2C 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
www.aeroelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List========
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo. I think using 1/16 cable
would be more than strong enough. The load on the stabilizer is much like
the load on the wing. With the cable placement, one third of the load is
carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by the cables.
The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a very heavy
load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail moves the arm of
the fuselage about the C. G. The sq. ft. load is 90"x 36" or less
than 3240 sq .in. 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet 22.5 sq.
ft. x 10 lb per sq. ft. tail loading = 225 lbs max load on the tail. Of
the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage or 85 lbs. 170 lbs are carried
by the 4 wires. Four in tension on the fin, or four in tension on the
fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each wire would carry 170 lbs.
If you can hang off of one of your made up cables they are more than
strong enough.
And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate. These
wires should not be that tight. They stop the deflection of the stabilizer
and carry the load of the elevator. The back wire carries 1/2 the
stabilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that the front
one. One back wire would carry the load fine but would not triangulate the
stabilizer front to back.
And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful. I
have made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint failures.
T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate. These breaks are most
often spruce to ply. The glue pulling off the ply with a few splinters. I
think I remember reading in their directions that it can be thinned to help
with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Roughing the ply
helps with this.
Rambo, I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. lb for lb you should
the strongest part. The way things are engineered on an aircraft is to use a
part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety factor. Other wise
we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything. I still think SS bolts
are stronger than they need to be for this application. Harmonic vibration
is a separate problem to itself. Harmonic vibration and vibration are two
different things.
I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles. I can make
tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a gob of
money.
Howdy
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
The edges around engine have no seam or wire. We simpley cut with no finish
except buffing with scotchbright wheel to clean tool marks and remove cut
marks. The cowling bowel is welded. I will see if I can find pictures and p
ost to show how we did it.- We used 2023t3 .020 Alum. for the cowling. We
did bead the edages where the cowling laps and where it meets the plane. P
ictures work better I will see if I can find some and post. Oh thanks for t
he looks comments on the Big Peit !!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0AFrom: V Groah <vgroah@hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronic
s.com=0ASent: Thu, January 7, 2010 1:31:31 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List
: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0AI wrote yesterday about-the cow
ling edges as to-if they-were wire edged-or hemmed-or what.- I fo
rgot to ask what gauge aluminum you used for the engine cowling.- We are
ready to start on that this weekend.- =0A-=0AThank you-for your-hel
p.- We hope ours-will soon look as nice as yours .- Vic Groah=0A-
=0A________________________________=0ADate: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:59:02 -0800
=0AFrom: fmetcalf@bellsouth.net=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet
Oil Cooler locations?=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A=0A=0ACowlings
Big Piet Picture=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Mic
hael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent
: Wed, December 30, 2009 11:59:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair
Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A=0AI agree the engine looks great Barry.
- Do you have any cowling pics of your plane?- I'd like to see some pic
s of how you did the cowling with the corvair and scoops.- My plan has al
ways been to remote mount the oil cooler (maybe under the engine) and thus
I've made some cooling scoops already like you with the wired edge and all.
(you're right it's not that hard to do-but it is easier with the right too
ls.)=0A=0AA big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assi
stance.- If anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oi
l coolers or corvair cowls with the scoops, send them my way.- =0A=0AThan
ks=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A(going to go help my father-in-law work on
his RV8A today, but I hope to get back in time to get a little Piet work i
n today)=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Barry Davis <bed@
mindspring.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 30
, 2009 8:01:44 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler lo
spring.com>=0A=0AYep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really
very hard to do.=0ABarry =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pi
etenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff=0ABoatright=0ASent: Wednesday, December 30, 2
009 10:28 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-Li
st: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message post
ed by: Jeff =0A=0Awww.aeroelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=========
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AYour E-mail and More On-the-Go.
=========
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Hi
Just quickly read this post and wondered if you had figured the load on the
wire is not vertical but at quite an angle. This will up the load quite a
bit.
Just thinking about the load on sailboat shrouds and how the angles come in
to play.
