---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/25/10: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:47 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Update (Jack) 2. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Update (Rick Holland) 3. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Update (Michael Perez) 4. 12:01 PM - Rudder cables (Ed G.) 5. 01:12 PM - gps speed (Douwe Blumberg) 6. 01:26 PM - Re: Rudder cables (TOM STINEMETZE) 7. 01:30 PM - Cloudcars prop: correcting myself (Jeff Boatright) 8. 02:34 PM - Re: gps speed (Tim Willis) 9. 02:37 PM - Re: gps speed (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 10. 02:37 PM - Re: Rudder cables (walt) 11. 02:42 PM - Re: gps speed (walt) 12. 02:45 PM - FAA issues warning about homebuilt Lancairs (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 13. 02:47 PM - Re: gps speed (Dan Yocum) 14. 02:56 PM - Re: Rudder cables (taildrags) 15. 03:00 PM - Re: FAA issues warning about homebuilt Lancairs (taildrags) 16. 03:06 PM - Re: gps speed (Michael Silvius) 17. 03:18 PM - Re: FAA issues warning about homebuilt Lancairs (Wayne Bressler) 18. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage Update (Clif Dawson) 19. 07:57 PM - Re: Rudder cables (Pieti Lowell) 20. 09:38 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage Update (Michael Perez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:02 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Update Oh yes Waldo was spotted, the tailless Piet was jut more remarkable... Jack DSM Do not archive Uh oh, by carelessly releasing this photo, it looks like I have inadvertently let out my secret plans to incorporate an "improved" single wheel landing gear design. Now that the idea is out there, it will likely get picked up and completed by one of those faster builders who like incorporating different details (without naming names like Mike Perez). Yes Jack, that thing is my mock-up fuselage, built out of about $30 worth of wood and carpenter's glue. It was a useful exercise, but now it's really getting in the way. I'm debating whether to keep it or not. The dog stays, though (good dog). Glad you can appreciate the mess, Gary. Every once in a while I clean it all up, and it doesn't look nearly so bad. Still only 18 ribs? If your workspace is anything like my mess, you may have a few more ribs hidden somewhere. BC PS: Did you find Waldo? Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291642#291642 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Update From: Rick Holland You secret is safe, your workshop is such a mess (like mine) that I didn't even notice the mono-gear design. rick On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Bill Church wrote: > > Uh oh, by carelessly releasing this photo, it looks like I have inadvertently let out my secret plans to incorporate an "improved" single wheel landing gear design. Now that the idea is out there, it will likely get picked up and completed by one of those faster builders who like incorporating different details (without naming names like Mike Perez). > > Yes Jack, that thing is my mock-up fuselage, built out of about $30 worth of wood and carpenter's glue. It was a useful exercise, but now it's really getting in the way. I'm debating whether to keep it or not. The dog stays, though (good dog). > > Glad you can appreciate the mess, Gary. Every once in a while I clean it all up, and it doesn't look nearly so bad. Still only 18 ribs? If your workspace is anything like my mess, you may have a few more ribs hidden somewhere. > > BC > > PS: Did you find Waldo? > > Do Not Archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291642#291642 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:44 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Update But Bill, seeing how I like to change things AND NOT do what others do, I'l l have to make my single wheel landing gear retractable, but no heavier the n a single fixed! ( Now I have to machine a crank handle, gears, shafts...) - I agree with the others as well Jack, very nice fuse. To me, it has been th e most fun part to work on. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:20 PM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder cables Hi Everyone out there in Pietland. Has anyone out there run their rudder c ables directly to the rudder horn as per the plans? I drilled a couple litt le holes in my seat back and ran some string and except for the asthetics o f haveing the cable in the rear pit it seems to work out really nice and si mple and Tony B. recommends it. AND those who have run them under the se at.. I have seen pics of pulleys behind the seat to turn the cables up. do they run directly to the rudder from there or is there another pulley or fa irlead at the rear used to turn the cable angle back down?? Thanks in adva nce Ed G. _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox .. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:01 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: gps speed Potentially stupid question but... Are GPS speeds ground speeds or do they have some way to figure out your airspeed? I'm assuming it can only track you against the ground, but who knows these days. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:29 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder cables Ed: I ran the cables from the rudder bar to a set of dual pulleys directly behind the pilot's seat back. One pulley directs the cable up to the rudder horn and the second directs a second cable down to the tail wheel steering horn. There is a small wood fairlead installed on the rudder cables at the point where the cables will exit the airplane. This fairlead is not so much to change cable direction as it is to minimize the size of the slot through the fabric covering material by holding cable movement at that point to just in and out. Sorry, I don't have any photos available at this time. Tom Stinemetze N328X (eventually) >>I have seen pics of pulleys behind the seat to turn the cables up. do they run directly to the rudder from there or is there another pulley or fairlead at the rear used to turn the >>cable angle back down?? Thanks in advance Ed G. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:22 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cloudcars prop: correcting myself I stated yesterday that my Cloudcars prop is solid and not laminated. Jay kindly corrected me - all of his props are laminated, it's just that some have alternating woods that are distinctly different in color. My prop is of the same wood stained so dark (my preference) that I couldn't tell. I was up yesterday evening flying. Super still air. It was a good reminder of how much a difference this prop makes. Great climb and no loss of speed at cruise or top rpm. In fact, I was playing around flying loose formation with another guy from 2GA9. To catch up to him I was running at 2500 rpm and approaching 100 mph. That is really fast for our Piet! Once I caught up, we slow-flighted around for about a half hour. I was running at 1850-1900 rpm, which gave level flight at 55-60 mph. Boy, that was a lot of fun! I think I was right at the peak of the power curve. Any slower and I would have had to increase rpm to maintain level flight. Any more rpm, and I picked up speed. -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:44 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gps speed ground speeds -----Original Message----- >From: Douwe Blumberg >Sent: Mar 25, 2010 8:58 AM >To: pietenpolgroup >Subject: Pietenpol-List: gps speed > > >Potentially stupid question but... > >Are GPS speeds ground speeds or do they have some way to figure out your >airspeed? > >I'm assuming it can only track you against the ground, but who knows these >days. > >Thanks > >Douwe > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:48 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gps speed Douwe, GPS indicated your speed over the ground. It is really nice when you're coming home from Wisconsin and sometimes it says 90 or 95 in a Pietenpol. Likewise it is laborious westbound sometimes when it says horrible things like 50, 55.... Mike C. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:55 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rudder cables Ed, I ran mine back to a pair of pullies basically one stage ahead of the point of the pivot of the swingarm of the original tailwheel. Then to the tailwheel, hooked to it with springs. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. To: piet-list piet-list Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder cables Hi Everyone out there in Pietland. Has anyone out there run their rudder cables directly to the rudder horn as per the plans? I drilled a couple little holes in my seat back and ran some string and except for the asthetics of haveing the cable in the rear pit it seems to work out really nice and simple and Tony B. recommends it. AND those who have run them under the seat.. I have seen pics of pulleys behind the seat to turn the cables up. do they run directly to the rudder from there or is there another pulley or fairlead at the rear used to turn the cable angle back down?? Thanks in advance Ed G. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:38 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gps speed ground speed walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gps speed Potentially stupid question but... Are GPS speeds ground speeds or do they have some way to figure out your airspeed? I'm assuming it can only track you against the ground, but who knows these days. Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:04 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA issues warning about homebuilt Lancairs FAA Issues Safety Warning for Homemade Planes AP The Federal Aviation Administration warned pilots that the Lancair, which i s built from kits, and others like it are apt to stall at speeds higher tha t 61 mph. * print * email * share * recommend (0) WASHINGTON -- Federal officials say high-performance homemade planes like t he one that killed a beach jogger last week in South Carolina are likely to stall at higher speeds and have been involved in a disproportionately larg e number of fatal accidents. The Federal Aviation Administration warned pilots on Thursday that the Lanc air, which is built from kits, and others like it are apt to stall at speed s higher that 61 mph. The agency also cautioned that since the planes are b uilt by amateurs, there can be differences in performance, including at wha t speed they might stall. Lancair kits are made by Lancair International Inc. of Redmond, Ore. Pharmaceutical salesman Robert Gary Jones was killed on a Hilton Head Islan d beach as the pilot of a Lancair tried to land the plane. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:04 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gps speed Hi Douwe, On 03/25/2010 08:58 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" > > Potentially stupid question but... > > Are GPS speeds ground speeds or do they have some way to figure out your > airspeed? > > I'm assuming it can only track you against the ground, but who knows these > days. Not unless there's an ASI hooked up to your GPS unit will it show actual airspeed - it only shows ground speed. The hangliding/soaring community has some spiffy handheld GPS/ASI/barometric devices. They come with a little fan that you stick out into the slipstream. Since I'm assuming you're wondering about calibrating your ASI, use this method to determine the real vs. displayed air speeds. Get a winds aloft report to determine the direction of the wind, then fly into the wind for a minute to get an accurate reading. Then using the same power setting, turn around and fly with the wind for a minute. Average the 2 speeds and voila! there you have it. You should do it for at least 3 power settings to see if the difference between real and indicated is linear or some strange exponential curve. Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder cables From: "taildrags" The cables on 41CC are run in parallel from the rudder bar back to the tail. I don't remember exactly what happens under the seat but it's pretty simple... fairleads, I think, and after passing under the seat they diverge with the rudder cables shooting straight on back to the rudder horns but the tailwheel steering cables following the lower longerons to those hard molded plastic fairleads a couple of stations forward of the tailpost, where they dive out the sides to the steering horns on the tailwheel. -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291737#291737 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FAA issues warning about homebuilt Lancairs From: "taildrags" Thanks for the warning. Should I mark the airspeed indicator with the lower end of the green arc at 61 MPH now? That's just below cruise speed ;o) Pretty soon the bureaucrats will be trying to regulate, dictate, mandate, and obfuscate everything except what their REAL business is and we'll have so many safety labels, warnings, placards, operating instructions, limitations, decals, permits, certificates, and other junk all over the airplane that we won't need any paint on them at all (latex or otherwise). -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291738#291738 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:21 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gps speed Well if you have a 30 thousand $ stack like this one and know how to fiddle with all the knobs it will even give you airspeed calibrated for altitude but on your regular handhelds, no. Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" > Are GPS speeds ground speeds or do they have some way to figure out your > airspeed? > > I'm assuming it can only track you against the ground, but who knows these > days. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:12 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA issues warning about homebuilt Lancairs What does any of this have to do with the incident on the beach? The AP reported this? Sheesh... Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On Mar 25, 2010, at 5:33 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" wrote: > > FAA Issues Safety Warning for Homemade Planes > AP > The Federal Aviation Administration warned pilots that the Lancair, > which is built from kits, and others like it are apt to stall at > speeds higher that 61 mph. > print > email > share > recommend (0) > Independent Bitmap) 3.jpg> > WASHINGTON -- Federal officials say high-performance homemade planes > like the one that killed a beach jogger last week in South Carolina > are likely to stall at higher speeds and have been involved in a > disproportionately large number of fatal accidents. > The Federal Aviation Administration warned pilots on Thursday that > the Lancair, which is built from kits, and others like it are apt to > stall at speeds higher that 61 mph. The agency also cautioned that > since the planes are built by amateurs, there can be differences in > performance, including at what speed they might stall. > Lancair kits are made by Lancair International Inc. of Redmond, Ore. > Pharmaceutical salesman Robert Gary Jones was killed on a Hilton > Head Island beach as the pilot of a Lancair tried to land the plane. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:22 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Update So exactly where is this wheel retracted to? It seems to me it could get pretty funky retracted to the rear. New meaning to the expression " crotch rocket" . He! he! Clif "There are many tunes still to be written in the Key of C." Arnold Schoenberg But Bill, seeing how I like to change things AND NOT do what others do, I'll have to make my single wheel landing gear retractable, but no heavier then a single fixed! ( Now I have to machine a crank handle, gears, shafts...) .M Perez ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder cables From: "Pieti Lowell" The important thing is, the tail wheel control arms, at the rudder, must rotate the same degree as the rudder, IE. same lengths on each arm or you will experience a very serious problem of tail end control. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291767#291767 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:07 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Update I was thinking more like it would swing forward and rotate 90 deg. to come up flush with the fuselage bottom. MAN! You guys have no imagination! - Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.