Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 01/30/10


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:30 AM - Re: Article on Ken Perkins (Jack)
     2. 05:50 AM - Re: Article on Ken Perkins (helspersew@aol.com)
     3. 10:38 AM - Re: Article on Ken Perkins (Ken Howe)
     4. 11:13 AM - cockpit metalwork (Gene Rambo)
     5. 12:32 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Jack Phillips)
     6. 12:59 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Gene Rambo)
     7. 01:23 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Jack Phillips)
     8. 01:41 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Don Emch)
     9. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: cockpit metalwork (Gene Rambo)
    10. 02:31 PM - cockpit metalwork (santiago morete)
    11. 02:31 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (auscar)
    12. 02:56 PM - Rear Seat belts (Jack)
    13. 03:16 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Gene Rambo)
    14. 03:42 PM - Miracle on the Hudson....Heart is in your throat...off topic but well worth it!! (helspersew@aol.com)
    15. 03:51 PM - Re: Article on Ken Perkins (Jeff Boatright)
    16. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: cockpit metalwork (Tim Willis)
    17. 09:47 PM - My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (Mark Roberts)
    18. 10:52 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (flea)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:30:30 AM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Article on Ken Perkins
    Agreed.super article. The archives for the magazine are outstanding, with hundreds of Piet articles. Jack DSM _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Article on Ken Perkins I just read the article in the new Sport Aviation about Ken Perkin's and his "Time Machine". Good article, and great publicity for Pietenpols. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:50:24 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Article on Ken Perkins
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Guys, This is a great article about a great airplane. I would imagine that we ar e going to get many newcomers to this list as a result of this article, an d increased attendance to this year's Brodhead. Welcome to all!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:38:56 AM PST US
    From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
    Subject: Re: Article on Ken Perkins
    It's not a Pietenpol, but my early morning picture of a Stampe on short final was picked as the member picture of the month in the new Sport Aviation. At least a Stampe is open cockpit and of all-wood construction. :) --Ken Jack Phillips wrote: > I just read the article in the new Sport Aviation about Ken Perkins and > his Time Machine. Good article, and great publicity for Pietenpols. > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > * > > > *


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:13:53 AM PST US
    From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo@msn.com>
    Subject: cockpit metalwork
    Re: Pietenpol-List: Article on Ken PerkinsOK, I am starting to cut metal to make my cockpit coaming. The plans show the metal, for example between the two cockpits as being made of two separate pieces. It is similar for the forward pieces. It looks like many of you have built your metal per the plans. I am wondering whether there is any practical reason for this? I would prefer to make it out of one piece. One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it looks like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument panel and the separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back, maybe to allow you to see the panel better. If that is the reason, I still do not want to do it, I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have ideas? Has anyone angled the rear pieces upwards? Gene


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:32:58 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: cockpit metalwork
    Gene, I think you could do it in one piece. The primary reason I didn=92t do that was that sheet aluminum comes in 4=92 wide sheets, which typically are rolled for shipping. If you make it one piece, you will be trying to roll it against (90=B0 from) the direction it =93wants=94 to curl. If you roll the aluminum the same way it was rolled for shipping, the 4=92 dimension brings you just aft of the front cockpit (see photo). Of course, with a Model A, you=92ve got some engine where I have baggage compartment, but still I think you want this cowling to reach to the firewall. Bear in mind that I have a little bit (maybe 3=94) of aluminum up above the longeron on mine. I think (I=92ve packed the plans away for our eventual move to Virginia and have no idea where they are now) the plans show the cockpit coamings right on top of the longerons, like Mike Cuy did on his. I wanted a bit more protection from the wind, and having those long thin sections of cowling that extend along the longerons just made one long piece way too flimsy and difficult to handle. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork OK, I am starting to cut metal to make my cockpit coaming. The plans show the metal, for example between the two cockpits as being made of two separate pieces. It is similar for the forward pieces. It looks like many of you have built your metal per the plans. I am wondering whether there is any practical reason for this? I would prefer to make it out of one piece. One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it looks like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument panel and the separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back, maybe to allow you to see the panel better. If that is the reason, I still do not want to do it, I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have ideas? Has anyone angled the rear pieces upwards? Gene


