---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/14/10: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:50 AM - Re: Rib Stitching Tail Surfaces (gliderx5@comcast.net) 2. 06:08 AM - Re: Piet search (Jerry Dotson) 3. 06:51 AM - Re: V speeds (gcardinal) 4. 07:50 AM - Re: V speeds (Jeff Boatright) 5. 09:50 AM - Re: V speeds (airlion) 6. 10:07 AM - Re: V speeds (Jack Phillips) 7. 10:51 AM - Glue or screw instrument board (at7000ft) 8. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: V speeds (Jack) 9. 11:06 AM - Re: Glue or screw instrument board (David Paule) 10. 01:21 PM - Front fuse question (Mark Roberts) 11. 02:56 PM - Re: Front fuse question (Ben Charvet) 12. 03:00 PM - Re: Front fuse question (Gary Boothe) 13. 03:00 PM - Re: Glue or screw instrument board (Ben Charvet) 14. 03:42 PM - Re: Front fuse question (Rick Holland) 15. 05:14 PM - Re: Front fuse question (Pieti Lowell) 16. 05:43 PM - fuel tank (skellytown flyer) 17. 05:50 PM - gorilla glue one more time (Dick N) 18. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: V speeds (Jack Phillips) 19. 06:44 PM - Ranger Power - (was) Front fuse question (David Paule) 20. 06:49 PM - Re: Ranger Power - (was) Front fuse question (Jack Phillips) 21. 06:59 PM - Re: Ranger Power - (was) Front fuse question (Wayne Bressler) 22. 07:05 PM - Re: gorilla glue one more time (Rick Holland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:20 AM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Stitching Tail Surfaces Thanks for the replies. I started rib stitching last night. It took about 6 stitches to get the hang of it. I'll continue today and see how far I get. Malcolm Morrison ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet search From: "Jerry Dotson" I found this on the FAA web site. The picture was on airport-data site. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290276#290276 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a10_616.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/n520sf_411.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:58 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Hi Jeff, NX18235 is equipped with an uncalibrated Johnson Airspeed indicator. I fly it by feel more than by reference to the airspeed indicator but here are my WAG's: Vso = 28 -32 mph Vx = 50 mph Vy = 55 mph Vno = 72 - 75 mph Vne = At 100 mph the controls tighten up and the airplane is telling me to "Back off, fool!" Vref = 50 - 55 mph Va = 65 mph Again, these numbers are based on "feel" and not on any kind of scientific testing. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: V speeds > > Just because it's too windy and rainy to fly today, I'm goint to stir the > pot: > > What are you using for Vso, Vx, Vy, Vno, Vne, Vref, Va, etc. and what are > your numbers based on? > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:12 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Wow, Vso of 28-32 mph is impressive. -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:29 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: V speeds How many vg's and dimples did you have to add to get those speeds? Gardiner ----- Original Message ---- From: Jeff Boatright Sent: Sun, March 14, 2010 11:25:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Wow, Vso of 28-32 mph is impressive. -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:35 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Note that this is an "indicated" speed. My indicated stall speed is 29 mph, but as referenced with a GPS, it is really about 35 mph. I agree with Greg with his speeds. Mine are about the same. I have never had mine anywhere close to 100 mph. It starts feeling weird about 90. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Wow, Vso of 28-32 mph is impressive. -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Glue or screw instrument board From: "at7000ft" How many of you guys who have completed Piets with glued in instrument boards (panels) later wished you would have screwed it in instead? (So you could easily install a different board with a different layout, etc). I have made 4 different panels using Home Depot ply to get a layout I "think" works, but until I fly this thing I can't know for sure. thanks rick -------- Rick Holland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290294#290294 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:13 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Jack and or others...Is there a better place to mount the pitot for improved accuracy? Longer better? Thanks, sunny and 45 hear finally! Jack DSM Note that this is an "indicated" speed. My indicated stall speed is 29 mph, but as referenced with a GPS, it is really about 35 mph. I agree with Greg with his speeds. Mine are about the same. I have never had mine anywhere close to 100 mph. It starts feeling weird about 90. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Wow, Vso of 28-32 mph is impressive. -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:00 AM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Glue or screw instrument board It will be somewhat difficult to make such a change due to the connections required. Suggestions abound. Here are mine: a) Ask people what they like and don't like about their own panels, and give yours the benefit of the lessons they learned. b) Fly a few rental planes and see what you like. Personally, and I don't have a Pietenpol so this might not suit you, I like the airspeed on the upper left, with the tachometer near it. The altimeter should be in the area. I like the compass in the top middle, and the systems information gauges where ever it's handy to place them. David Paule > > How many of you guys who have completed Piets with glued in instrument > boards (panels) later wished you would have screwed it in instead? (So you > could easily install a different board with a different layout, etc). I > have made 4 different panels using Home Depot ply to get a layout I > "think" works, but until I fly this thing I can't know for sure. > > thanks > > rick ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front fuse question From: Mark Roberts OK... After looking at the plans and as many online pics from West Coast Piet (thanks Chris!) I am finally asking the question here as I can't figure it out myself: Besides the 1.25" x1.5" white ash cross member located (I'm assuming) approx 4.75" below the top of the Fuse Longerons, what else holds the fuse together at