---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/31/10: 58 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:23 AM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 04:36 AM - Re: Firewall Fabrication (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 05:03 AM - Re: Re: forming aluminum (Jim Ash) 4. 05:06 AM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Jim Ash) 5. 06:11 AM - Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 6. 06:52 AM - Re: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too (Michael Perez) 7. 07:21 AM - Re: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too (TOM STINEMETZE) 8. 07:24 AM - Re: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too (TOM STINEMETZE) 9. 07:25 AM - Re: forming aluminum (David Paule) 10. 07:56 AM - New Corvair starter for sale (chase143(at)aol.com) 11. 08:14 AM - Re: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too (Ryan Mueller) 12. 08:31 AM - used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 13. 08:32 AM - Re: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too (TOM STINEMETZE) 14. 08:33 AM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Jeff Boatright) 15. 09:43 AM - Sun-N-Fun (Ben Charvet) 16. 09:43 AM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Ryan Mueller) 17. 09:44 AM - Re: electronic tach (shad bell) 18. 09:45 AM - B-25 gathering in april (shad bell) 19. 09:55 AM - Re: Sun-N-Fun (Barry Davis) 20. 10:14 AM - Re: electronic tach (jeff wilson) 21. 10:14 AM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Rick Holland) 22. 10:14 AM - Re: Sun-N-Fun (airlion) 23. 10:15 AM - Re: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. (taildrags) 24. 10:21 AM - Re: forming aluminum (taildrags) 25. 10:33 AM - Re: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. (Rick Holland) 26. 10:34 AM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Jeff Boatright) 27. 10:34 AM - metal fatigue minimized by using 0000 dead soft aluminum (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 28. 10:35 AM - Re: Intercom (Dan Yocum) 29. 10:58 AM - Re: Insurance question (coxwelljon) 30. 11:07 AM - Re: GN-1 question (coxwelljon) 31. 11:15 AM - Re: GN-1 question (coxwelljon) 32. 11:23 AM - Re: New Corvair starter for sale (Dog67@aol.com) 33. 11:34 AM - Re: forming aluminum (Gary Boothe) 34. 12:33 PM - Re: New Corvair starter for sale (chase143(at)aol.com) 35. 12:56 PM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Barry Davis) 36. 01:04 PM - Re: Insurance question (coxwelljon) 37. 01:10 PM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Jeff Boatright) 38. 01:12 PM - Re: metal fatigue minimized by using 0000 dead soft aluminum (skellytown flyer) 39. 01:52 PM - just famous- not rich (Oscar Zuniga) 40. 01:54 PM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Rick Holland) 41. 02:46 PM - Re: Sun-N-Fun (Jack Phillips) 42. 02:50 PM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Jack Phillips) 43. 02:57 PM - Re: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. (skellytown flyer) 44. 03:02 PM - A-65 power (skellytown flyer) 45. 03:55 PM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (David Paule) 46. 04:53 PM - Corvair vs. Continental - long (Gary Boothe) 47. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: Insurance question (Ben Charvet) 48. 05:56 PM - Re: Corvair vs. Continental - long (walt) 49. 06:22 PM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Rick Holland) 50. 06:25 PM - Re: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. (taildrags) 51. 06:27 PM - Re: Corvair vs. Continental - long (gboothe5@comcast.net) 52. 06:31 PM - Re: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale (Rick Holland) 53. 06:54 PM - Re: Corvair vs. Continental - long (taildrags) 54. 07:06 PM - Re: Corvair vs. Continental - long (Jeff Boatright) 55. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Insurance question (Perry Rhoads) 56. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: Insurance question (Perry Rhoads) 57. 07:51 PM - Re: Corvair vs. Continental - long (Clif Dawson) 58. 11:48 PM - Supersonic Piet? (Coen van Wyk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale From: helspersew@aol.com All the engine choices AFTER the model A were compromises for Bernie.er,.. sorry..Bernard (Bernerd). :o) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:26 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sa le I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that Corvair, it was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no longer the case (the email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for sale for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-65, and is nearly half what I=99ve got in the Lycoming O-540 that I=99ll put in the RV-10). I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, so it wasn=99t worn out when we got it, alth ough it was 3 years later) and learned a great deal about the =9Crel iability=99 of both the engine and the car. I remember that the Cor vair was used in one of my machine design classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive system. But these airplanes are licensed as =9CExperimental=9D, so go for it. I just prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. The design requirements are totally different. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sa le I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is worki ng great so far. By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a mistak e by using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sa le Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? My low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sa le Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills west of you. Gardiner From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sa le Wow! An A65 with only 1505 Total Time? That=99s pretty incredible. So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds availabl e to purchase a flying Pietenpol? Congratulations, Ryan! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P href="http://www.matronics.com/cont ribution"http://www.matronics.com/co============ ===== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! 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-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Fabrication From: helspersew@aol.com I don't understand why everybody is flanging the firewall. The fabric only needs 1" of glue surface and does not need to wrap around at all. I glued a 1" wide piece of spruce vertically on the front of the fuse frame. This is what the fabric is glued to. The front cowl then overlaps this piece, and serves as security for the cowl hold-on screws. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. NX929DH -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Tue, Mar 30, 2010 8:13 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Fabrication John, I used 12 ga. Galvanized and a former to help make the bends (also my home made flanging pliers). Not as shiny as Mike C=99s, nor is it flight tested or fire tested. The sides and top are bent forward, while the bott om is bent back. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Fabrication Builders, I will beginning my steel sheet firewall soon, and am interested in builde rs comments on firewall construction, specifically, if people use a flange as a means of attaching the cowling. I have been planning on bending a fl ange, and I also wonder if the flange is needed for any reason at the bott om edge where the cowl droops down a little below the firewall. So, 1. Do people use the flange to attach the cowl along the rounded top edg e? 2. Is the flange needed at the bottom edge, or do people roll the bottom edge completely over, or maybe bend a short flange backward on a 45 degre e angle along the bottom, or omit the flange on the bottom? 3. What are good ways to attach the steel firewall sheet to the plywood firewall, and is fiberfrax recommended behind the steel sheet? by the way, Tony Bingiles recomends using .018" sheet. Also, I welded up a flanging tool out of a pair of vise grips to make thos e little waves that are needed when you bend a flange around a curved shap e. thanks all, john egan greenville, wi href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"ht tp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"ht tp://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:31 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: forming aluminum Gents - We'll be demonstrating this stuff again at Sun 'n Fun in the metal forming workshop in a couple weeks. Sometimes people bring their current part to work on, and we welcome them (although we obviously can't fit a custom part to a plane that's in North Carolina; we get asked to do just that at least a couple times during the week every year). We usually get a nice collection of tools lent to us by assorted vendors. Amongst these has been a power bead roller with a number of different die sets, including some that will form a wire-rolled edge. One of our guys made himself a new set of eyebrows for his J-5 there a few years back. If you're going to be there, bring the part. Even if you're not, we've got material to play with and we can work with you to show you how to fabricate your part when you get home. That being said: I've never annealed 2024. I HAVE annealed loads of 3003 with a torch, and it's something I demonstrate at SNF. I suppose we could try annealing 2024 and see what happens, but I'd rather spare the pain and suffering and talk to somebody who knows more sheet metal metallurgy than I do before wasting the time, if it's truly a waste. There is a formula used to calculate the minimum bending radius of a piece of sheet metal. Any radius smaller than that, and you're risking it cracking, as you found out. I've got it in my sheet metal books (low tech) but it can be found online with a simple search. When you're working metal like this, be careful about making abrupt marks on the metal surface (chisel marks, course sandpaper scratches, tooling marks). These can create stress risers and promote a failure starting in that area. Smooth marks (hammer blows) are ok. I bought a bead-roller from Harbor-Fright, but the dies still have machining marks on them. I'm not using them until I can polish them out, specifically for this reason. Ditto with the anvils on their English Wheel. You get what you pay for. Putting tape like you did over plier jaws, rivet sets, and other assorted tools that could make a mess is a good technique and is widely used. I usually use masking tape. Rubber tool-handle dip also works well and probably holds up better, but it's messy and takes time to dry. With my patience apparently being similar to others here, I usually just opt for the tape. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: skellytown flyer >Sent: Mar 30, 2010 7:11 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: forming aluminum > > >Well so much for patience- I couldn't stand to try it without annealing. so I annealed it some and started rolling the edge with pliers and tape over the jaws. it was coming along fairly good. but I decided to trim some and re-anneal and roll some more. that wasn't a good move.when I hit it with the torch again I got an instant crack about 1" long in the curve. guess there was enough stress that the weakening from the heat let er rip.Oh well-I have a pattern and enough metal to cut another one. maybe better luck tomorrow.this is tedious work and I am not a patient person. Raymond > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292414#292414 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:49 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Jack - The last time I pointed the same thing out in this forum a couple years back, I got blasted. Tread lightly. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Mar 30, 2010 9:26 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that Corvair, it was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no longer the case (the email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for sale for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-65, and is nearly half what Ive got in the Lycoming O-540 that Ill put in the RV-10). I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, so it wasnt worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and learned a great deal about the reliability of both the engine and the car. I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive system. But these airplanes are licensed as Experimental, so go for it. I just prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. The design requirements are totally different. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is working great so far. By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a mistake by using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? My low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills west of you. Gardiner From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Wow! An A65 with only 1505 Total Time? Thats pretty incredible. So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds available to purchase a flying Pietenpol? Congratulations, Ryan! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co================ Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too I may be incorrect on this but I swear that one of Bernard's experiments wa s to use a V-8 engine on one of his planes but that didn't make it any more right or wrong than using a Lambert, Continental, Corvair, or Subaru. I'm with Jack on reliability though of a Continental. It is all a perso nal choice but you takes yer chances. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:12 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too I don't think anyone currently flying with a Lambert radial engine should b e. They should sell said Lambert ASAP. To help them out, because that is th e type of guy I am, I would buy it from them like right now! =C2- Do not archive =C2- =C2- --- On Wed, 3/31/10, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too I may be incorrect on this but I swear that one of Bernard=99s experi ments was to use a V-8 engine on one of his planes but that didn=99t make it any more right or wrong than using a Lambert, Continental, Corvair, or Subaru. =C2- I=99m with Jack on reliability though of a Continental.=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- It is all a personal choice but you takes yer chances. =C2- Mike C. =C2- =C2- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:27 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too I suspect that engine reliability is a product of several variables, only one of which is the original design of the engine. How well is it maintained? How hard is it run? How frequently is it run? Was it assembled correctly? Were the right parts used / replaced? Is it properly set up for the task? Is the pre-flight thorough enough to catch a problem early? Granted a Lycoming or Continental was constructed specifically to be used on aircraft while an automobile engine was designed to be in an entirely different environment (multiple and frequent speed changes, dirtier air, LOTS of vibration, and on and on) but these things can be and are correctable. William Wynne has amassed a vast amount of data on the Corvair engine over the years and that has been incorporated into current engine technology to great effect. Besides, some of the older technology engines without all these refinements have gone over 1,000 hours trouble free. Newer ones have obviously snapped a couple of cranks for one reason or another but so have the aircraft engines if improperly used. Sure you have to assemble a Corvair yourself, or pay someone to do it for you, but let's remember that many of you folks are doing the same thing with your aircraft grade engines. If you don't do it right it is still going to bite you where it hurts. And YES, it probably will cost more to convert a Corvair with all the newest parts. (But what a gorgeous engine you have when it's all done.) My decision to go with a Corvair over the other choices was based, primarily, on available power. I have flown RC models for many years and have personally experienced the woes of trying to fly an underpowered aircraft. I don't want that feeling when my own "patutie" is in the plane. I plan to fly, at least once, from McPherson, KS to Mojave, CA and back which will require a certain amount of mountain flying. I don't particularly want to taxi all the way across the divide although that would certainly be a new type of experimental aviation. Also, did I happen to mention that I am not exactly a light weight? I also plan to carry a lot of passengers if I can find anyone with enough guts to fly with me. I will appreciate the extra margin of safety with regard to climb speed. Sorry! I'm now off the soapbox. This is me blushing. Tom Stinemetze Proud new owner of Ryan Mueller's Corvair project. N328X >>Im with Jack on reliability though of a Continental. It is all a personal choice but you takes yer chances. >>Mike C. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:26 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too P.S. to Ryan "The Check is in The Mail." Stinemetze N328X do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:04 AM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: forming aluminum Gary, Very nice bead work! You'll probably want to beef up the corner shown in the top picture where the mounting screw is, because it'll most likely crack from the relief radius to the mounting hole. David Paule > I am so ignorant about shete medal work that I don't even know how to > spell > it! But someone sent me the attached, "Bead Wire" and I was able to > produce > two cooling ears right. My first one was with .025 and I had a great deal > of > trouble making it bend, so I switched to .016 and the next two came out > great. > > Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:06 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Corvair starter for sale From: "chase143(at)aol.com" I have a brand new WW starter (just arrived), I have not even taken it out of the box. I think they go for $210 now and $25 shipping. Would like to get $200 and I'll pay to ship. Please let me know if interested, thanks. Steve chase143@aol.com And....no, I am not trying the fuel the Corvair/A65 debate! hahaha LOL :-) -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292510#292510 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too From: Ryan Mueller Ryan wonders to himself....does the just mean the check is in the mail, or do I need to keep an eye out for the postman dropping off a flaming bag of poo? ;) Thanks for the heads up Tom! Ryan do not archive On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 9:24 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > *P.S. to Ryan* > ** > *"The Check is in The Mail." * > ** > *Stinemetze* > *N328X* > ** > *do not archive* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:34 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. It weighs nothing and costs nothing and it hasn't broken yet. I hear the Model A uses the same kind of starter. Seriously, for us full-figured girls having more power would be GREAT. I've often fantasized about having an 0-200 someday. I can easily see why the power of the Corvair is SO popular plus lots of guys don't feel like hand propping and some need the electrical system to support radios and transponders to get in and out of controlled or under controlled airspace environments. I can especially see guys like Tom S. in Texas and Gary B. in CA having to fly in hot weather conditions. I can especially see Rick Holland needing the power at his high elevations in Colorado with that thin air. As much as I rag on the auto engines I can certainly see why it is a good option for lots of you guys. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:05 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bernard used an aluminum block V-8 engine too Well, considering that I don't actually have the Corvair yet either, the probably just means that I have a poor sense of humor. However, the "check is in the mail" part is factual and I think there is even money in the account to cover it. (come on tax refund) Tom do not archive >>> Ryan Mueller 3/31/2010 10:13 AM >>> Ryan wonders to himself....does the just mean the check is in the mail, or do I need to keep an eye out for the postman dropping off a flaming bag of poo? ;) Thanks for the heads up Tom! Ryan do not archive On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 9:24 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: P.S. to Ryan "The Check is in The Mail." Stinemetze N328X do not archive " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listtp://f orums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ============ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:10 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Initial cost has crept up (though there is no need to buy every Wynne gold-level part), but maintenance/overhaul costs are still pretty distinct. >I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that >Corvair, it was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no >longer the case (the email that started this thread was about a >Corvair PROJECT that was for sale for $6,000, which is four times as >much as I paid for my Continental A-65, and is nearly half what I've >got in the Lycoming O-540 that I'll put in the RV-10). I owned a >Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, so it wasn't >worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and learned >a great deal about the "reliability' of both the engine and the car. >I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design >classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive >system. > >But these airplanes are licensed as "Experimental", so go for it. I >just prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. >The design requirements are totally different. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC > -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:39 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun-N-Fun I've been faithfully flying off my Phase 1 time in hopes of bringing my Piet to Sun-N-Fun. Anybody else planning to bring theirs? Ben Charvet 16.6 hrs done ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale From: Ryan Mueller To play devil's advocate: the Corvair project for $6,000 is everything needed to assemble the Wynne based Corvair conversion, all parts reworked, overhauled, or new. How much did you have in your A-65 after the cost of acquisition, rework, new parts, etc? Just curious... ;) Ryan On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips wrot e: > I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that Corvair, > it was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no longer the case ( the > email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for s ale > for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-65 , > and is nearly half what I=92ve got in the Lycoming O-540 that I=92ll put in the > RV-10). I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, s o > it wasn=92t worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and > learned a great deal about the =93reliability=92 of both the engine and t he > car. I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design > classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive system .. > > > But these airplanes are licensed as =93Experimental=94, so go for it. I just > prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. The desi gn > requirements are totally different. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *airlion > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM > > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for > sale > > > I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is > working great so far. By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a > mistake by using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Jack Phillips > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM > *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for > sale > > Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? My > low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] *On Behalf Of *airlion > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for > sale > > > Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills west > of you. Gardiner > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Jack Phillips > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM > *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for > sale > > Wow! An A65 with only 1505 Total Time? That=92s pretty incredible. > > > So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds availab le > to purchase a flying Pietenpol? Congratulations, Ryan! > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P href="http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution">http://www.matronics.com/co============ ==== > * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:43 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electronic tach The westach is the tach on NX92GB. The one we use has the tach generator. The only problem I have seen with it is it is inacurate, when compared to a timing light/ tach (snap on brand). The higher the rpm's the more inacurate it is. We indicate 3100rpm static, which the timing light reads about 2750-2800 rpm. the westach is consistant just not accurate, in our case anyhow. I don't know if others have this problem or not. We replaced the tah generator once, and it seemed a little more accurate for the 1st few hrs, but then read higher rpm's as time went by. I am not sure if there are any adjustments on the tach gauge or not. On another note, I am missing out on the best flying weather in the past 4-5 months, due to a bad back, I look like a question mark. ??? I need to get healed up and back to work, and get started on some fly-in planning for our little Ohio Piet fly-in here in June. Shad ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:09 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: B-25 gathering in april To any of you around Ohio, dayton area, there is supposed to be a big staging of 20+ B-25's at urbana grimes airport on april 16-17. They are gathering for the Doolittle Radiers reunion in Dayton. They are scheduled to meet at Urbana, and fly out to dayton in a mass formation on the morning of Sat April 17. I am not sure what time exactly, but I have heard that this will be the biggest gathering of B-25's in 50 or so years. Hope to see some of you there if you can make it. Shad ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:31 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun-N-Fun Looks like 2 of the Big Piets will be there, Harold and Bruce. Frank and I are not going to have the hours flown off. Bummer! Barry Davis -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 12:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun-N-Fun --> I've been faithfully flying off my Phase 1 time in hopes of bringing my Piet to Sun-N-Fun. Anybody else planning to bring theirs? Ben Charvet 16.6 hrs done ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:24 AM PST US From: jeff wilson Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electronic tach Thanks everyone, - I've decided to go with a real cable driven Tach for the sake of the look. I want it to be antique looking all over. Even my A-65 comes from the late '40's. Using wire wheels too. Jeff Wilson GN-1 St. Louis, MO chapt 64 --- On Wed, 3/31/10, shad bell wrote: From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electronic tach The westach is the tach on NX92GB.- The one we use has the tach generator .- The only problem I have seen with it is it is inacurate, when compared to a timing light/ tach (snap on brand).- The higher the rpm's the more inacurate it is.- We indicate 3100rpm static, which the timing light read s about 2750-2800 rpm.- the westach is consistant just not accurate, in o ur case anyhow.- I don't know if others have this problem or not.- We r eplaced the tah generator once, and it seemed a little more accurate for th e 1st few hrs, but then read higher rpm's as time went by. I am not sure if there are any adjustments on the tach gauge or not. On another note, I am missing out on the best flying weather in the past 4-5 months, due to a bad back, I look like a question mark. ??? I need to get healed up and back to work, and get started on some fly-in planning for our little Ohio Piet fly -in here in June.- Shad - - - le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale From: Rick Holland The USSR built this bad boy with 16 Corvair engines. On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > To play devil's advocate: the Corvair project for $6,000 is everything > needed to assemble the Wynne based Corvair conversion, all parts reworked , > overhauled, or new. How much did you have in your A-65 after the cost of > acquisition, rework, new parts, etc? Just curious... - ;) > Ryan > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips > wrote: >> >> I think Bernard liked to experiment.- At the time he used that Corvair , it >> was far cheaper than an aircraft engine.- That is no longer the case ( the >> email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for sale >> for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-6 5, >> and is nearly half what I=92ve got in the Lycoming O-540 that I=92ll put in the >> RV-10).- I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966 , so >> it wasn=92t worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and >> learned a great deal about the =93reliability=92 of both the engine and the >> car.- I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design >> classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive syste m. >> >> >> >> But these airplanes are licensed as =93Experimental=94, so go for it.- I just >> prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars.- The d esign >> requirements are totally different. >> >> >> >> Jack Phillips >> >> NX899JP >> >> Raleigh, NC >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM >> >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for >> sale >> >> >> >> I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is >> working great so far.- By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a >> mistake by using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Jack Phillips >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for >> sale >> >> Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? >> My low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. >> >> >> >> Jack Phillips >> >> NX899JP >> >> Raleigh, NC >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion >> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for >> sale >> >> >> >> Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills wes t >> of you. Gardiner >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Jack Phillips >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM >> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for >> sale >> >> Wow!