Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:12 AM - big numbers (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 07:44 AM - Re: construction and glue (Dan Yocum)
3. 09:27 AM - Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Ed G.)
4. 12:41 PM - Aileron to Wing Gap (Chris)
5. 01:41 PM - Re: Aileron to Wing Gap (Jerry Dotson)
6. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: Aileron to Wing Gap (Chris)
7. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Aileron to Wing Gap (Ben Charvet)
8. 06:06 PM - spar butt straps (Ken Chambers)
9. 06:22 PM - Re: spar butt straps (Ben Charvet)
10. 06:44 PM - Re: spar butt straps (Chris)
11. 07:05 PM - Re: spar butt straps (Jim Markle)
12. 07:14 PM - Re: Aileron to Wing Gap (K5YAC)
13. 07:30 PM - Re: spar butt straps (K5YAC)
14. 07:43 PM - Re: Aileron to Wing Gap (Jerry Dotson)
15. 07:49 PM - Re: spar butt straps (gcardinal)
16. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: spar butt straps (Ken Chambers)
17. 07:54 PM - Re: spar butt straps (Rick Holland)
18. 08:23 PM - Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Clif Dawson)
19. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: spar butt straps (gcardinal)
20. 08:41 PM - Re: Re: spar butt straps (gcardinal)
21. 08:54 PM - Re: Re: spar butt straps (Chris)
22. 09:05 PM - Re: Re: spar butt straps (Rick Holland)
23. 09:22 PM - Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear (Chris)
24. 11:32 PM - Re: Re: spar butt straps (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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I agree, I couldn't believe it would be legal to put numbers other than the
reg numbers on. I had read the regs and it stated clearly that you could
paint whatever letters or numbers you wanted as long as it didn't start with
the letter "N". I specifically asked him and he said my interpretation was
correct, paint away!
Who knew?
Douwe
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: construction and glue |
Dan, Ryan, Chris,
Thanks for the feedback and the Bingelis scan - that helped a lot. No
way I'll be mitring each cross-brace now as long as the ends butt up
against the capstrip and the adjoining cross-brace.
Of course, after I sent the question about the white pine I recalled
that I've got a small pile of one-by doug fir standing in the corner of
the garage - left-overs from the trim jobs in the house. It's not
aircraft grade, but for a 1/2" x 1/2" x 2" cross piece I'm sure it's
sufficient.
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 3
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| Subject: | Aluminum cabane insert material |
I haven't seen any replies to your question on wooden strut inserts so I'll
give it a shot. I would be afraid of useing wood inserts because wood has
a fairly low strength on short sections with the grain. There is only about
5/16" of material below the bolt hole on the bottom fitting (and above on
the top fitting). With the loads and shock loads applied by the strut the b
olt would pull out the small chunk of wood below the bolt along the grain l
ines. They would be strong in compression but very weak in tension. I would
n't make them out of wood. You would be much better off with metal inserts.
Ed G.
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum cabane insert material
> From: speedbrake@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Sat=2C 1 May 2010 12:12:09 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
net>
>
> I believe I have my posting woes fixed=2C so I am trying this again.
>
> I am using aluminum cabanes and am curious if a hard wood=2C (oak/ash) wo
uld be suitable for the inserts. I know most use some type of steel or alum
inum=2C but since the fittings attach to soft spruce and ply wood gussets o
n the fuselage end=2C why not wood inside the cabanes?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296389#296389
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox
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http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Aileron to Wing Gap |
How wide should I make the gap at the end of the aileron between the wing
and the aileron? You know the area between the two solid end plates? Does
3/8" sound correct?
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron to Wing Gap |
I have been studying on the same thing as I will be building the ailerons this
coming week. I will make mine the width of the folded piano hinge. Is that what
you were referring to?
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296500#296500
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00204_131.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron to Wing Gap |
Jerry,
What I am referring to is the end of the aileron where it abuts the wing
panel parallel to the cord line. For the left wing it would be the right end
of the aileron.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:37 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron to Wing Gap
I have been studying on the same thing as I will be building the ailerons
this coming week. I will make mine the width of the folded piano hinge. Is
that what you were referring to?