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:59:09 PM PST US
    From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
    Re: Pietenpol-List: Article on Ken PerkinsI am not talking about making the entire thing from one piece. If you look at the plans, there is the area of metal from the back of the front seat that goes aft and over the rear instrument panel. On the plans, that piece is made of two separate pieces, one from the front seat back to the rear instrument panel, and one curved piece from the rear instrument panel down to the sides that the cockpit padding is attached to. My question is whether there is any reason to make this from two pieces. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips<mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork Gene, I think you could do it in one piece. The primary reason I didn't do that was that sheet aluminum comes in 4' wide sheets, which typically are rolled for shipping. If you make it one piece, you will be trying to roll it against (90=B0 from) the direction it "wants" to curl. If you roll the aluminum the same way it was rolled for shipping, the 4' dimension brings you just aft of the front cockpit (see photo). Of course, with a Model A, you've got some engine where I have baggage compartment, but still I think you want this cowling to reach to the firewall. Bear in mind that I have a little bit (maybe 3") of aluminum up above the longeron on mine. I think (I've packed the plans away for our eventual move to Virginia and have no idea where they are now) the plans show the cockpit coamings right on top of the longerons, like Mike Cuy did on his. I wanted a bit more protection from the wind, and having those long thin sections of cowling that extend along the longerons just made one long piece way too flimsy and difficult to handle. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:12 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork OK, I am starting to cut metal to make my cockpit coaming. The plans show the metal, for example between the two cockpits as being made of two separate pieces. It is similar for the forward pieces. It looks like many of you have built your metal per the plans. I am wondering whether there is any practical reason for this? I would prefer to make it out of one piece. One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it looks like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument panel and the separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back, maybe to allow you to see the panel better. If that is the reason, I still do not want to do it, I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have ideas? Has anyone angled the rear pieces upwards? Gene http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 7


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    Time: 01:23:00 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: cockpit metalwork
    Can=92t help you with that ' as I said, I have put my plans away for the move and have no idea where I put them. They=92ll turn up eventually. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork I am not talking about making the entire thing from one piece. If you look at the plans, there is the area of metal from the back of the front seat that goes aft and over the rear instrument panel. On the plans, that piece is made of two separate pieces, one from the front seat back to the rear instrument panel, and one curved piece from the rear instrument panel down to the sides that the cockpit padding is attached to. My question is whether there is any reason to make this from two pieces. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork Gene, I think you could do it in one piece. The primary reason I didn=92t do that was that sheet aluminum comes in 4=92 wide sheets, which typically are rolled for shipping. If you make it one piece, you will be trying to roll it against (90=B0 from) the direction it =93wants=94 to curl. If you roll the aluminum the same way it was rolled for shipping, the 4=92 dimension brings you just aft of the front cockpit (see photo). Of course, with a Model A, you=92ve got some engine where I have baggage compartment, but still I think you want this cowling to reach to the firewall. Bear in mind that I have a little bit (maybe 3=94) of aluminum up above the longeron on mine. I think (I=92ve packed the plans away for our eventual move to Virginia and have no idea where they are now) the plans show the cockpit coamings right on top of the longerons, like Mike Cuy did on his. I wanted a bit more protection from the wind, and having those long thin sections of cowling that extend along the longerons just made one long piece way too flimsy and difficult to handle. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork OK, I am starting to cut metal to make my cockpit coaming. The plans show the metal, for example between the two cockpits as being made of two separate pieces. It is similar for the forward pieces. It looks like many of you have built your metal per the plans. I am wondering whether there is any practical reason for this? I would prefer to make it out of one piece. One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it looks like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument panel and the separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back, maybe to allow you to see the panel better. If that is the reason, I still do not want to do it, I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have ideas? Has anyone angled the rear pieces upwards? Gene http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:41:39 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    Hey Gene, My guess it is because the fuselage starts to taper from the rear instrument panel through the rear cockpit and on back. I suppose it makes it easier to make that piece because of the taper. However as long as you cut your one piece so that it allows for the taper, I can't see it being a problem. if I were making mine over again, I'd probably try it. It would make a cleaner installation for the mounting of the windshield. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:50:48 PM PST US
    From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
    Duh! Of course you're right, it is because of the taper. I would probably have seen this when I make cardboard patterns. I knew someone would have an answer. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Emch<mailto:EmchAir@aol.com> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cockpit metalwork <EmchAir@aol.com<mailto:EmchAir@aol.com>> Hey Gene, My guess it is because the fuselage starts to taper from the rear instrument panel through the rear cockpit and on back. I suppose it makes it easier to make that piece because of the taper. However as long as you cut your one piece so that it allows for the taper, I can't see it being a problem. if I were making mine over again, I'd probably try it. It would make a cleaner installation for the mounting of the windshield. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080<http://forums .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:31:12 PM PST US
    From: santiago morete <moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar>
    Subject: cockpit metalwork
    Hi Gene, - Ours is made in one piece, we had no problems with the taper in the rear co ckpit.- I-guess that piece-is angled upwards-to provide some protec tion from the wind because originally there was no windshields in the Air C amper, as you can see in the F&GM plans and some old photos, but I don't kn ow why that remains unchanged in the "improved Air Camper" plans. Saludos - Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:31:35 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
    From: "auscar" <tony.calvert@yahoo.com>
    I've been a lurker here for a while and being a dreamer not a builder I haven't contributed. But I feel my background as a vintage car alloy bodybuilder (past life) may be of benefit here. You should easily be able to get the amount of taper needed by rolling a longer piece of alloy as you would the shorter (two piece) version and then carefully hand forming a tighter curve in the end of the alloy. All you need is a curved surface a couple of inches less than the desired circumference to work it over. I'm not sure where the taper starts but if it is where the rear cockpit is it should be even easier just rough cut the cockpit hole to allow a bit more flexibility. If you want to get really fancy it is possible to do a ramp or lip that curves up at the front of each cockpit, although I'm not sure of effects on the aero. And the type of alloy used influences the workability. Some examples of whats possible with a bit of persistence and some hammers and home made tools http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/acalvert/jag.html Cheers Tony -------- Just Lurking Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284084#284084


