---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/24/10: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:35 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Clif Dawson) 2. 04:33 AM - Re: laminating struts (Jerry Dotson) 3. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Lloyd Smith) 4. 05:57 AM - Aluminum struts (helspersew@aol.com) 5. 08:03 AM - Re: Aluminum struts (Pietn38b@aol.com) 6. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: laminating struts (Dan Yocum) 7. 08:19 AM - Re: Aluminum struts (bryan green) 8. 09:02 AM - Sun n Fun (Dick N) 9. 09:13 AM - Re: Sun n Fun (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 10. 11:03 AM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Ben Charvet) 11. 11:44 AM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Wayne Bressler) 12. 12:22 PM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Roman Bukolt) 13. 01:03 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (greg menoche) 14. 01:03 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause) 15. 01:03 PM - getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 16. 01:13 PM - "Red Betsy" the movie (Barry Davis) 17. 01:22 PM - Re: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com) 18. 01:22 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (Ryan Mueller) 19. 01:22 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Rick Holland) 20. 01:25 PM - Re: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's (Rick Holland) 21. 01:31 PM - "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 22. 01:37 PM - Cox pt-19, off topic (shad bell) 23. 01:44 PM - Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video (Ryan Mueller) 24. 01:44 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Wayne Bressler) 25. 01:47 PM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Lloyd Smith) 26. 01:55 PM - Cox control line models and night fires (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 27. 03:05 PM - Re: Cox control line models and night fires (Mike) 28. 03:22 PM - Re: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore (Dave and Connie) 29. 03:44 PM - Re: Cox control line models and night fires (Rick Holland) 30. 03:53 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Jack Phillips) 31. 04:06 PM - Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in Y (Pieti Lowell) 32. 04:23 PM - Re: Cox control line models and night fires (Jack Phillips) 33. 04:24 PM - Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video (helspersew@aol.com) 34. 04:44 PM - Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (helspersew@aol.com) 35. 04:44 PM - struts (Douwe Blumberg) 36. 06:02 PM - (Ben Ramler) 37. 06:47 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Jack Phillips) 38. 06:50 PM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (Jack Phillips) 39. 07:03 PM - Re: Finally making sawdust and progress! (Wayne Bressler) 40. 07:03 PM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (airlion) 41. 07:29 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (Dick N) 42. 08:01 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Gary Boothe) 43. 08:20 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause) 44. 08:30 PM - Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder (VAHOWDY@aol.com) 45. 09:01 PM - Re: Dillsburg Areo (Ray Krause) 46. 09:11 PM - Re: Sky Scout... (Ray Krause) 47. 09:19 PM - Re: Larry Williams, Aluminum struts (Ray Krause) 48. 11:11 PM - Red Betsy - on to Boscobel (Gerry Holland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:57 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts This is great! All these new Piets coming along with wood struts! I had this link from a while back for Aluminum streamline tubing from Skytek. It's not them anymore! Clif "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." (Eric Hoffer) > Jerry, > > I used T-88 & some Resorcinol, but no fancy clamping jigs. > Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts From: "Jerry Dotson" My 'varnish' is ALSO Min-Wax Urethane Spar Varnish. I like the stuff. Staining makes me nervous. I had a pine project ruined when I stained it. The soft grain looked "muddy". -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287945#287945 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts From: Lloyd Smith When staining softwoods, apply a very thin coat of varnish first to seal open grain, lightly sand, stain as usual, then varnish. On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 7:33 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > > My 'varnish' is ALSO Min-Wax Urethane Spar Varnish. I like the stuff. > Staining makes me nervous. I had a pine project ruined when I stained it. > The soft grain looked "muddy". > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287945#287945 > > -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum struts From: helspersew@aol.com Hi All, I used the alum struts like Larry Williams. The aluminum insert is 7075 al uminum that I got from Mcmastercarr.com. The bottom fitting (not shown) is the 7075 insert, that I tapped for J-3 forked wing strut fitting (ACS or Wag Aero?). Inserts are bolted through the strut with 1/4" bolts. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:26 AM PST US From: Pietn38b@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum struts All These are done the same way I did mine in 1995. I have taken mine apart a couple of times to check for corrosion, all looks good. I got my strut material from a kit manufacturer in Kansas. Rans Aircraft I think. At the time the cost was about 1/4th the cost of making them from 4130. Jim Ballew Pietenpol N38B Collinsville, Ok. In a message dated 2/24/2010 8:00:01 A.M. Central Standard Time, helspersew@aol.com writes: Hi All, I used the alum struts like Larry Williams. The aluminum insert is 7075 aluminum that I got from Mcmastercarr.com. The bottom fitting (not shown) is the 7075 insert, that I tapped for J-3 forked wing strut fitting (ACS or Wag Aero?). Inserts are bolted through the strut with 1/4" bolts. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:05 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: laminating struts On 02/24/2010 06:33 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" > > My 'varnish' is ALSO Min-Wax Urethane Spar Varnish. I like the stuff. Staining makes me nervous. I had a pine project ruined when I stained it. The soft grain looked "muddy". > Minwax makes a pre-stain wood conditioner for soft woods. It works well - I used it on the 0.75mi of Doug Fir I used for trim in the house... Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:18 AM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum struts What size did you use for the cabanes and struts Jim? Bryan Green Elgin SC ----- Original Message ----- From: Pietn38b@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum struts All These are done the same way I did mine in 1995. I have taken mine apart a couple of times to check for corrosion, all looks good. I got my strut material from a kit manufacturer in Kansas. Rans Aircraft I think. At the time the cost was about 1/4th the cost of making them from 4130. Jim Ballew Pietenpol N38B Collinsville, Ok. In a message dated 2/24/2010 8:00:01 A.M. Central Standard Time, helspersew@aol.com writes: Hi All, I used the alum struts like Larry Williams. The aluminum insert is 7075 aluminum that I got from Mcmastercarr.com. The bottom fitting (not shown) is the 7075 insert, that I tapped for J-3 forked wing strut fitting (ACS or Wag Aero?). Inserts are bolted through the strut with 1/4" bolts. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:05 AM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun I just finished watching the morning news and it looks like you east coasters are going to be getting another snow storm. Time to start packing up and heading for Lakeland, Fl. for Sun and Fun. I have been told that our Wood work Shop will be back in the indoors where it was 2 years ago. For all who are not familiar, that workshop is kind of the 2nd home of Pietenpol after Brodhead. If anybody needs anything built for a Pietenpol contact me directly we can do it. Projects on hand for this year are a prop for Gardiner Mason and if no other projects come around a fuselage for me and maybe a tail section also. These will be for my new Sky Scout. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:31 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Dick you're building a THIRD Pietenpol by chance ? You mention building a fuselage for you at SNF. Maybe that is just a good general woodworking project for the wood tent. If not, go for it ! Do you still have your 65 hp Continental Pietenpol ? Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:26 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore That's a pretty neat model, but the availability such inexpensive alternatives to building this kind of stuff from a kit (or better yet from plans) eventually really hurts the future of projects like the Pietenpol. Do remember when you were a kid, the ready to fly plastic control line airplanes that were available? I never saw one fly very well, or nearly as well as a kit-built balsa model. When I quit flying radio control stuff 6 years ago, it was already cheaper to buy a Ready to Fly airplane than it was to buy the kit, covering, and accessories. I'm thankful now that my dad was a plans builder of model airplanes, and passed those skills/inclinations on to me. Hopefully I've passed those skills on to my sons... Ben Charvet On 2/23/2010 8:16 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary > progress since I was a lad. > No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check > out those flashing LED nav lights ! > Mike C. > do not archive > _http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm_ > Scroll down and click on video to play. > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:02 AM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore Some of the ARF models fly fantastic. Some of the really cheap no- name junk flies, well.. Like junk. Building from a kit or from scratch is becoming increasingly rare. We can see the same things happening in full-scale airplane building. The RV series is so popular due to the step-by-step nature of it's assembly. Many of the older plans-built planes are falling into obscurity. I will make this one observation: People will build the plane they want. Regardless if it's plans-built or "quick build". It's the passion for the design that keeps airplanes like the Pietenpol alive. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On Feb 24, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > That's a pretty neat model, but the availability such inexpensive > alternatives to building this kind of stuff from a kit (or better > yet from plans) eventually really hurts the future of projects like > the Pietenpol. Do remember when you were a kid, the ready to fly > plastic control line airplanes that were available? I never saw one > fly very well, or nearly as well as a kit-built balsa model. When I > quit flying radio control stuff 6 years ago, it was already cheaper > to buy a Ready to Fly airplane than it was to buy the kit, covering, > and accessories. I'm thankful now that my dad was a plans builder > of model airplanes, and passed those skills/inclinations on to me. > Hopefully I've passed those skills on to my sons... > > Ben Charvet > > > On 2/23/2010 8:16 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace > Corporation] wrote: >> >> For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary >> progress since I was a lad. >> >> No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check >> out those flashing LED nav lights ! >> >> Mike C. >> >> do not archive >> >> >> http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm >> >> Scroll down and click on video to play. >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:01 PM PST US From: Roman Bukolt Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore In 1989 I participated in a Giant Scale RC model event held at EAA. At that time we were told that that the average age of RC model builders was over 50 yrs. That was before ARFs were invented. There was one company in the U.S. who manufactured an almost ready to fly series of kits. I don't remember the name but their fuselages were molded plastic and the wings were plastic covered foam. On the other hand, I first introduced my 1/4th scale Fleet Biplane in 1978, the first kit on the market designed to be powered by a chain saw engine. Over the last 32 yrs. I sold over 5000 of them. Then in 1989 when electrics were catching on, I introduced the 1/6th scale electric Fleet. Curiously, today, I'm still getting orders for both sizes. Yes, most of the builders range in age from 50 to 80. This is with virtually no advertising. The profits from the kits are what provide the materials for the Piet I'm building. After all it's basically nothing more then a person controlled 1ft. = 1ft. scale model airplane. It was interesting that last year, 2009, with the recession my sales increased 300%. Talking to my customers, most were laid off and needed a lengthy project to keep them busy. I do have a website for the curious, www.conceptmodelsllc.com On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > That's a pretty neat model, but the availability such inexpensive > alternatives to building this kind of stuff from a kit (or better > yet from plans) eventually really hurts the future of projects like > the Pietenpol. Do remember when you were a kid, the ready to fly > plastic control line airplanes that were available? I never saw one > fly very well, or nearly as well as a kit-built balsa model. When I > quit flying radio control stuff 6 years ago, it was already cheaper > to buy a Ready to Fly airplane than it was to buy the kit, covering, > and accessories. I'm thankful now that my dad was a plans builder > of model airplanes, and passed those skills/inclinations on to me. > Hopefully I've passed those skills on to my sons... > > Ben Charvet > > > On 2/23/2010 8:16 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace > Corporation] wrote: >> >> For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary >> progress since I was a lad. >> >> No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check >> out those flashing LED nav lights ! >> >> Mike C. >> >> do not archive >> >> >> http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm >> >> Scroll down and click on video to play. >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:13 PM PST US From: greg menoche Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Dick, any chance of a rudder. Greg Menoche here in DE working on ribs. It would be a great feeling to know that members at S&F had a part in the completion of my one day Piet? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Dick N Sent: Feb 24, 2010 11:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun I just finished watching the morning news and it looks like you east coasters are going to be getting another snow storm. Time to start packing up and heading for Lakeland, Fl. for Sun and Fun. I have been told that our Wood work Shop will be back in the indoors where it was 2 years ago. For all who are not familiar, that workshop is kind of the 2nd home of Pietenpol after Brodhead. If anybody needs anything built for a Pietenpol contact me directly we can do it. Projects on hand for this year are a prop for Gardiner Mason and if no other projects come around a fuselage for me and maybe a tail section also. These will be for my new Sky Scout. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:13 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Gary, Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started with these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper! Thanks for the info on the spars. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: gboothe5@comcast.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Negative. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: "Ray Krause" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:54 -0800 To: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Gary, Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar material, would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans? Are you building a Sky Scout? Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: gboothe5@comcast.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com= Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout... Ray, FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars. Gary Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Thanks, Gary. I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain of=3D20 salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D abilities! The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects is=3D20 well taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the costs of =3D the=3D20 metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood = struts! As far as the =3D spars=3D20 go, they were included in the wood I got = with the Sky Scout package; =3D they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" = thickness, they are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces = of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the ribs). = The Hughes Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had beautiful parallel grain fir that would have made beautiful =3D spars,=3D20 = cheap, too. Next time I am in Chico, I will check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20 The ash seems to be really dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I =3D will=3D20 try to look it up. Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have referenced=3D20 Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it = makes my eyes and =3D brain=3D20 hurt! Ray ----- Original Message ----- From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics= .com=3D =3D20 Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout... Ray, Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and = educated=3D85.attributes to which I make =3D no personal=3D20 claim. In all honesty, I perused = the West Coast Piet web site to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris Tracy = doesn=3D92t have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D After=3D20 looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built and is =3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable. Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of =3D hickory = and=3D20 the decision was that easy. For size, I just used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20 steel. Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either = Cliff Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent and = educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20 various woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email, but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home. My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the = shape and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely be similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone does! Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the = grain and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20 link. Also, it = looks really cool! My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in = Auburn, Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own wholesale purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20 needed. He even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped = build some wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to look = for. Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll blame Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos! Gary=3D20 Boothe Cool,=3D20 CA Pietenpol WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear 18=3D20 ribs done From:=3D20 owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20 [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of = =3D Ray=3D20 Krause Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM To: =3D pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout... Gary, If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center) from metal, they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D the=3D20 ends. How did you decide on the = thickness and shape for the struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say = ash? Did you laminate because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D source for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico, I think. I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board foot. Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts) also hickory? = What=3D20 shape? Thanks, Ray=3D20 Krause. P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very expensive, about $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D .7593=3D20 lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I am not sure of its =3D quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches = the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and 2" X 1"). ----- =3D Original=3D20 Message ----- From: Gary=3D20 Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20 Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Ray, I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off for the=3D20 week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear = cabanes. It =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18 oz (had to use the = postal=3D20 scales!). Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down=3D85) -----Original Message----- From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D -list-server@matronics.com=3D20 [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of = Ray=3D20 Krause Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout... Krause"=3D20 Shad, Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I will=3D20 probably go with the 4130 struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D really=3D20 enjoy the wood working. If the wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20 way. I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference. =3D20 The size of the metal struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D probably get=3D20 pretty close to the right size. Thanks for your help. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- = From: "shad bell"=3D20 To:=3D20 Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout... > --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by: shad=3D20 bell > > > Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than > streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel end=3D20 fittings that would be > required add up fast. As for = the =3D older=3D20 metal designation, just usse 4130, > If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch > by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness. =3D20 also check dillsburg aero works = > for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined > tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look up=3D20 the number for Dillsburg Aero > Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he > does not have a web =3D = site. > > > Shad > > > > > > > > <=3D /PRE>http:// www.mat=3D ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List& lt;=3D B><=3D /PRE>http://forums.matronics.com=3D <=3D /PRE>=3D http://www.matronic s.com/c=3D ontribution<=3D /PRE> href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww= w.mat=3D ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href=3D3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.= com/c=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://w ww .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D href=3D'3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics .c om/contribution 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D ~=B2=03r 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ~=B2=03r ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:13 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's ARF's were around in the 60's and many of you flew them like my brother and myself. Take this go-together with rubber bands Cox PT-19 Trainer. It was a ver y forgiving control line model and when you crashed the rubber bands took the impact and you co uld put it all back together easily if you had enough rubber bands around. I purchase TWO of the remanufactured Cox retro PT-19's around 2002 when the y ran a new production run and still have them in the box for some fine summer day. We would take them off from our picnic table in the back yard pretending to be taking off from an aircraft carrier. When fuel was running low we would fly a high circl e in hopes that we could then glide and make a landing back on the picnic table carrier. Many scale mod el pilots got killed crashing violently into the edge of that big green picnic table at 4101 Hilltop Driv e. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:16 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Red Betsy" the movie I remember when this movie was made and saw the trailer. Does anyone know how to get a copy of this elusive movie? Barry Davis Big Piet N973BP ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:19 PM PST US From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's I bought that very same plane for my boy....it's one of Cox's better plastic planes, it at least flew half way decent. Brian SLC-UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's ARF's were around in the 60's and many of you flew them like my brother and myself. Take this go-together with rubber bands Cox PT-19 Trainer. It was a very forgiving control line model and when you crashed the rubber bands took the impact and you could put it all back together easily if you had enough rubber bands around. I purchase TWO of the remanufactured Cox retro PT-19's around 2002 when they ran a new production run and still have them in the box for some fine summer day. We would take them off from our picnic table in the back yard pretending to be taking off from an aircraft carrier. When fuel was running low we would fly a high circle in hopes that we could then glide and make a landing back on the picnic table carrier. Many scale model pilots got killed crashing violently into the edge of that big green picnic table at 4101 Hilltop Drive. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun From: Ryan Mueller Greg, Can you please contact me re: Markle Mania? I've sent numerous emails with no replies....please get back to me. Thank you! Ryan rmueller23@gmail.com marklepietenpolfund@gmail.com do not archive On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:28 PM, greg menoche wrote: > > Dick, any chance of a rudder. Greg Menoche here in DE working on ribs. It > would be a great feeling to know that members at S&F had a part in the > completion of my one day Piet? Thanks. > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! From: Rick Holland Well put Jack, but I bet that RV-10 is one big distraction. rick On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > Good for you, Billy! > > The older I get the more I realize that nothing much matters except building > and flying Pietenpols. Everything else is just distraction > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy > McCaskill > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! > > > After a year and a half break from building, for various and sundry reasons, > I'm finally back to making sawdust and progress on my Piet project. Now > that my bandsaw is fixed and I've finally gotten some wood to work with, I'm > cutting some 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip so that I can soon start building ribs. I > should also have enough wood left over to buld my horizontal stab, thus > completing the woodwork part of my tail section. It feels really good to > finally be back to working on my Piet! I'll be back out in the garage again > tomorrow cutting more capstrip! > > -------- > Billy McCaskill > Urbana, IL > tailfeathers almost done > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287753#287753 