Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 02/23/10


Total Messages Posted: 51



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:40 AM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Jack Phillips)
     2. 04:40 AM - laminating struts and tv (Douwe Blumberg)
     3. 04:57 AM - Re: laminating struts and tv (Jack Phillips)
     4. 05:17 AM - Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
     5. 05:33 AM - Re: laminating struts and tv (Jerry Dotson)
     6. 05:37 AM - Pics from Edwards AFB Open House 2009 (chase143(at)aol.com)
     7. 06:12 AM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Gary Boothe)
     8. 06:12 AM - Re: totally way off topic--do not archive (TOM STINEMETZE)
     9. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (airlion)
    10. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Gary Boothe)
    11. 07:40 AM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (K5YAC)
    12. 07:43 AM - Re: laminating struts and tv (David Paule)
    13. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (David Paule)
    14. 07:57 AM - Re: laminating struts (JohnC)
    15. 08:00 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
    16. 08:04 AM - Re: wood struts (Ray Krause)
    17. 08:07 AM - Sky Scout... (santiago morete)
    18. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (Michael Perez)
    19. 08:50 AM - one more view laminating struts (Jim Markle)
    20. 09:13 AM - Pietenpol newbie...or..wow this is cool how do I get started (skidmk)
    21. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (David Paule)
    22. 09:22 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (gboothe5@comcast.net)
    23. 09:34 AM - Re: wood struts (Billy McCaskill)
    24. 10:02 AM - Re: one more view laminating struts (K5YAC)
    25. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: one more view laminating struts (Jim Markle)
    26. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: wood struts (Jim Markle)
    27. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: one more view laminating struts (John Hofmann)
    28. 11:12 AM - Larry Williams, Aluminum struts (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    29. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: wood struts (Ray Krause)
    30. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: wood struts (Ray Krause)
    31. 11:55 AM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause)
    32. 12:20 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (gboothe5@comcast.net)
    33. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (Ryan Mueller)
    34. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Dan Yocum)
    35. 01:53 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (Dan Yocum)
    36. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts (gboothe5@comcast.net)
    37. 03:16 PM - Re: Pics from Edwards AFB Open House 2009 (Jack Phillips)
    38. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (David Paule)
    39. 04:12 PM - Aluminum struts (shad bell)
    40. 04:41 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (ldmill)
    41. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Sky Scout... (David Paule)
    42. 05:29 PM - Re: Pics from Edwards AFB Open House 2009 (Jack)
    43. 06:35 PM - Re: laminating struts (Jerry Dotson)
    44. 06:48 PM - FW: Roll your mouse over any airport for the current conditions. (Jack Phillips)
    45. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (Dan Yocum)
    46. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (David Paule)
    47. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (Clif Dawson)
    48. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Gary Boothe)
    49. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts and tv (Ryan Mueller)
    50. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Clif Dawson)
    51. 09:34 PM - Re: wood struts (Billy McCaskill)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:40:45 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Finally making sawdust and progress!
    Good for you, Billy! The older I get the more I realize that nothing much matters except building and flying Pietenpols. Everything else is just distraction Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy McCaskill Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! After a year and a half break from building, for various and sundry reasons, I'm finally back to making sawdust and progress on my Piet project. Now that my bandsaw is fixed and I've finally gotten some wood to work with, I'm cutting some 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip so that I can soon start building ribs. I should also have enough wood left over to buld my horizontal stab, thus completing the woodwork part of my tail section. It feels really good to finally be back to working on my Piet! I'll be back out in the garage again tomorrow cutting more capstrip! -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287753#287753


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:40:13 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: laminating struts and tv
    I had an expert woodworker look at my wooden struts (which are laminated) and he couldn't understand why I laminated them at all. He made the very good point that just the wood without the ply center would be stronger, and he's right. I guess the best reason for laminating is to reduce the possibility of a hidden flaw in one piece of wood. and it does kinda look cool. Haven't had TV for ten years and wouldn't take it back for a million dollars!! Not only is it the biggest time waster ever invented, it gradually and subtly forms and changes one's thinking to fall in line with whatever world view is popular at the moment. I'd like to think for myself, thank you very much! Sorry for the rant. Douwe


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:57:16 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: laminating struts and tv
    Laminations also greatly reduce the possibility of a split. Cracks don't propogate across the glue line. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: laminating struts and tv <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> I had an expert woodworker look at my wooden struts (which are laminated) and he couldn't understand why I laminated them at all. He made the very good point that just the wood without the ply center would be stronger, and he's right. I guess the best reason for laminating is to reduce the possibility of a hidden flaw in one piece of wood. and it does kinda look cool. Haven't had TV for ten years and wouldn't take it back for a million dollars!! Not only is it the biggest time waster ever invented, it gradually and subtly forms and changes one's thinking to fall in line with whatever world view is popular at the moment. I'd like to think for myself, thank you very much! Sorry for the rant. Douwe


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:17:37 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore
    For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary progress since I was a lad. No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check out those flashing LED nav lights ! Mike C. do not archive http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm Scroll down and click on video to play.


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:33:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net>
    I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane and lift struts in the next few days and would like to see pictures of clamping jigs so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, T-88, and Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the time it takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread on them before clamping. Thanks. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:37:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Pics from Edwards AFB Open House 2009
    From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143@aol.com>
    Slightly off topic, but some very cool pictures. Glad to see Edwards is holding open houses again. Very impressive show of aircraft if you can make it. Perhaps someone could add a Piet. http://home.comcast.net/~bzee1a/Edwards09/Edwards09.html Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287782#287782


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:12:14 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Finally making sawdust and progress!
    Welcome back, Billy!!! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy McCaskill Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 8:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! After a year and a half break from building, for various and sundry reasons, I'm finally back to making sawdust and progress on my Piet project. Now that my bandsaw is fixed and I've finally gotten some wood to work with, I'm cutting some 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip so that I can soon start building ribs. I should also have enough wood left over to buld my horizontal stab, thus completing the woodwork part of my tail section. It feels really good to finally be back to working on my Piet! I'll be back out in the garage again tomorrow cutting more capstrip! -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287753#287753


