Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Re: Coverall Comps (mr-fix-all)
2. 04:55 AM - Re: dimple tape (Kip and Beth Gardner)
3. 05:35 AM - Re: Wood (Pastor Mike Townsley)
4. 05:54 AM - Re: dimple tape (skellytown flyer)
5. 07:01 AM - Center Strut Fittings (Jack)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: Center Strut Fittings (Gary Boothe)
7. 07:47 AM - Re: Re: Coverall Comps (Gene Rambo)
8. 07:50 AM - wing placement (Gene Rambo)
9. 09:01 AM - Re: Re: dimple tape (Jeff Boatright)
10. 09:08 AM - Re: Construction Photos (Catdesigns)
11. 09:09 AM - "A Masterpiece Pietenpol" (ldmill)
12. 09:39 AM - Re: wing placement (Richard Schreiber)
13. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Coverall Comps (Tim Willis)
14. 10:11 AM - Re: wing placement (Jack Phillips)
15. 10:32 AM - Re: wing placement (Tim Willis)
16. 10:38 AM - Re: wing placement (Ben Charvet)
17. 01:00 PM - Re: wing placement (Gene Rambo)
18. 01:01 PM - Re: wing placement (Gene Rambo)
19. 02:12 PM - Re: wing placement (Peter W Johnson)
20. 02:26 PM - Re: wing placement (Jack Phillips)
21. 03:38 PM - Re: wing placement (Ben Charvet)
22. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Coverall Comps (Dan Yocum)
23. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: dimple tape (airlion)
24. 05:23 PM - high sink rate power off (shad bell)
25. 06:14 PM - Re: high sink rate power off (airlion)
26. 06:56 PM - coverall project (Douwe Blumberg)
27. 06:56 PM - Re: wing placement (Gene Rambo)
28. 07:32 PM - dimple tape (Oscar Zuniga)
29. 07:41 PM - Re: First Major Milestone (Ray Krause)
30. 07:59 PM - Re: coverall project (Jeff Boatright)
31. 08:01 PM - Re: First Major Milestone (Gary Boothe)
32. 08:15 PM - Re: coverall project (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
33. 08:23 PM - Re: "A Masterpiece Pietenpol" (Dick N)
34. 08:56 PM - Re: First Major Milestone (K5YAC)
35. 11:56 PM - Re: coverall project (Tim Willis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Coverall Comps |
4th and final unless someone has other suggestions.
Jake
--------
"Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't matter, and
those that matter don't mind" Dr. Seuss
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289471#289471
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet4_205.pdf
Message 2
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Gardinier & Ben,
I envy you guys - hope it continues to go well. Ben - $3 trim
system? Cheapskates everywhere (i. e. ME) want to know! Details?
Kip Gardner
On Mar 6, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Ben Charvet wrote:
> <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
>
> I too am flying off my hours. Today was my first test of the $3
> elevator trim system I installed yesterday. Prior to this I was
> holding a lot of back pressure for level flight. I also added 1/2
> inch of offset to the rudder. Now I can fly hands off for a few
> seconds while fumbling around changing frequencies, etc. Today was
> pancake EAA pancake breakfast day for my chapter. When it came
> time to land the wind was blowing 8 kts right down the paved
> runway. I basically flew it right down to the pavement at 65 mph
> and about 1000 rpm. In spite of the large audience by carrying a
> little power I was able to do a nice wheel landing that was heard
> more than felt, pulled the throttle, pushed the stick forward, and
> still only rolled out about 150 ft. My flight advisor suggested
> wheel landings, and I think they are best done with a little power on.
>
> Only 19 hours to go!
>
> Ben Charvet
> Mims Fl
>
> On 3/6/2010 7:04 PM, airlion wrote:
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: airlion<airlion@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> I am flying my hours off and after 5 hours I am really impressed
>> on how my ship handles. It really likes 85 mph at 2500rpm. and
>> will easily go to 95 RPM at 2900 rpm. On final approach to
>> landing I am trying to get used the sink rate for landing. I like
>> to land power off like I was taught., but i FIND THAT IS NOT
>> POSSIBLE. I have been reading about dimple tape as a somewhat
>> solution. Have any of you experienced pietenpollers tried this and
>> does it work? Thanks guys, Gardiner Mason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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Thanks Cliff, that is what I would of guessed.
Mike Townsley
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> The longerons and wing rib caps are carefully chosen
> trim material from lumber yards. I was extremely
> picky so I made regular rounds to five yards. The
> spar material is very unusual and only comes in 5"
> and 6" widths. I found it in a higher end place that
> carries better materials usually.
>
> The longerons are 1 1/16" square stuff that is used as
> a backing when building up fancy, complicated
> moldings.
>
> Clif
>
>
>> Cliff,
>> Where did you go to find that wood?
