Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:12 AM - slips (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video) (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
3. 11:18 AM - Re: California Pietenpol Gathering (Ray Krause)
4. 11:38 AM - help out the newsletter by writing (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 11:43 AM - Re: slips (Dan Yocum)
6. 12:27 PM - fuel tank (skellytown flyer)
7. 12:52 PM - Re: California Pietenpol Gathering (Gary Boothe)
8. 12:58 PM - Re: fuel tank (Dan Yocum)
9. 02:16 PM - Re: slips (Jerry Dotson)
10. 03:17 PM - Re: fuel tank (skellytown flyer)
11. 04:48 PM - Re: fuel tank (Dale Johnson)
12. 05:58 PM - Re: slips (Jeff Boatright)
13. 06:20 PM - Re: slips (Don Emch)
14. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: fuel tank (Dan Yocum)
15. 06:43 PM - Re: fuel tank (skellytown flyer)
16. 07:07 PM - Re: California Pietenpol Gathering (Ray Krause)
17. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: fuel tank (Kip and Beth Gardner)
18. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: slips (Dan Yocum)
Message 1
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Jeff wrote:
>Further, the Piet really likes to slip. I'd like others'
>opinions on this, but since I've become comfortable with
>slips in the Piet, I've been thinking that if it all went
>pear-shaped one day, and I had to get the plane down on a
>spot with almost no open ground, I could slip right into it,
>right to the ground, and walk away, even if it totalled the
>plane. There is that much control and the speed can be that
>low.
I would have to agree. I learned to fly in a 40HP J-3 Cub
and practically every landing was made with a slip on final
to adjust the approach. I was taught not to make long, flat
draggy approaches and to always make my approaches with
power off, so you always carried a little extra altitude that
you trimmed off by slipping on final. The use of power to
adjust the approach was usually met with the feel of the
instructor's unseen hand pulling the throttle back to the stop.
It's all about energy management.
I like to operate off of the grassy part of the field at my
home base at San Geronimo, where the final approach involves
dropping the airplane in over some trees that are maybe 20-25
feet tall. If I slip it in pretty steep to drop in over the
trees, I can do my landing and rollout on grass and never
even get to the paved hard-surface runway. I have come in
ridiculously high on final, thrown the airplane into a hard
slip, and still made the grass. It's great fun and, like Jeff
says, you can put the airplane into very small spots...
especially in a pinch, where an intentional groundloop would
be an acceptable alternative to something worse. A standard
sized football field would be an incredible extravagance of
space to land in, and no sweat at all in a Piet.
PS, I think the national motto here in South Texas is, "never
put off tomorrow what you can put off today". I think I'll
go take a siesta...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video) |
WOW that really looks like a Biplane concept for the DC3. Knock the top wing off,
round the fuselage some and viola.
Cool
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson@erec.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video)
>
> My treasure trove of little know aeroplanes turned up this picture and a web
site that enlightened me. It is worth a look.
>
> http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/curtiss-t32-condor-ii
>
> Good video Gary.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> Ribs and tailfeathers done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298538#298538
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/curtiss_t_32_condor_ii_118.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: California Pietenpol Gathering |
Mike,
Unfortunately I will not be attending the flyin this Saturday, June 5.
Too many commitments. Maybe next time.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Groah
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: California Pietenpol Gathering
Hello everyone,
It's now just two and a half weeks away from the Pietenpol gathering
at Frazier Lake California (a nice grass strip). I just thought I'd
send out a reminder and get people thinking about it again. If you've
said you're coming then I already have that in my notes. If you're
coming and you haven't let Charlie or myself know, then please do. It's
not mandatory that you let us know you're coming, but it would be nice
for planning purposes. Charlie Miller (our host) and my phone numbers
are also on the info sheet; see attached pdf file. I'm looking forward
to seeing others who are crazy about Pietenpols. Bring your Pietenpol,
or construction photo album to share with everyone!
Mike Groah
Do Not Archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | help out the newsletter by writing |
Hey everybody,
If you can even partially write a decent sentence, please consider
contributing something to the newsletter. Anything from building tips, to
flight reports to fun stories and musings about aircamping is needed.
Ive ready wonderful things on this list over the years, some highly
motivational to a builder in the process yet never see them in the
newsletter, where they could go on an encourage and motivate others.
Contact Doc Mosher and send them in (and photos too)
Douwe
Message 5
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Oscar,
N8031 slips very well but I have noticed that the rudder, when fully
deflected, will stay in that position if I do not apply opposite
pedal. Does yours do the same? How about other people's Piets? I
think this is due to the lack of a gap seal on the vertical stabilzer.
Thanks,
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
On May 23, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> >
>
>
> Jeff wrote:
>
>> Further, the Piet really likes to slip. I'd like others'
>> opinions on this, but since I've become comfortable with
>> slips in the Piet, I've been thinking that if it all went
>> pear-shaped one day, and I had to get the plane down on a
>> spot with almost no open ground, I could slip right into it,
>> right to the ground, and walk away, even if it totalled the
>> plane. There is that much control and the speed can be that
>> low.