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:12:24 AM PST US
    From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
    Subject: Re: totally way off topic--do not archive
    >>I would much prefer spending 30 minutes going through 85 or so posts on >>my brother's blog describing the teardown and restoration >>of an 850 Norton twin than I would spending the same amount >>of time watching some Olympic curling competition. Oscar: I agree that there's nothing on TV worth wasting your time over. All you get is made-up news repeated over and over - ad nauseam, and porn thinly disguised as drama. BUT when you start attacking the enormously entertaini ng sport of curling - YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR! Where else can you watch an Olympic sport that you can envision yourself as actually doing (as opposed to just watching?) Come on over to my house and I'll put on a couple of hours of Tinman Tech so we can catch up on our welding skills. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. do not archive


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:44:59 AM PST US
    From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    Jerry, you might consider plastic resin glue by weldwood carried by aircraft spruce. That is what prop people use, and that is what I am using on my blank that I will have at sun n fun. Gardiner --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> wrote: > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 8:33 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net> > > I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane > and lift struts in the next few days and would like to see > pictures of clamping jigs so I don't have to re-invent the > wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, T-88, and > Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the > time it takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread > on them before clamping. > Thanks. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > >


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:13:45 AM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts
    Jerry, I used T-88 & some Resorcinol, but no fancy clamping jigs. I only tried the resorcinol because I thought the dark brown color would enhance the look of the lamination. I found, though, that there was little difference between the two, once all the sanding and finishing was done. Clamping was merely done with several wood clamps. Clamping the struts while shaping was tried in two different ways. #1178 shows a simple woodworker's vice. I used this on all the landing gear struts. Because of the shape of the cabanes, they were a little more difficult to clamp. For those I made a jig out of 2x4. The 2x4 has two pin hole locations on one end as the cabanes are different lengths. This jig accomplishes two things: first, you can use bolts in the holes to hold the piece down (I put multiple washers under the strut to hold it up for shaping); secondly, the jig ensures that each strut has the fittings located exactly right. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane and lift struts in the next few days and would like to see pictures of clamping jigs so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, T-88, and Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the time it takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread on them before clamping. Thanks. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:40:42 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Finally making sawdust and progress!
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Awesome Billy... keep us posted. I agree with Jack... everything else is a distraction. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287811#287811


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:43:47 AM PST US
    From: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    As a structural engineer, I've wondered why people are placing plywood in the center of the laminated wood struts. The reasons that I have thought of are: a. You can make the bolt holes stronger. But good fitting design makes that unnecessary. b. The plywood cross-grain will help prevent the wood from splitting. But a laminated strut, with good fitting design, should be pretty robust in that regard all by itself. Can anyone explain the plywood to me? Thanks! David Paule P.S. I second Douwe's TV comment.... I don't miss TV. > <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> > > I had an expert woodworker look at my wooden struts (which are laminated) > and he couldn't understand why I laminated them at all. He made the very > good point that just the wood without the ply center would be stronger, > and > he's right. I guess the best reason for laminating is to reduce the > possibility of a hidden flaw in one piece of wood. and it does kinda look > cool. > > Haven't had TV for ten years and wouldn't take it back for a million > dollars!! Not only is it the biggest time waster ever invented, it > gradually and subtly forms and changes one's thinking to fall in line with > whatever world view is popular at the moment. I'd like to think for > myself, > thank you very much! > > Sorry for the rant. > > Douwe > > >


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:49:26 AM PST US
    From: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    I have read somewhere, recently and I can't find the link, dang it, that Plastic Resin glue loses strength after repeated changes of humidity. It might have been that Advisory Circular about maintaining old aircraft. Might check into that. Of the glues mentioned, I'd choose either the Resorcinol or the T-88. The T-88 isn't hurt by using lots of clampping pressure, FYI, and the Resorcinol requires that. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" <airlion@bellsouth.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:37 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv Jerry, you might consider plastic resin glue by weldwood carried by aircraft spruce. That is what prop people use, and that is what I am using on my blank that I will have at sun n fun. Gardiner --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> wrote: > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 8:33 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net> > > I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane > and lift struts in the next few days and would like to see > pictures of clamping jigs so I don't have to re-invent the > wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, T-88, and > Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the > time it takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread > on them before clamping. > Thanks. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > >


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:57:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: laminating struts
    From: "JohnC" <jcalvert@trinityvideo.net>
    That sure does not look like 15 ribs hanging up in the ceiling in that last photo. -------- I just hope when it's my turn to reach up and touch the face of God, I don't poke him in the eye on accident. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287814#287814


    Message 15


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:00:40 AM PST US
    From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
    Thanks, Gary. I will accept your humility with a grain of salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your abilities! The point about laminating to avoid wood defects is well taken, I will follow suit. After computing the costs of the metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood struts! As far as the spars go, they were included in the wood I got with the Sky Scout package; they are spruce. But rather than the 1" thickness, they are 3/4", I think I will sandwich then with two pieces of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so they fit the ribs). The Hughes Hardwood place in Chico had beautiful parallel grain fir that would have made beautiful spars, cheap, too. Next time I am in Chico, I will check out the hickory. The ash seems to be really dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). I will try to look it up. Thanks for the response. And yes, I have referenced Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it makes my eyes and brain hurt! Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:17 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Ray, Your questions are intelligent and educated..attributes to which I make no personal claim. In all honesty, I perused the West Coast Piet web site to exhaustion. Too bad Chris Tracy doesn't have sponsors, or he'd be a rich man! After looking at every application of wood strut that has been built and is flying, I decided it was doable. Conversations about appropriate woods went from ash to spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of hickory and the decision was that easy. For size, I just used the plans dimensions for steel. Later conversations with another builder (either Cliff Dawson or Douwe Blumberg), far more intelligent and educated than I, showed published strengths of various woods, and verified that hickory had plenty of strength for our purposes. I think I can find that email, but it's on my other computer at home. My wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the shape and size on the plans. Connections will surely be similar to Douwe's. All cabanes and wing struts are laminated because..that's what everyone does! Really, it gives you an opportunity to rotate the grain and eliminate the possibility of having a weak link. Also, it looks really cool! My wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in Auburn, Ca (California Hardwoods), who does his own wholesale purchasing in whatever length and size needed. He even mills, if necessary. He located my fir spars and sold all four for $185!! Bonus is that he helped build some wood airplanes and knows what grains to look for. Further note: If anything goes wrong, I'll blame Chris Tracy for publishing all those photos! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Gary, If I made these 22" struts (front/center) from metal, they would weigh 22+ ounces without the ends. How did you decide on the thickness and shape for the struts? Why did you chose Hickory versus, say ash? Did you laminate because you needed to get to a certain thickness, or for strength? There is a source for hickory and ash that has 2" (8/4) material in Chico, I think. I got some 1" ash for 2.37 per board foot. Are your "flying struts" (the long struts) also hickory? What shape? Thanks, Ray Krause. P.S. The aerostream tubing is very expensive, about $56.00 per front strut ($28.00/ft and .7593 lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft right now. I am not sure of its quality. None of the aerotubing matches the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 X .75 and 2" X 1"). ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Ray, I had a couple free minutes before I took off for the week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear cabanes. It measures 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18 oz (had to use the postal scales!). Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... <raykrause@frontiernet.net> Shad, Thanks for the comments on the struts. I will probably go with the 4130 struts from Wicks. It is just that I really enjoy the wood working. If the wood were comparable, I would maybe go that way. I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero Reference. The size of the metal struts is included in the plans; so I can probably get pretty close to the right size. Thanks for your help. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 5:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> > > > Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would bet wooden struts are heavier than > streamlined tube. The bolts, and steel end fittings that would be > required add up fast. As for the older metal designation, just usse 4130, > If you need I can see what dimensions ours are, some where in the 2 inch > by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall thickness. also check dillsburg aero works > for tube prices, wicks is also having a special "sale" on streamlined > tubing of some dimensions. I can look up the number for Dillsburg Aero > Works in PA if you need me to, I have a price list out in my hanger, he > does not have a web site. > > > Shad > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 16