Steve in Maine
From: VAHOWDY@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo. I think using
1/16 cable would be more than strong enough. The load on the stabilizer
is much like the load on the wing. With the cable placement=2C one
third of the load is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are
carried by the cables. The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I
will use a very heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on th
e
tail moves the arm of the fuselage about the C. G. The sq. ft. load
is 90"x 36" or less than 3240 sq
.in. 3240/144= less than 22.5
sq.feet 22.5 sq. ft. x 10 lb per sq. ft. tail
loading = 225 lbs max load on the tail. Of the
225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage or 85 lbs. 170
lbs are carried by the 4 wires. Four in tension on
the fin=2C or four in tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor o
f
4 than each wire would carry 170 lbs. If you can hang off of one of
your made up cables they are more than strong enough.
And for vibration=2C a tight wire is much more likely to
vibrate. These wires should not be that tight. They stop the
deflection of the stabilizer and carry the load of the elevator.
The back wire carries 1/2 the stabilizer plus the elevator=2C so the back w
ire
carries more load that the front one. One back wire would carry the load
fine but would not triangulate the stabilizer front to back.
And while I'm on my soap box=2C I think T-88 is not
so wonderful. I have made multiple test breaks and have seen at
least four joint failures. T-88 can lay on top of the would and not
penetrate. These breaks are most often spruce to ply. The glue
pulling off the ply with a few splinters. I think I remember reading in
their directions that it can be thinned to help with penetration=2C but the
n you
lose that nice filet. Roughing the ply helps with this.
Rambo=2C I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. lb for lb you
should the strongest part. The way things are engineered on an aircraft is
to use a part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety
factor. Other wise we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything.
I still think SS bolts are stronger than they need to be for this
application. Harmonic vibration is a separate problem to itself.
Harmonic vibration and vibration are two different things.
I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles. I
can make tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a
gob
of money.
Howdy
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
The load on the cables is in pure tension, the fitting is at an angle, the
cables are straight.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Hi
Just quickly read this post and wondered if you had figured the load on the
wire is not vertical but at quite an angle.- This will up the load quite
a bit.
Just thinking about the load on sailboat shrouds and how the angles come in
to play.
Steve in Maine
From: VAHOWDY@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
- At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo.- I think using 1/16
cable would be more than strong enough.- The load on the stabilizer is-
much like the load on the wing.- With the cable placement, one third of t
he load is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by
the cables.- The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a
very heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail move
s the arm of the fuselage about the C. G.-- The sq. ft. load is--
--- -90"x 36"-or -less than 3240 sq .in.-------
- 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet---- 22.5 sq. ft. x 10 lb per
sq. ft. tail loading-=- 225 lbs max load on the tail.---Of -
the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage-or 85 lbs.--- 170 lbs-ar
e carried by the 4 wires.---Four in-tension on the fin, or-four i
n tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each wire w
ould carry 170 lbs.-- If you can hang off
of one of your made up cables they are more than strong enough.
-
--And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate.- Th
ese wires should not be that tight.- They stop the deflection-of the st
abilizer and carry the load-of the elevator.- The back wire carries 1/2
the stabilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that
the front one.-One back wire would carry the load fine but would not tria
ngulate the stabilizer front to back.
-
----And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful.
-- I have made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint f
ailures.- T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate.- These br
eaks are most often spruce to ply.- The glue pulling off the ply with a f
ew splinters. I think I remember reading -in their directions that it can
be thinned to help with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Ro
ughing- the ply helps with this.
-
- Rambo, I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. - lb for lb you should
the strongest part.- The way things are engineered on an aircraft is to
use-a part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety factor.- O
ther wise we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything.- I still think
SS bolts are stronger than they need to be for this application.- Harmon
ic vibration is a separate problem to itself.- Harmonic vibration and vib
ration are two different things.
-
- I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles.-I can m
ake tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a gob
of money.-
-
Howdy<="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronicshref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.c
om/con================
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
My Piet has 1/16 cables for tail bracing it more than strong enough.
