Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:01 AM - Re: Adverse Yaw (Don Emch)
2. 04:25 AM - Target Brodhead, pregress report (helspersew@aol.com)
3. 04:55 AM - Re: Target Brodhead, pregress report (Ryan Mueller)
4. 05:05 AM - Larry Williams' fuel tank (Lawrence Williams)
5. 06:02 AM - latex paint (Oscar Zuniga)
6. 06:32 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft (tbyh@aol.com)
7. 06:49 AM - Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress (Jim Markle)
8. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft (Tim Willis)
9. 09:48 AM - Larry Williams' fuel tank (santiago morete)
10. 10:39 AM - Target Brodhead, pregress report (santiago morete)
11. 10:50 AM - Re: latex paint (Ben Charvet)
12. 10:55 AM - Re: Adverse Yaw (Dan Yocum)
13. 12:58 PM - Re: latex paint (Tim Willis)
14. 03:40 PM - Re: Larry Williams' fuel tank (coxwelljon)
15. 03:47 PM - Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial! (Dan Yocum)
16. 04:07 PM - Re: Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial! (Ryan Mueller)
17. 05:39 PM - Re: Ohio Pietenpol Gathering (shad bell)
18. 08:52 PM - Re: A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder (bluiewest1)
Message 1
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It's kind of funny, the Piet has lots of adverse yaw, but I don't even notice it.
The feet and hands just kind of work together I guess.
Don Emch
NX899DE
P.S. Looking forward to the "Ohio Pietenpol Gathering"!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299030#299030
Message 2
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| Subject: | Target Brodhead, pregress report |
Last night I assembled all the painted 3-facet windshield parts, and mount
ed to fuse. I only have one windshield (for pilot). I believe Bernard did
it this way. Am I correct?
I would check in the BHP "lost" papers to confirm, but I have already open
ed that sealed jar the allotted one time this year. I wonder how beat up
my front seat passenger will get from the wind? How much will the radiato
r block the slipstream? Opinions wanted please.
Tonight I begin mounting the tailfeathers. FUN!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Target Brodhead, pregress report |
Says Chet Peek on page 31:
"No windshield can be seen on any of the early model photos, and none is
shown on the original plans. The occupants are usually shown with helmet
and goggles; perhaps this was enough of a shield at the 65 MPH airspeed.
Most homebuilders adapted their individual windshield design ideas into
their planes."
Uh oh....better go take that new windscreen off and put it on the shelf!
:)
I'm not not sure how early Chet means when he says "early model", as
there are pictures here and there of Pietenpol constructed airplanes
with a rear windshield, 77W for example...
Ryan
Sent from my iPad
On May 27, 2010, at 6:20 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote:
> Last night I assembled all the painted 3-facet windshield parts, and
mounted to fuse. I only have one windshield (for pilot). I believe
Bernard did it this way. Am I correct?
> I would check in the BHP "lost" papers to confirm, but I have already
opened that sealed jar the allotted one time this year. I wonder how
beat up my front seat passenger will get from the wind? How much will
the radiator block the slipstream? Opinions wanted please.
>
> Tonight I begin mounting the tailfeathers. FUN!!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Larry Williams' fuel tank |
I'd like to thank Santiago for posting the plans that I drew up for the steel tank
fabrication. I'm currently not at home and don't know exactly when I'll be
back plus I'm still not too sure which box in my hangar that stuff is in. It's
a load off my mind now that I don't have to remember who wanted plans and dig
around to find them when I get back home.
Thanks a million Santiago, I'll buy you a pork chop dinner the next time you come
to Brodhead!!
Larry W.
Message 5
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Jeff pondered:
>I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope.
>Its much lighter than any other.
Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be
that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I
have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test
methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft |
Geoffrey De Havilland was working for Airco and designed the famous DH-4
biplane used extensively by the Brits and the US in WW1. When the war end
ed in 1918, De Havilland bought the assets of Airco and officially incorpo
rated De Havilland Aircraft Company in 1920. The US Army Air Service and
US Army Air Corps used DH-4s in WW1 and for many years after and into the
1930s. The DH-4 was one reason the US developed the Liberty series of eng
ines. DH-4s were built in the US during WW1 by a variety of manufacturers
including Fisher/GM.
After the war DH-4s were a real workhorse and were used to test a variety
of new technologies, including aircraft superchargers. During the summer
of 1920 four U.S. Army DH-4s flew from Mitchel Field (not named for the
Billy Mitchell, but for the young ex-mayor of New York City who was kille
d in flight training during WW1) on Long Island to Nome, Alaska, and back
-- some 10,000 miles (not non-stop, of course). It was the first time any
aircraft had flown from the lower states to the Alaska territory. The tri
p had its origins in the minds of none other than Billy Mitchell and Hap
Arnold who were already thinking of Alaska as a strategic base for Americ
an airpower. Several of the flyers on that Alaska venture went on to play
roles in planning the 1924 US Army around-the-world-flight with the Dougl
as World Cruisers (which also used Liberty V-12 engines)...in fact, Lt. Er
ic Nelson who had been part of the Alaska trip participated in the 1924 ro
und -the-world flight and later played an important role in the developmen
t of the Boeing B-29. The leader of the DH-4 flight to Alaska, Capt. St.
