Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:51 AM - NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Jack Phillips)
3. 06:41 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Jack)
4. 06:56 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Jim Markle)
5. 07:30 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Pieti Lowell)
6. 07:45 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Michael Perez)
7. 08:04 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Steve Ruse)
8. 08:15 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Rick Holland)
9. 08:24 AM - congratulations Douwe ! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
10. 08:45 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (ALAN LYSCARS)
11. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: cold weather flying (Rick Holland)
12. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Jim Markle)
13. 09:32 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (Lagowski Morrow)
14. 09:34 AM - Re: cold weather flying (kevinpurtee)
15. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: cold weather flying (Dan Yocum)
16. 10:15 AM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (Dan Yocum)
17. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: cold weather flying (Mike)
18. 10:37 AM - cold weather flying--from Mike Hardaway (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
19. 10:39 AM - Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) (V Groah)
20. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: cold weather flying (Jack Phillips)
21. 11:42 AM - Re: Re: cold weather flying (Michael Perez)
22. 01:10 PM - A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
23. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: cold weather flying (Jack Phillips)
24. 01:24 PM - NX799 finished! (helspersew@aol.com)
25. 02:13 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (Mark Roberts)
26. 02:17 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (Owen Davies)
27. 02:26 PM - cold weather flying (Oscar Zuniga)
28. 02:42 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (Dan Yocum)
29. 02:43 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (David Paule)
30. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: cold weather flying (Rick Holland)
31. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: cold weather flying (Ryan Mueller)
32. 03:48 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (Jim Ash)
33. 04:28 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (Gene Rambo)
34. 06:35 PM - Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! (wildhorsesracing)
35. 07:01 PM - Ken Perkin's Ford A (Dan Yocum)
36. 07:25 PM - Re: Ken Perkin's Ford A (Ryan Mueller)
37. 08:23 PM - Re: Ken Perkin's Ford A (Dan Yocum)
38. 11:03 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
39. 11:04 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself)
Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think
because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep
double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't seem
to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint
touch ups here and there.
We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as
my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury
strut off the port side.
Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the late
ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he
died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd
love to send her a photo.
It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her
inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine
running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand
so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the
plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections,
linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done
with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2.
I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and
help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead
or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. Thanks
for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" run
ups.
So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to be
born.
Douwe
Message 2
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| Subject: | NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
GREAT NEWS, Douwe!
I can hardly wait to see it at Brodhead this year.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
<douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself)
Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think
because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep
double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't seem
to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint
touch ups here and there.
We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as
my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury
strut off the port side.
Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the late
ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he
died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd
love to send her a photo.
It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her
inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine
running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand
so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the
plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections,
linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done
with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2.
I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and
help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead
or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. Thanks
for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" run
ups.
So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to be
born.
Douwe
Message 3
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| Subject: | NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
Douwe,
Congratulations on a job well done.
Be safe my friend!
Jack
DSM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
Wow, congratulations! I can hardly wait to see it...and hear it!
>From cooooold Warsaw IN....jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:55 AM
>To: pietenpolgroup <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
>
>
>Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself)
>
>Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think
>because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep
>double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't seem
>to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint
>touch ups here and there.
>
>We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as
>my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury
>strut off the port side.
>
>Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the late
>ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he
>died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd
>love to send her a photo.
>
>It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her
>inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine
>running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand
>so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the
>plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections,
>linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done
>with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2.
>
>I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and
>help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead
>or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. Thanks
>for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" run
>ups.
>
>So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to be
>born.
>
>Douwe
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
Douwe:
I celebrated your Chapter 1 by spending 30 minutes in my Piet on the 31St Jan.,
A bit chilly in Wis (20 Deg.) but not bad behind a warm radiator.
Also spent some time flying my friends Fairchild F-24-R46, He had a stroke a number
of years ago but kept his Fairchild, took a little doing getting him in his
plane , but his expressions were fantastic to watch.
I'm looking forward to your reactions as Chapter 2 commences.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284355#284355
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
Very cool! That must be quite a feeling having it all together and ready to
fly! I look forward to that day myself. I would be interested in a picture
or two. (directly to me if you prefer.)
-
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
Negative on that last remark...we all need to see the pictures!
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>:
> Very cool! That must be quite a feeling having it all together and
> ready to fly! I look forward to that day myself. I would be
> interested in a picture or two. (directly to me if you prefer.)
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
Great work Douwe.
Rick
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Douwe Blumberg
<douweblumberg@earthlink.net>wrote:
> douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>
> Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself)
>
> Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think
> because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep
> double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't
> seem
> to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint
> touch ups here and there.
