Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: first really big mistake! (Michael Perez)
2. 07:00 AM - Re: first really big mistake! (GliderMike)
3. 08:26 AM - Re: Re: first really big mistake! (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
4. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: first really big mistake! (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
5. 10:06 AM - Re: first really big mistake! (GliderMike)
6. 10:23 AM - Re: Re: first really big mistake! (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
7. 10:51 AM - Re: first really big mistake! (GliderMike)
8. 11:44 AM - period between condition inspections (Dan Yocum)
9. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: first really big mistake! (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
10. 12:11 PM - Re: period between condition inspections (John Hofmann)
11. 12:11 PM - Re: period between condition inspections (Perry Rhoads)
12. 12:13 PM - period between condition inspections (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
13. 12:23 PM - Re: period between condition inspections (Ryan Mueller)
14. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: first really big mistake! (Graham Hansen)
15. 12:53 PM - Re: period between condition inspections (Dan Yocum)
16. 01:10 PM - Re: period between condition inspections (GliderMike)
17. 01:24 PM - Re: period between condition inspections (Ryan Mueller)
18. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: period between condition inspections (Dan Yocum)
19. 02:17 PM - Re: period between condition inspections (GliderMike)
20. 03:09 PM - Rudder cable tension changes in motion (Michael Perez)
21. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: period between condition inspections (Ryan Mueller)
22. 03:27 PM - Re: period between condition inspections (Roman Bukolt)
23. 04:01 PM - Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion (Peter W Johnson)
24. 04:48 PM - Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion (GliderMike)
25. 07:34 PM - Re: Wing on!! (ALAN LYSCARS)
26. 08:24 PM - Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion (Michael Perez)
27. 10:00 PM - Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion (GliderMike)
28. 10:19 PM - Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion (Ryan Mueller)
29. 10:28 PM - Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion (GliderMike)
30. 10:50 PM - Re: Wing on!! (Jim Markle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
I've got one or two of those bogus rulers in my shop as well! I don't know
how those continue to leak into the market?- I try to weed them out and r
eplace with rulers that are correct, but I keep getting bogus ones from tim
e to time.
-
On the upside, I have lots of kindling wood...
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
There are a couple of brothers here in my area that are builders, and I've heard
their theory is "Whoever has the most scrap left, has the best airplane!"
do not archive
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299852#299852
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
I think I would stay away from those guys
Do not Archive
In a message dated 6/3/2010 10:01:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
glidermikeg@yahoo.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
There are a couple of brothers here in my area that are builders, and I've
heard their theory is "Whoever has the most scrap left, has the best
airplane!"
do not archive
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299852#299852
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
I think I would stay away from those guys
Do not Archive
In a message dated 6/3/2010 10:01:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
glidermikeg@yahoo.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
There are a couple of brothers here in my area that are builders, and I've
heard their theory is "Whoever has the most scrap left, has the best
airplane!"
do not archive
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299852#299852
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
I think their deal is, everything has to be perfect, not almost perfect, but perfect.
do not archive
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299879#299879
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
it may be fun to watch if perfection is the key element. Who will be the
judge and will they be consulting Dan as the defender of the faith keeper of
honest and exclusive guide and interpreter of the lost Bernard documents.
This is a most important aspect of perfection, to what degree or ISO
standard are they measuring tolerance to? The challenge sounds like calipers at
50 yards on the first standard day of the month
Do not archive
In a message dated 6/3/2010 1:06:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
glidermikeg@yahoo.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
I think their deal is, everything has to be perfect, not almost perfect,
but perfect.
do not archive
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299879#299879
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
A hundred yards! [Laughing]
I've heard they built a Storch replica, among other things, that is pretty authentic,
but I haven't seen it. I need to get a mutual acquaintance to introduce
me to them. These guys market a wind speed indicator that is also used as an
airspeed indicator on the ultralight glider I fly. I understand they are probably
more eccentric than most Piet builders (and I suspect Piet builders are
more eccentric than most homebuilders, and quite proud of it) [Laughing]
do not archive
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299888#299888
Message 8
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| Subject: | period between condition inspections |
Hi all,
Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find the
correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time allowed
between condition inspections amateur-built experimental aircraft and
the person who is doing the inspection is telling me something different.
I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of
inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my A&P
is saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the prior
inspection was completed.
For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I think
the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P says I need
to get it done by 6/12/10.