>
> I would have to agree. I learned to fly in a 40HP J-3 Cub
> and practically every landing was made with a slip on final
> to adjust the approach. I was taught not to make long, flat
> draggy approaches and to always make my approaches with
> power off, so you always carried a little extra altitude that
> you trimmed off by slipping on final. The use of power to
> adjust the approach was usually met with the feel of the
> instructor's unseen hand pulling the throttle back to the stop.
> It's all about energy management.
>
> I like to operate off of the grassy part of the field at my
> home base at San Geronimo, where the final approach involves
> dropping the airplane in over some trees that are maybe 20-25
> feet tall. If I slip it in pretty steep to drop in over the
> trees, I can do my landing and rollout on grass and never
> even get to the paved hard-surface runway. I have come in
> ridiculously high on final, thrown the airplane into a hard
> slip, and still made the grass. It's great fun and, like Jeff
> says, you can put the airplane into very small spots...
> especially in a pinch, where an intentional groundloop would
> be an acceptable alternative to something worse. A standard
> sized football field would be an incredible extravagance of
> space to land in, and no sweat at all in a Piet.
>
> PS, I think the national motto here in South Texas is, "never
> put off tomorrow what you can put off today". I think I'll
> go take a siesta...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 6
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Have any of you made your own tank from galvanized metal ? and if so how successful
were you in soldering up the joints? I am getting mine together right now
for my center section and hope to be able to start soldering in a week or two
if work and life doesn't slow me down too much.anyway just wanted to pick the
brain of experienced solder hands either on or off-list.I have some acid core
solder and access to 3 fairly heavy soldering irons I can borrow if I decide
to try it myself. been a lot of years since high school and my only time to do
it with heated irons in a furnace.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298616#298616
Message 7
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| Subject: | California Pietenpol Gathering |
Ray,
Sorry to miss you and your beautiful, shiny Waiex!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: California Pietenpol Gathering
Mike,
Unfortunately I will not be attending the flyin this Saturday, June 5. Too
many commitments. Maybe next time.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Groah <mailto:dskogrover@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: California Pietenpol Gathering
Hello everyone,
It's now just two and a half weeks away from the Pietenpol gathering at
Frazier Lake California (a nice grass strip). I just thought I'd send out
a reminder and get people thinking about it again. If you've said you're
coming then I already have that in my notes. If you're coming and you
haven't let Charlie or myself know, then please do. It's not mandatory that
you let us know you're coming, but it would be nice for planning purposes.
Charlie Miller (our host) and my phone numbers are also on the info sheet;
see attached pdf file. I'm looking forward to seeing others who are crazy
about Pietenpols. Bring your Pietenpol, or construction photo album to
share with everyone!
Mike Groah
Do Not Archive
Message 8
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Raymond,
Having only sweated copper fittings, why not use a propane torch,
instead? I don't think you're going to get enough heat out of an iron.
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
On May 23, 2010, at 3:27 PM, skellytown flyer <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> >
>
> Have any of you made your own tank from galvanized metal ? and if so
> how successful were you in soldering up the joints? I am getting
> mine together right now for my center section and hope to be able to
> start soldering in a week or two if work and life doesn't slow me
> down too much.anyway just wanted to pick the brain of experienced
> solder hands either on or off-list.I have some acid core solder and
> access to 3 fairly heavy soldering irons I can borrow if I decide to
> try it myself. been a lot of years since high school and my only
> time to do it with heated irons in a furnace.Raymond
>
>
Message 9
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Dan I think that I would look for a cable binding or hinge bind. I have not gotten
my rudder cables installed yet but have stretched building strings and I can
see that routing will be a challenge to get good geometry and no rubbing the
framework. Why not sit the fuselage on blocks so the tailwheel hangs free and
see what it does. If the hinges are not pretty close to where a single straight
rod could pass through they will bind some where along the arc (personal experience
on a stereo cabinet from years ago.....I said aw thats close enuff.
NOT).
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298627#298627
Message 10
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Well that may be true but I am worried about getting the thin metal hot and burning
the galvanize away. 'm afraid if that happened I'd never get a good joint
seal.I suppose Proseal is always an option but I'd rather not use it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298631#298631
Message 11
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I tryed to build a tank from galvanized metal. Used copper pop rivits with
rosen core solder.
It started to leak afer about 40 hrs.I don't know how you plan to get the
acid from the inside.
In time the acid will eat through.
Dale
> [Original Message]
> From: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 5/23/2010 2:29:41 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank
>
<skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
>
> Have any of you made your own tank from galvanized metal ? and if so how
successful were you in soldering up the joints? I am getting mine together
right now for my center section and hope to be able to start soldering in a
week or two if work and life doesn't slow me down too much.anyway just
wanted to pick the brain of experienced solder hands either on or
off-list.I have some acid core solder and access to 3 fairly heavy
soldering irons I can borrow if I decide to try it myself. been a lot of
years since high school and my only time to do it with heated irons in a
furnace.Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298616#298616
>
>
Message 12
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Dan,
My rudder does not stay in any position without positive input from
my feet. Hence the lousy landings...