>> Thanks
>> Mike Townsley
>>
>
>
Message 4
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Gardiner I sure enjoy reading about your test flights as it keeps my interest in
finishing up. What do you think the main difficulty is with power off landings-lack
of directional control? I was wondering if you have done any gap seals
on your rudder or elevators. thanks for the updates,and I just yesterday got
back to fabricating my cowling around the Corvair. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289484#289484
Message 5
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| Subject: | Center Strut Fittings |
Good morning,
Should I cut them per plans or lengthen a bit?
Thanks!
Jack
DSM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Center Strut Fittings |
Jack,
Mike Cuy suggested cutting all fittings longer. Mine are =BD=94 longer.
It
really helps in getting the cables hooked up.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:58 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center Strut Fittings
Good morning,
Should I cut them per plans or lengthen a bit?
Thanks!
Jack
DSM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Coverall Comps |
Mobile Oil is still in business, so you should be careful how you use
their logo, they may take offense!
As for the overalls, I would personally prefer that the logo look more
like something that might have been worn by a worker at a factory,
rather than a tribute to Mr. Peitenpol.
Just my 2 cents,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: mr-fix-all<mailto:jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coverall Comps
<jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com<mailto:jb.spiegel@us.schneider-elec
tric.com>>
4th and final unless someone has other suggestions.
Jake
--------
"Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't
matter, and those that matter don't mind" Dr. Seuss
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289471#289471<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289471#289471>
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet4_205.pdf<http://forums.matronics.
com//files/piet4_205.pdf>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 8
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For those of you already flying, how many of you have had to move your
wing fore/aft after the first flights? If not, what extra precautions
did you take to make sure that you had the strut and roll wire holes in
the correct locations?
I am making sheet metal, and I am wondering what I can do to make sure
that I get the locations correct the first time and not have to remake
sheet metal if I have to move the wing.
Gene
Message 9
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Gardiner,
Power-off landings can be made, but they did take a lot of practice
(for me, anyway). I fly my pattern at 60 mph through final, then back
to 55 over the fence, and it all seems to work out. This was true
even before adding the VGs. However, when I first started flying the
Piet, I always used a little power. The power-off sink rate can get
pretty high at these speeds, about 800 fpm according to our VSI.
HTH,
Jeff
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Construction Photos |
Kevin
Nice work Kevin. Sorry you could not get in touch with me.
I tried to respond to you emails about sending pictures for the website but evidently
you never got the replies. I send replies sent to the website from my
Catdesigns(at)att(dot)net email address so I can avoid getting a lot of Spam email
downloaded to my computer. Maybe your security setting didn't let my replies
through or you didn't recognize the response. Sorry for the confusion. Anyway,
I would be happy add you photos to the Westcoastpiet website if you still
want to send them. You can email them to me at the above address or you can
send them on CD or DVD. Email is fine, if you can handle the large files.
Chris
--------
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289510#289510
Message 11
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| Subject: | "A Masterpiece Pietenpol" |
It's a damp and foggy morning here in the lazy snowbound countryside of Iowa, a
light quiet mist drizzling down. The fog is so thick that it muffles out sounds,
you cant see the old Lincoln highway a stones throw north. A morning meant
for memories and nostalgia, the tinney sounds of "Sentimental Journey" quietly
coming from some ratted out speakers at the back of the shop. The grey and
very old shorthair is just lying on her rug in front of the heater, grunting and
staring at me. Yes, it is time to break out the much dog-eared Feb 2008 Sport
Aviation rag and review the article on Dick Ns radial Piet. What a great way
to end the week.
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
Pietenpol next up
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289512#289512
Message 12
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Good question Gene. I am at the same point and have the same concerns.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
Sent: 3/7/2010 9:54:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
For those of you already flying, how many of you have had to move your wing fore/aft
after the first flights? If not, what extra precautions did you take to
make sure that you had the strut and roll wire holes in the correct locations?
I am making sheet metal, and I am wondering what I can do to make sure that I get
the locations correct the first time and not have to remake sheet metal if
I have to move the wing.
Gene
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Coverall Comps |
I like your original (#2) better than #3 or #4. However, they all seem "busy"--
too many words.
I'd like to see a version with the wings and just "Air Camper" in the style of
#2, and with "Air Camper" smaller-- nearly fitting within the wings. Maybe "Air
Camper" could fit into an oval, perhaps with "Air" over "Camper"? It is hard
to tell how it would look until it is close to done.
Also, the yellow sort of fades into the background. Red would offer more vibrant
color and contrasting shade.
This is just me.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: mr-fix-all <jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com>
>Sent: Mar 6, 2010 9:25 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coverall Comps
>
>
>Here is my 3rd spin
>
>Jake
>
>--------
>"Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't matter, and
those that matter don't mind" Dr. Seuss
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289447#289447
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet3_912.pdf
>
>
Message 14
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Gene,
I moved my wing back a total of 4". I had already planned to move it back
2-1/2" but the final weight and balance indicated another 1-1/2" was
necessary. When I did the sheet metal around the cabanes I left some slop
in the holes to allow some movement. It doesn't take much. One inch of
movement at the top of the cabanes only requires about 1/16" at the bottom.