>
> We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as
> my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury
> strut off the port side.
>
> Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the late
> ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he
> died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd
> love to send her a photo.
>
> It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her
> inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine
> running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand
> so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the
> plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections,
> linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done
> with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2.
>
> I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and
> help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead
> or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project.
> Thanks
> for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane"
> run
> ups.
>
> So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to
> be
> born.
>
> Douwe
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 9
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| Subject: | congratulations Douwe ! |
Douwe sent some photos to the list a few weeks ago as I recall but I don't
have them saved anywhere.
And if I may Douwe, once the plane is reassembled at your local airport wil
l you being doing the maiden flight ?
Will you be based at an airport with turf runways by chance ?
You get high marks on perseverance man !
Mike C.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
Hearty Congrats Douwe..
Keep 'em Flyin'!!
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Douwe Blumberg
<douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote:
<douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself)
Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I
think
because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I
keep
double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but
can't seem
to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments
and paint
touch ups here and there.
snip
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
Great idea, kind of like those Tonneau covers they make for MGs and other
sports cars:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MGB-TONNEAU-COVER-NEW-1193H-ROBBINS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2ea86275b2QQitemZ200393520562QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
My uncle had one on his MG when I was a kid, and based on those memories I
have been planning on making a full cover for the front cockpit which
several of you guys have mentioned did help in the winter. And a kind of
Kayak seal for the back cockpit is a great idea.
rick
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:16 PM, David Paule <dpaule@frii.com> wrote:
>
> I learned aerobatics out in Southern California in an open-cockpit airplane
> when I was a lot younger. Even in the summer, over Malibu, we needed to wear
> gloves. I foolishly made a molded control stick grip then that still fits my
> hand like a glove. That was the problem: I wasn't wearing gloves when I made
> it, and it didn't fit when I put my flying gloves on.
>
> So if you're making cockpit controls, see if you can use them while wearing
> gloves.
>
> Another man built a nice Fly-Baby. He had a clever cover. It snapped around
> the cockpit rim at the level of the longerons and just below the instrument
> panel. The cover had a jacket collar and zipper. He'd get in and zip it up
> and from the neck down, he was in a closed-cockpit airplane. He said it was
> very comfortable, flying with that.
>
> David Paule
>
>
>> Hi Oscar,
>>
>> It has been in the teens here in upstate NY for some time now. Below zero
>> at night. Only flying I have been doing is in the shop.
>>
>> I agree with your choice of hand wear. My hands get cold easy so when it
>> gets really cold I wear down mitts with knit wool gloves as liners. This
>> allows me to take my hand out of the mitt and have use of my fingers for a
>> couple of minutes without them loosing their heat. I use this method when
>> x-country skiing.
>>
>> I have been wondering lately what it would be like flying in the winter in
>> an open cockpit airplane?
>>
>> Jon Coxwell
>>
>> --------
>> Jon Coxwell
>> GN-1 Builder
>> Recycle and preserve the planet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284292#284292
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
>Also spent some time flying my friends Fairchild F-24-R46, He had a stroke a number
of years ago but kept his Fairchild, took a little doing getting him in
his plane , but his expressions were fantastic to watch.
Now THAT'S what it's all about....
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
CONGRATS!--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
> <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>
> Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself)
>
> Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think
> because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep
> double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't
> seem
> to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and
> paint
> touch ups here and there.
>
> We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as
> my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury
> strut off the port side.
>
> Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the
> late
> ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he
> died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd
> love to send her a photo.
>
> It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her
> inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine
> running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand
> so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the
> plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections,
> linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done
> with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2.
>
> I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and
> help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead
> or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project.
> Thanks
> for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane"
> run
> ups.
>
> So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to
> be
> born.
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure learning
about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. Yesterday
I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to Longview.
It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper 40s by the afternoon.
I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're ok. Need the individual
fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If you don't use those
things then the mitts would likely work great.
My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks. Not
enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy flight
jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have my canvas
helmet over that.
I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit.
I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it wupped
my butt.
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
Kevin,
How tall is your windscreen? I'm about to replace mine 'cause the 9"1/2
tall one I've got on the pilot 'pit just ain't cuttin' it for me. Too
much wind gets down the back of my neck, even on a "warm" day.
And, from what I understand, yes, putting a cover on the front cockpit
helps keep your feet warmer. Of course, you could go nuts and put a
cockpit heater in there, too.
Cheers,
Dan
On 02/01/2010 11:33 AM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "kevinpurtee"<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure learning
about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. Yesterday
I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out& back) from Houston to Longview.
It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700& warmed to the upper 40s by the afternoon.