Like Howdy, I calculated the load but in reverse, I started with max cable
strength and worked it out from there.
My conclusion was that all the wood will break long before any of the 1/16
cable would.
Close to 100 Flying hours no problems noticed
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Hi
Just quickly read this post and wondered if you had figured the load on th
e wire is not vertical but at quite an angle. This will up the load quite
a bit.
Just thinking about the load on sailboat shrouds and how the angles come
into play.
Steve in Maine
From: VAHOWDY@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo. I think using 1/16 cab
le would be more than strong enough. The load on the stabilizer is much
like the load on the wing. With the cable placement, one third of the lo
ad is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by the
cables. The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a very
heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail moves
the arm of the fuselage about the C. G. The sq. ft. load is 90"x
36" or less than 3240 sq .in. 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet
22.5 sq. ft. x 10 lb per sq. ft. tail loading = 225 lbs max load
on the tail. Of the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage or 85 lbs.
170 lbs are carried by the 4 wires. Four in tension on the fin, or fo
ur in tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each
wire would carry 170 lbs. If you can hang off of one of your made up ca
bles they are more than strong enough.
And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate. These
wires should not be that tight. They stop the deflection of the stabiliz
er and carry the load of the elevator. The back wire carries 1/2 the stab
ilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that the fron
t one. One back wire would carry the load fine but would not triangulate
the stabilizer front to back.
And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful. I ha
ve made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint failures.
T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate. These breaks are mo
st often spruce to ply. The glue pulling off the ply with a few splinters
. I think I remember reading in their directions that it can be thinned
to help with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Roughing th
e ply helps with this.
Rambo, I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. lb for lb you should th
e strongest part. The way things are engineered on an aircraft is to use
a part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety factor. Other
wise we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything. I still think SS
bolts are stronger than they need to be for this application. Harmonic
vibration is a separate problem to itself. Harmonic vibration and vibrat
ion are two different things.
I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles. I can make
tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a gob of
money.
Howdy
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www.matronics.com/con================
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Steve,
You are right. You would have to add the compression load of the
stabilizer strut to the 170 lbs. The lower the angle the higher this
compression. My point is, the flight loads are low on the stabilizer. 1/16
cable
has a breaking strength of 480 lbs. lots of margin.
All this being said I'm using 3/32 on my Scout. I thought the
question was, is it strong enough?
Howdy
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Just a thought....your math may be correct, I'm not going to check it...but
I would look at the fact that there are a number of successful flying
airplanes with 1/16" tail wires as proof that they should be sufficient in
practical application (Hans Vander Voort, Oscar, Chuck G, The Last Original,
etc).
Same thing with T-88. While you may have had an issue with it, there are
many Pietenpols (and who knows how many other homebuilts) built with T-88
that are/have been successful, safe flying airplanes for a good number of
years, flying hundreds upon hundreds of hours (if not collectively
thousands, in the case of Piets). It is generally accepted as a fairly
forgiving, easy to use epoxy. If you find T-88 unsatisfactory, yet so many
others use it with success, I would possibly look at how I was using
it/applying it/etc before thinking the product was no good.....
Ryan
do not archive
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:09 PM, <VAHOWDY@aol.com> wrote:
> At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo. I think using 1/16
> cable would be more than strong enough. The load on the stabilizer is much
> like the load on the wing. With the cable placement, one third of the load
> is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by the
> cables. The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a very
> heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail moves the
> arm of the fuselage about the C. G. The sq. ft. load is 90"x 36" or
> less than 3240 sq .in. 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet 22.5
> sq. ft. x 10 lb per sq. ft. tail loading = 225 lbs max load on the
> tail. Of the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage or 85 lbs. 170
> lbs are carried by the 4 wires. Four in tension on the fin, or four in
> tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each wire
> would carry 170 lbs. If you can hang off of one of your made up cables
> they are more than strong enough.
>
> And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate. These
> wires should not be that tight. They stop the deflection of the stabilizer
> and carry the load of the elevator. The back wire carries 1/2 the
> stabilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that the
> front one. One back wire would carry the load fine but would not triangulate
> the stabilizer front to back.
