---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/20/10: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:28 AM - Re: CG calculations on a GN-1. (skellytown flyer) 2. 05:34 AM - Dan's the man!! (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 05:55 AM - Re: Carb fix, and taxi testing! (Ben Charvet) 4. 08:25 AM - Carb fix, and taxi testing! (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 09:51 AM - CG calculations on a GN-1 (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 03:43 PM - More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report (helspersew@aol.com) 7. 04:36 PM - Re: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report (kevinpurtee) 8. 04:38 PM - Skipp, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering (shad bell) 9. 05:11 PM - Re: Skipp, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering (Jason Holmes) 10. 05:27 PM - Re: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report (Dan Yocum) 11. 05:47 PM - Re: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report (taildrags) 12. 08:47 PM - Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... (ldmill) 13. 08:53 PM - OT - Free First Flying Lessons - EAA's New Young Eagles Initiative (wayne@taildraggersinc.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CG calculations on a GN-1. From: "skellytown flyer" Jon I'd be glad to visit with you a little off list about some of the things I have run into on it.if you want to send me an e-mail at skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com I didn't see your address on this or would have e-mailed you back. Raymond do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301799#301799 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:39 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dan's the man!! Go Dan, go!! Douwe Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:10 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Carb fix, and taxi testing! You are definitely at the most exciting time of building. I did very little taxi testing. I raised the tail just one time before my first flight, just to make sure the airspeed indicator worked, then made the first flight a minute later. Good luck with the inspection. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl 35.9 hrs on Hobbs On 6/19/2010 11:24 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Today was a good day. First my wife and my #3 son and I flew over to > Cassville, WI, (in the Aeronca) to a pancake breakfast, and met my #2 > son/daughter-in-law, and grandson. It was pretty windy at altitude. > Going, we had a direct headwind, and our ground speed was an agonizing > 65-70 mph Then on the way home it was 140-145 mph. Wow! > Then when we got home, I was able to remove my model B carb and take > it across the taxiway to a very knowledgeable gent who dismantled, and > cleaned out the whole thing including all the jets. The carb bowl had > a LOT of rust in the bottom of the bowl. Also the jets were partially > clogged with the same gunk. Anyway, I re-installed it and ran the > engine. It performed beautifully and did not leak. Then, later in the > evening I was able to do some taxiing for the first time. I can > report that my steerable tail wheel set-up works very well, on hard > pavement and also in the grass. I need to adjust my band brakes a > little tighter, but they did work. But I need to install some > extension blocks on my brake pedals, cause I can not really reach them > with my toes very well when I am trying to also work the rudder bar. > That rudder bar is going to take some getting used to. Also, the ship > likes to rooooLLLLL. With those big wheels it moves effortlessly. > So I feel like I am ready for my inspection on Monday. Everything is > now complete, to the best of my ability. > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:13 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carb fix, and taxi testing! Dan; "good on ya" for getting to the magical point in your project where you transition from a builder to a pilot, and the airplane transitions from endless Wicks and Aircraft Spruce orders to a real, live flying machine. I have 6.00x6 tires on my split-axle landing gear with spring struts and conventional Cleveland disk brakes with Matco masters and toe actuation arranged Bill Rewey-style. I got used to the rudder bar very quickly and I have no trouble actuating or holding the brakes on 41CC but then again, with the smaller diameter tires it's easier to hold it from rolling than with the motorcycle-style ones. For taxiing, I would suggest starting out on a large, open parking apron or taxiway. It's easier to learn to judge your brakes and steering if there aren't bumps and if the rolling surface is even and smooth. You can get a good feel for ground handling and the effects of wind that way. However, for actuallanding and taking off, grass is king! I love it! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:58 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: CG calculations on a GN-1 Raymond asked: >When I brought it up a while back somebody posted that >the plans have a mistake in them for calculating weight >and balance. Can someone tell me what it is? I don't know what others may have found in the plans, but here are my comments on them. I'm looking at the Grega GN-1 weight and balance page dated 9-17-65, data for N4705G. In that information, I find a math error when calculating the forward and rearward CG extremes, in that the weights add up to 949 lbs. but are shown as 959 lbs., which would not be a big deal except that there is a very puzzling and unconventional way of stating the CG. Convention is that all moments are taken relative to the datum, which is the leading edge of the wing, but Grega says that the empty CG is relative to the main wheel weighing point, and then continues by saying that the empty CG relative to the datum is the empty CG relative to the main wheel weighing point plus the moment arm of the main wheels. Not sure I follow that. The main problem that I see with the calculation is that the empty CG is not correct. I get an empty CG of 19.05" using conventional calculation methods. This is quite tail-heavy, considering that my airplane's empty CG is 11.36" aft of datum. Using the empty CG that I get using the weights and moment arms that Grega listed for his airplane, running through the calcs for forward and rearward CG extremes on his calculation page, I get 23.83" aft of datum for the forward loading case and 23.34" aft of datum for the aft loading case (no, I don't have those backwards... the CG actually improves in his aft loading case). Both of those numbers are well outside of Grega's specified CG range of 18.1 to 20.7" aft of datum, and well outside of recognized ranges of 25 to 33% of wing chord or 15" to 20" aft of leading edge. Quite tail heavy. I compared a few numbers between my airplane and Grega's to see where the differences might be, even though my airplane has the wing cabanes shifted aft about 4" from vertical. The center of my main axles are 7" aft of wing LE while Grega's are 7.5"; oil is 24" forward while Grega's is 23"; fuel is 6" while Grega's is 1.5" forward; pilot position is identical at 23" aft; passenger is 21" aft in my airplane and 24" aft in Grega's; but the big difference is that the center of my tailwheel axle is 155.5" aft of wing LE while Grega's is more than a foot farther aft, at 169". With an empty loading on my tailwheel of only 20 lbs. compared to Grega's 52 lbs., the difference is quite telling. So... I'm not sure how Grega computes his aircraft's CG using a moment arm for the empty airplane of the "aerodynamic center of airfoil" instead of the aircraft's empty CG aft of datum, but that's how he comes up with an empty CG of 19.5", a forward loaded CG of 18.9" and a rearward loaded CG of 20.1". Perhaps those of you who fly GN-1s can shed some light on your actual balance numbers? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC... empty weight 624 lbs., no oil San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report From: helspersew@aol.com Hello all, Today I went back and re-safetied all the stuff on the carb that I had off yesterday. Got my cowling pieces all back into place. Had to mark my fron t throttle- open, closed. Glued on the obligatory leather patches to the LE of the horizontal stab where the cables rub. I have been looking forwa rd to that part for ten years. You really know you have built a Pietenpol Aircamper when you get to that part. You guys that have deviated from pla ns to avoid this....you are missing something...those have to be there oth erwise its really not a Piet. :O) After I was satisfied with all that, I took her out for more taxiing. Boy she really starts easy if you follow the procedure. 1/2 shot of prime, pu ll through mags off 5 blades, mags hot and it pops right off. Taxied for about 45 min, and when I got a little guts, gave her a little gun on the grass and raised the tail. I really had to hold myself back, she really wanted to FLY!!!. So tomorrow is the inspection. I will give a full report before the end of the day. Thanks for listening, Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report From: "kevinpurtee" Outstanding, Dan. Good luck. Looking forward to the update & seeing you at Brodhead. Kevin Purtee NX899KP do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301849#301849 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:47 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skipp, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering Skipp, Did you get the email with photos of the piet gathering? I was wondering if you could post them on the list, my computer is still not fixed, or I would do it myself. I would love to see any photos that any of you in attendance might have taken. Post them on the list or email me. Next week it is the big WACO fly-in at Wynkoop Airport in Mount Vernon. The last I heard, Brian Wynkoop said it was ok for the piets to fly in. Last year there was a waco only fly in rule, notam, or something. Shad ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:03 PM PST US From: "Jason Holmes" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Skipp, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering Shad, I got a few of you and Skip (Sorry I didn't get any of Ed's piet). Wish I could have stayed longer, I hate it when work gets in the way of a good time. I compressed these for e-mail. I have a few others as well so if you want the full size version or all of the ones I took, just let me know and I will send them to your e-mail address. Thanks for hosting, Jason Holmes -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skipp, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering Skipp, Did you get the email with photos of the piet gathering? I was wondering if you could post them on the list, my computer is still not fixed, or I would do it myself. I would love to see any photos that any of you in attendance might have taken. Post them on the list