- An A65 with only 1505 Total Time?- That=92s pretty incredible. >> >> >> >> So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds >> available to purchase a flying Pietenpol?- Congratulations, Ryan! >> >> >> >> Jack Phillips >> >> NX899JP >> >> Raleigh, NC >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ co================ >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> http://forums.matronics.com >> >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:38 AM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun-N-Fun Ben, I am flying my time off too with 13 hours on the clock. I will be working in th woodshop carving a prop. Stop by and say hello. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: Ben Charvet Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 12:01:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun-N-Fun I've been faithfully flying off my Phase 1 time in hopes of bringing my Piet to Sun-N-Fun. Anybody else planning to bring theirs? Ben Charvet 16.6 hrs done ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. From: "taildrags" Mikee- In some jurisdictions, what you posted about being "for sale" would be considered as "solicitation" and you would be arrested by the vice squad ;o) I remember when I first got 41CC and there were some issues with the ignition harnesses. I was at work, Charlie was at the hangar attempting to start the engine and called me on the phone with the news that "the airplane needs a new starter". For a minute all I saw were dollar signs until the joke clicked in my head. Ever since I replaced the lower harness and all the plugs on the 65, it has started quite readily except when it's hot and I flood the thing. I like to hand-prop and I like the simplicity of no electrics. To me, it enhances the open cockpit experience. The 75 that is now on the airplane is even easier to start, what with dual impulse mags. -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292534#292534 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: forming aluminum From: "taildrags" I'll second what David suggests... beefing that area up. It's not a reflection on how smooth the engine might run (Corvairs being quite smooth), it's that the eyebrow leading edges are just inches aft of that prop, which delivers pulsed air past the eyebrows continuously. I've repaired several cracked pieces on 41CC's cooling eyebrows due to the propwash pulsations. Metal fatigue, plain and simple. -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292539#292539 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. From: Rick Holland Yes, the voice of reason. 7000 ft. runway elevation, 95 degrees F, density altitude 10,900. At that altitude the C-65 will be putting out around 43 HP. The Corvair or O-200 around 67 HP. Unfortunately the price of used O-200 has increased as the economy has gone to hell. The guy at Wentworth said the demand for these has increased because people are downsizing there expectations from that RV-7/8/9 with the O-360 (or similar, after they realized it was going to cost $70k +) to an LSA kit (or even better a Pietenpol). And Jack, we don't use that stinkin dual 90 degree cooling fan/belt on WW Corvair conversions. rick On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > > > It weighs nothing and costs nothing and it hasn't broken yet. I hear the Model > A uses the same kind of starter. > > Seriously, for us full-figured girls having more power would be GREAT. I've often > fantasized about having an 0-200 someday. > > I can easily see why the power of the Corvair is SO popular plus lots of guys don't > feel like hand propping and some need the electrical system to support radios and > transponders to get in and out of controlled or under controlled airspace environments. > I can especially see guys like Tom S. in Texas and Gary B. in CA having to fly in hot > weather conditions. > > I can especially see Rick Holland needing the power at his high elevations in Colorado > with that thin air. As much as I rag on the auto engines I can certainly see why it is > a good option for lots of you guys. > > Mike C. > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:29 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Actually, when you go back and look at some of the stuff Sikorsky designed and built (at age 29!) in pre-WWI Russia, it's really impressive, especially when compared to just about anything else flying at the time. Good thing he jumped ship to our side. >The USSR built this bad boy with 16 Corvair engines. -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:35 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: metal fatigue minimized by using 0000 dead soft aluminum I have had very minimal cracking issues with my hand-made Cub style cooling eyebrows/baffles since I used 0000 or dead soft .025" aluminum to make them. The dead soft resists metal fatigue very nicely and makes forming that reinforcement wire into the leading edge an easy event. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:18 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Intercom Lynn, I bought a FLIGHTECH ITC-401/1-ENRI from ACS. P.F. Beck also lauds this intercom in the most recent BPA newsletter. Coupled with mic muffs, it works quite well in N8031. Dan On 03/30/2010 07:30 PM, dknoll@cox.net wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: > > Someone was on the list earlier today describing the intercom that worked so well in his Piet. For some reason I cannot find that email. I need the name and part number of this intercom. > Thanks, > > Do not arch rive > > Lynn Knoll > Wichita > Piet/Vair in the works > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Insurance question From: "coxwelljon" dan.loegering(at)odayequi wrote: > Ran into an odd situation recently and wanted to see what others have done in the past, or are currently doing. > > I recently sold my house and am renting now, so I switched to a renters insurance policy. Since I was bored last night (the plane is still in storage for another week) I was reading through the policy, and came across the statement that "aircraft and aircraft parts are not covered." Huh? > > Spoke to my agent today and he had never come across this either, did some research and they do not cover aircraft or parts on ANY of their policies. > > So my question is this - what, if anything, did you do to provide coverage for your projects while they were in the project stage? I am simply looking to cover my costs of materials in the event of theft, fire, etc... Is this something that I should not worry about (I am normally a trusting individual, but the new house is close to a high school and the garage is located in the alley - apparently there have been issues in the past with some of the garages being used as gathering places by the students) One neighbor suggested blocking the windows and getting a bigger lock... I may not go to that extreme (it isn't THAT bad of a neighborhood...) but I will definitely be putting in a new lock. > > It will be nice to get back to building though - time to make more sawdust and grind some metal! > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND Dan, I would check into a special policy. Your greatest risk may not be from vandalism. I had a good friend who lived in a great timber frame house, attached workshop, and totally off the grid. He was building an Rans from a kit. They called for forming the tank by filling it full of fuel and letting sit and take shape. The tank was closed yet fumes leaked across the floor to a heater on the other side of the shop. The whole thing went up including the house and was a total loss. Fortunately there was no loss of human life. Insurance paid nothing on the airplane and would not even cover a PV array because it was next to the house and not attached exept by wiring. Rans gave him a good deal on a new kit but the fire took several years out of his life while he rebuilt his house. He is now starting again on the Rans. It has made me think both about insurance and what I do in the shop. Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292548#292548 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 question From: "coxwelljon" luther b green wrote: > Mine are approx. 40" from the backrest and attached to the front seat cross > member. I can send you a picture if you want. > Bryan Green > Elgin SC > --- Bryan, I tried to respond to your email but it comes back with address unknown. I would like to see some pictures and since you are re-building I would like to know what issues you are running into. Mine has never flown but I an doing plenty of re-building of someone else's work. I almost think starting from scratch is easier. I think mine is sound, but the original builders (2 or 3) were not as particular as I would like. Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292550#292550 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 question From: "coxwelljon" Tom Bernie wrote: > I moved mine far enough forward for my legs. Don't trust the CAD plans. > Tom Bernie > N666TB > Gloucester Mass > > Tom, I am working from the hand drawn plans but there are lots of mistakes there as well. I purchased a set of original Piet plans as a reference which I encourage anyone building a GN-1 to do. > > BTW I found a link to your project photo documentation and read through your past posting on the forum. Looking at your photos was really helpful and your posting indicated that we are addressing some issues in similar ways. > > Jon Coxwell > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292552#292552 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:43 AM PST US From: Dog67@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Corvair starter for sale Steve - is it a front mounted starter? If so - count me in for it. Cheers jon In a message dated 3/31/2010 8:56:29 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, chase143@aol.