---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/15/10: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:51 AM - plug wire test ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 2. 07:02 AM - FAA inspections (Oscar Zuniga) 3. 07:29 AM - Re: plug wire test ? (899PM) 4. 07:54 AM - newbie questions (Douwe Blumberg) 5. 08:09 AM - Re: plug wire test ? (Don Emch) 6. 08:19 AM - Re: plug wire test ? (Steve Ruse) 7. 08:23 AM - Re: plug wire test ? (Jeff Boatright) 8. 08:43 AM - Re: plug wire test ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 9. 09:16 AM - Re: plug wire test ? (taildrags) 10. 09:26 AM - Re: Tough choices (Bill Church) 11. 10:47 AM - trailering the Piet (Oscar Zuniga) 12. 02:41 PM - Re: newbie questions (Kringle) 13. 02:49 PM - Re: FAA inspections (Kringle) 14. 05:15 PM - Re: newbie questions (echobravo4) 15. 05:35 PM - A65s are bulletproof! (Dan Yocum) 16. 05:39 PM - Final inspection scheduled (helspersew@aol.com) 17. 05:48 PM - Re: Final inspection scheduled (Tim Willis) 18. 06:39 PM - Re: A65s are bulletproof! (Steve Ruse) 19. 06:42 PM - Re: Final inspection scheduled (Ben Charvet) 20. 06:55 PM - Re: A65s are bulletproof! (Ben Charvet) 21. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: plug wire test ? (shad bell) 22. 07:41 PM - Re: plug wire test ? (shad bell) 23. 08:12 PM - Re: A65s are bulletproof! (Ryan Mueller) 24. 08:35 PM - Re: A65s are bulletproof! (John Recine) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:50 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: plug wire test ? Any way to test copper stranded core spark plug wires for the simple A-65 w ith unshielded (Eisman) mags ? After testing all the plugs (all good) in a pressurized spark tester, insur ing timing was correct, and cleaning and gapping both points I'm still getting a 125 rpm L mag drop. Mag cap is not cracked, all in order inside mag. If it was the condenser I'd be seeing point burning which I'm not. Thinking of just going to Autozone to get a generic automotive set and re-s oldering the mag and plug end terminals on the bottom (L) four wires. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:42 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: FAA inspections There are no inspections or permissions required from the FAA to begin building or continue building your experimental homebuilt airplane. There used to be a requirement for "pre-cover" and other progress inspections, but the only thing now required is a final inspection by an FAA inspector or an FAA "Designated Airworthiness Representative" (DAR). However, as others have pointed out, it is very useful and strongly recommended that you have an EAA Technical Counselor or other experienced builder look over your project from time to time and certainly at key points in the construction. They aren't there to criticize your work... they are there to help with tips, ideas, and suggestions... and to pull your bacon out of the fire in case they see something that might compromise airworthiness. There is a requirement that you document your construction progress. Keep a log, take photos, keep receipts and notes- because you need to be able to demonstrate that the airplane was at least 51% amateur-built as the FAA defines that. Not that it was 51% built by the same amateur (you); it can be sold or passed on from builder to builder until completed or it can be built by siblings, friends, or as a group project- just not "for pay" nor using large subassemblies from commercial airplanes. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:22 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plug wire test ? From: "899PM" Mike, If you find a set with copper wire, let us know the PN#. Thanx. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301292#301292 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:10 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: newbie questions John and all newcomers, As I see it, and I'm sure many will concur, if the main purpose of this list isn't to share information and encouragement with the goal of helping everybody stick it through to the end and produce a safe and airworthy flying machine, then this is just another social "chat room". Ask away, we've all asked them before, and yes... sometimes you hear them a lot (latex paint, wider fuselages, glass panels and various flotation devices) but there's enough of us out there that somebody usually will pick up the ball and shoot an answer. Though it always is good to ck the archives first. Just start at the beginning, start building and don't over think this thing and one day you'll be done (oh, and acquire a copy of "The Great Waldo Pepper") so you'll understand all these odd quotes we tack onto our postings). I was there about six months ago, but now I'm building again, but that's a different story! One of the nice things about the Piet fraternity is that a hierarchy hasn't seemed to evolve. Doesn't seem to matter how much you spend, or how many coats of dope you used, or how much chrome you put on your new engine, a Piet is a Piet and they seem to be enjoyed and appreciated by all. Douwe Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plug wire test ? From: "Don Emch" Hey Mike, I think your buddy Don Helmick might have a set of unshielded plug wires. Also, if you'd like I have a spare Bendix lunchbox mag freshly overhauled, that you'd be welcome to use until you get straightened out. It has an unshielded harness. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301300#301300 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:17 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plug wire test ? Mike, You'll need a helper to perform this test. First, remove each lead from the spark plugs and remove one spark plug from each cylinder to make sure the engine won't fire. Removing the plugs from each cylinder also lets you spin the prop faster for a stronger spark, and higher RPMs more accurately depict how the mags are working when the engine is running. Brief your helper on hand propping if they are unfamiliar (safety first). Then, with your helper standing well behind the prop, spin the prop as fast as possible while your helper holds the spark plug lead to his tongue. If he falls on the ground and wets himself, that mag is good. If he stumbles and winces but doesn't fall, you have a weak mag. Perform this test for all eight wires, and write down your results, so far I haven't been able to find a helper who can remember anything worth a darn. Hope this helps. Steve do not archive Quoting "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" : > Any way to test copper stranded core spark plug wires for the simple > A-65 with unshielded (Eisman) mags ? > > > After testing all the plugs (all good) in a pressurized spark > tester, insuring timing was correct, and cleaning > and gapping both points I'm still getting a 125 rpm L mag drop. > Mag cap is not cracked, all in order inside mag. > > If it was the condenser I'd be seeing point burning which I'm not. > > Thinking of just going to Autozone to get a generic automotive set > and re-soldering the mag and plug end terminals > on the bottom (L) four wires. > > Mike C. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:03 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plug wire test ? Mike, Did you switch the various components (cap, wires, plugs) from bad side (left) to good side (right), one at a time? This may help with the diagnostics if switching one component reverses the good side versus bad side. Jeff >Any way to test copper stranded core spark plug wires for the simple >A-65 with unshielded (Eisman) mags ? > > >After testing all the plugs (all good) in a pressurized spark >tester, insuring timing was correct, and cleaning >and gapping both points I'm still getting a 125 rpm L mag drop. >Mag cap is not cracked, all in order inside mag. > >If it was the condenser I'd be seeing point burning which I'm not. > >Thinking of just going to Autozone to get a generic automotive set >and re-soldering the mag and plug end terminals >on the bottom (L) four wires. > >Mike C. > > -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:01 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: plug wire test ? All good suggestions-thank you guys. I'll look for that unsuspecting help er Steve. We have a few winners out at the airport who would fit the bill nicely and it might stop them from coming by and telling me unsolicited stories that n ever seem to end. Last year I found a fatigued solder joint/wire to plug clip connection prio r to Oshkosh and simply resoldered it to a freshly cut strand of copper cor e wire. I'm thinking of making up one new L mag wire and rotating that among the bo ttom plugs to see if I can find/eliminate the offending wire. Good suggestion on swapping mag caps though both appear sound. Never know .. Yes Don, Don Helmick said I could bring my wires down and he'd test them. He let me use his pressurized spark plug tester last week. Thanks for t he offer of the spare mag. Right now I've got your right hand man and mine comin g out Weds. night to troubleshoot w/ me--- Bill Klosz. He loves telling the story about how many times they tore down your engine to find that plugged oil ga lley ! Like Bill says they can do any job and the impossible jobs just take a litt le longer. His other saying is "good enough for who it's for". Mike C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plug wire test ? From: "taildrags" Mikee: if you want to convert to automotive plugs, Great Plains offers shielded plug adapters for use with standard mag harnesses, here: http://www.greatplainsas.com/scspkplug.html I'll ping my magneto guru on your RPM drop problem and see what I come up with. Back in a flash. -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301306#301306 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tough choices From: "Bill Church" Wood requirements for cut-to-size sticks are fairly straightforward, and the lists referred to by Ryan are pretty accurate. Working with rough-sawn lumber is not so clear-cut (no pun intended), because the