---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/04/10: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:41 AM - Re: reliability and safety/ risks (tkreiner) 2. 06:42 AM - Re: Phase 1 update NX866BC (Frank Metcalfe) 3. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: Windscreen (David Paule) 4. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Windscreen (Gary Boothe) 5. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Re: Windscreen (Jim) 6. 01:02 PM - Re: Phase 1 update NX866BC (Tim Willis) 7. 01:51 PM - Re: Phase 1 update NX866BC (Ben Charvet) 8. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Windscreen (David Paule) 9. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Corvair oil (Rick Holland) 10. 03:43 PM - Douwe's piet...:( (Douwe Blumberg) 11. 04:19 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (airlion) 12. 04:19 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (Gary Boothe) 13. 04:32 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (David Paule) 14. 04:56 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (Jack Phillips) 15. 06:14 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (bryan green) 16. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: Corvair oil (shad bell) 17. 06:24 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (Ben Charvet) 18. 06:51 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (Jack) 19. 07:18 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (Jeff Boatright) 20. 07:21 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (Mike Townsley) 21. 07:32 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (Tim Willis) 22. 08:16 PM - Re: Re: Corvair oil (Rick Holland) 23. 08:39 PM - Re: Douwe's piet...:( (John Recine) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: reliability and safety/ risks From: "tkreiner" Guys. In God we Trust. EVERYTHING ELSE is on the check list. If you update and/ or use your checklist, you'll NEVER overlook the fuel selector again. Just my $ .02 worth. -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=292932#292932 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:43 AM PST US From: Frank Metcalfe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 update NX866BC Two of the Big Piets are leaving Saturday the 10th. The other two=0A-just dont have the time flown off yet We are hoping all four make it to Brodhea d this year Look us up and park with us !!=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________ ___________=0AFrom: Ben Charvet =0ATo: Pietenpol li st =0ASent: Fri, April 2, 2010 6:49:51 PM=0AS ubject: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 update NX866BC=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List mess age posted by: Ben Charvet =0A=0AToday I loaded the Piet up to gross wt of 1150 lbs with 200 lbs strapped to the front seat. - I was able to find enough scrap lead and iron to fit into a sturdy canv as tool bag. I could tell a difference in the airplane just pushing it out of the hangar.- The landing gear bungees were even stretched out about 1/ 4 in more than with an empty front seat.- I was as nervous as the first f light.- Taxi and takeoff were uneventful, although I used more runway lif ting off.- I rechecked my best climb speed, and was still able to get 400 FPM at 60 MPH, 350 FPM at 65 mph.- Sixty was my best rate of climb with just me in it too.- I have a Sensenich CK 72X40 climb prop, and it is wor king out well I guess.- Stalls were as uneventful as before and happened at 36 mph, about what I expected.- I need to add a little bit of right th rust to the motor mount, as I'm still needing to hold some right rudder in level flight (don't need any rudder power off).- The weather in Florida has been beautiful this week=0A=0AI've been flying my butt off trying to make it to Sun-N-Fun, but I have 20 hours on it now, and all the important flight testing is done.- I'm still not sure what days I will be there.- The Pres is planning a trip to Kennedy Space Center April 15 (Th urs), and if he does that will shut down my airport.- Friday is looking g ood to me.- What days are the Big Piets going to be there?- It would be great if we could get 4 Piets lined up in Homebuilders Corner.=0A=0ABen Ch =========================0A ==================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:45 AM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Windscreen Gary, Looks like you installed snaps on the inside of the windshield. What are they for? David Paule ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:58 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Windscreen Those are fibered lock nuts, but not the final fit. The screws are SS Hex Head #6. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Paule Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 8:11 AM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Windscreen Gary, Looks like you installed snaps on the inside of the windshield. What are they for? David Paule ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:23 AM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Windscreen Hi Gary, Thanks for the additional pictures and explanation. I understand now what you did; boy those windshields really look nice. I don't think a factory could make them look any nicer. Am surprised that the Olfa knife can cut aluminium that well. What was the temper of the 025 6061? T6? Your process is pretty easy to follow thanks to your pictures. Arlene and I have laid out the aluminium cowling for the front cockpit using posterboard so as soon as I cut it out of aluminium will then do the windshield. Wish me luck. As soon as we see the sun again will roll the Piet into the driveway and take few pictures of it as it is now. Thanks again, Jim B. Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine On Apr 3, 2010, Gary Boothe wrote: Jim, The L shaped fillers are inside the front piece, but in front of the acrylic, to hide the acrylic as you say. They are held by the same screws that hold everything together. Here are a few more pictures that may help. I'd love to see a pic of your plane on wheels! Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 9:31 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Windscreen Hi Gary, Got the landing gear and wheels back on today with Arlene's help. Then I got out the photos of your windscreens to look and see if I can figure out how you did them. First off you did them excellently and I have some questions. Why are the fillers L shaped and you said they are fastened to the front of the windscreen? I can't tell from your photos where they are and what is their purpose? Are they just to cover up your ability to see the top of the glass (acrylic?)? Are they also fastened with the screws you put through the front and rear frames? Thanks Gary, Jim B. Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine Feb 22, 2010 11:00:45 AM, pietenpol-list@matronics.com wrote: Thanks, Dan! I'll post some more pics later in the week.when I get back to the office, but here's a teaser. #13 shows the gap between the front and back piece. #15 shows the 'filler'. It's just a piece of .016 bent to an 'L' and is located on the front side of the glass. #8 shows the cutout process of one of the pieces. After finishing this windscreen, I think I could incorporate the filler piece in to the front frame and just bend it over. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down.) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windscreen Gary, Like that windscreen a lot. Could you post more detail shots at front corners? I think I am going to make mine over again. Yours looks like it is all one piece, front and uprights? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Sun, Feb 21, 2010 6:20 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windscreen The kitchen remodel is on hold until the countertop guy gets his stuff done, so I spent the weekend working on one of the windscreens. Mine are made from 6061 .025 and consist of 8 pieces: Front and back, 3 'L' shaped fillers for the tops, and 3 mounting brackets to the fuselage. Those are made, just not cut to length and fitted. I used a method similar to Jack Phillips, with a wood former. So far I have 12 hours in the first one!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down.) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics .comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:58 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 update NX866BC Ben, By way of future reference, I am trying to benchmark your performance for my future expectations. You have a bit more "climb" in your prop than I have, and with 1150# load, that 400fpm climb sounds pretty good. BTW, I am a big fat boy who will be using an A-65. Carrying my 100# wife should present no problem, other than drugging her to get her into the plane, but my pal Ron whom many of you have seen is roughly my size, girth, and weight. What is your engine, and what was your runway altitude and air temp. in this trial? Do you plan to try it with a "300# passenger," emulating full fuel and fat boys? Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Ben Charvet >Sent: Apr 2, 2010 6:49 PM >To: Pietenpol list >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 update NX866BC > > >Today I loaded the Piet up to gross wt of 1150 lbs with 200 lbs strapped >to the front seat. I was able to find enough scrap lead and iron to fit >into a sturdy canvas tool bag. I could tell a difference in the airplane >just pushing it out of the hangar. The landing gear bungees were even >stretched out about 1/4 in more than with an empty front seat. I was as >nervous as the first flight. Taxi and takeoff were uneventful, although >I used more runway lifting off. I rechecked my best climb speed, and >was still able to get 400 FPM at 60 MPH, 350 FPM at 65 mph. Sixty was >my best rate of climb with just me in it too. I have a Sensenich CK >72X40 climb prop, and it is working out well I guess. Stalls were as >uneventful as before and happened at 36 mph, about what I expected. I >need to add a little bit of right thrust to the motor mount, as I'm >still needing to hold some right rudder in level flight (don't need any >rudder power off). The weather in Florida has been beautiful this week > >I've been flying my butt off trying to make it to Sun-N-Fun, but I have >20 hours on it now, and all the important flight testing is done. I'm >still not sure what days I will be there. The Pres is planning a trip >to Kennedy Space Center April 15 (Thurs), and if he does that will shut >down my airport. Friday is looking good to me. What days are the Big >Piets going to be there? It would be great if we could get 4 Piets >lined up in Homebuilders Corner. > >Ben Charvet >NX866BC > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:11 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 update NX866BC I'm on the east coast of Florida, and our runway is 35 ft MSL. The climb was measured starting from 1000 ft with the second hand of the pocket watch I have on my panel. It was about 65 degrees as best I can remember. I am more the regulation FAA pilot, ie around 170 pounds dressed to fly. The largest passenger I plan to carry at this point is my brother who weighs about 200, and that puts me at the 1150 I chose arbitrarily for a gross wt. I was surprised at the 400fpm climb myself, but I've been seeing 600 fpm with just me in it, Seems to good to be true, but I measured it with my own eyes. Just some other info, my empty weight was 692, in spite of building the whole thing out of douglas fir. It has 12 gallons of fuel in a cowl tank. I removed the weight and flew it this afternoon just for fun. After the longest, coldest, winter in recent memory around here it was as bumpy as a summer day today. It would have probably been uncomfortable for a