---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/17/10: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:31 AM - Re: Cool propeller shapes- need help finding brass tipping info (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 05:52 AM - Austin Visit's a Go, Sunday 17 Jan, ETA Lockhart 1130 (kevinpurtee) 3. 06:43 AM - Fuselage cross strut question (Jack) 4. 07:23 AM - Re: Fuselage cross strut question (Gary Boothe) 5. 07:30 AM - Re: Cool propeller shapes- need help finding brass tipping info (Gary Boothe) 6. 07:34 AM - Re: Fuselage cross strut question () 7. 08:04 AM - Re: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? (wildhorsesracing) 8. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: New to site (John Recine) 9. 08:27 AM - Re: Fuselage cross strut question (Jerry Dotson) 10. 08:31 AM - Re: Fuselage cross strut question (John Recine) 11. 09:59 AM - Re: Fuselage cross strut question (Ben Charvet) 12. 10:12 AM - Re: Fuselage cross strut question (Kip and Beth Gardner) 13. 10:46 AM - Re: Fuselage cross strut question (Jack Phillips) 14. 11:53 AM - Re: Fuselage cross strut question (Jack) 15. 03:32 PM - Cool propeller shapes- need help finding brass tipping info (santiago morete) 16. 05:01 PM - Re: New to site (dgaldrich) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cool propeller shapes- need help finding brass tipping info From: helspersew@aol.com Santiago, Thanks for that info. That 1920 book is very informative, and I had not se en it before. Once again, you are a wealth of knowledge! This is what that book has to say on the subject. The sheet copper is cut to pattern by and rubbing on a hollowed out wood block This is helpful, but not really detailed. Maybe I am trying to complicated this process too much. I will just have to experiment myself I think. Are you planning to put the metal tipping on yours? How will you attempt it? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Austin Visit's a Go, Sunday 17 Jan, ETA Lockhart 1130 From: "kevinpurtee" ETD from Lockhart back to Houston 1330. Lunch in beautiful Lockhart. Kevin Purtee NX899KP 512-422-6371 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281886#281886 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:25 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Good morning, The long fuselage plan supplement does not show the dimensions for the width of the cross struts. I assume I don't use the dimensions called out in the short version plans. I have the front fuselage secure and the tail post glued. The curve to the tail looks nice, should I cut the cross struts to fit as is, making sure the dimensions for the top and respective bottom struts are the same length? Thanks, Jack ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:56 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question That's what I did, Jack. Dimensions were set back to the rear cockpit, then to 0" at the tail..just took measurements at each station. I suspect that different woods, and different grain patterns affect how the longerons make the bend. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Good morning, The long fuselage plan supplement does not show the dimensions for the width of the cross struts. I assume I don't use the dimensions called out in the short version plans. I have the front fuselage secure and the tail post glued. The curve to the tail looks nice, should I cut the cross struts to fit as is, making sure the dimensions for the top and respective bottom struts are the same length? Thanks, Jack ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:53 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cool propeller shapes- need help finding brass tipping info Dan, I know little to nothing about metal working, but I suspected that, if I wanted metal tips, I would have to carve a 'trough' in some wood, that somewhat came close to the leading edge of my props. Working the metal in to the trough would be done with wood, also..anyhow, that's how I would attempt it. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 4:31 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cool propeller shapes- need help finding brass tipping info Santiago, Thanks for that info. That 1920 book is very informative, and I had not seen it before. Once again, you are a wealth of knowledge! This is what that book has to say on the subject. The sheet copper is cut to pattern by and rubbing on a hollowed out wood block This is helpful, but not really detailed. Maybe I am trying to complicated this process too much. I will just have to experiment myself I think. Are you planning to put the metal tipping on yours? How will you attempt it? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:32 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question The width of the long fuselage is the same as the short fuselage, 24-inches at the front tapering to the tail as shown on the short plans. Some people start the taper behind the rear seat for more room for the back seat. Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Good morning, The long fuselage plan supplement does not show the dimensions for the width of the cross struts. I assume I don't use the dimensions called out in the short version plans. I have the front fuselage secure and the tail post glued. The curve to the tail looks nice, should I cut the cross struts to fit as is, making sure the dimensions for the top and respective bottom struts are the same length? Thanks, Jack ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:23 AM PST US From: wildhorsesracing Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? It is barely legible but mine says 5/8" - .035 -jim pantas www.wildhorsesracing.com ________________________________ From: Jim Ash Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 9:34:11 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? What does it say about the tube diameters from station 2 to 13 and 2 to 12? The drawing I'm looking at says "1937 AIR CAMPER WITH 1960 CORVAIR ENGINE" at the top. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- From: wildhorsesracing Sent: Jan 14, 2010 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? I just ordered a set of plans and the front page is a complete steel diagram - the top longeron is 5/8 x .035 -jim pantas www.wildhorsesracing.com From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 7:58:11 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? Jim, I can't speak to whether or not there are steel tube long fuselage Piets out there off the top of my head.....but as far as the plans go: There are no plans for a steel tube long fuselage. Here's a quick list of the various fuselages there are plans for: Flying and Glider manual 13' 5" length: Wood and steel 1933 'Improved' approx 13' 7" length: Wood Supplemental plans long fuselage approx 14' 5": Wood Ryan On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Jim Ash wrote: Has anybody built a long fuselage out of tube and fabric instead of wood? For some reason over the last couple years I thought the t&f fuselage was synonymous with the long fuselage. I was just going through the supplemental drawings to add up tubing lengths to put together a Dillsburg order, and now I see the t&f fuselage is actually a couple inches shorter than the standard wood. Jim Ash ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to site From: "John Recine" Buggy Welcome to