sizes are not standardized (hence the name). I bought my Sitka as 8/4 planks, and actual sizes varied from 2" to 2 1/4" thickness, and widths from 5" to 7". By making minimal passes through the thickness planer, on one board I was left with 2 1/8" finished, which yielded two 1" thicknesses. If you're buying 1" rough boards, you will likely only be left with 3/4" or maybe 7/8" after planing - which will not be thick enough to yield the 1" x 1" longerons. As a reference, so far I've bought two 20-foot 2" x 6ish" planks, and two of Aircraft Spruce's "bargain bags of spruce", which should be enough to build the structure (minus spars) once . Bill C. no tag line for me Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301308#301308 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:57 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: trailering the Piet I have trailered 41CC three times now, and can tell you that while it can be done, it is not something you want to do routinely. With help from one or two other guys,it will take you several hours to take off the wings and probably half again as long to put them back on due to the rerigging and inspections needed when you put them back on. I wouldn't plan on doing it unless it was necessary. Couple of pix of 41CC on trailers are here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/incident/PC310003.JPG http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P7090010.JPG In the first pic, the airplane is loaded onto a conventional 16 ft. trailer and you can see that the tips of the HS are no wider than the fenders of the trailer, and in fact are about the width of the bed of the trailer. In the second pic, I have the airplane loaded on a hay hauling flatbed that our EAA chapter owns and it's pretty much the same situation except this setup puts the tail surfaces much higher off the road and away from things that might hit the tail. I hauled the airplane about 180 miles with this setup and while it did ride nicely and get LOTS of stares, it worried me every time I would pass an 18 wheeler in either direction, coming or going, due to the buffetting. And I didn't even have to transport the wings, which would require wing cradles, padding, and straps. To you guys who are just beginning, you need to realize that there have been hundreds of these airplanes built over the span of three quarters of a century! They are sturdy, simple, reliable machines and you don't need to be too worried or baffled about building one... simple, basic skills and plenty of patience are all that is needed. When it comes to flying these airplanes, there is a motto that describes it very well: "The Piet is slow, but the sky is patient". I don't remember who said that, but it fits perfectly ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: newbie questions From: "Kringle" Thanks, I am making plans now to go Brodhead. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301333#301333 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: FAA inspections From: "Kringle" Thanks Oscar, I plan on joining my local EEA chapter. First meeting for me should be Thursday. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301334#301334 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: newbie questions From: "echobravo4" I've just started too John- there really is alot of great info on the list. Since i have actually started building i'm realizing that everybody is right about not overthinking it "Just start!" i will be getting to Oshkosh for Airventure the 22nd so i plan on heading down to Brodhead Sat. for my first visit! do not archive -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301340#301340 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:22 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65s are bulletproof! Well, I had the condition inspection done on N8031 today. There is a short list of squawks but the biggun' was that cylinder #4 had a compression of about 20lbs and you could just hear the air rushing out the exhaust valve. It made me kind of sick to hear it, knowing that was the sound of money slipping around the valve and out into the aether. Looking at the amount of carbon encrusting the piston head this sucker's been in a bad way for quite some time. Which, strangely, heartened me. If this thing can keep running in this state for this long, then these little engines are just about indestructible. Both compression rings were broken and both valves refused to seat. There was some scoring and pitting on the valve stems. Well, it's gonna cost a small fortune, but N8031 should climb like a homesick angel when all is said and done. Dan -- yocum@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Final inspection scheduled From: helspersew@aol.com Hello everybody, The final inspection for NX929DH is scheduled for Monday, 6/21/10. I have hired a local DAR that I know from EAA Chapter 241 (Dekalb, IL.) of which I am a member. I have submitted (scanned and emailed) all the necessary paperwork to him, and it is tentatively approved. So now I just have a fe w details left to attend to over this coming weekend. I need to mark my th rottle (open, closed), mark my elevator trim mechanism, paint some letteri ng on my fuel filler cap (type of fuel, minimum octane), and install my ai rcraft data plate. This completes the end of the construction phase. I can 't hardly believe it myself. I keep searching my brain for the next detail to attend to, and I keep coming up empty. It is a great feeling. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:31 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Final inspection scheduled Dan, That is great news. However, don't get creative with the "minimum octane" placard on the Model A. Supposedly they run on less than gasoline. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- From: helspersew@aol.com Sent: Jun 15, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Final inspection scheduled Hello everybody, The final inspection for NX929DH is scheduled for Monday, 6/21/10. I have hired a local DAR that I know from EAA Chapter 241 (Dekalb, IL.) of which I am a member. I have submitted (scanned and emailed) all the necessary paperwork to him, and it is tentatively approved. So now I just have a few details left to attend to over this coming weekend. I need to mark my throttle (open, closed), mark my elevator trim mechanism, paint some lettering on my fuel filler cap (type of fuel, minimum octane), and install my aircraft data plate. This completes the end of the construction phase. I can't hardly believe it myself. I keep searching my brain for the next detail to attend to, and I keep coming up empty. It is a great feeling. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:56 PM PST US From: "Steve Ruse" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65s are bulletproof! Dan,   Gibson aviation in El Reno, OK overhauled two cylinders for me last year.  Cost was about $800 for the pair.  Not bad, and they looked lik e new when I got them back.  They usually have ads in TAP, or Google will get you their number. These small Continentals are indestructible...mine was last overhauled in '67, 10 years before I was born, and I've added 400hrs to it in the last six years  Last year, it carried me to OshKosh and back with no compl aints.  Actually, those two cylinders are all I've actually done to th e engine, and that was just a pushrod tube seal replacement where I went ov erboard with "while I'm in there" syndrome. Steve Ruse Norman, OK -- Sent from my Palm Pre On Jun 15, 2010 7:41 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com> wrote: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Dan Yocum <yocum137@gmail.com&g t; Well, I had the condition inspection done on N8031 today. There is a short list of squawks but the biggun' was that cylinder #4 had a compression of about 20lbs and you could just hear the air rushing out the exhaust valve. It made me kind of sick to hear it, knowing that was the sound of money slipping around the valve and out into the aether. Looking at the amount of carbon encrusting the piston head this sucker's been in a bad way for quite some time. Which, strangely, heartened me. If this thing can keep running in this state for this long, then these little engines are just about indestructible. Both compression rings were broken and both valves refused to seat. There was some scoring and pitting on the valve stems. Well, it's gonna cost a small fortune, but N8031 should climb like a homesick angel when all is said and done. Dan -- yocum@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:26 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Final inspection scheduled It is indeed a great feeling to get all the paperwork done, but just wait till you fly it the first time! Ben Charvet first flight 2/19/2010 On 6/15/2010 8:24 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Hello everybody, > The final inspection for NX929DH is scheduled for Monday, 6/21/10. I > have hired a local DAR that I know from EAA Chapter 241 (Dekalb, IL.) > of which I am a member. I have submitted (scanned and emailed) all > the necessary paperwork to him, and it is tentatively approved. So now > I just have a few details left to attend to over this coming weekend. > I need to mark my throttle (open, closed), mark my elevator trim > mechanism, paint some lettering on my fuel filler cap (type of fuel, > minimum octane), and install my aircraft data plate. This completes > the end of the construction phase. I can't hardly believe it myself. I > keep searching my brain for the next detail to attend to, and I keep > coming up empty. It is a great feeling. > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:02 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65s are bulletproof! I agree with you totally. I was all ready for my FAA airworthiness inspection last Dec, and did a compression check before I signed off the engine logbook. Had one cylinder with 30 PSI and it was leaking around the rings. Pulled the cylinder and the rings and piston were totally worn out, but better yet you could