Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Re: Shoulder Harness on 41CC (Gene Rambo)
2. 05:39 AM - Re: NASA woes (Michael Perez)
3. 05:46 AM - Shoulder Harness on 41CC (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 06:42 AM - Re: NASA woes (TOM STINEMETZE)
5. 08:12 AM - Re: NASA woes (Jeff Boatright)
6. 09:52 AM - from Russia with love..... (Michael Silvius)
7. 10:24 AM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Tim Willis)
8. 10:29 AM - Re: NASA woes (Michael Perez)
9. 10:31 AM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Michael Perez)
10. 10:37 AM - Re: from Russia with love..... (David Paule)
11. 10:58 AM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Michael Perez)
12. 11:27 AM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Ryan Mueller)
13. 11:35 AM - Re: NASA woes (TOM STINEMETZE)
14. 11:37 AM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Jeff Boatright)
15. 12:21 PM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Michael Silvius)
16. 12:23 PM - Re: NASA woes (H RULE)
17. 12:36 PM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Ryan Mueller)
18. 12:52 PM - I finally bought my plans! (steve schuerr)
19. 01:39 PM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Michael Silvius)
20. 02:27 PM - Re: rigging the wings (carson)
21. 02:39 PM - Re: NASA woes (Mike Whaley)
22. 04:11 PM - Re: I finally bought my plans! (helspersew@aol.com)
23. 06:20 PM - Nice flight, not such a good ending! (Jeff Boatright)
24. 07:11 PM - Re: Nice flight, not such a good ending! (airlion)
25. 07:34 PM - Re: Can someone explain brake ratings please? (airlion)
26. 07:34 PM - Re: Can someone explain brake ratings please? (airlion)
27. 07:34 PM - Re: special note about T-88 (airlion)
28. 07:58 PM - Re: from Russia with love..... (Clif Dawson)
29. 08:03 PM - Re: Nice flight, not such a good ending! (Jeff Boatright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shoulder Harness on 41CC |
sorry, I have been very busy lately and have not responded to many
emails. I am heading out to the school bus stop now, but I'll write
later. If you want the seat belts, I'll put you on top of the list.
Several people have asked. What do you need to know if you want them
for sure? $70 for the pair of belts/harnesses.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner<mailto:kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness on 41CC
Gene,
I tried to email you off list, just wondering if you got it?
Kip
On Apr 14, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
I have not seen a photo of the belts in 41CC, but I have a pair of
seat belts/harnesses that I bought from Joe Czaplicki that are still in
the box. If they came from him, they might be the same. They are olive
drab with olive anodized airline-style buckles. The end fittings for
both the lap belt and the shoulder harness are the "clip-on style" shown
in the link to the AS&S catalogue someone else posted. I'd love to sell
these belts to someone who can use them. I think I gave Joe $35 each
for them. I can try to post a photo later tonight if anyone is
interested.
Gene Rambo
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com<mailto:Isablcorky@aol.com>
To:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness on 41CC
Dan,
Contact Joe Czaplicki ,
fishin3@sbcglobal.net<mailto:fishin3@sbcglobal.net> for information on
the seat belts and harnesses on 41CC
Corky
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P
ietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>">http:/
/forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>">http://www.matronics.com/c<http://www.matronics.com/c>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
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m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
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Message 2
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Not to hop on Mr. Cuy's email, but as a NASA employee, I thank you Tom for your
support. There is A L-O-T more to NASA then space and space ships.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness on 41CC |
Dan: yes, I believe the cabanes on 41CC are a bit taller
than stock, as are most these days. I think the original
intent was to make it easier to get in and out of the
cockpit by raising the wing a few inches and it does help.
As you've noted, if your cabanes are shorter, the brace
wires will X at a point closer to the cowling than on my
airplane and may not allow attaching to them.
