Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:11 AM - Re: latex paint (John Franklin)
2. 05:56 AM - latex paint (Oscar Zuniga)
3. 06:14 AM - The other Ohio Fly-in (Kip and Beth Gardner)
4. 06:53 AM - Re: latex paint ()
5. 06:53 AM - Re: New Piet in Indiana (Larry Morlock)
6. 07:24 AM - Re: New Piet in Indiana (TOM STINEMETZE)
7. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: New Piet in Indiana (Jack Phillips)
8. 07:38 AM - Re: latex paint (Rick Holland)
9. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: New Piet in Indiana (Jim Markle)
10. 07:41 AM - Smoke On! (Jack Phillips)
11. 07:48 AM - Re: latex paint (Tim Willis)
12. 07:52 AM - Re: Smoke On! (TOM STINEMETZE)
13. 07:53 AM - Re: latex paint (Tim Willis)
14. 08:01 AM - Re: latex paint (Dave Abramson)
15. 08:08 AM - Re: Smoke On! (Tim Willis)
16. 08:34 AM - Re: Smoke On! (Gary Boothe)
17. 08:49 AM - Re: Smoke On! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
18. 09:30 AM - Re: Smoke On! (chase143(at)aol.com)
19. 11:33 AM - First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP (ldmill)
20. 12:05 PM - Re: latex paint ()
21. 12:08 PM - Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP (Dan Yocum)
22. 12:22 PM - Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP (Ryan Mueller)
23. 12:35 PM - Re: latex paint (Dan Yocum)
24. 12:49 PM - Re: latex paint (Gary Boothe)
25. 02:08 PM - Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
26. 02:22 PM - Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP (Jeff Boatright)
27. 03:38 PM - Re: Smoke On! (shad bell)
28. 04:26 PM - Builder Needed (Ken too)
29. 05:41 PM - Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP (Jack Phillips)
30. 05:43 PM - Re: Smoke On! (Jack Phillips)
31. 05:52 PM - Re: Smoke On! (Lagowski Morrow)
32. 05:53 PM - Re: Smoke On! (helspersew@aol.com)
33. 06:01 PM - Re: Smoke On! (Jeff Boatright)
34. 06:05 PM - Re: Builder Needed (bamabuilder)
35. 07:57 PM - Re: latex paint (GliderMike)
Message 1
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Tim,
If you browse through all of Oscar's links, you will find one that addresses that
very subject, and the conclusion was that the white latex blocks UV better
because of the titanium dioxide plus the improved reflectivity of the color:
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/latexpaint_uvbarrier.htm
Regards,
John F.
GN-1
Richmond, TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>Sent: May 27, 2010 3:57 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>
>
>Oscar,
> I looked at your interesting post linked to your "flying squirrel" site. Your
methodology reflects the rigors of science in your
>"day job." Thanks for starting this test.
> However, was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex finish version?
Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent (upper right quadrant
in your test apparatus), should we conclude that if one of the base latex coats
had been black, that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
> In other words, is there a real basis for the belief that a black basecoat
blocks UV? If so, to get this protection, do we need an extra finish coat if using
light colors, to be able to cover completely the dark undercoats? Thus added
protection at added weight.
> BTW, in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, can we not
see translucent light through light colors in the wings, and thus through two
painted fabric layers, both above and below the ribs? (I recall seeing a couple
of pix like that, with planes flying overhead with the sun almost directly
behind. Finish unknown.)
> Thanks for this test.
>Tim in central TX
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>Sent: May 27, 2010 8:02 AM
>>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>>
>
>
________________________________________
Message 2
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Tim wrote:
>was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex
>finish version?
No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary
to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to
block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house
paint will do the job because they are all formulated to
cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on).
> Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent
>(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we
>conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black,
>that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame.
The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower
left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel.
>in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush,
>can we not see translucent light through light colors in
>the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both
>above and below the ribs?
I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system
is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide
UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause
the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not
necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think
you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it
to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | The other Ohio Fly-in |
Hey Everyone,
While Shad's "Fly-in" (Yes, i know it's not an official event) is
coming up soon, I'd like to remind everyone that our EAA Chapter is
hosting a fly in next weekend that should be of interest to a lot of
you.
Both of Frank Pavliga's Piets are generally on display, and a lot of
other vintage aircraft typically show up. Also, you'll get to look
at a lot of Corvairs in 'ground mode' i.e. still in cars, and Roy of
Roy's Garage will be there to talk about his fifth bearing work and
other aspects of Corvair conversion. He will also inspect & measure
any components you bring to determine if they are OK for conversion.