>
> And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful. I
> have made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint failures.
> T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate. These breaks are most
> often spruce to ply. The glue pulling off the ply with a few splinters. I
> think I remember reading in their directions that it can be thinned to help
> with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Roughing the ply helps
> with this.
> <snip>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Copy Hans, thank you.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, hvandervoo@aol.com <hvandervoo@aol.com> wrote:
From: hvandervoo@aol.com <hvandervoo@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
My Piet has 1/16 cables for tail bracing it more than strong enough.
-
Like Howdy, I calculated the load but in reverse, I started with max cable
strength and worked it out from there.
My conclusion was that all the wood will break long before any of the 1/16
cable would.
-
Close to 100 Flying hours no problems noticed
-
Hans
-
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
#yiv2121107337 #AOLMsgPart_2_c9939857-dc46-4d20-903d-0407c253d2a4 td{color:
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Hi
Just quickly read this post and wondered if you had figured the load on the
wire is not vertical but at quite an angle.- This will up the load quite
a bit.
Just thinking about the load on sailboat shrouds and how the angles come in
to play.
Steve in Maine
From: VAHOWDY@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
- At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo.- I think using 1/16
cable would be more than strong enough.- The load on the stabilizer is-
much like the load on the wing.- With the cable placement, one third of t
he load is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by
the cables.- The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a
very heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail move
s the arm of the fuselage about the C. G.-- The sq. ft. load is--
--- -90"x 36"-or -less than 3240 sq .in.-------
- 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet---- 22.5 sq. ft. x 10 lb per
sq. ft. tail loading-=- 225 lbs max load on the tail.---Of -
the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage-or 85 lbs.--- 170 lbs-ar
e carried by the 4 wires.---Four in-tension on the fin, or-four i
n tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each wire w
ould carry 170 lbs.-- If you can hang off
of one of your made up cables they are more than strong enough.
-
--And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate.- Th
ese wires should not be that tight.- They stop the deflection-of the st
abilizer and carry the load-of the elevator.- The back wire carries 1/2
the stabilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that
the front one.-One back wire would carry the load fine but would not tria
ngulate the stabilizer front to back.
-
----And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful.
-- I have made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint f
ailures.- T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate.- These br
eaks are most often spruce to ply.- The glue pulling off the ply with a f
ew splinters. I think I remember reading -in their directions that it can
be thinned to help with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Ro
ughing- the ply helps with this.
-
- Rambo, I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. - lb for lb you should
the strongest part.- The way things are engineered on an aircraft is to
use-a part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety factor.- O
ther wise we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything.- I still think
SS bolts are stronger than they need to be for this application.- Harmon
ic vibration is a separate problem to itself.- Harmonic vibration and vib
ration are two different things.
-
- I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles.-I can m
ake tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a gob
of money.-
-
Howdyhttp://www.matronicshref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">htt
p://www.matronics.com/con================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Howdy, I am oh so very pleased that you replied. Not because you agree with
me, but because rather then just make a statement, you back it up in a way
that even I can understand it.
-
On the SS bolts...I understand bolt fatigue due to vibration. But I am not
sure how that relates to-a bolt embedded in spruce and plywood. I underst
and,-IN GENERAL, SS rates lower then cad plated, but I am not sure that a
SS bolt with a tail brace fitting attached-under the bolt head while the
rest of the bolt is embedded in wood with a nut on the other side on a 100
MPH plane would sheer, crack, snap, pull through the wood, etc. To my uned
ucated eyes in this matter, I would agree SS would work, but I just know. I
am at the mercy of those who do.