Clair Streett worked in the War Plans Office in Washington DC during WW2
and was later given command of the 13th Air Force (I believe)...
The only reason I know all of this is because my grandfather supplied gaso
line for the Alaska trip DH-4s when they stopped in Winona, Minnesota, tha
t summer and fall of 1920. Anyway, the first DH-4s had their faults (like
a pressurized fuel tank that sat between the pilot and the rear gunner an
d would go up like a Roman candle when hit by German fire -- or crush and
burn the pilot in a crash landing) but later versions played a very impor
tant role in the progress of aviation. De Havilland's DH-4 was very defini
tely a contemporary of the Curtiss JN-4 and Standard J-1...
Anyway, there's my 2 cents for the day...
Fred B.
La Crosse
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress |
Creve Coeur Airport....Do NOT get anywhere near St Louis without a visit to
Creve Coeur Airport!! :-)
Last time I was there I got to see the Jenny in one of their "museum" hangars....
>From HOT/MUGGY Houston....jm
-----Original Message-----
From: r.r.hall@cox.net
Sent: May 26, 2010 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Is it available tot he public? I will be in St Louis next month and
would love to come see it.
Rodney Hall
---- Dave Abramson <davea@symbolicdisplays.com> wrote:
>
Don't
Get Technical with me son! Ha Ha ! I have always called it a Jenny
when referring to the movie.... Seems the Jenny name is more known...
I
do stand corrected!!!!! Thanks!!!!
A
friend of mine knows who own's the aircraft. It is in a collection in
the St. Louis area.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne
Bressler
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:42 PM
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Dave,
Where did you get these photos? I've only seen two of this airplane
on Don Parson's facebook page. He hasn't even posted them to his
blog yet.
It's not a Jenny. The Jenny was a DeHavilland, this is a Standard.
From my limited understanding, it's noticeably larger than a Jenny.
I think I'm correct about that, but I've been wrong before. :)
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On May 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM, "Dave Abramson" <davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
wrote:
HELLO
EVERYONE!
HERE
IS THE JENNY THAT WAS USED IN THE "GREAT WALDO PEPPER"
IT'S
ALIVE AND WELL!
DAVE
Subject:
Standard J-1 progress
Yesterday and today pictures
will fly sometime next week if it stops raining
<IMG_4613emai.jpg>
<IMG_4614email.jpg>
<IMG_4616emai.jpg>
<IMG_4622emai.jpg>
<IMG_4624emai.jpg>
<IMG_4625email.jpg>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<!--= --> http-->
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft |
Thanks for the history lesson, Fred.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: tbyh@aol.com
Sent: May 27, 2010 8:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft
Geoffrey De Havilland was working for Airco and designed the famous DH-4 biplane
used extensively by the Brits and the US in WW1. When the war ended in 1918,
De Havilland bought the assets of Airco and officially incorporated De Havilland
Aircraft Company in 1920. The US Army Air Service and US Army Air Corps used
DH-4s in WW1 and for many years after and into the 1930s. The DH-4 was one
reason the US developed the Liberty series of engines. DH-4s were built in the
US during WW1 by a variety of manufacturers including Fisher/GM.
After the war DH-4s were a real workhorse and were used to test a variety of new
technologies, including aircraft superchargers. During the summer of 1920 four
U.S. Army DH-4s flew from Mitchel Field (not named for the Billy Mitchell,
but for the young ex-mayor of New York City who was killed in flight training
during WW1) on Long Island to Nome, Alaska, and back -- some 10,000 miles (not
non-stop, of course). It was the first time any aircraft had flown from the lower
states to the Alaska territory. The trip had its origins in the minds of
none other than Billy Mitchell and Hap Arnold who were already thinking of Alaska
as a strategic base for American airpower. Several of the flyers on that Alaska
venture went on to play roles in planning the 1924 US Army around-the-world-flight
with the Douglas World Cruisers (which also used Liberty V-12 engines)...in
fact, Lt. Eric Nelson who had been part of the Alaska trip participated
in the 1924 round -the-world flight and later played an important role in the
development of the Boeing B-29. The leader of the DH-4 flight to Alaska, Capt.
St. Clair Streett worked in the War Plans Office in Washington DC during WW2
and was later given command of the 13th Air Force (I believe)...