[BS warning: here it comes]- in addition to providing
additional clearance for pilot and passenger entry to
the cockpits, raising the wing by lengthening the
cabanes gets the underside of the wing out of the
disturbed airflow that comes off the tops of the
windscreens and thus provides a dramatic increase in
climb and cruise performance. Unfortunately, I have
been unable to quantify those tremendous performance
gains except to note that 41CC cruises very comfortably
at 70 MPH indicated airspeed. This is a good deal
higher than the older Air Campers with standard cabanes
and with that ugly radiator out front, which completely
kills airflow over the underside of the wing
centersection.
[BS detector off now].
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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Michael:
Sorry, I didn't realize that we had more than one NASA guy on the list.
If there are others, those sentiments are for you too. You're my heros!
NASA's job is to "Boldly go where no man (in the neutral gender sense) has
gone before." And that does include a lot of things besides space flight.
You've probably heard me brag about my two boys who work for Burt Rutan
out at Scaled Composites. They did a lot of tongue-in-cheek ragging on
NASA back when SpaceShipOne was doing it's civilian spacecraft thing BUT
they also kept sending me video clips and hot links to things going on at
NASA. There is a lot of respect for you there. The important thing was
that both groups were trying to push the envelope and try to come up with
new ideas and new technology; not just keep producing the same old same
old leaving us right where we are today.
NASA may need to get "leaner and meaner," (don't we all nowadays) but you
don't throw out the baby with the bath water (so to speak.) We need to
keep our best brains occupied with out-of-the-box ideas.
Hmmm, I seem to have slipped into sermon mode again - - My Bad!
do not archive
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> 4/16/2010 7:27 AM >>>
Not to hop on Mr. Cuy's email, but as a NASA employee, I thank you Tom for
your support. There is A L-O-T more to NASA then space and space ships.
Message 5
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Not sure what this has to do with Piets, but did NASA's budget
actually get cut? $3 billion added to KSC, $6 billion over 5 years
overall to NASA. Was NASA on schedule to get more than an additional
$6 billion? I don't follow this much, so maybe those who do can
educate me. Also, I can certainly understand that various rice bowls
may have been tumped over and others' oxen have been gored, so please
don't think I'm belittling anyone's individual circumstance. It's no
fun having programs you're dedicated to get the economic ax. Two of
mine are set to get the heave-ho this month!
Do not archive.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 6
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| Subject: | from Russia with love..... |
Came across this one while perusing a Russian builders bulletin board.
http://www.vulkan-avia.ru/pitenpol_design.htm
also home page of the link has all the F&G manuals in PDF for download
Michael in Maine
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
Great find. Interesting CAD stuff, as well as apparently a complete drawing set.
I could not make the F&G downloads work.
On the CAD drawings, note that the internals of the VStab do not match the Piet
blueprints.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net>
>Sent: Apr 16, 2010 1:45 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: from Russia with love.....
>
>
>Came across this one while perusing a Russian builders bulletin board.
>
>http://www.vulkan-avia.ru/pitenpol_design.htm
>
>also home page of the link has all the F&G manuals in PDF for download
>
>Michael in Maine
>
>
Message 8
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Mike and I work together in the same very small building, as it were.
-
Scaled Composites is awesome. If I did not work here, that is the type of p
lace I would seek out for employment.
-
My favorite line:
-
"...push the envelope and try to come up with new ideas and new technology;
not just keep producing the same old same old-leaving us right-where w
e are today."
-
That can be said for Pietenpol building as well...
-
Thanks for the kind words. Mike is heading to Akron to see the B-25 group t
his weekend, I'm sure he will chime in on Monday.
-
do not archive
-
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
Very cool. Thanks!
-
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
Aren't those the plans that the Pietenpol family sells? If so, then this is
a rip-off.
David Paule
>
> Came across this one while perusing a Russian builders bulletin board.
>
> http://www.vulkan-avia.ru/pitenpol_design.htm
>
> also home page of the link has all the F&G manuals in PDF for download
>
> Michael in Maine
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
They are the same.