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:56:58 PM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Rear Seat belts
    For the rear cockpit, from pictures I've seen, some have their shoulder belts exit from the top of the bulkhead and some from the bottom. Is there a preference for comfort and or safety? Thanks, Jack DSM


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:16:22 PM PST US
    From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
    Thanks Santiago! I was planning on making mine exactly like you have here, and now I will. Beautiful work, as usual!! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete<mailto:moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork Hi Gene, Ours is made in one piece, we had no problems with the taper in the rear cockpit. I guess that piece is angled upwards to provide some protection from the wind because originally there was no windshields in the Air Camper, as you can see in the F&GM plans and some old photos, but I don't know why that remains unchanged in the "improved Air Camper" plans. Saludos Santiago ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina. http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:42:08 PM PST US
    Subject: Miracle on the Hudson....Heart is in your throat...off
    topic but well worth it!!
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tE_5eiYn0D0#t=109


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:51:21 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: Article on Ken Perkins
    Great photo, Ken. > >It's not a Pietenpol, but my early morning picture of a Stampe on >short final was picked as the member picture of the month in the new >Sport Aviation. At least a Stampe is open cockpit and of all-wood >construction. :) > >--Ken >


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:01:59 PM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
    Tony, Mighty fancy metalwork. Lots of art as well as technique and patience there, and with great payoff. It looks like you are having fun with cars and boats. Planes next? Thanks for sharing, incl. your kayaks, and also links to CLC. I'm sharing the boats and boat links with a wooden boat guy in Chicago. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: auscar <tony.calvert@yahoo.com> >Sent: Jan 30, 2010 5:31 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cockpit metalwork > > >I've been a lurker here for a while and being a dreamer not a builder I haven't contributed. > >But I feel my background as a vintage car alloy bodybuilder (past life) may be of benefit here. > >You should easily be able to get the amount of taper needed by rolling a longer piece of alloy as you would the shorter (two piece) version and then carefully hand forming a tighter curve in the end of the alloy. All you need is a curved surface a couple of inches less than the desired circumference to work it over. I'm not sure where the taper starts but if it is where the rear cockpit is it should be even easier just rough cut the cockpit hole to allow a bit more flexibility. > >If you want to get really fancy it is possible to do a ramp or lip that curves up at the front of each cockpit, although I'm not sure of effects on the aero. And the type of alloy used influences the workability. > >Some examples of whats possible with a bit of persistence and some hammers and home made tools >http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/acalvert/jag.html > >Cheers Tony > >-------- >Just Lurking > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284084#284084 > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:47:17 PM PST US
    Subject: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
    From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
    OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we both were 'available' to start a new business.... BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig perfectly following the coordinates... Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts for one rib! Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy :o) place I was very excited. I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? "Right there in that stack..." So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having fun! :o) Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff I must do... Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! Mark


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:52:53 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
    From: "flea" <jimgriggs@yahoo.com>
    Well first off congratulations on putting yourself back to work. I must say that I would be very interested in getting a price at the very least for a wing kit. The big thing I would be interested in would be the Jig. I've been messin around some with building ribs, and have come to the conclusion that my rib jig needs a jig. I'm really not ready to build the wing yet, but Uncle Obama screwed up and is giving me some money back, so this is the right time for me to make just such an investment. If you can get the legalities worked out and get something packaged up for a reasonable price I'd sure like to know about it. Jim. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284131#284131




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