Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:30 AM - Re: Article on Ken Perkins (Jack)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Article on Ken Perkins (helspersew@aol.com)
3. 10:38 AM - Re: Article on Ken Perkins (Ken Howe)
4. 11:13 AM - cockpit metalwork (Gene Rambo)
5. 12:32 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Jack Phillips)
6. 12:59 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Gene Rambo)
7. 01:23 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Jack Phillips)
8. 01:41 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Don Emch)
9. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: cockpit metalwork (Gene Rambo)
10. 02:31 PM - cockpit metalwork (santiago morete)
11. 02:31 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (auscar)
12. 02:56 PM - Rear Seat belts (Jack)
13. 03:16 PM - Re: cockpit metalwork (Gene Rambo)
14. 03:42 PM - Miracle on the Hudson....Heart is in your throat...off topic but well worth it!! (helspersew@aol.com)
15. 03:51 PM - Re: Article on Ken Perkins (Jeff Boatright)
16. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: cockpit metalwork (Tim Willis)
17. 09:47 PM - My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (Mark Roberts)
18. 10:52 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (flea)
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Subject: | Article on Ken Perkins |
Agreed.super article. The archives for the magazine are outstanding, with
hundreds of Piet articles.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Article on Ken Perkins
I just read the article in the new Sport Aviation about Ken Perkin's and his
"Time Machine". Good article, and great publicity for Pietenpols.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
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Subject: | Re: Article on Ken Perkins |
Guys,
This is a great article about a great airplane. I would imagine that we ar
e going to get many newcomers to this list as a result of this article, an
d increased attendance to this year's Brodhead. Welcome to all!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
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Subject: | Re: Article on Ken Perkins |
It's not a Pietenpol, but my early morning picture of a Stampe on short
final was picked as the member picture of the month in the new Sport
Aviation. At least a Stampe is open cockpit and of all-wood construction. :)
--Ken
Jack Phillips wrote:
> I just read the article in the new Sport Aviation about Ken Perkins and
> his Time Machine. Good article, and great publicity for Pietenpols.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
> *
>
>
> *
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Subject: | cockpit metalwork |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Article on Ken PerkinsOK, I am starting to cut metal
to make my cockpit coaming. The plans show the metal, for example
between the two cockpits as being made of two separate pieces. It is
similar for the forward pieces. It looks like many of you have built
your metal per the plans. I am wondering whether there is any practical
reason for this? I would prefer to make it out of one piece.
One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it
looks like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument
panel and the separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back,
maybe to allow you to see the panel better. If that is the reason, I
still do not want to do it, I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have
ideas? Has anyone angled the rear pieces upwards?
Gene
Message 5
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Subject: | cockpit metalwork |
Gene, I think you could do it in one piece. The primary reason I
didn=92t do
that was that sheet aluminum comes in 4=92 wide sheets, which typically
are
rolled for shipping. If you make it one piece, you will be trying to
roll
it against (90=B0 from) the direction it =93wants=94 to curl. If you
roll the
aluminum the same way it was rolled for shipping, the 4=92 dimension
brings
you just aft of the front cockpit (see photo). Of course, with a Model
A,
you=92ve got some engine where I have baggage compartment, but still I
think
you want this cowling to reach to the firewall.
Bear in mind that I have a little bit (maybe 3=94) of aluminum up above
the
longeron on mine. I think (I=92ve packed the plans away for our
eventual move
to Virginia and have no idea where they are now) the plans show the
cockpit
coamings right on top of the longerons, like Mike Cuy did on his. I
wanted
a bit more protection from the wind, and having those long thin sections
of
cowling that extend along the longerons just made one long piece way too
flimsy and difficult to handle.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork
OK, I am starting to cut metal to make my cockpit coaming. The plans
show
the metal, for example between the two cockpits as being made of two
separate pieces. It is similar for the forward pieces. It looks like
many
of you have built your metal per the plans. I am wondering whether
there is
any practical reason for this? I would prefer to make it out of one
piece.
One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it
looks
like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument panel and
the
separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back, maybe to allow you
to
see the panel better. If that is the reason, I still do not want to do
it,
I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have ideas? Has anyone angled
the
rear pieces upwards?
Gene
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: cockpit metalwork |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Article on Ken PerkinsI am not talking about making
the entire thing from one piece. If you look at the plans, there is the
area of metal from the back of the front seat that goes aft and over the
rear instrument panel. On the plans, that piece is made of two separate
pieces, one from the front seat back to the rear instrument panel, and
one curved piece from the rear instrument panel down to the sides that
the cockpit padding is attached to. My question is whether there is any
reason to make this from two pieces.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips<mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork
Gene, I think you could do it in one piece. The primary reason I
didn't do that was that sheet aluminum comes in 4' wide sheets, which
typically are rolled for shipping. If you make it one piece, you will
be trying to roll it against (90=B0 from) the direction it "wants" to
curl. If you roll the aluminum the same way it was rolled for shipping,
the 4' dimension brings you just aft of the front cockpit (see photo).