-
On tail bracing and vibration...it seems that tail vibration is common-an
d to some enough to cause concern when they-check 6.- I am curious why
this has not been addressed and a solution reached so we can all have a-s
olid tail. (no jokes, please-8^[) )--What effect would separating the
cables at the rudder top due as mentioned in an earlier post? How about lo
wering the cables to about mid way on the rudder and bringing them in close
r to the fuselage on the horizontal? This would give us shorter cables, (ma
ybe less cable flutter) and rather then have-a tail fitting, 3 feet of-
H. stab then the fuselage attachment, we have 1.5 feet of H. stab., the cab
le fitting, another 1.5 feet and then the fuselage attachment.-Now you do
n't have that long 3 feet of stab to twist and flex. (but maybe now that ou
ter 1.5 feet would snap off if the cable was moved in...?)
-
ANYHOO, sorry to blab, but I ponder things all the time...
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Thanks Ryan. This entire thread sums up why I come to this list. My main go
al is to see if anyone here has flown with the ideas I post about on their
plane. (Really, I'm here to piss people off...) I get some replies that rai
se concerns that I never thought of. Others-branch off into RELATED quest
ions that I would have been asking later down the road.
-
For those that contacted me off list with their real world experience in th
eir plane, I thank you as well.
-
-
Message 17
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| Subject: | 1/16" tail brace cables |
Now that IS refreshing to hear from real, live flying examples using 1/16" tail
bracing
cables.
And Mike P. as long as your cable swaging method is acceptable/proven nicopress
sleeves
or other then you're okay but if you're applying some unproven methods that might
be
your weak point or a point of dissimilar metal corrosion. Just a thought, not
trying
to pee on anyone's campfire. (though that is more fun than walking back to the
house
and using the bathroom some nights.....)
Mike C.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Speedbrake,
I think that there would be minimal vibration on the bolt. I think the
wood it passes through would dampen any vibration. Now the tab is a
different story. I just feel that a wire that has a harmonic vibration could
fatigue the fitting over time. Harmonic vibration is a funny thing. a small
change in speed/load/RPM will make it come and go, but at just the right
speed it adds force, just like someone on a trampoline, each jump adds
force/height. Changing the location of the cable is not a good idea. Their
placement, even though thru trial and error, are where they are out of need.
The one thing that could be done is to make each cable a slightly
different length. that way each one would have a different harmonic. I have
seen
small V's added to power lines to stop this harmonic. Maybe you have seen
them too. I guess It would work on a plane that was having a problem. I
wouldn't do anything unless I had a problem first. I think a design change
could be made using tubing for the cable. It should cost less (no
turnbuckles) but weigh more. This would not vibrate at Piet flight speeds. Many
of
aircraft us this method.
Ryan,
You could be right about me and T-88 usage. I do remember my shop
being in the 60's in the winter.
The first break was an accident. My table saw jammed and sent a piece of
wood into my wing. This broke out two ribs . These were not stick ribs
but 1/4 ply to a box spar. The joint was 5 in. long. To my surprise the
joints came apart with all the T-88 on one side, mostly on the ribs. I know
others love T-88.
I would just suggest doing a little destructive testing. This should be
done with each mixed batch. There is always a little leftover.
Howdy
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Copy that Howdy. I understand more and more as I visit this list.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, VAHOWDY@aol.com <VAHOWDY@aol.com> wrote:
From: VAHOWDY@aol.com <VAHOWDY@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Speedbrake,
-- I think that there would be minimal vibration on the bolt.- I thin
k the wood it passes through would dampen any vibration.- Now the tab is
a different story.- I just feel that a wire that has a harmonic vibration
could fatigue the fitting over time.- Harmonic vibration is a funny thin
g.- a small change in speed/load/RPM will make it-come and go,-but at
just the right speed it adds force, just like someone on a trampoline, eac
h jump adds force/height.- Changing the location of the cable is not a go
od idea.- Their placement, even though thru trial and error, are where th
ey are out of need.- The one thing that could be done is to make each cab
le a slightly -different length.- that way each one would have a differ
ent harmonic.-- I have seen small V's- added to power lines to stop t
his harmonic.-Maybe you have seen them too.-I guess It would work on a
plane that was having a problem.- I wouldn't do anything unless I had a p
roblem
first.- I think a design change could be made using tubing for the cable
.- It should cost less (no turnbuckles) but weigh more.- This would not
vibrate at Piet flight speeds.-Many of aircraft us this method.