the light side. Fyi, I'm building with poplar and really like it. Once you begin working with it I think you'll find it a nice wood to work with and more than suitable for your needs. John ------Original Message------ From: A&PBuggy Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to site Sent: Jan 16, 2010 11:37 PM Wow!!!! You guys are great!!!!!! Good to see all the replies!!!!! I am in the U.P. of Mi. , lots of snow here, just got home from Eagle River Wi. , watching world champion snowmobile oval racing!!! Great fun!!!! #1. I am leaning more toward Pietenpol plans more than Grega's, One of my A&P instructors gave them to me (Grega)when he chose the originals instead. (No offense toward Grega) #2. Poplar is abundant here where I live, never gave that enough thought, Thanks for the suggestion. #3. I need to do some more research on the Corvair engine, Could be cheaper than 65/85. #4. I think there is one flying out of Marquette Mi. that I could look at, about 2.5 hrs away from home. Well worth the ride, as that is where I went to get my A&P and Private pilot from. Would be great to see the old school again!!!! #5. Have fun guys and keep building!!!!!!!!! Hope to join the ranks soon!!!!!!! Buggy. -------- never enough hours in the day. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281872#281872 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:07 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage cross strut question From: "Jerry Dotson" Jack, The dimensions called out on the plans give outside dimensions. I just subtracted 2 inches from that and cut. I haven't gotten my fuselage sides together yet. Will post a picture when I do. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281910#281910 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question From: "John Recine" Jack, I cut mine on the basis of dimensional preference. Mine is a wide body so I am at 27 inches to the inside as a basis for the rest of my lateral stringers. I carried that from the forward bulk head to the beginning of the taper at the rear of the rear pit. Hope that provides some help John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Jack" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Good morning, The long fuselage plan supplement does not show the dimensions for the width of the cross struts. I assume I don't use the dimensions called out in the short version plans. I have the front fuselage secure and the tail post glued. The curve to the tail looks nice, should I cut the cross struts to fit as is, making sure the dimensions for the top and respective bottom struts are the same length? Thanks, Jack ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:14 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Jack wrote: > > Good morning, > > The long fuselage plan supplement does not show the dimensions for the > width of the cross struts. I assume I dont use the dimensions called > out in the short version plans. I have the front fuselage secure and > the tail post glued. The curve to the tail looks nice, should I cut > the cross struts to fit as is, making sure the dimensions for the top > and respective bottom struts are the same length? > > Thanks, > I used the same dimensions as the short fuselage and everything worked out fine... Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:30 AM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Just make sure that the curve between the seat back and the tail post is smooth and that your tailpost is planed down to the correct thickness (1") . The person who put my fuse together made the crosspieces at the last two stations just a smidge short and the fuse pulls in just a bit there - I'm having to fit in some very thin fairing pieces along the edges of the top & bottom longerons to get a nice smooth, convex curve. This pull in was made worse by the fact that he also left the tailpost 1-1/2" wide. I'm still debating whether or not to try to deconstruct the tailpost area & make it right. KIp Gardner On Jan 17, 2010, at 10:34 AM, wrote: > The width of the long fuselage is the same as the short fuselage, > 24-inches at the front tapering to the tail as shown on the short > plans. Some people start the taper behind the rear seat for more > room for the back seat. > > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:42 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question > > Good morning, > The long fuselage plan supplement does not show the dimensions for > the width of the cross struts. I assume I don=92t use the dimensions > called out in the short version plans. I have the front fuselage > secure and the tail post glued. The curve to the tail looks nice, > should I cut the cross struts to fit as is, making sure the > dimensions for the top and respective bottom struts are the same > length? > Thanks, > Jack > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:15 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Exactly right, Jack. With the straight section of the fuselage secured and the tailpost glued, the wood will naturally assume a 4th order polynomial curve. Any attempt to change that curve would just add more stress to the wood for no purpose. Just make the cross struts fit, keeping everything square and symmetrical. It is easiest to keep everything square and in alignment if you invert the fuselage on your workbench, laying the top longerons flat against the tabletop, then keep the uprights plumb and square. See photo below: Note the plumb bobs hanging over the centerline to keep it all symmetrical. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Good morning, The long fuselage plan supplement does not show the dimensions for the width of the cross struts. I assume I don't use the dimensions called out in the short version plans. I have the front fuselage secure and the tail post glued. The curve to the tail looks nice, should I cut the cross struts to fit as is, making sure the dimensions for the top and respective bottom struts are the same length? Thanks, Jack ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:10 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage cross strut question Thanks to all, very helpful information! Jack DSM Do not archive Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:35:00 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:30 PM PST US From: santiago morete Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cool propeller shapes- need help finding brass tipping info Hi Dan, - Did you read pages 102 and 103, right? We sent our propeller to be partiall y covered with fiberglass but I would have liked to-frabricate-the meta l tipping. Maybe you can make a copy of the leading edge-in hard wood-and form the brass over it.-Wrinkles will appear, but you can cut the excess and then braze the cuts and sand the brazing to make it smooth.- Just an idea...I don't know. Saludos - Santiago - -=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo ! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to site From: "dgaldrich" The guy who built the one in Marquette is a friend of mine. Name is Dave VanDenburg and he teaches A&P at NMU. He's retired USAF and has built an RV-6 and a Kitfox. Also has several Model A's. I asked him why he didn't use one in his Pietenpol and he said he's walked home too many times to trust one in an airplane. Used a C-85 in his. 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