---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/17/10: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:38 AM - re, plug wire test (John Theron) 2. 04:53 AM - Re: Question for the West Coast Piet Infidels (Ben Charvet) 3. 04:59 AM - Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... (Dan Yocum) 4. 04:59 AM - Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... (Ben Charvet) 5. 05:29 AM - Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... (Jim Ash) 6. 05:47 AM - Question for the West Coast Piet Infidels (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 07:38 AM - Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... (Steve Ruse) 8. 10:38 AM - Re: Question for the West Coast Piet Infidels (Catdesigns) 9. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... (Ray Krause) 10. 12:12 PM - Re: Tough choices (Kringle) 11. 12:24 PM - Great trip to Oklahoma (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 12. 01:04 PM - Lower wing strut attachment (Doug Dever) 13. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Tough choices (Dan Yocum) 14. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Tough choices (Jeff Boatright) 15. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: Tough choices (Ryan Mueller) 16. 03:14 PM - Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools (John Theron) 17. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Tough choices (Jeff Boatright) 18. 04:29 PM - Lower wing strut attachment (helspersew@aol.com) 19. 04:33 PM - Lower wing strut attachment (helspersew@aol.com) 20. 06:03 PM - Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools (coxwelljon) 21. 06:13 PM - Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools (flea) 22. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools (Jack Phillips) 23. 06:45 PM - Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools (K5YAC) 24. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools (Clif Dawson) 25. 06:58 PM - Re: Great trip to Oklahoma (K5YAC) 26. 07:12 PM - Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... (ldmill) 27. 07:24 PM - Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools (Jerry Dotson) 28. 07:25 PM - Re: Lower wing strut attachment (Doug Dever) 29. 08:04 PM - Re: Lower wing strut attachment (skellytown flyer) 30. 08:06 PM - Re: Great trip to Oklahoma (K5YAC) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:38:03 AM PST US From: John Theron Subject: Pietenpol-List: re, plug wire test Mike Simplest way to verify any spark plug wire is to continuity test them with an Ohms meter. Just connect to each end and take a reading, copper core has no resistance so should read zero Ohms, shielded wires generally read 5k per foot of lead. Regards John (from England) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question for the West Coast Piet Infidels From: Ben Charvet I'll be there! I'm bringing my wife this time and she made all the reservations, so I will be staying in nicer accomodations than last time. We are flying commercial, and should be in the area Thursday night. I sure hope I can find a way to keep the wife happy and occupied. Maybe I can get Pieti Lowell to take her up. Maybe he can show her an easier way to get in the front seat (I don't have a door in mine) She has been up in my Piet 5 or 6 times, and really enjoys it. I'll have to print up some pictures of m y airplane to bring along, as I'm not brave enough to fly it up from Florida yet. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > Gentlemen, > > (and I use that term with reservations) You seem like a fun group of guy s > who like to needle each other and encourage each other=92s building > efforts so I was wondering if we might get to meet any of you at Brodhead > in a few weeks ? > > Mike C. > > do not archive > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:05 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... "Ended in the grass"?!?? You're supposed to start in the grass (and end, too). Next your going to tell us you've got a radio installed in that antique homebuilt aircraft. It's a humbling experience. Glad it turned out for the best and nothing was damaged (other than pride). Dan -- yocum@gmail.com > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... From: Ben Charvet I'll bet you don't take much ribbing by chapter members that actually fly taildraggers. I've had a few exciting moments myself in my old Baby Ace. Remember the other famous saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" (or smarter). Keep it in the grass and off the pavement until you get real comfortable with it. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl 3 groundloops behind me (no damage either) On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:13 PM, ldmill wrote: > > The old saying - "those that have, and those that are going to..." Yes, you > know what I'm talking about (please don't make me utter the blasphemous > words aloud), I successfully accomplished my first with the GN-1 tonight. > Unfortunately, 3/4 of the EAA chapter were out flying also - and not the > quiet 3/4 either. There was much discussion/threats afterwords about > painting a circle on the side of the nose. At least they helped cleaning the > grass out of the wheelpants... > > No damage, didn't hit anything, wing didn't dip or touch ground, tires > didn't skid or slide, only did a nice easy 90 degree attention catching > turn, and ended up in the grass. > > So now, all I can say is "been there - done that". NOT to be repeated > again... That much luck only happens once. > > What a gorgeous night to fly though! > Lorin > > -------- > Lorin Miller > Waiex N81YX > GN-1 N30PP > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301500#301500 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:00 AM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... This is truly the perfect learning experience. Nobody got hurt, nothing got busted, and you got rattled enough you'll remember this event for what it was. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Jim >Sent: Jun 16, 2010 11:33 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... > > >Congratulations Lorin, >You have just had a learning opportunity successfully. >Jim B. > >Jim Boyer >Santa Rosa, CA >Pietenpol on wheels >Tail surfaces done >Wing ribs done >Corvair engine > > >On Jun 16, 2010, ldmill wrote: > > >The old saying - "those that have, and those that are going to..." Yes, you know what I'm talking about (please don't make me utter the blasphemous words aloud), I successfully accomplished my first with the GN-1 tonight. Unfortunately, 3/4 of the EAA chapter were out flying also - and not the quiet 3/4 either. There was much discussion/threats afterwords about painting a circle on the side of the nose. At least they helped cleaning the grass out of the wheelpants... > >No damage, didn't hit anything, wing didn't dip or touch ground, tires didn't skid or slide, only did a nice easy 90 degree attention catching turn, and ended up in the grass. > >So now, all I can say is "been there - done that". NOT to be repeated again... That much luck only happens once. > >What a gorgeous night to fly though! >Lorin > >-------- >Lorin Miller >Waiex N81YX >GN-1 N30PP > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301500#301500 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:10 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for the West Coast Piet Infidels I think I'll go as Jim Markle this year. My hangar mate moved out with his Zenith and all his tools and I need to re-stock with new tools ;o) But nahh.... Brodhead is not happening this year for me (again), although I did pull all my charts and route planning stuff out the other night and looked at it very longingly. My wife knows what it's all about now, and she just leaves the room when the big VFR planning map, pencil, and straightedge come out onto the kitchen table. I have slightly adjusted the route and one or two stops based on invitations to stay overnight or stop for fuel, including new friends in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I have enough invitations and friends around the country now that I could probably fly cross-country all year long and never have to pay for a motel or a meal! This is what Pietenpol Air Camping is all about ;o) Oscar "Light Fingers" Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:47 AM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... Nothing got broke and there were witnesses? I'd have claimed it was intentional as a demonstration for the passenger, tout your aerial prowess and have to leave suddenly for a prior appointment. Steve Ruse Norman, OK do not archive Quoting Jim Ash : > > This is truly the perfect learning experience. Nobody got hurt, > nothing got busted, and you got rattled enough you'll remember this > event for what it was. > > Jim Ash > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim >> Sent: Jun 16, 2010 11:33 PM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club >> tonight... >> >> >> Congratulations Lorin, >> You have just had a learning opportunity successfully. >> Jim B. >> >> Jim Boyer >> Santa Rosa, CA >> Pietenpol on wheels >> Tail surfaces done >> Wing ribs done >> Corvair engine >> >> >> On Jun 16, 2010, ldmill wrote: >> >> >> The old saying - "those that have, and those that are going to..." >> Yes, you know what I'm talking about (please don't make me utter >> the blasphemous words aloud), I successfully accomplished my first >> with the GN-1 tonight. Unfortunately, 3/4 of the EAA chapter were >> out flying also - and not the quiet 3/4 either. There was much >> discussion/threats afterwords about painting a circle on the side >> of the nose. At least they helped cleaning the grass out of the >> wheelpants... >> >> No damage, didn't hit anything, wing didn't dip or touch ground, >> tires didn't skid or slide, only did a nice easy 90 degree >> attention catching turn, and ended up in the grass. >> >> So now, all I can say is "been there - done that". NOT to be >> repeated again... That much luck only happens once. >> >> What a gorgeous night to fly though! >> Lorin >> >> -------- >> Lorin Miller >> Waiex N81YX >> GN-1 N30PP >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301500#301500 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question for the West Coast Piet Infidels From: "Catdesigns" I cant attend this year because I am afraid that with the huge budget deficit in California I might have to pay a large reintegration fee to get back into California. Fortunately, this will work in my favor as I need to use this time to build because Gary Boothe seems to have committed the California group to flying our Pietenpols to Brodhead in 2011 or 12, I cant remember the exact date. Given the current state of completion of the California Pietenpols that I know of, it looks like Mike Groah and his dad Vic will be the only ones who will easily make it. Jim Boyer is cheating by getting his wonderful wife to help him so he might make