passenger, but I'm still loving it. living he dream, Ben On 4/4/2010 4:02 PM, Tim Willis wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Tim Willis > > Ben, > By way of future reference, I am trying to benchmark your performance for my future expectations. You have a bit more "climb" in your prop than I have, and with 1150# load, that 400fpm climb sounds pretty good. > BTW, I am a big fat boy who will be using an A-65. Carrying my 100# wife should present no problem, other than drugging her to get her into the plane, but my pal Ron whom many of you have seen is roughly my size, girth, and weight. > What is your engine, and what was your runway altitude and air temp. in this trial? > Do you plan to try it with a "300# passenger," emulating full fuel and fat boys? > Tim in central TX > > > -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ben Charvet >> Sent: Apr 2, 2010 6:49 PM >> To: Pietenpol list >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 update NX866BC >> >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet >> >> Today I loaded the Piet up to gross wt of 1150 lbs with 200 lbs strapped >> to the front seat. I was able to find enough scrap lead and iron to fit >> into a sturdy canvas tool bag. I could tell a difference in the airplane >> just pushing it out of the hangar. The landing gear bungees were even >> stretched out about 1/4 in more than with an empty front seat. I was as >> nervous as the first flight. Taxi and takeoff were uneventful, although >> I used more runway lifting off. I rechecked my best climb speed, and >> was still able to get 400 FPM at 60 MPH, 350 FPM at 65 mph. Sixty was >> my best rate of climb with just me in it too. I have a Sensenich CK >> 72X40 climb prop, and it is working out well I guess. Stalls were as >> uneventful as before and happened at 36 mph, about what I expected. I >> need to add a little bit of right thrust to the motor mount, as I'm >> still needing to hold some right rudder in level flight (don't need any >> rudder power off). The weather in Florida has been beautiful this week >> >> I've been flying my butt off trying to make it to Sun-N-Fun, but I have >> 20 hours on it now, and all the important flight testing is done. I'm >> still not sure what days I will be there. The Pres is planning a trip >> to Kennedy Space Center April 15 (Thurs), and if he does that will shut >> down my airport. Friday is looking good to me. What days are the Big >> Piets going to be there? It would be great if we could get 4 Piets >> lined up in Homebuilders Corner. >> >> Ben Charvet >> NX866BC >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:28 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Windscreen Okay, thanks! Beautiful work..... David Paule > > Those are fibered lock nuts, but not the final fit. The screws are SS Hex > Head #6. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair oil From: Rick Holland Thanks for the info Shad. All my temps and oil pressure is within WWs recommendations so far. I am also using a 12 plate oil cooler. I didn't hear about using 10W30 for the first hour, I have just used the 15W40. One thing I need to work on is the carb heat, it only lowers full throttle rpm about 50 rpm now. How much of a drop do you get? One other decision I need to make is whether to add one of Wiesman's 5th bearings (just another $1000 ;). Have not yet seen a Corvair/Piet with one, have you? rick On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 8:15 PM, shad bell wrote: > > Rick, Just wondering if you did the initial test runs with 10w-30 or not? I remember wynne's recomendation for running the 1st .5- 1.0 hrs on regular old 10w30 (I think it was anyways). Not sure if it is nessasary or not for break in/ seating of rings etc, or if it's just more economical, being as it only gets run through the engine for an hour or less. We have been running exclusivly rotella T 15-40, and have had no problems with it. If your initial oil temps are a little higher than expected don't frett yet, ours dropped 10-20 degrees after about 15-20 hrs. Just make sure they stay within the parameters, we switiched to a stock corvair 12 plate cooler to help lower our temps a little. If I can provide any info or help don't be affraid to ask, I will answer to the best of my knowlage. > > Shad > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:51 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Well, good news and bad news... Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing forward and flipped her on her back. Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. I really don't know what else to say at this point... Douwe ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:29 PM PST US From: airlion Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Douwe, I am sorry about your loss. Have you figured out why the wing displaced forward if the cabanes held up? what was your forward angled cabane made of or was it just a cable on the starboard side? Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ---- From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 6:47:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Well, good news and bad news... Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing forward and flipped her on her back. Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. I really don't know what else to say at this point... Douwe ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:29 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Douwe, I'm speechless...feel very badly for both you and Lowell... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 3:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Well, good news and bad news... Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing forward and flipped her on her back. Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. I really don't know what else to say at this point... Douwe ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:44 PM PST US From: "David Paule" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( I'm so sorry that this happened. Both you and Lowell must feel pretty bad. That shoulder harness sounds like a goodie. It might be worth posting a photo of it to aid builders who haven't yet gotten that far. I hope that the rebuilding goes quickly. It sure is a beautiful airplane. David Paule > Well, good news and bad news... ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:45 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Douwe, I'm so sorry to hear this. The only thing worse would be if Lowell had gotten hurt (I'm sure he feels worse than you do about it). I can relate more than most on this list, since I went through a forced landing and groundloop that damaged my Pietenpol severely, after I had only put 5 hours on it. I can tell you that, while building the Pietenpol was fun, REBUILDING it was sheer work. It took me 8 months to get mine back in flying shape and for that 8 months I had to pretty much just whip myself to go down in the basement and work on it. However, the end result was worth the effort and by the next summer I flew it to Brodhead, then on to OSH where I won an outstanding workmanship award ( I wonder how many previously wrecked airplanes can claim that distinction?). One thing I can say is that now that you know what you're doing with woodwork and fabric work, you will be surprised how much faster the work can go than when you did it for the first time. Buy a copy of AC-43.13, which is the FAA's bible for repairing damaged aircraft. You CAN make this airplane as good as new, trust me. My advice to you is to have a good cry, hug Marcie, buy a bottle of really good single malt scotch and get good and drunk. Hug Marcie again. Then get up in the morning, assess the damage and lay out a plan for rebuilding it. If you need some help, let me know. I'm retired and have an RV-4 that can get me to Brodhead in 4 hours, so I can come help if you need it. Kindest regards, Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 6:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Well, good news and bad news... Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing forward and flipped her on her back. Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. I really don't know what else to say at this point... Douwe ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:55 PM PST US From: "bryan green" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( So sorry to hear this Douwe, but thankful that everyone will be ok. Bryan Green Elgin SC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 6:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( > > > Well, good news and bad news... > > Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. > > After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when > coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him > crooked > on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what > would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an > inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of > the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing > forward and flipped her on her back. > > Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell > got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the > tough > shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) > > Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back > in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and > try > to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. > > Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what > held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through > intact. > > I really don't know what else to say at this point... > > Douwe > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:11 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair oil Rick, Our carb heat is only about 75 rpm drop at full throttle, on humid days I usually take off with it on and leave it there, I was out flying on a humid, fall day a couple years ago and I think it was sarting to ice up, so I turned on the heat and flew back home. I think it is more of an anti-ice system, than a de-ice system. It may also depend on the type of carb you have, we run a marvel MA3SPA, as used on a 0-200, and just have the mixture lever saftied full rich, although I have been toying with putting a mixture cable in so we can adjust it on really hot days. Be DAMNED CAREFULL with carb ice! It does build up fast on a corvair, look at your intake manifold after a ground run on a cool summer morning, it will be dripping with condinsation. Have fun, be safe Shad ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:12 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Wow, what a heartbreak. Glad Lowell is OK. Since we both finished up around the same time, Airworthiness inspection the same day, and all, I can imagine the sense of loss you feel. Hope you can get past the loss and get it fixed. Ben Charvet NX866BC >> Well, good news and bad news... >> >> Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. >> >> After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when >> coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him >> crooked >> on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what >> would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an >> inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the >> side of >> the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing >> forward and flipped her on her back. >> >> Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that >> Lowell >> got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the >> tough >> shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) >> >> Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go >> back >> in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock >> and try >> to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. >> >> Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and >> what >> held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through >> intact. >> >> I really don't know what else to say at this point... >> >> Douwe >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:31 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Douwe, Man what sad news; thank goodness Lowell did fine physically. As I get closer to completion I've found myself worrying about such things. Take Jack's advice, take some time and hang in there. My thoughts are with you and Lowell. Take care! Jack DSM Well, good news and bad news... Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing forward and flipped her on her back. Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. I really don't know what else to say at this point... Douwe ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:24 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Douwe, I am so sorry to hear this. I'm sure you're inconsolable right now, but... Like Jack, we had to rebuild our Piet's gear and forward fuselage after a bad landing. Like he says, it is work. But, also like he says, it can be done and you can end up with a better plane. Our gear is much better designed and built than the previous version, the fuselage is much stronger, we repaired and altered a bunch of small things that weren't right, we didn't gain any weight, and we ended up with a much better looking plane with better performance. Some of it was fun, but a lot of it was work. Again, as Jack says, set out a plan and then just put one foot in front of the other. The plan doesn't need to be perfect, either. You just have to get started. Good luck, Jeff > >Douwe, I'm so sorry to hear this. The only thing worse would be if Lowell >had gotten hurt (I'm sure he feels worse than you do about it). > >I can relate more than most on this list, since I went through a forced >landing and groundloop that damaged my Pietenpol severely, after I had only >put 5 hours on it. I can tell you that, while building the Pietenpol was >fun, REBUILDING it was sheer work. It took me 8 months to get mine back in >flying shape and for that 8 months I had to pretty much just whip myself to >go down in the basement and work on it. However, the end result was worth >the effort and by the next summer I flew it to Brodhead, then on to OSH >where I won an outstanding workmanship award ( I wonder how many previously >wrecked airplanes can claim that distinction?). One thing I can say is that >now that you know what you're doing with woodwork and fabric work, you will >be surprised how much faster the work can go than when you did it for the >first time. > >Buy a copy of AC-43.13, which is the FAA's bible for repairing damaged >aircraft. You CAN make this airplane as good as new, trust me. > >My advice to you is to have a good cry, hug Marcie, buy a bottle of really >good single malt scotch and get good and drunk. Hug Marcie again. Then get >up in the morning, assess the damage and lay out a plan for rebuilding it. >If you need some help, let me know. I'm retired and have an RV-4 that can >get me to Brodhead in 4 hours, so I can come help if you need it. > >Kindest regards, > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe >Blumberg >Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 6:47 PM >To: pietenpolgroup >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( > > > >Well, good news and bad news... > >Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. > >After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when >coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked >on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what >would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an >inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of >the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing >forward and flipped her on her back. > >Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell >got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough >shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) > >Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back >in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try >to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. > >Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what >held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. > >I really don't know what else to say at this point... > >Douwe > > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:30 PM PST US From: Mike Townsley Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Douwe, I am sorry to hear of the mishap...very thankful no one was hurt. I can't imagine how sad you must be and just plain rung out. Don't make any snap decisions.... I know it is pre mature, but I encourage you to rebuild the plane. You have so much invested and did such a good job, you can rebuild it...you can do it. Pastor Mike Townsley in Iowa Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > Well, good news and bad news... > > Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. > > After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when > coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked > on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what > would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an > inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of > the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing > forward and flipped her on her back. > > Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell > got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough > shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) > > Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back > in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try > to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. > > Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what > held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. > > I really don't know what else to say at this point... > > Douwe > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:09 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Douwe, That is just terrible news. We are all so sorry to see your beautiful plane broken up. Jack P. is right-- you need to have a period of grieving, then take stock of exactly what needs to be done, and follow approved methods. Jack and Oscar and a few others have patched them back up, and with improvements. You know all this already. Setting aside the heartbreak will be the hardest part. We are all glad that Lowell is not too banged up. He is a tough guy, too, just like our Piets-- time tested. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: Douwe Blumberg >Sent: Apr 4, 2010 5:47 PM >To: pietenpolgroup >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( > > >Well, good news and bad news... > >Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. > >After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when >coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked >on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what >would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an >inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of >the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing >forward and flipped her on her back. > >Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell >got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough >shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) > >Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back >in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try >to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. > >Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what >held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. > >I really don't know what else to say at this point... > >Douwe > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair oil From: Rick Holland Am also using an ma3spa Shad, and you are correct about the condensation on the intake. Even here in very low humidity Colorado I have noticed it every time I test ran the engine. I have my mixture control hooked up, at this altitude we always adjust mixture at runup before takeoff. rick On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:08 PM, shad bell wrote: > > > Rick, Our carb heat is only about 75 rpm drop at full throttle, on humid days I usually take off with it on and leave it there, I was out flying on a humid, fall day a couple years ago and I think it was sarting to ice up, so I turned on the heat and flew back home. I think it is more of an anti-ice system, than a de-ice system. It may also depend on the type of carb you have, we run a marvel MA3SPA, as used on a 0-200, and just have the mixture lever saftied full rich, although I have been toying with putting a mixture cable in so we can adjust it on really hot days. Be DAMNED CAREFULL with carb ice! It does build up fast on a corvair, look at your intake manifold after a ground run on a cool summer morning, it will be dripping with condinsation. > > Have fun, be safe > Shad > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( From: "John Recine" Douwe, I am sorry to learn of your damaged Piet. The good news is they still make wood for replacement parts, epoxy to hold them together, cloth and paint to recover them. The 2 most important elements are the skillful hands to bring it back to life and that there were no serious injuries. Like dings in the paint scratches in the skin can heal. We are all thankful that we still have you both, shaken not stirred but undamaged. A broken plane can be repaired by a builder but there is yet a plane that can ever repair a broken builder. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( Douwe, That is just terrible news. We are all so sorry to see your beautiful plane broken up. Jack P. is right-- you need to have a period of grieving, then take stock of exactly what needs to be done, and follow approved methods. Jack and Oscar and a few others have patched them back up, and with improvements. You know all this already. Setting aside the heartbreak will be the hardest part. We are all glad that Lowell is not too banged up. He is a tough guy, too, just like our Piets-- time tested. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: Douwe Blumberg >Sent: Apr 4, 2010 5:47 PM >To: pietenpolgroup >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Douwe's piet...:( > > >Well, good news and bad news... > >Good news is Lowell is fine, bad news is my plane is pretty smashed up. > >After some high speed runs and fiddling, Lowell popped her up and when >coming down got caught by a pretty good surprise gust which got him crooked >on touchdown, initiating a fairly mild groundloop. Unfortunately, what >would have been a minor groundloop turned into major disaster due to an >inconveniently placed three foot deep muddy drainage ditch off the side of >the runway. This smashed the gear, smashed the prop, displaced the wing >forward and flipped her on her back. > >Considering the whallop she took in the ditch, we are grateful that Lowell >got away with nothing more than some bucked shins. (thank God for the tough >shoulder harness I installed, please do this everybody) > >Got a crane, put her in the hanger, had lunch and went home. I'll go back >in a few days once the reality sets in and I stop crying, take stock and try >to figure out if I have the "gumption" left to rebuild her. > >Learned a lot about building practices from seeing what gave way and what >held up. Interesting note, the wood struts and cabanes came through intact. > >I really don't know what else to say at this point... > >Douwe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.