Here's the official announcement:
EAA 82 is having it's 4th Annual "WINGS AND WHEELS FLY-IN" on
Saturday and Sunday, June 5 & 6th at BARBER AIRPORT (2D1).
The field is located approximately three miles north of Alliance,
Ohio on State Route 225. There will be aircraft with automotive and
alternative engines - CORVAIRS AND VOLKSWAGENS on display.
Ther will be a pancake breakfast on Saturday and Sunday from 7 till
11 AM with lunch on Saturday from noon till 2 PM. This event is open
to the public.
There will be homebuilt aircraft ( KR-2S's, Pietenpols, an Afford-a-
Plane), PRA #19 (Rotorcraft Chapter) will have trikes and a
demonstrator, and Vintage and Antique aircraft (Waco 9, Fleet,
Taylorcrafts) on the field. There will be a fleet of some nicely
restored Corvair cars on display.
There will be several Corvair engines and a "Roy's Garage" Fifth
Bearing on display for those who are interested in using a Corvair in
their project. Roy Szarafinski of Roy's Garage will be present to
answer questions about his bearing and will gladly check your engine
cases for proper tolerances before you start an engine rebuild.
The fly-in hours will be Saturday... 7 AM - 4 PM and Sunday... 7 AM -
2 PM.
For more information, contact Ron Willett @ 330-314-0075, Pete Klapp
@ 330-388-2074, or Forrest Barber (FBO) at WWW.BARBERAIRCRAFT.COM.
We can provide lodging for those who would be flying in for our event.
Hope to see you all there!
Kip Gardner
Message 4
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I believe the findings were that all colors of latex had similar UV protection.
That being true your "base" should be a color that will enhance your color coat.
I would use a white base coat, maybe a high solid primer like Kilz that may
also add some anti mildew properties, for light colors and maybe black for only
darker colors where the white would make them harder to get the right shade.
Or if your building a Night Fighter :-)
---- John Franklin <jbfjr@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>Tim,
>
>If you browse through all of Oscar's links, you will find one that addresses that
very subject, and the conclusion was that the white latex blocks UV better
because of the titanium dioxide plus the improved reflectivity of the color:
>
>http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/latexpaint_uvbarrier.htm
>
>Regards,
>John F.
>GN-1
>Richmond, TX
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>>Sent: May 27, 2010 3:57 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>>
>>
>>Oscar,
>>I looked at your interesting post linked to your "flying squirrel" site. Your
methodology reflects the rigors of science in your
>>"day job." Thanks for starting this test.
>>However, was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex finish version?
Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent (upper right quadrant in
your test apparatus), should we conclude that if one of the base latex coats
had been black, that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
>>In other words, is there a real basis for the belief that a black basecoat blocks
UV? If so, to get this protection, do we need an extra finish coat if using
light colors, to be able to cover completely the dark undercoats? Thus added
protection at added weight.
>>BTW, in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, can we not see
translucent light through light colors in the wings, and thus through two painted
fabric layers, both above and below the ribs? (I recall seeing a couple
of pix like that, with planes flying overhead with the sun almost directly behind.
Finish unknown.)
>>Thanks for this test.
>>Tim in central TX
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>>Sent: May 27, 2010 8:02 AM
>>>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>>>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>________________________________________
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet in Indiana |
I'd like to introduce myself to everyone on the Pietenpol list. My name
is Larry Morlock and I'm the person Douwe Blumberg referred to as having
a new Pietenpol project in Columbus, Indiana. In fact, I have the
privilege of acquiring the Model A engine that was in Douwe's Piet.
My project is not exactly new. I acquired it as a partially completed
project in 1993, worked on it for a couple of years and then it
languished for about 15 years until I retired last year. I've put a lot
of time into it since then. The attached photo shows it as I was doing
a preliminary weight and balance. The wing is now covered with fabric
and I'm about to start the enviable job of rib stitching.
I've enjoyed reading the Pietenpol list entries for the last few months,
and Douwe convinced me to start contributing to the conversation. I
plan to be in Brodhead this year so hope to meet up with others on the
list.