wobble the small end of the connecting rod about 3/16 inch fore and aft. It had over 0.025 clearance, yet I still had 35 PSI oil pressure and it would still pull 2300 rpm static. I considered the bad compression to be a blessing in disguise. I could actually feel that I had a soft cylinder when pulling the engine through to prime it. Did you notice that too? Ben Charvet MIms, Fl On 6/15/2010 8:25 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Well, I had the condition inspection done on N8031 today. There is a > short list of squawks but the biggun' was that cylinder #4 had a > compression of about 20lbs and you could just hear the air rushing out > the exhaust valve. It made me kind of sick to hear it, knowing that > was the sound of money slipping around the valve and out into the aether. > > Looking at the amount of carbon encrusting the piston head this > sucker's been in a bad way for quite some time. Which, strangely, > heartened me. If this thing can keep running in this state for this > long, then these little engines are just about indestructible. > > Both compression rings were broken and both valves refused to seat. > There was some scoring and pitting on the valve stems. > > Well, it's gonna cost a small fortune, but N8031 should climb like a > homesick angel when all is said and done. > > Dan > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:42 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: plug wire test ? Mike!! for God's sake don't air your dirty laundry on this site!, Next thing you know some kook that has a corvair or suburu, or even a ford on his airplane will be saying, "man those continentals are unpredictible, and all they have is mag problems". Just yanking your chain, It is something simple, as most little engine issues are. Hope you get her figured out before saturday, I have this mosquito problem you might be able to help me with, wink, wink. Shad ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:48 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plug wire test ? Mike, I just had an idea, try taking your leads off the suspected plugs one at a time and do a mag test on the left mag, if the wire is real bad you might not get more than your 125 rpm drop with the bad wire disconnected from the plug. When you disconnect the good wires she might just flat out quit, (only 2 cyls will be firing). You might need to zip tie etc the plug wire away from the engine a bit though. If none of this helps I know a corvair guy. Shad ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:58 PM PST US From: Ryan Mueller Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65s are bulletproof! Dan, I don't know what you are looking at for a timeline in getting it put back together, but if you are trying for Brodhead you may want to call up Poplar Grove Airmotive and see what they have in stock for cylinders. If you weren't overly concerned with getting that exact same cylinder back they may have an exchange cylinder done and sitting on the shelf waiting to go. Sorry to hear the bad news. I hope the repairs go smoothly, Ryan On Jun 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, "Steve Ruse" wrote: > Dan, > > Gibson aviation in El Reno, OK overhauled two cylinders for me last year. Cost was about $800 for the pair. Not bad, and they looked like new when I got them back. They usually have ads in TAP, or Google will get you their number. > > These small Continentals are indestructible...mine was last overhauled in '67, 10 years before I was born, and I've added 400hrs to it in the last six years Last year, it carried me to OshKosh and back with no complaints. Actually, those two cylinders are all I've actually done to the engine, and that was just a pushrod tube seal replacement where I went overboard with "while I'm in there" syndrome. > > Steve Ruse > Norman, OK > > > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > On Jun 15, 2010 7:41 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > > Well, I had the condition inspection done on N8031 today. There is a > short list of squawks but the biggun' was that cylinder #4 had a > compression of about 20lbs and you could just hear the air rushing out > the exhaust valve. It made me kind of sick to hear it, knowing that > was the sound of money slipping around the valve and out into the > aether. > > Looking at the amount of carbon encrusting the piston head this > sucker's been in a bad way for quite some time. Which, strangely, > heartened me. If this thing can keep running in this state for this > long, then these little engines are just about indestructible. > > Both compression rings were broken and both valves refused to seat. > There was some scoring and pitting on the valve stems. > > Well, it's gonna cost a small fortune, but N8031 should climb like a > homesick angel when all is said and done. > > Dan > > -- > yocum@gmail.com > ============ ============ ============ ============ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65s are bulletproof! 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