Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:03 AM - paperwork display (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 10:26 AM - Turtle Deck (Jack)
3. 10:43 AM - Re: Turtle Deck (Gary Boothe)
4. 12:56 PM - Re: Turtle Deck (Michael Perez)
5. 01:02 PM - Elevator horn twist (Michael Perez)
6. 01:43 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (gcardinal)
7. 01:43 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Jeff Boatright)
8. 02:44 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Gene Rambo)
9. 03:00 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Pieti Lowell)
10. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: Elevator horn twist (Gene Rambo)
11. 03:25 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Jeff Boatright)
12. 03:54 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (helspersew@aol.com)
13. 04:02 PM - Elevator horn twist (helspersew@aol.com)
14. 04:58 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Gene Rambo)
15. 05:15 PM - Re: Turtle Deck (Jack)
16. 05:19 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Jack)
17. 05:25 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Jack)
18. 05:26 PM - straight axle hub info (Richard Schreiber)
19. 05:53 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (helspersew@aol.com)
20. 07:30 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Peter W Johnson)
21. 07:40 PM - Re: Elevator horn twist (Dan Yocum)
Message 1
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| Subject: | paperwork display |
Lowell wrote:
>Oscar, Do you fly with the cables loose?
>Do I see the turn buckle with a slight sag,
>or is some one hanging on a control surface?
>Maybe camera distortion.
No. Yes. No. No. Your eyes do not deceive.
I should have explained that the picture was
taken after the nose-over incident. At the
time of the photo, the forward cabanes were
crumpled, which relieved the tension on the
brace wires and control cables, thus the slack.
The face of the oil pressure gauge was cracked,
the ignition key was broken off in the switch
(Charlie's forehead paid the price for that),
there was blood on the underside of the flop
and wing centersection from where Charlie's
forehead dripped as he hung upside-down in
the cockpit, till he unbuckled the harness;
the pilot's and passenger's seats were broken,
and lots of other things were all ahoo. The
airplane looks MUCH nicer now, I can assure
you! Good observation, though.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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Happy Saturday All,
Where the stringers come together at the rear of the deck, the "height"
needs to be trimmed for the outside stringers. Is it easier to pre-trim the
bottom to fit or have them secured full height then planed to the correct
size?
Thanks
Jack
DSM
Message 3
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Jack,
I pre-trimmed the bottoms.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck
Happy Saturday All,
Where the stringers come together at the rear of the deck, the "height"
needs to be trimmed for the outside stringers. Is it easier to pre-trim the
bottom to fit or have them secured full height then planed to the correct
size?
Thanks
Jack
DSM
Message 4
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Ditto Gary's response...trim the BOTTOMS prior to install.
--- On Sat, 2/6/10, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck
Jack,
=C2-
I pre-trimmed the bottoms.
=C2-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear
(16 ribs down)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck
=C2-
Happy Saturday All,
Where the stringers come together at the rear of the deck, the =9Chei
ght=9D needs to be trimmed for the outside stringers.=C2- Is it eas
ier to pre-trim the bottom to fit or have them secured full height then pla
ned to the correct size?
Thanks
Jack
DSM
=C2- =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp:/
/forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
Message 5
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| Subject: | Elevator horn twist |
I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle to be
more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your horns to be in
line with the cables, or install the horns straight, (in line with the fus
elage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips?- It appears when I line mine u
p with the cables that the horn is at quite the angle...not sure if this wo
uld have an effect on the air flow over the elevators.- Only twisting the
tips, seems to me, the cables would put a side load on the horns.- Thank
you.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
On NX18235 the elevator horns are angled to be in line with the cables.
The rudder horn is twisted just at the tips.
Flies just fine.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an
angle to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your
horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight, (in
line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It appears
when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at quite the
angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air flow over the
elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the cables would put a
side load on the horns. Thank you.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
The horns on our Piet are split evenly between the two approaches. I
have no idea why. The plane has several hundred hours on it, I don't
think it matters...
>I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle
>to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your
>horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight,
>(in line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It
>appears when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at
>quite the angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air
>flow over the elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the
>cables would put a side load on the horns. Thank you.
>
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
I have been wrestling with this myself. I have 1/8" flat steel horns,
not streamlined per plans. I put them on straight because I could not
see having that flat plate out there at an angle. (like I am really
going to reduce the drag of a Piet) Also, if it lines up with the
cables, say at neutral, it won't line up at any other angle because the
geometry changes as the elevator moves up and down (although not much).