-
Ryan,
-- You could be right about me and T-88 usage.- I do remember my shop
being in the 60's in the winter.
The first break was an accident.- My table saw jammed and sent a piece of
wood into my wing.- This broke out-two ribs-.- These were not stic
k ribs but 1/4 ply to a box spar.-The joint was 5 in. long. To my surpris
e the joints came apart with all the T-88 on one side, mostly on the ribs.
- I know others love T-88.
- I would just suggest doing a little destructive testing.- This should
be done with each mixed batch.-There is always a little leftover.
-
Howdy
-
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Stainless steel bolts will have a very low yield strength, less than
half the yield strength of steel AN bolts.
I sure as heck wouldn't use them in a structural application.
They should only be used where specified by the designer.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:28 PM
....I understand, IN GENERAL, SS rates lower then cad plated,
but I am not sure that a SS bolt with a tail brace fitting attached
under the bolt head while the rest of the bolt is embedded in wood with
a nut on the other side on a 100 MPH plane would sheer, crack, snap,
pull through the wood, etc. To my uneducated eyes in this matter, I
would agree SS would work, but I just know. I am at the mercy of those
who do.
Message 21
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| Subject: | vertical compass |
Does anyone know of any reason why a vertical compass couldn't be mounted at a
slight angle? I'm thinking of down on the bulkhead in front of the stick where
it'll fit inside the "V" formed by the aileron cables. I'd need it angled up
a bit so I could see it though.
I had put a small one in the front panel but am starting to think that it might
be too hard to read and didn't make room on my pilot's panel, so i'm thinking
of alternatives.
Douwe
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 1/16" tail brace cables |
I understand Mike. I am using the Kearney- type I rotary swager...same de
al that A. Spruce sells for $6,000. I have all the dies, (ball and shank) f
itting/cable guide, go/no gauges, manual... the whole kit.-I have used th
is exact machine many years ago in a hangar I once worked at.- I also hav
e all of the MS21252 cable terminations, barrels, clevis pins, cotter pins
and clips. (I am using the clip type hardware as opposed to the safety wire
ones.
). I will be using SS cable. According to A. Spruce and a few other sources
, the 7X7 SS rates the same as the galvanized.
-
I hope to use this on all the cables-on/in the plane...we'll see if it wo
rks out.
-
-
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
In one of my previous replies I said that I was here to piss people off. That was
a TYPO! (Glad I looked at in in the forum...) I meant to say I am NOT here
to piss people off! (Although that may happen from time to time.)
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
I have concluded that SS hardware will be only used in non-structural areas
. (finally)-
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, David Paule <dpaule@frii.com> wrote:
From: David Paule <dpaule@frii.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Stainless steel bolts will have a very low yield strength, less than half t
he yield strength of steel AN bolts.
-
I sure as heck wouldn't use them in a structural application.
-
They should only be used where specified by the designer.
-
David Paule
-
-
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:28 PM
-
....I understand,-IN GENERAL, SS rates lower then cad plated, but I am no
t sure that a SS bolt with a tail brace fitting attached-under the bolt h
ead while the rest of the bolt is embedded in wood with a nut on the other
side on a 100 MPH plane would sheer, crack, snap, pull through the wood, et
c. To my uneducated eyes in this matter, I would agree SS would work, but I
just know. I am at the mercy of those who do.
-
Message 25
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| Subject: | 1/16" tail brace cables |
Excellent. That is what I was hoping to hear since I know you had duty time
in our NASA aircraft hangar. (and this dog got lots of time flying aerobatics
in our NASA OV-10 Bronco while they were testing some kind of fiber optic stuff
for wear in rough maneuvering operations. What a gig !
Mike C.
do not archive
>I understand Mike. I am using the Kearney type I rotary swager...same
>deal that A. Spruce sells for $6,000. I have all the dies, (ball and
>shank) fitting/cable guide, go/no gauges, manual... the whole kit.I
>have used this exact machine many years ago in a hangar I once worked
>at. I also have all of the MS21252 cable terminations, barrels, clevis
>pins, cotter pins and clips. (I am using the clip type hardware as
>opposed to the safety wire ones.