the deadline too. The rest of us have a lot of work to do. For instance I have built a whole wing panel and Gary hasnt even completed another wing rib. Given his lack of progress on the wing ribs, Im guessing he is secretly building a clipped wing Pietenpol. Perhaps it will be something like a Monocupe but with a crank snapping Corvair up front. How else can you explain his needing only 18 wing ribs? Speaking of Corvairs, it seems that I am the only one of the bunch using a real engine (A-75) so even if they do happen to get their planes finished they will only get halfway there before something snaps. I will probably be the only one to make it all the way. So Mike to answer your REAL question, Yes it looks safe for you to attend Brodhead this year as the riffraff from the west coast will not be there in mass. -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301574#301574 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:31 AM PST US From: "Ray Krause" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... You are making great progress! The fun part is about to begin. Ray Krause ----- Original Message ----- From: "ldmill" Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... > > Hi Ray! Nice to hear from you. The Waiex is pristine still. Fortunately it > hasn't had an incident yet, otherwise my shop would be a horrendous > mess... > > Just got panel back from powder coating and put it together. Bundling > wiring right now - then cockpit is complete and off to cowling/windshield > and canopy. > > -------- > Lorin Miller > Waiex N81YX > GN-1 N30PP > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301510#301510 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tough choices From: "Kringle" Okay, just got my plans and was anxious to start building the ribs. I "archived" ribs and found that there has been much discussion on 612, 613.5 and the original. If I told you I was going to go the ww corvair route what is the general thoughts of which rib to build? Decisions, decisions! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301587#301587 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:06 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Great trip to Oklahoma I was on the road once again and in advance of the trip was able to set up arrangements with the inimitable Markle and Mark Chunard. Had a fine time at Markle's with Pizza and Beer and lies, then had a chance to visit Mark. He's doing some fine work in the Hanger, great set of wings done on the bench high quality stuff and Brauts and Beer at his house doing a fine job in the hospitality department too. I had a great time visiting with friends ad seeing Marks progress and Markle's dust collector, sorry to say not much progress unless you count the dust build up. Always great to see them, hang out, tease and lie some in the great state of Oklahoma. I got serious money that says Mark will in for his annual before Markle sees air, no matter its not about the speed that one builds but more about how badly one can bust the horns. I think got that maneuver pretty well perfected. In my own estimation a good time was had by all! Thanks guys I really enjoyed the visit I would recommend a stop by in OK to anyone to visit these guys good beer, good conversation and a great time. John Do not Archive.... is Markle listening? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:23 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower wing strut attachment I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself as I'm still building ribs. for those that have not used steel struts how have you done the lower lift str ut attachment so as to have the ability to ajust the length. Carlson airc raft has some streamlined alum strut material very reasonable. But=2C you cant weld a fork and barrel assy into them=2C of course. And the FAA PMA f ork and barrel sets are hideously priced. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:24 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tough choices John, As you can see from the archives, there's a lot of opinion here. Pieti Lowell swears by the Riblett designs. A lot of people here are building them recently. Some people have done airfoil analysis on them and they're a bit better when it comes to climb. Also, they're taller so you can get a bigger fuel tank in the center section and they *look* like FC-10 ribs with the undercamber so, that's why I'm building Riblett 612 ribs. Pieti gave a talk on the Riblett 612 ribs at last years Pietenpol reunion. Jeff Boatright videoed the talk and posted it in 10 minute segments on youtube. They are worth the time to view. Here's the first one: http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffboatright#p/u/21/unvGPeYrc3o If you're interested there are a few files in the airfoils yahoo group files section that might be of interest to you, too: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/airfoil/files/ Of course, you can forgo all the hand-wringing and indecision and just start building FC-10 ribs and you'll be perfectly happy with the results. Cheers, Dan On 06/17/2010 02:11 PM, Kringle wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kringle" > > Okay, just got my plans and was anxious to start building the ribs. I "archived" ribs and found that there has been much discussion on 612, 613.5 and the original. If I told you I was going to go the ww corvair route what is the general thoughts of which rib to build? Decisions, decisions! -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:02 