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "chase143(at)aol.com" I have a brand new WW starter (just arrived), I have not even taken it out of the box. I think they go for $210 now and $25 shipping. Would like to get $200 and I'll pay to ship. Please let me know if interested, thanks. Steve chase143@aol.com And....no, I am not trying the fuel the Corvair/A65 debate! hahaha LOL :-) -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292510#292510 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:43 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: forming aluminum Thanks, David! That picture was taken while testing for fit, and adding some other stuff on the back. Since then I have added more support. In retrospect, using dead soft, as Mike C advises, would be a good idea.....lots of time to do that when needed. Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Paule Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: forming aluminum Gary, Very nice bead work! You'll probably want to beef up the corner shown in the top picture where the mounting screw is, because it'll most likely crack from the relief radius to the mounting hole. David Paule > I am so ignorant about shete medal work that I don't even know how to > spell > it! But someone sent me the attached, "Bead Wire" and I was able to > produce > two cooling ears right. My first one was with .025 and I had a great deal > of > trouble making it bend, so I switched to .016 and the next two came out > great. > > Gary Boothe ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Corvair starter for sale From: "chase143(at)aol.com" Jon, Yes, I believe it is. I will double check tonight, and save it for you if you want it. I'll drop me a note off-line. Thanks, Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292560#292560 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:18 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale What Bad Boy? Did you attach a pic of something? BED -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Actually, when you go back and look at some of the stuff Sikorsky designed and built (at age 29!) in pre-WWI Russia, it's really impressive, especially when compared to just about anything else flying at the time. Good thing he jumped ship to our side. >The USSR built this bad boy with 16 Corvair engines. -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Insurance question From: "coxwelljon" Dan, Your question prompted me to do a little more research with my State Farm Agent and in fact I found that I do not have insurance that covers my GN-1 while I am building it. Nor can I get it through State Farm. I then went to the EAA website and ended up making a call to their insurance program. Not a lot of help there either for those of us that are building from plans. I did find out that the the minimum hull insurance while building is going to be around $500 per year plus or minus. That kind of coverage will go up to $40,000 and is the minimum. (That would be a real nice Piet or GN-1). I asked the question about liability insurance and that is where things get sticky for tail draggers. They not only want tailwheel time which is understandable, but want some time in the same model. I have 100 hours of tail wheel and 1700 hours total, but none in a GN-1 or a Piet. The EAA insurance agent told me I should be thinking about getting some more tail wheel time and try real hard to get GN-1 time before my airplane is ready to fly. This is just a heads up. Thanks Dan for raising this question. Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292561#292561 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:12 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Previous post from ?? had some pix. > >What Bad Boy? Did you attach a pic of something? >BED > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >Boatright >Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 1:34 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > >Actually, when you go back and look at some of the stuff Sikorsky designed >and built (at age 29!) in pre-WWI Russia, it's really impressive, especially >when compared to just about anything else flying at the time. Good thing he >jumped ship to our side. > > >>The USSR built this bad boy with 16 Corvair engines. > > >-- > >Jeff Boatright >"Now let's think about this..." -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: metal fatigue minimized by using 0000 dead soft aluminum From: "skellytown flyer" Thanks Michael. I am going to cut another piece and I am trying to decide whether to use the same .025- 2024T3 or switch to some soft aluminum I have on hand that is about .035. I have no intention of making a special order for more.and I don't think the thickness difference will amount to much more than a half pound. I'm only talking bout around 2 1/2 sq. ft. here if I use the thin I think I'll forget the rolled up edge and just cut a little more clearance and use some rubber edge trim over it.I need to get off high center and keep this project moving along while I have the time at home.and I don't need a complete roll around wire-just an up turned lip would help stiffen the area and give extra clearance if the engine shifts enough.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292566#292566 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:42 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: just famous- not rich Well, yippee-! A friend here at work passed along his copy of the April/May 2010 "Air & Space Smithsonian" magazine and I'm quoted in the magazine. Harrumph... okay, so my quote is just a tiny part of a really nifty article called "The Pride of Cherry Grove", all about Piets. Really nice story and pix, all the usual suspects. Good job! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale From: Rick Holland Yea, check this out Barry. rick On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Barry Davis wrote: > > What Bad Boy? Did you attach a pic of something? > BED > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Boatright > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 1:34 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for s ale > > > Actually, when you go back and look at some of the stuff Sikorsky designe d > and built (at age 29!) in pre-WWI Russia, it's really impressive, especia lly > when compared to just about anything else flying at the time. Good thing he > jumped ship to our side. > > >>The USSR built this bad boy with 16 Corvair engines. > > > -- > > Jeff Boatright > "Now let's think about this..." > > =========== =========== =========== alle, List Admin. =========== > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:19 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun-N-Fun I'm planning to fly mine down. I won't be able to get there until Friday morning, though. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 12:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun-N-Fun I've been faithfully flying off my Phase 1 time in hopes of bringing my Piet to Sun-N-Fun. Anybody else planning to bring theirs? Ben Charvet 16.6 hrs done ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:12 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale I have a total of $7,000 in my A-65, but that included NEW Millenium Cylinders and pistons, which was $3400 of that total. I also sent the crankcasr out to Divco for overhauling, and the crankshaft and connecting rods were overhauled by Aircraft Specialties. I bought a new camshaft, and new Slick magnetos. I did the overhaul myself, under the supervision of an A&P/IA. I could have done it much cheaper, but I like reliability, which is what started this thread. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale To play devil's advocate: the Corvair project for $6,000 is everything needed to assemble the Wynne based Corvair conversion, all parts reworked, overhauled, or new. How much did you have in your A-65 after the cost of acquisition, rework, new parts, etc? Just curious... ;) Ryan On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that Corvair, it was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no longer the case (the email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for sale for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-65, and is nearly half what I've got in the Lycoming O-540 that I'll put in the RV-10). I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, so it wasn't worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and learned a great deal about the "reliability' of both the engine and the car. I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive system. But these airplanes are licensed as "Experimental", so go for it. I just prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. The design requirements are totally different. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is working great so far. By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a mistake by using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner _____ From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? My low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills west of you. Gardiner _____ From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Wow! An A65 with only 1505 Total Time? That's pretty incredible. So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds available to purchase a flying Pietenpol? Congratulations, Ryan! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co=== ============ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. From: "skellytown flyer" Did I not read once that an O-200 crank would fit some of the older Continentals? if so maybe you could find one that is too undersized to make the yellow tag specs but still cleaned up OK. I think it is common for airboat engines so they should be out there.maybe you just need a little more stroke? not wanting to get personal here. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292577#292577 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:16 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 power From: "skellytown flyer" as usual I probably popped off about something I know nothing about. but this fellow seems to cover a lot of things on engine mods.sounds like the old A-65 is kinda light in places but he gives some tips. http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#mod_a65 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292578#292578 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:40 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Great fakes! Nice staging, too. Who did them? David Paule > The USSR built this bad boy with 16 Corvair engines. ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:47 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. Continental - long Jack (et al), Here is my debate: You, and others, have said things that have caused me to pause and consider my decisions, and sometimes change my path. As always, you are the epitome of common sense and good judgment..or are you? I know that you know spam can drivers that look at you in your little home-made airplane (exquisite as it is, even with its "reliable" engine) and say, if not to you at least to themselves, "I would/could never do that." "You're going to fly it where? To Brodhead?" Or, how about the guys who say flying a taildragger is too dangerous! And all of those spam can drivers know ground pounders who say, "You're a pilot? You fly a Cessna/Piper/Beech? Isn't that scary? I could never do that!" The great mathematician, Augusta De Morgan, said: "Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em, And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum. And the great fleas themselves, in turn, have greater fleas to go on, While these again have greater still, and greater still, and so on." So, everyone has their limits. When we make the decision to build an experimental airplane, we set ourselves on a less traveled path.but that's just the beginning. Consider the individual who decides: To build an airplane, To build a wood & fabric airplane, To build a wood & fabric airplane designed in 1929, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, and fir spars, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, with fir spars, and wooden struts, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, with fir spars, wooden struts, and a non-A/C engine, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, with fir spars, wooden struts, a non-A/C engine, with a home-made prop, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, with fir spars, wooden struts, a non-A/C engine, a home-made prop, painted with house paint instead of dope, "ad infinitum.." At which point would most builders stop.at which point would you stop? My ex-father-in-law, insurance agent, thought I was nuts to start flying in the first place (age 17)! Am I nuts? Maybe. Nuts about flying. Am I suicidal? Definitely not! I fully respect your opinion about A/C engines if for no other reason than you are vastly more experienced than I. But this project has been a series of path choices for me, and, for some reason, I keep choosing the less-traveled path. In the end, I expect that I will have many, many taxi hours and ground runs of my "crank-breaking" Corvair, not that that will expose any/all problems, but the actual take-off should be a non-event. For me, the choice of using a Corvair was a merely a result of choosing a less-traveled path.having more hp, a smoother less expensive engine, were just fortunate by-products. Meeting William Wynne was a God-send! If you know a risk management expert, please give him my contact info! ..or, are we ALL beyond risk management? Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:49 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale I have a total of $7,000 in my A-65, but that included NEW Millenium Cylinders and pistons, which was $3400 of that total. I also sent the crankcasr out to Divco for overhauling, and the crankshaft and connecting rods were overhauled by Aircraft Specialties. I bought a new camshaft, and new Slick magnetos. I did the overhaul myself, under the supervision of an A&P/IA. I could have done it much cheaper, but I like reliability, which is what started this thread. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale To play devil's advocate: the Corvair project for $6,000 is everything needed to assemble the Wynne based Corvair conversion, all parts reworked, overhauled, or new. How much did you have in your A-65 after the cost of acquisition, rework, new parts, etc? Just curious... ;) Ryan On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that Corvair, it was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no longer the case (the email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for sale for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-65, and is nearly half what I've got in the Lycoming O-540 that I'll put in the RV-10). I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, so it wasn't worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and learned a great deal about the "reliability' of both the engine and the car. I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive system. But these airplanes are licensed as "Experimental", so go for it. I just prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. The design requirements are totally different. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is working great so far. By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a mistake by using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner _____ From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? My low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills west of you. Gardiner _____ From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Wow! An A65 with only 1505 Total Time? That's pretty incredible. So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds available to purchase a flying Pietenpol? Congratulations, Ryan! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co=== ============ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:57 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Insurance question I ran into the same problem with the EAA insurance. If you have recent tailwheel time in a similar aircraft and go through the EAA Flight advisor program you can probably get them to insure your first flight. They did for me. Their original quote wanted 5 or 10 hours in type. One other question to be asking.. will you insure a Corvair powered Piet/GN-1? Four years ago neither Avemco nor the EAA would. Thats one of the reasons I ended up with a Continental. Ben Charvet On 3/31/2010 4:04 PM, coxwelljon wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "coxwelljon" > > > I asked the question about liability insurance and that is where things get sticky for tail draggers. They not only want tailwheel time which is understandable, but want some time in the same model. I have 100 hours of tail wheel and 1700 hours total, but none in a GN-1 or a Piet. The EAA insurance agent told me I should be thinking about getting some more tail wheel time and try real hard to get GN-1 time before my airplane is ready to fly. This is just a heads up. Thanks Dan for raising this question. > > Jon Coxwell > > -------- > Jon Coxwell > GN-1 Builder > Recycle and preserve the planet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292561#292561 > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:56 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. Continental - long I kind of lost the point,,,what is your point? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. Continental - long Jack (et al), Here is my debate: You, and others, have said things that have caused me to pause and consider my decisions, and sometimes change my path. As always, you are the epitome of common sense and good judgment..or are you? I know that you know spam can drivers that look at you in your little home-made airplane (exquisite as it is, even with its "reliable" engine) and say, if not to you at least to themselves, "I would/could never do that." "You're going to fly it where? To Brodhead?" Or, how about the guys who say flying a taildragger is too dangerous! And all of those spam can drivers know ground pounders who say, "You're a pilot? You fly a Cessna/Piper/Beech? Isn't that scary? I could never do that!" The great mathematician, Augusta De Morgan, said: "Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em, And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum. And the great fleas themselves, in turn, have greater fleas to go on, While these again have greater still, and greater still, and so on." So, everyone has their limits. When we make the decision to build an experimental airplane, we set ourselves on a less traveled path.but that's just the beginning. Consider the individual who decides: To build an airplane, To build a wood & fabric airplane, To build a wood & fabric airplane designed in 1929, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, and fir spars, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, with fir spars, and wooden struts, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, with fir spars, wooden struts, and a non-A/C engine, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, with fir spars, wooden struts, a non-A/C engine, with a home-made prop, To build a wood & fabric airplane, designed in 1929, with Poplar instead of A/C Spruce, with fir spars, wooden struts, a non-A/C engine, a home-made prop, painted with house paint instead of dope, "ad infinitum.." At which point would most builders stop.at which point would you stop? My ex-father-in-law, insurance agent, thought I was nuts to start flying in the first place (age 17)! Am I nuts? Maybe. Nuts about flying. Am I suicidal? Definitely not! I fully respect your opinion about A/C engines if for no other reason than you are vastly more experienced than I. But this project has been a series of path choices for me, and, for some reason, I keep choosing the less-traveled path. In the end, I expect that I will have many, many taxi hours and ground runs of my "crank-breaking" Corvair, not that that will expose any/all problems, but the actual take-off should be a non-event. For me, the choice of using a Corvair was a merely a result of choosing a less-traveled path.having more hp, a smoother less expensive engine, were just fortunate by-products. Meeting William Wynne was a God-send! If you know a risk management expert, please give him my contact info! ..or, are we ALL beyond risk management? Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:49 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale I have a total of $7,000 in my A-65, but that included NEW Millenium Cylinders and pistons, which was $3400 of that total. I also sent the crankcasr out to Divco for overhauling, and the crankshaft and connecting rods were overhauled by Aircraft Specialties. I bought a new camshaft, and new Slick magnetos. I did the overhaul myself, under the supervision of an A&P/IA. I could have done it much cheaper, but I like reliability, which is what started this thread. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:57 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale To play devil's advocate: the Corvair project for $6,000 is everything needed to assemble the Wynne based Corvair conversion, all parts reworked, overhauled, or new. How much did you have in your A-65 after the cost of acquisition, rework, new parts, etc? Just curious... ;) Ryan On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that Corvair, it was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no longer the case (the email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for sale for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-65, and is nearly half what I've got in the Lycoming O-540 that I'll put in the RV-10). I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, so it wasn't worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and learned a great deal about the "reliability' of both the engine and the car. I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive system. But these airplanes are licensed as "Experimental", so go for it. I just prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. The design requirements are totally different. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is working great so far. By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a mistake by using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? My low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills west of you. Gardiner ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale Wow! An A65 with only 1505 Total Time? That's pretty incredible. So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds available to purchase a flying Pietenpol? Congratulations, Ryan! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c o================= http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale From: Rick Holland How much to do the same with an O-200? (To compare apples to apples) rick On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > I have a total of $7,000 in my A-65, but that included NEW Millenium > Cylinders and pistons, which was $3400 of that total. I also sent the > crankcasr out to Divco for overhauling, and the crankshaft and connecting > rods were overhauled by Aircraft Specialties. I bought a new camshaft, and > new Slick magnetos. I did the overhaul myself, under the supervision of an > A&P/IA. I could have done it much cheaper, but I like reliability, which is > what started this thread. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:57 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > > To play devil's advocate: the Corvair project for $6,000 is everything > needed to assemble the Wynne based Corvair conversion, all parts reworked, > overhauled, or new. How much did you have in your A-65 after the cost of > acquisition, rework, new parts, etc? Just curious... ;) > > > Ryan > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips > wrote: > > I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that Corvair, it > was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no longer the case (the > email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for sale > for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-65, > and is nearly half what Ive got in the Lycoming O-540 that Ill put in the > RV-10). I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, so > it wasnt worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and > learned a great deal about the reliability of both the engine and the > car. I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design > classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive system. > > > But these airplanes are licensed as Experimental, so go for it. I just > prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. The design > requirements are totally different. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > > I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is working > great so far. By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a mistake by > using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner > > > ________________________________ > > From: Jack Phillips > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? My > low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > > Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills west of > you. Gardiner > > > ________________________________ > > From: Jack Phillips > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > Wow! An A65 with only 1505 Total Time? Thats pretty incredible. > > > So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds available > to purchase a flying Pietenpol? Congratulations, Ryan! > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co================ > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: used, good condition A-65 starter for sale. From: "taildrags" Raymond: that's the C-series Continentals, not the A-series. The C-series have a longer stroke and different cases, thus the ability to fit a starter and other accessories to them as compared with the A-series, which are rare as hen's teeth with anything in the way of accessory drives from the factory. The -8 configuration is most common in "our" small Continentals on these airplanes, whereas the later C-series have many more common configurations with starters, generators, vacuum pumps, and other stuff. -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292592#292592 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. Continental - long From: gboothe5@comcast.net The point being - everyone has their own level of accep tance of what is "reliable." I wish to re-iterate that Jack, Mike C, William Wynne a nd others have helped me to balance my frugal approach to building with an overall view of practicality and safe ty. Gary Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. Continental - long This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale From: Rick Holland Here is an O-200 ready to fly on the Cessna newsgroup for $16000, can build 3 Corvairs for that price. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re: Engine CONTINENTAL O-200-A Have O-200A All new internal parts, cylinders,mags, etc etc, no expense spared 0 SMOH Asking $16,000 obo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > I have a total of $7,000 in my A-65, but that included NEW Millenium > Cylinders and pistons, which was $3400 of that total. I also sent the > crankcasr out to Divco for overhauling, and the crankshaft and connecting > rods were overhauled by Aircraft Specialties. I bought a new camshaft, and > new Slick magnetos. I did the overhaul myself, under the supervision of an > A&P/IA. I could have done it much cheaper, but I like reliability, which is > what started this thread. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:57 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > > To play devil's advocate: the Corvair project for $6,000 is everything > needed to assemble the Wynne based Corvair conversion, all parts reworked, > overhauled, or new. How much did you have in your A-65 after the cost of > acquisition, rework, new parts, etc? Just curious... ;) > > > Ryan > > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips > wrote: > > I think Bernard liked to experiment. At the time he used that Corvair, it > was far cheaper than an aircraft engine. That is no longer the case (the > email that started this thread was about a Corvair PROJECT that was for sale > for $6,000, which is four times as much as I paid for my Continental A-65, > and is nearly half what Ive got in the Lycoming O-540 that Ill put in the > RV-10). I owned a Corvair for several years (we bought it new in 1966, so > it wasnt worn out when we got it, although it was 3 years later) and > learned a great deal about the reliability of both the engine and the > car. I remember that the Corvair was used in one of my machine design > classes in college as an example of how NOT to design a belt-drive system. > > > But these airplanes are licensed as Experimental, so go for it. I just > prefer aircraft engines for aircraft, and car engines for cars. The design > requirements are totally different. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:50 PM > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > > I plan to Jack. I have 12 hours on the fly off now and everything is working > great so far. By the way, Are you suggesting that Bernie made a mistake by > using the corvair as an alternative engine? Cheers, Gardiner > > > ________________________________ > > From: Jack Phillips > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 8:33:01 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > Does that mean you are going to fly it to Brodhead this year, Gardiner? My > low power but utterly reliable Continental has made the trip 3 times now. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of airlion > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:04 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > > Well Jack, at least my boat anchor will get me over those high hills west of > you. Gardiner > > > ________________________________ > > From: Jack Phillips > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 12:21:01 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: William Wynne Corvair conversion parts for sale > > Wow! An A65 with only 1505 Total Time? Thats pretty incredible. > > > So having sold that Chevrolet boat-anchor you now have some funds available > to purchase a flying Pietenpol? Congratulations, Ryan! > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co================ > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair vs. Continental - long From: "taildrags" Might as well toss in my two cents here since I just spent at least as much as Jack did to bring a core A75 to essentially zero time, and to my mind "factory new" specs. I also have a Corvair engine on my workbench, slowly getting built up to power a future Piet-like project. I've spent probably a couple of thousand $$ on the Corvair and will spend maybe another couple on it before it runs, so in the end I'll have just about as much money in one as in the other. The Corvair is about 20 years newer than the Continental and will develop 25% more takeoff power for the same dollars. I can buy common overhaul parts for the Corvair several blocks from my house at any one of a number of auto parts houses, but I can't say the same for my Continental. I'm lucky, living in a very strong military town where there is an active aircraft community, that I can actually buy AN hardware and aircraft parts in town but I cannot go to AutoZone and buy a set of valve springs, rockers, piston rings, bearings, spark plugs, plug wires, or other common parts for the A75. I can't order them there and nobody would know what they are. Granted, I have never had the need to do this but it's nice to know I can find common parts for the Corvair from Bar Harbor to Brownsville, San Francisco to Ft. Myers, and auto repair shops can work on many aspects of them whereas I would NEVER take ANY part of my Continental engine to an auto repair shop. The Corvair is a more modern engine than the Continental in the way it was designed, the ignition, the type of fuel it is designed to burn, the operating RPM, the metallurgy. It is very tolerant of high temperatures and insufficient care and will very likely keep the airplane flying with one or maybe even two cylinders dead. When it's together and running as designed, it is inherently a very smooth and powerful engine and tends to operate without the cooling problems that are prevalent in many other auto engine conversions. It has successfully flown in many airframes, fast and slow, over a very good period of years. I like the Corvair but I fly behind a Continental. Why? Because I needed to fly more than I wanted to spend another few years tinkering. In effect I have the best of both worlds... I fly my Continental-powered Piet while building up and tinkering with the Corvair. One of these days, I might just take to the air in some sort of Corvair-powered Pietenpol offspring. Admittedly, I am more of a builder than I am a flyer, although I like both. I just can't imagine bolting together a kit, registering it, going out and flying, and never spending any time in the shop working on an airplane or engine. Not to seem trite here, but "it's all good" and there are no one-size-fits-all engines in experimental aviation. Less filling, more taste- bring on the next round. And finally... as with women, so with engines. All have their endearing traits and any of them can leave you confused, angry, and hurt but on a good day, they are oh-so-sweet, all of them! -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292601#292601 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:12 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. Continental - long Yeah, my frugal nature needs balancing, too. One time when discussing how to fix something on the Piet, after trying to get the correct and acceptable method through my head after a dozen attempts, my friend and local A&P finally blurted out in exasperation, "Jeff, at what point does a sense of self-preservation kick in for you?!" >The point being - everyone has their own level of acceptance of what >is "reliable." > >I wish to re-iterate that Jack, Mike C, William Wynne and others >have helped me to balance my frugal approach to building with an >overall view of practicality and safety. > >Gary -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:23 PM PST US From: "Perry Rhoads" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Insurance question You can buy insurance to cover your project while under construction. Start with the EAA program and research it from there. Keep in mind your homeowners policy was never meant to cover anything but your home and contents. Your premium is based on just that exposure. Cars, boats, motorcycles, and yes airplanes are not part of the contract. All of those require separate coverage that is tailored to the exposure. Perry Rhoads(yup, I'm an insurance agent) Piet N12939 ----- Original Message ----- From: "coxwelljon" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 12:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Insurance question > > > > dan.loegering(at)odayequi wrote: >> Ran into an odd situation recently and wanted to see what others have >> done in the past, or are currently doing. >> >> I recently sold my house and am renting now, so I switched to a renters >> insurance policy. Since I was bored last night (the plane is still in >> storage for another week) I was reading through the policy, and came >> across the statement that "aircraft and aircraft parts are not covered." >> Huh? >> >> Spoke to my agent today and he had never come across this either, did >> some research and they do not cover aircraft or parts on ANY of their >> policies. >> >> So my question is this - what, if anything, did you do to provide >> coverage for your projects while they were in the project stage? I am >> simply looking to cover my costs of materials in the event of theft, >> fire, etc... Is this something that I should not worry about (I am >> normally a trusting individual, but the new house is close to a high >> school and the garage is located in the alley - apparently there have >> been issues in the past with some of the garages being used as gathering >> places by the students) One neighbor suggested blocking the windows and >> getting a bigger lock... I may not go to that extreme (it isn't THAT bad >> of a neighborhood...) but I will definitely be putting in a new lock. >> >> It will be nice to get back to building though - time to make more >> sawdust and grind some metal! >> >> Dan Loegering >> Fargo, ND > > > Dan, > > I would check into a special policy. Your greatest risk may not be from > vandalism. I had a good friend who lived in a great timber frame house, > attached workshop, and totally off the grid. He was building an Rans > from a kit. They called for forming the tank by filling it full of fuel > and letting sit and take shape. The tank was closed yet fumes leaked > across the floor to a heater on the other side of the shop. The whole > thing went up including the house and was a total loss. Fortunately there > was no loss of human life. Insurance paid nothing on the airplane and > would not even cover a PV array because it was next to the house and not > attached exept by wiring. Rans gave him a good deal on a new kit but the > fire took several years out of his life while he rebuilt his house. He is > now starting again on the Rans. It has made me think both about insurance > and what I do in the shop. > > Jon Coxwell > > -------- > Jon Coxwell > GN-1 Builder > Recycle and preserve the planet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292548#292548 > > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:57 PM PST US From: "Perry Rhoads" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Insurance question Try Jenny at NationAir(they have a website) in St. Louis. I insured N12939 with her for a reasonable amount without time in type, nor any dual required. The only requirement was one hour of solo Piet time before taking passengers. Perry Rhoads Piet N12939 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Charvet" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Insurance question > > I ran into the same problem with the EAA insurance. If you have recent > tailwheel time in a similar aircraft and go through the EAA Flight advisor > program you can probably get them to insure your first flight. They did > for me. Their original quote wanted 5 or 10 hours in type. One other > question to be asking.. will you insure a Corvair powered Piet/GN-1? Four > years ago neither Avemco nor the EAA would. Thats one of the reasons I > ended up with a Continental. > > Ben Charvet > > > On 3/31/2010 4:04 PM, coxwelljon wrote: >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: >> "coxwelljon" >> >> >> I asked the question about liability insurance and that is where things >> get sticky for tail draggers. They not only want tailwheel time which is >> understandable, but want some time in the same model. I have 100 hours >> of tail wheel and 1700 hours total, but none in a GN-1 or a Piet. The >> EAA insurance agent told me I should be thinking about getting some more >> tail wheel time and try real hard to get GN-1 time before my airplane is >> ready to fly. This is just a heads up. Thanks Dan for raising this >> question. >> >> Jon Coxwell >> >> -------- >> Jon Coxwell >> GN-1 Builder >> Recycle and preserve the planet >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292561#292561 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:28 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. Continental - long Only if you plan on sitting in a lawn chair under a bunch of helium filled weather baloons with a BB gun to shoot them out one at a time for landing purposes! :-) http://www.markbarry.com/lawnchairman.html are we ALL beyond risk management? Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Supersonic Piet? From: Coen van Wyk Dear List members, After years of lurking I am ready to begin building! The problem has always been the choice of engine, but now I have it! At the Air Museum there is an old engine from a Mirage 3!!! Last night I pored over my copies from a friend's Flying and Gliding manual, and with some napkins from KFC roughed out the design. Obviously it was meant to be. Of course a few little tweaks will be needed, but after all spruce is a form of carbon fibre. The wing root gaps will prevent spanwise shock waves at mach 1, and if the wings are swept a little, say 45 degrees, she should remain stable up to the thermal thicket at Mach 3. The first stage conpressor will allow pressurisation of the cockpit, and only two questions remain: How to route the tailwheel cables around the tailpipe, and what landing gear to use? I like the Jenny style, but maybe I should consider the new monowheel undercarriage as proposed by some of the engineers on the list recently? Perhaps tomorrow it will look different.... Happy first of April! Coen van WYk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.