I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're ok. Need the
individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If you don't use those
things then the mitts would likely work great.
>
> My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks. Not
enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy flight
jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have my canvas
helmet over that.
>
> I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit.
>
> I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it
wupped my butt.
>
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Houston
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
Mark,
Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here:
http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting
The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, too.
These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar locations,
so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get measurements
off that.
Cheers,
Dan
On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
> Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o)
>
> Hey Chet!
>
> I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need
> folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You
> can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley <chethartley1@mchsi.com
> <mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>> wrote:
>
> Mark,
> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig.
> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well?
> Chet Hartley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mark Roberts <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
>
> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in
> September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I
> am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I
> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign
> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop.
> I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it
> is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a
> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I
> that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run
> it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we
> both were 'available' to start a new business....
>
> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs
> and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the
> legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5
> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them
> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig
> perfectly following the coordinates...
>
> Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size
> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into
> the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit
> perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with
> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts
> for one rib!
>
> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and
> bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new
> pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in
> (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy
> :o) place I was very excited.
>
> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil
> and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for
> those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap
> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of
> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing.
>
> What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went
> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never
> heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he
> pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar
> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets?
> "Right there in that stack..."
>
> So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for
> myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having
> fun! :o)
>
> Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the
> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or
> two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff
> I must do...
>
> Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress!
>
> Mark
>
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
Cold-weather flyers: Take a tip from cold-weather motorcyclists.
http://www.gerbing.com/
I use their gloves and vest; high quality stuff that really works. I've
been comfortable in 15F at 70 mph.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
--> <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure
learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months.
Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to
Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper
40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're
ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If
you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great.
My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks.
Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy
flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have
my canvas helmet over that.
I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit.
I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it
wupped my butt.
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386
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| Subject: | cold weather flying--from Mike Hardaway |
Cold-weather flyers: Take a tip from cold-weather motorcyclists.
http://www.gerbing.com/
I use their gloves and vest; high quality stuff that really works. I've been comfortable
in 15F at 70 mph.
Mike Hardaway
papa.bike.mike@gmail.com
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| Subject: | NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) |
WOW=2C great! I can imagine the good feelings. We hope to be at that stag
e some time next year. We feel great for you. Have heard you have done a
great job. We cannot go to Brodhead so maybe you will post some photos for
those of us tethered to the west coast. Vic NX414MV
> From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
> Date: Mon=2C 1 Feb 2010 08:55:08 -0500
>
thlink.net>
>
> Well gang=2C (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself)
>
> Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think
> because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep
> double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists=2C but can't
seem
> to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and pai
nt
> touch ups here and there.
>
> We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted a
s
> my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury
> strut off the port side.
>
> Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall=2C and lovingly brought along until the
late
> ninties when his health stopped work=2C I bought the project in 03' when
he
> died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive=2C I'd
> love to send her a photo.
>
> It is kinda weird to be done=2C but I am very excited about getting her
> inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engin
e
> running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand
> so most of the bugs are worked out=2C but I haven't run the engine in the
> plane=2C so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections=2C
> linkages=2C etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm don
e
> with chapter 1=2C and getting ready to start work on chapter 2.
>
> I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement an
d
> help from the guys on this list=2C my annual re-energizing trips to Brodh
ead
> or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. Than
ks
> for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" r
un
> ups.
>
> So hopefully=2C another Ford powered=2C Jenny-geared time machine is abou
t to be
> born.
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of
difference. Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain
Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving. Temps were in the upper
thirties. The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a half.
With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty
comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool
balaclava that covered my face). The heater doesn't do much other than warm
my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure
learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months.
Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to
Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper
40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're
ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If
you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great.
My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks.
Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy
flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have
my canvas helmet over that.
I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit.
I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it
wupped my butt.
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
Copy that Jack. I too plan on having some type of duct work for heat for bo
th front and rear seats. I assume you have them on/near the floor for your
feet. Any pictures?
--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
et>
I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of
difference.- Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain
Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving.- Temps were in the uppe
r
thirties.- The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a hal
f.
With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty
comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool
balaclava that covered my face).- The heater doesn't do much other than w
arm
my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure
learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months.
Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to
Longview.- It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the uppe
r
40s by the afternoon.- I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they'
re
ok.- Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons.
- If
you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great.
My toes were the coldest thing on me.- Was wearing boots and heavy socks.
Not enough!- Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a hea
vy
flight jacket and a ski jacket.- I wear a full-face stocking and then hav
e
my canvas helmet over that.
I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit.
I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, i
t
wupped my butt.
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386
le, List Admin.