>). I will be using SS cable. According to A. Spruce and a few other
>sources, the 7X7 SS rates the same as the galvanized.
>
>I hope to use this on all the cableson/in the plane...we'll see if it
>works out.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | 1/16" tail brace cables |
Speaking of Nicopress Sleeves...Are there areas where people are using two
for an extra margin of safety?
Jack
DSM
Blizzard here going to -19 tonight. The ONLY thing this freaking weather is
good for is working on my Pietenpol in the warm family room.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Another HINT video |
For those who care, HINT Video #4 Trailing Edge is now available at karetakeraero.com.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Thank you so very much for your help. We would not have been as far as we
are without the help on all you Piet guys!!!
From: fmetcalf@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
The edges around engine have no seam or wire. We simpley cut with no finish
except buffing with scotchbright wheel to clean tool marks and remove cut
marks. The cowling bowel is welded. I will see if I can find pictures and p
ost to show how we did it. We used 2023t3 .020 Alum. for the cowling. We d
id bead the edages where the cowling laps and where it meets the plane. Pic
tures work better I will see if I can find some and post. Oh thanks for the
looks comments on the Big Peit !!
From: V Groah <vgroah@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu=2C January 7=2C 2010 1:31:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I wrote yesterday about the cowling edges as to if they were wire edged or
hemmed or what. I forgot to ask what gauge aluminum you used for the engin
e cowling. We are ready to start on that this weekend.
Thank you for your help. We hope ours will soon look as nice as yours . V
ic Groah
From: fmetcalf@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Cowlings Big Piet Picture
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 11:59:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I agree the engine looks great Barry. Do you have any cowling pics of your
plane? I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cowling with the corv
air and scoops. My plan has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (ma
ybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling scoops already like y
ou with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but
it is easier with the right tools.)
A big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance. I
f anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or
corvair cowls with the scoops=2C send them my way.
Thanks
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
(going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today=2C but I hope to
get back in time to get a little Piet work in today)
From: Barry Davis <bed@mindspring.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 8:01:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Yep=2C they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to d
o.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wednesday=2C December 30=2C 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
www.aeroelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List========
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 1/16" tail brace cables |
SS cable wears out quicker than galvanized.
Some time ago, I asked the very knowledgeable AI who was giving my plane
its annual that year, if I should change out my cables. At the time,
older 180s were having cable problems. He confirmed that I had
galvanized and said to leave them, that it was only the stainless ones
that had problems. The plane is now 55 years old and the cables are
completely acceptable.
Stick with the galvanized.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1/16" tail brace cables
I understand Mike. I am using the Kearney type I rotary
swager...same deal that A. Spruce sells for $6,000. I have all the dies,
(ball and shank) fitting/cable guide, go/no gauges, manual... the whole
kit. I have used this exact machine many years ago in a hangar I once
worked at. I also have all of the MS21252 cable terminations, barrels,
clevis pins, cotter pins and clips. (I am using the clip type hardware
as opposed to the safety wire ones.
). I will be using SS cable. According to A. Spruce and a few
other sources, the 7X7 SS rates the same as the galvanized.
I hope to use this on all the cables on/in the plane...we'll see
if it works out.
Message 30
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| Subject: | 1/16" tail brace cables |
UGH! Below I said I was using 7X7 SS cable. WRONG! I am using 7X19 SS.- M
an, I'm tired...I'n going to bed.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy
@nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 1/16" tail brace cables
space Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Excellent.- That is what I was hoping to hear since I know you had duty t
ime
in our NASA aircraft hangar.---(and this dog got lots of time flying
aerobatics
in our NASA OV-10 Bronco while they were testing some kind of fiber optic s
tuff
for wear in rough maneuvering operations.---What a gig !
