Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:12 AM - Re: Fuse dimensions (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 03:46 AM - Re: Fuse dimensions (Ben Charvet)
3. 04:23 AM - Re: Air Camper build in Australia (bubbleboy)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: Fuse dimensions (Dave Abramson)
5. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Air Camper build in Australia (Rick Holland)
6. 10:04 AM - Re: Elevator droop in level flight? (skellytown flyer)
7. 10:41 AM - Re: Fuse dimensions (Jeff Boatright)
8. 10:44 AM - Re: Elevator droop in level flight? (Jeff Boatright)
9. 10:52 AM - Re: Fuse dimensions (Rick Holland)
10. 01:25 PM - Re: Fuse dimensions (Dave Abramson)
11. 01:33 PM - Re: Air Camper build in Australia (carson)
12. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: Elevator droop in level flight? (Ben Charvet)
13. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Elevator droop in level flight? (gcardinal)
14. 05:12 PM - Not a Piet, Thankfully (David Paule)
15. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Elevator droop in level flight? (Jack)
16. 05:27 PM - Re: Elevator droop in level flight? (skellytown flyer)
17. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Elevator droop in level flight? (Mike)
18. 08:13 PM - Re: Re: Elevator droop in level flight? (David Paule)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse dimensions |
Mark,
Before you move your seat back, consider moving the rudder bar forward. Wi
thout going out to measure, I think this could be done maybe 2 inches. The
reason I say this is because I just put on my rudder bar stops a la Mike
C. (glued them to the back face of the front seat forward uprights). I th
ink this could be done. Anybody think this is a bad idea?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
I am trying to plan out how far back to move the rear seat without effecti
ng the balance issues (much) as I simply need more leg room to tuck in my
6'4" frame.
Thanks for the feedback!
Mark
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse dimensions |
Sounds like a great idea.. My rudder bar stops are about 3 inches deep.
Ben Charvet
On 3/9/2010 6:11 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Mark,
> Before you move your seat back, consider moving the rudder bar
> forward. Without going out to measure, I think this could be done
> maybe 2 inches. The reason I say this is because I just put on my
> rudder bar stops a la Mike C. (glued them to the back face of the
> front seat forward uprights). I think this could be done. Anybody
> think this is a bad idea?
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> I am trying to plan out how far back to move the rear seat without
> effecting the balance issues (much) as I simply need more leg room to
> tuck in my 6'4" frame.
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
> Mark
>
> *
>
> ===================================
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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> *
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper build in Australia |
Hi Rick....not many Corvairs here in OZ! I had to get my block from the USA. How
is your Corvair running?
Scotty
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289766#289766
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Hey Mark,
I am 6'2" Built the short Fuse.... sat in it, and thought no way...
Removed the front seat... and now it's perfect! I will be using the front
for storage.
Maybe a long range fuel tank! I also was able to move my wind screen forward
a few inches.
I now have a nice roomy cockpit!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:55 PM
To: pietenpol-list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse dimensions
Hey All:
I am doing some planning on my fuse build (as a way for twiddling my
thumbs until I get more money) and am curious for some feedback from you
guys flying behind a Corvair engine. I understand that they are quite a bit
less weight than the original Model T Ford engine. I have read on the list
that some have lengthened the fuse in the nose 2-4 inches to compensate for
less weight rather than add weight to balance with a shorter nose even on
the long fuse version (I am going by memory here...).
Ok, I know I am simply begging to be flamed here, (Please resist :o), but
for those of you that are flying a corvair powered Piet long fuse version,
did you have to add weight in the nose?
I am trying to plan out how far back to move the rear seat without
effecting the balance issues (much) as I simply need more leg room to tuck
in my 6'4" frame.
Thanks for the feedback!
Mark
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper build in Australia |
Got it running this fall Scotty (with Jim Markle's help). Ran it one
more time this weekend before I pull it off so I can cover the
fuselage. Runs very smooth and doesn't leak anything (yet). Here is a
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCLmhFpxQOw
I assume you have heard of Broadhead (happens the weekend before
AirVenture) if you read this group much. A couple years ago a couple
Piet building "Kiwis" (as I believe you guys call New Zealanders) came
to Broadhead. Was great talking to them. Would be a hell of a trip,
half way around the planet but you would love it.
rick
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:23 AM, bubbleboy <scott.dawson@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Rick....not many Corvairs here in OZ! I had to get my block from the USA.