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296500#296500
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00204_131.jpg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron to Wing Gap |
I think I made mine 1/4 inch. You need to allow for the covering and
paint on each side and still have enough gap. I ended up with about 1/8
inch when it was finished. You definitely don't want it too tight, but
3/8 would probably leave about 1/4 inch of gap on completion.
Ben Charvet
On 5/2/2010 6:03 PM, Chris wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Chris"<catdesigns@att.net>
>
> Jerry,
>
> What I am referring to is the end of the aileron where it abuts the wing
> panel parallel to the cord line. For the left wing it would be the right end
> of the aileron.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | spar butt straps |
Working on the 16 center section spar butt straps for the 3-piece wing. My
first metal fittings.
I've read a lot of advice about making fittings longer. These center section
straps don't poke out through the fabric and I can't see a reason to make
them longer.
What has everyone else done? Anyone made them to plans and had to do them
over? I'm really slow so I'd like to avoid doing them over.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
These are some of the easier fittings to make, especially if you buy the
steel in the width specified on the plans. I made my butt straps the
same length as the plans. If you are planning to add dihedral, leave
enough room for a gap between the wing spars and center section spars.
I drilled the ones for the wing spars in a stack so they would be
interchangable.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
On 5/2/2010 9:02 PM, Ken Chambers wrote:
>
> Working on the 16 center section spar butt straps for the 3-piece
> wing. My first metal fittings.
>
> I've read a lot of advice about making fittings longer. These center
> section straps don't poke out through the fabric and I can't see a
> reason to make them longer.
>
> What has everyone else done? Anyone made them to plans and had to do
> them over? I'm really slow so I'd like to avoid doing them over.
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 10
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| Subject: | spar butt straps |
I made mine the length shown on the plans and they worked fine. The
fittings that you might want to make longer are the ones that project away
from the structure where something else bolts to it. On the center section
fittings these would be the tabs that the brace wires attach to and the tabs
ones that the vertical struts bolt to.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spar butt straps
Working on the 16 center section spar butt straps for the 3-piece wing. My
first metal fittings.
I've read a lot of advice about making fittings longer. These center section
straps don't poke out through the fabric and I can't see a reason to make
them longer.
What has everyone else done? Anyone made them to plans and had to do them
over? I'm really slow so I'd like to avoid doing them over.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
You might want to also check into the way Dale Johnson and Greg Cardinal did theirs.
It eliminated the big gap and did the job nicely. If I was at the point
you're NOW at...I would do it exactly the way they did it.....
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Charvet
Sent: May 2, 2010 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spar butt straps
These are some of the easier fittings to make, especially if you buy
the steel in the width specified on the plans. I made my butt straps
the same length as the plans. If you are planning to add dihedral,
leave enough room for a gap between the wing spars and center section
spars. I drilled the ones for the wing spars in a stack so they would
be interchangable.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
On 5/2/2010 9:02 PM, Ken Chambers wrote:
Working on the 16 center section spar butt straps for the 3-piece wing.
My first metal fittings.
I've read a lot of advice about making fittings longer. These center
section straps don't poke out through the fabric and I can't see a
reason to make them longer.
What has everyone else done? Anyone made them to plans and had to do
them over? I'm really slow so I'd like to avoid doing them over.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron to Wing Gap |
I made my gap 1/4" too, like Ben did. Looks like it should provide plenty of room
for covering, paint, etc.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296531#296531
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
Is this what you are talking about Jim?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296533#296533
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0422_149.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron to Wing Gap |
Chris,
Yeah what Ben said. I read but what you said it blew right by me. I will make mine
1/4" also. I ripped and fitted the 1/2" by 3" spars this afternoon.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296534#296534
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
We followed the KeriAnn Price plans.....