Message 22
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| Subject: | A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder |
A steel tube Rotec powered Piet in the works---- watch the video for a peek
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhAE2lYCS8
(This gent is not on the discussion list but has contacted me offlist and I
'll forward any updates from him !)
Mike C.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
Just a hole in the firewall near the floor. Nothing for the rear seat.
Here's the only picture I have that shows it. The heat box was a
"homebuilder's special" from AS&S
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
Copy that Jack. I too plan on having some type of duct work for heat for
both front and rear seats. I assume you have them on/near the floor for your
feet. Any pictures?
--- On Mon, 2/1/10, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net
<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietflyr@bellsouth.net> >
I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of
difference. Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain
Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving. Temps were in the upper
thirties. The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a half.
With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty
comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool
balaclava that covered my face). The heater doesn't do much other than warm
my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma
tronics.com>
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma
tronics.com> ] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM
<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
<kevin.purtee@us.army.mil
<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> >
I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure
learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months.
Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to
Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper
40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're
ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If
you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great.
My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks.
Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy
flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have
my canvas helmet over that.
I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit.
I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it
wupped my butt.
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet A
href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matrobsp;
- List Contribution Web Site -http://www======================
Message 24
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WOW!!
Great news Douwe! Congratulations on arriving at a looooong sought goal.
All of on this list can appreciate where you have been, and where you are
now. Can't wait to see it and you at Brodhead. Your airplane is surely on
e of your greatest works of art. What a feeling it must be to be at the en
d of the "to do" list, and have nothing left to do. Reminds me of that sce
ne in "Lilies of the Field" when the mother superior keeps asking Sydney
Portier if he remembered to complete this and that (when he was building
the chapel), and he just kept repeating "it's done, it's done".
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the
entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it appears
to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and post it for
all.
I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I can
find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for the
ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by the
builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling the
wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut
dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the individual
components like a large model airplane kit....
I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this...
Thanks for any direction guys!
Mark
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here:
>
> http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting
>
> The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, too.
>
> These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar locations, so
> it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get measurements off
> that.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
>
> On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
>
>> Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o)
>>
>> Hey Chet!
>>
>> I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need
>> folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You
>> can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley <chethartley1@mchsi.com
>> <mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig.
>> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well?
>> Chet Hartley
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Mark Roberts <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>> *To:* pietenpol-list <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM
>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
>>
>> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in
>> September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I
>> am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I
>> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign
>> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop.
>> I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it
>> is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a
>> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I
>> that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run
>> it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we
>> both were 'available' to start a new business....
>>
>> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs
>> and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the
>> legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5
>> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them
>> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig
>> perfectly following the coordinates...
>>
>> Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size
>> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into
>> the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit
>> perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with
>> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts
>> for one rib!
>>
>> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and
>> bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new
>> pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in
>> (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy
>> :o) place I was very excited.
>>
>> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil
>> and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for
>> those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap
>> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of
>> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing.
>>
>> What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went
>> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never
>> heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he
>> pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar
>> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets?
>> "Right there in that stack..."
>>
>> So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for
>> myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having
>> fun! :o)
>>
>> Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the
>> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or
>> two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff
>> I must do...
>>
>> Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress!
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
On 2/1/2010 1:06 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
> http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting
That address gives a 404 error. Clip it to
http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html to get through.
Owen
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| Subject: | cold weather flying |
Jack; that photo of your (bare) fuselage and
firewall is excellent, and should provide a
very good study for those who are still in the
layout and construction mode. Many, many
details are visible in that photo and a lot
can be learned by careful study of how things
are routed and laid out. Excellent photo!
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
Mark,
There are guys who have, in the past, sold fully built ribs without a
worry. I've heard tell that a full set of 20 fully constructed ribs
would cost $300. So, I don't think there would be any problem selling
the pre-cut pieces and letting the buyer put 'em together themselves.
Cheers,
Dan
On 02/01/2010 04:12 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:
> Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the
> entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it
> appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and
> post it for all.
>
> I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I
> can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for
> the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by
> the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling
> the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut
> dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the
> individual components like a large model airplane kit....
>
> I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this...
>
> Thanks for any direction guys!
>
> Mark
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>>
>
> Mark,
>
> Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here:
>
> http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting
>
> The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that
> database, too.
>
> These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar
> locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and
> get measurements off that.
>
> Cheers,
> Dan
>
>
> On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
>
> Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o)
>
> Hey Chet!
>
> I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils
> and I need
> folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils,
> etc. You
> can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley
> <chethartley1@mchsi.com <mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>
> <mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com <mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>>>
> wrote:
>
> Mark,
> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig.
> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well?
> Chet Hartley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mark Roberts <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com
> <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>>
> *To:* pietenpol-list
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
>
> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in
> September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build.
> Since I
> am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I
> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign
> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood
> shop.
> I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came
> about, but it
> is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a
> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told
> Jason and I
> that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us
> to run
> it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too,
> so we
> both were 'available' to start a new business....
>
> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional
> wing jigs
> and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the
> legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett
> 613.5
> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought
> them
> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new
> peg jig
> perfectly following the coordinates...
>
> Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to
> size
> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew
> them into
> the program and ran it today at the shop and got
> press-to-fit
> perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into
> place with
> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut
> the parts
> for one rib!
>
> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the
> top and
> bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new
> pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the
> parts in
> (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for
> some epoxy
> :o) place I was very excited.
>
> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5
> airfoil
> and I am looking into the legalities of making a few
> kits for
> those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap
> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to
> cut all of
> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for
> this wing.
>
> What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I
> first went
> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd
> never
> heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he
> pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified
> Sitka Spar
> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets?
> "Right there in that stack..."
>
> So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for
> myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but
> I'm having
> fun! :o)
>
> Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and
> trim the
> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential
> kit or
> two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what
> legal stuff
> I must do...
>
> Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make
> progress!
>
> Mark
>
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
I'm not an attorney, but here goes anyway:
More than likely, you'll find that while it might be entirely possible
to fight off a lawsuit, you have no way to prevent someone from filing
one in the first place. And fighting one off will not be cheap. But the
probability of being sued is low.
If you make the wood parts to match someone else's design, that adds a
layer to your possible defense. If you design the parts too, then that
adds to your potential liability.
It might be worth seeking business liability insurance, so that in the
unlikely event you do get sued, you've got some deep pockets on your
side.
Other than that, get the business started. Fear of failure prevented
more good ideas from being realized than actual negligence.
Now these are merely my own suggestions, and as I mentioned, I'm
unqualified to give legal advice, and besides that, this is FREE, so you
know what it's worth. But I've started and run two companies
successfully. One was an aerospace structural analysis consultancy
(where I never even bothered with the insurance), the other was in real
estate management (where I do carry insurance).
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Roberts
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded
the entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it
appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and
post it for all.
I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I
can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for
the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by
the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling
the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut
dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the
individual components like a large model airplane kit....
I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on
this...
Thanks for any direction guys!
Mark
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
Mark,
Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here:
http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+loftin
g
The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that
database, too.
These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar
locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get
measurements off that.
Cheers,
Dan
On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o)
Hey Chet!
I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and
I need
folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils,
etc. You
can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904.
Thanks!
Mark
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley
<chethartley1@mchsi.com
<mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>> wrote:
Mark,
I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig.
Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well?
Chet Hartley
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Mark Roberts <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
*To:* pietenpol-list <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM
*Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in
September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build.
Since I
am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I
decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign
business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood
shop.
I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about,
but it
is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a
professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason
and I
that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to
run
it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so
we
both were 'available' to start a new business....
BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing
jigs
and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the
legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett
613.5
wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought
them
into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg
jig
perfectly following the coordinates...
Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to
size
with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them
into
the program and ran it today at the shop and got
press-to-fit
perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place
with
almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the
parts
for one rib!
Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the
top and
bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new
pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts
in
(not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some
epoxy
:o) place I was very excited.
I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5
airfoil
and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits
for
those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap
strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut
all of
those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this
wing.
What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first
went
in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd
never
heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he
pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka
Spar
stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets?
"Right there in that stack..."
So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for
myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm
having
fun! :o)
Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim
the
Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential
kit or
two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal
stuff
I must do...
Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make
progress!
Mark
*
"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
*
*
*
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
things."
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
Jack, you covered your face with a "a rich, sweet
pastry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastry>made of layers of
phyllo <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllo>
dough<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dough>filled with chopped
nuts <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_%28fruit%29> and sweetened with
syrup<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrup>or
honey <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey>."?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baklava
I would think one of those bank robber ski masks would have been
warmer......Oops sorry, you said balaclava not baklava, never mind.
rick
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of
> difference. Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain
> Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving. Temps were in the upper
> thirties. The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a half.
> With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty
> comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool
> balaclava that covered my face). The heater doesn't do much other than
> warm
> my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kevinpurtee
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
>
> <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>
> I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure
> learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months.
> Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to
> Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper
> 40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're
> ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons.
> If
> you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great.
>
> My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks.
> Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy
> flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have
> my canvas helmet over that.