How is your Corvair running?
>
> Scotty
>
> --------
> Scotty
>
> Tamworth, Australia
> Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
>
> www.scottyspietenpol.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289766#289766
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator droop in level flight? |
sounds like it needs that attitude to maintain level flight. the wing naturally
has to be at a certain angle of attack at a given weight and speed.are you holding
any forward stick pressure? might be possible to raise the leading edge
of the horizontal stabilizer a little to reduce the down elevator and clean it
up a little but probably wouldn't gain much unless you're maintaining pressure
on the stick or have a trim tab doing it. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289809#289809
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Dave,
I can't visualize this (sorry, I have no imagination). When you say
you removed the front seat, does that mean you discarded the bulkhead
that forms the back of the front seat? I thought this is a structural
member. If you mean otherwise, please expand. A picture is worth a
thousand words, too.
Thanks much,
Jeff
>Hey Mark,
>
>I am 6'2" Built the short Fuse.... sat in it, and thought no way...
>Removed the front seat... and now it's perfect! I will be using the
>front for storage.
>Maybe a long range fuel tank! I also was able to move my wind screen
>forward a few inches.
>I now have a nice roomy cockpit!
>
>Dave
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator droop in level flight? |
Ben,
How about some pix of the trim system?
Thanks,
Jeff
>
>Hi group,
>I'm having a ball flying off my Phase 1. I installed a simple
>bungee trim system on my control stick and now it will fly hands off
>for several minutes. One question though. When trimmed for level
>flight at cruise RPMs the elevator hangs down about 3-5 degrees.
>I've noticed this on in-flight pictures of other Piets and just
>wonder if anyone has figured out why? The trim system I have is
>great, because when you pull the power back to 1400 RPM it starts
>descending at 65 MPH, and you can fly the base and final legs in
>nice trim for a wheel landing.
>
>Ben Charvet
>7 hours done, 18 to go for Sun-N-Fun
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse dimensions |
I am building a long fuse with a Corvair. The long fuselage is several
inches longer from the cabanes back and can therefore have more of a
tail-heavy tendency than the regular fuselage. I read an article (in
the archives somewhere) where Bernard recommended moving the firewall
forward 6 inches if using a Continental engine, I believe he said he
built one with the firewall 9 inches forward and said that was too
much. When I talked to other long fuse Corvair Piet builders that had
to more their wings back 3-4" to get in CG I decided to move my
firewall forward enough so I could be really unique and have vertical
cabanes. I weighed my assembled but uncovered airframe on aircraft
scales with scrap iron strategically placed to simulate fuel weight to
figure where the engine needed to be before making the engine mount.
Ended up placing the engine with the rear of the balancer about 6"
from the firewall.
Of course until I cover and paint (which Jack P. says will move your
CG back a bit), and do a final weight and balance I have no idea if
my calculations are correct.
rick
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey All:
>
> I am doing some planning on my fuse build (as a way for twiddling my thumbs
> until I get more money) and am curious for some feedback from you guys
> flying behind a Corvair engine. I understand that they are quite a bit less
> weight than the original Model T Ford engine. I have read on the list that
> some have lengthened the fuse in the nose 2-4 inches to compensate for less
> weight rather than add weight to balance with a shorter nose even on the
> long fuse version (I am going by memory here...).
>
> Ok, I know I am simply begging to be flamed here, (Please resist :o), but
> for those of you that are flying a corvair powered Piet long fuse version,
> did you have to add weight in the nose?
>
> I am trying to plan out how far back to move the rear seat without effecting
> the balance issues (much) as I simply need more leg room to tuck in my 6'4"
> frame.
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
> Mark
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 10
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuse dimensionsHi Jeff,
I only cut a portion of the bulkhead out, and put some extra pieces of wood
in that area...Just made it so my legs have plenty of room. Moving the
rudder bar forward about 5".....
Don't really have any photos...
I should take some! I will take some next time I am there and send to you!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:40 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuse dimensions
Dave,
I can't visualize this (sorry, I have no imagination). When you say you
removed the front seat, does that mean you discarded the bulkhead that forms
the back of the front seat? I thought this is a structural member. If you
mean otherwise, please expand. A picture is worth a thousand words, too.