the nose? The engine mount brackets line the sides of the bottom (and top) longerons, so trying to glue a cross member at the bottom of the fuse is pointless, and I would think one cross member at the nose is not enough. I know I am missing it, but is there only one cross member at the nose? --The white ash piece and plywood covering the bottom? I am 'building' mine currently in Sketch Up as I still wait for $$ to build. I am just glad I got the plans while I could :o) Mark ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:05 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front fuse question I glued the plywood firewall to the front while it was still in the jig for joining the fuselage sides (1/8 inch) Ben On Sun Mar 14th, 2010 4:06 PM EDT Mark Roberts wrote: >OK... After looking at the plans and as many online pics from West Coast >Piet (thanks Chris!) I am finally asking the question here as I can't figure >it out myself: Besides the 1.25" x1.5" white ash cross member located (I'm >assuming) approx 4.75" below the top of the Fuse Longerons, what else holds >the fuse together at the nose? The engine mount brackets line the sides of >the bottom (and top) longerons, so trying to glue a cross member at the >bottom of the fuse is pointless, and I would think one cross member at the >nose is not enough. > >I know I am missing it, but is there only one cross member at the nose? >--The white ash piece and plywood covering the bottom? > >I am 'building' mine currently in Sketch Up as I still wait for $$ to build. >I am just glad I got the plans while I could :o) > >Mark ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:15 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Front fuse question Mark, This is almost built to plans. What are the dowels for? That was an idea that I got from Jim Boyer. They are locating dowels for the wood fire wall, which I probably had off and on 100 times! (seemed like it). Here you can see that eventually it all ties together with the fire wall glued on and hoop over the top, similar to Jack Phillips. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down.) ________________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front fuse question OK... After looking at the plans and as many online pics from West Coast Piet (thanks Chris!) I am finally asking the question here as I can't figure it out myself: Besides the 1.25" x1.5" white ash cross member located (I'm assuming) approx 4.75" below the top of the Fuse Longerons, what else holds the fuse together at the nose? The engine mount brackets line the sides of the bottom (and top) longerons, so trying to glue a cross member at the bottom of the fuse is pointless, and I would think one cross member at the nose is not enough. I know I am missing it, but is there only one cross member at the nose? --The white ash piece and plywood covering the bottom? I am 'building' mine currently in Sketch Up as I still wait for $$ to build. I am just glad I got the plans while I could :o) Mark ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:15 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Glue or screw instrument board I screwed mine on for that reason. Who knows what kind of glass cockpit I might install later ;) Ben On Sun Mar 14th, 2010 1:50 PM EDT at7000ft wrote: > >How many of you guys who have completed Piets with glued in instrument boards (panels) later wished you would have screwed it in instead? (So you could easily install a different board with a different layout, etc). I have made 4 different panels using Home Depot ply to get a layout I "think" works, but until I fly this thing I can't know for sure. > >thanks > >rick > >-------- >Rick Holland > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290294#290294 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Front fuse question From: Rick Holland Correct Mark, just the bottom ply, the ash cross member, and then the firewall holds it all together. I also thought it was strange that no front cross members were needed between the top longerons and another between the bottom longerons. And if you are not using a Model A engine even the ash cross member doesn't seem to be needed (but most everyone leaves it in there anyhow), I found it useful for a front fuel tank support and a solid support to attach my battery box on the firewall. rick On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > OK... After looking at the plans and as many online pics from West Coast > Piet (thanks Chris!) I am finally asking the question here as I can't figure > it out myself: Besides the 1.25" x1.5" white ash cross member located (I'm > assuming) approx 4.75" below the top of the Fuse Longerons, what else holds > the fuse together at the nose? The engine mount brackets line the sides of > the bottom (and top) longerons, so trying to glue a cross member at the > bottom of the fuse is pointless, and I would think one cross member at the > nose is not enough. > > I know I am missing it, but is there only one cross member at the nose? > --The white ash piece and plywood covering the bottom? > > I am 'building' mine currently in Sketch Up as I still wait for $$ to build. > I am just glad I got the plans while I could :o) > > Mark > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Front fuse question From: "Pieti Lowell" Mark: If you stick to the plans. as my Piet was built. the following engines were mounted. Ford A. Ford B, Warner 145 ( 500 ) cu In. back to Ford B With Weber Carb, Lambert 90 HP, again back to Ford B w/ fuel injection. All were mounted on the original fire wall design and engine mounts and Never a loose joint or an item of concern. Keep in mind all the necessary other items that require changes with each engine. Sure would like to try a Ranger. might require the wing relocation adjusted. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290321#290321 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank From: "skellytown flyer" I am not contemplating doing anything additional right now to prolong my build, but another build site has been talking about making fuel tanks and the method of using galvanized sheet metal and putting it together with screws and soldering over the seams and screws seemed to be a logical method to me. I plan at some point on making a tank I could fit up in my center wing section and gravity feeding to the main tank. wouldn't hold a lot but 4 or 5 gallons would sure relax the time before needing to land. i get a little nervous if I'm flying strange country with less than an hour's reserve.just thought I'd bring up the method in case anybody has wondered about tank construction. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290324#290324 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:01 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Pietenpol-List: gorilla glue one more time Sorry for bringing it up again, but I went out and bought a Volmer Sportsman that had been finished in 1967. The rear end had been sitting in the snow and had gotten quite saturated. The man I bought it from said he had done some repairs to the rear end of the plane with Gorilla glue. For anyone who is interested, I will bring some samples of this along with me to Sun n Fun. I will cut up some small sections and who ever wants to can try disassembling on your own. From what I've seen, I am not at all impreessed. IN FACT I WOULD SAY DO NOT USE IT. Dick N. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:36 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Better than what? Where are you planning on mounting it? Mine is under the left wing, secured to the jury strut and extends about a foot in front of the leading edge. The problem with a fixed pitot tube is that at high angles of attack it doesn't see the full ram air pressure so it reads low at high angles of attack. Not really a problem as you get used to seeing what the airspeed indicator reads and fly accordingly. In reality, I fly the Pietenpol much more by feel at high AoA. The airplane talks to you very clearly. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 1:32 PM Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Jack and or others...Is there a better place to mount the pitot for improved accuracy? Longer better? Thanks, sunny and 45 hear finally! Jack DSM Note that this is an "indicated" speed. My indicated stall speed is 29 mph, but as referenced with a GPS, it is really about 35 mph. I agree with Greg with his speeds. Mine are about the same. I have never had mine anywhere close to 100 mph. It starts feeling weird about 90. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: V speeds Wow, Vso of 28-32 mph is impressive. -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:45 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ranger Power - (was) Front fuse question You'd be in good company. According to the March 8th issue of "Aviation Week and Space Technology," page 30, Boeing is planning to use two Ford Ranger pickup engines, set up to use liquid hydrogen for fuel, to power their Phantom Eye demonstrator. The airplane has a wingspan of 153 feet and a length of 53 feet, and is supposed to fly at 60,000 feet for 96 hours. And this thing isn't even full size. It's 60% or 70% scale. Guess someone there knows about flying Ford engines.... David Paule > Sure would like to try a Ranger. might require the wing relocation > adjusted. > Pieti Lowell ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:18 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ranger Power - (was) Front fuse question I think the Ranger Pieti was talking about was a Ranger aircraft engine, an inverted inline 6 cylinder, used to power the Fairchild 22, the Fairchild 24, the PT-19 and other airplanes. Not a Ford pickup truck engine. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Paule Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ranger Power - (was) Front fuse question You'd be in good company. According to the March 8th issue of "Aviation Week and Space Technology," page 30, Boeing is planning to use two Ford Ranger pickup engines, set up to use liquid hydrogen for fuel, to power their Phantom Eye demonstrator. The airplane has a wingspan of 153 feet and a length of 53 feet, and is supposed to fly at 60,000 feet for 96 hours. And this thing isn't even full size. It's 60% or 70% scale. Guess someone there knows about flying Ford engines.... David Paule > Sure would like to try a Ranger. might require the wing relocation > adjusted. > Pieti Lowell ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:44 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ranger Power - (was) Front fuse question Isn't there a four-cylinder Ranger, too? (aviation, not truck) Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On Mar 14, 2010, at 9:48 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrote: > > > > I think the Ranger Pieti was talking about was a Ranger aircraft > engine, an > inverted inline 6 cylinder, used to power the Fairchild 22, the > Fairchild > 24, the PT-19 and other airplanes. Not a Ford pickup truck engine. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > David Paule > Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:43 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ranger Power - (was) Front fuse question > > > You'd be in good company. According to the March 8th issue of > "Aviation Week > > and Space Technology," page 30, Boeing is planning to use two Ford > Ranger > pickup engines, set up to use liquid hydrogen for fuel, to power their > Phantom Eye demonstrator. The airplane has a wingspan of 153 feet > and a > length of 53 feet, and is supposed to fly at 60,000 feet for 96 > hours. And > this thing isn't even full size. It's 60% or 70% scale. > > Guess someone there knows about flying Ford engines.... > > David Paule > > >> Sure would like to try a Ranger. might require the wing relocation >> adjusted. >> Pieti Lowell > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gorilla glue one more time From: Rick Holland I agree Dick, I glued my mock fuselage together with a poly glue like Gorilla glue. It has been sitting outside for a couple years and every month more piece fall off of it as the glue kind of dissolves. rick On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Dick N wrote: > Sorry for bringing it up again, but I went out and bought a Volmer Sportsman > that had been finished in 1967. The rear end had been sitting in the snow > and had gotten quite saturated. The man I bought it from said he had done > some repairs to the rear end of the plane with Gorilla glue. For anyone who > is interested, I will bring some samples of this along with me to Sun n > Fun. I will cut up some small sections and who ever wants to can try > disassembling on your own. >From what I've seen, I am not at all > impreessed.INFACT I WOULD SAY DONOT USE IT. > > Dick N. > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.