My advice would be to move the cabanes as far aft as you think you would
need, then cut the hole about 1/8" bigger than that. You can keep it pretty
tight to the strut. Cutting it after the fact is not that hard (I had to do
a little cutting) but putting the metal back if you cut the hole too big is
farily difficult.
One word of caution - Make the holes no bigger than than need to be (with
that 1/8" gap mentioned above). Apart from looking better with the cowling
fitting fairly tightly around the struts, the bigger the hole the more rain
water you will get in. Some water will get in anyway, because the holes
have to be big enough to allow access to the bolts holding the strut to the
fuselage.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
For those of you already flying, how many of you have had to move your wing
fore/aft after the first flights? If not, what extra precautions did you
take to make sure that you had the strut and roll wire holes in the correct
locations?
I am making sheet metal, and I am wondering what I can do to make sure that
I get the locations correct the first time and not have to remake sheet
metal if I have to move the wing.
Gene
Message 15
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Jack,
Those are tight fits. Good work.
Until someone has tried to fit the sheet metal as closely as you have, they just
have no idea how detailed it can be.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: Mar 7, 2010 12:06 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
Gene,
I moved my wing back a total of 4. I had already planned to move it back 2-1/2
but the final weight and balance indicated another 1-1/2 was necessary. When
I did the sheet metal around the cabanes I left some slop in the holes to allow
some movement. It doesnt take much. One inch of movement at the top of the
cabanes only requires about 1/16 at the bottom.
My advice would be to move the cabanes as far aft as you think you would need,
then cut the hole about 1/8 bigger than that. You can keep it pretty tight to
the strut. Cutting it after the fact is not that hard (I had to do a little
cutting) but putting the metal back if you cut the hole too big is farily difficult.
One word of caution Make the holes no bigger than than need to be (with that 1/8
gap mentioned above). Apart from looking better with the cowling fitting fairly
tightly around the struts, the bigger the hole the more rain water you will
get in. Some water will get in anyway, because the holes have to be big enough
to allow access to the bolts holding the strut to the fuselage.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
For those of you already flying, how many of you have had to move your wing fore/aft
after the first flights? If not, what extra precautions did you take to
make sure that you had the strut and roll wire holes in the correct locations?
I am making sheet metal, and I am wondering what I can do to make sure that I get
the locations correct the first time and not have to remake sheet metal if
I have to move the wing.
Gene <span style=" -<span style=" Subscription,<span style=" more:http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<span style=" font-size:10.0pt;color:black;="================<span style=; bsp: " Forums!http://forums.matronics.com<span style=" font-size:10.0pt;color:black;="================<span style=; bsp: " support!http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: wing placement |
My experience was similar to Jack's. Another thing to consider is when
you move the wing back you need to enlarge the holes the aileron cables
go through, both in the sheet metal and underneath. Also it came close
to interfering with my windshields that were already mounted. In spite
of lengthening my motor mounts I ended up moving the wing back 4
inches. I had to trim the sheet metal around the cabanes after the
wing was already installed., and had to lengthen two of the cross brace
wires for the cabanes also. I waited until the preliminary weight and
balance before making the cross cables for the lift struts, thankfully.
Even after my first few flights, I can see how this project is far from
finished, but as Mike Cuy said, it has just entered a new dimension.
Ben Charvet
6 hours on the Hobbs
On 3/7/2010 1:06 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:
>
> Gene,
>
> I moved my wing back a total of 4". I had already planned to move it
> back 2-1/2" but the final weight and balance indicated another 1-1/2"
> was necessary. When I did the sheet metal around the cabanes I left
> some slop in the holes to allow some movement. It doesn't take much.
> One inch of movement at the top of the cabanes only requires about
> 1/16" at the bottom.
>
> My advice would be to move the cabanes as far aft as you think you
> would need, then cut the hole about 1/8" bigger than that. You can
> keep it pretty tight to the strut. Cutting it after the fact is not
> that hard (I had to do a little cutting) but putting the metal back if
> you cut the hole too big is farily difficult.
>
> One word of caution -- Make the holes no bigger than than need to be
> (with that 1/8" gap mentioned above). Apart from looking better with
> the cowling fitting fairly tightly around the struts, the bigger the
> hole the
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: wing placement |
I'm sorry guys, but you are not answering the question. Jack, you moved
the wing back 4" WHEN? AFTER you flew it? Did you do a final weight and
balance before you made your sheet metal? If not, when did you do a
weight and balance? several times at different points in construction??
I have no idea how far back I "think I need" to move the cabanes, where
does that dimension come from? The entire question is directed at not
making the holes any bigger than they have to be, and NOT, hopefully,
trimming them after first flight, which requires repainting, etc at the
least, and remaking the metal at the worst.