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spar butt straps
> <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> You might want to also check into the way Dale Johnson and Greg Cardinal
> did theirs. It eliminated the big gap and did the job nicely. If I was
> at the point you're NOW at...I would do it exactly the way they did
> it.....
>
> jm
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Ben Charvet
>
> Sent: May 2, 2010 8:17 PM
>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spar butt straps
>
>
> These are some of the easier fittings to make, especially if you buy
> the steel in the width specified on the plans. I made my butt straps
> the same length as the plans. If you are planning to add dihedral,
> leave enough room for a gap between the wing spars and center section
> spars. I drilled the ones for the wing spars in a stack so they would
> be interchangable.
>
>
> Ben Charvet
>
> Mims, Fl
>
>
> On 5/2/2010 9:02 PM, Ken Chambers wrote:
>
>
> Working on the 16 center section spar butt straps for the 3-piece wing.
> My first metal fittings.
>
>
> I've read a lot of advice about making fittings longer. These center
> section straps don't poke out through the fabric and I can't see a
> reason to make them longer.
>
>
> What has everyone else done? Anyone made them to plans and had to do
> them over? I'm really slow so I'd like to avoid doing them over.
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
Thanks everyone.
I found that that photo of Greg and Dale's beautiful plane too, on West
Coast piet. But I'm not smart enough to understand the significance of the
fittings meeting beneath the wing. They adjusted the angle of the straps,
made them longer...then what happens?
On a different topic, has anyone drilled their fittings with a hand drill? I
figure I can level the surface the metal is on, use the level on the drill
and get a pretty clean hole. Or I'm kidding myself and it's absolutely time
to invest in a drill press?
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Is this what you are talking about Jim?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296533#296533
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0422_149.jpg
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
Correct, and you may want to make the wing strut fittings a little longer.
rick
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Chris <catdesigns@att.net> wrote:
> I made mine the length shown on the plans and they worked fine. The
> fittings that you might want to make longer are the ones that project away
> from the structure where something else bolts to it. On the center section
> fittings these would be the tabs that the brace wires attach to and the tabs
> ones that the vertical struts bolt to.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, Ca
> Westcoastpiet.com
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Chambers
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:03 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: spar butt straps
>
>
> Working on the 16 center section spar butt straps for the 3-piece wing. My
> first metal fittings.
>
> I've read a lot of advice about making fittings longer. These center
> section straps don't poke out through the fabric and I can't see a reason to
> make them longer.
>
> What has everyone else done? Anyone made them to plans and had to do them
> over? I'm really slow so I'd like to avoid doing them over.
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
One question, are you going to bolt to the fuselage fittings through the
cabane itself?
If so then why do you want anything in there? The only way an insert is
going to add
strength in tension is if that insert has at least one more bolt through
it and the strut
an inch or so above the bottom hole. This is a good idea with aluminum.
In this case
it's best to use a bar of aluminum.
It's not like using wood struts. What you do there is add metal plates
to the outside
with another bolt 1 1/2" above the one that bolts the strut to the
fuselage. This
icreases the area of the "plug" sides thus increasing the tearout
resistance dramaticaly.
In both cases the idea is to strengthen the strut.
Clif
There is only about 5/16" of material below the bolt hole on the
bottom fitting (and above on the top fitting). With the loads and shock
loads applied by the strut the bolt would pull out the small chunk of
wood below the bolt along the grain lines. You would be much better off
with metal inserts. Ed G.
>
> I believe I have my posting woes fixed, so I am trying this again.
>
> I am using aluminum cabanes and am curious if a hard wood, (oak/ash)
would be suitable for the inserts. I know most use some type of steel or
aluminum, but since the fittings attach to soft spruce and ply wood
gussets on the fuselage end, why not wood inside the cabanes?
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
Hold on, I'm trying to sketch and scan a picture.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Chambers
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar butt straps
Thanks everyone.
I found that that photo of Greg and Dale's beautiful plane too, on
West Coast piet. But I'm not smart enough to understand the significance
of the fittings meeting beneath the wing. They adjusted the angle of the
straps, made them longer...then what happens?