Larry Morlock
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet in Indiana |
Larry:
Welcome to the list even though it appears you will be in the air long
before I will. I particularly like your photo as it shows just how much
your Piet wants to go flying. It appears that you had to chain it to the
floor of the hanger to keep it from drifting off. Maybe you don't even
need to cover the wings.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X (in the making)
do not archive
>>> "Larry Morlock" <l.morlock@att.net> 5/28/2010 8:46 AM >>>
I'd like to introduce myself to everyone on the Pietenpol list. My name
is Larry Morlock and I'm the person Douwe Blumberg referred to as having a
new Pietenpol project in Columbus, Indiana.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet in Indiana |
Looks great, Larry. It's good to have you on this site, and I look forward
to meeting you at Brodhead this summer.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Morlock
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Piet in Indiana
I'd like to introduce myself to everyone on the Pietenpol list. My name is
Larry Morlock and I'm the person Douwe Blumberg referred to as having a new
Pietenpol project in Columbus, Indiana. In fact, I have the privilege of
acquiring the Model A engine that was in Douwe's Piet.
My project is not exactly new. I acquired it as a partially completed
project in 1993, worked on it for a couple of years and then it languished
for about 15 years until I retired last year. I've put a lot of time into
it since then. The attached photo shows it as I was doing a preliminary
weight and balance. The wing is now covered with fabric and I'm about to
start the enviable job of rib stitching.
I've enjoyed reading the Pietenpol list entries for the last few months, and
Douwe convinced me to start contributing to the conversation. I plan to be
in Brodhead this year so hope to meet up with others on the list.
Larry Morlock
Message 8
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For those of you whose have not seen my Latex test panel project, it is
going on 5 years (in August) pointing true South at 6700 ft. in Colorado.
Still looks great. Punch tested it last year and one side the tester could
not punch the fabric and punched through on the other side only at the
maximum rating of the tester. This is with two cross-coats of
Sherwin-Williams Super Paint Gloss, on bare medium fabric on one side and on
top of a coat of Poly-Brush on the other.
This is exposed 7x7 and 365 days a year so if you have your plane out of the
hanger 100 hrs/year you will have to own your plane 438 years to get the
same exposure to the Sun (and leave it out in several hail/snow/rain
storms).
I definitely do not believe you need any black latex base coat, am painting
mine with two cross-coats of latex primer and two latex satin top
cross-coats.
rick
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Tim wrote:
>
> >was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex
> >finish version?
>
> No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary
> to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to
> block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house
> paint will do the job because they are all formulated to
> cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on).
>
> > Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent
> >(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we
> >conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black,
> >that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
>
> In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame.
> The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower
> left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel.
>
> >in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush,
> >can we not see translucent light through light colors in
> >the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both
> >above and below the ribs?
>
> I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system
> is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide
> UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause
> the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not
> necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think
> you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it
> to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet in Indiana |
That's NICE Larry! I especially like the colors/paint layout. I've wondered for
a long time how to blend in the paint right behind the pilot's area...I think
I'll do mine the way yours is layed out.
So for the umpteenth time I've just spoken the words "Wow, I hope mine ends up
THAT nice!"
JM
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Morlock
Sent: May 28, 2010 8:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Piet in Indiana
I'd like to introduce myself to everyone on the
Pietenpol list. My name is Larry Morlock and I'm the person Douwe Blumberg
referred to as having a new Pietenpol project in Columbus, Indiana. In
fact, I have the privilege of acquiring the Model A engine that was in Douwe's
Piet.
My project is not exactly new. I acquired it
as a partially completed project in 1993, worked on it for a couple of years and
then it languished for about 15 years until I retired last year. I've put
a lot of time into it since then. The attached photo shows it as I was
doing a preliminary weight and balance. The wing is now covered with
fabric and I'm about to start the enviable job of rib stitching.
I've enjoyed reading the Pietenpol list entries for
the last few months, and Douwe convinced me to start contributing to the
conversation. I plan to be in Brodhead this year so hope to meet up with
others on the list.
Larry
Morlock
Message 10
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|
Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer aren=92t the only ones who can smoke
=91em. I
have added a smoke system to my Pietenpol and after being disappointed
with
the initial results, I have tweaked the installation with a larger oil
supply line and now have outstanding smoke.
I used a 3.5 gallon outboard motor fuel tank which is positioned on the
floor between the front rudder pedals. When flying passengers I will
simply
remove the tank (it is held in place with a bungee cord), disconnect the
quick-disconnect on the outboard motor fuel line and get the tank out of
the
way. When I want to smoke =91em, I fill the tank with used automatic
transmission fluid (cost ' nothing, as opposed to the =93real smoke
oil=94,
Texaco Canopus 13, that Mike Cuy uses for $582 a 55 gallon drum, or the
baby
oil that Chuck favors at an even higher price). Then I reposition the
tank
on the floor board, stretch the bungee cord around to hold it in place,
reconnect the tank=92s quick disconnect and give the primer bulb a
couple of
squeezes to prime the smoke oil into the line.