Can anyone point me to the correct FAR?
Thanks,
Dan
PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the
inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
I have seen the Storch replica the Hall's brothers are
building...beautiful craftsmanship, we had one of our EAA chapter
meetings at their shop in Morgan UT. You are correct they manufacture
the Hall airspeed indicator, that's where they made their first million
starting back late 70's early 80's and still going strong today.
Brian
SLT-UT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GliderMike
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: first really big mistake!
<glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
A hundred yards! [Laughing]
I've heard they built a Storch replica, among other things, that is
pretty authentic, but I haven't seen it. I need to get a mutual
acquaintance to introduce me to them. These guys market a wind speed
indicator that is also used as an airspeed indicator on the ultralight
glider I fly. I understand they are probably more eccentric than most
Piet builders (and I suspect Piet builders are more eccentric than most
homebuilders, and quite proud of it) [Laughing]
do not archive
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299888#299888
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
It is 12 calendar months so you have until the end of June. The wording is probably
contained in your operating limitations. It will read something like this:
"No person must operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12 calendar months
it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with the scope
and detail of appendix D to part 43, or other FAA-approved programs, and was
found to be in a condition for safe operation. As part of the condition inspection,
cockpit instruments must be appropriately marked and needed placards installed
in accordance with 91.9. In addition, system-essential controls must be
in good condition, securely mounted, clearly marked, and provide for ease of
operation. This inspection will be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records."
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jun 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find the correct
verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time allowed between condition
inspections amateur-built experimental aircraft and the person who is doing the
inspection is telling me something different.
>
> I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of inspection until
the end of the month in the following year, but my A&P is saying that it ends
exactly 1 year, to the day, after the prior inspection was completed.
>
> For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I think the inspection
is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P says I need to get it
done by 6/12/10.
>
> Can anyone point me to the correct FAR?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the inspection
on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy.
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
Dan,
It's listed in your operating limitations. Most say 12 calendar months, just
as you thought. Not a clue as to the FAR number.
Perry Rhoads
N12939
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum@fnal.gov>
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: period between condition inspections
>
> Hi all,
>
> Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find the
> correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time allowed between
> condition inspections amateur-built experimental aircraft and the person
> who is doing the inspection is telling me something different.
>
> I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of inspection
> until the end of the month in the following year, but my A&P is saying
> that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the prior inspection was
> completed.
>
> For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I think
> the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P says I need
> to get it done by 6/12/10.
>
> Can anyone point me to the correct FAR?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the
> inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy.
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | period between condition inspections |
Dan-- the short answer is you are correct. The last sign off is good until the
end of the month of the year following the date of sign off. (that's why smart
shoppers try to get a plane signed off near the 1st of the month, just like
your medical or flight review) The
The long answer is I can't find the FAR just yet which specifies this
but know it follows the same scope as an annual inspection for certified aircraft.
A condition inspection is required every 12 calendar months on amateur-built aircraft.
This check is similar to an annual inspection required by FAR Part 43
on production airplanes. The Phase 2 Operating Limitations specifically refer
to FAR Part 43, Appendix D, as the guide to performing this inspection. The inspection
can be performed by any licensed A & P mechanic, an FAA Approved Repair
Station, or by the builder of the airplane provided the builder obtains a "Repairman's
Certificate" from the FAA. FAA Advisory Circular 65-23A is available
for information concerning application and privileges of this certificate.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
You can also find the wording in FAA Order 8130-2F, page 165-2, para 22. Th
e
full doc is here:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77A132602
A4E1F9A862576B3005D253D?OpenDocument
<http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77A13260
2A4E1F9A862576B3005D253D?OpenDocument>Here's
the particular page:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/8130%20165-2.pdf
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:11 PM, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>wro
te:
> jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
>
> It is 12 calendar months so you have until the end of June. The wording i
s
> probably contained in your operating limitations. It will read something
> like this:
>
> "No person must operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12
> calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance
> with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, or other FAA-approved
> programs, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation. As part
of
> the condition inspection, cockpit instruments must be appropriately marke
d
> and needed placards installed in accordance with =A7 91.9. In addition,
> system-essential controls must be in good condition, securely mounted,
> clearly marked, and provide for ease of operation. This inspection will b
e
> recorded in the aircraft maintenance records."