I had a friend who is an engineer (I know, this is not like me to
engineer anything) do the math, and the side load on the horn is not
very high at all, certainly not enough to bend 4130.
Now I am just obsessing with looks. The horns are installed, I am just
thinking whether to replace them with plans-built horns before it is too
late.
Does anyone else have flat steel horns that are straight?? Photos??
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez<mailto:speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an
angle to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your
horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight, (in
line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It appears
when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at quite the
angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air flow over the
elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the cables would put a
side load on the horns. Thank you.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
[ Gene, clamp a similar flat plate in a vice, pull 35 Lbs with a short cable, check
for deflection and satisfy your sarofsify.
Pieti Lowell
]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285115#285115
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
I am not worried at all about the side forces. I am only thinking about
appearances right now.
----- Original Message -----
From: Pieti Lowell<mailto:Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator horn twist
<Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com<mailto:Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>>
[ Gene, clamp a similar flat plate in a vice, pull 35 Lbs with a short
cable, check for deflection and satisfy your sarofsify.
Pieti Lowell
]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285115#285115<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285115#285115>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
I agree with Lowell, you could just test it in a vice.
But, have you considered twisting the tip so that the pin wears on
the flat of the horn hole radius, rather than the edge? If I was
going to worry about anything, I would worry about the pin getting
cut into by the 4130 radius edge. Which will be harder: 4130 or the
pin? Probably the pin, so even THIS consideration isn't much of a
concern...Just something to check at annual.
>I have been wrestling with this myself. I have 1/8" flat steel
>horns, not streamlined per plans. I put them on straight because I
>could not see having that flat plate out there at an angle. (like I
>am really going to reduce the drag of a Piet) Also, if it lines up
>with the cables, say at neutral, it won't line up at any other angle
>because the geometry changes as the elevator moves up and down
>(although not much). I had a friend who is an engineer (I know,
>this is not like me to engineer anything) do the math, and the side
>load on the horn is not very high at all, certainly not enough to
>bend 4130.
>
>Now I am just obsessing with looks. The horns are installed, I am
>just thinking whether to replace them with plans-built horns before
>it is too late.
>
>Does anyone else have flat steel horns that are straight?? Photos??
>
>Gene
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
Michael,
I installed mine at an angle. You might have a point about just twisting
the tips so you don't lose any speed. Doing so would probably add at leas
t 10-15 kts.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Elevator horn twist |
Gene,
My advise to you is change those horns and build to plans. I have gone thr
ough this "wrestling" process (as you describe) with many things on this
airplane. I always go back and change it to my gut feeling. If you don't
you will always regret it. Besides, those control horns are one of the mo
st eloquent design features on this airplane. Right? Making those horns to
plans was one of the most rewarding parts of the construction process.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
Dan, "darn you to heck!!" THAT is what I didn't want to hear! Of
course, that is what I thought, I have gone to great extremes for the
appearance of this plane, ai just don't want to ruin it now.
I WAS ready to cover the tail and fuselage, but noooooooooo, now I gotta
build horns.
Darn you, darn you to heck (to paraphrase Mr. Heston)
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com<mailto:helspersew@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
Gene,
My advise to you is change those horns and build to plans. I have gone
through this "wrestling" process (as you describe) with many things on
this airplane. I always go back and change it to my gut feeling. If you
don't you will always regret it. Besides, those control horns are one of
the most eloquent design features on this airplane. Right? Making those
horns to plans was one of the most rewarding parts of the construction
process.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 15
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Thanks for the comments. What a great day, spent nine hours with my
mistress! Got all the stringers fit and the front two bridges finished.
A good day, thanks Bernard,
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Elevator horn twist |
Gene,
Go for it! I did the same with a partially built fuselage I purchased. I
just wasn't happy with it. My gut was right, glad I'm re-doing.
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
Dan, "darn you to heck!!" THAT is what I didn't want to hear! Of course,
that is what I thought, I have gone to great extremes for the appearance of
this plane, ai just don't want to ruin it now.
I WAS ready to cover the tail and fuselage, but noooooooooo, now I gotta
build horns.
Darn you, darn you to heck (to paraphrase Mr. Heston)
Gene
Gene,
My advise to you is change those horns and build to plans. I have gone
through this "wrestling" process (as you describe) with many things on this
airplane. I always go back and change it to my gut feeling. If you don't you
will always regret it. Besides, those control horns are one of the most
eloquent design features on this airplane. Right? Making those horns to
plans was one of the most rewarding parts of the construction process.
Dan Helsper
Message 17
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| Subject: | Elevator horn twist |
Gene,
I forgot to include a picture.