Please help,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips<mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
Gene,
I moved my wing back a total of 4". I had already planned to move it
back 2-1/2" but the final weight and balance indicated another 1-1/2"
was necessary. When I did the sheet metal around the cabanes I left
some slop in the holes to allow some movement. It doesn't take much.
One inch of movement at the top of the cabanes only requires about 1/16"
at the bottom.
My advice would be to move the cabanes as far aft as you think you
would need, then cut the hole about 1/8" bigger than that. You can keep
it pretty tight to the strut. Cutting it after the fact is not that
hard (I had to do a little cutting) but putting the metal back if you
cut the hole too big is farily difficult.
One word of caution - Make the holes no bigger than than need to be
(with that 1/8" gap mentioned above). Apart from looking better with
the cowling fitting fairly tightly around the struts, the bigger the
hole the more rain water you will get in. Some water will get in
anyway, because the holes have to be big enough to allow access to the
bolts holding the strut to the fuselage.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:47 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
For those of you already flying, how many of you have had to move your
wing fore/aft after the first flights? If not, what extra precautions
did you take to make sure that you had the strut and roll wire holes in
the correct locations?
I am making sheet metal, and I am wondering what I can do to make sure
that I get the locations correct the first time and not have to remake
sheet metal if I have to move the wing.
Gene
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: wing placement |
Ben, I did not think of listing the aileron cables because I am running
my cables like the original, out the sides and up the struts, not
criss-crossing and going inside the wing.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Charvet<mailto:bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
My experience was similar to Jack's. Another thing to consider is
when you move the wing back you need to enlarge the holes the aileron
cables go through, both in the sheet metal and underneath. Also it came
close to interfering with my windshields that were already mounted. In
spite of lengthening my motor mounts I ended up moving the wing back 4
inches. I had to trim the sheet metal around the cabanes after the
wing was already installed., and had to lengthen two of the cross brace
wires for the cabanes also. I waited until the preliminary weight and
balance before making the cross cables for the lift struts, thankfully.
Even after my first few flights, I can see how this project is far from
finished, but as Mike Cuy said, it has just entered a new dimension.
Ben Charvet
6 hours on the Hobbs
On 3/7/2010 1:06 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:
Gene,
I moved my wing back a total of 4". I had already planned to move
it back 2-1/2" but the final weight and balance indicated another 1-1/2"
was necessary. When I did the sheet metal around the cabanes I left
some slop in the holes to allow some movement. It doesn't take much.
One inch of movement at the top of the cabanes only requires about 1/16"
at the bottom.
My advice would be to move the cabanes as far aft as you think you
would need, then cut the hole about 1/8" bigger than that. You can keep
it pretty tight to the strut. Cutting it after the fact is not that
hard (I had to do a little cutting) but putting the metal back if you
cut the hole too big is farily difficult.
One word of caution - Make the holes no bigger than than need to be
(with that 1/8" gap mentioned above). Apart from looking better with
the cowling fitting fairly tightly around the struts, the bigger the
hole the
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 19
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Gene,
I would recommend a quick W&B check before you do the sheet metal around the
cockpits. I didn't and ended up moving the wing backwards to get the W&B
correct. It left big holes for the aileron control cables and added more
screw holes for the windscreen.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Monday, 8 March 2010 2:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
For those of you already flying, how many of you have had to move your wing
fore/aft after the first flights? If not, what extra precautions did you
take to make sure that you had the strut and roll wire holes in the correct
locations?
I am making sheet metal, and I am wondering what I can do to make sure that
I get the locations correct the first time and not have to remake sheet
metal if I have to move the wing.
Gene
Message 20
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Sorry Gene, I misunderstood your question.
I did a preliminary weight and balance on an Excel spreadsheet (attached,
see "Pietenpol Weight Balance") when I first began assembling the airplane,
making my best guesses (which turned out to be not very accurate) of the
weight of fabric and paint and any other components not yet installed. As I
added components I measured the arm and the weight of eac component and
added them to the spreadsheet. This weighing was done with bathroom scales.
I used this spreadsheet to estimate how far back my wing needed to be. Then
when I moved the ariplane to the airport and assembled it for flight I
weighed it again with certified aircraft scales and found that I needed to
move the wing back another inch to keep the CG forward of 35% of the chord
when flying solo with a full fuel tank. I have also attached that
spreadsheet ("Pietenpol Actual Weight Balance 2")
I went back and reviewed my numbers just now. Initially I had the wing
2.68" aft of vertical. After doing the actual weight and balance I moved it
back to 3.75" aft of vertical, not 4". However, 4" would probably have been
better since the CG is at 35% of the chord as it is. It IS a bit sensitive
in pitch but other than that I've seen no problems with the CG that far aft.
I have not tried to spin the airplane and don't intend to.
As I recall I did have to trim the holes a bit, but just did it with a
Dremel tool and touched up the edges with paint.
Feel free to use the spreadsheets and plug in the numbers for your weights
and moment-arms. I chose to use the firewall as the datum, so anything
forward of the firewall must have a negative value for its arm. Any items I
have listed that you don't have, such as radios or transponders, just plug
in their weight as "0.00".