Mike C.
do not archive---
>I understand Mike. I am using the Kearney- type I rotary swager...same
>deal that A. Spruce sells for $6,000. I have all the dies, (ball and
>shank) fitting/cable guide, go/no gauges, manual... the whole kit.-I
>have used this exact machine many years ago in a hangar I once worked
>at.- I also have all of the MS21252 cable terminations, barrels, clevis
>pins, cotter pins and clips. (I am using the clip type hardware as
>opposed to the safety wire ones.
>). I will be using SS cable. According to A. Spruce and a few other
>sources, the 7X7 SS rates the same as the galvanized.
>
>I hope to use this on all the cables-on/in the plane...we'll see if it
>works out.
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 31
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| Subject: | 1/16" tail brace cables |
STILL screwed up...it IS 7X7. NOW I'm going to bed...I should should sleep
in while I'm at it...
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
<michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy
@nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 1/16" tail brace cables
space Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Excellent.- That is what I was hoping to hear since I know you had duty t
ime
in our NASA aircraft hangar.---(and this dog got lots of time flying
aerobatics
in our NASA OV-10 Bronco while they were testing some kind of fiber optic s
tuff
for wear in rough maneuvering operations.---What a gig !
Mike C.
do not archive---
>I understand Mike. I am using the Kearney- type I rotary swager...same
>deal that A. Spruce sells for $6,000. I have all the dies, (ball and
>shank) fitting/cable guide, go/no gauges, manual... the whole kit.-I
>have used this exact machine many years ago in a hangar I once worked
>at.- I also have all of the MS21252 cable terminations, barrels, clevis
>pins, cotter pins and clips. (I am using the clip type hardware as
>opposed to the safety wire ones.
>). I will be using SS cable. According to A. Spruce and a few other
>sources, the 7X7 SS rates the same as the galvanized.
>
>I hope to use this on all the cables-on/in the plane...we'll see if it
>works out.
>
>
le, List Admin.
Message 32
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| Subject: | 80th Anniversary article in national magazine |
OK - this may be hype but my brother has been contacted about some of his p
hotos of Brodhead 2009. A national publication (who shall rename nameless
for now) is interested in using some of his photos in an article about the
80th anniversary of the design. They may be interested in stories as well.
What I'm asking is for people who were at Brodhead to take a look at the ph
otos of your aircraft. Let me know if you have any issues with them being
used in a national publication. If not=2C we'll assume you're all for it (
like I would be if I had a finished airplane).
I will update the list as we find out more about this article. The pics ca
n be found at the following link. Enjoy and of course=2C feel free to comm
ent.
http://http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-ann
i/
Tom B.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 80th Anniversary article in national magazine |
This link will work better:
http://www.public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni
/
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary article in national magazine
OK - this may be hype but my brother has been contacted about some of
his photos of Brodhead 2009. A national publication (who shall rename
nameless for now) is interested in using some of his photos in an
article about the 80th anniversary of the design. They may be
interested in stories as well.
What I'm asking is for people who were at Brodhead to take a look at
the photos of your aircraft. Let me know if you have any issues with
them being used in a national publication. If not, we'll assume you're
all for it (like I would be if I had a finished airplane).
I will update the list as we find out more about this article. The
pics can be found at the following link. Enjoy and of course, feel free
to comment.
http://http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-a
nni/
Tom B.
Message 34
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| Subject: | 80th Anniversary article in national magazine |
New link - sorry...
http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/
From: tmbrant@msn.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary article in national magazine
OK - this may be hype but my brother has been contacted about some of his p
hotos of Brodhead 2009. A national publication (who shall rename nameless
for now) is interested in using some of his photos in an article about the
80th anniversary of the design. They may be interested in stories as well.
What I'm asking is for people who were at Brodhead to take a look at the ph
otos of your aircraft. Let me know if you have any issues with them being
used in a national publication. If not=2C we'll assume you're all for it (
like I would be if I had a finished airplane).
I will update the list as we find out more about this article. The pics ca
n be found at the following link. Enjoy and of course=2C feel free to comm
ent.
http://http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-ann
i/
Tom B.
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