>
> I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit.
>
> I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold,
> it
> wupped my butt.
>
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
> Houston
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: cold weather flying |
It's the honey what really blocks the wind...
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jack, you covered your face with a "a rich, sweet pastry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastry>made of layers of
> phyllo <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllo> dough<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dough>filled with chopped
> nuts <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_%28fruit%29> and sweetened with
> syrup <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrup> or honey<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey>
> ."?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baklava
>
> I would think one of those bank robber ski masks would have been
> warmer......Oops sorry, you said balaclava not baklava, never mind.
>
> rick
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
>> pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of
>> difference. Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain
>> Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving. Temps were in the upper
>> thirties. The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a
>> half.
>> With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty
>> comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool
>> balaclava that covered my face). The heater doesn't do much other than
>> warm
>> my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> kevinpurtee
>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying
>>
>> <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
>>
>> I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure
>> learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months.
>> Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to
>> Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper
>> 40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and
>> they're
>> ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons.
>> If
>> you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great.
>>
>> My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks.
>> Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a
>> heavy
>> flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have
>> my canvas helmet over that.
>>
>> I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit.
>>
>> I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold,
>> it
>> wupped my butt.
>>
>> Kevin Purtee
>> NX899KP
>> Houston
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
I own a set. Bought 'em from the late Charlie Rubeck, for the rumored $300 (plus
shipping). Charlie's workmanship was superb. I certainly couldn't beat it; certainly
not for the price.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
>Sent: Feb 1, 2010 5:41 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
>
>
>Mark,
>
>There are guys who have, in the past, sold fully built ribs without a
>worry. I've heard tell that a full set of 20 fully constructed ribs
>would cost $300. So, I don't think there would be any problem selling
>the pre-cut pieces and letting the buyer put 'em together themselves.
>
>Cheers,
>Dan
>
>
>On 02/01/2010 04:12 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:
>> Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the
>> entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it
>> appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and
>> post it for all.
>>
>> I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I
>> can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for
>> the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by
>> the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling
>> the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut
>> dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the
>> individual components like a large model airplane kit....
>>
>> I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this...
>>
>> Thanks for any direction guys!
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov
>> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>> wrote:
>>
>> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here:
>>
>> http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting
>>
>> The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that
>> database, too.
>>
>> These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar
>> locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and
>> get measurements off that.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o)
>>
>> Hey Chet!
>>
>> I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils
>> and I need
>> folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils,
>> etc. You
>> can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley
>> <chethartley1@mchsi.com <mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>
>> <mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com <mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig.
>> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well?
>> Chet Hartley
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Mark Roberts <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com
>> <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>>
>> *To:* pietenpol-list
>> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM
>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
>>
>> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in
>> September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build.
>> Since I
>> am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I
>> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign
>> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood
>> shop.
>> I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came
>> about, but it
>> is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a
>> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told
>> Jason and I
>> that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us
>> to run
>> it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too,
>> so we
>> both were 'available' to start a new business....
>>
>> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional
>> wing jigs
>> and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the
>> legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett
>> 613.5
>> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought
>> them
>> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new
>> peg jig
>> perfectly following the coordinates...
>>
>> Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to
>> size
>> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew
>> them into
>> the program and ran it today at the shop and got
>> press-to-fit
>> perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into
>> place with
>> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut
>> the parts
>> for one rib!
>>
>> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the
>> top and
>> bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new
>> pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the
>> parts in
>> (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for
>> some epoxy
>> :o) place I was very excited.
>>
>> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5
>> airfoil
>> and I am looking into the legalities of making a few
>> kits for
>> those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap
>> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to
>> cut all of
>> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for
>> this wing.
>>
>> What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I
>> first went
>> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd
>> never
>> heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he
>> pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified
>> Sitka Spar
>> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets?
>> "Right there in that stack..."
>>
>> So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for
>> myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but
>> I'm having
>> fun! :o)
>>
>> Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and
>> trim the
>> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential
>> kit or
>> two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what
>> legal stuff
>> I must do...
>>
>> Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make
>> progress!
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dan Yocum
>> Fermilab 630.840.6509
>> yocum@fnal.gov <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
>> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>--
>Dan Yocum
>Fermilab 630.840.6509
>yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
>"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
Mark, I am an attorney and can give you some ideas. Contact me offline
if you like.
Gene Rambo
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Roberts<mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded
the entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it
appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and
post it for all.
I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I
can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for
the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by
the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling
the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut
dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the
individual components like a large model airplane kit....
I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on
this...
Thanks for any direction guys!
