---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/27/10: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:01 AM - Re: Adverse Yaw (Don Emch) 2. 04:25 AM - Target Brodhead, pregress report (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 04:55 AM - Re: Target Brodhead, pregress report (Ryan Mueller) 4. 05:05 AM - Larry Williams' fuel tank (Lawrence Williams) 5. 06:02 AM - latex paint (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 06:32 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft (tbyh@aol.com) 7. 06:49 AM - Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress (Jim Markle) 8. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft (Tim Willis) 9. 09:48 AM - Larry Williams' fuel tank (santiago morete) 10. 10:39 AM - Target Brodhead, pregress report (santiago morete) 11. 10:50 AM - Re: latex paint (Ben Charvet) 12. 10:55 AM - Re: Adverse Yaw (Dan Yocum) 13. 12:58 PM - Re: latex paint (Tim Willis) 14. 03:40 PM - Re: Larry Williams' fuel tank (coxwelljon) 15. 03:47 PM - Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial! (Dan Yocum) 16. 04:07 PM - Re: Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial! (Ryan Mueller) 17. 05:39 PM - Re: Ohio Pietenpol Gathering (shad bell) 18. 08:52 PM - Re: A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder (bluiewest1) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Adverse Yaw From: "Don Emch" It's kind of funny, the Piet has lots of adverse yaw, but I don't even notice it. The feet and hands just kind of work together I guess. Don Emch NX899DE P.S. Looking forward to the "Ohio Pietenpol Gathering"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299030#299030 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Target Brodhead, pregress report From: helspersew@aol.com Last night I assembled all the painted 3-facet windshield parts, and mount ed to fuse. I only have one windshield (for pilot). I believe Bernard did it this way. Am I correct? I would check in the BHP "lost" papers to confirm, but I have already open ed that sealed jar the allotted one time this year. I wonder how beat up my front seat passenger will get from the wind? How much will the radiato r block the slipstream? Opinions wanted please. Tonight I begin mounting the tailfeathers. FUN!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:29 AM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Target Brodhead, pregress report Says Chet Peek on page 31: "No windshield can be seen on any of the early model photos, and none is shown on the original plans. The occupants are usually shown with helmet and goggles; perhaps this was enough of a shield at the 65 MPH airspeed. Most homebuilders adapted their individual windshield design ideas into their planes." Uh oh....better go take that new windscreen off and put it on the shelf! :) I'm not not sure how early Chet means when he says "early model", as there are pictures here and there of Pietenpol constructed airplanes with a rear windshield, 77W for example... Ryan Sent from my iPad On May 27, 2010, at 6:20 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Last night I assembled all the painted 3-facet windshield parts, and mounted to fuse. I only have one windshield (for pilot). I believe Bernard did it this way. Am I correct? > I would check in the BHP "lost" papers to confirm, but I have already opened that sealed jar the allotted one time this year. I wonder how beat up my front seat passenger will get from the wind? How much will the radiator block the slipstream? Opinions wanted please. > > Tonight I begin mounting the tailfeathers. FUN!! > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:57 AM PST US From: Lawrence Williams Subject: Pietenpol-List: Larry Williams' fuel tank I'd like to thank Santiago for posting the plans that I drew up for the steel tank fabrication. I'm currently not at home and don't know exactly when I'll be back plus I'm still not too sure which box in my hangar that stuff is in. It's a load off my mind now that I don't have to remember who wanted plans and dig around to find them when I get back home. Thanks a million Santiago, I'll buy you a pork chop dinner the next time you come to Brodhead!! Larry W. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:40 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint Jeff pondered: >I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope. >Its much lighter than any other. Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft From: tbyh@aol.com Geoffrey De Havilland was working for Airco and designed the famous DH-4 biplane used extensively by the Brits and the US in WW1. When the war end ed in 1918, De Havilland bought the assets of Airco and officially incorpo rated De Havilland Aircraft Company in 1920. The US Army Air Service and US Army Air Corps used DH-4s in WW1 and for many years after and into the 1930s. The DH-4 was one reason the US developed the Liberty series of eng ines. DH-4s were built in the US during WW1 by a variety of manufacturers including Fisher/GM. After the war DH-4s were a real workhorse and were used to test a variety of new technologies, including aircraft superchargers. During the summer of 1920 four U.S. Army DH-4s flew from Mitchel Field (not named for the Billy Mitchell, but for the young ex-mayor of New York City who was kille d in flight training during WW1) on Long Island to Nome, Alaska, and back -- some 10,000 miles (not non-stop, of course). It was the first time any aircraft had flown from the lower states to the Alaska territory. The tri p had its origins in the minds of none other than Billy Mitchell and Hap Arnold who were already thinking of Alaska as a strategic base for Americ an airpower. Several of the flyers on that Alaska venture went on to play roles in planning the 1924 US Army around-the-world-flight with the Dougl as World Cruisers (which also used Liberty V-12 engines)...in