Of course, with a Model A, you've got some engine where I have baggage
compartment, but still I think you want this cowling to reach to the
firewall.
Bear in mind that I have a little bit (maybe 3") of aluminum up above
the longeron on mine. I think (I've packed the plans away for our
eventual move to Virginia and have no idea where they are now) the plans
show the cockpit coamings right on top of the longerons, like Mike Cuy
did on his. I wanted a bit more protection from the wind, and having
those long thin sections of cowling that extend along the longerons just
made one long piece way too flimsy and difficult to handle.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:12 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork
OK, I am starting to cut metal to make my cockpit coaming. The plans
show the metal, for example between the two cockpits as being made of
two separate pieces. It is similar for the forward pieces. It looks
like many of you have built your metal per the plans. I am wondering
whether there is any practical reason for this? I would prefer to make
it out of one piece.
One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it
looks like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument
panel and the separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back,
maybe to allow you to see the panel better. If that is the reason, I
still do not want to do it, I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have
ideas? Has anyone angled the rear pieces upwards?
Gene
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 7
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Subject: | cockpit metalwork |
Can=92t help you with that ' as I said, I have put my plans away for
the move
and have no idea where I put them. They=92ll turn up eventually.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork
I am not talking about making the entire thing from one piece. If you
look
at the plans, there is the area of metal from the back of the front seat
that goes aft and over the rear instrument panel. On the plans, that
piece
is made of two separate pieces, one from the front seat back to the rear
instrument panel, and one curved piece from the rear instrument panel
down
to the sides that the cockpit padding is attached to. My question is
whether there is any reason to make this from two pieces.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork
Gene, I think you could do it in one piece. The primary reason I
didn=92t do
that was that sheet aluminum comes in 4=92 wide sheets, which typically
are
rolled for shipping. If you make it one piece, you will be trying to
roll
it against (90=B0 from) the direction it =93wants=94 to curl. If you
roll the
aluminum the same way it was rolled for shipping, the 4=92 dimension
brings
you just aft of the front cockpit (see photo). Of course, with a Model
A,
you=92ve got some engine where I have baggage compartment, but still I
think
you want this cowling to reach to the firewall.
Bear in mind that I have a little bit (maybe 3=94) of aluminum up above
the
longeron on mine. I think (I=92ve packed the plans away for our
eventual move
to Virginia and have no idea where they are now) the plans show the
cockpit
coamings right on top of the longerons, like Mike Cuy did on his. I
wanted
a bit more protection from the wind, and having those long thin sections
of
cowling that extend along the longerons just made one long piece way too
flimsy and difficult to handle.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork
OK, I am starting to cut metal to make my cockpit coaming. The plans
show
the metal, for example between the two cockpits as being made of two
separate pieces. It is similar for the forward pieces. It looks like
many
of you have built your metal per the plans. I am wondering whether
there is
any practical reason for this? I would prefer to make it out of one
piece.
One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it
looks
like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument panel and
the
separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back, maybe to allow you
to
see the panel better. If that is the reason, I still do not want to do
it,
I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have ideas? Has anyone angled
the
rear pieces upwards?
Gene
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Subject: | Re: cockpit metalwork |
Hey Gene,
My guess it is because the fuselage starts to taper from the rear instrument panel
through the rear cockpit and on back. I suppose it makes it easier to make
that piece because of the taper. However as long as you cut your one piece
so that it allows for the taper, I can't see it being a problem. if I were making
mine over again, I'd probably try it. It would make a cleaner installation
for the mounting of the windshield.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080
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Subject: | Re: cockpit metalwork |
Duh! Of course you're right, it is because of the taper. I would
probably have seen this when I make cardboard patterns. I knew someone
would have an answer.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Emch<mailto:EmchAir@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cockpit metalwork
<EmchAir@aol.com<mailto:EmchAir@aol.com>>
Hey Gene,
My guess it is because the fuselage starts to taper from the rear
instrument panel through the rear cockpit and on back. I suppose it
makes it easier to make that piece because of the taper. However as
long as you cut your one piece so that it allows for the taper, I can't
see it being a problem. if I were making mine over again, I'd probably
try it. It would make a cleaner installation for the mounting of the
windshield.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 10
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Subject: | cockpit metalwork |
Hi Gene,
-
Ours is made in one piece, we had no problems with the taper in the rear co
ckpit.- I-guess that piece-is angled upwards-to provide some protec
tion from the wind because originally there was no windshields in the Air C
amper, as you can see in the F&GM plans and some old photos, but I don't kn
ow why that remains unchanged in the "improved Air Camper" plans.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: cockpit metalwork |
I've been a lurker here for a while and being a dreamer not a builder I haven't
contributed.
But I feel my background as a vintage car alloy bodybuilder (past life) may be
of benefit here.