What can be learned from doing such a preliminary weight and balance? Well,
I learned that fabric and paint (particularly polyurethane paint) weighs A
LOT more than I thought. I'll bet I've got 60 lbs of paint on that
airplane.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
I'm sorry guys, but you are not answering the question. Jack, you moved the
wing back 4" WHEN? AFTER you flew it? Did you do a final weight and balance
before you made your sheet metal? If not, when did you do a weight and
balance? several times at different points in construction??
I have no idea how far back I "think I need" to move the cabanes, where does
that dimension come from? The entire question is directed at not making the
holes any bigger than they have to be, and NOT, hopefully, trimming them
after first flight, which requires repainting, etc at the least, and
remaking the metal at the worst.
Please help,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
Gene,
I moved my wing back a total of 4". I had already planned to move it back
2-1/2" but the final weight and balance indicated another 1-1/2" was
necessary. When I did the sheet metal around the cabanes I left some slop
in the holes to allow some movement. It doesn't take much. One inch of
movement at the top of the cabanes only requires about 1/16" at the bottom.
My advice would be to move the cabanes as far aft as you think you would
need, then cut the hole about 1/8" bigger than that. You can keep it pretty
tight to the strut. Cutting it after the fact is not that hard (I had to do
a little cutting) but putting the metal back if you cut the hole too big is
farily difficult.
One word of caution - Make the holes no bigger than than need to be (with
that 1/8" gap mentioned above). Apart from looking better with the cowling
fitting fairly tightly around the struts, the bigger the hole the more rain
water you will get in. Some water will get in anyway, because the holes
have to be big enough to allow access to the bolts holding the strut to the
fuselage.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
For those of you already flying, how many of you have had to move your wing
fore/aft after the first flights? If not, what extra precautions did you
take to make sure that you had the strut and roll wire holes in the correct
locations?
I am making sheet metal, and I am wondering what I can do to make sure that
I get the locations correct the first time and not have to remake sheet
metal if I have to move the wing.
Gene
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: wing placement |
I can't imagine why you would move the wing fore or aft after the first
flight. The reason to move it at all is to get your weight and balance
to work out, and that is definitely done before the first flight.
Unfortunately you can't do your weight and balance until everything is
covered, painted and assembled, so as Jack suggested allow enough room
to do some adjusting if needed then. I did some trimming of my sheet
metal after it was painted with aviation snips and touched up the edges
with no problem
Ben
On 3/7/2010 3:56 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> I'm sorry guys, but you are not answering the question. Jack, you
> moved the wing back 4" WHEN? AFTER you flew it? Did you do a final
> weight and balance before you made your sheet metal? If not, when did
> you do a weight and balance? several times at different points in
> construction??
> I have no idea how far back I "think I need" to move the cabanes,
> where does that dimension come from? The entire question is directed
> at not making the holes any bigger than they have to be, and NOT,
> hopefully, trimming them after first flight, which requires
> repainting, etc at the least, and remaking the metal at the worst.
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Coverall Comps |
Good point.
Whilst meandering around the inter-tubes, I found the following aviation
fuel related logos that are generally period specific. Take a look:
http://www.gaspumps.info/gallery/v/globes/Jenney/Jenney+Aero+Solvenized+1935-40+Gill.jpg.html?g2_enterAlbum=0
http://www.gaspumps.info/gallery/v/globes/Kendall/Kendall+Gasoline+1926+to+1935+15in+metal.jpg.html?g2_enterAlbum=0
http://www.gaspumps.info/gallery/v/globes/Tidewater+Associated/Flying+A+Gasoline+1946+to+1956+Gill.jpg.html?g2_enterAlbum=0
http://www.gaspumps.info/gallery/v/globes/album05/Smith_o_lene_Aviation_1940_s.jpg.html
http://www.gaspumps.info/gallery/v/globes/Phillips+66/Phillips+77+Aviation+1937+to+1939+glass.JPG.html
(though Jack would like that one too much...)
http://www.gaspumps.info/gallery/v/globes/Beacon/Beacon+Aviation+1930s+glass.jpg.html
http://www.gaspumps.info/gallery/v/globes/Kanotex/Kanotex+Aviation+1930+to+1939+ripple.jpg.html
Cheers,
Dan
On 03/07/2010 09:43 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> Mobile Oil is still in business, so you should be careful how you use
> their logo, they may take offense!
> As for the overalls, I would personally prefer that the logo look more
> like something that might have been worn by a worker at a factory,
> rather than a tribute to Mr. Peitenpol.
> Just my 2 cents,
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* mr-fix-all <mailto:jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:47 AM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Re: Coverall Comps
>
> <jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com
> <mailto:jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com>>
>
> 4th and final unless someone has other suggestions.