The system is powered by an automobile windshield washer pump mounted on
the
firewall, with a momentary push button on the instrument panel to
energize
the pump. From the pump, I ran a line that uses about 12=94 of black
rubber
hose (which came with the pump) and then transitions to =BC=94 stainless
steel
tubing that runs to a port welded into the exhaust stack of # 1
cylinder.
I just did a quick test of it this morning before the predicted storms
roll
in, but will do a more extensive test next week, with pictures and
video. I
want to find out just how much smoke 3.5 gallons of transmission fluid
can
make.
Maybe I need to put the same system on my RV-4=85
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Message 11
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Oscar,
Thanks for anothe good post. Your following words solved the problem for me:
"In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame. The translucent
panel is completely bare fabric. The lower left hand quadrant is the latex-finished
panel."
Obviously I misunderstood what I was seeing. All my other questions and concerns
are moot. I will consider latex paint.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: May 28, 2010 7:55 AM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>
>
>
>Tim wrote:
>
>>was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex
>>finish version?
>
>No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary
>to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to
>block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house
>paint will do the job because they are all formulated to
>cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on).
>
>> Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent
>>(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we
>>conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black,
>>that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
>
>In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame.
>The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower
>left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel.
>
>>in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush,
>>can we not see translucent light through light colors in
>>the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both
>>above and below the ribs?
>
>I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system
>is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide
>UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause
>the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not
>necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think
>you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it
>to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
><clip>
Message 12
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Jack:
Hope you have fire sleeve on that black rubber hose! Smoke is OK.
Fire - not so much!
Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> 5/28/2010 9:38 AM >>>
Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer arent the only ones who can smoke em.
Message 13
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Thanks, John.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: John Franklin <jbfjr@peoplepc.com>
>Sent: May 28, 2010 6:10 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>
>
>Tim,
>
>If you browse through all of Oscar's links, you will find one that addresses that
very subject, and the conclusion was that the white latex blocks UV better
because of the titanium dioxide plus the improved reflectivity of the color:
>
>http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/latexpaint_uvbarrier.htm
>
>Regards,
>John F.
>GN-1
>Richmond, TX
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>>Sent: May 27, 2010 3:57 PM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>>
>>
>>Oscar,
>> I looked at your interesting post linked to your "flying squirrel" site.
Your methodology reflects the rigors of science in your
>>"day job." Thanks for starting this test.
>> However, was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex finish version?
Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent (upper right quadrant
in your test apparatus), should we conclude that if one of the base latex coats
had been black, that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
>> In other words, is there a real basis for the belief that a black basecoat
blocks UV? If so, to get this protection, do we need an extra finish coat if
using light colors, to be able to cover completely the dark undercoats? Thus
added protection at added weight.
>> BTW, in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, can we not
see translucent light through light colors in the wings, and thus through two
painted fabric layers, both above and below the ribs? (I recall seeing a couple
of pix like that, with planes flying overhead with the sun almost directly
behind. Finish unknown.)
>> Thanks for this test.
>>Tim in central TX
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>>Sent: May 27, 2010 8:02 AM
>>>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
>>>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>________________________________________
>
>
Message 14
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Me Too!!!!!!!!!!!!
do not archive
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 7:30 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
For those of you whose have not seen my Latex test panel project, it is
going on 5 years (in August) pointing true South at 6700 ft. in Colorado.
Still looks great. Punch tested it last year and one side the tester could
not punch the fabric and punched through on the other side only at the
maximum rating of the tester. This is with two cross-coats of
Sherwin-Williams Super Paint Gloss, on bare medium fabric on one side and on
top of a coat of Poly-Brush on the other.
This is exposed 7x7 and 365 days a year so if you have your plane out of
the hanger 100 hrs/year you will have to own your plane 438 years to get the
same exposure to the Sun (and leave it out in several hail/snow/rain
storms).
I definitely do not believe you need any black latex base coat, am
painting mine with two cross-coats of latex primer and two latex satin top
cross-coats.
rick
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
wrote:
<taildrags@hotmail.com>
Tim wrote:
>was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex
>finish version?
No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary
to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to
block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house
paint will do the job because they are all formulated to
cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on).
> Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent
>(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we
>conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black,
>that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame.
The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower
left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel.
>in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush,
>can we not see translucent light through light colors in
>the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both
>above and below the ribs?
I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system
is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide
UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause
the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not
necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think
you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it
to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 15
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Sounds great, Jack. I especially like your oil sourcing-- true Piet scrounging.
Dan H. will have to check the BP archives to see if Bernard ever did that.