Jeff
>
>Oscar,
>
>N8031 slips very well but I have noticed that the rudder, when fully
>deflected, will stay in that position if I do not apply opposite
>pedal. Does yours do the same? How about other people's Piets? I
>think this is due to the lack of a gap seal on the vertical
>stabilzer.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 13
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Dan,
I've noticed something very similar with mine. It seems that once in a hard slip
I need to apply almost the same amount of pressure in opposite rudder to straighten
out. Other old taildraggers I've flown seem to want to get out of the
slip more on their own, the Piet just takes a little effort. No big deal.
I also seem to get a little stick shake. It's nowhere near a stall though. I
think its just a little turbulence coming off of the big covered wire wheels
that are now going sideways through the air.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298652#298652
Message 14
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I don't *think* it will burn off the zinc - it's only propane, after
all.
The melting point of zinc is 400C, the boiling point is 900C. The
maximum temp of a propane flame is 1995C. You might get that at the
tip of the blue cone (Mike C. probably can corfurm or deny that) but
the temp of the tip of the yellow probably wouldn't melt the zinc and
would melt the solder which melts at 180-190C.
You might as well build up a small box and solder and see if it holds
fuel.
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
On May 23, 2010, at 6:16 PM, skellytown flyer <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> >
>
> Well that may be true but I am worried about getting the thin metal
> hot and burning the galvanize away. 'm afraid if that happened I'd
> never get a good joint seal.I suppose Proseal is always an option
> but I'd rather not use it.
>
>
Message 15
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I was thinking about a good sloshing with a water and baking soda solution and
then a lot of hot water at the car wash. what do you think?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298657#298657
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: California Pietenpol Gathering |
Thanks, Gary, for the complement! I will get to one of the meetings
sometime....after I re-polish the Waiex!
I sure enjoy all your posts; your workmanship really puts me to shame!
But it also makes me try harder!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: California Pietenpol Gathering
Ray,
Sorry to miss you and your beautiful, shiny Waiex!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 11:18 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: California Pietenpol Gathering
Mike,
Unfortunately I will not be attending the flyin this Saturday, June 5.
Too many commitments. Maybe next time.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Groah
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 2:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: California Pietenpol Gathering
Hello everyone,
It's now just two and a half weeks away from the Pietenpol gathering
at Frazier Lake California (a nice grass strip). I just thought I'd
send out a reminder and get people thinking about it again. If you've
said you're coming then I already have that in my notes. If you're
coming and you haven't let Charlie or myself know, then please do. It's
not mandatory that you let us know you're coming, but it would be nice
for planning purposes. Charlie Miller (our host) and my phone numbers
are also on the info sheet; see attached pdf file. I'm looking forward
to seeing others who are crazy about Pietenpols. Bring your Pietenpol,
or construction photo album to share with everyone!
Mike Groah
Do Not Archive
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 17
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the zinc WERE burned off, I'd think
solder would flow to those areas and you'd be OK. If the galvanizing
merely melted, it would mix with the solder - still shouldn't be a
problem. Most of my soldering experience is on copper & brass pipe,
but from what I've observed, with adequate flux, solder will flow to
anyplace there's a properly cleaned surface, but no further.
I'd avoid acid core, rosin core or any kind of core & go strictly
with brushed on flux.
Kip Gardner
On May 23, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> I don't *think* it will burn off the zinc - it's only propane,
> after all.
>
> The melting point of zinc is 400C, the boiling point is 900C. The
> maximum temp of a propane flame is 1995C. You might get that at
> the tip of the blue cone (Mike C. probably can corfurm or deny
> that) but the temp of the tip of the yellow probably wouldn't melt
> the zinc and would melt the solder which melts at 180-190C.
>
> You might as well build up a small box and solder and see if it
> holds fuel.
>
> Dan
>
> --
> yocum@gmail.com
>
> On May 23, 2010, at 6:16 PM, skellytown flyer
> <skellflyer1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> <skellflyer1@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Well that may be true but I am worried about getting the thin
>> metal hot and burning the galvanize away. 'm afraid if that
>> happened I'd never get a good joint seal.I suppose Proseal is
>> always an option but I'd rather not use it.
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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Yep. No big deal. Glad to hear mine's not the only one.
The previous owner, a young aerospace engineer, put little yarn pieces
all over the tail and videoed it during a full slip. The rudder
actually "stalls" and needs that extra foot pressure to get out of the
"stall." There was some disagreement between his other aeropsace
engineer friends as to what caused it to behave that way, but my gut
feeling is that there's so much air getting forced through the gap
that it can't return to the normal position without some foot pressure.
I just chalk it up to being one of those quirks of an airplane
designed in 1929 by a man who just wanted to fly.
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
On May 23, 2010, at 9:18 PM, Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> I've noticed something very similar with mine. It seems that once
> in a hard slip I need to apply almost the same amount of pressure in
> opposite rudder to straighten out. Other old taildraggers I've
> flown seem to want to get out of the slip more on their own, the
> Piet just takes a little effort. No big deal. I also seem to get a
> little stick shake. It's nowhere near a stall though. I think its
> just a little turbulence coming off of the big covered wire wheels
> that are now going sideways through the air.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298652#298652
>
>
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