Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 AM - Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear (Clif Dawson)
2. 06:10 AM - Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear (gboothe5@comcast.net)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Michael Perez)
4. 06:51 AM - Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear (Jim Markle)
5. 12:09 PM - Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear (Bill Church)
6. 01:46 PM - Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
7. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: spar butt straps (Ken Chambers)
8. 02:50 PM - Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Ed G.)
9. 03:55 PM - Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Bill Church)
10. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Gary Boothe)
11. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Ed G.)
12. 06:01 PM - corvair (airlion)
13. 06:33 PM - Supplementary plans and Keri-Ann Price (Russ)
14. 07:12 PM - Re: corvair (Gary Boothe)
15. 07:54 PM - Re: Supplementary plans and Keri-Ann Price (echobravo4)
16. 08:05 PM - Re: Supplementary plans and Keri-Ann Price (bubbleboy)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear |
You're welcome Chris.
I'm sending some pics of my new ( to me ) tailwheel.
The first is with the small wheel and modified arms to
hold it. The original was twice as big. The other two show
it with the horns lengthened to match the rudder horn.
Now it tracks the same as the rudder.
Clif
Thanks for the inspiration. It worked great.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear |
Clif,
I gotta say, in the 80 year history of Pietenpols, you may be the only Pietenpoler
building amongst the ferns and rhododendrons! I'll bet you also have a small
water feature, for further piece and tranquility...
Gary
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
I was pondering the use of a hard wood in place of the usual aluminum inser
t. Since the fuselage fitting is bolted through the spruce longeron, I thou
ght that maybe wood would be fine as the insert as well. My plan was to do
exactly what you said Clif...at the fuselage fitting, bolt through the stee
l fitting, through the aluminum strut, then through- the wood insert. Of
course, above-that, just as with the-metal inserts, there would be anot
her bolt to secure the wood to the strut.- Ed mentioned concerns about ma
terial around the bolt hole; I can make the fittings as long as I want, thu
s I can have as much material around the tops and bottoms of the bolts as n
eeded.
-
My concerns now are with making sure the wood will not rot, mold, crack, sp
lit, etc. I can varnish the wood prior to inserting it into the strut, but
that would effect the fit some after cutting it.- There is no easy way to
look inside the strut after it is installed to inspect either.--I now
concur it would be best to go with the standard aluminum type insert.
-
-
-- On Sun, 5/2/10, Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum cabane insert material
#yiv1659257443 .hmmessage P {
PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-TO
P:0px;}
#yiv1659257443 .hmmessage {
FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;FONT-SIZE:10pt;}
One question, are you going to bolt to the fuselage fittings-through the
cabane itself?
If so then why do you want anything in there? The only way an insert is goi
ng to add
strength in tension is if that insert has at least one more bolt through it
and the strut
an inch or so above the bottom hole. This is a good idea with aluminum. In
this case
it's best to use a bar of aluminum.
-
It's not like using wood struts. What you do there is add metal plates to t
he outside
with another bolt 1 1/2" above the one that bolts the strut to the fuselage
. This
icreases the area of the "plug" sides thus increasing the tearout resistanc
e dramaticaly.
-
In both cases the idea is to strengthen the strut.
-
Clif
There is only about 5/16" of material below-the bolt hole on the bottom f
itting (and above on the top fitting). With the loads and shock loads appli
ed-by the strut the bolt would pull out the small chunk of wood below the
bolt along the grain lines.- You would be much better off with-metal i
nserts.-- Ed G.
-
-
-
-
-
>
> I believe I have my posting woes fixed, so I am trying this again.
>
> I am using aluminum cabanes and am curious if a hard wood, (oak/ash) woul
d be suitable for the inserts. I know most use some type of steel or alumin
um, but since the fittings attach to soft spruce and ply wood gussets on th
e fuselage end, why not wood inside the cabanes?
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear |
And during Vancouver winters....there is a LOT of snow! So Clif also takes the
award for extremes!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: gboothe5@comcast.net
>Sent: May 3, 2010 8:05 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear
>
>
>Clif,
>
>I gotta say, in the 80 year history of Pietenpols, you may be the only Pietenpoler
building amongst the ferns and rhododendrons! I'll bet you also have a small
water feature, for further piece and tranquility...
>
>Gary
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
>Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 00:30:46
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear |
Well, not enough snow this winter when they hosted the Winter Olympics...
Jim wrote:
And during Vancouver winters....there is a LOT of snow!
BC
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296597#296597
Message 6
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Subject: | Metal pieces for wooden landing gear |
Cliff,
Are you Vancouver B.C. or Vancouver WA? I recognize the vegetation especially,
the moss growing on the ground from growing up in the Northwest.
Brian
SLC-UT
do no archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear
And during Vancouver winters....there is a LOT of snow! So Clif also takes the
award for extremes!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: gboothe5@comcast.net
>Sent: May 3, 2010 8:05 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear
>
>
>Clif,
>
>I gotta say, in the 80 year history of Pietenpols, you may be the only Pietenpoler
building amongst the ferns and rhododendrons! I'll bet you also have a small
water feature, for further piece and tranquility...
>
>Gary
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
>Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 00:30:46
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: spar butt straps |
Thanks everyone. Didn't realize drill presses are so cheap. Might be simpler
than drilling guides.
Question: What if you made the straps just like the plans and then closed up
the gap in the 3-piece wing by extending the plywood stiffener into the gap?
And then cut openings in the plywood for bolt access?
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
> The image here shows a small bench model drill press
> being used to drill the holes for the landing gear plates.
> You can do the same with anything that can be jigged
> up on your bench.
>
>
> Drill press would be a real good idea,
> rick
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 8
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Subject: | Aluminum cabane insert material |
When I responded I wasn't thinking that you had planned to drill through th
e aluminum strut=2C I was thinking you wanted to leave the wood sticking ou
t like they do with lift struts and just drill through the wood. Aluminum s
truts are fairly thick on the sides where the flat is on the inside and alu
minum is a very good bearing material. So=2C if you made the fuselage fitti
ngs slightly longer you may not need any filler block inside or If you were
worried about the bolt pressure collapseing the tubing you could just put
a spacer inside. Varnished or epoxy coated harwood should work for that I w
ould think. Cabane loads are really not all that high and being under the w
ing they shouldn't get much moisture inside. Ed G.
From: speedbrake@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum cabane insert material
I was pondering the use of a hard wood in place of the usual aluminum inser
t. Since the fuselage fitting is bolted through the spruce longeron=2C I th
ought that maybe wood would be fine as the insert as well. My plan was to d
o exactly what you said Clif...at the fuselage fitting=2C bolt through the
steel fitting=2C through the aluminum strut=2C then through the wood inser
t. Of course=2C above that=2C just as with the metal inserts=2C there would
be another bolt to secure the wood to the strut. Ed mentioned concerns ab
out material around the bolt hole=3B I can make the fittings as long as I w
ant=2C thus I can have as much material around the tops and bottoms of the
bolts as needed.
My concerns now are with making sure the wood will not rot=2C mold=2C crack
=2C split=2C etc. I can varnish the wood prior to inserting it into the str
ut=2C but that would effect the fit some after cutting it. There is no eas
y way to look inside the strut after it is installed to inspect either. I
now concur it would be best to go with the standard aluminum type insert.
-- On Sun=2C 5/2/10=2C Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca> wrote:
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum cabane insert material
One question=2C are you going to bolt to the fuselage fittings through the
cabane itself?
If so then why do you want anything in there? The only way an insert is goi
ng to add
strength in tension is if that insert has at least one more bolt through it
and the strut
an inch or so above the bottom hole. This is a good idea with aluminum. In
this case
it's best to use a bar of aluminum.
It's not like using wood struts. What you do there is add metal plates to t
he outside
with another bolt 1 1/2" above the one that bolts the strut to the fuselage
. This
icreases the area of the "plug" sides thus increasing the tearout resistanc
e dramaticaly.
In both cases the idea is to strengthen the strut.
Clif
There is only about 5/16" of material below the bolt hole on the bottom fit
ting (and above on the top fitting). With the loads and shock loads applied
by the strut the bolt would pull out the small chunk of wood below the bol
t along the grain lines. You would be much better off with metal inserts.
Ed G.
>
> I believe I have my posting woes fixed=2C so I am trying this again.
>
> I am using aluminum cabanes and am curious if a hard wood=2C (oak/ash) wo
uld be suitable for the inserts. I know most use some type of steel or alum
inum=2C but since the fittings attach to soft spruce and ply wood gussets o
n the fuselage end=2C why not wood inside the cabanes?
" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
This topic is confusing me.
First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood inside an aluminum
strut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this have already been mentioned.
But now I'm confused by this latest posting.
Ed wrote: "I was thinking you wanted to leave the wood sticking out like they do
with lift struts and just drill through the wood."
This statement creates two new questions in my mind:
1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum lift struts? I don't
think I've ever seen anything like that. anyone got a photo to illustrate what
that would look like?
2. Since "they" only drill through the wood, and not the metal, does that mean
that the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the aluminum? What is it - a friction
fit? or glued?
I must be misunderstanding something here (I hope).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296622#296622
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Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Bill,
I don't feel so bad - I was confused, too, but blamed it on the beer (one
beer all weekend!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 3:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
This topic is confusing me.
First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood inside an
aluminum strut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this have already been
mentioned.
But now I'm confused by this latest posting.
Ed wrote: "I was thinking you wanted to leave the wood sticking out like
they do with lift struts and just drill through the wood."
This statement creates two new questions in my mind:
1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum lift struts? I
don't think I've ever seen anything like that. anyone got a photo to
illustrate what that would look like?
2. Since "they" only drill through the wood, and not the metal, does that
mean that the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the aluminum? What is it
- a friction fit? or glued?
I must be misunderstanding something here (I hope).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296622#296622
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
well the whole thing was confusing to me too...but THEY usually bolt a squa
re aluminum or steel insert into an aluminum lift strut which sticks out of
the strut and is drilled for a bolt.
Thats what I origionally thought he wanted to do with wood instead of metal
. No wonder no one else tried to answer LOL..
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
> From: billspiet@sympatico.ca
> Date: Mon=2C 3 May 2010 15:50:27 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
ca>
>
> This topic is confusing me.
> First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood inside
an aluminum strut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this have already
been mentioned.
> But now I'm confused by this latest posting.
> Ed wrote: "I was thinking you wanted to leave the wood sticking out like
they do with lift struts and just drill through the wood."
> This statement creates two new questions in my mind:
> 1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum lift struts? I
don't think I've ever seen anything like that. anyone got a photo to illus
trate what that would look like?
> 2. Since "they" only drill through the wood=2C and not the metal=2C does
that mean that the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the aluminum? What
is it - a friction fit? or glued?
> I must be misunderstanding something here (I hope).
>
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296622#296622
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
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Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing power.
I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and loosing oil
just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and both failed on
number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under that area so now
I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not help. I am in the process
of taking the rt. side head off to check for a blown gasket or any other anamoly.
I did notice that the upper head bolts had not been torqued as I could
almost turn them by hand. To be continued. Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get
this resolved so I can fly to Brodhead.
Message 13
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Subject: | Supplementary plans and Keri-Ann Price |
Hi all,
I'm a new builder starting out in Australia. I'm starting on the ribs, and am trying
to get a hold of the supplementary plans that are floating around. I'm also
trying to get in touch with J.K.Wills as I'd like to use the UK plans and
Wills' wing design.
I'm mainly after Keri-Ann Price's plans for the passenger door and her other mods,
but since geocities closed last year I've got no idea how to get in touch
with her. Anyone know of an updated site?
Also, are there any other plans people recommend taking a look at?
All I've decided firmly on is that I'm using the Riblett 612 profile, and will
likely go down the corvair path.
As a last aside, I know there's a Piet down here in Tasmania, but I have no idea
who built it and I'm yet to try the SAAA. Anyone know some details?
Ta!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296641#296641
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Gardiner,
Glad you got down safely. Be sure to keep us updated...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair
Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing
power. I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and
loosing oil just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and
both failed on number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under
that area so now I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not
help. I am in the process of taking the rt. side head off to check for a
blown gasket or any other anamoly. I did notice that the upper head bolts
had not been torqued as I could almost turn them by hand. To be continued.
Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get this resolved so I can fly to Brodhead.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Supplementary plans and Keri-Ann Price |
Hi Russ, Welcome-
You can reach Keri-ann at this email:
keriannprice@hotmail.com
Her website is down put she can send you some pdf files with info
Earl
--------
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296648#296648
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Subject: | Re: Supplementary plans and Keri-Ann Price |
Hi Russ....welcome aboard! Im in Tamworth, Australia. I have also just started
and I have Jims plans and email etc here. Contact me through my website and I
can give you all the goss on where to get materials etc.
Scotty
www.scottyspietenpol.com
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296649#296649
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