Hey, if CG is Chuck "Baby Oil" Gantzer, will you become known as Jack "Tranny
Oil" Phillips? It has a NASCAR sound to it, maybe a C&W song to follow.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: May 28, 2010 9:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On!
Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer arent the only ones who can smoke em. I have added
a smoke system to my Pietenpol and after being disappointed with the initial
results, I have tweaked the installation with a larger oil supply line and
now have outstanding smoke.
I used a 3.5 gallon outboard motor fuel tank which is positioned on the floor between
the front rudder pedals. When flying passengers I will simply remove the
tank (it is held in place with a bungee cord), disconnect the quick-disconnect
on the outboard motor fuel line and get the tank out of the way. When I want
to smoke em, I fill the tank with used automatic transmission fluid (cost
nothing, as opposed to the real smoke oil, Texaco Canopus 13, that Mike Cuy uses
for $582 a 55 gallon drum, or the baby oil that Chuck favors at an even higher
price). Then I reposition the tank on the floor board, stretch the bungee
cord around to hold it in place, reconnect the tanks quick disconnect and give
the primer bulb a couple of squeezes to prime the smoke oil into the line.
The system is powered by an automobile windshield washer pump mounted on the firewall,
with a momentary push button on the instrument panel to energize the pump.
From the pump, I ran a line that uses about 12 of black rubber hose (which
came with the pump) and then transitions to stainless steel tubing that runs
to a port welded into the exhaust stack of # 1 cylinder.
I just did a quick test of it this morning before the predicted storms roll in,
but will do a more extensive test next week, with pictures and video. I want
to find out just how much smoke 3.5 gallons of transmission fluid can make.
Maybe I need to put the same system on my RV-4
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
<clip>
Message 16
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I was following a pick-up down the highway the other day that appeared
to
have that very system=85worked for several miles!!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
Do not archive
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 7:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On!
Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer aren=92t the only ones who can smoke
=91em. I
have added a smoke system to my Pietenpol and after being disappointed
with
the initial results, I have tweaked the installation with a larger oil
supply line and now have outstanding smoke.
I used a 3.5 gallon outboard motor fuel tank which is positioned on the
floor between the front rudder pedals. When flying passengers I will
simply
remove the tank (it is held in place with a bungee cord), disconnect the
quick-disconnect on the outboard motor fuel line and get the tank out of
the
way. When I want to smoke =91em, I fill the tank with used automatic
transmission fluid (cost ' nothing, as opposed to the =93real smoke
oil=94,
Texaco Canopus 13, that Mike Cuy uses for $582 a 55 gallon drum, or the
baby
oil that Chuck favors at an even higher price). Then I reposition the
tank
on the floor board, stretch the bungee cord around to hold it in place,
reconnect the tank=92s quick disconnect and give the primer bulb a
couple of
squeezes to prime the smoke oil into the line.
The system is powered by an automobile windshield washer pump mounted on
the
firewall, with a momentary push button on the instrument panel to
energize
the pump. From the pump, I ran a line that uses about 12=94 of black
rubber
hose (which came with the pump) and then transitions to =BC=94 stainless
steel
tubing that runs to a port welded into the exhaust stack of # 1
cylinder.
I just did a quick test of it this morning before the predicted storms
roll
in, but will do a more extensive test next week, with pictures and
video. I
want to find out just how much smoke 3.5 gallons of transmission fluid
can
make.
Maybe I need to put the same system on my RV-4=85
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Message 17
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Fantastic report Jack. I'm thrilled for you. You'll have a BLAST with
that system.
One thing I love to do on super calm nights before sunset is to cruise in l
evel flight, lay a track of smoke then do a strong pulling turn left or rig
ht. You look over your shoulder and can see how the horizontal tail vorti
ces swirl the smoke until it curls in on itself like you see in low, fast m
oving storm clouds. Another cool thing to do is a 60 degree steep turn
with smoke. When you run into your own smoke at the 360 degree point you
know your altitude didn't stray and you'll hit your wake/ propwash.
Now you've got me thinking (once I finally run out of my last 5 gallon cont
ainer of smoke oil) about switching to used transmission fluid.
What say you now about the color quality of the smoke ? White, off white
, gray white, ?
I only carry =BD gallon of smoke oil but if I would have to guess I can lay
7 or so swaths approximately 3,000 feet in length with that so I'm hoping
that with your 3.5 gallons you'll be able to smoke like crazy for a long ti
me.
One thing you might want to avoid is smoking at lower throttle settings.
Two things happen. You get raw fluid mixed with smoke because the your EG
T isn't hot enough to fully vaporize the flow and two, the raw fluid reduce
s the life of the rubber strands in your bungee cords---makes them stiff, s
omewhat brittle.
