Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:48 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Clif Dawson)
2. 01:43 AM - Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear (Clif Dawson)
3. 02:42 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Ed G.)
4. 04:59 AM - Re: corvair (Jerry Dotson)
5. 05:13 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Michael Perez)
6. 05:28 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Jim Markle)
7. 05:40 AM - Re: corvair (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
8. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
9. 05:55 AM - Milestone- Spray painting complete! (helspersew@aol.com)
10. 06:27 AM - Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Michael Perez)
11. 06:35 AM - Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (K5YAC)
12. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Michael Perez)
13. 06:49 AM - Re: corvair (TOM STINEMETZE)
14. 07:30 AM - Re: motor mount dimensions? - thanks (John Egan)
15. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Tim Willis)
16. 08:00 AM - Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Bill Church)
17. 08:07 AM - Re: corvair (Jim Ash)
18. 08:09 AM - Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
19. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Michael Perez)
20. 09:02 AM - Another straight axle gear question (chase143(at)aol.com)
21. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Ryan Mueller)
22. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (helspersew@aol.com)
23. 10:39 AM - Re: corvair (airlion)
24. 10:47 AM - Re: corvair (airlion)
25. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Michael Perez)
26. 10:51 AM - Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Bill Church)
27. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (gboothe5@comcast.net)
28. 10:54 AM - Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Rick Holland)
29. 10:56 AM - Re: corvair (airlion)
30. 10:58 AM - Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Bill Church)
31. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Tim Willis)
32. 11:28 AM - Re: corvair (Rick Holland)
33. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Ryan Mueller)
34. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Michael Perez)
35. 11:53 AM - I found a secret photo of Dan's completed paint scheme !!!!! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
36. 12:38 PM - Re: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Gene Rambo)
37. 12:57 PM - vacuum bagging seminar at Brodhead canceled (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
38. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Jim Markle)
39. 04:45 PM - Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Gary Boothe)
40. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material (Gary Boothe)
41. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (helspersew@aol.com)
42. 05:39 PM - Re: corvair (airlion)
43. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Gene Rambo)
44. 07:25 PM - Milestone- Spray painting complete! (santiago morete)
45. 07:31 PM - Mahogeny or Birch (bcolleran)
46. 07:53 PM - Re: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Tim Willis)
47. 07:55 PM - Re: corvair (Ryan Mueller)
48. 08:08 PM - Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! (Rick Holland)
49. 08:37 PM - Re: Mahogeny or Birch (gcardinal)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Well, let's see. First off, yes I do have a little fountain in a little
pool.
Next. about those winters. It does go below freezing, occasionaly.
Bill's
right, no snow until AFTER the games were over. What a pain in the
tu-tu that all was. No flying for two months! Lot's of sun, no wind, no
fly.
After the games? Rainy, cloudy and windy!
Bitch, bitch, bitch...and I haven't even made the porridge yet! :-)
So, I did up a little pic with the strut and insert. Really, the only
reason
to have such would be to add strength by having a second bolt higher
up the strut. In which case the inserts job is to connect the bolts.
Another thought. Since the strut is 3/4" wide and the space between the
straps is at least 1 1/4" then why use a bolt? One could use a clevis
pin.
After all you're not pulling anything tightly together at this
connection.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G.
well the whole thing was confusing to me too...but THEY usually bolt a
square aluminum or steel insert into an aluminum lift strut LOL..
> This topic is confusing me.
> First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood
inside an aluminum strut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this
have already been mentioned.
> But now I'm confused by this latest posting.
> 1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum lift
struts? > 2. Since "they" only drill through the wood, and not the
metal, does that mean that the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the
aluminum? What is it - a friction fit? or glued? I must be
misunderstanding something here (I hope).
Bill C.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Metal pieces for wooden landing gear |
British Columbia. We're famous for the same stuff as the other
Columbia, apparently. :-)
Clif
> Cliff,
Are you Vancouver B.C. or Vancouver WA? I recognize the vegetation
especially, the moss growing on the ground from growing up in the Northwest.
Brian
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
I guess Walt Evans is right. The quality of this list is headed for the toi
let. Not what it used to be. Ed G.
Do not archive
From: CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
Well=2C let's see. First off=2C yes I do have a little fountain in a little
pool.
Next. about those winters. It does go below freezing=2C occasionaly. Bill's
right=2C no snow until AFTER the games were over. What a pain in the
tu-tu that all was. No flying for two months! Lot's of sun=2C no wind=2C no
fly.
After the games? Rainy=2C cloudy and windy!
Bitch=2C bitch=2C bitch...and I haven't even made the porridge yet! :-)
So=2C I did up a little pic with the strut and insert. Really=2C the only r
eason
to have such would be to add strength by having a second bolt higher
up the strut. In which case the inserts job is to connect the bolts.
Another thought. Since the strut is 3/4" wide and the space between the
straps is at least 1 1/4" then why use a bolt? One could use a clevis pin.
After all you're not pulling anything tightly together at this connection.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G.
well the whole thing was confusing to me too...but THEY usually bolt a squa
re aluminum or steel insert into an aluminum lift strut LOL..
> This topic is confusing me.
> First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood inside
an aluminum strut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this have already
been mentioned.
> But now I'm confused by this latest posting.
> 1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum lift struts? >
2. Since "they" only drill through the wood=2C and not the metal=2C does t
hat mean that the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the aluminum? What i
s it - a friction fit? or glued? I must be misunderstanding something here
(I hope).
Bill C.
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot
mail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=P
ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
Message 4
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Gardiner sorry to hear of your trouble. Post what you find. Glad you and the Piet
are not damaged!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296686#296686
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
The drawing that Cliff provided is what I had envisioned. I was strictly ta
lking about the cabane struts in my original post, the design and function
of the wing/lift struts was not asked about.- I assumed that the aluminum
strut would need something inside of it for strength as well as to keep th
e bolt from collapsing it. I figured since the fitting that attaches to thi
s cabane strut is attached to spruce, that a hard wood would suffice for th
e insert. However, it was mentioned that a simple spacer, (tube) could be u
sed inside the strut to keep it from collapsing and that the strut itself i
s strong enough and an insert is not required. True?