>
> -john-
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison, WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
> On Jun 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find the
> correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time allowed between
> condition inspections amateur-built experimental aircraft and the person
who
> is doing the inspection is telling me something different.
> >
> > I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of
> inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my A&P i
s
> saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the prior inspectio
n
> was completed.
> >
> > For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I think
> the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P says I need
to
> get it done by 6/12/10.
> >
> > Can anyone point me to the correct FAR?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >
> > PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the
> inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy.
> >
> > --
> > Dan Yocum
> > Fermilab 630.840.6509
> > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: first really big mistake! |
If a person has never made a mistake, then it is a certainty that person
never built an airplane!
(Don't feel bad about making a mistake; you won't be the first, or last,
to do so.)
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
Thanks everyone!
Ryan, your google-fu is greater than my google-fu.
Dan
do not archive
On 06/03/2010 02:20 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> You can also find the wording in FAA Order 8130-2F, page 165-2, para 22.
> The full doc is here:
>
> http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77A132602A4E1F9A862576B3005D253D?OpenDocument
>
> <http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77A132602A4E1F9A862576B3005D253D?OpenDocument>Here's
> the particular page:
>
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/8130%20165-2.pdf
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:11 PM, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
> <mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>> wrote:
>
> <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com <mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>>
>
> It is 12 calendar months so you have until the end of June. The
> wording is probably contained in your operating limitations. It will
> read something like this:
>
> "No person must operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12
> calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in
> accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, or
> other FAA-approved programs, and was found to be in a condition for
> safe operation. As part of the condition inspection, cockpit
> instruments must be appropriately marked and needed placards
> installed in accordance with 91.9. In addition, system-essential
> controls must be in good condition, securely mounted, clearly
> marked, and provide for ease of operation. This inspection will be
> recorded in the aircraft maintenance records."
>
> -john-
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison, WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com <mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
>
> On Jun 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>>
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to
> find the correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time
> allowed between condition inspections amateur-built experimental
> aircraft and the person who is doing the inspection is telling me
> something different.
> >
> > I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of
> inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my
> A&P is saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the
> prior inspection was completed.
> >
> > For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I
> think the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P
> says I need to get it done by 6/12/10.
> >
> > Can anyone point me to the correct FAR?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >
> > PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do
> the inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy.
> >
> > --
> > Dan Yocum
> > Fermilab 630.840.6509
> > yocum@fnal.gov <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
FAR 43.1 (b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the FAA has
issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a
different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft." FAR 91.319 (i)
indirectly deals with the condition inspection deal. The FAR's are pretty vague
when it comes to Experimentals. If you understand the deal with FAR 91.319
(i) is talking about your operating limitations which were issued when the
airworthiness certificate was issued. Phase 1 and Phase 2 of your operating limitations
will indicate when the condition inspections are due. I found a Power
Point presentation done by Jim Pratt, FAA Aviation Safety Inspector of the
Detroit Manufacturing Satellite Inspection Office on the faa.gov website. I
don't know how old the presentation is. There was a link to an information site
at the end of the presentation, and it doesn't work. I also did a quick search
at faa.gov looking for amateur built aircraft condition inspection, and came
up with 193 possibilities.
Bottom line is your Operating Limitations should tell you how often and how long
they are good for on the yearly condition inspections
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299911#299911
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
Ah soooo....
:)
do not archive
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone!
>
> Ryan, your google-fu is greater than my google-fu.
>
> Dan
>
> do not archive
>
>
> On 06/03/2010 02:20 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
>
>> You can also find the wording in FAA Order 8130-2F, page 165-2, para 22.
>> The full doc is here:
>>
>>
>> http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77A132
602A4E1F9A862576B3005D253D?OpenDocument
>>
>> <
>> http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77A132
602A4E1F9A862576B3005D253D?OpenDocument
>> >Here's
>> the particular page:
>>
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/8130%20165-2.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:11 PM, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>> <mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com <mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>>
>>
>>
>> It is 12 calendar months so you have until the end of June. The
>> wording is probably contained in your operating limitations. It will
>> read something like this:
>>
>> "No person must operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12
>> calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in
>> accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, or
>> other FAA-approved programs, and was found to be in a condition for
>> safe operation. As part of the condition inspection, cockpit
>> instruments must be appropriately marked and needed placards
>> installed in accordance with =A7 91.9. In addition, system-essential
>> controls must be in good condition, securely mounted, clearly
>> marked, and provide for ease of operation. This inspection will be
>> recorded in the aircraft maintenance records."