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:04:30 AM PST US
    From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: wood struts
    Douwe, Thanks for the response. But has anyone used aluminum struts. ACS sells streamlined aluminum in maximum lengths of 6', if I am reading their catalogue correctly. I am sure they are available somewhere else in longer lengths. Congratulations on your Air Camper's sign-off and flight, if I am remembering correctly. I have not seen the pictures that everyone else is referencing, did I miss something? Thanks, Ray Krause N51YX, Waiex, TD, Jab 3300 (1197), AeroCarb, Sensinich 54X62 wood prop, Dynon D-180, Garmin SL-30, 327, 296, 169 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood struts > <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> > > I remember a while back when people were talking about strut weights, I > went > out and weighed one of my wooden struts with fittings. Someone had > weighed > their steel ones and the wood one was lighter. I can't though find my old > email and don't remember the weights. > > I'll bet the aluminum struts are lighter though. > > Douwe > > >


    Message 17


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:07:36 AM PST US
    From: santiago morete <moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar>
    Subject: Sky Scout...
    Hi Ray, - I think you can use 4130 steel, 1025 steel, aluminum or-wood, round or st reamlined struts,-all that-has been used successfully.- My round, 102 5 steel struts weigh about-5 pounds each. Saludos - Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/


    Message 18


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:44:57 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    - - Not sure I agree with the below statement.- T-88 states using minimal cla mping pressure.- The T-88 isn't hurt by using lots of clampping pressure, FYI, and the Resor cinol requires that. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" <airlion@bellsouth.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:37 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv Jerry, you might consider plastic resin glue by weldwood carried by aircraf t spruce. That is what prop people use, and that is what I am using on my blank that I will have at sun n fun. Gardiner --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> wrote: > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 8:33 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net> > > I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane > and lift struts in the next few days and would like to see > pictures of clamping jigs so I don't have to re-invent the > wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, T-88, and > Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the > time it takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread > on them before clamping. >- Thanks. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > le, List Admin.


    Message 19


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:50:06 AM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: one more view laminating struts
    One more view on laminating cabanes... http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=810&PlaneID=52&FName=Jim&LName=Markle&PlaneName=Air%20Camper If that link doesn't work, check out the build logs on mykitplane.com my .02 -----Original Message----- >From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> >Sent: Feb 23, 2010 9:05 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts > >Jerry, > >I used T-88 & some Resorcinol, but no fancy clamping jigs. I only tried the >resorcinol because I thought the dark brown color would enhance the look of >the lamination. I found, though, that there was little difference between >the two, once all the sanding and finishing was done. Clamping was merely >done with several wood clamps. > >Clamping the struts while shaping was tried in two different ways. #1178 >shows a simple woodworker's vice. I used this on all the landing gear >struts. > >Because of the shape of the cabanes, they were a little more difficult to >clamp. For those I made a jig out of 2x4. The 2x4 has two pin hole locations >on one end as the cabanes are different lengths. This jig accomplishes two >things: first, you can use bolts in the holes to hold the piece down (I put >multiple washers under the strut to hold it up for shaping); secondly, the >jig ensures that each strut has the fittings located exactly right. > > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >Pietenpol >WW Corvair Conversion >Tail done, Fuselage on gear >18 ribs done > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson >Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:33 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > > >I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane and lift struts in >the next few days and would like to see pictures of clamping jigs so I don't >have to re-invent the wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, >T-88, and Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the time it >takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread on them before >clamping. > Thanks. > >-------- >Jerry Dotson >59 Daniel Johnson Rd >Baker, FL 32531 > >Started building NX510JD July, 2009 >Ribs and tailfeathers done >using Lycoming O-235 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > >


    Message 20


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:13:20 AM PST US
    Subject: Pietenpol newbie...or..wow this is cool how do I get started
    From: "skidmk" <skidmk@gmail.com>
    Hi All, I've looked upon the Piet to be built over several summers for my summer camp. www.highflight.ca we'll be getting hands on with young folks aged 10-15, was wondering if you could give me some pointers. What would be the largest pilot the stretch fuse would accomodate? Any pitfalls anyone can stear me away from. this is for the kids, once the aircraft is built, we'll start another and so on,, we will be teaching kids to fly in these planes for free. thanks Mike -------- Mike &quot;Skidmk&quot; Bourget Ottawa, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287834#287834