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tough choices Sorry again about the shaky camera. Mosquitos and flies were involved... > >John, > >As you can see from the archives, there's a lot of opinion here. >Pieti Lowell swears by the Riblett designs. A lot of people here >are building them recently. Some people have done airfoil analysis >on them and they're a bit better when it comes to climb. Also, >they're taller so you can get a bigger fuel tank in the center >section and they *look* like FC-10 ribs with the undercamber so, >that's why I'm building Riblett 612 ribs. > >Pieti gave a talk on the Riblett 612 ribs at last years Pietenpol >reunion. Jeff Boatright videoed the talk and posted it in 10 minute >segments on youtube. They are worth the time to view. Here's the >first one: >http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffboatright#p/u/21/unvGPeYrc3o > >If you're interested there are a few files in the airfoils yahoo >group files section that might be of interest to you, too: > >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/airfoil/files/ > >Of course, you can forgo all the hand-wringing and indecision and >just start building FC-10 ribs and you'll be perfectly happy with >the results. > >Cheers, >Dan -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tough choices From: Ryan Mueller Ah, those Wisconsin mosquitos...enough to make a Southern man go shaky in the knees! :) Ryan do not archive On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote: > > Sorry again about the shaky camera. Mosquitos and flies were involved... > > >> >> John, >> >> As you can see from the archives, there's a lot of opinion here. Pieti >> Lowell swears by the Riblett designs. A lot of people here are building >> them recently. Some people have done airfoil analysis on them and they're a >> bit better when it comes to climb. Also, they're taller so you can get a >> bigger fuel tank in the center section and they *look* like FC-10 ribs with >> the undercamber so, that's why I'm building Riblett 612 ribs. >> >> Pieti gave a talk on the Riblett 612 ribs at last years Pietenpol reunion. >> Jeff Boatright videoed the talk and posted it in 10 minute segments on >> youtube. They are worth the time to view. Here's the first one: >> http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffboatright#p/u/21/unvGPeYrc3o >> >> If you're interested there are a few files in the airfoils yahoo group >> files section that might be of interest to you, too: >> >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/airfoil/files/ >> >> Of course, you can forgo all the hand-wringing and indecision and just >> start building FC-10 ribs and you'll be perfectly happy with the results. >> >> Cheers, >> Dan >> > > > -- > > Jeff Boatright > "Now let's think about this..." > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:57 PM PST US From: John Theron Subject: Pietenpol-List: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools Have been modifying a wooden venetian blind to fit a window opening today. It made me think of the similarities to rib making and rib stitching. 1. Repetitive cutting of thin wood 2. Lacing the slats (stitching) 3. Personal qualities needed (patience/perseverance) 4. Fine cutting tools >From this I have some questions relating to aircraft building: 1. Which is the more important quality, patience or perseverance (I have more of the latter so swear often) 2. Is a hand saw better than power saws (band or circular) 3. How do you stop splintering in thin wood 4. Does splintering matter if slight What are your opinions? John T ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:12 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tough choices It was all OK until one of them tried to wrestle me for the camera. He won. >Ah, those Wisconsin mosquitos...enough to make a Southern man go >shaky in the knees! :) > >Ryan > >do not archive > >On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jeff Boatright ><jboatri@emory.edu> wrote: > ><jboatri@emory.edu> > >Sorry again about the shaky camera. Mosquitos and flies were involved... > > -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:56 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower wing strut attachment From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Doug, Wa-la (see attached photos). I used an aluminum insert 7075 alloy, threade d to accept a J-3 fork (from Wag Aero $$$$$). Secure with two 1/4" bolts. I am sure you could find a lower priced fork somewhere. Disclaimer: Haven't flown behind it yet, but Larry Williams has something very similar and is doing just fine. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Dever Sent: Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:55 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower wing strut attachment I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself as I'm still building ribs. fo r those that have not used steel struts how have you done the lower lift strut attachment so as to have the ability to ajust the length. Carlson aircraft has some streamlined alum strut material very reasonable. But, you cant weld a fork and barrel assy into them, of course. And the FAA PMA fork and barrel sets are hideously priced. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbo x. Learn more. ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower wing strut attachment From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Doug, Wa-la (see attached photos). I used an aluminum insert 7075 alloy, threade d to accept a J-3 fork (from Wag Aero $$$$$). Secure with two 1/4" bolts. I am sure you could find a lower priced fork somewhere. Disclaimer: Haven't flown behind it yet, but Larry Williams has something very similar and is doing just fine. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Dever Sent: Thu, Jun 17, 2010 2:55 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower wing strut attachment I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself as I'm still building ribs. fo r those that have not used steel struts how have you done the lower lift strut attachment so as to have the ability to ajust the length. Carlson aircraft has some streamlined alum strut material very reasonable. But, you cant weld a fork and barrel assy into them, of course. And the FAA PMA fork and barrel sets are hideously priced. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbo x. Learn more. ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:58 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools From: "coxwelljon" >From this I have some questions relating to aircraft building: 1. Which is the more important quality, patience or perseverance (I have more of the latter so swear often) 2. Is a hand saw better than power saws (band or circular) 3. How do you stop splintering in thin wood 4. Does splintering matter if slight What are your opinions? John, My opinion is: 1- You need all three. My mother used to say to me, "patience is a wonderful virtue." when I was ready to go off half cocked. She was right and patience leads to perseverance which leads to quality. I think understanding the difference between "good" , "excellent", and "perfect" in quality is also important. Good is what I shoot for and excellent is what I get when everything is going right. For me reaching for perfection only add to my frustration and sometimes results in excellent being downgraded to good. 2- I like a good sharp, small hand saw, but my saw of choice is a power band saw with a good blade and an accurate fence. If you are cutting solid stock like cap strips or longerons get a "Woodslicer" resaw blade (band saw) from http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodslicer-resaw-bandsaw-blades.aspx. They are expensive but if you set them up as directed you will be very pleased. Almost no sanding needed as they cut so smooth and accurate. I use it for light plywood as well. 3- Splintering (in solid stock) will be solved by the above. 4- Slight splintering maters if you are shooting for "perfection"! If you are using wood I doubt you can avoid it. Deep splintering may reduce strength. My $0.02 Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301622#301622 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools From: "flea" Splintering can be minimized by sandwiching the piece between two pieces of scrap and cutting through all three at the same time. Think of a piece of plywood, is it possible to splinter the inner ply and not the outer? Make your work piece the "inner ply" and thumb your nose at the splintered scrap on the "outer plies." A piece of masking tape along the cut line can also be used, it doesn't work as well but can be easier to do depending on the saw used etc. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301624#301624 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:34 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools Or just use Sitka Spruce and there will be no splintering, unless you are using the utlimate handtool (a hatchet). Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flea Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 9:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools Splintering can be minimized by sandwiching the piece between two pieces of scrap and cutting through all three at the same time. Think of a piece of plywood, is it possible to splinter the inner ply and not the outer? Make your work piece the "inner ply" and thumb your nose at the splintered scrap on the "outer plies." A piece of masking tape along the cut line can also be used, it doesn't work as well but can be easier to do depending on the saw used etc. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301624#301624 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools From: "K5YAC" I can splinter Sitka. LOL! Higher tooth count and feed it slow. -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301629#301629 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:02 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools "Striving for excellence motivates you; striving for perfection is demoralizing." ~ Harriet Braiker Clif :-) > My opinion is: Good is what I shoot for and excellent is what I get when everything is going right. For me reaching for perfection only add to my frustration and sometimes results in excellent being downgraded to good. coxwelljon ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Great trip to Oklahoma From: "K5YAC" Is Markle listening? You know he is. Ha ha! I had a great time seeing you, Jim and Coy too. Tyler had a great time at Markle's driving that 1949 Ford 8N around... and playing with his chickens and stuff too. We are looking forward to seeing the Markle clan in a couple of weeks for the 4th of July extravaganza. Ought to be fun. Hey, no pressure on the build (how much "serious money" are we talking about John?)