or email me. Next week it is the big WACO fly-in at Wynkoop Airport in Mount Vernon. The last I heard, Brian Wynkoop said it was ok for the piets to fly in. Last year there was a waco only fly in rule, notam, or something. Shad ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:57 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report That's fantastic news Dan! I hope Jim gives you the all clear and that the weather cooperates, tomorrow. Today would have been perfect with these 3 mph winds. Be careful! Dan -- yocum@gmail.com On Jun 20, 2010, at 5:41 PM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > > Today I went back and re-safetied all the stuff on the carb that I > had off yesterday. Got my cowling pieces all back into place. Had to > mark my front throttle- open, closed. Glued on the obligatory > leather patches to the LE of the horizontal stab where the cables > rub. I have been looking forward to that part for ten years. You > really know you have built a Pietenpol Aircamper when you get to > that part. You guys that have deviated from plans to avoid > this....you are missing something...those have to be there otherwise > its really not a Piet. :O) > > After I was satisfied with all that, I took her out for more > taxiing. Boy she really starts easy if you follow the procedure. 1/2 > shot of prime, pull through mags off 5 blades, mags hot and it pops > right off. Taxied for about 45 min, and when I got a little guts, > gave her a little gun on the grass and raised the tail. I really had > to hold myself back, she really wanted to FLY!!!. > > So tomorrow is the inspection. I will give a full report before the > end of the day. > > Thanks for listening, > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report From: "taildrags" Sounds like you're ready to take to the air. It won't be long now! PS, I added the obligatory leather patches to the leading edges of my horizontal stabilizer after I had been flying it quite some time. One day while driving to the airport I saw an old black shoe laying by the side of the road. I stopped to check it out and it was leather and had some sections that were still in very good condition so I picked it up and cut some nice patches out of it with my pinking shears and glued them to the leading edges with contact cement right where the cables had been touching. Worked great and looks very professional ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301857#301857 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... From: "ldmill" Okay, I spent almost 2 hours last evening doing nothing but full stop landings. Lesson learned for me - I work best doing wheel landings on concrete keeping a tad bit of throttle on till tires are on the ground. Once the tail drops to the ground - no rudder authority, only the tailwheel and brakes to keep her straight. Amazing, after more than a dozen full stop landings with nary a glitch, I went back to the hanger - most of the same story tellers were around - but it appeared that nobody was even watching... As I'm feeling this plane out, getting a better idea of performance. With the climb prop on, she gets to pattern altitude pretty quick. That being said - cruise at 2350 rpm gives me an indicated airspeed of 83-85 mph. WOT shows a little over 90 and 2550 rpm. I like this Continental A-75! Fresh overhall two years ago, 50 hours on it now, and compressions are testing at 78/80 across the board. -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301871#301871 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:26 PM PST US From: "wayne@taildraggersinc.com" Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT - Free First Flying Lessons - EAA's New Young Eagles Initiative Sorry for the off-topic post, but this topic has come up in the past, and I thought it was worth sharing some somewhat positive news. I hope nobody minds... -Wayne ________________________________________________ Free First Flying Lessons? AvWeb is reporting that EAA has announced a new program where Young Eagles can earn a first free flying lesson voucher. While this is great news, and program that I wholeheartedly support on the surface, I have to wonder where is all the buzz? I've read a lot of talk lately about the future of GA. Where are the new pilots? What are the obstacles? Why don't we have thousands of kids lining up to take flying lessons? What amazes me is that this new program has, so far, not caught anyone's attention. LET'S SPREAD THE WORD!!!! Here's the scoop from the EAA: "Last year, we were proud to offer all Young Eagles their own pilot logbook and free access to Sporty's Complete on line Pilot Training Course," said Young Eagles co-chairman Jeff Skiles. "More than 3,000 Young Eagles have already enrolled in the course and several have taken or soon will be ready to take their flight test and earn a pilot certificate. With the addition of the First Flight Lesson, we continue to build on the enthusiasm shown by these Young Eagles and help them continue their journey toward a certificate." Alright, ladies and germs. Get to the airport, spread the word. Let's get as many kids in this program as we can. EAA says they're working on a "Flight Plan" to get more young people involved in aviation. Let's take advantage of EAA's size and reputation, and really put this program into high gear! Go! Now! Do it!!! EAA Press Release (http://www.youngeagles.org/news/2010%20-%2006_14%20-%20EAA%20Announces%20Free%20Flight%20Lesson%20Program.asp) Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.