    Message 21


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:15:47 AM PST US
    From: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    There was a test in "Fine Woodworking" a couple years back that included T-88 joints clamped tightly. Excellent results. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv Not sure I agree with the below statement. T-88 states using minimal clamping pressure. The T-88 isn't hurt by using lots of clampping pressure, FYI, and the Resorcinol requires that. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" <airlion@bellsouth.net> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:37 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv <airlion@bellsouth.net> Jerry, you might consider plastic resin glue by weldwood carried by aircraft spruce. That is what prop people use, and that is what I am using on my blank that I will have at sun n fun. Gardiner --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> wrote: > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 8:33 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net> > > I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane > and lift struts in the next few days and would like to see > pictures of clamping jigs so I don't have to re-invent the > wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, T-88, and > Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the > time it takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread > on them before clamping. > Thanks. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > >tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.b nbsp; -Matt matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contri========= ======


    Message 22


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:22:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
    From: gboothe5@comcast.net
    Ray, FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for spars. Gary Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


    Message 23


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:34:56 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: wood struts
    From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
    I think that Larry Williams is using the aluminum streamline tubing for his struts. I remember asking him at Brodhead this past year where he got the tubing, and I wrote down the source on a little notepad that I had with me, and I have since misplaced the notepad somewhere. -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287839#287839


    Message 24


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:02:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: one more view laminating struts
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Oh crap! Not I get it... the VACUUM BAGGING demonstration. over and over and over and over ... LOL! -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287840#287840


    Message 25


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:34:04 AM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: one more view laminating struts
    I knew that was coming.... -----Original Message----- >From: K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> >Sent: Feb 23, 2010 12:01 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: one more view laminating struts > > >Oh crap! Not I get it... the VACUUM BAGGING demonstration. > >over and over and over and over ... LOL! > >-------- >Mark - working on wings > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287840#287840 > >


    Message 26


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:34:34 AM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: wood struts
    http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html -----Original Message----- >From: Billy McCaskill <billmz@cox.net> >Sent: Feb 23, 2010 11:33 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood struts > > >I think that Larry Williams is using the aluminum streamline tubing for his struts. I remember asking him at Brodhead this past year where he got the tubing, and I wrote down the source on a little notepad that I had with me, and I have since misplaced the notepad somewhere. > >-------- >Billy McCaskill >Urbana, IL >tailfeathers almost done > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287839#287839 > >


    Message 27


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:47:51 AM PST US
    From: John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
    Subject: Re: one more view laminating struts
    I think he's got it! do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Feb 23, 2010, at 12:01 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > Oh crap! Not I get it... the VACUUM BAGGING demonstration. > > over and over and over and over ... LOL! > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287840#287840 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 28


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:12:39 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Larry Williams, Aluminum struts
    As always, Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com 'pictures' web site comes in with excellent value. For more photos go there, under Larry Williams. [cid:image001.jpg@01CAB491.5E92FF70]


    Message 29


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:47:09 AM PST US
    From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: wood struts
    Thanks, Billy. Maybe Larry will respond to this thread. Jim Markle sent me the source for the aluminum struts, looks very good. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood struts > > I think that Larry Williams is using the aluminum streamline tubing for > his struts. I remember asking him at Brodhead this past year where he got > the tubing, and I wrote down the source on a little notepad that I had > with me, and I have since misplaced the notepad somewhere. > > -------- > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL > tailfeathers almost done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287839#287839 > > >


    Message 30


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:47:11 AM PST US
    From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: wood struts
    Jim, This is great information, thanks! This makes the aluminum struts a lot more reasonable... and lighter! Thanks, Ray Krause N51YX, Waiex, TD, Jab 3300 (1197), AeroCarb, Sensinich 54X62 wood prop, Dynon D-180, Garmin SL-30, 327, 296, 169 hrs. and building the Sky Scout ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood struts > <jim_markle@mindspring.com> > > > http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Billy McCaskill <billmz@cox.net> >>Sent: Feb 23, 2010 11:33 AM >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood struts >> >> >>I think that Larry Williams is using the aluminum streamline tubing for >>his struts. I remember asking him at Brodhead this past year where he got >>the tubing, and I wrote down the source on a little notepad that I had >>with me, and I have since misplaced the notepad somewhere. >> >>-------- >>Billy McCaskill >>Urbana, IL >>tailfeathers almost done >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287839#287839 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 31