Mark
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum
<yocum@fnal.gov<mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>> wrote:
<yocum@fnal.gov<mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>>
Mark,
Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here:
http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+loftin
g<http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+loft
ing>
The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that
database, too.
These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar
locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get
measurements off that.
Cheers,
Dan
On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:
Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o)
Hey Chet!
I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and
I need
folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils,
etc. You
can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904.
Thanks!
Mark
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley
<chethartley1@mchsi.com<mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>
<mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com<mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>>>
wrote:
Mark,
I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig.
Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well?
Chet Hartley
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Mark Roberts
<mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com<mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>>
*To:* pietenpol-list
<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
*Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM
*Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in
September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build.
Since I
am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I
decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign
business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood
shop.
I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about,
but it
is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a
professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason
and I
that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to
run
it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so
we
both were 'available' to start a new business....
BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing
jigs
and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the
legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett
613.5
wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought
them
into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg
jig
perfectly following the coordinates...
Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to
size
with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them
into
the program and ran it today at the shop and got
press-to-fit
perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place
with
almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the
parts
for one rib!
Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the
top and
bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new
pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts
in
(not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some
epoxy
:o) place I was very excited.
I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5
airfoil
and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits
for
those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap
strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut
all of
those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this
wing.
What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first
went
in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd
never
heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he
pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka
Spar
stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets?
"Right there in that stack..."
So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for
myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm
having
fun! :o)
Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim
the
Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential
kit or
two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal
stuff
I must do...
Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make
progress!
Mark
*
"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>
*
*
*
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov<mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>,
http://fermigrid.fnal.gov<http://fermigrid.fnal.gov/>
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
things."
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! |
I agree w/David - lawyers will only chase "deep pockets" - you might make a decent
living off of selling ribs you will probably never get to the point of having
deep pockets. Do a quality job and follow proven plans and you can defer
most of the liability.
If you are worried then simply set it up as a corporation to protect yourself.
I have started 7 businesses over the years, some successful and some not, be more
afraid of the sleep you'll lose when you think of all the opportunities you
could've started but didn't because you were afraid of lawyers.
-jim pantas
www.wildhorsesracing.com
________________________________
From: David Paule <dpaule@frii.com>
Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 5:42:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
I'm not an attorney, but here goes anyway:
More than likely, you'll find that while it might be entirely possible to
fight off a lawsuit, you have no way to prevent someone from filing one in the
first place. And fighting one off will not be cheap. But the probability of
being sued is low.
If you make the wood parts to match someone else's design, that adds a
layer to your possible defense. If you design the parts too, then that adds to
your potential liability.
It might be worth seeking business liability insurance, so that in the
unlikely event you do get sued, you've got some deep pockets on your side.
Other than that, get the business started. Fear of failure prevented more
good ideas from being realized than actual negligence.
Now these are merely my own suggestions, and as I mentioned, I'm
unqualified to give legal advice, and besides that, this is FREE, so you know
what it's worth. But I've started and run two companies successfully. One was an
aerospace structural analysis consultancy (where I never even bothered with the
insurance), the other was in real estate management (where I do carry
insurance).
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
>From: Mark
> Roberts
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:12
> PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5
> airfoil jig!
>
>Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have
> downloaded the entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and
> it appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and
> post it for all.
>
>I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can
> advise me where I can find info on the legal issues associated with selling
> cut parts for the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and
> inspected by the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply
> selling the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in
> cut dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the individual
> components like a large model airplane kit....
>
>I'm not even sure what
> kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this...
>
>Thanks for any
> direction guys!
>
>Mark
>
>
>On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> > wrote:
>
>>
>>Mark,
>>
>>Tons of
>> airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here:
>>
>>http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting
>>
>>The
>> Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database,
>> too.
>>
>>These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or
>> spar locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get
>> measurements off that.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts
>> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o)
>>>
>>>Hey
>>> Chet!
>>>
>>>I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils
>>> and I need
>>>folks like you to suggest and help me find the right
>>> airfoils, etc. You
>>>can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like:
>>> 559-917-5904.
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>
>>>On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at
>>> 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley <chethartley1@mchsi.com
>>>
>>><mailto:chethartley1@mchsi.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing
>>> jig.
>>> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well?
>>>
>>> Chet Hartley
>>>
>>> ----- Original
>>> Message -----
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark Roberts
>>> <mailto:mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> *To:* pietenpol-list <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss
>>> in
>>> September, I have made a stab at resuming
>>> my Piet build. Since I
>>> am getting no calls
>>> from the recruiters and job boards, I
>>>
>>> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign
>>>
>>> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty
>>> wood shop.