Thanks much,
Jeff
Hey Mark,
I am 6'2" Built the short Fuse.... sat in it, and thought no way...
Removed the front seat... and now it's perfect! I will be using the
front for storage.
Maybe a long range fuel tank! I also was able to move my wind screen
forward a few inches.
I now have a nice roomy cockpit!
Dave
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper build in Australia |
Hi scott
Great to see another Piet in OZ I am looking forward to the day we all have them
finished and have a flyin of our own.
I am just north of Brisbane but I come from down your way, near Scone
I often pass through Tamworth on my way home to see the folks.
Also I brought all my spruce from a guy in Newcastle well priced great quality
and will save you a lot on shipping.
Email me if you like carsonvella@yahoo.com.au
I have tail,fuse,gear one half of wing done and currently working on the other.
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289830#289830
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator droop in level flight? |
I'm actually holding lots of back pressure on the stick to maintain
level flight....
Ben
On 3/9/2010 1:04 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "skellytown flyer"<skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
>
> sounds like it needs that attitude to maintain level flight. the wing naturally
has to be at a certain angle of attack at a given weight and speed.are you
holding any forward stick pressure? might be possible to raise the leading edge
of the horizontal stabilizer a little to reduce the down elevator and clean
it up a little but probably wouldn't gain much unless you're maintaining pressure
on the stick or have a trim tab doing it. Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289809#289809
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator droop in level flight? |
Hi Ben,
NX18235 needed a substantial amount of back pressure to maintain level
flight on it's first flights. On close inspection it was discovered that the
elevators were rigged slightly uneven.
Adjusting the cables to even out the elevators removed most of the nose-down
tendencies.
Lowering the front edge of the stabilizer using cable tension took care of
the rest.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
>
> I'm actually holding lots of back pressure on the stick to maintain level
> flight....
>
> Ben
> On 3/9/2010 1:04 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "skellytown
>> flyer"<skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
>>
>> sounds like it needs that attitude to maintain level flight. the wing
>> naturally has to be at a certain angle of attack at a given weight and
>> speed.are you holding any forward stick pressure? might be possible to
>> raise the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer a little to reduce
>> the down elevator and clean it up a little but probably wouldn't gain
>> much unless you're maintaining pressure on the stick or have a trim tab
>> doing it. Raymond
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289809#289809
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Not a Piet, Thankfully |
This oddity is from Henri Mignet, who apparently felt that a wingspan of
seven feet was enough. Especially if there were six of them.
Powered by a flat-four, it was built in 1935.
http://www.rbantiques.com/AC4804.htm
David Paule
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator droop in level flight? |
Has anyone ever tried a lifting airfoil for the tail? I did this for many
of my RC's and it helped a bunch. The tail would come up faster and it
seemed to improve the pitch control.
Jack
DSM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
<skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
sounds like it needs that attitude to maintain level flight. the wing
naturally has to be at a certain angle of attack at a given weight and
speed.are you holding any forward stick pressure? might be possible to raise
the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer a little to reduce the down
elevator and clean it up a little but probably wouldn't gain much unless
you're maintaining pressure on the stick or have a trim tab doing it.
Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289809#289809
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator droop in level flight? |
Sounds really odd that you are holding quite a bit of back pressure and the elevators
are still in the down position? if they were up I'd think maybe the weight
and balance was too far forward but I don't know why they would be down with
back stick pressure.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289859#289859
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator droop in level flight? |
The airflow at the horizontal is almost never aligned with the longitudinal
axis of the fuselage because it is very much affected by downwash from the
wing. The elevators may have to be even further out of alignment with the
horizontal in order to be at neutral pitch input.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown
flyer
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
--> <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
Sounds really odd that you are holding quite a bit of back pressure and the
elevators are still in the down position? if they were up I'd think maybe
the weight and balance was too far forward but I don't know why they would
be down with back stick pressure.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289859#289859
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator droop in level flight? |
Some aircraft have a downward-lifting tail, since there's generally a
downward force on the tail except during take-off.
David Paule
>
> Has anyone ever tried a lifting airfoil for the tail? I did this for many
> of my RC's and it helped a bunch. The tail would come up faster and it
> seemed to improve the pitch control.
> Jack
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