You'll notice when you replace your bungees again in a number of years when
they are ready once again to be replaced that the smoke side will be less
flexible than you non-smoking side.
Carry on !
[cid:image002.jpg@01CAFE5B.976D6B50]
Message 18
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Jack,
Have you considered sky-writing!? I've done the calculations for you: 3.5gals,
at 5,000', 30kts of wind, you can probably get "Smith Mountain Lake Bedford Lan..."!
Oh, you'll still have oil, but you will be out of gas! Better use the RV!
BTW, Congrates.
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299152#299152
Message 19
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| Subject: | First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP |
The weather finally cooperated today. Been waiting for 2 weeks for winds to be
under 10 mph - this morning they were gusting to 1mph with severe clear sky.
I bought N30PP, a GN-1 with a Piet wing from a retired gent, and it's finally
sitting in my hanger in Marshalltown, Iowa. 1.4 hours later of t&g, and sightseeing.
It was my first flight in a Piet style plane, or even an open cockpit - what a
blast!! Actually, it was my first tailwheel solo, come to think of it. All tailwheel
time to date has been with instructor cause they don't let the cub go Solo.
Glad I had the Cub time, the Grega flys pretty similar. It was interesting
to have to keep power in all the way onto the ground. Pulling power completely
off more than about 2 feet above the ground results in brick-like performance.
Anyway, just had to blabber, I had WAAAAY too much fun :D
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299173#299173
Message 20
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One question about Latex paint I haven't seen answered anywahere ia a procedure
or practical way to repair holes or tears. With other systems it is pretty well
spelled out but will fabric glue stick to the painted fabric and if not how
would one go about removing it? Anyone have suggestions? I would hesitate to
paint with Latex if I didn't have a way to repair it. Rodney Hall
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 |
N30PP
Congrats! Fun, ain't it?
60-65 on final is a good speed with 50 over the numbers and she'll 3-
point every time. Fly a nice high and tight pattern right to final
then cut the throttle and manage your speed with pitch (and a little
power when you feel the urge). You really can land a Piet in the
length of a tennis court with the net up.
Got any pictures of your "new" bird?
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
On May 28, 2010, at 2:32 PM, ldmill <lorin.miller@emerson.com> wrote:
> >
>
> The weather finally cooperated today. Been waiting for 2 weeks for
> winds to be under 10 mph - this morning they were gusting to 1mph
> with severe clear sky. I bought N30PP, a GN-1 with a Piet wing from
> a retired gent, and it's finally sitting in my hanger in
> Marshalltown, Iowa. 1.4 hours later of t&g, and sightseeing.
>
> It was my first flight in a Piet style plane, or even an open
> cockpit - what a blast!! Actually, it was my first tailwheel solo,
> come to think of it. All tailwheel time to date has been with
> instructor cause they don't let the cub go Solo. Glad I had the Cub
> time, the Grega flys pretty similar. It was interesting to have to
> keep power in all the way onto the ground. Pulling power completely
> off more than about 2 feet above the ground results in brick-like
> performance.
>
> Anyway, just had to blabber, I had WAAAAY too much fun :D
>
> Lorin
>
> --------
> Lorin Miller
> Waiex N81YX
> GN-1 N30PP
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 |
N30PP
There are a few pics on Westcoastpiet:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/n30pp.htm
<http://www.westcoastpiet.com/n30pp.htm>Ryan
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Congrats! Fun, ain't it?
>
> 60-65 on final is a good speed with 50 over the numbers and she'll 3-point
> every time. Fly a nice high and tight pattern right to final then cut the
> throttle and manage your speed with pitch (and a little power when you feel
> the urge). You really can land a Piet in the length of a tennis court with
> the net up.
>
> Got any pictures of your "new" bird?
>
> Dan
>
>
> --
> yocum@gmail.com
>
>
> On May 28, 2010, at 2:32 PM, ldmill <lorin.miller@emerson.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> The weather finally cooperated today. Been waiting for 2 weeks for winds
>> to be under 10 mph - this morning they were gusting to 1mph with severe
>> clear sky. I bought N30PP, a GN-1 with a Piet wing from a retired gent, and
>> it's finally sitting in my hanger in Marshalltown, Iowa. 1.4 hours later of
>> t&g, and sightseeing.
>>
>> It was my first flight in a Piet style plane, or even an open cockpit -
>> what a blast!! Actually, it was my first tailwheel solo, come to think of
>> it. All tailwheel time to date has been with instructor cause they don't let
>> the cub go Solo. Glad I had the Cub time, the Grega flys pretty similar. It
>> was interesting to have to keep power in all the way onto the ground.