-
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
Sure, it is in metric, making it less likely that someone would use the
plans....but why would you post that?
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net> wrote:
>
> Came across this one while perusing a Russian builders bulletin board.
>
> http://www.vulkan-avia.ru/pitenpol_design.htm
>
> also home page of the link has all the F&G manuals in PDF for download
>
> Michael in Maine
>
>
Message 13
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Jeff:
Thanks for sharing that document. I was not aware of it and was taking my
information from the talking heads on the early morning news broadcast.
Probably not a smart thing to do. Anyway, the only thing they could talk
about was the cancellation of the Constellation program which was to
replace the shuttle as a means of getting things to the International
Space Station. Granted, it did seem like a big step backwards into dated
and wasteful technology but at least it would have kept us in the space
business. If they really follow through with the programs outlined in the
OMB document, it could turn out to be a good move after all. KEEPING MY
FINGERS CROSSED! (Which, according to the gospel of Linus VanPelt of
Peanuts fame, is not theologically sound doctrine.)
Stinemetze
do not archive
>>> Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> 4/16/2010 10:12 AM >>>
Not sure what this has to do with Piets, but did NASA's budget
actually get cut? $3 billion added to KSC, $6 billion over 5 years
overall to NASA. Was NASA on schedule to get more than an additional
$6 billion? I don't follow this much, so maybe those who do can
educate me. Also, I can certainly understand that various rice bowls
may have been tumped over and others' oxen have been gored, so please
don't think I'm belittling anyone's individual circumstance. It's no
fun having programs you're dedicated to get the economic ax. Two of
mine are set to get the heave-ho this month!
Do not archive.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
I think it's pretty innocuous, FWIW. It's just my opinion, but who is
going to build from GIF images of metric plans? I guess it could
happen, but the cost of the plans is such a small percentage of the
overall project. Of course, there are crazy people out there. There's
even a guy who built a Piet AND an RV! :)
>Sure, it is in metric, making it less likely that someone would use
>the plans....but why would you post that?
>
>On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Michael Silvius
><<mailto:silvius@gwi.net>silvius@gwi.net> wrote:
>
><<mailto:silvius@gwi.net>silvius@gwi.net>
>
>Came across this one while perusing a Russian builders bulletin board.
>
><http://www.vulkan-avia.ru/pitenpol_design.htm>http://www.vulkan-avia.ru/pitenpol_design.htm
>
>also home page of the link has all the F&G manuals in PDF for download
>
>Michael in Maine
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
Ryan:
Mostly because I found it interesting that as far away as Rusia there
are entusiast building Pientopols. As far as I can tell the images are
scans of the F&G manual drawings. They are available elsewere on the net
as well.
I found the link to that page here:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=
ru&tl=en&u=http://www.reaa.ru/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl%3Fboard%3Dbuilding
_from_plans&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjxC
S1aaNpf5122s9bCPVdN1gCyhw
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
Sure, it is in metric, making it less likely that someone would use
the plans....but why would you post that?
Message 16
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As a Canadian and a concerned person on this planet,I think NASA is going in the
wrong direction.We as a planet should be doing our best to get out there as
soon as possible to other worlds because we are fast wearing this one out and
we will need a new one shortly.Perhaps terra forming Mars or going beyond.There
are a lot of asteroids out there we can mine .There's a lot of work to do.Cutting
back is not going to do it for us.Each time a space ship goes up the only
thing that is lost is part of the launch vehicle .The rest of the money goes
into the pockets of the men working on the project and they in turn spend that
money;it is what makes the world go around.Time and again history has shown
us that cutting back only causes more problems.There will never be enough food
or money to feed the hungry of the world or to put money in their pockets.God
bless NASA and God bless the American people for going out there in the first
place.I can guarantee you that
if the western world cuts back,the next thing that will be spoken on the moon
will be Chinese and these guys will be the ones exploring space and maybe they
might not want us to come along with them.Thank about it.Nothing to do with Piets
but that's my take on the matter.
do not archive
________________________________
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 8:27:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NASA woes
Not to hop on Mr. Cuy's email, but as a NASA employee, I thank you Tom for your
support. There is A L-O-T more to NASA then space and space ships.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
Michael,
It's actually the plans set sold by the Pietenpol family....as Jeff
mentioned, with the measurements in metric....but still.....