fact, Lt. Er ic Nelson who had been part of the Alaska trip participated in the 1924 ro und -the-world flight and later played an important role in the developmen t of the Boeing B-29. The leader of the DH-4 flight to Alaska, Capt. St. Clair Streett worked in the War Plans Office in Washington DC during WW2 and was later given command of the 13th Air Force (I believe)... The only reason I know all of this is because my grandfather supplied gaso line for the Alaska trip DH-4s when they stopped in Winona, Minnesota, tha t summer and fall of 1920. Anyway, the first DH-4s had their faults (like a pressurized fuel tank that sat between the pilot and the rear gunner an d would go up like a Roman candle when hit by German fire -- or crush and burn the pilot in a crash landing) but later versions played a very impor tant role in the progress of aviation. De Havilland's DH-4 was very defini tely a contemporary of the Curtiss JN-4 and Standard J-1... Anyway, there's my 2 cents for the day... Fred B. La Crosse ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:58 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress Creve Coeur Airport....Do NOT get anywhere near St Louis without a visit to Creve Coeur Airport!! :-) Last time I was there I got to see the Jenny in one of their "museum" hangars.... >From HOT/MUGGY Houston....jm -----Original Message----- From: r.r.hall@cox.net Sent: May 26, 2010 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress Is it available tot he public? I will be in St Louis next month and would love to come see it. Rodney Hall ---- Dave Abramson wrote: > Don't Get Technical with me son! Ha Ha ! I have always called it a Jenny when referring to the movie.... Seems the Jenny name is more known... I do stand corrected!!!!! Thanks!!!! A friend of mine knows who own's the aircraft. It is in a collection in the St. Louis area. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne Bressler Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:42 PM pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress Dave, Where did you get these photos? I've only seen two of this airplane on Don Parson's facebook page. He hasn't even posted them to his blog yet. It's not a Jenny. The Jenny was a DeHavilland, this is a Standard. From my limited understanding, it's noticeably larger than a Jenny. I think I'm correct about that, but I've been wrong before. :) Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On May 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM, "Dave Abramson" wrote: HELLO EVERYONE! HERE IS THE JENNY THAT WAS USED IN THE "GREAT WALDO PEPPER" IT'S ALIVE AND WELL! DAVE Subject: Standard J-1 progress Yesterday and today pictures will fly sometime next week if it stops raining href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http--> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:52 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft Thanks for the history lesson, Fred. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: tbyh@aol.com Sent: May 27, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft Geoffrey De Havilland was working for Airco and designed the famous DH-4 biplane used extensively by the Brits and the US in WW1. When the war ended in 1918, De Havilland bought the assets of Airco and officially incorporated De Havilland Aircraft Company in 1920. The US Army Air Service and US Army Air Corps used DH-4s in WW1 and for many years after and into the 1930s. The DH-4 was one reason the US developed the Liberty series of engines. DH-4s were built in the US during WW1 by a variety of manufacturers including Fisher/GM. After the war DH-4s were a real workhorse and were used to test a variety of new technologies, including aircraft superchargers. During the summer of 1920 four U.S. Army DH-4s flew from Mitchel Field (not named for the Billy Mitchell, but for the young ex-mayor of New York City who was killed in flight training during WW1) on Long Island to Nome, Alaska, and back -- some 10,000 miles (not non-stop, of course). It was the first time any aircraft had flown from the lower states to the Alaska territory. The trip had its origins in the minds of none other than Billy Mitchell and Hap Arnold who were already thinking of Alaska as a strategic base for American airpower. Several of the flyers on that Alaska venture went on to play roles in planning the 1924 US Army around-the-world-flight with the Douglas World Cruisers (which also used Liberty V-12 engines)...in fact, Lt. Eric Nelson who had been part of the Alaska trip participated in the 1924 round -the-world flight and later played an important role in the development of the Boeing B-29. The leader of the DH-4 flight to Alaska, Capt. St. Clair Streett worked in the War Plans Office in Washington DC during WW2 and was later given command of the 13th Air Force (I believe)... The only reason I know all of this is because my grandfather supplied gasoline for the Alaska trip DH-4s when they stopped in Winona, Minnesota, that summer and fall of 1920. Anyway, the first DH-4s had their faults (like a pressurized fuel tank that sat between the pilot and the rear gunner and would go up like a Roman candle when hit by German fire -- or crush and burn the pilot in a crash landing) but later versions played a very important role in the progress of aviation. De Havilland's DH-4 was very definitely a contemporary of the Curtiss JN-4 and Standard J-1... Anyway, there's my 2 cents for the day... Fred B. La Crosse ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:08 AM PST US From: santiago morete Subject: Pietenpol-List: Larry Williams' fuel tank Hi Dan Well, Larry sent me-those drawings four years ago, for free, (don't tell him I have an aluminum-tank)-and he agreed to share them with the list. - How about adding the plans to westcoastpiet.com? Chris? - Larry, it's a pleasure to be useful! Living so far away it's difficult to h elp, for instance, it would be great to be able to help Douwe with his plan e rebuilding or things like that, but it's kind of difficult, right? So, Dan's airplane is-finished, I have a free dinner....I have enough rea sons to go to Brodhead,-but-not enough money, not this year.