>> Pulling power completely off more than about 2 feet above the ground results
>> in brick-like performance.
>>
>> Anyway, just had to blabber, I had WAAAAY too much fun :D
>>
>> Lorin
>>
>> --------
>> Lorin Miller
>> Waiex N81YX
>> GN-1 N30PP
>>
>>
>
>
Message 23
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Shad just gave me (us) a quick rundown of the procedure within the
last couple months. Google 'Yocum Shad pietenpol latex
site:matronics.com' and you'll probably find the discussion.
MEK is involved.
Dan
--
yocum@gmail.com
On May 28, 2010, at 3:03 PM, r.r.hall@cox.net wrote:
> One question about Latex paint I haven't seen answered anywahere ia
> a procedure or practical way to repair holes or tears. With
> other systems it is pretty well spelled out but will fabric glue
> stick to the painted fabric and if not how would one go about
> removing it? Anyone have suggestions? I would hesitate to paint with
> Latex if I didn't have a way to repair it. Rodney Hall
>
>
Message 24
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I'll be using Benjamin Moore Aura Exterior (Data Sheet attached). These are
low VOC paints who tout a very good cold joint result. One of the ASTM's
they are tested to is ASTM 522, which is bending the paint over a 1" dia
mandrel (flexible). Also advertised as "self priming," even over aluminum!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 5:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint
Tim wrote:
>was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex
>finish version?
No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary
to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to
block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house
paint will do the job because they are all formulated to
cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on).
> Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent
>(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we
>conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black,
>that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric?
In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame.
The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower
left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel.
>in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush,
>can we not see translucent light through light colors in
>the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both
>above and below the ribs?
I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system
is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide
UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause
the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not
necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think
you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it
to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 25
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| Subject: | First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 |
N30PP
CONGRATULATIONS on flying your newly purchased GN-1 Lorin ! (not to mention
congrats on your
1st conventional gear solo and 1st open cockpit time. Isn't it great ? Nothing
at all like a C-150
or Cherokee.
Good that you had plenty of J-3 Cub time and that you were discerning of waiting
for the best weather
conditions to fly. I congratulate you on your patience. I recall waiting for
nearly a WEEK for a fair
day to fly my Piet for the first time. It was maddening as the winds were gusty
for at least six straight
days and there was no way I was going to chance it.
Hope you have many, many, more hours of fun, safe, enjoyable flying !
Mike C.
Message 26
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| Subject: | First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 |
N30PP
You know, there was a time when I got out of flying - just wasn't as
excited about it as I thought I would be when I started. Then I got a
ride in a Piet at Brodhead. Now I own a Piet (well, 1/3 of one) and
fly every chance I get. Just went up last night for over an hour. Was
having so much fun I stayed up too long and ended up rolling it into
the hangar moments before it got too dark to see what I was doing. If
I lived at the field, I'd probably fly every morning and every
evening.
You're exactly right - nothing at all like a Cessna or Cherokee.
>(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>...Nothing at all like a C-150 or Cherokee. ...
>
>Mike C.
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 27
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One way I found to make 92gb smoke is to burn a hole in a piston, it is how ever
a black, noisy type of smoke, and doesn't last very long.
Shad
Message 28
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Hi,
Please help me find some one to finish my Piet - my builder contacted a case of
old age & had to stop building
The fuselage, tail feathers,ribs, center section & all the metal hardware, has
been built - we have a running Corvar engine on a test stand with motor mount
Need wings put together - (have spars in box from Aircraft Spruce)
Need landing gear ( have wheels & axels)
Need gas tank ( have a roil of aluminum)
I have a Moni Motorglider kit with engine, or money to trade for building
I am located in NW Alabama, just a flyer - not a builder
Thanks for any help you can offer
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299209#299209
Message 29
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| Subject: | First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 |
N30PP
Excellent news, Lorin. Will you be bringing it to Brodhead in a couple of
months?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ldmill
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1
N30PP
The weather finally cooperated today. Been waiting for 2 weeks for winds to
be under 10 mph - this morning they were gusting to 1mph with severe clear
sky. I bought N30PP, a GN-1 with a Piet wing from a retired gent, and it's
finally sitting in my hanger in Marshalltown, Iowa. 1.4 hours later of t&g,
and sightseeing.
It was my first flight in a Piet style plane, or even an open cockpit - what
a blast!! Actually, it was my first tailwheel solo, come to think of it. All
tailwheel time to date has been with instructor cause they don't let the cub
go Solo. Glad I had the Cub time, the Grega flys pretty similar. It was
interesting to have to keep power in all the way onto the ground. Pulling
power completely off more than about 2 feet above the ground results in
brick-like performance.