-
Bottom line for me is that I am using aluminum cabanes and want to know the
best/lightest way to attach them to the fuselage fittings.
-
Thanks.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
I used to marvel at how small the cabanes are on Bernard Pietenpol's originals.
Then several years ago someone did the stress analysis and found less than 50#
of lift (tension) on each of the 4 cabanes.
What Clif has sketched here looks like a pretty neat solution. Sure makes my maple/mahogany
laminated cabanes with carbon fiber strips (vacuum bagged) in between
the laminates...a bit of overkill. Probably a LOT of overkill. I like
Clif's idea.
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Clif Dawson
Sent: May 4, 2010 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
Well, let's see. First off, yes I do have a little
fountain in a little pool.
Next. about those winters. It does go below freezing,
occasionaly. Bill's
right, no snow until AFTER the games were over. What a
pain in the
tu-tu that all was. No flying for two months! Lot's of
sun, no wind, no fly.
After the games? Rainy, cloudy and windy!
Bitch, bitch, bitch...and I haven't even made the porridge
yet! :-)
So, I did up a little pic with the strut and insert.
Really, the only reason
to have such would be to add strength by having a second
bolt higher
up the strut. In which case the inserts job is to connect
the bolts.
Another thought. Since the strut is 3/4" wide and the
space between the
straps is at least 1 1/4" then why use a bolt? One could
use a clevis pin.
After all you're not pulling anything tightly together at
this connection.
----- Original Message -----
From:
Ed G.
well the whole thing was confusing to me too...but THEY usually bolt
a square aluminum or steel insert into an aluminum lift
strut LOL..
> This topic is confusing
me.
> First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood
inside an aluminum strut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this have
already been mentioned.
> But now I'm confused by this latest
posting.
> 1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum
lift struts? > 2. Since "they" only drill through the wood, and not the
metal, does that mean that the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the
aluminum? What is it - a friction fit? or glued? I must be misunderstanding
something here (I hope).
Bill C.
Message 7
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Gardner,
Sorry and glad to hear of your adventure mishap. Sorry you had the engine
trouble but glad you landed safely and are able to affect repairs. One has
to wonder if the head bolts were not torqued, failed under compression load
or stripped out? I would hope the assembly process didn't miss the pattern
torque technique. I am curious though about learning the answer to if you
had used any thread locking compound on your head bolts, just a matter of
curiosity.
I am glad you landed safe, you and ship are okay and are able to tell us
about the mishap and yet return to fight another day!
Being in the safety profession for so many years I am interested in the
things we learn through solid investigation and the valuable lessons that we
are able to share with others.
John
Do not archive
In a message dated 5/3/2010 10:13:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe5@comcast.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Gardiner,
Glad you got down safely. Be sure to keep us updated...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing
power. I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and
loosing oil just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and
both failed on number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under
that area so now I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not
help. I am in the process of taking the rt. side head off to check for a
blown gasket or any other anamoly. I did notice that the upper head bolts
had not been torqued as I could almost turn them by hand. To be continued.
Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get this resolved so I can fly to
Brodhead.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
It keeps on coming back to the "vacuum bag", over and over and over again!
Jim they are really nice and the provided source information for mine along
with your sportsmanship in being able to take the continued knocks of old
and worn jokes. Thanks for sharing and allowing me the chance to take a
look, pics and time in shop with ya
Do not archive
John
In a message dated 5/4/2010 8:29:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle@mindspring.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
<jim_markle@mindspring.com>
I used to marvel at how small the cabanes are on Bernard Pietenpol's
originals. Then several years ago someone did the stress analysis and found
less than 50# of lift (tension) on each of the 4 cabanes.
What Clif has sketched here looks like a pretty neat solution. Sure makes
my maple/mahogany laminated cabanes with carbon fiber strips (vacuum
bagged) in between the laminates...a bit of overkill. Probably a LOT of
overkill. I like Clif's idea.
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Clif Dawson
Sent: May 4, 2010 2:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
Well, let's see. First off, yes I do have a little
fountain in a little pool.
Next. about those winters. It does go below freezing,
occasionaly. Bill's
right, no snow until AFTER the games were over. What a
pain in the
tu-tu that all was. No flying for two months! Lot's of
sun, no wind, no fly.
After the games? Rainy, cloudy and windy!
Bitch, bitch, bitch...and I haven't even made the porridge
yet! :-)
So, I did up a little pic with the strut and insert.
Really, the only reason
to have such would be to add strength by having a second
bolt higher
up the strut. In which case the inserts job is to connect
the bolts.
Another thought. Since the strut is 3/4" wide and the
space between the
straps is at least 1 1/4" then why use a bolt? One could
use a clevis pin.
After all you're not pulling anything tightly together at
this connection.
----- Original Message -----
From:
Ed G.
well the whole thing was confusing to me too...but THEY usually bolt
a square aluminum or steel insert into an aluminum lift
strut LOL..
> This topic is confusing
me.
> First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood
inside an aluminum strut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this have
already been mentioned.
> But now I'm confused by this latest
posting.
> 1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum
lift struts? > 2. Since "they" only drill through the wood, and not the
metal, does that mean that the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the
aluminum? What is it - a friction fit? or glued? I must be
misunderstanding
something here (I hope).
Bill C.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Well boys, after many weeks, I have now completed the final painting of NX
929DH. This has been the least enjoyable part of the whole build for me.
I guess because at this stage I am impatient, and painting is 99% tedious
preparation and 1% spraying. I am happy with my results (Stewart System),
not as good as it could have been, but there is a learning curve to spray
painting with only one chance at it, especially when you are spending so
much money per gallon (no opportunity for practice).
Now I am on to reassembly....what a joy it is!!!..... Finally!!! ......all
the misc. parts I have been saving in the cardboard box under my workbenc
h for up to 10 years. Last night made an inspection plate for the undersid
e of fuse, because I was one short. Pretty easy to make and it took only
two tries.
Still hope to make Brodhead. Advantage for me is Brodhead is so close I ca
n include it in my fly-off area....takes a little more pressure off for th
e deadline. Really need to put some more run time on my Model A since I ha
ve only run it for about an hour.
Lesson learned from Douwe is that I will wait for a windless, sunny, high-
pressure morning for the first flight, and resist the temptation to fly in
anything but a perfect situation. The grass runway here is very wide and
plenty long so plenty of opportunity to abort if I have to.
So keep working boys,...... little-by-little it all adds up.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Copy that Dan, well done! I am glad to hear you have seen the project throu
gh...soon you'll get to fly your creation...how cool is that!?
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
From: helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
Well boys, after many weeks, I have-now completed the final painting of N
X929DH. This has been the least enjoyable part of the whole build for me. I
guess because at this stage I am impatient, and painting is 99% tedious pr
eparation and 1% spraying. I am happy with my results (Stewart System), not
as good as it could have been, but there is a learning curve to spray pain
ting with only one chance at it, especially when you are spending so much m
oney per gallon (no opportunity for practice).
-
Now I am on to reassembly....what a joy it is!!!..... Finally!!!-......al
l the misc. parts I have been saving in the cardboard box under my workbenc
h for up to 10 years. Last night made an inspection plate for the underside
of fuse, because I was one short. Pretty easy to make and it took only two
tries.
-
Still hope to make Brodhead. Advantage for me is Brodhead is so close I can
include it in my fly-off area....takes a little more pressure off for the
deadline. Really need to put some more run time on my Model A since I have
only run it for about an hour.
-
Lesson learned from Douwe is that I will wait for a windless, sunny, high-p
ressure morning for the first flight, and resist the temptation to fly in a
nything but a perfect situation. The grass runway here is very wide and ple
nty long so plenty of opportunity to abort if I have to.
-
So keep working boys,...... little-by-little it all adds up.
-
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Sounds good Dan... can't wait to see it!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296704#296704
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
For those interested, attached is the exact dimensions of my struts.
Message 13
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One of our EAA chapter members had almost the same thing happen to him
with his Corvair / Sonex system. He was at about hour 20 and 15 miles
from the airport when the engine started losing power and the oil temp
started rising. He made it safely back to the airport but it was a near
thing. Anyway, he discovered a blown lower cylinder gasket (between the
jug and the case.) Not a particularly hard fix but one that should not
have been required. According to WW the most likely culprit was improper
torqueing of the head during assembly. He had not noticed any oil leakage
prior to the incident.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> 5/3/2010 7:56 PM >>>
Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing
power. I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and
loosing oil just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and
both failed on number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under
that area so now I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not
help. I am in the process of taking the rt. side head off to check for a
blown gasket or any other anamoly. I did notice that the upper head bolts
had not been torqued as I could almost turn them by hand. To be continued.
Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get this resolved so I can fly to
Brodhead.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: motor mount dimensions? - thanks |
Jack,=0A=0AThank you for sharing your weight & balance and providing me you
r motor mount length.=C2- I appreciate your help.=C2- Hope to see you a
t Brodhead.=0A=0Ajohn=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-l
ist@matronics.com=0ASent: Sat, May 1, 2010 5:46:57 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pieten
pol-List: motor mount dimensions?=0A=0A=0AJohn, I built my engine mount to
BHP=99s plans for the A65 Continental.=C2- Here is the W&B spreadsh
eet that I used.=C2- You can modify it to fit your own dimentions and wei
ghts.=0A=C2-=0AJack Phillips=0ANX899JP=0ARaleigh, NC=0A=C2-=0A=0A______
__________________________=0A=0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.
com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of John
Egan=0ASent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 5:16 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.
com=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: motor mount dimensions?=0A=C2-=0ABuilders,
=0A=C2-=0AI am building a long fuselage Aircamper, straight axle gear wit
h wire wheels,=C2-a J-3 fuel tank in the nose, and a 65 hp Continental en
gine with a wood prop.=C2- =0A=C2-=0ADo you guys recall the length of y
our motor mount, and would you share any weight and balance infomation? =0A
=C2-=0AYes, I'll complete=C2-a real w&b before flight.=0AI realize no t
wo are the same, however I am interested in seeing the=C2-data.=0AI see B
HP's plans call out=C2- an 11-3/16" long mount.=0A=C2-=0Athanks all,=0A
=C2-=0Ajohn egan=0AGreenville , WI=0Aneed to make a motor mount=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A =C2-=0A =C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution=0A=0A=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
So, Michael, since your entire cabane fits within the steel fingers of the
attachment fittings-- those off the wing and those off the longerons, you can
nestle the cabane down within those fingers and may not need any bar at all.
However, since Al. is not as hard as steel, I would stick an aluminum bar in there,
and make it long enough to run two bolts through it-- one above the other.
This will keep the Al. bar from "working" on the Al. inside the tube over
a long time, with vibration and various loads.
I have done something like that in my Al. cabanes, but have extended the bar
out, for my cabane streamline tubes are the next size larger, so that a 1" X
1" Al bar is a snug fit inside.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: May 4, 2010 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
For those interested, attached is the exact dimensions of my struts.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Soon will come the day that we will all finally get to know Dan's secret color
scheme that has piqued many curiosities. What other color(s) go with that mauve
tailgear? Enquiring minds want to know.
Way to go, Dan. Must be exciting.
Excellent plan regarding that first flight. Clear and calm, all the way.
Bill C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296722#296722
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The Corvair engine is sensitive to head torquing sequence. Use the one in 'How
to Keep Your Corvair Alive'. I start with finger tight, then run through the whole
thing in 5 ft-pound increments until they're fully tight. I'm guessing this
is standard shtick if you're one of those following William Wynne's lead.
There are no new Corvair engines and the probability of finding one that hasn't
already been messed with is low. About the best you can hope for is one that
was rebuilt by somebody who knew what they were doing (none of this should be
new to the Corvair Pieters). The reason I mention all this is because I did a
head job on a '66 coupe back in the mid 90's. While on the last pass of my torquing
sequence, one of the studs let go. Some previous knumbnuts had stripped
one out of the block and used a helicoil insert to fix it, which I didn't know
about until then. Unfortunately, they only used one insert instead of stacking
two, so the stud only had half the thread bite it should have. I don't know
how they got it torqued down the first time (I suspect they didn't take it all
the way, and I've never checked torques on disassembly).
Your oil temp thing concerns me. I'm not picturing how this relates to your cylinder
problem and I suspect you may have two different problems. I suppose it's
possible a busted ring is allowing blow-by, but that's a lot of heat when you've
got no compression in that jug. The basic in-out rules of heat flow come
to mind; either you're heating it up faster than you should, or not removing it
as fast as you should. Verify somehow you've got flow through your oil cooler,
both oil and air. On the shroud system used in the cars, it was common for
leaves and mice nests to pile up on top of the cooler and restrict air flow. It
was also common for backyard mechanics to seal up leaky oil cooler seals with
blue goo, which seals 'em up real nice, but the good also oozes into the inside
of the seal and restricts the oil flow.
Jim Ash, ~(CS)^2
-----Original Message-----
>From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: May 3, 2010 8:56 PM
>To: pietenpol <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair
>
>
>Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing power.
I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and loosing oil
just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and both failed on
number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under that area so now
I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not help. I am in the process
of taking the rt. side head off to check for a blown gasket or any other
anamoly. I did notice that the upper head bolts had not been torqued as I could
almost turn them by hand. To be continued. Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get
this resolved so I can fly to Brodhead.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Dan, I cant wait to see it, I know its going to be a real show stopper!
John
Do not archive
In a message dated 5/4/2010 8:56:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
helspersew@aol.com writes:
Well boys, after many weeks, I have now completed the final painting of
NX929DH. This has been the least enjoyable part of the whole build for me. I
guess because at this stage I am impatient, and painting is 99% tedious
preparation and 1% spraying. I am happy with my results (Stewart System), not
as good as it could have been, but there is a learning curve to spray
painting with only one chance at it, especially when you are spending so much
money per gallon (no opportunity for practice).
Now I am on to reassembly....what a joy it is!!!..... Finally!!! ......all
the misc. parts I have been saving in the cardboard box under my workbench
for up to 10 years. Last night made an inspection plate for the underside
of fuse, because I was one short. Pretty easy to make and it took only two
tries.
Still hope to make Brodhead. Advantage for me is Brodhead is so close I
can include it in my fly-off area....takes a little more pressure off for the
deadline. Really need to put some more run time on my Model A since I have
only run it for about an hour.
Lesson learned from Douwe is that I will wait for a windless, sunny,
high-pressure morning for the first flight, and resist the temptation to fly in
anything but a perfect situation. The grass runway here is very wide and
plenty long so plenty of opportunity to abort if I have to.
So keep working boys,...... little-by-little it all adds up.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Thanks Tim for your thought out-reply.-What you mention is what my orig
inal idea was as well. I guess I'll use an aluminum insert and two bolts. I
believe this is still a nice light package and strong.
-
-
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
et>
- - So, Michael, since your entire cabane fits within the steel fingers
of the attachment fittings-- those off the wing and those off the longeron
s, you can nestle the cabane down within those fingers and may not need any
bar at all.- However, since Al. is not as hard as steel, I would stick a
n aluminum bar in there, and make it long enough to run two bolts through i
t-- one above the other.- This will keep the Al. bar from "working" on th
e Al. inside the tube over a long time, with vibration and various loads.
- - I have done something like that in my Al. cabanes, but have extende
d the bar out, for my cabane streamline tubes are the next size larger, so
that a 1" X 1" Al bar is a snug fit inside.-
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: May 4, 2010 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
For those interested, attached is the exact dimensions of my struts.
le, List Admin.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Another straight axle gear question |
Starting on my gear. I previously read in the archives (I can't find it now), something
to the effect: "...with the plane on the ground, the straight axle ash
block is parallel to the ground..." Q- Shouldn't the block be parallel to the
deck angle (using the top longerons)? Or am I miss interpreting this?
Also, I know the block angles should converge on the tailwheel/skid. Q- Is this
angle intersection precise, and if so what is the recommended location? Middle
of the tail wheel, forward edge of the tail wheel, center point of the back
of the fuselage? Thanks.
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296730#296730
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Boooring! I for one am a bit disappointed you could not settle on something
more exotic. ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> Thanks Tim for your thought out reply. What you mention is what my original
> idea was as well. I guess I'll use an aluminum insert and two bolts. I
> believe this is still a nice light package and strong.
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 5/4/10, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 10:43 AM
>
> timothywillis@earthlink.net<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> >
>
> So, Michael, since your entire cabane fits within the steel fingers of
> the attachment fittings-- those off the wing and those off the longerons,
> you can nestle the cabane down within those fingers and may not need any bar
> at all. However, since Al. is not as hard as steel, I would stick an
> aluminum bar in there, and make it long enough to run two bolts through it--
> one above the other. This will keep the Al. bar from "working" on the Al.
> inside the tube over a long time, with vibration and various loads.
> I have done something like that in my Al. cabanes, but have extended
> the bar out, for my cabane streamline tubes are the next size larger, so
> that a 1" X 1" Al bar is a snug fit inside.
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Perez
> Sent: May 4, 2010 8:28 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
>
> For those interested, attached is the exact dimensions of mynbsp; -->
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> _sp; --> ht= --> <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Hi Bill,
I abandon that color scheme about 6 months ago. Decided I could not live
with it forever, and went with a more period scheme. Only Gene Rambo know
s, and if he is inclined to reveal it, I'll have to stop him, with deadly
force if necessary. I know he is sore about it, because he thinks I stole
it from him, but I really came up with it first. :o)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:56 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
a>
Soon will come the day that we will all finally get to know Dan's secret
color
cheme that has piqued many curiosities. What other color(s) go with that
mauve
ailgear? Enquiring minds want to know.
Way to go, Dan. Must be exciting.
Excellent plan regarding that first flight. Clear and calm, all the way.
Bill C
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296722#296722
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Message 23
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Thanks tom, Ijust took the head off on the right side and there was lot of blow
by. The cy head gskets appear to be ok. Also all the bolts and nuts on the
rt side had not been torqued as I could turn no 3 by hand and the others with
just a little pressure with a wrench
________________________________
From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:29:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair
One of our EAA chapter members had almost the same thing happen to him with his
Corvair / Sonex system. He was at about hour 20 and 15 miles from the airport
when the engine started losing power and the oil temp started rising. He made
it safely back to the airport but it was a near thing. Anyway, he discovered
a blown lower cylinder gasket (between the jug and the case.) Not a particularly
hard fix but one that should not have been required. According to WW the
most likely culprit was improper torqueing of the head during assembly. He
had not noticed any oil leakage prior to the incident.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> 5/3/2010 7:56 PM >>>
Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing power.
I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and loosing oil
just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and both failed on
number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under that area so now
I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not help. I am in the process
of taking the rt. side head off to check for a blown gasket or any other anamoly.
I did notice that the upper head bolts had not been torqued as I could
almost turn them by hand. To be continued. Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get
this resolved so I can fly to Brodhead.
Message 24
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|
Thanks Jim, I am looking into it,. Prior to this, the oil temps appeared to be
normal but I did have an oil leak. I did replace the pan gasket
but that is not the problem. Gardiner Mason
----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:13:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair
The Corvair engine is sensitive to head torquing sequence. Use the one in 'How
to Keep Your Corvair Alive'. I start with finger tight, then run through the whole
thing in 5 ft-pound increments until they're fully tight. I'm guessing this
is standard shtick if you're one of those following William Wynne's lead.
There are no new Corvair engines and the probability of finding one that hasn't
already been messed with is low. About the best you can hope for is one that
was rebuilt by somebody who knew what they were doing (none of this should be
new to the Corvair Pieters). The reason I mention all this is because I did a
head job on a '66 coupe back in the mid 90's. While on the last pass of my torquing
sequence, one of the studs let go. Some previous knumbnuts had stripped
one out of the block and used a helicoil insert to fix it, which I didn't know
about until then. Unfortunately, they only used one insert instead of stacking
two, so the stud only had half the thread bite it should have. I don't know
how they got it torqued down the first time (I suspect they didn't take it all
the way, and I've never checked torques on disassembly).
Your oil temp thing concerns me. I'm not picturing how this relates to your cylinder
problem and I suspect you may have two different problems. I suppose it's
possible a busted ring is allowing blow-by, but that's a lot of heat when you've
got no compression in that jug. The basic in-out rules of heat flow come
to mind; either you're heating it up faster than you should, or not removing it
as fast as you should. Verify somehow you've got flow through your oil cooler,
both oil and air. On the shroud system used in the cars, it was common for
leaves and mice nests to pile up on top of the cooler and restrict air flow. It
was also common for backyard mechanics to seal up leaky oil cooler seals with
blue goo, which seals 'em up real nice, but the good also oozes into the inside
of the seal and restricts the oil flow.
Jim Ash, ~(CS)^2
-----Original Message-----
>From: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: May 3, 2010 8:56 PM
>To: pietenpol <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair
>
>
>Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing power.
I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and loosing oil
just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and both failed on
number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under that area so now
I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not help. I am in the process
of taking the rt. side head off to check for a blown gasket or any other
anamoly. I did notice that the upper head bolts had not been torqued as I could
almost turn them by hand. To be continued. Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get
this resolved so I can fly to Brodhead.
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Sorry Ryan, I'm going boring on the struts...saving exotic for the engine!
(Think something that is not internal combustion!)- 8^)
-
do not archive
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
Boooring! I for one am a bit disappointed you could not settle on something
more exotic.- ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> w
rote:
Thanks Tim for your thought out-reply.-What you mention is what my orig
inal idea was as well. I guess I'll use an aluminum insert and two bolts. I
believe this is still a nice light package and strong.
-
-
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
et>
- - So, Michael, since your entire cabane fits within the steel fingers
of the attachment fittings-- those off the wing and those off the longeron
s, you can nestle the cabane down within those fingers and may not need any
bar at all.- However, since Al. is not as hard as steel, I would stick a
n aluminum bar in there, and make it long enough to run two bolts through i
t-- one above the other.- This will keep the Al. bar from "working" on th
e Al. inside the tube over a long time, with vibration and various loads.
- - I have done something like that in my Al. cabanes, but have extende
d the bar out, for my cabane streamline tubes are the next size larger, so
that a 1" X 1" Al bar is a snug fit inside.-
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: May 4, 2010 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
For those interested, attached is the exact dimensions of mynbsp;---->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
_sp;---> ht=- - - - - - - - - - ---->
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
So, if you've abandoned the old color scheme, Dan, I guess you could share it with
us now. I've got five bucks says the other color was going to be hot pink.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296744#296744
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
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IEZvcnVtIC0NCi09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRv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RHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLg0KLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2Nv
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PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQoNCg0K
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Great news Dan, I am covering the fuselage now (using Stewart EcoBond) and
will also be painting soon.
rick
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:52 AM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Well boys, after many weeks, I have now completed the final painting of
> NX929DH. This has been the least enjoyable part of the whole build for me. I
> guess because at this stage I am impatient, and painting is 99% tedious
> preparation and 1% spraying. I am happy with my results (Stewart System),
> not as good as it could have been, but there is a learning curve to spray
> painting with only one chance at it, especially when you are spending so
> much money per gallon (no opportunity for practice).
>
> Now I am on to reassembly....what a joy it is!!!..... Finally!!! ......all
> the misc. parts I have been saving in the cardboard box under my workbench
> for up to 10 years. Last night made an inspection plate for the underside of
> fuse, because I was one short. Pretty easy to make and it took only two
> tries.
>
> Still hope to make Brodhead. Advantage for me is Brodhead is so close I can
> include it in my fly-off area....takes a little more pressure off for the
> deadline. Really need to put some more run time on my Model A since I have
> only run it for about an hour.
>
> Lesson learned from Douwe is that I will wait for a windless, sunny,
> high-pressure morning for the first flight, and resist the temptation to fly
> in anything but a perfect situation. The grass runway here is *very *wide
> and plenty long so plenty of opportunity to abort if I have to.
>
> So keep working boys,...... little-by-little it all adds up.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 29
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John. Upon disasembly the head bolts had not been torqued.Wm Wynne built the engine
for me after I brought it down.Also the oil temps were normal for the first
few hours. I don't see any indication that loctite had been used. Gardiner
Mason
________________________________
From: "AMsafetyC@aol.com" <AMsafetyC@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 8:35:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair
Gardner,
Sorry and glad to hear of your adventure mishap. Sorry you had the engine
trouble but glad you landed safely and are able to affect repairs. One has to
wonder if the head bolts were not torqued, failed under compression load or
stripped out? I would hope the assembly process didn't miss the pattern torque
technique. I am curious though about learning the answer to if you had
used any thread locking compound on your head bolts, just a matter of
curiosity.
I am glad you landed safe, you and ship are okay and are able to tell us
about the mishap and yet return to fight another day!
Being in the safety profession for so many years I am interested in the
things we learn through solid investigation and the valuable lessons that we are
able to share with others.
John
Do not archive
In a message dated 5/3/2010 10:13:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gboothe5@comcast.net writes:
-->
> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe"
> <gboothe5@comcast.net>
>
>Gardiner,
>
>Glad you got down safely.
> Be sure to keep us updated...
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool,
> Ca.
>Pietenpol
>WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>Tail done, Fuselage on
> gear
>(18 ribs down.)
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original
> Message-----
>From:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of airlion
>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 5:57 PM
>To:
> pietenpol
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair
>
>--> Pietenpol-List
> message posted by: airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
>
>Well guys,
> after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing
>power. I
> made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and
>loosing oil
> just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test
> and
>both failed on number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak
> under
>that area so now I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did
> not
>help. I am in the process of taking the rt. side head off to check for
> a
>blown gasket or any other anamoly. I did notice that the upper head
> bolts
>had not been torqued as I could almost turn them by hand. To be
> continued.
>Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get this resolved so I can fly
> to
>================================================ Use the
>ties
>Day
>================================================ - MATRONICS WEB
FORUMS
>================================================ - List Contribution
Web Site
>sp;
>
>==================================================
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Ryan, do you mean something like using Titanium inserts, and then sealing the ends
of the strut assemblies and filling them with Helium? Strong and lightweight.
BC
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296750#296750
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Michael, how exciting. Pls show pix of your steam turbine!
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: May 4, 2010 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
Sorry Ryan, I'm going boring on the struts...saving exotic for the engine! (Think
something that is not internal combustion!) 8^)
<clip>
Message 32
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Strange Gardiner, I could understand maybe one stud pulling loose from the
block resulting in a loose head nut but several is hard to believe. If you
are lucky maybe you can just re-torque both heads and verify no studs are
pulling out of the block.
rick
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:29 AM, airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Thanks tom, Ijust took the head off on the right side and there was lot of
> blow by. The cy head gskets appear to be ok. Also all the bolts and nuts on
> the rt side had not been torqued as I could turn no 3 by hand and the others
> with just a little pressure with a wrench
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
> *To:* pietenpol <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tue, May 4, 2010 9:29:56 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair
>
> *One of our EAA chapter members had almost the same thing happen to him
> with his Corvair / Sonex system. He was at about hour 20 and 15 miles from
> the airport when the engine started losing power and the oil temp started
> rising. He made it safely back to the airport but it was a near thing.
> Anyway, he discovered a blown lower cylinder gasket (between the jug and the
> case.) Not a particularly hard fix but one that should not have been
> required. According to WW the most likely culprit was improper torqueing of
> the head during assembly. He had not noticed any oil leakage prior to the
> incident.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *McPherson, KS.*
>
>
> >>> airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> 5/3/2010 7:56 PM >>>
>
> Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing
> power. I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and
> loosing oil just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and
> both failed on number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under
> that area so now I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not
> help. I am in the process of taking the rt. side head off to check for a
> blown gasket or any other anamoly. I did notice that the upper head bolts
> had not been torqued as I could almost turn them by hand. To be continued.
> Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get this resolved so I can fly to Brodhead.
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Nah, that can't be it. Someone's already done it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6NFmcnW-8
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/steamplane/steamplane.htm
do not archive
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote:
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Michael, how exciting. Pls show pix of your steam turbine!
> Tim in central TX
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Perez
> Sent: May 4, 2010 1:42 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
>
> Sorry Ryan, I'm going boring on the struts...saving exotic for the engine!
> (Think something that is not internal combustion!) 8^)
>
> <clip>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
Will do Tim, as soon as I redesign the thing, modify it, make it light, and
...
-
Message 35
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| Subject: | I found a secret photo of Dan's completed paint scheme |
!!!!!
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Hey, Hey!! What did I do to get to be the target of this???
I don't think you stole it, I think great minds think alike. I am still
going with it because I already have all of the dope.
Sorry ;(
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com<mailto:helspersew@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
Hi Bill,
I abandon that color scheme about 6 months ago. Decided I could not
live with it forever, and went with a more period scheme. Only Gene
Rambo knows, and if he is inclined to reveal it, I'll have to stop him,
with deadly force if necessary. I know he is sore about it, because he
thinks I stole it from him, but I really came up with it first. :o)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:56 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
<billspiet@sympatico.ca<mailto:billspiet@sympatico.ca>>
Soon will come the day that we will all finally get to know Dan's secret
color
scheme that has piqued many curiosities. What other color(s) go with
that mauve
tailgear? Enquiring minds want to know.
Way to go, Dan. Must be exciting.
Excellent plan regarding that first flight. Clear and calm, all the way.
Bill C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296722#296722<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296722#296722>
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 37
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| Subject: | vacuum bagging seminar at Brodhead canceled |
I heard since Jim Markle won't be able to attend this year to present his v
acuum bagging
forum that someone has stepped up to give an old bag demonstration. Is
this accurate info ?
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
I've asked that same question more than once....John Recine probably had SOMETHING
to do with it.... :-)
Hey, Hey!! What did I do to get to be the target of this???
I don't think you stole it, I think great minds think alike. I am
still going with it because I already have all of the dope.
Sorry ;(
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:42
PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:
Milestone- Spray painting complete!
Hi Bill,
I abandon that color scheme about 6 months ago. Decided I could not live
with it forever, and went with a more period scheme. Only Gene Rambo knows,
and if he is inclined to reveal it, I'll have to stop him, with deadly force
if necessary. I know he is sore about it, because he thinks I stole it from
him, but I really came up with it first. :o)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original
Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:56 am
Subject:
Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
Soon will come the day that we will all finally get to know Dan's secret color
scheme that has piqued many curiosities. What other color(s) go with that mauve
tailgear? Enquiring minds want to know.
Way to go, Dan. Must be exciting.
Excellent plan regarding that first flight. Clear and calm, all the way.
Bill C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296722#296722
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 39
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| Subject: | Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Rick,
My memory often fails me. I thought you were going to paint with house
paint? Are you not the one who did the sample piece a couple years ago for
weather testing?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
Great news Dan, I am covering the fuselage now (using Stewart EcoBond) and
will also be painting soon.
rick
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:52 AM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
Well boys, after many weeks, I have now completed the final painting of
NX929DH. This has been the least enjoyable part of the whole build for me. I
guess because at this stage I am impatient, and painting is 99% tedious
preparation and 1% spraying. I am happy with my results (Stewart System),
not as good as it could have been, but there is a learning curve to spray
painting with only one chance at it, especially when you are spending so
much money per gallon (no opportunity for practice).
Now I am on to reassembly....what a joy it is!!!..... Finally!!! ......all
the misc. parts I have been saving in the cardboard box under my workbench
for up to 10 years. Last night made an inspection plate for the underside of
fuse, because I was one short. Pretty easy to make and it took only two
tries.
Still hope to make Brodhead. Advantage for me is Brodhead is so close I can
include it in my fly-off area....takes a little more pressure off for the
deadline. Really need to put some more run time on my Model A since I have
only run it for about an hour.
Lesson learned from Douwe is that I will wait for a windless, sunny,
high-pressure morning for the first flight, and resist the temptation to fly
in anything but a perfect situation. The grass runway here is very wide and
plenty long so plenty of opportunity to abort if I have to.
So keep working boys,...... little-by-little it all adds up.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum cabane insert material |
That whole film is a lie!!! I'm in Oakland right now, and I guarantee it
doesn't look anything like that.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
Nah, that can't be it. Someone's already done it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6NFmcnW-8
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/steamplane/steamplane.htm
do not archive
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
wrote:
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Michael, how exciting. Pls show pix of your steam turbine!
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: May 4, 2010 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material
Sorry Ryan, I'm going boring on the struts...saving exotic for the engine!
(Think something that is not internal combustion!) 8^)
<clip>
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
The other color was a Nassau Blue. I saw it on a biplane that was featured
on the cover of S.A. a while back. Very hard colors to match and they wer
e going to be special mix. Too much pressure to get them just right and I
am glad I changed. Very happy with my new secret paint job. :O)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 12:47 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
a>
So, if you've abandoned the old color scheme, Dan, I guess you could share
it
ith us now. I've got five bucks says the other color was going to be hot
pink.
BC
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296744#296744
========================
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Message 42
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Rick, since I don't trust this engine right now , I am going to take it down to
Bill Clap in Valdosts Ga. The whole right side of the engine had not been torqued.
Thanks for the reply, Gardiner
________________________________
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 2:15:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair
Strange Gardiner, I could understand maybe one stud pulling loose from the block
resulting in a loose head nut but several is hard to believe. If you are lucky
maybe you can just re-torque both heads and verify no studs are pulling out
of the block.
rick
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:29 AM, airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Thanks tom, Ijust took the head off on the right side and there was lot of blow
by. The cy head gskets appear to be ok. Also all the bolts and nuts on the
rt side had not been torqued as I could turn no 3 by hand and the others with
just a little pressure with a wrench
>
>
________________________________
From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
>To: pietenpol <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:29:56 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair
>
>
>One of our EAA chapter members had almost the same thing happen to him with his
Corvair / Sonex system. He was at about hour 20 and 15 miles from the airport
when the engine started losing power and the oil temp started rising. He made
it safely back to the airport but it was a near thing. Anyway, he discovered
a blown lower cylinder gasket (between the jug and the case.) Not a particularly
hard fix but one that should not have been required. According to WW
the most likely culprit was improper torqueing of the head during assembly. He
had not noticed any oil leakage prior to the incident.
>
>Stinemetze
>McPherson, KS.
>
>
>>>> airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> 5/3/2010 7:56 PM >>>
>
>Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and loosing power.
I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky hi., and loosing oil
just a little. Today, I did a compression and leak test and both failed on
number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have had a leak under that area so now
I know why. I had replaced the oil pan but that did not help. I am in the process
of taking the rt. side head off to check for a blown gasket or any other
anamoly. I did notice that the upper head bolts had not been torqued as I could
almost turn them by hand. To be continued. Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get
this resolved so I can fly to Brodhead.
>
>
>
>
>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>tp://forums.matronics.com
>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
I don't know about Nassau Blue, but my Travel Air is Bahama Blue. That
is a standard Randolph color and n o problem to match. That is why I
went with it, they said it was indistinguishable from Travel Air Blue.
Maybe you should go with that and leave "my" color scheme alone!!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com<mailto:helspersew@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
The other color was a Nassau Blue. I saw it on a biplane that was
featured on the cover of S.A. a while back. Very hard colors to match
and they were going to be special mix. Too much pressure to get them
just right and I am glad I changed. Very happy with my new secret paint
job. :O)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 12:47 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
<billspiet@sympatico.ca<mailto:billspiet@sympatico.ca>>
So, if you've abandoned the old color scheme, Dan, I guess you could
share it
with us now. I've got five bucks says the other color was going to be
hot pink.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296744#296744<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296744#296744>
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
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on>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Dan, I think I can also ruin the surprise hehehe :-)
Congratulations on-the progress!
-
Santiago
-
-
Do not archive=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Mahogeny or Birch |
Mahogeny or birch for gussets and the plywood used on the plane?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296795#296795
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Conrats, Dan, on getting this far. It is almost together and ready to go. Seriously.
On another note, just remember guys, John Wayne-- "Flying Leathernecks," "Flying
Tigers"-- never knew what "mauve" and "puce" were, and would have suspected
the orientation of anyone who did.
Tim in central TX
(who knows Dan Helsper well enough to pull his leg)
Pleeeeeze do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo
Sent: May 4, 2010 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
I don't know about Nassau Blue, but my Travel Air is Bahama Blue. That is a standard
Randolph color and n o problem to match. That is why I went with it, they
said it was indistinguishable from Travel Air Blue. Maybe you should go with
that and leave "my" color scheme alone!!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
The other color was a Nassau Blue. I saw it on a biplane that was featured on the
cover of S.A. a while back. Very hard colors to match and they were going to
be special mix. Too much pressure to get them just right and I am glad I changed.
Very happy with my new secret paint job. :O)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Do not archive
<clip>
Message 47
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|
Gardiner,
You had your engine completely assembled by WW? Since William built the
engine, have you called him about it? He has a reputation of providing
pretty good support for stuff that he builds. On the other hand, I'm
sure Bill Clapp would salivate over the opportunity to steal away a WW
customer. Good luck either way. Sorry to hear about your woes.
Ryan
On May 4, 2010, at 7:35 PM, airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Rick, since I don't trust this engine right now , I am going to take
it down to Bill Clap in Valdosts Ga. The whole right side of the engine
had not been torqued. Thanks for the reply, Gardiner
>
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 2:15:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair
>
> Strange Gardiner, I could understand maybe one stud pulling loose from
the block resulting in a loose head nut but several is hard to believe.
If you are lucky maybe you can just re-torque both heads and verify no
studs are pulling out of the block.
>
> rick
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:29 AM, airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> Thanks tom, Ijust took the head off on the right side and there was
lot of blow by. The cy head gskets appear to be ok. Also all the bolts
and nuts on the rt side had not been torqued as I could turn no 3 by
hand and the others with just a little pressure with a wrench
>
> From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS@mcpcity.com>
> To: pietenpol <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 9:29:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair
>
> One of our EAA chapter members had almost the same thing happen to him
with his Corvair / Sonex system. He was at about hour 20 and 15 miles
from the airport when the engine started losing power and the oil temp
started rising. He made it safely back to the airport but it was a near
thing. Anyway, he discovered a blown lower cylinder gasket (between the
jug and the case.) Not a particularly hard fix but one that should not
have been required. According to WW the most likely culprit was
improper torqueing of the head during assembly. He had not noticed any
oil leakage prior to the incident.
>
> Stinemetze
> McPherson, KS.
>
>
> >>> airlion <airlion@bellsouth.net> 5/3/2010 7:56 PM >>>
>
> Well guys, after 17 hrs flying time my engine started missing and
loosing power. I made it to the ground ok and oil temp was climbing sky
hi., and loosing oil just a little. Today, I did a compression and
leak test and both failed on number 3 cylinder. Since the get go I have
had a leak under that area so now I know why. I had replaced the oil pan
but that did not help. I am in the process of taking the rt. side head
off to check for a blown gasket or any other anamoly. I did notice that
the upper head bolts had not been torqued as I could almost turn them by
hand. To be continued. Gardiner Mason. PS I hope I can get this resolved
so I can fly to Brodhead.
>
>
>
>
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Milestone- Spray painting complete! |
Correct, EcoBond is the sticky stuff to attach the fabric. Am using the
Stewart stuff to paint my aluminum parts and latex on the fabric (using the
proven Bell method). And concerning the test panel, it is still in great
shape, will have been out on that post at 6700 ft. facing true South for
five years this August.
rick
On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Rick,
>
>
> My memory often fails me. I thought you were going to paint with house
> paint? Are you not the one who did the sample piece a couple years ago for
> weather testing?
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, CA
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> 18 ribs done
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 04, 2010 10:48 AM
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Milestone- Spray painting complete!
>
>
> Great news Dan, I am covering the fuselage now (using Stewart EcoBond) and
> will also be painting soon.
>
> rick
>
> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 6:52 AM, <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Well boys, after many weeks, I have now completed the final painting of
> NX929DH. This has been the least enjoyable part of the whole build for me. I
> guess because at this stage I am impatient, and painting is 99% tedious
> preparation and 1% spraying. I am happy with my results (Stewart System),
> not as good as it could have been, but there is a learning curve to spray
> painting with only one chance at it, especially when you are spending so
> much money per gallon (no opportunity for practice).
>
>
> Now I am on to reassembly....what a joy it is!!!..... Finally!!! ......all
> the misc. parts I have been saving in the cardboard box under my workbench
> for up to 10 years. Last night made an inspection plate for the underside of
> fuse, because I was one short. Pretty easy to make and it took only two
> tries.
>
>
> Still hope to make Brodhead. Advantage for me is Brodhead is so close I can
> include it in my fly-off area....takes a little more pressure off for the
> deadline. Really need to put some more run time on my Model A since I have
> only run it for about an hour.
>
>
> Lesson learned from Douwe is that I will wait for a windless, sunny,
> high-pressure morning for the first flight, and resist the temptation to fly
> in anything but a perfect situation. The grass runway here is *very *wide
> and plenty long so plenty of opportunity to abort if I have to.
>
>
> So keep working boys,...... little-by-little it all adds up.
>
>
> Dan Helsper
>
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
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>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Mahogeny or Birch |
Builder's choice. They are both acceptable.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bcolleran" <bcolleran@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 9:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mahogeny or Birch
>
> Mahogeny or birch for gussets and the plywood used on the plane?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296795#296795
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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