-- Saludos - Santiago - - PS:Larry, congratulations on your grandson! - do not archive -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:01 AM PST US From: santiago morete Subject: Pietenpol-List: Target Brodhead, pregress report Hi Dan, congratulations! The only "problem" I can see about not using a front windshield is the heat coming from the radiator right on the passenger's face.-That can be unco mfortable in a summer day. But you're not your passenger, so, don't put a f ront windshield! Saludos - Santiago=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:22 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint I used 1.8 oz dacron, and finished with Latex. The whole thing is Douglas Fir, and I still came in under 700 pounds. Used Stewart System glue, so I had a no fume paint job. Ben On 5/27/2010 9:02 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga > > > Jeff pondered: > > >> I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope. >> Its much lighter than any other. >> > > Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be > that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I > have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test > methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this: > > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:58 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adverse Yaw The adverse yaw present in the piet is NOTHING compared to any sailpane I've flown. If you want some good practice dealing with adverse yaw (and coordinated flight, close formation flying, energy management, commitment to the landing, etc.) I highly recommend getting some time in a glider. The Schweizer 2-33 is a very forgiving glider and has huge amounts of adverse yaw. It's just something you have work with and get used to. No big deal. Dan -- yocum@gmail.com > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:35 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint Oscar, I looked at your interesting post linked to your "flying squirrel" site. Your methodology reflects the rigors of science in your "day job." Thanks for starting this test. However, was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex finish version? Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent (upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black, that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric? In other words, is there a real basis for the belief that a black basecoat blocks UV? If so, to get this protection, do we need an extra finish coat if using light colors, to be able to cover completely the dark undercoats? Thus added protection at added weight. BTW, in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, can we not see translucent light through light colors in the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both above and below the ribs? (I recall seeing a couple of pix like that, with planes flying overhead with the sun almost directly behind. Finish unknown.) Thanks for this test. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: May 27, 2010 8:02 AM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint > > > >Jeff pondered: > >>I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope. >>Its much lighter than any other. > >Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be >that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I >have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test >methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this: > >http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Larry Williams' fuel tank From: "coxwelljon" Thanks to Santiago & Larry for sharing that. Congratulations on your grandson Larry. Those instructions are great, clear and easy to follow. There should really be no problem building the tank. Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299089#299089 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:04 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial! 230lbs. That should fit on a Piet. http://motorstarna.com/r-263-engines/general-information -- yocum@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial! From: Ryan Mueller If you back up to the base page they link to a video...middling cell phone quality, but it does show it running. Check out the Development page....apparently the M14 cylinder heads they utilize have a combustion chamber that's just not right for what they want to achieve. They have switched to O-200 cylinders (!), and as such have relocate the cam disk to the rear of the engine (pushrods in the rear). So much for the classic radial look. :P Interesting attempt though... Ryan On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > 230lbs. That should fit on a Piet. > > http://motorstarna.com/r-263-engines/general-information > > > -- > yocum@gmail.com > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:08 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Pietenpol Gathering Correction for my pattern instructions, it should have read, Right traffic for r/w 28, left traffic for 10. Shad ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder From: "bluiewest1" Mike, Any updates on this project? I would certainly like to see how the finished seats look! Jake Schultz chose to build his fuselage using 4130 tubing. I have read, although only a few times, about Aircampers being tail heavy. Would a tube fuselage alleviate this or is it more a matter of weight distribution? Regards, Marion Seckinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299107#299107 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.