>
> Jake
>
> --------
> "Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't
> matter, and those that matter don't mind" Dr. Seuss
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289471#289471
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.mnbsp; Features Chat,
> <http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet4_205.pdf>http://www.matnbsp; via
> the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 23
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Raymond, I have gap seals on both the elevator and rudder and the airplane flies
beautifly..I am just trying to find out if dimple tape will help on the sink
rate prior to touchdown. Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 8:50:21 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dimple tape
Gardiner I sure enjoy reading about your test flights as it keeps my interest in
finishing up. What do you think the main difficulty is with power off landings-lack
of directional control? I was wondering if you have done any gap seals
on your rudder or elevators. thanks for the updates,and I just yesterday got
back to fabricating my cowling around the Corvair. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289484#289484
Message 24
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| Subject: | high sink rate power off |
If I had to guess, I would say not much is going to help the power off sink rate,
short of lightening the airplane, longer wings or different airfoil. You will
get used to the sink rate, and learn to adjust your landing paterns accordingly.
It took me a few hrs to get the feel of the piet, and now after 200 or
so, when I fly a cub or champ etc etc they feel like a sailplane in comparison.
The clipped wing Cubs are about the same feel as a piet. I have made a couple
engine out landings (Yes these were intensional you Corvair haters!, Dad's
was not). I climbed to 2000agl and shut her down over the airport and flew
a close pattern and aimed for the halfway point of the R/W. You defintely must
keep the nose down to keep speed up, and I carried a little more A/S to the
touchdown to make sure I had enough authority to flare out. It is really kind
of fun, the grass was wet with condensation and with no engine noise I could
hear the tires whisp through
the grass. Any way enjoy the airplane, feel it out and you'll love it more and
more each flight.
Shad
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: high sink rate power off |
Thank you Shad. Like you say, It takes a lot of getting used to. I am flying my
cessna 140 which is like a glider and the Piet which is another airplane altogether.
Believe it or not. the piet is more hands off then the cessna. What a
docile bird it is. Cheers, Gardiner Mason PS, I have 6 hours on it now and it
is time to change the oil and check for intake leaks. All temps are in the green.
----- Original Message ----
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 8:14:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: high sink rate power off
If I had to guess, I would say not much is going to help the power off sink rate,
short of lightening the airplane, longer wings or different airfoil. You will
get used to the sink rate, and learn to adjust your landing paterns accordingly.
It took me a few hrs to get the feel of the piet, and now after 200 or
so, when I fly a cub or champ etc etc they feel like a sailplane in comparison.
The clipped wing Cubs are about the same feel as a piet. I have made a couple
engine out landings (Yes these were intensional you Corvair haters!, Dad's
was not). I climbed to 2000agl and shut her down over the airport and flew
a close pattern and aimed for the halfway point of the R/W. You defintely must
keep the nose down to keep speed up, and I carried a little more A/S to the
touchdown to make sure I had enough authority to flare out. It is really kind
of fun, the grass was wet with condensation and with no engine noise I could
hear the tires whisp through
the grass. Any way enjoy the airplane, feel it out and you'll love it more and
more each flight.
Shad
Message 26
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| Subject: | coverall project |
Hey gang,
Just got back from a business trip and it looks like there are a lot of
fellows interested in some coveralls, but not a lot of agreement about a
logo.
I haven't been able to give this much thought as my wife collapsed today in
church and is in the hospital now while the neurologists are trying to
figure out what in the world is going on. So... with that and three kids at
home, work, etc, etc... I'm feeling like a one-legged-man in a kicking
contest right about now.
However, when things cool down here, I'll give it some thought and see if I
can come up with a plan that seems workable. Maybe we just all get our own
coveralls and send it to the silkscreeners ourselves (Jake??) or maybe they
come to me and I'll forward them along all at once, I don' t know. Sounds
like an old-timey Pietenpol logo is in order, but I really am attracted to a
more generic one as well as it's just a touch more authentic for the era.
Any prayers for Marci are appreciated!!
Douwe
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: wing placement |
Thanks, Jack, that is exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
I have always been particularly critical of weight and balance prior
to completion for the exact reason you give, the fabric/paint weighs a
LOT more than most people think, but this must be one case where it is
called for. I am ready to build sheet metal, but not ready to mount
wing, so a W&B right now is not possible. Not sure where to go right
now, but desperately trying to finish in time for Brodhead. I'll
probably build and slip roll the metal but not cut any strut or cable
holes just yet.
Gene
(making sheet metal, ready to cover fuselage, wing finished but not
varnished (winter caught it before I could), no wing struts cut to
length yet)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips<mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 5:21 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
Sorry Gene, I misunderstood your question.