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:55:05 AM PST US
    From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
    Gary, Thanks for the information. If using the 3/4" spar material, would I still rout out the spar as shown in the plans? Are you building a Sky Scout? Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: gboothe5@comcast.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Ray, FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for spars. Gary Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:59:45 -0800 To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Thanks, Gary. I will accept your humility with a = grain of salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your = abilities! The point about laminating to avoid = wood defects is well taken, I will follow suit. After computing the costs of = the metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood struts! As far as the = spars go, they were included in the wood I got with the Sky Scout package; = they are spruce. But rather than the 1" thickness, they are 3/4", I think I = will sandwich then with two pieces of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so = they fit the ribs). The Hughes Hardwood = place in Chico had beautiful parallel grain fir that would have made beautiful = spars, cheap, too. Next time I am in Chico, I will check out the = hickory. The ash seems to be really dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). I = will try to look it up. Thanks for the response. And yes, I = have referenced Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it makes my eyes and = brain hurt! Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com= Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 = 3:17 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout... Ray, Your questions are intelligent and educated=85.attributes to which I make = no personal claim. In all honesty, I perused the West Coast Piet web site to = exhaustion. Too bad Chris Tracy doesn=92t have sponsors, or he=92d be a rich man! = After looking at every application of wood strut that has been built and is = flying, I decided it was doable. Conversations about appropriate woods went = from ash to spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of = hickory and the decision was that easy. For size, I just used the plans dimensions = for steel. Later conversations with another builder (either Cliff Dawson or Douwe = Blumberg), far more intelligent and educated than I, showed published = strengths of various woods, and verified that hickory had plenty of strength for = our purposes. I think I can find that email, but it=92s on my other = computer at home. My wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the shape and size on the = plans. Connections will surely be similar to Douwe=92s. All cabanes and wing = struts are laminated because=85.that=92s what everyone does! Really, it gives you = an opportunity to rotate the grain and eliminate the possibility of = having a weak link. Also, it looks really cool! My wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in Auburn, Ca (California Hardwoods), who does his own wholesale purchasing in whatever length = and size needed. He even mills, if necessary. He located my fir spars and sold = all four for $185!! Bonus is that he helped build some wood airplanes and knows = what grains to look for. Further note: If anything goes wrong, I=92ll blame Chris Tracy for = publishing all those photos! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of = Ray Krause Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM To: = pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout... Gary, If I made = these 22" struts (front/center) from metal, they would weigh 22+ ounces without = the ends. How did you decide on the thickness and shape for the struts? = Why did you chose Hickory versus, say ash? Did you laminate because you = needed to get to a certain thickness, or for strength? There is a = source for hickory and ash that has 2" (8/4) material in Chico, I think. I = got some 1" ash for 2.37 per board foot. Are your = "flying struts" (the long struts) also hickory? What shape? Thanks, Ray Krause. P.S. The = aerostream tubing is very expensive, about $56.00 per front strut ($28.00/ft and = .7593 lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft right now. I am not sure of its = quality. None of the aerotubing matches the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 = X .75 and 2" X 1"). ----- = Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com= Sent: = Monday, February 22, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Ray, I had a couple free minutes before I took = off for the week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear cabanes. It = measures 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18 oz (had to use the postal scales!). Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, = mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down=85) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol= -list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... <raykrause@frontiernet.net> Shad, Thanks for the comments on the struts. = I will probably go with the 4130 struts from Wicks. It is just that I = really enjoy the wood working. If the wood were comparable, I would maybe go that way. I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero = Reference. The size of the metal struts is included in the plans; so I can = probably get pretty close to the right size. Thanks for your help. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 5:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... > --> Pietenpol-List message posted = by: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> > > > Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would bet = wooden struts are heavier than > streamlined tube. The bolts, and = steel end fittings that would be > required add up fast. As for the = older metal designation, just usse 4130, > If you need I can see what dimensions = ours are, some where in the 2 inch > by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall = thickness. also check dillsburg aero works > for tube prices, wicks is also having a = special "sale" on streamlined > tubing of some dimensions. I can = look up the number for Dillsburg Aero > Works in PA if you need me to, I have a = price list out in my hanger, he > does not have a web = site. > > > Shad > > > > > > > > < /PRE>http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List< B>< /PRE>http://forums.matronics.com < /PRE> http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution< /PRE> href=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.m at ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href=3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href=3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com /c 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ~=B2=03r


    Message 32


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:20:29 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
    From: gboothe5@comcast.net
    Negative. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


    Message 33


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:23:57 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Take a look at the Technical Data Sheet for T-88, which is information coming straight from the manufacturer of the product: <http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf> http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf They go so far as to say that "clamping is not necessary if the joint is undisturbed during set-up of the adhesive". Minimal clamping, as Michael noted, would be prudent to ensure the joint is stable while curing. However, "lots of clamping pressure" is certainly not needed, and can lead to a weak joint due to excessive pressure starving the joint of epoxy. Ryan On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:14 AM, David Paule <dpaule@frii.com> wrote: > There was a test in "Fine Woodworking" a couple years back that included > T-88 joints clamped tightly. > > Excellent results. > > David Paule > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:42 AM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > > > Not sure I agree with the below statement. T-88 states using minimal > clamping pressure. > > > The T-88 isn't hurt by using lots of clampping pressure, FYI, and the > Resorcinol > requires that. > > David Paule > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "airlion" <airlion@bellsouth.net> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:37 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > > > > > > Jerry, you might consider plastic resin glue by weldwood carried by > aircraft > spruce. That is what prop people use, and that is what I am using on my > blank that I will have at sun n fun. Gardiner > > --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jdotson@erec.net>> > wrote: > > > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jdotson@erec.net> > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 8:33 AM > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jdotson@erec.net> > > > > > > I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane > > and lift struts in the next few days and would like to see > > pictures of clamping jigs so I don't have to re-invent the > > wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, T-88, and > > Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the > > time it takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread > > on them before clamping. > > Thanks. > > > > -------- > > Jerry Dotson > > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > > Baker, FL 32531 > > > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > > Ribs and tailfeathers done > > using Lycoming O-235 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > > FAQ, > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > >tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" > target=_blank>http://www.matronics.b nbsp; -Matt > matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank> > http://www.matronics.com/contri=============== > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > >


    Message 34


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:48:21 PM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts
    Are those... could it be.... RIBS???!?? do not archive comments from the peanut gallery ;-) On 02/23/2010 09:05 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Jerry, > > I used T-88& some Resorcinol, but no fancy clamping jigs. I only tried the > resorcinol because I thought the dark brown color would enhance the look of > the lamination. I found, though, that there was little difference between > the two, once all the sanding and finishing was done. Clamping was merely > done with several wood clamps. > > Clamping the struts while shaping was tried in two different ways. #1178 > shows a simple woodworker's vice. I used this on all the landing gear > struts. > > Because of the shape of the cabanes, they were a little more difficult to > clamp. For those I made a jig out of 2x4. The 2x4 has two pin hole locations > on one end as the cabanes are different lengths. This jig accomplishes two > things: first, you can use bolts in the holes to hold the piece down (I put > multiple washers under the strut to hold it up for shaping); secondly, the > jig ensures that each strut has the fittings located exactly right. > > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > 18 ribs done > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:33 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"<jdotson@erec.net> > > I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane and lift struts in > the next few days and would like to see pictures of clamping jigs so I don't > have to re-invent the wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, > T-88, and Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the time it > takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread on them before > clamping. > Thanks. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."


    Message 35


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 01:53:28 PM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    On 02/23/2010 09:47 AM, David Paule wrote: > > I have read somewhere, recently and I can't find the link, dang it, that > Plastic Resin glue loses strength after repeated changes of humidity. It > might have been that Advisory Circular about maintaining old aircraft. > > Might check into that. > > Of the glues mentioned, I'd choose either the Resorcinol or the T-88. > The T-88 isn't hurt by using lots of clampping pressure, FYI, and the > Resorcinol requires that. I have heard that T-88 is VERY much hurt by too much clamping pressure. DON'T DO IT! Airplanes have fallen apart in flight because too much T-88 was squeezed out of the joint! Keep the clamping pressure to a minimum with T-88. Probably all epoxies, in general. -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."