You should easily be able to get the amount of taper needed by rolling a longer
piece of alloy as you would the shorter (two piece) version and then carefully
hand forming a tighter curve in the end of the alloy. All you need is a curved
surface a couple of inches less than the desired circumference to work it
over. I'm not sure where the taper starts but if it is where the rear cockpit
is it should be even easier just rough cut the cockpit hole to allow a bit more
flexibility.
If you want to get really fancy it is possible to do a ramp or lip that curves
up at the front of each cockpit, although I'm not sure of effects on the aero.
And the type of alloy used influences the workability.
Some examples of whats possible with a bit of persistence and some hammers and
home made tools
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/acalvert/jag.html
Cheers Tony
--------
Just Lurking
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284084#284084
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For the rear cockpit, from pictures I've seen, some have their shoulder
belts exit from the top of the bulkhead and some from the bottom. Is there
a preference for comfort and or safety?
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: cockpit metalwork |
Thanks Santiago! I was planning on making mine exactly like you have
here, and now I will. Beautiful work, as usual!!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete<mailto:moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork
Hi Gene,
Ours is made in one piece, we had no problems with the taper in
the rear cockpit. I guess that piece is angled upwards to provide some
protection from the wind because originally there was no windshields in
the Air Camper, as you can see in the F&GM plans and some old photos,
but I don't know why that remains unchanged in the "improved Air Camper"
plans.
Saludos
Santiago
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 14
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Subject: | Miracle on the Hudson....Heart is in your throat...off |
topic but well worth it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tE_5eiYn0D0#t=109
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Subject: | Re: Article on Ken Perkins |
Great photo, Ken.
>
>It's not a Pietenpol, but my early morning picture of a Stampe on
>short final was picked as the member picture of the month in the new
>Sport Aviation. At least a Stampe is open cockpit and of all-wood
>construction. :)
>
>--Ken
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: cockpit metalwork |
Tony,
Mighty fancy metalwork. Lots of art as well as technique and patience there, and
with great payoff. It looks like you are having fun with cars and boats.
Planes next?
Thanks for sharing, incl. your kayaks, and also links to CLC. I'm sharing the
boats and boat links with a wooden boat guy in Chicago.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: auscar <tony.calvert@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jan 30, 2010 5:31 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cockpit metalwork
>
>
>I've been a lurker here for a while and being a dreamer not a builder I haven't
contributed.
>
>But I feel my background as a vintage car alloy bodybuilder (past life) may be
of benefit here.
>
>You should easily be able to get the amount of taper needed by rolling a longer
piece of alloy as you would the shorter (two piece) version and then carefully
hand forming a tighter curve in the end of the alloy. All you need is a curved
surface a couple of inches less than the desired circumference to work it
over. I'm not sure where the taper starts but if it is where the rear cockpit
is it should be even easier just rough cut the cockpit hole to allow a bit more
flexibility.
>
>If you want to get really fancy it is possible to do a ramp or lip that curves
up at the front of each cockpit, although I'm not sure of effects on the aero.
And the type of alloy used influences the workability.
>
>Some examples of whats possible with a bit of persistence and some hammers and
home made tools
>http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/acalvert/jag.html
>
>Cheers Tony
>
>--------
>Just Lurking
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284084#284084
>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in September, I have
made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I am getting no calls from the
recruiters and job boards, I decided to team up with a friend and start a
wooden sign business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop.
I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it is a good
match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a professional CNC router.
In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I that we had full reign over the
router, and he wanted us to run it full time to make money. See Jason was
laid off too, so we both were 'available' to start a new business....
BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs and wing kits
for various planes. I am not sure of the legalities involved, but I knew I
needed a good Riblett 613.5 wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and
brought them into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig
perfectly following the coordinates...
Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size with the CNC
to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into the program and ran it
today at the shop and got press-to-fit perfect parts! It is something to see
a part fit into place with almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to
cut the parts for one rib!
Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and bottom cap
strips done, and I still need to cut the new pre-bending jig yet, but when I
finished snapping the parts in (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est
right for some epoxy :o) place I was very excited.
I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil and I am
looking into the legalities of making a few kits for those that might want a
jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap strip and cut pieces that will save ya
from having to cut all of those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets)
for this wing.
What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went in there and
found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never heard of before) and asked
if he carried Sitka Spruce, he pointed to a bin and said "There sits some
certified Sitka Spar stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my
gussets? "Right there in that stack..."
So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for myself.
Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having fun! :o)
Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the Leading
Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or two, I can work up
some numbers once I find out what legal stuff I must do...
Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress!
Mark
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
Well first off congratulations on putting yourself back to work.
I must say that I would be very interested in getting a price at the very least
for a wing kit. The big thing I would be interested in would be the Jig. I've
been messin around some with building ribs, and have come to the conclusion that
my rib jig needs a jig. I'm really not ready to build the wing yet, but Uncle
Obama screwed up and is giving me some money back, so this is the right time
for me to make just such an investment. If you can get the legalities worked
out and get something packaged up for a reasonable price I'd sure like to know
about it.
Jim.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284131#284131
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