Ryan
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net> wrote:
> Ryan:
>
> Mostly because I found it interesting that as far away as Rusia there are
> entusiast building Pientopols. As far as I can tell the images are scans of
> the F&G manual drawings. They are available elsewere on the net as well.
>
> I found the link to that page here:
>
>
> http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.reaa.ru/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl%3Fboard%3Dbuilding_from_plans&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjxCS1aaNpf5122s9bCPVdN1gCyhw
>
> Michael
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
>
> Sure, it is in metric, making it less likely that someone would use the
> plans....but why would you post that?
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | I finally bought my plans! |
I finally bought my plans this afternoon. Very exciting.
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
Ryan:
I did not realize that. I did not look at them that closely. I saw the
small images and related them to the F&G manual article. I have asked
Matt to delete the thread and sent a note to Don Pietenpol about the
site I linked. My apologies.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
Michael,
It's actually the plans set sold by the Pietenpol family....as Jeff
mentioned, with the measurements in metric....but still.....
Ryan
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: rigging the wings |
Hi Guys
I am hoping to trial fit my wings in the next few months,when you say build in
the washout how exactly do you do that is it just a matter of adjusting the brace
wires to get a slight twist or am I way off.
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=294482#294482
Message 21
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Here are some NASA color scheme ideas I came up with a while back... I
figure if there's anything diametrically opposed to an LSA, it's the Space
Shuttle! I'll sure miss watching the launches.
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
>>> Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> 4/16/2010 7:27 AM >>>
Not to hop on Mr. Cuy's email, but as a NASA employee, I thank you Tom for
your support. There is A L-O-T more to NASA then space and space ships.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: I finally bought my plans! |
Hi Steve,
Good for you! Very exciting indeed. Where are you from?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
NX929DH
-----Original Message-----
From: steve schuerr <sdschuerr@live.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 16, 2010 2:52 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I finally bought my plans!
I finally bought my plans this afternoon. Very exciting.
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| Subject: | Nice flight, not such a good ending! |
Big rock in the middle of the runway. Look closely and you can see
it. Our tailwheel found it last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a1H1OsudNU
Already fixed it this evening.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Nice flight, not such a good ending! |
Jeff, how did you miss damaging your rudder? Gardiner
----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Sent: Fri, April 16, 2010 9:15:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice flight, not such a good ending!
Big rock in the middle of the runway. Look closely and you can see it. Our tailwheel
found it last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a1H1OsudNU
Already fixed it this evening.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Can someone explain brake ratings please? |
----- Original Message ----
From: David Paule <dpaule@frii.com>
Sent: Sun, April 11, 2010 11:29:37 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Can someone explain brake ratings please?
I've operated my Cessna 180 for decades with 6:00-6 tires, frequently off of grass
strips. Even a beach one day, and often at gross weight (2,550 pounds). I've
landed off-airport on a mesa a few times as well, keeping a keen lookout for
prairie dog hills.
No problem.
For an alternate opinion, see this:
http://www.bentpropproductions.com/
Go for the hydraulic breaks. If they are sized right, they'll give you smooth,
solid braking with minimal maintenance.
Static load is the load on the tire while the plane is standing still on the ground.
Limit load is the maximum load encountered during a landing.
David Paule
>
> Hi...looking in to what wheel and brake combo to use. I have decided to go with
the 800-6. Looking at the Matco variety on AS&S. Can someone explain the Static
Load figures and the Load limit figures? What Part number are other builders
using? I intend flying off a grass strip so am going for the larger tyre.