>>
>> -john-
>>
>> John Hofmann
>> Vice-President, Information Technology
>> The Rees Group, Inc.
>> 2424 American Lane
>> Madison, WI 53704
>> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>> Fax: 608.443.2474
>> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com <mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>>
>> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>>
>>
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to
>> find the correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time
>> allowed between condition inspections amateur-built experimental
>> aircraft and the person who is doing the inspection is telling me
>> something different.
>> >
>> > I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of
>> inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my
>> A&P is saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the
>> prior inspection was completed.
>> >
>> > For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I
>> think the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P
>> says I need to get it done by 6/12/10.
>> >
>> > Can anyone point me to the correct FAR?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Dan
>> >
>> > PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do
>> the inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dan Yocum
>> > Fermilab 630.840.6509
>> > yocum@fnal.gov <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
>>
>> > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
>> things."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Li
st
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
OK, I'm going to take the easy road and play dumb ('cause it's easy for
me!).
You're the 3rd or 4th person to use the phrase "your Operating
Limitations." When it comes to the condition inspection, don't all
"Experimental Amateur-Built Aircraft with a Special Airworthiness
Certificate(tm)" follow the same limitation? I can understand one Piet
having a different gross weight or Vne from another, so the operating
limitations are going to be different. But, when it comes to something
like this, they all follow the same rule - "a condition inspection
within the preceeding 12 calendar months" - right?
Thanks for bearing with me,
Dan
On 06/03/2010 03:10 PM, GliderMike wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "GliderMike"<glidermikeg@yahoo.com>
>
> FAR 43.1 (b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the FAA
has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued
a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft." FAR 91.319
(i) indirectly deals with the condition inspection deal. The FAR's are pretty
vague when it comes to Experimentals. If you understand the deal with FAR 91.319
(i) is talking about your operating limitations which were issued when the
airworthiness certificate was issued. Phase 1 and Phase 2 of your operating
limitations will indicate when the condition inspections are due. I found a
Power Point presentation done by Jim Pratt, FAA Aviation Safety Inspector of the
Detroit Manufacturing Satellite Inspection Office on the faa.gov website.
I don't know how old the presentation is. There was a link to an information
site at the end of the presentation, and it doesn't work. I also did a quick
search at faa.gov looking for amateur built aircraft
c!
> ondition inspection, and came up with 193 possibilities.
>
> Bottom line is your Operating Limitations should tell you how often and how long
they are good for on the yearly condition inspections
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
Most likely that will be the case, but it can vary, especially when the airplanes
are in different parts of the country, and the builders are using different
DAR's or FSDO personnel. One inspector might not like a particular model, and
might put more restrictive limitations on a model, than another inspector.
It is not supposed to be that way, but........
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299920#299920
Message 20
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| Subject: | Rudder cable tension changes in motion |
I now have my rudder cables installed from the pilot rudder bar back.- Wh
en the rudder is in the neutral position, the cables are the most tight. As
I go towards full left or full right rudder, the tension decreases.- Whe
n I adjust tension at these two positions, (to prevent cable sag) then go b
ack to neutral, the tension seems too tight.
-
I put my cable tensiometer on the cables while at the neutral position, (hi
ghest tension) it reads about 2.5. (2.5 what? It does not have any units on
it. I assume pounds, although that seems too light.)
-
Is it normal for the tension to change through the rudder travel?
-
If someone were to put an actual number for rudder cable tension using a ca
ble tensiometer, what would it be?
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
They could choose to specify special operating limitations depending upon
the aircraft, but AFAIK this is a rare occurence for "normal" homebuilt
aircraft. If you don't have any documentation that came with the aircraft
specifying any special operating limitations regarding the annual condition
inspection, then you should be fine using the standard statement from Order
8130 as your "approved data".
Ryan
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> OK, I'm going to take the easy road and play dumb ('cause it's easy for
> me!).
>
> You're the 3rd or 4th person to use the phrase "your Operating
> Limitations." When it comes to the condition inspection, don't all
> "Experimental Amateur-Built Aircraft with a Special Airworthiness
> Certificate(tm)" follow the same limitation? I can understand one Piet
> having a different gross weight or Vne from another, so the operating
> limitations are going to be different. But, when it comes to something like
> this, they all follow the same rule - "a condition inspection within the
> preceeding 12 calendar months" - right?