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: getting kids interested in ARF's in the 1960's From: Rick Holland I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have that .049 with an original prop. http://cgi.ebay.com/1950s-VINTAGE-COX-THIMBLE-DROME-P-40-WARHAWK-AIRPLANE_W 0QQitemZ170449166359QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100223?IMSfp=TL100223142004r21 654 rick On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > ARF=92s were around in the 60=92s and many of you flew them like my brot her > and myself. > > Take this go-together with rubber bands Cox PT-19 Trainer. It was a > very forgiving control > line model and when you crashed the rubber bands took the impact and you > could put it > all back together easily if you had enough rubber bands around. > > I purchase TWO of the remanufactured Cox retro PT-19=92s around 2002 when > they ran a new > production run and still have them in the box for some fine summer day. > > We would take them off from our picnic table in the back yard pretending to > be taking off from > an aircraft carrier. When fuel was running low we would fly a high > circle in hopes that we could then > glide and make a landing back on the picnic table carrier. Many scale > model pilots got killed crashing > violently into the edge of that big green picnic table at 4101 Hilltop > Drive. > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:21 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video Here is the movie trailer: Shows what looks like Allen Rudolph's Ford Pie t in the scene and taking off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPrGB0PgkM0 The movie web site says "coming soon to home DVD...." but couldn't find one anywhere for sale on Amazon.com or the like. http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html Probably everything you want to see is in this trailer anyway ! Red Betsy (2003) More at IMDbPro > Plot: Wisconsin, 1941. A group of rural townspeople gather on a farm field, eagerly observing amateur pilot Dale Rounds (Brent Crawford) as he prepare s his airplane, Red Betsy, for its inaugural flight. Dale built Red Betsy w ith the help of his father, Emmet (Leo Burmester) from spare automotive par ts. As the community watches with growing excitement and skepticism, Dale a nd Emmet are determined to show that their contraption can really fly. Waiting expectantly in the sidelines are Dale's girlfriend Winifred (Alison Elliott), and mother Helen (Lois Smith). After a few false starts, the air plane barrels down the makeshift runway and glides effortlessly into the ai r, clearing the treetops. The crowd erupts into enthusiastic cheers and app lause. That evening, Dale and Winifred discuss their plans of getting marri ed and moving to the state capitol in Madison.Winifred believes that Emmet doesn't like her. "He keeps referring to me in the third person ... like I' m not even there," she says. Dale assures Winifred that his father likes he r, however he realizes that Emmet will have a problem with them moving away .. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:11 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cox pt-19, off topic Mike, a guy I work with has one of those old "U" control pt-19's with the .049. We still occasionally get it out when all the airplanes are out of the hanger. It has been wrecked a gozillion times, and is probably 200% it original weight. The engine came off once after a touch and go and headed streight for our supervisors office (still running!) it slid to a stop at the foot of the door. I like RC models better, after 2-3 min of spinning around, watching the light flicker past the windows of the hanger doors I want to loose my lunch. But just like an idiot, I take my turn every time it comes out of the locker. Shad ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video From: Ryan Mueller Mike + Barry, I don't think that site has been updated since '03. It doesn't look like th e movie is available on DVD, nor will be anytime soon; too bad: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/31876919.html Ryan On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > Here is the movie trailer: Shows what looks like Allen Rudolph=92s For d > Piet in the scene and taking off. > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPrGB0PgkM0 > > > The movie web site says =93coming soon to home DVD=85.=94 but couldn =92t find > one anywhere for sale on Amazon.com > > or the like. > > > http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html > > > Probably everything you want to see is in this trailer anyway ! > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:31 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! Jack, Have they come up with a tailwheel RV-10 yet? :) Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On Feb 24, 2010, at 4:21 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > > > Well put Jack, but I bet that RV-10 is one big distraction. > > rick > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Jack Phillips > wrote: >> > >> >> Good for you, Billy! >> >> The older I get the more I realize that nothing much matters except >> building >> and flying Pietenpols. Everything else is just distraction >> >> Jack Phillips >> NX899JP >> Raleigh, NC >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Billy >> McCaskill >> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:55 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! >> >> > >> >> After a year and a half break from building, for various and sundry >> reasons, >> I'm finally back to making sawdust and progress on my Piet >> project. Now >> that my bandsaw is fixed and I've finally gotten some wood to work >> with, I'm >> cutting some 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip so that I can soon start building >> ribs. I >> should also have enough wood left over to buld my horizontal stab, >> thus >> completing the woodwork part of my tail section. It feels really >> good to >> finally be back to working on my Piet! I'll be back out in the >> garage again >> tomorrow cutting more capstrip! >> >> -------- >> Billy McCaskill >> Urbana, IL >> tailfeathers almost done >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287753#287753 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore From: Lloyd Smith All is not lost... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1123029&highlight=pietenpol On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Roman Bukolt wrote: > In 1989 I participated in a Giant Scale RC model event held at EAA. > At that time we were told that that the average age of RC model builders > was over 50 yrs. > That was before ARFs were invented. There was one company in the U.S. who > manufactured an almost ready to fly series of kits. I don't remember the > name but their fuselages were molded plastic and the wings were plastic > covered foam. > On the other hand, I first introduced my 1/4th scale Fleet Biplane in > 1978, the first kit on the market designed to be powered by a chain saw > engine. Over the last 32 yrs. I sold over 5000 of them. Then in 1989 when > electrics were catching on, I introduced the 1/6th scale electric Fleet. > Curiously, today, I'm still getting orders for both sizes. Yes, most of > the builders range in age from 50 to 80. This is with virtually no > advertising. The profits from the kits are what provide the materials for > the Piet I'm building. After all it's basically nothing more then a person > controlled 1ft. = 1ft. scale model airplane. It was interesting that last > year, 2009, with the recession my sales increased 300%. Talking to my > customers, most were laid off and needed a lengthy project to keep them > busy. > I do have a website for the curious, > www.conceptmodelsllc.com > > On Feb 24, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > > That's a pretty neat model, but the availability such inexpensive > alternatives to building this kind of stuff from a kit (or better yet from > plans) eventually really hurts the future of projects like the Pietenpol. > Do remember when you were a kid, the ready to fly plastic control line > airplanes that were available? I never saw one fly very well, or nearly as > well as a kit-built balsa model. When I quit flying radio control stuff 6 > years ago, it was already cheaper to buy a Ready to Fly airplane than it was > to buy the kit, covering, and accessories. I'm thankful now that my dad was > a plans builder of model airplanes, and passed those skills/inclinations on > to me. Hopefully I've passed those skills on to my sons... > > Ben Charvet > > > On 2/23/2010 8:16 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace > Corporation] wrote: > > For $299, model airplane building and flying has made revolutionary > progress since I was a lad. > > No glow plugs, no messy castor oil Glowfuel, quiet, elegant and check > out those flashing LED nav lights ! > > Mike C. > > do not archive > > > *http://www.hobby-lobby.com/b25-overview.htm* > > Scroll down and click on video to play. > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > * > > -- "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:05 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cox control line models and night fires Rick Holland I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have that .049 with an original prop. Isn't' t that cool ! Piece of history. I remember the P-51 they came out with and we wired it up with a 9 volt bat tery and two nav lights at the wing tips from Radio Shack so we could fly i t at night on the school playground. The thing would go round and round o n the pavement until it just had enough speed to lift off with that heavy, heavy battery and then wallow on the verge of a stall in ground effect unti l we accidentally hit the blacktop and tumbled it. The castor oil in the Glowfuel didn't mix well with our duct taping the bat tery on. Later we went back for night flying at the playground without the heavy bat tery and wingtip lights and simply doused the wings and tail with lighter f luid then started the engine and threw a blue tip match at the thing and fl ew it around in one big fireball trailing behind the airplane like in Tora Tora Tora until the thing fell to the pavement in a black smoking, melting mess. Great fun. Now they have very high tech pyrotechnics for R/C models ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gC3ICj4HA do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:13 PM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cox control line models and night fires Mikee, Out here in California, where the hills are coated in golden gunpowder all summer, that kind of stuff will get you arrested, if not shot. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cox control line models and night fires Rick Holland I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have that .049 with an original prop. Isn't' t that cool ! Piece of history. I remember the P-51 they came out with and we wired it up with a 9 volt battery and two nav lights at the wing tips from Radio Shack so we could fly it at night on the school playground. The thing would go round and round on the pavement until it just had enough speed to lift off with that heavy, heavy battery and then wallow on the verge of a stall in ground effect until we accidentally hit the blacktop and tumbled it. The castor oil in the Glowfuel didn't mix well with our duct taping the battery on. Later we went back for night flying at the playground without the heavy battery and wingtip lights and simply doused the wings and tail with lighter fluid then started the engine and threw a blue tip match at the thing and flew it around in one big fireball trailing behind the airplane like in Tora Tora Tora until the thing fell to the pavement in a black smoking, melting mess. Great fun. Now they have very high tech pyrotechnics for R/C models ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gC3ICj4HA do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:23 PM PST US From: Dave and Connie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Not your father's Ambroid and balsa model airplanes anymore Roman Bukolt wrote: > In 1989 I participated in a Giant Scale RC model event held at EAA. > At that time we were told that that the average age of RC model > builders was over 50 yrs. > That was before ARFs were invented. There was one company in the U.S. > who manufactured an almost ready to fly series of kits. I don't > remember the name but their fuselages were molded plastic and the > wings were plastic covered foam. Lanier. The one that I got (used) flew like crap. > On the other hand, I first introduced my 1/4th scale Fleet Biplane in > 1978, the first kit on the market designed to be powered by a chain > saw engine. Over the last 32 yrs. I sold over 5000 of them. Then in > 1989 when electrics were catching on, I introduced the 1/6th scale > electric Fleet. Curiously, today, I'm still getting orders for both > sizes. Your name just rang a bell! I used to belong to a club in Sayre, PA then Nichols, NY about the time you came out with the 1/4 scale kit. Dave Do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cox control line models and night fires From: Rick Holland Yup, I love the smell of castor oil in the morning. do not archive On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > Rick Holland > > I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have > that .049 with an original prop. > > Isnt t that cool ! Piece of history. > > I remember the P-51 they came out with and we wired it up with a 9 volt > battery and two nav lights at the wing tips from Radio Shack so we could fly > it at night on the school playground. The thing would go round and round > on the pavement until it just had enough speed to lift off with that heavy, > heavy battery and then wallow on the verge of a stall in ground effect until > we accidentally hit the blacktop and tumbled it. > > The castor oil in the Glowfuel didnt mix well with our duct taping the > battery on. > > Later we went back for night flying at the playground without the heavy > battery and wingtip lights and simply doused the wings and tail with lighter > fluid then started the engine and threw a blue tip match at the thing and > flew it around in one big fireball trailing behind the airplane like in Tora > Tora Tora until the thing fell to the pavement in a black smoking, melting > mess. Great fun. > > Now they have very high tech pyrotechnics for R/C models ! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gC3ICj4HA > > > do not archive > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:41 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! The RV-10 counts (barely) as building. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! Well put Jack, but I bet that RV-10 is one big distraction. rick On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > Good for you, Billy! > > The older I get the more I realize that nothing much matters except building > and flying Pietenpols. Everything else is just distraction > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in Y From: "Pieti Lowell" Mike. There were about 2 hours of Pietenpol filming that I was involved with before all the editing, From Piet building in the red barn, with a semi- assembled Piet to the filming of Allen's Piet at Oconomowoc air strip If we could locate many of the film clips, That were taken and never put in the film,it would be a great and interesting bit of entertainment. From the soup can on the carb, preheat exhaust pipe to the Directors insisting that the camera equipment be using the safety belt in the rear cockpit and the camera man had to hold on to Allen's plane anyway to keep from falling out.all while Ted flew from the front seat. a great moment in Pietenpol filming. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288054#288054 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:15 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cox control line models and night fires Cox .049's had a huge influence on my early aviation activities. When I made a brake fluid reservoir for my Pietenpol, I found a Cox Thimble-Drome glow fuel can on ebay and used it to make my reservoir. Just sort of a quiet tribute to one of the things that got me interested in flying. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cox control line models and night fires Yup, I love the smell of castor oil in the morning. do not archive On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > Rick Holland > > I had the Cox P-40 Warhawk with the same .049 engine Mike, and I still have > that .049 with an original prop. > > Isn't' t that cool ! Piece of history. > > I remember the P-51 they came out with and we wired it up with a 9 volt > battery and two nav lights at the wing tips from Radio Shack so we could fly > it at night on the school playground. The thing would go round and round > on the pavement until it just had enough speed to lift off with that heavy, > heavy battery and then wallow on the verge of a stall in ground effect until > we accidentally hit the blacktop and tumbled it. > > The castor oil in the Glowfuel didn't mix well with our duct taping the > battery on. > > Later we went back for night flying at the playground without the heavy > battery and wingtip lights and simply doused the wings and tail with lighter > fluid then started the engine and threw a blue tip match at the thing and > flew it around in one big fireball trailing behind the airplane like in Tora > Tora Tora until the thing fell to the pavement in a black smoking, melting > mess. Great fun. > > Now they have very high tech pyrotechnics for R/C models ! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48gC3ICj4HA > > > do not archive > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene right up front in YouTube video From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Guys, This is really ironic. I bought my model A runout from a flea market guy in Boscobel Wi. My wife and I drove up there to pick it up after winning an Ebay bid ("Buy it now" for $100.00) But memories of the regionally evocative film, shot in Delafield and set in World War II era Boscobel, remain vivid for many who wonder how they can see it again. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Mueller Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 3:43 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: "Red Betsy" the movie----Pietenpol scene righ t up front in YouTube video Mike + Barry, I don't think that site has been updated since '03. It doesn't look like the movie is available on DVD, nor will be anytime soon; too bad: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/31876919.html Ryan On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: Here is the movie trailer: Shows what looks like Allen Rudolph=99s Ford Piet in the scene and taking off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPrGB0PgkM0 The movie web site says =9Ccoming soon to home DVD. =9D but couldn=99t find one anywhere for sale on Amazon.com or the like. http://www.redbetsy.com/start.html Probably everything you want to see is in this trailer anyway ! ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Guys, I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring tai lwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list has bee n that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as per the Ae ronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that the woo den rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that Ken Perkin 's Time Machine is set-up just that way. Any new thoughts on this subject? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:26 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: struts I think Vi Kapler (sp?) used to sell aluminum for struts, worth a call. (no I don't know his number) I'm sure aluminum is lighter, and I'm also sure that either metal type strut is ultimately less work than a wooden strut. The only reason to do wood struts I can think of is for "the look". IF that's your thing, go for it, they'll work fine but will probably add a couple weeks to the project, not a big deal. I would personally use a good epoxy such as T-88 for laminating struts because it allows time and slippage while aligning and clamping whereas some others set up pretty quick, and don't like to be slid around much once contact is made. Epoxy is also one of the more forgiving glues if you have some areas that don't contact, it will fill the gap and retain strength. That all being said... I'm sure they all work fine, choose one you like and move forward. Everybody building struts, remember to not put your jury struts in the middle, get them off to one side. It is said this will help keep harmonic resonance vibrations down by being unbalanced. Sounds good, so I did it. Douwe ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:46 PM PST US From: Ben Ramler How are you,I hope all is well at home and work,I'm writing you this with tears in my eyes,as many of you have not responded to my last email and i guess you don't seem to be of help after when i told you about my difficulties here in United Kingdomi write to let you know i misplaced my wallet on my way heading back to my hotel room from the Starbucks coffee shop.Presently i have limited access to internet and would like you to assist me with a loan of 1,540 Pounds to sort-out my hotel bills and to get myself back home because my wallet consist of all my money,phone,diary and my boarding pass(Return Ticket). I have spoken to the embassy here but they are not responding to matters effectively,I'll Refund the money back to you as soon as i'm back home,I would have love you to call me but don't have a phone where i can be reached. let me know if you can be of any help,I will appreciate whatever you can afford to assist me with, do get back to me immediately as you receive this email in order for me to let you know where to send the money. I know this email sounds strange but i did send it Thanks Ben ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:48 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! No, and apparently they have no plans to. I considered modifying mine to be a taildragger, but the plans for the RV-10 are not published. You get a very detailed builder's manual, but no real plans so it would be very difficult to design a modification. With the long nose housing that O-540 Lycoming, ground visibility would be something akin to that of a Pietenpol, and the tail cone would have to be beefed up substantially to handle the tailwheel loads. I decided to leave it alone and build it as a tricycle. It's a pity, because I've never owned an airplane with a nosewheel before. However, when I eventually sell it, there will be a much wider market for it as a tricycle than if it was a taildragger. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Bressler Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! Jack, Have they come up with a tailwheel RV-10 yet? :) Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:33 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder I ran separate tailwheel steering cables for mine, because I didn't like the loading that tailwheel steering would put on that rudder. The difference between the Pietenpol and a Champ or Cub is that on those planes, the rudder horn (where the cables attach) was down at the bottom, so the horn could drive the tailwheel steering. With the Pietenpol, the horn is in the middle of the rudder, but the tailwheel would be driven off the bottom of the rudder (by an additional horn). The light wooden structure would have to handle the torsional load from the tailwheel. It might be strong enough, but you would be guessing what the loads are and how much the rudder can handle. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder Hi Guys, I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring tailwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list has been that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as per the Aeronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that the wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that Ken Perkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way. Any new thoughts on this subject? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:00 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! So true. My good buddy assembled an RV-8, and almost built it as an A for the same reason, but he just couldn't bring himself to do it. :) I check the VAF site daily just to see what Doug Reeves digs up. The RV guys really put together some great trip reports. Love 'em or hate 'em, the RV-10 is a very useful airplane. We've considered an RV-12 project as an "investment", but the economy isn't very convincing right now. Do not archive. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:38 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrote: > > > > No, and apparently they have no plans to. I considered modifying > mine to be > a taildragger, but the plans for the RV-10 are not published. You > get a > very detailed builder's manual, but no real plans so it would be very > difficult to design a modification. > > With the long nose housing that O-540 Lycoming, ground visibility > would be > something akin to that of a Pietenpol, and the tail cone would have > to be > beefed up substantially to handle the tailwheel loads. I decided to > leave > it alone and build it as a tricycle. It's a pity, because I've > never owned > an airplane with a nosewheel before. However, when I eventually > sell it, > there will be a much wider market for it as a tricycle than if it > was a > taildragger. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne > Bressler > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:44 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Finally making sawdust and progress! > > > > Jack, > > Have they come up with a tailwheel RV-10 yet? :) > > Wayne Bressler Jr. > Taildraggers, Inc. > taildraggersinc.com > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:01 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder On my plane, the tailwheel steering cables go to a horn on the bottom of th e rudder. So far - no problem . But I will keep watching it. Gardiner Mason =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jack Phillips =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, Februar y 24, 2010 9:42:57 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- h ooked to rudder=0A=0A =0AI ran separate tailwheel steering cables=0Afor min e, because I didn=99t like the loading that tailwheel steering would =0Aput on that rudder. The difference between the Pietenpol and a Champ or =0ACub is that on those planes, the rudder horn (where the cables attach) w as down=0Aat the bottom, so the horn could drive the tailwheel steering. W ith the=0APietenpol, the horn is in the middle of the rudder, but the tailw heel would be=0Adriven off the bottom of the rudder (by an additional horn) . The light=0Awooden structure would have to handle the torsional load fro m the tailwheel. =0AIt might be strong enough, but you would be guessing wh at the loads are and how=0Amuch the rudder can handle.=0A =0AJack Phillips =0ANX899JP=0ARaleigh, NC=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFr om:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list- server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com=0ASent: Wednesday, F ebruary 24, 2010=0A7:15 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Pi etenpol-List: Steerable=0Atailwheel- hooked to rudder=0A =0AHi Guys,=0A =0A I have been wrestling with the=0Aengineering of making my free-castoring ta ilwheel into a steerable type. The=0Aconventional wisdom on this list has b een that one should not connect the=0Atailwheel with the rudder, as per the Aeronca Champ, and many others of that=0Aera, due to the fact (?) that the wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle=0Athe loads. I see that Ken P erkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way. =0A =0AAny new thoughts on th is subject?=0A =0ADan Helsper=0APoplar Grove, IL.=0A =0A =0A =0Ahttp://ww w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Aht ======= ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:45 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Yes Mike I am building another Piet. It started last year with building a set of ribs. I got them home and decided to build a Harley Davidson Airplane. Have you seen some of the old time planes with a two cyl Harley engine? Check out the cover of some of the Flying Glider Manuals. I figure the Harley might be good with that engine and that size fuselage. And also yes, I still have the A 65 Piet, I can't quite bring myself to sell it. I flew it on Tuesday. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:10 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Dick you're building a THIRD Pietenpol by chance ? You mention building a fuselage for you at SNF. Maybe that is just a good general woodworking project for the wood tent. If not, go for it ! Do you still have your 65 hp Continental Pietenpol ? Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:39 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same information apply to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout plans, I could not say, with real authority, that a =BE=94 spar is OK for the Sky Scout; however, it is my understanding that the two airplanes are very similar, maybe even the same wing. Lots of conversations on this list point out that vintage aircraft such as the T-craft or Piper Cub, have used an assortment of spar materials, =BE=94 thick. It is my recollection that the same conversation led to the agreement that, after routing, you basically end up with a =BE=94 spar, anyhow. Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have mis-directed Ray, please jump in! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Gary, Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started with these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper! Thanks for the info on the spars. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: gboothe5@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Negative. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _____ From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Gary, Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar material, would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans? Are you building a Sky Scout? Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: gboothe5@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout... Ray, FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars. Gary Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _____ From: "Ray Krause" Shad, Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I will=3D20 probably go with the 4130 struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D really=3D20 enjoy the wood working. If the wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20 way. I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference. =3D20 The size of the metal struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D probably get=3D20 pretty close to the right size. Thanks for your help. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- = From: "shad bell"=3D20 To:=3D20 Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout... > --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by: shad=3D20 bell > > > Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than > streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel end=3D20 fittings that would be > required add up fast. As for = the =3D older=3D20 metal designation, just usse 4130, > If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch > by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness. =3D20 also check dillsburg aero works = > for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined > tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look up=3D20 the number for Dillsburg Aero > Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he > does not have a web =3D = site. > > > Shad > > > > > > > > <=3D /PRE> http:// www.mat=3D ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List & lt;=3D B><=3D /PRE> http://forums.matronics.com=3D <=3D /PRE> =3D http://www.matronic s.com/c=3D ontribution <=3D /PRE> href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww= w.mat=3D ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href=3D3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.= com/c=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D href=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics .c 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D ~=B2=03r 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www .matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/co ntribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ~=B2 _____ r ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:31 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Thanks, Gary. The wing is exactly the same, except 27" shorter. Routing would be a lot of work, but doable. The ribs I got with the other wood are all built and seem to be made for the 1" spar. I will have to make a decision on which way to go. I have been putting in hard points in the fuselage for the seat and shoulder safety belts; thankfully I only need one set! I put the hard pints one station behind the seat, so I will have to find the right seat belts to fit. ACS has some that might work, when I get that far. Got the turtle deck mostly done today, that was fun. Thanks for the help. Ray Krause P.S. Guess I will have to take the Waiex to the Peit fly in. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:59 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same information apply to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout plans, I could not say, with real authority, that a =BE" spar is OK for the Sky Scout; however, it is my understanding that the two airplanes are very similar, maybe even the same wing. Lots of conversations on this list point out that vintage aircraft such as the T-craft or Piper Cub, have used an assortment of spar materials, =BE" thick. It is my recollection that the same conversation led to the agreement that, after routing, you basically end up with a =BE" spar, anyhow. Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have mis-directed Ray, please jump in! Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Gary, Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started with these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper! Thanks for the info on the spars. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: gboothe5@comcast.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Negative. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: "Ray Krause" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:54 -0800 To: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Gary, Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar material, would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans? Are you building a Sky Scout? Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: gboothe5@comcast.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com= Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout... Ray, FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars. Gary Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Thanks, Gary. I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain of=3D20 salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D abilities! The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects is=3D20 well taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the costs of =3D the=3D20 metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood = struts! As far as the =3D spars=3D20 go, they were included in the wood I got = with the Sky Scout package; =3D they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" = thickness, they are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces = of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the ribs). = The Hughes Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had beautiful parallel grain fir that would have made beautiful =3D spars,=3D20 = cheap, too. Next time I am in Chico, I will check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20 The ash seems to be really dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I =3D will=3D20 try to look it up. Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have referenced=3D20 Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it = makes my eyes and =3D brain=3D20 hurt! Ray ----- Original Message ----- From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics= .com=3D =3D20 Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout... Ray, Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and = educated=3D85.attributes to which I make =3D no personal=3D20 claim. In all honesty, I perused = the West Coast Piet web site to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris Tracy = doesn=3D92t have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D After=3D20 looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built and is =3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable. Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of =3D hickory = and=3D20 the decision was that easy. For size, I just used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20 steel. Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either = Cliff Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent and = educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20 various woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email, but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home. My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the = shape and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely be similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone does! Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the = grain and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20 link. Also, it = looks really cool! My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in = Auburn, Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own wholesale purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20 needed. He even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped = build some wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to look = for. Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll blame Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos! Gary=3D20 Boothe Cool,=3D20 CA Pietenpol WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear 18=3D20 ribs done From:=3D20 owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=3D20 [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of = =3D Ray=3D20 Krause Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM To: =3D pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout... Gary, If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center) from metal, they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D the=3D20 ends. How did you decide on the = thickness and shape for the struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say = ash? Did you laminate because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D source for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico, I think. I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board foot. Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts) also hickory? = What=3D20 shape? Thanks, Ray=3D20 Krause. P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very expensive, about $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D .7593=3D20 lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I am not sure of its =3D quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches = the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and 2" X 1"). ----- =3D Original=3D20 Message ----- From: Gary=3D20 Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20 Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Ray, I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off for the=3D20 week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear = cabanes. It =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18 oz (had to use the = postal=3D20 scales!). Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down=3D85) -----Original Message----- From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D -list-server@matronics.com=3D20 [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of = Ray=3D20 Krause Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM To:=3D20 pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout... Krause"=3D20 Shad, Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I will=3D20 probably go with the 4130 struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D really=3D20 enjoy the wood working. If the wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20 way. I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference. =3D20 The size of the metal struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D probably get=3D20 pretty close to the right size. Thanks for your help. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- = From: "shad bell"=3D20 To:=3D20 Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout... > --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by: shad=3D20 bell > > > Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than > streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel end=3D20 fittings that would be > required add up fast. As for = the =3D older=3D20 metal designation, just usse 4130, > If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch > by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness. =3D20 also check dillsburg aero works = > for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined > tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look up=3D20 the number for Dillsburg Aero > Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he > does not have a web =3D = site. > > > Shad > > > > > > > > <=3D/PRE>http://=www.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List&=l t;=3DB><=3D/PRE>http://forums.matronics.com=3D<=3D/PRE>=3Dhttp: //www.matronic=s.com/c=3Dontribution<=3D/PRE> href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww= w.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref=3D3D"http://forums.ma tronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com= href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.= com/c=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3 D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www=.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-L ist3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D= 3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref=3D'3D"http://forums.matronics.c om"'>http://forums.matronics.com3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3 D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3 D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3Dhref= 3D'3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c=om /contribution3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D= 3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3 D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3 D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D ~=B2=03r 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3Dhref='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhref='3D"http://forums.m atronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dhref='3D"http://www.matr onics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ~=B2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:44 PM PST US From: VAHOWDY@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder On the Scout I'm building I ran a second set of cables for the tail wheel. One thing I learned is that the control horn should have about the same cable to cable distance as the rudder horn. Longer makes the wheel travel less than the rudder and shorter make the wheel travel further. The first one I made was short, it made the cable bend around the wheel. Howdy ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:50 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Areo Thanks, Shad. I will do that. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dillsburg Areo Ray, and others, The PH number for Dillsburg Aeroworks is 717-432-4589, they have the best price on pretty much any size tubing you need. Mr Vogalsong (The owner) is an old timer who knows his stuff (From what I gather) has built 1 or 2 airplanes, bicycles etc etc. Give him a call and have him send you a price sheet on his inventory. He caries some AN hardware, plumbing fittings and other odds and ends. FYI, to get his best prices you will want to buy full lengths of tubing, 16-18ft ea. He will cut to 8ft so it can be shipped UPS, for no charge. Give him a call. Shad ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:55 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Thanks, Santiago. Guess I have a lot of things to consider, now. Somehow, I am not convinced that round struts would be any worse than the streamlined struts. The Piets are pretty draggy! Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout... Hi Ray, I think you can use 4130 steel, 1025 steel, aluminum or wood, round or streamlined struts, all that has been used successfully. My round, 1025 steel struts weigh about 5 pounds each. Saludos Santiago ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina. http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:09 PM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Larry Williams, Aluminum struts Michael, Thanks for the photo. These struts look great. The metal work looks pretty easy, too. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Larry Williams, Aluminum struts As always, Chris Tracy's Westcoastpiet.com 'pictures' web site comes in with excellent value. For more photos go there, under Larry Williams. ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Red Betsy - on to Boscobel From: Gerry Holland Dan Hi from UK. I digress...... I spotted the word Boscobel in your e-mail and instantly went back to the early 60=B9s when I joined the Royal Air Force. Initial Training started at RAF Cosford in the West Midlands with the Station Emblem referred to as the Boscobel Oak. Nearby was the Village of Boscobel and in true military style we all marche d to see what was purported to be the Royal Oak in the Village. I=B9m guessing Boscobel, WI must have some roots back to that Shropshire Village. King Charles hid in the Oak and a nearby Manor House from the pursuing Troops of Oliver Cromwell. Those were the days.....politics had a bit of a bite and you could lose your head! Some information: http://www.timetravel-britain.com/articles/houses/boscobel.shtml Regards Gerry do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.