I did a preliminary weight and balance on an Excel spreadsheet
(attached, see "Pietenpol Weight Balance") when I first began assembling
the airplane, making my best guesses (which turned out to be not very
accurate) of the weight of fabric and paint and any other components not
yet installed. As I added components I measured the arm and the weight
of eac component and added them to the spreadsheet. This weighing was
done with bathroom scales. I used this spreadsheet to estimate how far
back my wing needed to be. Then when I moved the ariplane to the
airport and assembled it for flight I weighed it again with certified
aircraft scales and found that I needed to move the wing back another
inch to keep the CG forward of 35% of the chord when flying solo with a
full fuel tank. I have also attached that spreadsheet ("Pietenpol
Actual Weight Balance 2")
I went back and reviewed my numbers just now. Initially I had the
wing 2.68" aft of vertical. After doing the actual weight and balance I
moved it back to 3.75" aft of vertical, not 4". However, 4" would
probably have been better since the CG is at 35% of the chord as it is.
It IS a bit sensitive in pitch but other than that I've seen no problems
with the CG that far aft. I have not tried to spin the airplane and
don't intend to.
As I recall I did have to trim the holes a bit, but just did it with a
Dremel tool and touched up the edges with paint.
Feel free to use the spreadsheets and plug in the numbers for your
weights and moment-arms. I chose to use the firewall as the datum, so
anything forward of the firewall must have a negative value for its arm.
Any items I have listed that you don't have, such as radios or
transponders, just plug in their weight as "0.00".
What can be learned from doing such a preliminary weight and balance?
Well, I learned that fabric and paint (particularly polyurethane paint)
weighs A LOT more than I thought. I'll bet I've got 60 lbs of paint on
that airplane.
Good luck,
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 3:57 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
I'm sorry guys, but you are not answering the question. Jack, you
moved the wing back 4" WHEN? AFTER you flew it? Did you do a final
weight and balance before you made your sheet metal? If not, when did
you do a weight and balance? several times at different points in
construction??
I have no idea how far back I "think I need" to move the cabanes,
where does that dimension come from? The entire question is directed at
not making the holes any bigger than they have to be, and NOT,
hopefully, trimming them after first flight, which requires repainting,
etc at the least, and remaking the metal at the worst.
Please help,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips<mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
Gene,
I moved my wing back a total of 4". I had already planned to move
it back 2-1/2" but the final weight and balance indicated another 1-1/2"
was necessary. When I did the sheet metal around the cabanes I left
some slop in the holes to allow some movement. It doesn't take much.
One inch of movement at the top of the cabanes only requires about 1/16"
at the bottom.
My advice would be to move the cabanes as far aft as you think you
would need, then cut the hole about 1/8" bigger than that. You can keep
it pretty tight to the strut. Cutting it after the fact is not that
hard (I had to do a little cutting) but putting the metal back if you
cut the hole too big is farily difficult.
One word of caution - Make the holes no bigger than than need to be
(with that 1/8" gap mentioned above). Apart from looking better with
the cowling fitting fairly tightly around the struts, the bigger the
hole the more rain water you will get in. Some water will get in
anyway, because the holes have to be big enough to allow access to the
bolts holding the strut to the fuselage.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 10:47 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing placement
For those of you already flying, how many of you have had to move
your wing fore/aft after the first flights? If not, what extra
precautions did you take to make sure that you had the strut and roll
wire holes in the correct locations?
I am making sheet metal, and I am wondering what I can do to make
sure that I get the locations correct the first time and not have to
remake sheet metal if I have to move the wing.
Gene
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 28
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Gardiner wrote:
>On final approach to landing I am trying to
>get used to the sink rate for landing. I like
>to land power off like I was taught., but I
>FIND THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE.
A couple of observations. (1) You can't fly a
big, wide, square pattern in the Piet unless
you keep the power on all the way till you get
ready to turn base, and maybe even past that.
There really is no reason to fly a big open
pattern anyway, unless you fly out of a busy
field where everybody has to play follow the
leader. (2) The best approach to fly after you
come abeam the numbers on downwind is a "circling
approach"... a semicircle that starts when you
pull the power and ends when you turn towards
the numbers. And as soon as you pull carb heat
and power, the airplane should be starting a
descending arc that ends at the numbers. If you
pull power on downwind abeam the numbers and
think you can continue straight ahead for a
quarter mile, then turn and fly a quarter mile
square base leg, then turn a square final
(all with power off), you're probably wrong.
The Piet will start coming down as soon as you
pull the power. I learned to fly in a J-3 and
was taught power-off landings, but the Cub
will glide pretty nicely on those long wings
while the Piet will head for home when the power
comes off.
Once you figure the airplane out though, you'll
see why this characteristic is so endearing.
You can land it almost anywhere.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: First Major Milestone |
I would really appreciate some details on this jig, if at all possible. Any
references?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
>
> Nice pics, Mark, thanks! I am still a big fan of your wing building jig.
> That'll work great for me and my cramped work area. How about posting some
> more in-process pics?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> 18 ribs done
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 8:41 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
>
>
> I'm not sure if this is actually a milestone, but I'm feeling pretty good
> about it. I took my left wing panel off the jig today and trial fit the
> aileron. Today was one of the first really nice days we have had in a
> long
> time, so I took my wing panel outside and set it on saw horses so I could
> look it over in the sun light. It all looks good so far. I still need to
> install control pulleys and LE sheeting, but the framework is complete.