Also what are the pros and cons between hydraulic and cable brakes?
>
> Sorry for what probably sounds like a mundane question but im stumped!
>
> Scotty
> Australia
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Can someone explain brake ratings please? |
Jack, I too have clevelands with matco brakes and they work great. I don't worry
about over braking because you just cant. Maybe it is because the matco cylinders
are smaller than the clevelands. Gardiner.
________________________________
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Mon, April 12, 2010 11:23:39 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Can someone explain brake ratings please?
RE: Pietenpol-List: Can someone explain brake ratings please?
I also haveCleveland brakes off (I believe) a 172, but I have 21" motorcycle rims.
I use the MatcoMC-4master cylinders, which have a piston diameter of .625".
I believe 6.00 x 6 Cleveland brakes have a 2" diameter piston (don't remember
exactly), which would mean a 50 lb push on the master cylinder would generate
a hydraulic presure of 50/(p(.625)2/4)=163 psi. When this pressure is applied
to the brake caliper, it generates a force of 163 x (p(22/4)) or 512 lbs,
so you get about a 10:1 advantage.
With the tall wheels, I find my brakes are adequate for stopping and to hold it
for a runup, but they can't hold it against full power.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 10:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Can someone explain brake ratings please?
As with David's experience, so with mine. NX41CC
has 6.00x6 on the main gear, with hydraulic brakes
straight off an older Cessna 172. I operate off
of grass whenever possible and I love the way
the Piet flies off of grass with this setup. I
know that the people who have motorcycle-type
wheels have things a little bit different than
we who have fat tires and spring or bungee gear,
but they both have their pros and cons.
I prefer the slightly larger and fatter tires
for appearance as well. The smaller ones seem to
be out of scale for the airplane.
The brakes on the airplane work very well in all
conditions, readily hold the airplane during static
runup, but are not overpowering for the 1080 lb.
gross weight.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much much more:
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: special note about T-88 |
________________________________
From: Michael Hardaway <baiquemaique@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, April 10, 2010 11:07:51 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: special note about T-88
This same system uses "furlongs per fortnight" to measure Piet speed.
The metric system uses "centimeters per century."
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of r.r.hall@cox.net
>Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 7:20
AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE:
Pietenpol-List: special note about T-88
>I usually use Gill, Drams and minims when I measure mine. :-)
>Rodney Hall with that wacky English system used in the USA
>---- Steve Glass <redsglass@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Is it still
50/50 if you use the metric system? or do you have to convert it to cubits and
work backwards?
>Steve in Maine
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: from Russia with love..... |
Re: Pietenpol-List: from Russia with love.....Well, actually, pretty
much the only country in the world
still using inches and feet is the US. Even England, the
very home of the system, is metric. There's an awful lot
of potential Pieters outside the US. And non of them
have measuring tools that are NOT metric.
Personaly, I find inches much easier when working with
wood and metal in the way necessary for what we're
doing.
Clif, nasty old holdout. :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: from Russia with love.....
I think it's pretty innocuous, FWIW. It's just my opinion, but who is
going to build from GIF images of metric plans? I guess it could happen,
but the cost of the plans is such a small percentage of the overall
project. Of course, there are crazy people out there. There's even a guy
who built a Piet AND an RV! :)
Sure, it is in metric, making it less likely that someone would use
the plans....but why would you post that?
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net>
wrote:
<silvius@gwi.net>
Came across this one while perusing a Russian builders bulletin
board.
http://www.vulkan-avia.ru/pitenpol_design.htm
also home page of the link has all the F&G manuals in PDF for
download
Michael in Maine
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/16/10 11:31:00
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Nice flight, not such a good ending! |
The bolt holding the tailwheel to the welded ladder sheared, so there
was no damage to anything as near as I can tell. The wheel came off,
the tali came down on the pad of the welded ladder and simply acted
as a tail skid.
>
>Jeff, how did you miss damaging your rudder? Gardiner
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
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