>
> Thanks for bearing with me,
> Dan
>
>
> On 06/03/2010 03:10 PM, GliderMike wrote:
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "GliderMike"<glidermikeg@yahoo.com
>> >
>>
>> FAR 43.1 (b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the
>> FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously
>> issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft."
>> FAR 91.319 (i) indirectly deals with the condition inspection deal. The
>> FAR's are pretty vague when it comes to Experimentals. If you understand
>> the deal with FAR 91.319 (i) is talking about your operating limitations
>> which were issued when the airworthiness certificate was issued. Phase 1
>> and Phase 2 of your operating limitations will indicate when the condition
>> inspections are due. I found a Power Point presentation done by Jim Pratt,
>> FAA Aviation Safety Inspector of the Detroit Manufacturing Satellite
>> Inspection Office on the faa.gov website. I don't know how old the
>> presentation is. There was a link to an information site at the end of the
>> presentation, and it doesn't work. I also did a quick search at faa.govlooking
for amateur built aircraft
>>
>
> c!
>
>> ondition inspection, and came up with 193 possibilities.
>>
>> Bottom line is your Operating Limitations should tell you how often and
>> how long they are good for on the yearly condition inspections
>>
>>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: period between condition inspections |
I just had my condition inspection done today, 6/3/2010. My last
insp. was 5/1/2009. He said it should be done by the end of the month
of the previous yr. In my case , I just couldn't fly on Jun1st or 2nd.
On Jun 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find
> the correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time
> allowed between condition inspections amateur-built experimental
> aircraft and the person who is doing the inspection is telling me
> something different.
>
> I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of
> inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my
> A&P is saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the
> prior inspection was completed.
>
> For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I
> think the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P
> says I need to get it done by 6/12/10.
>
> Can anyone point me to the correct FAR?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the
> inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy.
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Rudder cable tension changes in motion |
Michael,
I have just had my control cables adjusted (on a Zodiac 601XL) and the guy
doing it used a similar tensiometer. He had a conversion chart to convert
the reading to pounds dependant on cable size.
I can't say what the 2.5 means but it seems light.
Don't forget, the distance from the center of the rudder bar to the cable
attach point is not the same as the rudder control horn distance. There will
be some difference in the geometry and therefore tension.
I made mine "about right" when the rudder was straight.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Friday, 4 June 2010 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder cable tension changes in motion
I now have my rudder cables installed from the pilot rudder bar back. When
the rudder is in the neutral position, the cables are the most tight. As I
go towards full left or full right rudder, the tension decreases. When I
adjust tension at these two positions, (to prevent cable sag) then go back
to neutral, the tension seems too tight.
I put my cable tensiometer on the cables while at the neutral position,
(highest tension) it reads about 2.5. (2.5 what? It does not have any units
on it. I assume pounds, although that seems too light.)
Is it normal for the tension to change through the rudder travel?
If someone were to put an actual number for rudder cable tension using a
cable tensiometer, what would it be?
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion |
Go to: http://www.optimanufacturing.com/Documents/SOP-TN-001%20T5%20Manual%20Rev10.pdf where you will find a manual for your tensionmeter. Section VI in the manual tells you how to check and/or calibrate your unit. If you bought the meter new, it should have come with a table that indicates the conversions depending on which riser you have in place. It uses different risers for different size cables. You have a T5 version, but I didn't notice which version you had. They have pictures of both versions, so you will be able to know which chart to use. The dial on the T5 is not a "direct reading" dial. You must look up the reading in a chart to determine actual tension. The way the
T5 is set up makes it more versatile than a direct reading tensionmeter. i have
used the T6-8000, and found it to be a quality tool.
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299941#299941
Message 25
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John,
Buzz me with your particulars: alyscars@myfairpoint.net
And Jim Markel- in case you're loitering- my door's open too!
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: John Recine
To: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!!
Alan,
I was just in Manchester yesterday
Contact me off list as I will be back in the area this summer
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars@myfairpoint.net>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 23:23:50 -0400
To: Piet List<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!!
----- Original Message -----
From: ALAN LYSCARS
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!!
Dan..
Congratulations to you on the birth of your Girl! I hope she
chug-a-chug-a-chugs and tick-a-tick-a-ticks along for you for a very
long time in Blue Skies. What did the little one weigh in at?