Do not archive
Jack Textor
29 SW 58th Drive
Des Moines, IA 50312
www.textors.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
Dan, "darn you to heck!!" THAT is what I didn't want to hear! Of course,
that is what I thought, I have gone to great extremes for the appearance of
this plane, ai just don't want to ruin it now.
I WAS ready to cover the tail and fuselage, but noooooooooo, now I gotta
build horns.
Darn you, darn you to heck (to paraphrase Mr. Heston)
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
Gene,
My advise to you is change those horns and build to plans. I have gone
through this "wrestling" process (as you describe) with many things on this
airplane. I always go back and change it to my gut feeling. If you don't you
will always regret it. Besides, those control horns are one of the most
eloquent design features on this airplane. Right? Making those horns to
plans was one of the most rewarding parts of the construction process.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 18
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| Subject: | straight axle hub info |
Fellow Pieters:
for those that have made the straight axle gear using the Henderson/Pavliga/Perkins
style hubs, what size holes did you drill in the hubs for your spokes. I
realize it is spoke size dependent, but my plans are to go with 9 ga. spokes from
Buchanan's. I want to make sure that the hubs that I send to them are drilled
correctly.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
Gene,
Sorry, don't kill the mesenger!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 6, 2010 6:55 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
Dan, "darn you to heck!!" THAT is what I didn't want to hear! Of course,
that is what I thought, I have gone to great extremes for the appearance
of this plane, ai just don't want to ruin it now.
I WAS ready to cover the tail and fuselage, but noooooooooo, now I gotta
build horns.
Darn you, darn you to heck (to paraphrase Mr. Heston)
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
Gene,
My advise to you is change those horns and build to plans. I have gone thr
ough this "wrestling" process (as you describe) with many things on this
airplane. I always go back and change it to my gut feeling. If you don't
you will always regret it. Besides, those control horns are one of the mo
st eloquent design features on this airplane. Right? Making those horns to
plans was one of the most rewarding parts of the construction process.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?Pietenpol-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Elevator horn twist |
Gene,
I made mine out of flat 4130 sheet. The looked fine to me. Have a look down
the bottom of page 11 on the web site (http://www.cpc-world.com).
I angled them slightly toward the cable exit in the fuse.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Sunday, 7 February 2010 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
I have been wrestling with this myself. I have 1/8" flat steel horns, not
streamlined per plans. I put them on straight because I could not see
having that flat plate out there at an angle. (like I am really going to
reduce the drag of a Piet) Also, if it lines up with the cables, say at
neutral, it won't line up at any other angle because the geometry changes as
the elevator moves up and down (although not much). I had a friend who is
an engineer (I know, this is not like me to engineer anything) do the math,
and the side load on the horn is not very high at all, certainly not enough
to bend 4130.
Now I am just obsessing with looks. The horns are installed, I am just
thinking whether to replace them with plans-built horns before it is too
late.
Does anyone else have flat steel horns that are straight?? Photos??
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez <mailto:speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle to be
more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your horns to be in
line with the cables, or install the horns straight, (in line with the
fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It appears when I line mine
up with the cables that the horn is at quite the angle...not sure if this
would have an effect on the air flow over the elevators. Only twisting the
tips, seems to me, the cables would put a side load on the horns. Thank
you.
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator horn twist |
N8031 has flat horns, with a short, 3/8" or so, section bent at a 90
degree angle for stiffening strength. They work, but they're not what
the plans call for. Sorry, I don't have any pictures of these.
It's kinda up to you... sounds like you're going to go the per the plans
route. I'd probably do the same...
Cheers,
Dan
On 02/06/2010 04:41 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> I have been wrestling with this myself. I have 1/8" flat steel horns,
> not streamlined per plans. I put them on straight because I could not
> see having that flat plate out there at an angle. (like I am really
> going to reduce the drag of a Piet) Also, if it lines up with the
> cables, say at neutral, it won't line up at any other angle because the
> geometry changes as the elevator moves up and down (although not much).
> I had a friend who is an engineer (I know, this is not like me to
> engineer anything) do the math, and the side load on the horn is not
> very high at all, certainly not enough to bend 4130.
> Now I am just obsessing with looks. The horns are installed, I am just
> thinking whether to replace them with plans-built horns before it is too
> late.
> Does anyone else have flat steel horns that are straight?? Photos??
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Michael Perez <mailto:speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:59 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist
>
> I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle
> to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your
> horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight,
> (in line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It
> appears when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at
> quite the angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air
> flow over the elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the
> cables would put a side load on the horns. Thank you.
>
> *
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--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
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