>>> I'll spare ya the story about how
>>> all of this came about, but it
>>> is a good
>>> match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a
>>>
>>> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and
>>> I
>>> that we had full reign over the router,
>>> and he wanted us to run
>>> it full time to make
>>> money. See Jason was laid off too, so we
>>>
>>> both were 'available' to start a new business....
>>>
>>>
>>> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional
>>> wing jigs
>>> and wing kits for various planes.
>>> I am not sure of the
>>> legalities involved,
>>> but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5
>>>
>>> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought
>>> them
>>> into the software we use (EnRoute 4)
>>> and presto! A new peg jig
>>> perfectly
>>> following the coordinates...
>>>
>>> Then I
>>> thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size
>>>
>>> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them
>>> into
>>> the program and ran it today at the
>>> shop and got press-to-fit
>>> perfect parts! It
>>> is something to see a part fit into place with
>>>
>>> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the
>>> parts
>>> for one rib!
>>>
>>>
>>> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top
>>> and
>>> bottom cap strips done, and I still need
>>> to cut the new
>>> pre-bending jig yet, but when
>>> I finished snapping the parts in
>>> (not too
>>> tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy
>>>
>>> :o) place I was very excited.
>>>
>>>
>>> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5
>>> airfoil
>>> and I am looking into the legalities
>>> of making a few kits for
>>> those that might
>>> want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap
>>>
>>> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all
>>> of
>>> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply
>>> gussets) for this wing.
>>>
>>> What was a real
>>> trip about this wood shop was when I first went
>>>
>>> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd
>>> never
>>> heard of before) and asked if he
>>> carried Sitka Spruce, he
>>> pointed to a bin
>>> and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar
>>>
>>> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my
>>> gussets?
>>> "Right there in that
>>> stack..."
>>>
>>> So, instead of looking for
>>> another job, I created one for
>>> myself.
>>> Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having
>>>
>>> fun! :o)
>>>
>>> Here's some pics
>>> of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the
>>>
>>> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit
>>> or
>>> two, I can work up some numbers once I
>>> find out what legal stuff
>>> I must
>>> do...
>>>
>>> Just an update. Hope to begin
>>> posting again as I make progress!
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> "
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>>
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>*
>>>
>>>
>>>*
>>>
>>
>>--
>>Dan Yocum
>>Fermilab 630.840.6509
>>yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
>>"I fly because it releases my
>> mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>>
>>==========
>>
>>st"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>==========
>>http://forums.matronics.com
>>==========
>>le,
>> List
>> Admin.
>>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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| Subject: | Ken Perkin's Ford A |
All,
I'm sure someone with an A engine has already called up to Ken Perkins
answering his call in the BPA newsletter about acquiring a new Dan Price
aluminum head, but it got me to thinking - in the past year or so,
someone mentioned another high-compression aluminum head for the A, but
I'll be darned if I can find that message in the archive... It was
called the Beast or something like that...
Guess I'm getting older - CRS has taken a firm hold...
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Ken Perkin's Ford A |
Dan,
The Lion Speed Head, maybe?: http://www.secretsofspeed.com/LION.htm
I want to say Larry Williams said he put one on his A.....I believe there
was some concern of parts leaving the craft due to the increase in power and
the higher speeds.... ;)
Ryan
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I'm sure someone with an A engine has already called up to Ken Perkins
> answering his call in the BPA newsletter about acquiring a new Dan Price
> aluminum head, but it got me to thinking - in the past year or so, someone
> mentioned another high-compression aluminum head for the A, but I'll be
> darned if I can find that message in the archive... It was called the Beast
> or something like that...
>
> Guess I'm getting older - CRS has taken a firm hold...
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ken Perkin's Ford A |
Yup. That's the one! I'm adding that to my bookmarks, now. You know,
just in case I ponder building an A or B powered Piet in the future...
Thanks,
Dan
On 02/01/2010 09:22 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Dan,
>
> The Lion Speed Head, maybe?: http://www.secretsofspeed.com/LION.htm
>
> I want to say Larry Williams said he put one on his A.....I believe
> there was some concern of parts leaving the craft due to the increase in
> power and the higher speeds.... ;)
>
> Ryan
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>>
>
> All,
>
> I'm sure someone with an A engine has already called up to Ken
> Perkins answering his call in the BPA newsletter about acquiring a
> new Dan Price aluminum head, but it got me to thinking - in the past
> year or so, someone mentioned another high-compression aluminum head
> for the A, but I'll be darned if I can find that message in the
> archive... It was called the Beast or something like that...
>
> Guess I'm getting older - CRS has taken a firm hold...
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 38
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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