The only reason I know all of this is because my grandfather supplied gasoline
for the Alaska trip DH-4s when they stopped in Winona, Minnesota, that summer
and fall of 1920. Anyway, the first DH-4s had their faults (like a pressurized
fuel tank that sat between the pilot and the rear gunner and would go up like
a Roman candle when hit by German fire -- or crush and burn the pilot in a crash
landing) but later versions played a very important role in the progress of
aviation. De Havilland's DH-4 was very definitely a contemporary of the Curtiss
JN-4 and Standard J-1...
Anyway, there's my 2 cents for the day...
Fred B.
La Crosse
Message 9
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| Subject: | Larry Williams' fuel tank |
Hi Dan
Well, Larry sent me-those drawings four years ago, for free, (don't tell
him I have an aluminum-tank)-and he agreed to share them with the list.
-
How about adding the plans to westcoastpiet.com? Chris?
-
Larry, it's a pleasure to be useful! Living so far away it's difficult to h
elp, for instance, it would be great to be able to help Douwe with his plan
e rebuilding or things like that, but it's kind of difficult, right?
So, Dan's airplane is-finished, I have a free dinner....I have enough rea
sons to go to Brodhead,-but-not enough money, not this year.--
Saludos
-
Santiago
-
-
PS:Larry, congratulations on your grandson!
-
do not archive
-=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Target Brodhead, pregress report |
Hi Dan, congratulations!
The only "problem" I can see about not using a front windshield is the heat
coming from the radiator right on the passenger's face.-That can be unco
mfortable in a summer day. But you're not your passenger, so, don't put a f
ront windshield!
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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I used 1.8 oz dacron, and finished with Latex. The whole thing is
Douglas Fir, and I still came in under 700 pounds. Used Stewart System
glue, so I had a no fume paint job.
Ben
On 5/27/2010 9:02 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga<taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Jeff pondered:
>
>
>> I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope.
>> Its much lighter than any other.
>>
>
> Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be
> that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I
> have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test
> methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this:
>
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
Message 12
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The adverse yaw present in the piet is NOTHING compared to any
sailpane I've flown.
If you want some good practice dealing with adverse yaw (and
coordinated flight, close formation flying, energy management,
commitment to the landing, etc.) I highly recommend getting some time
in a glider.
The Schweizer 2-33 is a very forgiving glider and has huge amounts of
adverse yaw. It's just something you have work with and get used to.
No big deal.
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
>
Message 13
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Oscar,
I looked at your interesting post linked to your "flying squirrel" site. Your
methodology reflects the rigors of science in your
"day job." Thanks for starting this test.
However, was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex finish version?
Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent (upper right quadrant
in your test apparatus), should we conclude that if one of the base latex coats
had been black, that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
In other words, is there a real basis for the belief that a black basecoat blocks
UV? If so, to get this protection, do we need an extra finish coat if using
light colors, to be able to cover completely the dark undercoats? Thus added
protection at added weight.
BTW, in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, can we not
see translucent light through light colors in the wings, and thus through two
painted fabric layers, both above and below the ribs? (I recall seeing a couple
of pix like that, with planes flying overhead with the sun almost directly
behind. Finish unknown.)
Thanks for this test.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: May 27, 2010 8:02 AM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>
>
>
>Jeff pondered:
>
>>I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope.
>>Its much lighter than any other.
>
>Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be
>that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I
>have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test
>methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this:
>
>http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Larry Williams' fuel tank |
Thanks to Santiago & Larry for sharing that.
Congratulations on your grandson Larry.
Those instructions are great, clear and easy to follow. There should really be
no problem building the tank.
Jon Coxwell
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299089#299089
Message 15
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| Subject: | Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial! |
230lbs. That should fit on a Piet.
http://motorstarna.com/r-263-engines/general-information
--
yocum@gmail.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial! |
If you back up to the base page they link to a video...middling cell phone
quality, but it does show it running.
Check out the Development page....apparently the M14 cylinder heads they
utilize have a combustion chamber that's just not right for what they want
to achieve. They have switched to O-200 cylinders (!), and as such have
relocate the cam disk to the rear of the engine (pushrods in the rear). So
much for the classic radial look. :P
Interesting attempt though...
Ryan
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 230lbs. That should fit on a Piet.
>
> http://motorstarna.com/r-263-engines/general-information
>
>
> --
> yocum@gmail.com
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Ohio Pietenpol Gathering |
Correction for my pattern instructions, it should have read, Right traffic for
r/w 28, left traffic for 10.
Shad
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder |
Mike,
Any updates on this project? I would certainly like to see how the finished seats
look!
Jake Schultz chose to build his fuselage using 4130 tubing. I have read, although
only a few times, about Aircampers being tail heavy. Would a tube fuselage
alleviate this or is it more a matter of weight distribution?
Regards,
Marion Seckinger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299107#299107
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