>
> We measured the dimensions (front to rear spar - tip to root) and found
> that
> there is less than 1/8" difference in the measurements. I was told that
> is
> pretty good.
>
> I also wanted to check my jig with the water level before to starting the
> right wing panel... it hasn't moved since we locked it down, prior to
> starting assembly on the let panel.
>
> Here are a few photos.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289365#289365
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050408_768x576_159.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050410_768x576_118.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050412_768x576_128.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050413_768x576_133.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050415_768x576_123.jpg
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: coverall project |
Douwe, good luck with her prognosis. Jeff
Message 31
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| Subject: | First Major Milestone |
Ray,
Here's a link to Mark's web site:
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=k5yac&project=687&category=4
579
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
<raykrause@frontiernet.net>
I would really appreciate some details on this jig, if at all possible. Any
references?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
>
> Nice pics, Mark, thanks! I am still a big fan of your wing building jig.
> That'll work great for me and my cramped work area. How about posting some
> more in-process pics?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> 18 ribs done
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 8:41 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
>
>
> I'm not sure if this is actually a milestone, but I'm feeling pretty good
> about it. I took my left wing panel off the jig today and trial fit the
> aileron. Today was one of the first really nice days we have had in a
> long
> time, so I took my wing panel outside and set it on saw horses so I could
> look it over in the sun light. It all looks good so far. I still need to
> install control pulleys and LE sheeting, but the framework is complete.
>
> We measured the dimensions (front to rear spar - tip to root) and found
> that
> there is less than 1/8" difference in the measurements. I was told that
> is
> pretty good.
>
> I also wanted to check my jig with the water level before to starting the
> right wing panel... it hasn't moved since we locked it down, prior to
> starting assembly on the let panel.
>
> Here are a few photos.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289365#289365
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050408_768x576_159.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050410_768x576_118.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050412_768x576_128.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050413_768x576_133.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050415_768x576_123.jpg
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: coverall project |
Douwe, your wife is in our prayers.
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: coverall project
>
> Douwe, good luck with her prognosis. Jeff
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: "A Masterpiece Pietenpol" |
Thanks Lorin
Thats good to hear on a mighty tough day.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "A Masterpiece Pietenpol"
>
> It's a damp and foggy morning here in the lazy snowbound countryside of
> Iowa, a light quiet mist drizzling down. The fog is so thick that it
> muffles out sounds, you can?Tt see the old Lincoln highway a stones throw
> north. A morning meant for memories and nostalgia, the tinney sounds of
> "Sentimental Journey" quietly coming from some ratted out speakers at the
> back of the shop. The grey and very old shorthair is just lying on her
> rug in front of the heater, grunting and staring at me. Yes, it is time to
> break out the much dog-eared Feb 2008 Sport Aviation rag and review the
> article on Dick N?Ts radial Piet. What a great way to end the week.
> Lorin
>
> --------
> Lorin Miller
> Waiex N81YX
> Pietenpol next up
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289512#289512
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: First Major Milestone |
I don't have many details really... I just followed the details in Bingelis' book
and adjusted for my spar spacing.
The distance between spars is 27 3/4"... my spars are 3/4" thick... that tells
me that I needed to space the arms 28 1/2" apart. The main uprights are 2x4s
and the arms are 1x4s (I think), but it really isn't that important, just as long
as the material is sturdy enough to support the complete assembly. The arms
extend ~5" outward (to support the full width of the spars) and they are supported
by a couple of diagonals, cheap 1/4" plywood gussets, Elmer's wood glue
and a few small nails from the nail gun.
I used a shim to level the pair and clamped them to my workbench. The rest can
be seen in my log book photos or Tony's book, "Kitplane Construction Techniques."
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289607#289607
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: coverall project |
Douwe,
Let's talk about coveralls in a few months, as things settle down for you. We
will be thinking of you and Marci.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Mar 7, 2010 8:57 PM
>To: pietenpolgroup <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: coverall project
>
>
>Hey gang,
>
>Just got back from a business trip and it looks like there are a lot of
>fellows interested in some coveralls, but not a lot of agreement about a
>logo.
>
>I haven't been able to give this much thought as my wife collapsed today in
>church and is in the hospital now while the neurologists are trying to
>figure out what in the world is going on. So... with that and three kids at
>home, work, etc, etc... I'm feeling like a one-legged-man in a kicking
>contest right about now.
>
>However, when things cool down here, I'll give it some thought and see if I
>can come up with a plan that seems workable. Maybe we just all get our own
>coveralls and send it to the silkscreeners ourselves (Jake??) or maybe they
>come to me and I'll forward them along all at once, I don' t know. Sounds
>like an old-timey Pietenpol logo is in order, but I really am attracted to a
>more generic one as well as it's just a touch more authentic for the era.
>
>Any prayers for Marci are appreciated!!
>
>Douwe
>
>
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