    Message 36


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:15:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: laminating struts
    From: gboothe5@comcast.net
    Hanging in the background? Yes, but that pic was from 6 mos ago. Might have done one or two since then. I'm sensitive about that... Gary Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts Are those... could it be.... RIBS???!?? do not archive comments from the peanut gallery ;-) On 02/23/2010 09:05 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Jerry, > > I used T-88& some Resorcinol, but no fancy clamping jigs. I only tried the > resorcinol because I thought the dark brown color would enhance the look of > the lamination. I found, though, that there was little difference between > the two, once all the sanding and finishing was done. Clamping was merely > done with several wood clamps. > > Clamping the struts while shaping was tried in two different ways. #1178 > shows a simple woodworker's vice. I used this on all the landing gear > struts. > > Because of the shape of the cabanes, they were a little more difficult to > clamp. For those I made a jig out of 2x4. The 2x4 has two pin hole locations > on one end as the cabanes are different lengths. This jig accomplishes two > things: first, you can use bolts in the holes to hold the piece down (I put > multiple washers under the strut to hold it up for shaping); secondly, the > jig ensures that each strut has the fittings located exactly right. > > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > 18 ribs done > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:33 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson"<jdotson@erec.net> > > I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane and lift struts in > the next few days and would like to see pictures of clamping jigs so I don't > have to re-invent the wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, > T-88, and Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the time it > takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread on them before > clamping. > Thanks. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."


    Message 37


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:16:29 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Pics from Edwards AFB Open House 2009
    Cool pictures, Steve. I liked the soundclips. And I always get a thrill out of seeing F-16s fly. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pics from Edwards AFB Open House 2009 <chase143@aol.com> Slightly off topic, but some very cool pictures. Glad to see Edwards is holding open houses again. Very impressive show of aircraft if you can make it. Perhaps someone could add a Piet. http://home.comcast.net/~bzee1a/Edwards09/Edwards09.html Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287782#287782


    Message 38


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:49:58 PM PST US
    From: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    Dan, if you can substantiate your comment below, please do so. Ryan, I found the article in "Fine Woodworking," August '07, page 37. Their testing was of a tight fit joint, a snug fit joint and a loose fit joint. They tested Maple, Oak and Ipe, none of them being woods we'd customarily use in aircraft structures. The joint design they tested not only didn't lend itself to calculating the shear strength of the glue, they didn't give enough information to make that possible. The data are only suitable for comparing one fit and one type of wood to another. With that in mind, the comparison is worth considering, especially for the difference of strength with the different fits. I want to emphasize that the strengths given in the article are not psi, and that they can't be compared to the 1,800 psi lap shear strength of T-88 with maple on the PDF sheet that Ryan referenced. Their data for T-88 with Maple is: Tight joint, 1,690 pounds, Snug joint, 1,680 pounds, Loose joint, 1,635 pounds. Their T-88 data for Oak is: Tight joint, 1,908 pounds, Snug joint, 1,832 pounds, Loose joint, 1,557 pounds. Their T-88 data for Ipe is: Tight joint, 2,425 pounds, Snug joint, 2,712 pounds, Loose joint, 2,503 pounds. They also tested Titebond III and got roughly the same values. Other glues that they tested were Elmer's Carpenter's Glue, Gorilla Glue, J.E> Moser's Ground Hide Glue, and Old Brown Glue. The tight-fit joints needed to be tapped together. They didn't say that they clamped them The snug-fit joints needed only hand pressure, and the loose-fit joints had a small gap. They said they used ample glue. Incidentally, the hide glues were roughly 3/4 the strength of T-88 or the PVA glues (Titebond or Elmers, which were all close) and the polyurethane glue was distinctly weaker, and proved the most sensitive to the fit of the joint. I hope this eases some of your concern here. T-88 is a reasonably forgiving glue. And again, please supply references to back up the statement below if you can. Thanks! David Paule P.S. Inasmuch as these airplanes are certified as experimental, actually running a controlled experiment and reporting the results might be a fun thing for someone to do. > Airplanes have fallen apart in flight because too much > T-88 was squeezed out of the joint! > Dan Take a look at the Technical Data Sheet for T-88, which is information coming straight from the manufacturer of the product: http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf They go so far as to say that "clamping is not necessary if the joint is undisturbed during set-up of the adhesive". Minimal clamping, as Michael noted, would be prudent to ensure the joint is stable while curing. However, "lots of clamping pressure" is certainly not needed, and can lead to a weak joint due to excessive pressure starving the joint of epoxy. Ryan On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:14 AM, David Paule <dpaule@frii.com> wrote: There was a test in "Fine Woodworking" a couple years back that included T-88 joints clamped tightly. Excellent results. David Paule


    Message 39


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:12:44 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Aluminum struts
    For alluminum struts, you might try Carlson Aircraft, out of East Palistine Ohio. My dad and I flew over there in 99, before he decided on the Piet, and he had all kinds of alum. for the kits he designed, extruded I beams etc etc. Tragicly, Errnie was killed only a few months later due to an engine failure shortly after takeoff. The companny still continues to do buisness as of the last I checked. Give it a google search and see what you find. Shad


    Message 40


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:41:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
    From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com>
    Hi Ray, I think they've sold somewhere between 130 and 140 Waiex kits now. The best I can tell, about 20 or so seem to be flying. Got the panel in over the weekend, then the 9 yr old and I went hunting "The Baron"... almost got Snoopy and the doghouse in the process, but he saw Scotty waving and Snoop managed to get out the way in time... Lorin Lorin, You make me feel better! I delayed starting the Scout to let my wife adjust a little, but now that it is started, I really enjoy it. I really enjoy the building; but flying the Waiex is a real hoot! It is always hard to decide which I want to do when the sun shines. How many Waiex's are out and how many flying now? They are really beautiful ships. Thanks, Ray Krause N51YX, Waiex, TD, Jab 3300 (1197), AeroCarb, Sensinich 54X62 wood prop, Dynon D-180, Garmin SL-30, 327, 296, 169 hrs. --- -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX Pietenpol next up Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287905#287905