Anyway, just had to blabber, I had WAAAAY too much fun :D
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299173#299173
Message 30
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Isn't that the standard smoke system in a Corvair? Sorry - just kidding.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On!
One way I found to make 92gb smoke is to burn a hole in a piston, it is how
ever a black, noisy type of smoke, and doesn't last very long.
Shad
Message 31
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Smoke On!Jack, I love it-Jim lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On!
Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer aren't the only ones who can smoke 'em.
I have added a smoke system to my Pietenpol and after being
disappointed with the initial results, I have tweaked the installation
with a larger oil supply line and now have outstanding smoke.
I used a 3.5 gallon outboard motor fuel tank which is positioned on
the floor between the front rudder pedals. When flying passengers I
will simply remove the tank (it is held in place with a bungee cord),
disconnect the quick-disconnect on the outboard motor fuel line and get
the tank out of the way. When I want to smoke 'em, I fill the tank with
used automatic transmission fluid (cost - nothing, as opposed to the
"real smoke oil", Texaco Canopus 13, that Mike Cuy uses for $582 a 55
gallon drum, or the baby oil that Chuck favors at an even higher price).
Then I reposition the tank on the floor board, stretch the bungee cord
around to hold it in place, reconnect the tank's quick disconnect and
give the primer bulb a couple of squeezes to prime the smoke oil into
the line.
The system is powered by an automobile windshield washer pump mounted
on the firewall, with a momentary push button on the instrument panel to
energize the pump. From the pump, I ran a line that uses about 12" of
black rubber hose (which came with the pump) and then transitions to
=BC" stainless steel tubing that runs to a port welded into the exhaust
stack of # 1 cylinder.
I just did a quick test of it this morning before the predicted storms
roll in, but will do a more extensive test next week, with pictures and
video. I want to find out just how much smoke 3.5 gallons of
transmission fluid can make.
Maybe I need to put the same system on my RV-4.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Message 32
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Jack,
This system sound really cool. A real Rube Goldberg installation....these
are the BEST!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 9:38 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On!
Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer aren=99t the only ones who can smoke
=98em. I have added a smoke system to my Pietenpol and after being
disappointed with the initial results, I have tweaked the installation wi
th a larger oil supply line and now have outstanding smoke.
I used a 3.5 gallon outboard motor fuel tank which is positioned on the fl
oor between the front rudder pedals. When flying passengers I will simply
remove the tank (it is held in place with a bungee cord), disconnect the
quick-disconnect on the outboard motor fuel line and get the tank out of
the way. When I want to smoke =98em, I fill the tank with used aut
omatic transmission fluid (cost =93 nothing, as opposed to the
=9Creal smoke oil=9D, Texaco Canopus 13, that Mike Cuy uses for
$582 a 55 gallon drum, or the baby oil that Chuck favors at an even highe
r price). Then I reposition the tank on the floor board, stretch the bung
ee cord around to hold it in place, reconnect the tank=99s quick dis
connect and give the primer bulb a couple of squeezes to prime the smoke
oil into the line.
The system is powered by an automobile windshield washer pump mounted on
the firewall, with a momentary push button on the instrument panel to ene
rgize the pump. From the pump, I ran a line that uses about 12=9D
of black rubber hose (which came with the pump) and then transitions to
=C2=BC=9D stainless steel tubing that runs to a port welded into th
e exhaust stack of # 1 cylinder.
I just did a quick test of it this morning before the predicted storms rol
l in, but will do a more extensive test next week, with pictures and video
. I want to find out just how much smoke 3.5 gallons of transmission flui
d can make.
Maybe I need to put the same system on my RV-4
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
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Message 33
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But very, very exciting!
>
>One way I found to make 92gb smoke is to burn a hole in a piston, it
>is how ever a black, noisy type of smoke, and doesn't last very long.
>
>Shad
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Builder Needed |
I'm in cleveland about 30 miles north of Birmingham. I would be interested in a
little more info on your where abouts and such. Message me off list, perhaps
we can work something out.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299225#299225
Message 35
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There was an article recently in the April 2010 issue of Kitplanes starting at
page 58 that discussed patching when latex paint had been used on Dacron. It
was in a regular column called "The Dawn Patrol." They used Stewart Systems
Ecobond cement for the repair, with reference to AC 43.13-1A Glidden Evermore
latex house paint was the paint, thinned with Floetrol and a little distilled
water.
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299229#299229
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