... I won't say that the wings were easy, but it was basically just a bunch of the same steps over and over and over and, well, you get the point... lots of little pieces, just a matter of mixing enough glue. I am studying the center section now... not as easy as it looks at first glance. Definitely an order to follow, not to mention that I hope to duplicate Mike Cuy's design and that take a little more thought. Don't worry Jim, I've got a long way to go, but I still look forward to joining up on your wing some morning as the sun breaks over the trees and we point the props towards a stack of pancakes. Perhaps if you clean that shop a little you could find your airplane. Yeah, I know, that was bad... had to do it. Hey, the important thing is that you found a cooler full of beer. John (or anyone else)... you give a holler any time you are in this neck of the woods and we'll ice the beer and fire up the coals. I sure did enjoy your visit... kind of a Brodhead pre-game... we are ready for July! -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301632#301632 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... From: "ldmill" yea right... I've been married waaaay too long to try and bs my way out of situations like that. I learned about that when trying to justify the 1972 Opel GT she found stashed in the shed where the lawn mowers were... thought I was safe on that one cause she refused to mow the yard... -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301635#301635 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Perseverance.Patience.Cutting Tools From: "Jerry Dotson" I sometimes use a hobby knife to score a mark instead of a pencil. That will take care of splintering on one side of the sawblade. Back when building homes those veneer doors had to be cut off an inch or so to clear the carpet....that is the way I did it. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301636#301636 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:11 PM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lower wing strut attachment Dan=2C Yours is one of the options I thought of. Questioned the strength of tappi ng the Alum bar. Probably way more than we need though. In looking at the West Coast Piet site I've noticed several that have no adjustment. If any have not used a fork and have a fixed=2C bolted attachment=2C please chime is as to how you did it so as not to need any method of adjusting. Those forks are big bucks. But as I see it you might only need the rear strut to adjust. That would cut the cost in half. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower wing strut attachment From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Doug=2C Wa-la (see attached photos). I used an aluminum insert 7075 alloy=2C thread ed to accept a J-3 fork (from Wag Aero $$$$$). Secure with two 1/4" bolts. I am sure you could find a lower priced fork somewhere. Disclaimer: Haven't flown behind it yet=2C but Larry Williams has something very similar and is doing just fine. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove=2C IL. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Dever Sent: Thu=2C Jun 17=2C 2010 2:55 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower wing strut attachment I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself as I'm still building ribs. for those that have not used steel struts how have you done the lower lift str ut attachment so as to have the ability to ajust the length. Carlson airc raft has some streamlined alum strut material very reasonable. But=2C you cant weld a fork and barrel assy into them=2C of course. And the FAA PMA f ork and barrel sets are hideously priced. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb ox. Learn more. t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lower wing strut attachment From: "skellytown flyer" Doug mine is the same except it has steel insert bars. no doubt some machine shop made them up but the are very strong and very heavy.the only place I thought there might be a weak point is that there are only 2 1/4" through bolts in the aluminum strut. for my peace of mind I did what was done on the same setup on a Rans S-12 I used to have. added a 4130 strap about 5/8" wide and I think .065 thick on top and bottom- picked up the 2 bolts and far enough along the strut tube to install 3 3/16" stainless steel pop rivets. no doubt I'll be told and was that this is over kill and not needed. but it gave me a warm fuzzy feeling since the aluminum is probably a fair amount weaker than steel strut tube and the plane is definitely quite a bit heavier than the Rans and I am pretty sure as many as they sold they did some kind of analysis.if I hadn't gotten the plane with the struts included I would have done some searching for someone that had changed out their Piper struts for new sealed struts to eliminate the repetitive inspections required. and cut the ends off them and fabricate once I determined they were sound. there are hundreds of Shortwing Pipers out there with new struts. I had contacted a friend that was in the Shortwing Piper group and there were several guys willing to sell their old struts but that was a couple years ago and I have lost the names. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301641#301641 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Great trip to Oklahoma From: "K5YAC" I forgot... I have evidence! -------- Mark Chouinard Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301642#301642 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/markles_ride_588.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.