On a different topic, has anyone drilled their fittings with a hand
drill? I figure I can level the surface the metal is on, use the level
on the drill and get a pretty clean hole. Or I'm kidding myself and it's
absolutely time to invest in a drill press?
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
Is this what you are talking about Jim?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296533#296533
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0422_149.jpg
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
Hopefully the attached PDF answers your question.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Chambers
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar butt straps
Thanks everyone.
I found that that photo of Greg and Dale's beautiful plane too, on
West Coast piet. But I'm not smart enough to understand the significance
of the fittings meeting beneath the wing. They adjusted the angle of the
straps, made them longer...then what happens?
On a different topic, has anyone drilled their fittings with a hand
drill? I figure I can level the surface the metal is on, use the level
on the drill and get a pretty clean hole. Or I'm kidding myself and it's
absolutely time to invest in a drill press?
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
Is this what you are talking about Jim?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296533#296533
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0422_149.jpg
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
Ken
If you take a look at the pictures on my wing building page you will how I
drilled almost every hole with hand drill and a simple drill
guide.http://westcoastpiet.com/wings.htm A small drill press does come in
handy for drilling some of the holes but I see no reason why you could not
drill all the holes by hand. For a description on how I drill hole see this
webpage http://westcoastpiet.com/drilling_holes.htm The only thing I do
different is to clamp the drill guide on when possible. Now I typically
drill the starting holes on my drill press but you could center punch the
spot then use a drill guide with a notch to straddle the fitting. Just
clapm it to a flat surface and your all set. Kind of like a poor mans drill
press. I bet you could find somone with a drill press to drill you some
holes to make severl drill guides.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar butt straps
Thanks everyone.
I found that that photo of Greg and Dale's beautiful plane too, on West
Coast piet. But I'm not smart enough to understand the significance of the
fittings meeting beneath the wing. They adjusted the angle of the straps,
made them longer...then what happens?
On a different topic, has anyone drilled their fittings with a hand drill? I
figure I can level the surface the metal is on, use the level on the drill
and get a pretty clean hole. Or I'm kidding myself and it's absolutely time
to invest in a drill press?
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
Is this what you are talking about Jim?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296533#296533
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0422_149.jpg
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
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le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
Drill press would be a real good idea, can get one from Harbor Freight for
less than the price of your hand drill.
http://www.harborfreight.com/garage-shop/stationary-drill-press/5-speed-drill-press-38119.html
rick
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 8:47 PM, Ken Chambers <ken.riffic@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks everyone.
>
> I found that that photo of Greg and Dale's beautiful plane too, on West
> Coast piet. But I'm not smart enough to understand the significance of the
> fittings meeting beneath the wing. They adjusted the angle of the straps,
> made them longer...then what happens?
>
> On a different topic, has anyone drilled their fittings with a hand drill?
> I figure I can level the surface the metal is on, use the level on the drill
> and get a pretty clean hole. Or I'm kidding myself and it's absolutely time
> to invest in a drill press?
>
>
> On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Is this what you are talking about Jim?
>>
>> --------
>> Mark - working on wings
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296533#296533
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0422_149.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ken Chambers
> 512-796-1798
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 23
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| Subject: | Metal pieces for wooden landing gear |
Clif
Finally! Now I know where I got the idea to building my landing gear the way
I did. it's been bugging me because I knew I had seen an inverted jig setup
before but could not find it again. Thanks for the inspiration. It worked
great.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear
This is how I did mine.
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol3.html
Clif
PS-Don't look at the tailwheel. I've changed to one I bought
at Arlington and modified. Got to put it up sometime.
( Now where did I put that 29 hour clock! :-)
Here is a link on how to do the gear....
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/construction_of_wood_gear.htm
Once you get the wood legs done, then you can make the metal parts to fit.
Rick Schreiber
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
The image here shows a small bench model drill press
being used to drill the holes for the landing gear plates.
You can do the same with anything that can be jigged
up on your bench.
Drill press would be a real good idea,
rick
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