    Message 41


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:49:53 PM PST US
    From: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
    A buddy of mine is building a Xenos... nice kit, and he says things line up really good. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sky Scout... > > Hi Ray, > I think they've sold somewhere between 130 and 140 Waiex kits now. The > best I can tell, about 20 or so seem to be flying. Got the panel in over > the weekend, then the 9 yr old and I went hunting "The Baron"... almost > got Snoopy and the doghouse in the process, but he saw Scotty waving and > Snoop managed to get out the way in time... > Lorin > > > Lorin, > > You make me feel better! I delayed starting the Scout to let my wife > adjust > a little, but now that it is started, I really enjoy it. I really enjoy > the > building; but flying the Waiex is a real hoot! It is always hard to decide > which I want to do when the sun shines. > > How many Waiex's are out and how many flying now? They are really > beautiful > ships. > > Thanks, > > Ray Krause > > N51YX, Waiex, TD, Jab 3300 (1197), AeroCarb, Sensinich 54X62 wood prop, > Dynon D-180, Garmin SL-30, 327, 296, 169 hrs. > --- > > -------- > Lorin Miller > Waiex N81YX > Pietenpol next up > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287905#287905 > > >


    Message 42


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:29:11 PM PST US
    From: "Jack" <jack@textors.com>
    Subject: Pics from Edwards AFB Open House 2009
    God Bless America! Great pictures! Thanks Jack DSM Slightly off topic, but some very cool pictures. Glad to see Edwards is holding open houses again. Very impressive show of aircraft if you can make it. Perhaps someone could add a Piet. http://home.comcast.net/~bzee1a/Edwards09/Edwards09.html Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287782#287782


    Message 43


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:35:08 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: laminating struts
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net>
    Thanks for the pictures Gary. I think I will use T-88. I am going to laminate the gear legs too. Did you try any stain? I believe I will just varnish without any stain. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287914#287914


    Message 44


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:48:12 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: FW: Roll your mouse over any airport for the current conditions.
    It works Roll your mouse over any airport for the current conditions. Pretty Neat That's more than pretty neat. That's frappin' unbelievable! Damn! Click on the locations too and get even more wx info. Pilots sure have a lot of toys to play with now... interactive computer maps, glass cockpits, GPS, goggles that see thru the airplane skin, fighters that can tailslide and cobra, ....... is there more we don't know about? http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/zoa/mwmap3.php?map=usa


    Message 45


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 07:34:34 PM PST US
    From: Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    On 02/23/2010 05:48 PM, David Paule wrote: > Dan, if you can substantiate your comment below, please do so. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 010727X01532&key=1 "...examination of the left front upper spar revealed that the adhesive used on the plywood doubler did not cover the entire area being bonded to the spar." Having talked to a couple people who were familiar with the accident, I understand that the lack of coverage to be due to the adhesive being squeezed out by excessive clamping pressures. These people don't work for the FAA or the USDA Forest Products Lab, so they could have been mistaken and just drew incorrect conclusions from the report. > P.S. Inasmuch as these airplanes are certified as experimental, actually > running a controlled experiment and reporting the results might be a fun > thing for someone to do. I would like to do that test, but everything being equal and the lack of time I have, I probably won't be able to any time soon. Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."


    Message 46


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:01:33 PM PST US
    From: "David Paule" <dpaule@frii.com>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    Dan, Thanks for the link. I read it and followed its link to a full report, which says it wasn't T-88, it was a different glue; it contains this: ------------------------------- TESTS AND RESEARCH The USDA Forest Products Laboratory examined the left and right wing spar sections and their respective doublers. The examination of the wood spar composition revealed the cellular structure of the spars was consistent with that of Sitka Spruce, and the species that made up the plys of the plywood doublers were maple and yellow poplar. Chemical analysis of the adhesive bonds indicated Urea-formaldehyde was used for attaching the doubler plates. The examination of the left front upper spar revealed that the adhesive used on the plywood doubler did not cover the entire area being bonded to the spar. The Forest Products Laboratory report stated, "There was also very little penetration of the adhesive into the spar." The examination of the right front and rear upper spars revealed the compression and tension surfaces. The examination of the bond on the right upper rear spar doubler revealed the doubler was still bonded to the spar, but there was a lack of adhesive at the outer edges of the doubler plate. The lack of adhesive created a gap between the spar and the doubler. -------------------------------- So this failure was not a T-88 failure due to excessive clamping pressure. It was a different glue and they apparently didn't use enough of it. Excessive glue could have been squeezed out. However, with a urea-formaldehyde type glue, my understanding is that it's pretty hard to get excessive glue pressure. I'd think that insufficient coverage rather than too much pressure would have been the cause due to that. One common urea-formaldehyde glue is Weldwood Plastic Resin. I looked up their data sheet, http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf and it says this about pressure: "Once the glue is applied, pressure should be applied. Soft wood and machined hard woods can be glued at low pressures (50 PSI). Rough cut parts require more pressure (175 to 300 PSI) for softwood and hardwood respectively. Sufficient adhesive should be applied so that some squeeze out of excess adhesive is visible at edges. Glue line thickness should be from 0.003 + 0.006 inch for best results." That's a lot of pressure! If that doesn't squeeze out "too much" glue, the whole concept of squeezing out too much glue is nothing but an urban myth. Dan, if you should decide to run some tests, I'd be glad to help out if I can. Thanks for the interesting link! David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum@fnal.gov> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > > > On 02/23/2010 05:48 PM, David Paule wrote: >> Dan, if you can substantiate your comment below, please do so. > > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 010727X01532&key=1 > > "...examination of the left front upper spar revealed that the adhesive > used on the plywood doubler did not cover the entire area being bonded to > the spar." > > Having talked to a couple people who were familiar with the accident, I > understand that the lack of coverage to be due to the adhesive being > squeezed out by excessive clamping pressures. These people don't work for > the FAA or the USDA Forest Products Lab, so they could have been mistaken > and just drew incorrect conclusions from the report. > >> P.S. Inasmuch as these airplanes are certified as experimental, actually >> running a controlled experiment and reporting the results might be a fun >> thing for someone to do. > > I would like to do that test, but everything being equal and the lack of > time I have, I probably won't be able to any time soon. > > Dan > > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > >


    Message 47


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:10:39 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    Absolutely! T-88 or any such glue requires a thin film be left between the wood layers. Just tighten enough to make sure you've squeezed out some around the edges so you know all the surfaces are covered. Resourcinal, Tightbond, yellow, white glues all require squeezing all excess glue out of the joint. Clif Not sure I agree with the below statement. T-88 states using minimal clamping pressure. The T-88 isn't hurt by using lots of clampping pressure, FYI, and the Resorcinol requires that. David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "airlion" <airlion@bellsouth.net> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:37 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv <airlion@bellsouth.net> Jerry, you might consider plastic resin glue by weldwood carried by aircraft spruce. That is what prop people use, and that is what I am using on my blank that I will have at sun n fun. Gardiner --- On Tue, 2/23/10, Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> wrote: > From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts and tv > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 8:33 AM > --> Pietenpol-List message posted > by: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net> > > I am going to be laminating wood for landing gear, cabane > and lift struts in the next few days and would like to see > pictures of clamping jigs so I don't have to re-invent the > wheel. What glues did you use? I have Resorcinol, T-88, and > Titebond III. I am leaning toward the T-88 because of the > time it takes to get several strips of wood with glue spread > on them before clamping. > Thanks. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287781#287781 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > >tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.b nbsp; -Matt matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contri========= ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/22/10 11:34:00


    Message 48


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:21:40 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts
    Jerry, You're welcomed! I did not use any stain. I think most woods are beautiful without it! My 'varnish' is Min-Wax Urethane Spar Varnish. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts Thanks for the pictures Gary. I think I will use T-88. I am going to laminate the gear legs too. Did you try any stain? I believe I will just varnish without any stain. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287914#287914


    Message 49


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:51:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Hi David, There are a few inconsistencies in your arguments. You initially said "The T-88 isn't hurt by using lots of clamping pressure". Later you stated "There was a test in "Fine Woodworking" a couple years back that included T-88 joints clamped tightly." But when you later post a summary of that article, you noted that "The tight-fit joints needed to be tapped together. They didn't say that they clamped them." Along with other comments about the data and methods of testing not being useful for comparison to T-88, it would appear that your data does not really support your claim. Insofar as your latest post, you postulate that "That's a lot of pressure! If that doesn't squeeze out "too much" glue, the whole concept of squeezing out too much glue is nothing but an urban myth.". Well, the glue you are referring to is a type of glue that does need plenty of clamping pressure....we are not disputing that....this was about T-88, which has different clamping pressure requirements. I point you again to the website of System Three, the manufacturer of T-88. Since they developed and produce the product I would consider them to be a credible authority on how best to use it. On their site you can find "The Epoxy Handbook", which contains all kinds of information on how to use their products: http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/m_published-literature.asp In section VII D, they note the following about bonding with epoxy: "Third, do not over-clamp. Epoxy resins require only contact pressure. Over-clamping can squeeze most of the adhesive out of the glue joint and the epoxy that is left is absorbed into the wood starving the joint. A glue-starved joint is very weak. Use only enough pressure to hold the joint immobile and keep the two surfaces in contact until the epoxy has set overnight at normal temperatures. Nails, screws, clamps, rubber bands, or staples can all be utilized. Clamp just hard enough to close up the joint." I would say that the above paragraph is just about directly contradictory to your statement that "The T-88 isn't hurt by using lots of clamping pressure"", and your assertion that squeeze out is a myth; since it comes right from the people that make the product....I would have to give them the edge on this one. Have a good evening, Ryan On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:00 PM, David Paule <dpaule@frii.com> wrote: > > Dan, > > Thanks for the link. I read it and followed its link to a full report, > which says it wasn't T-88, it was a different glue; it contains this: > ------------------------------- > > TESTS AND RESEARCH > > The USDA Forest Products Laboratory examined the left and right wing spar > sections and their respective doublers. The examination of the wood spar > composition revealed the cellular structure of the spars was consistent with > that of Sitka Spruce, and the species that made up the plys of the plywood > doublers were maple and yellow poplar. Chemical analysis of the adhesive > bonds indicated Urea-formaldehyde was used for attaching the doubler plates. > > The examination of the left front upper spar revealed that the adhesive > used on the plywood doubler did not cover the entire area being bonded to > the spar. The Forest Products Laboratory report stated, "There was also very > little penetration of the adhesive into the spar." > > The examination of the right front and rear upper spars revealed the > compression and tension surfaces. The examination of the bond on the right > upper rear spar doubler revealed the doubler was still bonded to the spar, > but there was a lack of adhesive at the outer edges of the doubler plate. > The lack of adhesive created a gap between the spar and the doubler. > > -------------------------------- > So this failure was not a T-88 failure due to excessive clamping pressure. > It was a different glue and they apparently didn't use enough of it. > Excessive glue could have been squeezed out. However, with a > urea-formaldehyde type glue, my understanding is that it's pretty hard to > get excessive glue pressure. I'd think that insufficient coverage rather > than too much pressure would have been the cause due to that. > > One common urea-formaldehyde glue is Weldwood Plastic Resin. I looked up > their data sheet, http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030201.pdf and it says > this about pressure: > > "Once the glue is applied, pressure should be applied. Soft wood and > machined hard woods can be glued at low > pressures (50 PSI). Rough cut parts require more pressure (175 to 300 PSI) > for softwood and hardwood > respectively. Sufficient adhesive should be applied so that some squeeze > out of excess adhesive is visible at > edges. Glue line thickness should be from 0.003 + 0.006 inch for best > results." > > That's a lot of pressure! If that doesn't squeeze out "too much" glue, the > whole concept of squeezing out too much glue is nothing but an urban myth. > > Dan, if you should decide to run some tests, I'd be glad to help out if I > can. > > Thanks for the interesting link! > > David Paule > >


    Message 50


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:09:07 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: laminating struts
    Again I have to say absolutely! don't forget that stain penetrates into the wood. This means that the softest part of the wood takes in the most and the harder parts the least. This can reverse the grain pattern and look strange, especialy on softwoods like Spruce. The depth and pattern of natural colour dissappears too. Clif > Jerry, > > You're welcomed! I did not use any stain. I think most woods are beautiful > without it! My 'varnish' is Min-Wax Urethane Spar Varnish. > > Gary Boothe


    Message 51


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:34:59 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: wood struts
    From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
    It was indeed Carlson Aircraft where Larry told me that he got his aluminum strut tubing from. I found my notepad this afternoon... -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287934#287934




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   pietenpol-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Pietenpol-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --