Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:06 AM - Re: Mahogeny or Birch (dgaldrich)
2. 11:07 AM - Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming (Tim Willis)
3. 11:42 AM - Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming (H RULE)
4. 12:23 PM - Question regarding control surface travel (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
5. 12:27 PM - Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming (gtche98)
6. 02:51 PM - Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming (dgaldrich)
7. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming (H RULE)
8. 04:40 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming (John Recine)
9. 07:12 PM - Re: Mahogeny or Birch (K5YAC)
10. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Mahogeny or Birch (Gary Boothe)
11. 09:28 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming (H RULE)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Mahogeny or Birch |
If not specified by the vendor as "water and boil proof" suggest a "boil" test
to make sure the glue is up to snuff. Stick a sample in boiling water for 10
minutes (iirc, there's a standard somewhere) and see if the stuff delaminates.
No delamination= good to go. Quick, simple, cheap test.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296952#296952
Message 2
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| Subject: | Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming |
We have posted about ethanol in motor fuel gasoline previously and wondered
when/if we were going to see it pretty much everywhere. Texas had been resisting
this, but about a month ago some vendors here in TX began posting ethanol
labels on their pumps. Now I am seeing others-- Murphy first, then Shell. I
will check others. This has been done without any local announcements. I suspect
it is a federal mandate in order for the states to get matching federal
highway $$$$.
The labels thus far in TX state that "up to 10 percent" of the fuel may be
ethanol.
We know that ethanol in the gas bonds with water and makes it difficult, if
not impossible, to separate out the water in the tanks and at the gascolator.
We know that ethanol is more volatile than gasoline, and thus we have more evaporative
cooling at the carbuerator. The combo of more cooling and more water
can cause more carb icing. So, as we have throttled back we need more carb
heat when using mogas.
At the other end of performance, 100% power for takeoff, ethanol is troublesome,
as well. Since ethanol has about 30% less energy than gasoline, we will
have performance degradation on takeoff. And with more volatility from the ethanol,
on a hot day at full power, we have greater possibility of vapor lock
when we need all the power.
Am I missing something? Some additive? Does anyone know if the 92 or higher
octane mogas is being left alone, or any way out of this problem, other than
100LL avgas (and another set of problems there for many engines)?
Tim in central TX
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming |
Heres what I know;I always thought that the higher octane was kept to no et
hanol especially Shell-till I talked to a tanker driver and he told me th
at when they have extra regular left over then they put it into the high te
st tanks.He works all night long delivering gas.He told me nobody sees what
they do and the station owners don't complain so hey why not eh.When you t
hink you are getting pure high octane check it next time,you may see some e
thonol in there.When you think you are paying for high octain you may be pa
ying for regular.Unless you have these guys staked out all the time you wil
l never catch them.It's not a perfect world out there,I wish it was.I guess
the only way to be sure is to stick to the 100LL and even then I would que
stion it.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Tim Willis
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>=0ATo: matronics piet site <pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com>=0ASent: Thu, May 6, 2010 2:07:29 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List:
Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>=0A=0A=0A- - We have posted abo
ut ethanol in motor fuel gasoline previously and wondered when/if we were g
oing to see it pretty much everywhere.- Texas had been resisting this, bu
t about a month ago some vendors here in TX began posting ethanol labels on
their pumps.- Now I am seeing others-- Murphy first, then Shell.- I wi
ll check others.- This has been done without any local announcements.-
I suspect it is a federal mandate in order for the states to get matching f
ederal highway $$$$. =0A- - The labels thus far in TX state that "up to
10 percent" of the fuel may be ethanol.=0A- - We know that ethanol in
the gas bonds with water and makes it difficult, if not impossible, to sepa
rate out the water in the tanks and at the gascolator.- We know that etha
nol is more volatile than gasoline, and thus we have more evaporative cooli
ng at the carbuerator.- The combo of more cooling and more water can caus
e more carb icing.- So, as we have throttled back we need more carb heat
when using mogas.- =0A- - At the other end of performance, 100% power
for takeoff, ethanol is troublesome, as well.- Since ethanol has about 3
0% less energy than gasoline, we will have performance degradation on takeo
ff.- And with more volatility from the ethanol, on a hot day at full powe
r, we have greater possibility of vapor lock when we need all the power.=0A
- - Am I missing something?- Some additive?- Does anyone know if th
e 92 or higher octane mogas is being left alone, or any way out of this pro
blem, other than 100LL avgas (and another set of problems there for many en
==
Message 4
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| Subject: | Question regarding control surface travel |
I have seen where aileron travel in degrees was discussed previously and
remember parts of the discussion. I do not however remember anyone discussing
the amount of travel for each surface individually and in the same
document. At the risk of having the information repeated in part, could someone
with either empirical or theoretical based knowledge provide the following
information for control surfaces:
Ailerons travel in inches and degrees up and down
Rudder deflection left and right of center
Elevator up and down from center
Center being considered at the zero surface position where no deflection
exists
I want to be assured that when I begin my surface set up that I have
adequate or greater than adequate surface deflection such that I never run out
of aileron, rudder and elevator authority.
Thanks
John
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming |
Without regard to what shady drivers/stations may put in their high test tanks,
as Harvey mentions below, I know that the Kwiktrip stations in Wisconsin specifically
advertise their Premium fuel as being ethanol free and the recommended
"Recreation Fuel" for ATVs, Snowmobiles, and small engines. They must not see
the mogas aviation community as a big enough market to advertise to. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296973#296973
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming |
There's a series of gas stations in Maine that actually have the chutzpah to put
"ENRICHED with up to 10% methanol." Some of the customers actually buy into
it. Ignorance is bliss.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296984#296984
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming |
Enriched,enhanced,better than before,best there ever was,bestous in the lan
d.It all adds up to where can I find a safe place to land when everything g
oes quiet.The Piet in case anyone hasn't noticed is not the best glider in
the land.=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: dgaldrich <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronic
s.com=0ASent: Thu, May 6, 2010 5:51:06 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Et
aldrich" <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>=0A=0AThere's a series of gas stations i
n Maine that actually have the chutzpah to put "ENRICHED with up to 10% met
hanol."- Some of the customers actually buy into it.- Ignorance is blis
s.=0A=0ADave=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.
============
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming |
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b3J1bXMuPT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQo
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Mahogeny or Birch |
I've used some of both so far.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296996#296996
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Mahogeny or Birch |
I know the feeling, Mark. I'm baptized Mormon and Catholic....
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 7:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mahogeny or Birch
I've used some of both so far.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296996#296996
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming |
bestous???=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: John Recine <amsafetyc@aol.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol builders Board <pi
etenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Thu, May 6, 2010 7:37:12 PM=0ASubject:
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming=0A=0AAlways wanted t
o know how to spell that, just never had the chutzpah to ask=0A=0AJohn=0A
=0ADo not archive =0ASent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry=0A___________
_____________________=0A=0AFrom: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com> =0ADate: T
hu, 6 May 2010 16:11:19 -0700 (PDT)=0ATo: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0A
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ethanol in Mogas-- more coming=0A=0AEnrich
ed,enhanced,better than before,best there ever was,bestous in the land.It a
ll adds up to where can I find a safe place to land when everything goes qu
iet.The Piet in case anyone hasn't noticed is not the best glider in the la
nd.=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:
dgaldrich <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A
Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 5:51:06 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ethanol in
<dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>=0A=0AThere's a series of gas stations in Maine
that actually have the chutzpah to put "ENRICHED with up to 10% methanol."
=C2- Some of the customers actually buy into it.=C2- Ignorance is bliss
.=0A=0ADave=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.m
atronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=296984#29698==C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pie=C2- --> =0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_
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