Happy for you,
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the
end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available
hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten
people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and
persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing
and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back
and look at something that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I
am on to re-installing all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control
cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want
to taxi on Monday. Hope the weather holds out!!
So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know
at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come
together!! Brodhead or Bust!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
=B7=9B~=89=ED=B2,=DE=AE=E9=A2=A2=B7=9A
Message 26
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| Subject: | Rudder cable tension changes in motion |
That was the conclusion I came to watching the mechanics of the rudder syst
em as it moved from full right to full left over and over.- I'll see if I
can compare to Mike Cuy's plane's feel.
-
Glidermike-mentioned a conversion table for my tensiometer...I do have on
e that came with the unit.- I was using the #1 riser on my T5-2002-104-00
tensiometer. The lowest rating on my sheet is 30 lbs. at number 9 on the m
eter for 3/32 cable. I would guess my 2.5 meter-reading-is about-7 po
unds.
-
Anyone know a ball park tension for Pietenpol rudder cables? (Just curious.
)
-
-
-
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion |
I wouldn't want to guess rudder tension on a Piet, but for what its worth, some
of the later Cessna 182's before 1963, and pre-1963 185's call for 20 to 40 pounds
of tension on the rudders. The manual I have access to doesn't give the
tension for the rest of the single engine tri-gear airplanes. They list aileron
tension as 40 pounds on the 150 to 185 series. If I remember correctly, those
airplanes use 1/8 inch cable, rather than 3/32 inch cable. I would think
40 pounds would be too high with 3/32 inch cable, but I would also think 7 pounds
might be a little light. You want enough tension on the cable so it doesn't
have slack in it when it is at the lightest tension point, or when it is hot
out, so it doesn't pop out of the pulleys. You want the tension light enough
so it doesn't wear the pulleys. If the pulleys are slightly mis-aligned, you
may not notice the misalignment until they show wear. If it were my airplane,
I would probably go with 15 to 20 pounds of cable tension. It is not my airplane,
so I would say go with what you think is good. Maybe some of the folks
that have been flying their airplanes a while will have some input.
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299979#299979
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion |
Somewhere between a "fwong" and a "twang"......"fwang"? :)
Ryan
Do not archive
On Jun 3, 2010, at 10:22 PM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> That was the conclusion I came to watching the mechanics of the rudder
system as it moved from full right to full left over and over. I'll see
if I can compare to Mike Cuy's plane's feel.
>
> Glidermike mentioned a conversion table for my tensiometer...I do have
one that came with the unit. I was using the #1 riser on my
T5-2002-104-00 tensiometer. The lowest rating on my sheet is 30 lbs. at
number 9 on the meter for 3/32 cable. I would guess my 2.5 meter reading
is about 7 pounds.
>
> Anyone know a ball park tension for Pietenpol rudder cables? (Just
curious.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion |
Ok, my curiosity as to whether my guess was right is up now. Someone with a flying
airplane measure their cable tension, and see if a "fwang" is anywhere close
to 20 pounds of tension. [Rolling Eyes]
do not archive
--------
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299982#299982
Message 30
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Noted Alan!! Next time I'm in the NH area I would love to drop by!
Thanks for the offer and I won't forget it.... :-)
jm
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: ALAN LYSCARS
Sent: Jun 3, 2010 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!!
John,
Buzz me with your particulars: alyscars@myfairpoint.net
And Jim Markel- in case you're loitering- my door's open too!
Al
----- Original Message -----
From:
John Recine
To: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing
on!!
Alan,
I was just in Manchester yesterday
Contact
me off list as I will be back in the area this summer
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars@myfairpoint.net>
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 23:23:50 -0400
To: Piet List<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!!
----- Original Message -----
From: ALAN
LYSCARS
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!!
Dan..
Congratulations to you on the birth of your Girl! I hope she
chug-a-chug-a-chugs and tick-a-tick-a-ticks along for you for a very long time
in Blue Skies. What did the little one weigh in at?
Happy for you,
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
----- Original Message -----
From:
helspersew@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:11
PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!!
Secrets revealed!!!
Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the
end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available
hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten people
to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and
persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing and
struts back in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back and look
at something that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to
re-installing all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel
tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on
Monday. Hope the weather holds out!!
So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know at
times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come
together!! Brodhead or Bust!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
~,
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